Long Game Bad, Short Game Good

What does the ideal game look like? How long do you play it, how big is the world and does it even matter?
FilmOtter's video: • Why Do You Never Finis...
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[@TheColeBrew]

Great Vid Jinzee!!!

[@ProperBird]

Sir! Thank you so much for using the secret feature that KZbin has but tells no one about! 🥺

[@AndrewD8Red]

Wait, what's all this now? Since when was that a thing?

[@imatowel5930]

@@ProperBird this is random but your video about gaunter odimm was easily my favorite it pays so much attention to detail and I can’t wait to watch more of your videos when I have time

[@mhosni86]

A good game is never long, nor is it short, it ends precisely when it is meant to.

[@GB-sh9st]

Great game design is like wizardry -- wonderful comment

[@cord113]

and isn't followed by a bunch of cash-grab sequels.

[@AndrewD8Red]

I spent about 310 hours with The Witcher III and it's expansions. I loved that world and I just wanted to stay in it. I hear Jinzee, and I basically agree with what they're saying, but usually, whenever I play a game, I want to make sure the world I'm exploring is big enough to keep going until I want it to be done.

[@morriganrenfield8240]

@@cord113eh…that rules out anan immense amount of games such as ff7, any persona game, and just a metric ton of other games lol

[@cord113]

@@morriganrenfield8240 Yeah, but I can keep dreaming. Keep the original and ignore all the cashgrab sequels, I say.

[@sarooku]

The notion of being too overwhelmed to start larger games is the perfect explanation of how I feel for many new games, and why I keep coming back to older more familiar games. So many "you should really play this" remain untouched in my library while old games keep getting played over and over, though rarely to the end. Only exception for me recently was Valheim, certainly not a short game but absolutely one that caught me for a good bunch of hours.

[@cord113]

For me it comes down to where I want to "live" for a while. I sometimes play 4 or 5 different games whilst trying to make my mind up what I actually want to play. At the moment I'm part way through Far Cry 4, Relel Galaxy, Rebel Galaxy: Outlaw and Breath of Fire: Dragon Quarter.

[@kingjbird92]

The Witcher 3 and Red Dead Redemption are some of the longest games I’ve ever played but they made each of the quests worth my time. They had great stories and characters which gripped me both emotionally and intellectually. That’s what matters: can you get your players invested in the stories, quests, and characters? That’s what developers need to look at!

[@mithos789]

i hated red dead redemption. i think it was way overhyped.

[@GyngerNynja]

I was sitting at home, contemplating what I'm gonna do for the next 36 minutes and 35 seconds, really glad that this responsibility has been taken from me, thanks Jinzee.

[@ProperBird]

I very specifically targeted you with this video actually.

[@scullyy]

I only had 18 minutes and 17,5 seconds to spare, so I had to watch at 2x speed

[@AndrewD8Red]

Floppy disks? A "fossil like yourself" ?! Now, either you're fibbing about your age or you're an immortal vampire.

[@ProperBird]

I do own a set of vampire teeth and a vampire-adjacent coat.

[@ConorCarlisle]

I'm just glad that in Inquisition you don't have to spend the entire time in the game for those 19 hour war table operations. You can start it, turn off the game, and then a few hours later come back and the countdown is still going

[@ProperBird]

Imagine having to stare down your advisors for the full 19 hours.

[@ConorCarlisle]

@Proper Bird Your Inquisitor sits there, completely motionless as your advisors try desperately to rouse you. After trying for several hours they come to believe that Corypheus has put some sort of curse on you and begin frantically searching for a cure. Even an expert on obscure and forgotten arcane lore like Solas is completely stumped. Meanwhile, Sera takes the opportunity to pull your character's pants down and draw a cartoonishly long mustache and several other inappropriate things on your face. Eventually, you return to the game, and your Inquisitor suddenly springs back to life as if nothing happened. And everyone at Skyhold breathes a sigh of relief and makes an unspoken promise to never speak of what happened again.

[@AndrewD8Red]

Well well well, always nice to see another Steve Shives person out in the wild.

[@MaddSeazyn]

Inquisition should always be played on a PC so you can chronomany with your power of changing time and date.

[@julianxamo7835]

What i like about games with collectibles and sidequests is that you can engage with them or not If I complete the side content or not depends on how much I like the gameplay or atmosphere People hate Assassin's Creed 1 repetitiveness, but I completed it 100% (minus flags) because I just like the atmosphere and running around is fun

[@AndrewD8Red]

Oh, quick shout for an indie game; it's a shooter called Hedon. The first part is about 8 hours long. It's deceptively deep with superb world building. I couldn't stop playing it. The second part, Bloodrite, is out as part of the same download, but that one's about 16 hours long. It's one of my favourite games at the moment and it's dirt cheap.

[@Moricant]

I’ve 100%ed the single player modes on 2 AC games, Brotherhood and Black Flag and that was a real slog. Haven’t played the more recent ones due to my “no more Ubisoft until Yves Guillemot goes” rule but even without that I doubt I would be interested due to the sheer amount of repetitive busywork they have. I am very much in the camp of people who like to over level on side content before advancing the main story, so unless that side content is really engaging and/or I am heavily invested in the main story and characters, tedium can quickly set in.

