London Tsai on "The Portal", Ep.

What happened to the Mathematical and Scientific art movement after MC Escher? It went underground. In this episode of the Portal, Eric begins tracking down the leaders of this hidden movement; one that is smuggling higher level science into transcendent art forms. Eric had to coax one the movement’s foremost members, London Tsai, to come out of obscurity where he had been preserving his mathematical art in sarcophagi of unopened bubble wrap sitting for decades in various New York City studios. London is just the first of these New Escherians we’ll be profiling. These modern day Prometheans are stealing higher level mathematics from the professorial priesthood replacing the Seraphim and Cherubs of antiquity with topological paintings, protein sculptures, and light symphonies that speak to our hearts, minds and desires for transcendence. Video of this podcast was delayed due to focus issues at a remote location in Manhattan. It is released however to show a taste of Tsai's groundbreaking work.
Original Sponsors of the original Audio only podcast were:
Lamps Plus:: Lampsplus.com/PORTAL
Wine Access Wineaccess.com/PORTAL
Skillshare: Skillshare.com/Portal

[@Tombalino]

The camera is working fine, the blur is actually the simulation struggling to render the sheer amount of abstract mental processing occurring in that room. Can’t trick me...

[@nfevelo]

The thing that's great about Eric is he still feels the wonder of discovery that so many others loose in their 20's. I describe it as the poetry of things.

[@nfevelo]

@franz stockmann true!

[@ariadnepyanfar1048]

Dear Eric, (outside of mathematics) do not let ‘perfect’ be the enemy of ‘good’. I have been waiting for the visual version of this podcast and it did not disappoint. London Tsai is a formidable talent creating gorgeous things.

[@os1513]

Just finished watching this.And man!! Eric just keeps bringing the most fascinating and underated people .I think Eric and Lex Fridman are one of the best people to have entered the podcast space recently.

[@ronan8228]

Absolutely fantastic to see the uploads return, Eric. The blurriness is no major issue. Can't wait to see the glorious battle of micro-expressions between yourself and Garrett Lisi that based on the audio version, I'm sure offer a whole different layer to the discourse. On that note, I'd love to see more of these "operas in a foreign language", as you put it. I'm beginning to brush the surface of physics and economics thanks to the way you've been framing them, and you should absolutely continue to grill academics inside and outside of the gated community going forward. Full support from a 22 year old recent MARKETING graduate, who never knew physics and math could catch my eyes and ears.

[@WeDragonSlayers]

Episode #19 will make you feel so angry and so filled with awe for BRET his brother. He needs his recognition for the brilliant man he is and the credit he is due.

[@redghost289]

Reminder for anyone who doesn't already know: as Eric indicated at the beginning, this KZbin channel is not up to date with the podcast. "The Portal" is up to episode 20. Make sure to check out the audio version (on Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, etc.) if you're looking for more content. Be especially on the lookout for episode 19 with Bret.

I only listen on KZbin. He needs to upload them and just put a logo as the video if he doesn't have video.

[@DerekMoore82]

Yeah, I only use KZbin. If it's not on KZbin I'm never gonna hear it.

[@dundundata7603]

Is youtube not able to handle Hair Definition?

[@guycomments]

You know you guys can listen to Apple podcasts without owning an apple device right? Check for links on Eric's twitter

[@VeryLikeLeigh]

@@guycomments Thanks for saying that because I was wondering. I'm also not on twitter. So where else can I find the links?

[@leedufour]

Thanks London and Eric.

[@JD..........]

Saw Eric lecture live w Sam Harris in Milwaukee. Can’t express how much I appreciate your dialogues and its influence on my thinking and focus on different topics of life.

[@adrianfortmoviereviewsbook9821]

Eric, while a great deal of us are indeed here to admire your godly features, this is KZbin. Your viewers understand that tech stuff is often slow coming, especially early in a channel's life. Please dont let small snafus hold up the content (reference Pangburn) as we will enjoy regardless.

