NI Kontrol S Series MK3: The pros and cons of upgrading // S49/S61/S88 MK3 Review & tutorial

[@smokey5100]

NI, NEVER give up on integrating and supporting the Maschine. We bought in and it's an integral part of our production arsenal!

[@repellentment]

That killed my will for MK3. I will stick with MK2 until they release MK4 (if ever) and then we'll see did they bring Machine integration back.

[@shadowhenge7118]

Same, i almost bought this to upgrade my studio controller from my mk2. Glad i watched the reviews first. Ni putting out a product thats not even compatible with its own software is laughable.

[@intihumala9087]

I still dont understand this.. Sorry im an MPC user and I have been eyeballing the Maschine Plus Standalone and the S88 in hopes that I could use these two machines together. Do they not integrate and support each other?

[@m1ndsetstudio]

​@repellentment I am about to take my mk3 back, didn't know it didn't work in maschine, that's insane.

[@smokey5100]

@@m1ndsetstudio They are about to drop Maschine 3 soon so stay tuned.

[@D-One]

The only youtuber so far with early access to this keyboard with critical thinking, not scared of stating the cons. Hats off for not being a shill like most others! 👍 I don't trust anyone else with HW reviews these days.

[@ilmostro749]

Absolutely, couldn't have said it better myself. I always save LP's reviews for future reference. Keep up the good work.

[@davidcorraleslopez612]

Say that cons is part of the deal for free stuff.

[@shocktnc]

If they get it for free its biased, plain and simple.

[@DopamineOverload]

D-One! My man from the NI forums (or formerly?). You rule, my dude.

[@D-One]

@@DopamineOverload Hi. Yeah, currently, for now at least. Thanks bro! :)

[@youtubevideos415]

Thanks loopop for seemingly being the only KZbinr which made an honest review. The drop of support for Maschine is absolutely shocking. I would never have thought this would be possible. What's even more shocking is that most other KZbinrs didn't even mention this in their reviews. They only showed the good sides and not any negatives. They are just doing advertisements for Native Instruments. Thanks for being honest with us.

[@RubenDari]

I realized most "reviews" are actually commercials. Especially when the "reviews" come out the day of launch. Loopop is the only real one out here!

[@youtubevideos415]

@@RubenDari Sad but true. Most of the other KZbinrs are sellouts.

[@RubenDari]

@@youtubevideos415 nah dont be mad! this is their JOB! this is how they are paying rent! this isn't a community, youtube is a mall, everyone's channel is a store, and amazon is checkout. that's what this has become. once you see it, you arent mad. when i go to the music store, i expect dude to sell me something, that's why he is there. why make a video for tech you dont need ? its your job. Loopop would have an amazing music store. itd be big, but not part of a chain, and he would do workshops and give you free good advice. lol

[@bjondersson]

Surely they could put the values of the parameters inside the circle for the knob position. Space could be saved by showing them as, for example, “56” instead of “0.56”. If not inside the circle, then below. There’s also a huge, practically unused, space on the screen that just shows the instrument art. If they want to keep the UI clean, then make it optional for those that want it.

[@masonshivers4663]

That's exactly what I was thinking! I feel like the UI is pretty but in general wastes a lot of space. Like, we don't need a graphic showing what plugin we're using taking up half the screen

[@vincerooney2445]

I don’t understand why companies make new products with less features than the previous versions. I was really hoping for the MK3 with Mashine integration with pads and sliders. Plenty of room for it.

[@magnuseriksson8081]

Can't trust the NI when it comes to supporting their own products long-term, why would I buy NI if they do not support their own products long-term themselves, I would never buy this, not a good integration with Maschine and the DAW, Sorry NI you loosing clients

[@foolishandthewise]

I totally agree! @@magnuseriksson8081

[@omegangerman]

I don't really know, but I would argue that this is a marketing strategy. They take one or two big features and build them into the new version and market it with just those features. But you also keep in mind other possible big features that you could include in the future, so that you can upgrade the versions step by step and make as much profit from them as possible. This means that the pads and sliders will then be built into MK4 or MK5. Maybe also in a new IP. In addition, more pads and sliders would push the price up even more, which they certainly don't intend, because that would scare off potential customers, even if it had more to offer accordingly.

[@EverHappyDude]

And a touchscreen!!

[@DubElementMusic]

man, only 8 knobs and no slider`s is a absolute no go, i am gonna buy the mk2 of this, but only because i want to learn play piano and it has scale assis LED`s, wich will help me a lot. as soon i can play and know the chords etc. i would never ever buy a NI midi keyboard again.

[@DawlessHouseMusic]

Touch screen is not always what you want. I think they made the right choice.

[@loopop]

I agree btw

[@MyNameJeff..]

No

[@mass-1128]

Agreed. It makes the screen dirty, scratchy and it becomes unresponsive over years.

[@5etz3r]

I am one of the people who absolutely hates touch screens. I don't even like it in cars, I prefer 2007 dashboards. With audio gear I am even more firm in my position, I prefer knobs and sliders, and would pay double the price for something with a big bloated interface with complete controls instead of some multi-use touch screen. I know I am in the minority here but I am passionate about this. There is something unprecise and cumbersome about touch screens. To be fair, I do think touch screens work well for multipurpose devices like cell phones. But there isn't a single touch screen device I will use in a music studio.

[@MyNameJeff..]

@@5etz3rHave you ever used the mpc live?

[@Distortic]

I am suprised the didnt jump on the standalone bandwagon. Having a hardware system with there entire Komplete suite would be a worthy addition to every set up.

[@eaman11]

Dam at least VST support, that would be the point of Native Access keyboards. Maybe not Maschine standalone but at least VSTs...

[@jean_voyage]

They have already failed once with the M+ and probably have no idea what went wrong (or rather, the engineers and actually software people are probably ‘told you so’ and marketing and management are like ‘I don’t get it, only conclusion can be that we don’t do standalone in the future).

[@eaman11]

@@jean_voyage OK but I guess that Intel doesn't even sell Atoms anymore, they would be forced to use something decent.