[@ProperBird]

I do the same thing, I like a clear map which makes it even harder to ignore fetch quests.

[@yukarihideki3805]

my thought exactly the same.. their game are so badly design its like anniversary skin dlc from origin to odyssey to valhalla... games exactly all are the same

[@AndrewD8Red]

"Our nerdy spaccboi with mandibles." Weird way to describe Thane, but whatever. Also, friend, I feel you on that whole lack of physical game manuals thing. I may go and leaf through my manual for Arcanum again... maybe bake that banana bread recipe for the umpteenth time.

[@ProperBird]

Ok you know what, Thane is valid too you're right he gets an honorary mention.

[@cord113]

I still have all my old MegaDrive games and one of the things I always loved about them was the game manuals that came with them. The art in some of them is amazing, or just really cute.

[@mompou_]

"a good game respects my time" i feel that

[@dougkenworthy5079]

The algorithm keeps trying to hide this channel from me, but I will never let that happen.

[@JJMomoida]

Being that I am me, I am pretty certain that my 9-year-old self (or myself from 18 down, really) would have absolutely loved a good long game. My younger self simply just had that much time on his hands. When you are a kid, you make do with what you get... if what you get is a lot, as is often the case in a long JRPG and/or open-world game, you... well, you make a lot out of that. When I was a kid, I would get a single game once every two years or so. Yes, I would rent games from the local rental store every now and then, but the games I owned were my "main" games, so to speak, the ones I played the most. They were oftentimes on the short side, and it was early on that I learned to love the longer games. Not from a sheer time-money value aspect, mind, but rather... conceptually. "When a game is long, a grand adventure awaits me." was the thought. Hell, a subconscious thought, really, not quite fully materialized and never verbalized. I can only imagine how much I would have made out of a game like Breath of the Wild as a kid. Chances are, I'd have been able to play that game and that game alone for a good 3 years. I think it's also worth saying that, well, you just mess around a lot more in games as a kid. There's a lot less of an objective-oriented playstyle, and more "play for play's sake" playstyle. I might have booted up Ocarina of Time just to ride Epona around in Hyrule field for a good 30 minutes cause it was fun to ride a virtual horse and think about whatever other wild adventures we could go on.That just... isn't the kind of experience I have nowadays. I still get that sense of wonder and excitement at the prospect of a long JRPG: the people I'll meet, the nature of the world we'll explore, the adventures we'll go on, the twists and turns the story will take, etc etc... But I would be lying to you if I said this sentiment is as strong as it was back then. Long games just aren't *as* appealing to me nowadays. I'm a doctor in his first year of residency. Time ain't exactly something I have in abundance. That said, I still make an effort to play through long games. RPGs are my favorite genre, and I don't think this'll ever change. Only thing that has changed, and will change, is the amount of time required to chip away at them.

[@ProperBird]

Honestly that's partially why I enjoy streaming so much, I'm going to play a game anyway so it might as well be long. We're about to finish a 100 hour+ Persona 4 Golden playthrough and I'm (thankfully) still not bored of it.

[@derpydino17]

One game that suffered from the gaming community’s obsession with long game was Mirror’s Edge. That game was only about 5-7 hours. Many people criticized it for it’s short length, but my favorite thing about the game is its replay ability. The game is a fast paced first person platformer, so that mean the replay value comes from beating levels as fast as you can. Kinda like a Sonic game.

[@shaneluke45]

I would definitely recommend this indie RPG called Driftmoon. It's a quaint, low-stakes ARPG made by a married couple, and even got a free enhanced edition two years or so later. It only takes about 10 hours to finish, and is great as long as you like cheesy humor and dad jokes.

[@Robertson_SO]

Thank you for reminding me to continue to click on grandma's cookies, I forgot to do this in the last 3 months 😴 After finishing Death Stranding, with useless gigantic spaces and tons of fetchs, any other open world game started to make me feel overwhelmed to the point my head hurts if I do side quests. For example, HZD I could complete without much trouble, but Forbidden West I suffered (mentally) to finish the main quest story, even it being amazing. So, yeah, open world games I can only enjoy in small doses due to the abuse of collectibles and similar. I'm glad we have someone here that play some games so well and makes the days nice. Except Teddie.

[@ProperBird]

Robertson no! RESIST! YOU'RE BETTER THAN THIS!

[@Robertson_SO]

@@ProperBird Sorry to disappoint you Jinzee 😋I had "so much to do so much to see", because I needed to reach an "year's worth of cavities". And I achieved it 😁

[@mkthomo23]

"Ripping everything physical out of my life"- i felt that a little too much 🤣

[@Khyldr]

Always love to see a new video upload from the queen of lore!

[@tarnetskygge]

On being overwhelmed by games: the last time I can remember sitting in front of my PC at the start of a rainy weekend and thinking "I wish I had some new games to play" was around 2011. Since then I've accumulated such a steam backlog that situation seems unimaginable now. But the one thing that really makes considerations of hours per £/$ meaningless is the existence of free-to-play games, especially MMOs. Realizing that I have to be selective about new games, even ones I definitely would enjoy, no matter how good the sale price, because I don't have time to play them all... kinda makes you think about the finite nature of life and mortality too lol.