[@markcarey67]

Subscribe to the Portal on Apple podcasts (it's free) and you will be able to get the up to date podcasts (audio) as they drop - he just dropped episode 20 with Roger Penrose

[@thegoodthebadandtheugly579]

Ditto. Your content is not image, your content is intelligence, intellect, mental activity, narrative and storytelling.

[@gingerbill128]

@@markcarey67 oh roger penrose ! , he was fascinating on JRE , i cant wait to see that one. I have nothing to do with twitter or apple so will have to wait till its on youtube.

[@Taygetea]

@@gingerbill128 no need to go through those, there are plenty of podcast sites. here's one www.stitcher.com/podcast/the-portal-2

[@hufxD]

Anyone else feels like Grant Sanderson from 3Blue1Brown would be the perfect guest in this context?

[@thewholesomegrail6722]

Eric you are a gift to mankind

[@thewholesomegrail6722]

By the way, the videos not blurry, it's just focused on the art in the background, lol

[@cpfrgb]

I'm so glad to have you back! and what a inspiring way to open 2020! Thank you I really appreciate it!

[@beautanner8409]

Ah blurry's okay... it just feels a little old school. It's cool. (awesome topic too)

[@alexcatchpole]

What a great show ! Cant wait to "see" the chat with Bret... Thanks Eric.....🙏🙏🙏

[@omysack1]

I like that their faces are blurry and the focus is on the art in the background. I thought it was deliberate

[@metamentality9818]

Very glad you released this as is

[@jakubjodlowski6453]

Thank you for bringing us London Tsai 🙏

[@Life_Of_Mine_]

This video will torment me for the rest of my life. Just looking at that guy's eye while taking about his passion, in this case mathematics, will always give me that sense of regret for not finding what I love to do in this life.

[@gaulindidier5995]

You can still find it, don't give up my dude!

[@Life_Of_Mine_]

@@gaulindidier5995 I am on my way out. I am slowly killing myself. Sorry, I know people don't care but sometimes just getting it out even to a kind person like you who I will never meet or see gives me some sense of fake relief.

[@aleksromero4952]

@@Life_Of_Mine_ as am i

[@gaulindidier5995]

​@@Life_Of_Mine_ A connection with another person is always real, no matter how the connection is made. It took me a while, a long while to find myself and I did. I don't know you, but somehow, i get the intuition that you're going to turn things around.

[@nancyrollinson9995]

My God do I hear you. I'm 60 years old and not only did I not find my calling, I ache for creativity and I have none.

[@GinoTheSinner]

Digging the surreal vibes with the zoomed in blurry video.

[@AKARCHER]

Great talk! Dont worry about the visual quality. We can always look up his art. Great job for putting it out anyway. Sorry about the quality issue, I know how annoying that can be especially after filming something as important as this. Keep it up Eric!

[@chrisc7265]

I appreciate Eric's enthusiasm, but I don't think there is an undiscovered treasure to mine in mathematical art. London says it best, people who love math are going to be more interested in the math than the art that use the math as a starting point or inspiration. A 26 dimensional Joobly-Goober-Hoffstein Cube with Recumbrant Vibrations and Vector Bundles can be a starting point for a painting the same as a bowl of fruit can --- what makes it a good or bad painting is the artistic choices and technique that change that starting point into art. How cool an object is mathematically is mostly arbitrary to the work of art. Kind of reminds me of the "science guys" who are like, "look at this picture of a nebula, far more beautiful than any art created by man", and it's like, who framed the shot? Who chose the colors? Those are artistic choices. What exactly is telling you _scientifically_ that this nebula is more beautiful than a chimpanzee's dump? Science provided the technology to see the nebula. A nebula is something science guys often talk about. But appreciation of the nebula's beauty is artistic --- its connections to science are secondary. People talk up how aesthetically pleasing the Fibonacci sequence is --- yet mathematically, there are an infinite number of sequences. Some are aesthetically pleasing, some are not. A ratio of roughly 2/3 tends to work well in art. Is this _because_ the Fibonacci sequence is elegant mathematically? Is that elegance an aesthetic judgement or a mathematical one? For example, use product instead of sum: 0, 1, 0, 0, 0, 0... this is boring and clumsy. Is that a mathematical judgement or an aesthetic one?