[@danwentz]

Just got my MkII and will keep it, Maschine is worth having in my opinion. Great review!

[@HoldMyBeerFam]

Same and agreed

[@palette1531]

SAME! especially when they are not upgrading the keybed (unless you really want the poly aftertouch ...)

[@m1ndsetstudio]

Wish I had seen this before I purchased. Going to test in cubase and decide if I want to go back to using cubase to create.

[@Rollur1234]

You are an Encyclopedia Loopop!! This the answer to my questions..... NI is winning me over ❤❤❤

[@ktreier]

The Polyphonic AT is the only feature addition I think would drive me to consider this instead of my Novation SL Mk3 and Arturia Mk2 88 key. At the moment I’m going to wait and see what Arturia does with the Mk3 premium expected imminently. The dependency on the Kontrol Software is a hindrance also. As always excellent review though!

[@5etz3r]

I have a 61 SL MK3 as well and I also agree that the only thing I'm craving here is polyphonic AT

[@willmcelroy6376]

Right, I agree. NI didn’t really innovate here. Just a variation on stuff that’s been out for years. Disappointed.

[@artephank]

Also the keybed on SL is cheap AF. And the overall "feel" is chepao as well. But functionality wise - it is great. I however prefer feel more than functionalities. And PolyAT is BIG.

[@ktreier]

@@artephank agreed that SL keybed stinks. I have PolyAT with my Hydrasynth and Iridium and a hammer action keybed on my Arturia 88 Mk II, but a controller with a great PolyAT keybed with the functionality of an SL would be awesome. Let’s face it the Kontrol is a great tool when used with the software, or Kontakt, but w/o those it’s a mediocre MIDI controller. Launching w/o Maschine support is a bad move too. I’m going to see what Arturia and Novation release before changing out anything I own.

[@ktreier]

I guess I couldn’t trick @loopop into disclosing anything about upcoming Arturia products he might know about with that comment and praise. Oh, well, I rely on his reviews before buying anything.

[@MattStewartEvans]

Thanks for a very thorough review. 100% agree with your comment about those top buttons still being able to be used as a track selector - I use that all the time on my MK2.

[@bunker8digitallabs]

I really was hoping that after the length of time they had between the mk2 and mk3 that this would be a substantial release. It feels like aside from the polyphonic aftertouch, that there is little else to recommend as an upgrade. I believe that it is simply ridiculous not to include faders and pads at this point. They are like apple in the way that if you want an instrument with pads, you buy maschine, if you want keys, Komplete Kontrol. Ridiculous that they didn't include pads on the instrument. At this point, every one of their other competitors has it. You cannot touch Komplete Kontrol for integration in your studio setup, love it! But really, no pads, no faders, no touch screen? Pick any one of these as an upgrade to mk2 and you would have thousands more people onboard with the upgrade.

[@TheOneMonk]

Fully agree. Underwhelming update and a missed opportunity. What were the responsible product managers thinking? That poly aftertouch alone would drive peps from MKII to MKIII? That is just silly. Well, at least I will continue to use my Nuances midi controller sitting on top of my MKII.

[@sqwerty0829]

Completely agree with you on this. They have so much wasted space on the controller that could easily be used for pads and/or faders. I also hate how they force you to use the nks integration instead of the standard quick mapping from the DAW. If it included these features then it would be a serious contender

[@BrunodeSouzaLino]

This is similar to when Novation decided they wanted to make a new version of the Remote SL. The mk2 version saw Novation cramming as many controllers they could even in the smaller 25 version, which has all the knobs and sliders the 61 version has. The mk3 version has more pads, but has overall less controls, on top of losing the XY pad. Arturia seems to be the only company still putting loads of controls on their MIDI keyboards these days.

[@miroassi]

So you recommend Mk2

[@bunker8digitallabs]

@@miroassi100%. There is nothing except polyphonic after touch and a combined single screen instead of two screens. A huge let down after 6 years.

[@erikjohnson2976]

Absolutely stellar and informative review. This addressed all of my questions, and then some. This is how it is done! Thank you.

[@ohheyitskevinc]

MkII (and before that mkI) owner here. I may have skipped to the pros and cons as I’m on a conference call right now, but “maybe they will include that in a firmware update” isn’t something NI will ever follow through on. The mkII was abandoned as soon as it came out. This looks like a downgrade in exchange for the touch strip being in a better location. Ugh. I’ll stick with my mkII and keystep pro as my setup.

[@MatsueMusic]

I abandoned NI hardware/software for this exact reason. I had a "DJ" phase and realized how locked in to there software and hardware I was when there was a bug in Traktor and couldn't switch to Serato...and they never fixed the bug and moved onto another newer controller.

[@Daphoid]

I have a mk1. But as a hybrid guy this doesn’t look hugely useful to me. I like the NI stuff I have but it’s only part of my setup. Whatever control I get (no space for one now) in the future has to talk cv and stuff as well. If novation does a Mk 4 of their SL that might be compelling. Then I’ll just keep the mk 1 s49 for NI stuff. I’ve got the maschine mk3 and jam for that stuff as well.

[@ohheyitskevinc]

⁠​⁠​⁠@@Daphoidyeah I’m the same - I gave up on any firmware updates for the KK and instead bought a Keystep Pro for all external gear. I actually find I use that more - and I even use the Keystep with the KK software and Kontakt more than the S61 mkII these days too.

[@keithdunwoody1302]

You took the words right out of my mouth. Instead, they'll just try to get us to buy the next iteration. I'm on the Mk1 and would keep using it, but now that they have stopped supporting it I'll have to go elsewhere or get the Mk2 and who knows how long that will be supported? Disappointed. Looking at the competitors now.

[@Grummycanader]

I think the main reason most KS2 users didn’t make much use of the Machine integration is because they kept it one or the other. I was going to buy a Machine Mikro but fount out if you’re using the Micro with Machine you couldn’t use the buttons on the S2. I feel like if they’d have figured that out, a lot of people using the S2 would have bought Machine Mikros to pair up. But NI never opened that pairing up. Buying a full sized Machine just felt too redundant and I just went other routs for beat focused workflow. If they had integrated that workflow they’d have sold a lot more Mikros. Missed opportunity. Also I’ve learned to not trust “hinted at” features from NI. They often just stop being hinted at never seeing the light of day.