[@ProperBird]

Absolutely, I also never buy day 1 anymore. Best to wait and see what the status of the game is in the end.

[@wndbreak]

Great video. I agree with you 100%. This goes for video lengths on KZbin too, I dread watching almost 2 hour videos that repeats itself over and over again or a clickbait meaningless mess. Balance is key and you seem to have a good sense about it.

[@RolandDeschain1]

Featuring the map music from FFVIII is a sure-fire way of getting me interested. It's my favourite game of the series. I literally wept the first time I finished it.

[@JimFaindel]

I remember the Christmas when I first got to play with a PS3. My father had bought it under the pretense of needing a bluray player, but had asked me what games I would like weeks before. I remember being extremely impressed with FFXIII's graphics, this being my first experience with high definition, and to the artists' credit, the game is still beautiful today. But after 100 hours the ending was still nowhere in sight, and I grew tired of it, not going back to complete its story for almost 2 years. The next game I played was God of War III. Its gameplay was an impressive departure from the jrpgs I was used to, and the soundtrack and wild imaginery keeped me glued to the screen for a whole 8 hours. Which is how long it took me to reach the credits. I felt cheated by that short playthrough even more so than with FFXIII's overlong one. After that sour note, I found Uncharted 2. Its campaign asked some 30 hours of me the first time through, plus another 20 when I decided to get the platinum on the highest difficulty. It felt just right. Add to that the literal hundreds of hours I sank into its multiplayer, and I suddenly found myself in love with Naughty Dog and eagerly awaiting the release of Uncharted 3, which was much of the same.

[@mithos789]

witcher 2 was amazing. the dungeon eyeball scene was amazing.

[@shadowkickftw3513]

Until 2010, the only truly long game I loved was Chrono Cross. Since it’s meant to be played three times, it easily clocks in at over 100 hours. Apart from that, the only games of any real length I played were the GTA Trilogy. I’m 2010, Red Dead Redemption came out and I honestly can’t tell you how many hours or even times I’ve played it. I can tell you that after my fourth run, I started getting 100% completion every time. Here’s an example of how much I love that game: To assist in getting 100%, you have to unlock all of the outfits. Two of them require you to win a game of Texas Hold Em Poker… I do not know how to play poker, and never learned. I simply played until I won, sometimes pausing the game to sleep and returning to it upon waking. I don’t aim to buy or play long games, I just tend to get hooked into their stories and worlds. I don’t feel like I played Assassin’s Creed Origins for over 50 hours, because it was so much fun. I’m even planning a trip to Egypt now (in a few years after I pay off my car 😅).

[@Mandasai12]

I totally feel that on the being overwhelmed thing like opening a game map and seeing so much to do is too much sometimes. I had that with Witcher3 so it took me a long time to finish but I'm never sad I did it was a great game.

[@dfire27]

I've slowly been grinding my way through all Assassin's Creed games and getting 100% on trophies. Currently on Syndicate right now. This video really takes me back and miss some older ges like Alundra. One of my favorite games that was difficult, not too long, Zelda like with a great story. I really miss that game.

[@Doskious]

Moss was a delightfully robust not terribly long VR game that I quite enjoyed.

[@DarkKnightBatman420]

The second you mentioned crafting I felt a glimmer of hope for Terraria. I've got a thousand hours logged and unlogged. I poured my soul into that game. I probably should have found better things to do but I don't regret it much. Overcoming the challenges blindly was all the reward I needed. I absolutely spent too much time with this game. I expect I will even more someday.

[@ProperBird]

If you enjoyed the time spent then it is time well spent.

[@julianxamo7835]

I think Terraria has a different length problem... Farming, the droprates of some items are ridiculous, that's honestly what prevents it from being one of my favorite games, even tho I enjoy everything a lot

[@Yeaster]

A game that respects my time is so important. As I get older, 15-30 hour games are ideal for me

[@danirouge2045]

I feel like that is my major issue with longer games, they don't make it feel worthwhile to do certain things like get all the underwater treasure in Witcher 3, so yeah, I also prefer more story focus games then padded for playtime games. Also thank you for another great video

[@WarpedLord]

I recently '100%'ed Star Ocean 4... an effort I spread out over more than a decade. I'm afraid my definition of 'a long game' may now be forever skewed.

[@Frenchfraeis]

Comments help videos that we like, you say? Don't mind if I do! I also tend to prefer more fun games than just long ones. Outer Wilds is a game that comes to mind, as well as Chrono Trigger. They aren't particularly long games, but the journey and the fun and that's what matters the most to me.

[@cord113]

Have you tried the Rebel Galaxy games? I've not only had a lot of fun with them but I find them worth playing just for the music.