[@n1mbusmusic606]

I've been waiting for next level shit like this for a long yime! Thank you Eric!!

[@Whitewater11]

So stoked to see a new episode of The Portal in my youtube feed today, blurred or not.

[@DrewAlexandros]

Omg yay! Thankyou for uploading to your youtube channel, Eric! Please continue to do so - i really want to watch the episode with Tyler Cowen.

[@joshbowe-artwork5489]

What a fascinating conversation. I found so much of this relatable to my own practices as an artist, not the least of which the publicity issues, and how that can affect an artistic career choice. Great to see you passion outweighed your need for recognition London, incremental integrity, which flows through your work, thank you both. Thank you Eric for bringing this artistic genius into my remit as an artist, I'll be keeping a much closer eye on London's work from now.......

[@korokshiding]

I was fascinated with Escher as a kid and although I didn't pursue maths, I did persue art and design, so this conversation fusing the two areas was highly enjoyable! Such passionate and interesting points of view.

[@PinkAmadeus]

What a beautiful exchange! The meeting of art and science can only be sublime.

[@davebryand1960]

13:10 I still come listen to these just waiting for the day where Eric says: "Good news! I just smoked DMT and OH HELL YES can these higher structures be seen directly!"

[@BRAUSA]

Dave Bryand hear hear! Would change his life

[@jamesharbaugh5732]

Point by point... it’s a wonderful life. Thank you for your work.

[@nicolebelanger4745]

What a mind opening episode. As an artist I understand the process and not necessarily the need to share. Bundles, all new to me and probably many others.

[@clv9056]

I absolutely LOVED this conversation. TY very much!

[@jasonjohns7397]

Thank you for including the video. You made the right decision.

[@albrtl]

45:44 It's not yet understood how profound this observation is. This is the right direction and the nuance will push boundaries in mental illness, particularly schizophrenia. I love watching various disciplines enable progress in otherwise adjacent areas. To me, that's The Portal's best offering.

[@bearpickle]

Fascinating ideas- I love EW and this pod.

[@mattpiper266]

WHENS the source code being released Eric . Also love ur podcast. Greatest thing ever

[@finchisneat]

Video isn't that blurry at all. Glad it was released.

[@GenX4ever]

There's so many people with channels about how to get stronger and bigger muscles. Eric's channel is how you get a stronger, smarter brain muscle just listening!

[@joanroth8594]

I love this, Eric. There are many pathways to finding the Creator, you have found 'Him' through mathematics and explained it so I can understand you...you've opened a portal for me...thank you. Now, to figure out what that Creator of the stunningly gorgeous universe of mathematics may want from you, beginning with a relationship with you and extending from there....to exactly what? Then, you have it all!

[@joemejia3959]

Hi Eric, just saw your talk with The Art of Charm. The bad breath problem: Ask what they ate last, mock the food itself for being the cause of bad breath, and not the person. BOOM!

[@laed3520]

Eric, the things that are most important in this Portal Episode...the Art and the Words are all very much in focus. Only you and London Tsai's images are blurry. So your vanity kept this episode from us? Hmmm intersting. Love the show. Trust the Universe and stop getting in the way.

[@kruse4548]

I used to have a reacurring dream as a kid where i was standing in an endless void and there would be a massive grey sphere coming towards me and there was nothing i could do to stop it, and finally when it reached me and was incredibly huge i would wake up in a panic. Its incredibly synchronistic to hear you had a similar dream London.

[@zasterheffor]

I admire Weinstein's overall tone in this interview. Western Mathematics does indeed require another Copernican Revolution - one that frees it from its mathogenicism and austere symbology. From a strictly logical perspective, it serves to benefit from an artistic Mathmatic movement. Maxwell, moreover, consults the idea of the 'trappings' of mathematical symbology briefly in his studies/letters on Faraday, specifically Faraday's primarily visualized mathematical interpretations of electromagnetism.