[@GodsFavouriteGang]

Perfectly said 👌

[@foolishandthewise]

yup@@GodsFavouriteGang

[@shadowhenge7118]

NI means Not Integrated

[@Rollur1234]

This automap technology is so anticipated. It opens up so many possibilities in music making :)

[@TheConsideredMan]

They're getting my money! Had the S88 Mk2 and the keybed, at this price point is, arguably one of the best around, and now with polyphonic aftertouch...oh yes, it will be mine!

[@CreativeSpiral]

Great review, loopop!.. covered all my questions, and offered up some constructive criticisms that I agree with. This is pretty much exactly what I imagined the MK3 would be. Excited to get hands on the Fatar PolyAT! Glad they moved that ribbon up above... constantly was hitting it by accident on mk2.

[@falazarte]

I do use my MK2 to control my M+. This could have been a good opportunity to redeem some of the horrid M+ stories and make a controller for their standalone posterchild.

[@MyNameJeff..]

Their standalone poster child that they abandoned. They finally made an update to actually make the thing work (after years of people complaining) and then abandoned it.

[@jorcis67]

As always, thanks for another great review. I got my MK2 last year for the current price as I got some discounts. I think I'll be keeping it for a while as the after touch it's nice, it might not justify the upgrade just yet. I completely second your call for them to do better integration with Ableton Live. Honestly, I was expecting more of the MK3.

[@AlessaBaker]

Was about to drop a bunch of money on this, but going for the MK2 for the Maschine integration - really surprised they've stripped that out, a real shame since I would love that aftertouch too.

[@kielhall8363]

No integration with maschine Did they rush this out?

[@doverbeachxyz]

Maschine Is abandoware. No Rush imho.

[@lib747]

Great review as always. I often say that less is more, but in this case, I'll stick with my S49 MKII.

[@JamesBermingham]

I think the dictionary needs a new entry. "Loopop: The Video manual God." I like this 49 key version a lot. I've been using an Arturia Keylab for years as I do love that controller, but with this Video and the long standing relationship of NI with Arturia through NKS, I think things are about to change. Super video!! GAS off the scale ❤‍🔥🔥❤‍🔥🔥

[@lowlowseesee]

this is the most comprehensive vid on this thing i have seen

[@mikec3412]

Arturia should take these new keyboard entries as a signal its time to update the keylab to Mk3.

[@davidmcnamara7928]

Best review by far of anything I've seen for the MK3. I can understand why the cons would be showstoppers for many people. Personally I just needed a clear demonstration and understanding of how the light guide works for non-NKS instruments and you provided that: I mainly want that feauture because it makes it easy to experiment with lots of different scales. So the MK3 will probably work for me but I'll continue to research and ponder a bit before making the decision. Thanks!

[@andrejkobal]

As usual, a fantastic review. Maybe there is just one point that I found missing, which is worth considering before upgrading. From what I know in the latest Komplete Kontrol Software, you can still load only one NKS VST Instrument at a time. So, this is quite a limitation compared to the Maschine software option in the MK2 KK Keyboard, where you can load multiple instruments (even 3-part NKS) in Maschine Software. Yes, it is true that you can load multis on MK3 with the Kontakt integration, but this is not the same because you can load only Kontakt Libraries but not also third-party supported instruments such as Arturia. So I think NI should integrate the Maschine Software or make a Multi-instrument Komplete Kontrol software.

[@Br00sta]

Great review (as always!) but this - a review of some gear that I have some interest in - always gets me excited to maybe get the thing but then I should realise that a load of the benefits of this would also be had if i actually used the gear I currently have fully. But that would mean probably sitting down and reading the manual (!) or at least focussing on the item for an extended length of time, as in beyond the point of mild amusement/fun!

[@0e0]

they should also make a Komplete+ and you can take your kontakt libraries on the go with a full sequencing workstation of maschine inside.

[@connorsol]

This is what I was wishing the Maschine+ would have been when it dropped (and flopped)! A hardware Kontakt player would skyrocket NI's market share but they don't see the potential 🤷‍♂️ (or the CPUs necessary for a Komtakt-centric hardware are too few or too costly to mass produce)

[@TheJonHolstein]

@@connorsol There is linux and ARM support for the VST format, so I'm sure that they could build a system that could run quite well on a CPU that isn't overly expensive. They could always use a system for quick built in storage, that works well with disc streaming, where it would buffer samples too (from a slower drive), instead of relying on RAM that would probably increase the cost. But I would not go for maschine as the workstation software, it doesn't feel like the best solution for a general purpose keyboard, that would challenge Kronos and similar stuff, they need a more streamlined sequencer for that, as in most cases a DAW would probably to any heavy lifting in terms of sequencing.

[@thegood9]

I'll upgrade just to get the strip moved to above the wheels. I, like you, would CONSTANTLY hit it while playing, resetting modulation and other settings unwantingly during recordings and performances. Everything else is just butter!

[@AgeCreationTutorials]

Fantastic review. Thank you very much!! I don't think I will upgrade for now. I love the MK2's integreation into Machine but from the little info there is online about this feature I guess I was one of its only users. I just hope they continue to support Machine. The direct integration into Kontakt, however, is a great addition!

[@jimmyscott7414]

I like that they have made it possible to group your parameters like OSC & LFO. Makes way more sense than having to tab through all the different pages. But why wouldn’t they make that possible on the mk2? Seems like a simple thing to do.

[@darksiderahb]

Honestly, poly-aftertouch is the thing I was looking for on one of these controllers. I've never loved the keybeds of any of these controllers (I've been spoiled for a long time by the keys on my Korg Triton Pro 76, still in great condition even 20 years on), but for something to control all of my soft-synths and keyboard-less gear...this looks perfect. Doesn't hurt that I'm a long-time NI user, too. Still, I can't help but be curious what Arturia is going to do to counter. I'll be keeping my eye on the S61 for when it's in stock. Thanks for this excellent review. (I mean, all your reviews are excellent.)