[@MrMonoyo]

Hi Jinzee! I was thinking of you the other day and wondering what you were up to after having a family and all of that. I am glad you are back youtubing. Dragon Age 3 was a bit long winded, but what elese can one expect from the Dread Wolf. We are just 'Leasing' the games we Buy because they are fully dependent on a server to launch the game. The game you purchase or buy does not include the launcher; howevwer it does include the.exe or executable that opens the game to access the server. So we actually do NOT OWN the games WE PURCHASE or BUY. The gaming industry needs to update this feature so we can actually Fully own and download games onto to our hard drive. Buy from Steam, GOG, Origin, etc but launch and play the game Without them.

[@mastergalengeist]

Great video! It is hard to gauge which games will have those fun and meaningful hours. Been burned out on open worlds that do the collectathons and live service models that get boring. I go for more of how much fun I have had with the game more than getting my money's worth out of it.

[@captaindanverz3520]

I know my perspective is different this year with grad school and how much I work overtime, but I have not started a new longer game in quite a while. Death's Door, Silt, Stray, Cult of the Lamb, and Tunic were all easy to pick up and I enjoyed different elements of each. I truly do want to start Elden Ring and Cyberpunk, but once I start spending more than 10 hours in a game I think of all the work I should be getting done instead 😅. A year from now maybe I will appreciate more hours from each game, or maybe I won't ever go back to titles that require so much of my time.

[@ProperBird]

The "think of all the work I could be doing" feeling is definitely a part of it.

[@landar486_TV]

As an enjoyer of extremely short but highly replayable games like FTL & Slay the Spire, and um...titles you could spend months on one playthrough like Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous, and also an ancient being who's seen gaming evolutions, a lot of this makes sense, and indeed some revelations were had, mostly on the math side. Personally my sweet spot lately is something like Firaxis' XCOM/2, medium length and super replayable. Long game lengths do tend to get in the way of trying new games unfortunately, although i do appreciate them if they render a memorable experience. And cheers to touching on the live service thing, especially as there are too dang many of them. ...also that 400 day thing, what??? although it does seem charming.

[@trevorkleiner7]

Part of the reason I was so Happy Jinzee streamed Persona 5 and then 4 was because I was interested in the stories in the games, but didn't what to put in the time myself. A stream is a great way to have that on in the background, experience the story with others (a great way to experience a story), and have a little freedom while someone else does the busy-work. That said, I DO love longer RPGs, and one of my favorite stories to come out of games in the last 10 years have been the Pillars of Eternity games. The game format gives the player the freedom to discover and experience a lot of the world and the people in it, while still having this great main story arc waiting there for you any time you want to pick up that thread. I have over 100 hours into each of those games, with only one playthrough, and it's one of my favorite series ever.

[@ProperBird]

I still haven't picked up Pillars of Eternity but I really should.

[@sjdavanzo]

As a Turbo-Grafx CD owner, I can tell you the soundtrack to Lords of Thunder made it all worth it ! Great essay as always.

[@flyonwall81]

I think you'd like Cat Quest based on what you said in this video.. it's a pretty short indie game.. it's a pretty fun and simple rpg and it seems to check the boxes you mentioned in this video for what you like in games

[@TheAssirra]

I got a serious giggle when you mentioned Assassin's Creed. Ubisoft is so known to "map vomit" as I like to call it it's crazy. Also surprised you didn't mention the curveball in this discussion, the mmo.

[@ProperBird]

I feel like an MMO is in an entirely different ballpark honestly. Mainly because when I played actively I did it to hang out with friends and the game was secondary.

[@TheAssirra]

@@ProperBird Oh I totally agree. It's just that it's clear that the "live service" model came from there. It was bad before with the before named assassin's creed but at least there was an end, eventually. With Live services they don't intend you to ever get near an end and play (and pay) for all eternity.

[@bravo075]

If they tell me a game is 500h long, it's an instant way to put me off. In comparison I still remember this flash game called "Coma", which was like an hour long, or less, and I loved it - as you mentioned, it stuck with me. I hope this trend that length=good ends in the near future, I also prefer shorter games, I don't have time, I mean I'm in my mid 30s ffs. Anywho, if you haven't played Death's Door, do it, the main story isn't that long, and it's so much fun that you'll want to 100%.

[@reaverofjillsandwiches]

I'm definitely in the "I don't have the time" camp for the Witcher games. I'd say at this point I'm better off finding a good let's play series except I don't have the time for that either. Heck this year I played Mass Effect for the first time and that took more time than I wanted.

[@Maradiaga23]

Feeling too overwhelmed about starting new games is why I've spent over a thousand hours in Vermintide 2 in the last few years. Sure, I could start God of War 4 or finally play Death of the Outsider, but I don't feel like I have the time to sit down and play for hours at a time, and putting a story driven game down after just an hour or so to do adulty stuff feels like screwing with the pacing and immersion. Instead I'll do a Vermintide run, which I know will take less than an hour, after which I can choose to do something else if I wanted or needed to.

[@marym6021]

This was such a good essay and video game study; I'm going to send it to so many gamers \o/

[@ProperBird]

Thank you!

[@kalev_knight]

16:57 100h? That's it? *Laughs in Warframe shifts to crying*

[@nemo5336]

Since N7 Day; I've been replaying Mass Effect, and it took me physically just short of the week to finish the first game. Which I then replayed because near the end of my first playthrough, I decided that I wanted to finish the trilogy with my other Shepard.... Yesterday I finally started 3 though.