[@tukity]

i can see the excitement in both of their eyes. it makes me want to explore this "world" they speak of

[@gg-pv3ie]

I showed my parents who are both doctors your latest episode with Bret (40 mins in) and they thought his story was super interesting and surprising. Hopefully theyll tell their colleagues about it too

[@TheMonikerfree]

Yes, recording quality is not an issue, it serves actually. It is a 4th wall fracture. All is well Eric.

[@thewholesomegrail6722]

Right? It's kind of poetic and serves the concept of focusing art and the ideas

[@landoishisname]

With all this mathematics love at the start of the podcast you should see if you can get Terence Tao on the show

[@earthspeakpodcast]

@44:28 first time I've heard someone talk about an experience i use to have as a child where I felt infinitely small, like an atom in the presence of something immense, beyond average human perception, but I saw those moments with awe and not nightmarish in the way London is describing his dreams.

[@danielbrooks7764]

Calling these objects "Angels" just gave me a new appreciation for "Neon Genesis Evangelion." Or maybe HP Lovecraft.

[@monkeytrousers6180]

This is awesome,much more interesting than culture war ping pong going nowhere.

[@jjuniper274]

I'll never look at math the same way.

[@AB-kq9xm]

The quality is good enough. Please release the others. Thanks :)

[@kutark]

I was expecting much worse on the blurriness... Honestly it feels like watching a high Rees interview from the early 2000s. Definitely not bad, and more than sharp enough to see emotions in the face, etc.

[@valoriel4464]

Looking forward to this. Was so lucky to see M C Eschers art on display several years ago in Knoxville. TN. What a trip! Fascinating. Thx for the vid.

[@samario_torres]

Great episode. Really waiting for #15 to be posted on KZbin. I’ve listened to it 5 times. More physicists and mathematicians! Also Eric you should get Naval Ravikant on here.

[@toddboothbee1361]

Exciting, beautiful. Life gets more interesting, strange. This is painful because I'll probably have to die someday.

[@gidifihrer3966]

wow, just an amazing episode. I think in this episode is the correct description of angels in the Maimonidean tradition.

[@Alberiana]

This was epic! Didn’t know stuff like this existed.

[@Konjiii1]

Get Douglas Hofstadter on :)

[@93thelema777]

Those nightmares he described , I used to have them . They're probably my earliest memories . They would happen quite often when I slept in my cribb . Then rarely after I moved to a bed , then eventually they disappeared altogether (as a very young child). The reason I held onto the memories for so long is because the visual experience and such depth and a kind of monotone fear , I could only remember a caricature of the dream . And my memories of trying to remember and understand of what substance or image I had dreamt , I distilled a memory of a desire for awareness and a frustration at its limits . It's a bit like 'ketamine' , you know it's awesome , but you just can't explain it very well . I used to try to communicate the experience to my parents or others and I could never connect with anyone over it . That's really cool to know others had similar dreams . I always wondered if they were flashbacks from proto-consciousness as a developing fetus or something . Really strange yet so simple . I've done so many tryptamines and phenethylamines and dissociative anesthetics , not to mention I've got temporal lobe epilepsy , but none of that , in any combination , has ever generated a vision like those early childhood dreams .

[@youtubeuser9972]

amazing content, I really enjoy the improvements done to the video and audio. I just wish there was a way to get the episodes on youtube too. Understandable if this isn't possible for financial reasons but still sad.

[@winfriedbauer2280]

I've also had the dreams (nightmares) where i'm standing on an extremely smooth surface, and it made me feel so afraid, or uneasy! Weird

[@andybaldman]

The fact that it's blurry is actually perfectly fitting.

[@aitotem]

Eric: "You were obsessed" London: "Yes... (goes on to describe how obsessed for the fifth time)" Eric: (Expression of wanting to move on)

[@Nirvana7734]

Keep in mind that London was not chosen to be on The Portal for his charisma. It's difficult to do an unscripted program with people who are below average in their interpersonal skills, but who may be highly talented in other areas.

[@perpetualmoto]

I come here for the auditory exploration...all else come after than. You made a wise choice, looking forward to more!