[@TheJonHolstein]

Key feel to some extent is a matter of personal taste, so there can be people out there, that would pick the Kontrol S series over your Triton. I love the feel of the Kawai VPC1, but that doesn't even have aftertouch, and it is no perfect for all playing styles, as it is a very piano feeling keyboard (much better piano feel than any Roland, Yamaha, Korg I have felt).

[@valdir7426]

I feel like native instruments overall represents quite an old school way of making music on a computer when companies like arturia or novation or even ableton have a more interesting approach, integrating for example concepts from the modular world. Lack of real daw support makes it instantly unappealing when it has become the norm, and with parameter naming for even cheap controllers

[@akwesiakwesi1]

Wow thats the best review i've seen so far on the komplete kontrol mk3.. Thanks man you're are the best...❤

[@user82938]

No Maschine integration is insane.

[@jivexero]

not insane. stupid.

[@TheBiggerNoise]

Yeah, that’s a deal breaker. Still recall that they took years to get DAW integration going for the mk2; I wouldn’t trust them even if they made a firm promise of support.

[@user82938]

@@TheBiggerNoise Yeah, honestly I don't even trust them to be around in 5 years. I think I might be done buying anything NI.

[@JamesBermingham]

I don't understand why Native Instruments or Arturia don't have a "Delete" button on their controllers for removing clips in session view within Ableton. I always have to reach for the mouse for that. A bug bearer for me.

[@Sensorium_Studios]

6 years since the MK2 was released. In 2023, I would have expected MPE support tbh. Poly aftertouch is a nice add, but everyone wants MPE now. Possibly for this to be added via firmware or is the hardware itself not capable?

[@MrSNEAKFREAK96]

I think MPE would be pretty hard to do on a mass market product like this. Osmose is the only one to do it with a normal keybed, and that took a lot of R&D and is only available in 49 keys. I think a dedicated MPE controller is the way to go.

[@loopop]

The issue isn't MPE as it is actually building the extra dimension in the phyiscal hardware like in Osmose

[@noitnova]

The software designers are not the best designers. in 2023 stil no automatic time stretch in Maschine. Maybe they must look at the MPC software.

[@loopop]

@@noitnova there’s time stretch in Maschine for years now

[@GrayGhostDog1]

Question is, how did Korg with its new Keystage have PolyAT, MIDI 2.0, and MPE support???

[@sinkorswim2564]

Very thorough review and feature assessment. Thanks for the work you do. Very helpful!👍

[@nlamste3]

Great review, as always. I enjoy how easy you seem to find your way with new hardware (and software). The Komplete S MK3 looks nice...BUT...I have some difficulties buying into products from companies who do not seem to invest in existing products. Firstly it is cool to have the new Komplete MK3 integration with Kontakt, but how great would it be to have an update for this as well for the Komplete MK2. Look at Arturia Minifreak with all the updates it gotten over the years, so it is still a great product today. Secondly, before putting the MK3 on the market, they devaluated the MK2 by giving big price drops. So users who bought the MK2 at normal prices are not happy because their product got a lot cheaper. And the people who purches with the low prices are disapointed because their product is emmidiatly 'old' because of the MK3, and should beworried that NI will stop supporting their newly purchased product. So I will keep my MK2 which I purchase a couple of years ago for 100% price, because NI ruined the second hand market by flutting it with their 'old' stock. There will be a MK4 and MK5 which makes the older MK's absolute. Hurray for Gear Acquisition Syndrom 😛

[@TheJonHolstein]

I would not trust NI to find a way to update the firmware of the Mk2 to support the new Tabbed parameter control. especially since they dont seem to be able to have a strategy to maximize their ecosystem. I would love a desktop unit, with just a few pads (perhaps similar to ATOM SQ, for key-switching or basic playing/auditioning, and finger drumming), that could be used to expand any controller or just sit on my desktop... I also would no thave minded a grid version as well... And the Maschine Mk2 should have had komplete Kontrol integration. This way they will not get people in to using the software on all their tracks, even if they have a hardware, since it relies on the hardware to make any real sense, so at a desk, without the hardware, you will just get annoyed at komplete kontrol software. And a lot of people that would have considered getting in the the NKS ecosystem will not buy in to it, as they will not want any of the current Kontrol kyboard offerings, either because they have a controller that fit them that they don't want to replace, or they want a type of controller, that NI isn't offering. Tabbed parameters are a huge step forward, though nektar has had it for a while, including a series of controllers with pre labeled buttons to jump to the right tab of settings. But if old hardware is left out, the implementation from vendors will take longer time, or might not happen, as it would only be useful for those with the latest controllers.

[@CosmicConsciousness999]

MK3 good, yay

[@MrCcfly]

how ? just use what u use before and have fun

[@0e0]

Maschine should be totally be integrated

[@MSNGR415]

Maschine should be a lot of things.

[@fedism]

Does the maschine interface at least appear on the screen?

[@sstroh32]

@@MSNGR415I literally did a little laugh/cough thing that sent a sip of coke (the drink) out my nose the wrong way Maschine should be a lot of things, but op right it should be fully supported by all NI keyboards. Pretty remarkable that it’s not. komllete id a pain too, would be much more convenient to pull up and scale or key switch guide from within kontakt. Still, the parameter adjusts for heavy komplete is on par with push for Ableton user… ok that’s a stretch but it’s really really convenient for sound design Ok NI-somewhat reluctantly-take my money

[@frauditorsrscum9332]

Totally correct!