[@lukeluke333lukeluke]

If you haven't played SOMA? Play SOMA! Its short and has some really great story ideas, top notch narrative and well voiced. Also. If you haven't played Disco Inferno yet. Play it! You won't be disappointed. As someone who works over 40hrs and is married and two kids. I'm much more picky when picking games. Game length and quality is a big factor for me. I've played and love Witcher 3, Persona 5, and RDR2. They are worth playing for me. Watchdogs 2 and other open world games that have pointless task. I gave up after trying it for 5-10hrs. If I'm not having fun. I move on. I'm a bit of completeness and often have to fight the urge to not 100% games. I tend to try in do 50% and decide if it worth my time to stop or do more. Now days. I often stop.

[@JohnnyElRed]

The lenght in games is a problem I hadn't started noticing until I played AC: Odyssey. Yes, I'm no completionist, and is fun to have all this secondary missions with their own narratives and cinematics. But there are. so. many of them. And everytime I have completed all of those missions near my level before returning to the main campaign, I realized I now I'm way above the level the main mission required. Either that, or I got tired of the secondary missions... only to hit a wall in which I have to start doing secondary missions just to grind, and keep up with the main campaign mission levels. And then before that, there was Dragon Age: Inquisition. Which I know people are going to jump me for this, but one of the main reasons I enjoyed DA 2 much more and actually completed it, was how much more shorter and smaller of a game it was. I have no interest on walking around and entire castle and the outer town, just to complete my dialogues with like 17 companion characters after every mission. I'm ok with my 5 pals I will almost always find on the local pub.

[@ProperBird]

Don't tell anyone but I also very much enjoyed DA2.

[@MriInterocitor]

@@ProperBird Mum's the word, because chrysanthemum is too hard to spell.

[@derheadbanger9039]

It also totally depends on the genre of the game! A 2 hour story driven game (especially with a fantastic art style) - totally fine... while a (turn based) RPG has to have at least 20 hours to develop the characters, systems and story in any meaningful way. Any action game is OK being 8 to 12 hours long - afterward they get boring and dull anyways!

[@matthiasmuller7273]

Well since you asked so nicely and this is an extremely well put argument, which I enjoyed listening to for almost all of its length, here us your comment for the algorithm. Keep having fun and playing how you want not how you should.

[@gameanime18]

As for shorter length story focused indie games, Paradise Killer (open ended detective style game), 2064 Read Only Memories (Very similar to something like Snatcher or Policenauts) and Umurangi Generation (More subtle storytelling driven through photography) are always my recommendation

[@ProperBird]

Oh I love detective style games!

[@highlanderknight]

A games length isn't necessarily important, it is how good the game is. Of course, in my opinion anyway, if a game is really good it is ok if the game is longer when I'm really enjoying it. However, because some games are so long (and very very good) I end up not playing some games that I have bought on sale, ever.

[@cheesecurdactual]

Been missing your videos jinz! Fantastic work!

[@patrickvstheworld7017]

I love long games but i never have enough time. I’ve sadly had to turn the completionist part of my brain off so I can beat these monster length titles and move on to more games, doing side quests here and there, but not investing into them unless it was needed for leveling. I wish I didn’t have to, but I’m an adult with little time that still loves beating as many games as possible, while my backlist is still huge

[@ProperBird]

Same, I have to actively talk myself out of clearing the map for my own sake.

[@viceanterra3]

I've actually become slightly allergic to the assassin's creed formula. The minute I see a map full of collectibles, my eyes roll uncontrollably. A very odd symptom. Sometimes it's accompanied with a sigh and an uncontrollable urge to play something else.

[@YllibD]

Jinzee rpg out 1991 was warriors of the eternal sun D&D game on mega drive or on com 64 was eye of the beholder in 1990

[@cord113]

Eye of the Beholder was one of my favourite games on the Mega CD. Somehow after that the PC version just wasn't quite right without Yuzo Koshiro's soundtrack. As for Warriors of the Eternal Sun, I tried playing that again several years ago on my MegaDrive. I got all the way to the final cave before the battery in my cartridge died and wiped my save. Great game though. Shining in the Darkness and the Shining Force games were also great.

[@JohnnyElRed]

One of the shorter indie games I have enjoyed most recently, if you are into narrative strategy games, its probably Suzerain. Completing it takes around 10 hours. But it takese you so much in the mindset of a politician trying to save his country from economic disaster or literal military invasion, all the while trying to improve things for people without accidentally triggering a coup, that it's very easy to get lost in it.

[@MJ-mu7ov]

I enjoyed this video, for some reason I feel compelled to write a comment approximately one sentence long. That is all.

[@ProperBird]

KZbin says I can reply to this comment with "I understand", but I'm still baffled of course.

[@marocat4749]

I do like the computing history thre .And you rememer arcae games??? And floppy discs?