[@thomassimmons1950]

Fiber-bundles as Angels. Perhaps one appeared to Mary to announce the birth of the coming Messiah-Christ. Perhaps the Virgin Mother was a fiber-bundle her own damn self...think about dat sh*t...for real! But seriously folks... Eric's metaphore was quite thoughtful and beautiful. Dis is one smart cookie...the kid too, mind you. PS: This was an amazing piece. Perhaps nature leaves us slightly less than fulfilled because we are spirit moving through nature.

[@JD-ev3po]

Music and art for the intellect! I wish I understood more.

[@SelfMadeHundredaire]

Haha blurry? It looks just fine. It has the same resolution as old school SD tv signal which a lot of us grew up with. Either way, excellent episode and keep up the great work.

[@TendoTheDude]

The Fibonacci sequence and the phi ratio are quite beautiful in regards to mathematics in biology. I think there's more under the surface of that that we haven't delved into. Although I agree it is surprising biology has not found more ways to mimic the profound depths of mathematics.

[@Captain1nsaneo]

Camera was fine, it seems set for the focal depth of the pictures rather than the participants which is actually thematically appropriate.

[@otbgardens5258]

Absolutely amazing!

[@gaulindidier5995]

I never understood the distinction between what people consider arts and math. To me, they are the same thing, just with different methods of encoding. And yes, we must tremble when confronted with objects of the grandiosity of a 7-sphere. We are not worthy of such grace and beauty.

[@Teth47]

The nice thing about youtube as a platform is that nobody expects that sort of sharp polish one finds on television. In fact, that polish is often a red flag that what's being viewed is untrustworthy, an indication that more effort was put into the presentation than the content. I mean try to have most of your podcasts in focus, but technical issues like this aren't a problem IMO.

[@hankroest6836]

Such a mathematical motif for visual art was also used, and beautifully, in the '70's and '80's by Canadian artist Kazuo Nakamura.

[@CulusMagnus]

Awesome conversation!

[@Genghis_Sean_]

I actually think the blurriness gives it a nice aesthetic lol. Like that cheap 90's camcorder look

[@sadface7457]

Life imitates art. Though eventually a convolutional neutral network will be able to rescued this episode.

[@Wodepaya]

Good people must unite with other good people and do good works together

[@davidsimmons9986]

Thsnk you Eric.

[@immanuelkant7895]

Get Chris Langan, the man with an IQ of 200>, talk about his CTMU, would be a great Podcast!

[@JuliaHelen777]

As a, yet another, wanderer kid of the Universe, I appreciate your podcast's topics & guests, while at the same time it helps me remind me your intentionality. I, too, have struggled (still do) to tap into the Beauty of Math for many years... There hasN't been any 'teacher', unfortunately, invested to help me find my own "A-ha!" moments during 'education' times. I've had experienced glimpses while Dancing and doing gymnastics, as a child, but not enough to shake my understandigs in to making those correlations or trigger my quest in digging deeper. 😔 Just about years later, when I start teaching repetitive bodely moves to others myself, that I could reach to the analogies of some basic mathematical principales (think: Martha Graham). That made me smile, gave me Joy en thus rushed the distribution of dopamine to parts that were more in need of. 😉 Long-story-short & as of now, I'm mesmerised by the infinite Beauty of Complex Numbers and their visual art representations (Mandelbrot, Julia's Set etc) & of what's going on between 0 & 1, which undenial brings me to understand much more of what's happening between the 0 & 1's of quantum computation. 🤔 Math is Beauty! And who is able to see it isN't at loss. kzbin.info/www/bejne/kIKpqK2ve9h4oqM Couldn't resist on not aligning this one here, too: I hope is appreciated: kzbin.info/www/bejne/rqitk2NjZ5V0mpY Just so pity for many of biological "us" that didn't 'got it' on time, before we've transitioned it to the next generation, namely our deep learning A.I.-children. I guess, they can help us & so: "Never too late!" 😊 Thank you for doing what you do & sharing it with all of us! It highlights your good intention. 💞

[@Derna1804]

Well, the art is in decent enough focus so that's what counts.