[@YattirSmith]

@@fedismnope … that’s crazy… in a way this is a step backwards

[@cloudplayro]

I first discovered the chord sets and harmonizations and arpegiator on the Maschine software. It's nice to see them available in Kontrol

[@RyeRyeShnatBat]

You’re videos just saved me so much time and money holy shid thank you

[@architechproducer]

With that bigger sized screen, I'd like the option to see the parameter values as clearly visible meters, which could range all the way from bottom to the top of the screen, instead of, or on top of the fancy plugin artwork. Then we could see the values, even from a little distance. Or maybe show the previous/next parameter page on that extra available screen space..? Maybe even add an extra macro parameter page to both the controller and the komplete/kontakt/maschine plugins. I am also a bit confused on why they didn't just put one maschine button, next to the DAW button and have that button open up maschine functions for the already included buttons. Is it to make the maschine controller more of a "must have"? I am already a bit sour over the maschine mk3 not being able to control parameters in komplete, since my Komplete Kontrol S88 is placed a bit to my side, but my maschine mk3 is always just in front of me. Would have been easier and more fun, if everything was integrated.

[@mjrisinsd6836]

I don’t think the intention is to sell Maschine controllers merely because they are so cheap. You could get a Maschine Mikro for a little over $100 and it would be more than enough to control the software with moderate mouse usage. I think NI just never listens to customers and is very lazy in design among other things (customer service; actually updating to a functional order system; and doing software updates).

[@Noisa]

Great review. Just got a used mk2 at a very good price. I’ll probably hold onto that one for a while; not too much fomo going on thankfully.

[@davidbanner9001]

It looks wonderful and I'm sure the key bed is very nice. I'm also very happy to see poly-aftertouch and a ribbon on a midi master keyboard. The only thing I would add are faders. It's also great that there is a standard in NKS.

[@MrMarcLaflamme]

Damn that Fixed Velocity button is something my Novation Launchkey MK3 sorely needs!

[@pw6002]

I don't think you have mentionned it in your video (but I may have overheard it): the Komplete Kontrol software is free, and you can use it to browse (and pre-listen) through the presets of all your NKS compatible plugins, even without any Native Instruments Controller. Which is already fantastic to easily find the sound you are looking for. Concerning the polyphonic aftertouch, I think it becomes a must-have since more and more DAWs and plugins are MPE-compatible.

[@TheJonHolstein]

Polyphonic aftertouch isn't even MPE, it is standard good old midi, but not many software supported it before this MPE adoptation. The Komplete Kontrol software may not support MPE, only Polyphonic aftertouch.

[@DopamineOverload]

This is also extremely important. You don't need a Komplete keyboard, as you can easily browse presets and tweak parameters with any third-party controller. That's honestly how I use my KK plugin.

[@jkq2006]

Maschine Jam controls the parameters of Live , its a great piece of hardware that NI pretty much abanadoned. Can also use it to change tracks in arrangement view as well as trigger clips in session view. Jam + KK2/3 + Push 3 is a nice setup for a hybrid Live/Maschine setup

[@gariculus]

I was hoping NI would add sliders on the new version.

[@robmcguinness2818]

The most annoying thing is that they have made the MK1 keyboard obsolete as of the 11/10/23 and the MK3 are not available till early November, worse still they have updated the software (available 12/10/23) which will not work with the MK1 keyboards, so now I have to either stay on old software or pay for the new MK3 (which i cannot buy YET) and throw out my perfectly good MK1 61 key YET another win for sustainability YEH GO NI !!!!!!!

[@Clarity-808]

I wish they put Play Assist into the keyboard itself for when we’re in MIDI Mode. Doesn’t feel like too much of a challenge considering how many other keyboards have similar functionality.

[@loopop]

it seems like they're seriously considering it, but no commitment yet

[@Clarity-808]

That’s great news. Also, thanks for the excellent review.

[@NativeInstruments]

I can upgrade that to a commitment. Just can’t be public about timeline.

[@johnsuggs7828]

I own the S-series 61-key MK1 which for some inexplicable reason, Native Instruments just decided to not support anymore. The keyboard line that was made specifically for the Komplete Kontrol Software, is phased out. There's literally no good reason to do this other than to try and get you to buy another 800+ dollar controller. I had to uninstall the 3.2 version and install the 2.9.6 version in order to continue using my keyboard controller. Arturia would never do this. I purchased their Pigment software version 3. They gave me versions 4 and 5 (the latest) for free as an upgrade. Same thing with their microfreak. Just giving away riches....that's called good customer service. Take notes

[@keithdunwoody1302]

Yes, this. Total cluster by NI.

[@AndrewAlex92]

I could have sworn I saw the mk2 review on here... and then it disappeared. Told myself I was crazy. Then I got my novation sl mk3 and I had a gut feeling that the Komplete Kontrol mk3 was on the horizon. And lo and behold... here it is. Knew I should have waited another 2 weeks! Edit: realized the sarcasm might not have come through - I'm quite pleased with my SL mk3 😅

[@staypth3195]

Naw, a touch screen would have been a game changer. They definitely should have made it to compete with Akai’s key 61. Dope concept but a little outdated. Excellent review btw. Please keep up the good work.

[@gowimusic]

I went to the NI site to look at their career section. They currently have over 20 positions that need to be filled. The majority are software engineers and researchers. They also need some leadership for marketing and sales. The lack of programmers and researchers could be the why the new controllers do not (and may never have) the DAW functionality of other controllers and Maschine integration.

[@loopop]

Could be, though it's actually a good sign when a company is hiring

[@NativeInstruments]

Building for continued growth 💪

[@0e0]

they really really refined this product line in an attractive way. I have a studio logic controller but I'm strongly considering this now

[@Mr2marco2]

Hello,I have a question :when in chords mode on Ableton live;does play just a single note or the entire chords (like the novation sl mk3 I mean).Thanks

[@SwishStillPimp]

I was ready to buy the Mk2. Thank god

[@tonylancer7367]

I think it's a welcome upgrade, especially with the Polyphonic Aftertouch (which is not that hard to do honestly) but I can't help but feel that the features have hit a ceiling? There was word on the interwebs that this would also have some standalone functionality, but it doesn't, so I guess then to be truly "DAW-less", you connect this to your NI Maschine MK3 and call it a day?