[@YumLemmingKebabs]

Consortium was a pretty fun short lil story heavy indie game. Very short per playthrough, but a lot of replayability. Kinda bad combat though, but also you can potentially avoid it completely. Also there's a sequel in development that'll hopefully have enough money to actually be completed. Lately I've been having a lot of trouble getting into story games actually. I dunno why but I just keep playing repetitive and grindy games that have compelling base gameplay. It's kind of concerning tbh.

[@cord113]

Long game and short game = Tetris on the Game Boy. Level 9 High 5 for a short but sweet game, Endless for a long time waster. Fun either way. :)

[@cord113]

Maybe a related topic for you to cover would be bad video game endings. One thing I really hate is when a great game is spoiled right at the end. It doesn't matter how long or shot a game is or how much I've enjoyed it to that point, a poor ending puts me off of it every time. Neverwinter Nights 2 was a good example of that as it looked like they ran out of budget and gave a badly made slideshow with a narrator who's thick accent seemed totally out of place and came out of nowhere. My earliest example of that was "The Curse of Sherwood" on the zx spectrum where after weeks of trying to complete it we were greeted with a text message that said "congratulations, you have closed the portal of evil". Such a downer...

[@ProperBird]

Knights of the Old Republic 2 comes to mind... Such a shame.

[@cord113]

@@ProperBird I still haven't played KOTOR 2. It's one of the many games in my collection I'll get around to one day.... I finished KOTOR a while back though and enjoyed it a lot more that I thought I would. For one thing when I finised it I actually felt like I'd seen and taken part in an actual Star Wars story. That's more than I can say for any of the latest movies...

[@lordvis3359]

Ahh, time for my annual 'let's see what I've missed over the last few month' watching. And yes, skellige swimming was actually boring. Quite an achievement on its own, really, for the Witcher 3.

[@JayskaTeag]

This is a comment that is about as long as one sentence. *nods sagely and walks away, her job done*

[@ollikoskinen1]

To be honest, I'd play a game that has a compact and great story than a padded one. MGSV had great game mechanics, but the story was too spread out for my taste, and most campaign missions didn't really feel connected to the story. They felt more like side missions to me. On the other hand, I enjoyed RDR2 over the lenght of about six months. I liked to enjoy the feeling of being a cowboy.

[@ProperBird]

Spreading out the main story with meaningless fluff definitely dilutes the emotional connection to the story quite a bit. RDR2 was an amazing ride.

[@ollikoskinen1]

@@ProperBird Right. The MGSV still had some great cinematic moments, and riding at night in Afghanistan on a horse while listening to Midge Ure's The Man who Sold the World is still a vivid memory. Still, I couldn't remember what most missions were about. And the worst thing about playing RDR2? You can not play it again for the first time.

[@jforza]

What a fantastic educational video, I don't understand why this isn't required curriculum in k12.

[@ProperBird]

I will email them immediately.

[@Vasilefs_Terranorum]

09:38 heh, wasn't expecting to find a crusader kings reference here, glad to hear it. Oh and any plans to make any mass effect related content? Hopefully content which doesn't paint us renegades as pure evil for once? Anyway, this is the best I could come up with after being asked to comment twice.

[@ProperBird]

Honestly if I had something interesting to say about Mass Effect (that hasn't already been said) I'd have jumped at the chance.

[@manosbouzoubouzou1386]

Greetings dear bird woman,it’s a really pleasure to see another vid from you,btw I love your voice and narration,as I’ve said before. Btw have you thought about,reading and perhaps creating your own stories?

[@ProperBird]

I have read stories out loud before but unfortunately it's not really sustainable as a channel.

[@manosbouzoubouzou1386]

@@ProperBird understood thanks for clarifying.

[@ViewTube_Emperor_of_Mankind]

Most surprising to me is that you are old enough to have played those old SNES games. I always feel like the oldest Person on the internet when I talk about my childhood Highlight was me being allowed to play Donkey Kong Country for 20 minutes before going to school when I got it for my birthday 1994. Like my parents woke me up earlier and I was sad at first and then told the story in the school and all of a sudden I had the coolest and nicest parents of anyone ever.

[@ProperBird]

That's adorable. My first gaming experience was playing frogger on my dad's old commodore!

[@ViewTube_Emperor_of_Mankind]

@@ProperBird The first game I ever played was "pong" on a console I found in a hidden door behind the wall. But I would say the first "real" game I played was "Prince of Persia" on god knows what kind of machine but I think it was a PC already. Shortly after I got to play NES and then SNES. It's really nice to speak about good childhood memories. Especially when there is someone who has similar or relatable stories to share. Thank you :)

[@cord113]

@@ViewTube_Emperor_of_Mankind The first computer game I played was either Crazy Golf" or "Oh Mummy!" on the zx spectrum, hard to remember which as we got them both ast the same time. If you don't know "Oh Mummy!" check it out. You can see the roots of early survival horror games in games like that.

[@TomWaymouth]

There's a lot of problems with the rise of Xbox GamePass, but it has managed to disrupt this idea of "I'm spending a significant amount of money. This game needs to be worth it in hours" in my brain. I've found myself choosing games instead by how interesting they look to me and have been playing so many more smaller and experimental games because of it. I no longer care about the length of the game which means that my favourite games this year (alongside Elden Ring) are Pentiment, and Immortality. These shorter games have just found a place in my heart and will be there for quite a while.