[@NinjaKittyBonks]

Eric.... you have almost too much class. Please don't apologize for bury image, as it is barely worth mentioning*. I hopefully speak for all others who have subd your channel, your guests are always very interesting and your conversations great to hear. Keep up the good work :) *of course, now that I think about it, you already know that a few would have got hung up on it and would rip you in comments :(

[@solarnaut]

Thanks for being concerned about the video quality … though I often use 240 quality and don't really notice an issue.... including the video certainly seems the right choice, though the spoken words are great in any case.

[@Darth_Pro_x]

8:13 "There is no orchestra that preforms works of great mathematical beauty"

[@finchisneat]

One of the most helpful things in visualizing the principle fiber, for example, that is rarely said is basically: It doesn't show the whole shape. It is like a cross section with pieces cut away to reveal what's underneath. London explains it somewhere around 24 minutes and Eric has said it before and when I looked up hopf fibration they showed a cake with a slice cut out so you could see more than just the frosting and into the cake and that helped me a lot.

[@n.puryear198]

The quality of the video is not really an issue. It's fine.

[@anthonywall5227]

Thank you

[@JoeBussiereXXX]

The blur is nice. Cant believe you didnt want to release this video just because of that!

[@ethanshaben3536]

Hey Eric, thank you.

[@q__________]

THIS WAS AMAZING!!!

[@grahamgodfrey11]

thank you as a kid in school geometric shapes where frowned upon in art class when I thought angles should have been teaching vectors. That a squirrel cage motor should have helped bring us to Schrodinger's wave eq. That neil Diamond was inspired by Escher's hands drawing hands. Along came computers and the ability to see infinite fractals we miss so much because lazy minds are in charge of teaching kids. any child that wants should experience a spiro gyro set. Some time when you have an hour watch the video of Stephen Hawking, Arthur C. Clarke and Carl Sagan. 1988 I miss them all!

[@zeppelincheetah]

I'm nearsighted and am watching this on a tv. To handle the blur I just took off my glasses lol

[@initialsound709]

Great job!

[@tommeakin1732]

I absolutely find myself in the crowd of people who seem to have almost been traumatised by maths as a child. I don't know how that happened precisely but my gut reaction to encountering equations seems wildly disproportionate (almost panic). However within recent years I have seen mathematical constructs (visualised) which have simply blown my mind. From seeing some of this beauty, I am curious about trying to sort of reeducate myself, but I feel extremely out of my depth and don't really know where to start or where to go online. I managed to scrape a B from secondary school (high school), but I feel like the "gap" between there and "getting to the good stuff" is probably pretty vast. What free resources can I use that would allow me to attack maths from a new angle so I don't get caught up in that "trauma" haha?

[@MsDamosmum]

This talk makes me feel that I greatly underestimate 'the creator' This talk makes me feel, how can I doubt there being one? (I guess the answer would be, I'm just a simple creature that thinks 'stuff' just falls into place)

[@SystemicNuance]

You should interview Louis Rossman about the right to repair. Another suggestion, Drunken Peasants and their history with kayfabe.

[@anatomicallymodernhuman5175]

To be blunt, the reason so few people are making math art is because hardly anyone wants to see it. It takes a lot of education to even be able to recognize beauty beyond the level of a sunset or a cute actress. Most people think Thomas Kincaid paintings are beautiful, or those little porcelain angels at the craft store. To recognize beauty in math takes a very special mind or a heap of advanced education. It’s a very small group who could even care about, never mind be able to recognize the beauty of a realized fiber bundle equation. Myself, I’m delighted you’re introducing us to this field of endeavor. But if you’re hoping to get it to the masses, you need to get to know more regular Joes. They just don’t care, and they’re not gonna,

[@olas2012]

Iv'e had those dreams too (44:00) Where you have no sense of your size and orientation compared to another object that could be massive or tiny. Its a very uneasy feeling

[@sammysorrentino8311]

Excellent thank you