[@loopop]

You can use it as a simple MIDI controller DAW-less, but no fancy arp/scale/chord/maschine screens/features for now

[@hypnoticGrill]

​@@loopopthank you for your review. It is as allways thorough and fun to watch. The product , i have to admit, is very strange. I just recently upgraded from mki to mk2 because mk 1 is laking maschine+ support. To hear, that mk3 does not have Maschine Integration and never will be that tightly integrated with it due to the lack of buttons, leaves me a bit speechless. How irtitating can you be as a company? Why integrate 3rd party stuff better then your own stuff? What a missed opportunitiy. At least they brought back maschine jam Integration in maschine+. I consider the functionality upgrades somewhat disappointing, considering the previous lifespan of mk2. The differnces are marginal and where is mpe? Or cv or a s61+ standalone which learned from the maschine+ mistakes. Maschine+ and kontrol s+ who work in junction combine their processing capabilities ( maschine for Expansions and some vsts, kontrol s+ for other stuff with more focus on Instruments (all kontakt instruments, 3rd party synth etc.). And or more focus on futureproove keybeds with innovations like the osmose? All in all it seems to be far too conservative and not innovative considering the possible new features that they could have featured. This leaves lots of room for e.g a novation sl mk4 to simply eradicate the status of the s series as a to go controller. And btw, i truelly hope this thing is midi 2 capable at least.

[@djobed.utrecht]

Thank you for the review! 2 months ago I heard there was this MK3 incoming soon and finally its here. As a Maschine mk3 user, I want the Maschine 2 daw integration!! I didn't buy a S61 / S88 mk2 yet as I'd expected it sure would have the integration..... this is NOT NICE and now I still don't know what to buy :(

[@djobed.utrecht]

now checking out other vids to compare before I buy. I 'need' a good keyboard and would love the real feel, (semi)weighted and love some extra nobs on the controller like the novation sl mk3... but also love the NI integration and I've got quite a library. I like to make live shows with Maschine 2 software and love the big screen on the Kontrol mk3. if anyone can give honest advice, its very welcome! :)

[@DaveTherrien]

Excellent as always - Have you considered updating this to the latest Kontakt 8 features - tools (Tools, Leap, Loops One Shots)?

[@loopop]

Thanks and noted!

[@camilleotrakji]

Nice, but Kontakt 7 is still very primitive compared to Apple's mainstage... layering vaious sounds is still time consuming here. We should be able to easily push a specific layer an octave up or down (like we can with Apple's mainstage)

[@zerorossing207]

I'd love to know your thoughts on the feel of the keyboard and aftertouch in comparison to competitors, or even the Hydrasynth or Iridium keyboard.

[@loopop]

The feel is excellent, I show the AT action in the video. Definitely thinking of a shoot out, I'm happy to hear specific ways to test and compare.

[@metaspherz]

Thankfully, they did away with the terribly positioned volume touch strip underneath the mod wheel. In the older version, it could be accidentally touched and reduced or turned off while recording and ruin a tune in an instant.

[@yodabe882]

Don’t worry, many of the issues will be fixed in their next update, expected some time in 2073

[@eaman11]

Maybe in 2073 Komplete will be able to scale to 1440p, so you don't have to keep around a 720p 19" display to be able to use it.

[@DopamineOverload]

Real talk, and 100% agree.

[@patrikhejnar9495]

@@eaman11 xD

[@tombuur]

Excellent review. You said it had a premium feel. I hope this goes for the keys too as this is very important to me, and I will be ordering one without being able to try it first.

[@loopop]

Thanks! Yes, this is totally subjective of course, but the keys feel great too

[@marzzz1]

Same here- I ordered the S88 MK3 because my MIDIBoard bit the dust; hoping the piano-weighted keybed is decent.

[@blkrbbt]

I love you, Ziv. I’m on the fence about this, since I just got the Keylab Essentials mk 3, and this would lessen my use of the Maschine mk3, with the huge amount of overlap

[@DopamineOverload]

Keylab Essential MK3 is a dope board.

[@blkrbbt]

@@DopamineOverload I know... I love it!

[@MartinStuertzer]

It would be the perfect studio centerpiece if it was not so much tied to the Native Instruments lineup. I want to control the Ableton Macros and use it outside the Komplete Kontrol app. A plugin with a plugin. Come on.

[@MrStac]

There’s a CPU onboard but even NKS plugins have to run in the kontrol plug-in? What about channel strip plugins? Not ideal

[@sonarfreq]

Excellent comprehensive review as always, thank you so much.

[@0072gldnfngr]

Loopop!!!!!! I just knew they were going to release a new one this year lol I’m watching now. Poly AT is great, but I just hope you can use the chord engine without having to connect to KK - doubt it.. but it’s a Loopop review, so I’ll watch anyway. Lol

[@loopop]

No chords without KK for now

[@adriancox5975]

Dear Mr Loopop, Awesome Video, I'm 54 years old now and Bought a Juno 60 when I was 18 Back in 1986, which I proudly managed to Master using within a few weeks back then and thought I was a GOD! But now i'm old, and Tech has somewhat evolved exponentially, I'm not gonna lie, It's YOU that keeps me sane sorting the "Wheat from the chaff". I've got a Mk1 S88 controller for the fantastic keybed feel, and then bought a MK2 61 "BLACK EDITION" Which looks so F*****ng SEXY in my studio. I've also bought a Machine Jam, Korg Modwave+Wavestate + Hydrasyth Explorer as a direct result of watching your videos and love them all. Now I want to buy a keyboard with FULL SIZED KEYS that has polyphonic aftertouch, as my "lumi keys and Hydrasynth explorer feel a bit pony! + I have just sold a Roland Fanton G workstation which had "fader controls" and was also hoping to ditch my Arturia Keylab 49. Why didn't they put a few controllable sliders and Touch sensitive drum pads on the device, There is enough physical workspace to do this? I could have thrown away my Korg NanoKontrol2 +NanoPad2. I would have also liked to have ditched the Machine Jam too but NOOOOOO! as no intergration. Also Is it right there is No MPE control as another viewer has commented. If that is the case surely someone at NI needs to be sacked? isn't that the point of polyphonic aftertouch. Perhaps I am wrong on some of these points and I'm happy to be corrected on them. Also as I commented on earlier "The Black keys edition MK2 61 I bought is awesome. People that buy this "price point of kit" don't mind spending extra money for a SPECIAL looking keyboard. I think they should do Several versions in different colours, Can you pass this onto them please Mr LP. Thanks for reading this. Kind regards, Adrian 😃