[@ProperBird]

I hadn't considered the gamepass, that's absolutely true!

[@maxmustermann-zx9yq]

a gem that is too short leaves you wanting more and can be extended through DLC, a game too long might end up sitting in my library forever, never to be completed that said calculating the price per hour, no one could possibly complete with the strategy and grand strategy genre, my most played game sits at 2ct per hour story based games especially badly done RPGs aren't that replayable though, sadly, like Cyberpunk 2077 was a magical first playthrough experience due to story and atmosphere but on the second playthrough I noticed how little choice there is in this "RPG", my Cold Hearted Corpo Merch sounds and plays the same as the Street Kid or the Nomad

[@ProperBird]

That's a very good way of putting it!

[@Overonator]

As I grew older I prefer shorter games, the exact opposite of when I was younger. And I like meaningful content too, not collecting bulslhit. So I guess I'm must agreeing with your video.

[@MrsSetsuna101]

I honestly don't care about the length of the games I play. If I really enjoy the game, I'm going to play through it multiple times regardless of new game+ or extra content. However, if a game takes too long to get to the meat, to "hook" me, if you will, then I will drop it (looking at you, persona 3 😑), though I can forgive that if it's on handheld - less of a barrier to boot it up and slog through in my mind.

[@theelectricprince8231]

15:12 the guilt trip

[@ProperBird]

And I'll do it again

[@IWFDI]

I'm a strange person. I hate collecting collectables, but I'm a 100% kind of guy. I remember Assassins Creed 1, collecting all flags and shit. I hate open world games because I'm a long story kind of guy. Long I mean, where the main story take the most amount of the game time. But most games side content is much longer then the main story... I hate that.

[@sebastianevangelista4921]

As someone who enjoys owning physical copies of various media I can understand your pain over everything becoming digital. I've never been a gamer but it feels like most other nerds are in some capacity, and being someone who is frequently online I am guaranteed to come across people within the nerd sphere going on about something game related so I've picked up on a few things here and there even if I don't know anything about the mechanics of how games operate. Are there any nerdy things that you've ever felt self-conscious about having never gotten into or grown up with, Jinzee? It's fair to say that every nerd has something like that. PS feel free not to answer if it's too personal, but may I ask how The Witcher II saved your life? I'm diagnosed with minor generalized anxiety and I have family member who have dealt with mental health struggles so my question isn't coming from a place of judgement

[@ProperBird]

Half-life, everyone keeps talking about that series and I just never picked it up. And the Witcher was a mental health related problem, the most obvious one that comes to mind, that one.

[@sebastianevangelista4921]

@@ProperBird *HUGS*

[@Suzakuux]

This is a topic I've had with some friends and co-workers before. The idea that the length of a game is a major deciding factor in its quality is crazy to me. A game should just be as long as it's meant to be for the story that the developers are trying to tell. Over the past several years I've started to prefer shorter games, although the ocassional longer ones are fine (as long as they don't feel artificially bloated). There are just too many games releasing that look interesting I'd like to play to be stuck playing something bloated with pointless content that doesn't value my time. There was a comment, I believe from Yoko Taro but not entirely sure, where he said that he would make a game that was 20 minutes long if it was the best 20 minutes ever. I would be perfectly okay with that.

[@ProperBird]

And I would absolutely play that 20 minute game.

[@Dark7amza]

I do love longer games but as you said, as long as its meaningful and fun. I would suggest baldur's gate 3 for you bird 😄

[@cord113]

I think I've mentioned it before, but if you haven't checked out "Observer: System Redux" I think you should. I completed it in just over 11 hour, have no desire to play it again (as it wouldn't be the same now I know what's happening) but think it was well worth buying. I had a great time with that one.

[@ProperBird]

I played Observer on release, the developers sent me a code and I even did a small review on it back then, enjoyed it very much!

[@cord113]

@@ProperBird I hadn't even heard of it until it turned up in a gog sale. I mostly picked it up because I've been a fan of Rutger Hauer's since I was a kid. That was the first game in a long time that I refused to look up any kind of guide when I got stuck and forced myself to work things out for myself. I haven't appreciated a game that much for some time.

[@cord113]

@@ProperBird Couldn't find your Observer review. Is it still around?

[@jakisaur]

how i feel about this video is that i want it to do well but i have a prior engagement forcing me to come back and finish it later but for some reason after watching 15.5 minutes i just feel compelled to write here about how i want this video to do well thanku goodbye

[@ProperBird]

That's such a specific timestamp I cannot imagine anything at that particular moment that might have compelled anyone to write roughly (1) sentence in the comment section.