[@loopop]

Thanks for the kind words and I'm really glad my videos are useful. No, no one should be sacked for lack of MPE - Polyphonic aftertouch is fine because that's all that this keyboard sends. MPE is needed for per channel expression beyond aftertouch (e.g. per channel pitch, per channel modulation, like Osmose or Continuum have) which this keybed doesn't have phyiscally

[@dustinkayser9691]

NI WE NEED MASCHINE COMPATIBILITY ASAP!!!!

[@eaman11]

Guys the display, the user interface is exactly the same as the old version that now costs 1/3. They didn't introduce vector widget like you have in Push, all you got is the same old 8 knobs, there's no rich interface like an ADSR with touch screen, matrix, oscilloscope, spectrum analyzer... The ONLY thing you get is a display for the 8 knobs value, like the old model, and a splash pretty graphic that has zero function. Even worse they removed all support for Maschine! And it's not a matter of a firmware update, they actually didn't put the buttons to control Maschine.

[@grproteus]

wow this looks super awesome. Would love to have the PB-MW on the top (this shows komplete disrespect to desk real estate), but the polyAT is superb!

[@Etienne.6329]

23:35 is exactly why I've stopped buying NI stuffs... I had to return the Mk2 because it was release with no velocity curves. Just release finished products...

[@solarion33]

a firmware update was released for general midi templates for other software or hardware

[@lee_at_sea]

Nice there's a poly AT keyboard, but oof on the lack of slide pots.

[@Jake-Balibari]

All this technology concentrated in a small machine is truly impressive. We could not have imagined even 20 years ago, being able to afford such an extraordinary amount of instruments for a few hundred euros. At the same time, faced with this deluge of sounds, each one as excellent as the next, it has become essential to know what you really want to compose, and therefore start with a certain level of musical mastery. Otherwise, going through banks and sound banks can kill the creativity of many. And can even be discouraging. In any case, I repeat, it is very impressive

[@trueneutral3092]

Something has to give in this industry. I respect content creators and the agreements they have with companies like Native Instruments. But the companies themselves are so tight lipped with when these products are coming out that it leaves consumers operating blind as to how to proceed with potential purchases, only to leave us looking like fools when we spend money on their previous generation's products right before they release something new. For example, this. As recently as just a couple of weeks ago, there was no information out there on this, and I inquired in multiple outlets about whether I should hold off on purchasing the previous generation in order to invest in the new generation. Everyone's tight-lipped about it, and in the end, the consumer loses.

[@vin.25]

Totally agree. I purchased a Yamaha P series piano because I just wanted a nice Keybed and sensed that getting a S88 mk2 was a bad idea given the age of the product and price. Glad I was right and I still have a old S25mk1 (they should bring this back) and I’m happy along with my push.

[@trueneutral3092]

this is the dirty little secret nobody ever talks about, and everyone pretends like they don't know this or that, but in reality, these companies form alliances with youtubers under some pretty unethical pretenses that are very hard to stand up to.. so, i get it. but, this happens way too much and the least a company can do is be courteous to loyal customers by giving tentative release dates on new products, especially ones that are as easy to produce as midi controllers.

[@loopop]

@@trueneutral3092 I have to protest the "unethical pretense alliance with KZbinrs" bit - companies reach out a few weeks prior and say "we'll tell you a secret if you keep it secret until date x" - I don't think there's something unethical about that. However, I do agree that it would be appropriate if companies would announce a launch date well in advance or at the very least a discontinuation of the current generation. Yamaha is doing it now quite nicely with the Montage being discontinued well in advance of the new one. I did notice NI discounting the MK2 a while back before this was launched, but discount sales aren't always an indication of an upcoming MK+1 coming.

[@trueneutral3092]

@@loopop it's more about the vendors than the youtubers, and i know your ethics are solid loopop. and i know your hands are tied in most cases, especially when you're asked. and i do believe you consider all the perspectives in cases like these, hence why i shift most if not all of the blame away from you, in particular, i'm just so incredibly tired of feeling like a fool right after i spend my hard earned money on something expensive, only to have an unexpected, out of nowhere launch of the exact product line i was holding out for. this is literally the 4th or 5th time this has happened to me in the last 4 years, and maybe im just guessing wrong as to when the products are coming out, or maybe i spend too much money on gear, or perhaps i am overestimating product lifecycles for each product line revision, but, to be frank with you loopop, ive had enough of this specific thing about the industry, as this has literally cost me money in the thousands of dollars, and puts me on a tough spot to sell said equipment to start to recover it.

[@loopop]

@@trueneutral3092 I totally agree and it has happened to me plenty of times too. What I do is try and look at the past update schedule and infer from that. With iPhones for example it’s easy because they’re consistent. Seems like NI has been relatively consistent here too btw - with around at least 5 years between updates. But it’s not always that clear for sure

[@jloiben12]

One day they will learn that there needs to be faders. Probably by Mk 46 they will figure this out

[@new.romance999]

No need for faders. We need more big fat knobs to scroll through presets and recicled libraries.

[@Clarity-808]

I prefer the knobs.

[@Yahoomediaclub]

Na u don’t need faders at all.. u have access to all the mixer chanel’s and encoder facility’s u could ever need.. Shame tho they have removed Maschine functionality

[@Yahoomediaclub]

Just a shame they have removed the Maschine functionality

[@GrayGhostDog1]

I'll be on the standby for both Novation and Arturia flagship controllers... so far, it's Korg's new Keystage controllers that has a decent level of support(PolyAT, MIDI 2.0, MPE) at the moment.

[@sonarfreq]

Had an email from NI recently stating the following... and as a MK1 owner myself, more than a little disappointed to be fair! "We’re writing to let you know we will be ending software support for MK1 of the Komplete Kontrol S-Series keyboard controller on October 12, 2023. Starting with the upcoming release of Komplete Kontrol 3.0, future NI software releases will no longer be compatible with the MK1. Please do not attempt an update to version 3.0 when it is released on October 12. You will still be able to use your MK1 keyboard with Komplete Kontrol 2.9 (or lower), which includes Apple Silicon and VST3 support. However, we will no longer maintain older versions of Komplete Kontrol and cannot guarantee they will be supported by future versions of your computer’s operating system."

[@keithdunwoody1302]

Yeah, MAJOR freaking headache this is.

[@bentropy]

Really helpful, super clear and entertaining review, as usual, Zev. I've always wanted an NKS compatible kb, because i own the Komplete SW bundle and various other NKS compatible plugins (eg Arturia collections) which I'd love to get more use out of (and an expressive physical interface would go a long way)... ...And i've always wanted a polytouch kb (hoped to get a Hydrasynth at some point, in part for that capability). So this looks very attractive. I don't personally care about Machine integration (don't use or own it), but I don't want to need a separate device to control Ableton Live (can't afford one of these Kontrol Smk3 AND e.g. a Push). I don't have a pile of cash that i need to spend on a keyboard or controller right now anyway, so I guess I'll wait and see if Ableton support becomes a meaningful part of this device's MO? Question: Any recommendations for an alternative 'buyer's strategy' or alternative from a competitor? IIRC you don't mention any (or at least many) alternatives by manufacturer/model name. What are the top competitors against these latest NI KBs? How do, for example, Arturia's controller/KBs fare in comparison, leaving aside the NI-specific depth of integration, just in terms of general functionality as a controller for DAWs, plug-ins, as a keyboard and as a total package? Any other specific standout competing alternatives? rhanks again!

[@loopop]

Thanks for the kind words! I actually do mention the Novation SL MK3 specifically as the most relevant competitor. Arturia's Keylab MK2 also has some advantages, though it was released a while ago, but in terms of screens that show you parameter values per knob in Ableton Live, it's the SL MK3 is the only keyboard that does that, that I'm aware of.

[@bentropy]

@@loopop thanks! I have my hands on an SLmk2. I wonder if i can still use it with Live, similar to the Mk3. Guess I'll find out (or waste 2.5 hrs trying!)

[@sophiepooks2174]

I really like this upgrade, very good looking and professional, a shame you can no longer use the Maschine with it as I love the workflow because it's so familiar, also for those of us who use different DAWs like Reason, Cubase or whatever it kind of sucks if this is optimized only for use with Ableton and we would have to fork out another grand and a half to buy that too.

[@harbourphotography2152]

You can’t use Maschine 2 with it?

[@willmcelroy6376]

It is good looking, but I’m dissapointed. I expected more From NI.

[@jarkokoo]

It's not optimised for Ableton Live. They support at least Live, Logic, Garage Band, Cubase, Nuendo, Pro Tools, Bitwig and Studio One, right out of the box, with similar features. Not sure about Reaper though, but all of the aforementioned are supported out of the box. But the thing that it doesn't, at least for now, support Maschine in any way is a HUGE minus in my books.

[@BinuralOdyssey]

Let's just take a moment to acknowledge that loopop has a incredibly giant brain.

[@loopop]

Thank you I'm not sure about that but I do have a hard time finding fitting hats

[@thenotoriouscam1]

This is definitely marketed towards newcomers

[@stormfate2108]

I was sure this was gonna happen since i got s61 mk2 ine month ago lol! Other than the better screen and the metallic knobs i dont see huge benefits vs the mk2

[@SpyderBlackOfficial]

I agree. Im not seeing a huge leap forward just yet.

[@darclinc]

Same here. I was waiting for that ‘aha’ moment, but it never came. After touch is nice, but I don’t need it.

[@TheJonHolstein]

tabbed parameters, is quite a big thing, if they don't add that to the Mk2, to exand the number or HW units with that to get developers to make use of it. Poly AT, is nice. Additional pedal inputs, I would appreciate as someone who has undrstood the potential of using pedals. But the build in processing unit, may prove to be the biggest difference, depending on that it will enable in the future.

[@certifiedbeatz]

🔥 review I originally gave it a thumbs down watched the whole review well done.. I'm going to purchase just to demo for myself then return 😅😅

[@0072gldnfngr]

21:21 here, almost a year later, they’ve released an update that allows you to map midi to external devices in standalone. I also seen a response from them on IG saying Play Assist is confirmed for standalone.. so maybe the next update? Hopefully not another year. 😅

[@shpongled587]

You helped me realize I have a synth addiction which probably saved my life so thank you!

[@roman2374]

Considering Ableton just released the "move", I am just wondering if there will ever be an Ableton Keyboard with built-in plug in control,. Basically a push replacing the pads with a keyboard. This looks like the next best thing currently..

[@loopop]

This actually can't control device parameters in Ableton Live unfortunately (it can in Komplete Kontrol and Kontakt)

[@lowlowseesee]

damn they still gave the classic view, hell yea

[@georged822]

Does this mean Novation SL MK4 will be next?

[@paulammon9746]

super exited about this. gonna pre order the Komplete s88 MK3. does anyone know if they are able to send out the products right after the release or are there gonna be waiting times for the shipping?

[@koreanfriedchildren]

I'll keep my MK2 and Maschine as a separate station for Maschine, then one day I'll get the Kontrol S61 mk3 when at least all of Komplete (15) is NKS2 compatible and more third party plugins are NKS2 compatible. I predict it will take a year at least from now.

[@shanithezimhoni]

Cant wait for arturia to absolutely smash this with the new keylab versions

[@DopamineOverload]

They're already out... but yeah, I dig on the Keylab Essential MK3, quite a bit. Very nice board. Lots of customizability.