[@jakisaur]

ive returned with my 10 bear asses, please give me my reward 🤗 (also thanku for showing us the longing, i now want to play it)

[@destebangm11216]

I really enjoyed this video, your commentary is pretty great

[@Leo-Draco]

As a Witcher addict, I truly wonder your opinion on Dragon Dogma and more actually as a old gamer that remembers Quest being on 16 floppy discs with one for saving lol what do you really think of Metal Gear Series as it’s my second most favorite ever after Witcher, gr8 vid wish u the best ;-)

[@DarkKnightBatman420]

Its awesome how you have enough of a following to have a 30 reply conversation in a span of 5 minutes each in reply to each other and telling their financial success stories for your most downvoted comment. It just goes to show you that you can never predict what kind of people will watch your video. I have no need to engage with the frivolous promise of money. The video was enriching enough.

[@yairsofer8933]

24:19 to 24:48 is me to a T 😂😂 1500 hours and counting on Witcher 3 yet I keep replaying it and never play any of the billion games in my backlog and still I keep adding new games to it

[@ProperBird]

But we do THINK about playing them and that's what matters!

[@AndrewD8Red]

There we go, three (or four now, I guess) comments to feed that greedy-ass algorithm.

[@YoshtTheAwesome]

I've never judged a game's value on its length, though I do have my own version of the dollars per hour mentality. It's "Will I be willing to replay this game?" and I add up the playthroughs. I only buy it if I think I'll want to replay it. But based on my patterns of behavior, I do prefer shorter games because the longer games are daunting. I have more hours in Vampire The Masquerade Bloodlines than I do in Witcher 3, even though I discovered Bloodlines about 2 years after Witcher 3. I just replay it a bunch, whereas I only played Witcher 3 twice. And Witcher 3 is amazing but also a huge time investment that I'm rarely ready for.

[@Undivided-X]

I think there are open world games that are easilt replayable, like Skyrim. Witcher 3's issue is it's such a grand thing with so many moving parts it's hard to replay from scratch.

[@grayearly3116]

I literally tell people to go offline when they play DA inquisition so that they can mess with the clock lmao

[@ProperBird]

Probably should have done some clock shenanigans honestly.

[@dmuir1974]

Strong hint understood.

[@lordneojacks]

we're fortunate to have you

[@winterburden]

Thank you Bird Channel!

[@ProperBird]

No, thank YOU.

[@ButtslammerBob]

Short game good. But I think I believe this because of how over-saturated open world, timedump games are and how tired of them I am. Unless the game is a proper sandbox (Factorio, Dwarf Fortress, Rimworld, etc) and then time is subjective and meaningless.

[@cord113]

I like the Saint's Row games (the originals, not the latest reboot). Sometimes it's nice to just drive somewhere with a nice view and listen to the radio for a bit.

[@ButtslammerBob]

@@cord113 True

[@johnknighthawke2098]

That a video game shouldn't be judged on length alone is so obvious that it's depressing that you have to make a video to say it. I actually didn't know that time, by itself, was being used as a metric. Kind of depressing. Having said, that, two things. One, I remain impressed by Skyrim's length, and importantly by the "you can play this forever" aspect (MODS FOR THE WIN!!!) because I adore the setting and my character and like the idea of his story lasting forever. (Which makes my messed up save all the more depressing but hey at least it's finally making me play Witcher 3 in earnest...) Two, I'd urge you to not be put off starting games that you are enthusiastic for simply because they're too long and you fret you won't have time for them. Look at it this way: A long video game can be equivalent to a serialized drama television series with a very long run time. Each one to two hour play session can constitute an "episode." And you decide when the episode ends. So....Start that game!!!

[@AndrewD8Red]

Huh, I'll be damned. Didn't know about this feature at all. Anyway, it's a cold-ass day, go get yourself a coffee or hot chocolate or something, courtesy of your YT community.

[@ProperBird]

Andrew! Thank you so much that's so kind of you!

[@michimatsch5862]

It doesn't matter how long it is, it depends on how you use it.

[@cord113]

Not an RPG, but I had a side scrolling shoot 'em up on my zx spectrum when I was a kid. A the end of it after you kill the final boss and free Chronos, the Lord of Time, He informs you that while he's grateful you've freed him you've caused a rupture in time that you must fill and are doomed to fight until death. ie: forever. You're then sent back to the beginning of the game and have to go through it all over again. (jing it baby!)

[@cord113]

I just re-read what I'd written and realized I forgot to mention what that game was. Anyway, it was called "Chronos", you can find longplays of it on youtube. Also, maybe that was too obscure for most people, but "Jing it baby" was what you'd type in to activate the "Mega Laser On" cheat mode, something that I still remember after more than 30 years. :)

[@DarkKnightBatman420]

I beat all of the pikmin trilogy in a week each. Currently playing The Outer Worlds for my third week and I expect to play 3 more times just to hear partner dialogue. I forced myself to complete all of Gladys quests without bringing them back to her and spending 10k on a key. Quests aren't much different from collectibles. I'm on the fence about those replays though. So much other gaming to be done.

[@r0nd03]

Excellent video. For me, the "too many things to do" part is worse than length. I would recommend citizen sleeper, if you havent played it already. It is very different, but has fantastic story telling.

[@ProperBird]

Haven't heard of it, I'll check it out!

[@isaaismail3676]

This is one sentence.

[@jaywillam]

Unboxing is a really good short game, around 3 hours