Lord of the Rings Bk1.Ch02.Pt03 » The Shadow of the Past part 3 » About That Ring, Frodo...

[@ZephyrOptional]

I totally back you on the cell phone technology = ring “magic” analogy! I think Tolkien would be horrified by cell phone technology but like the audio tape recorder, he might still see its potential for good depending on its user. Instantaneous global communication will ether save us or destroy us, depending on its user.

[@TolkienRoad]

🙌 It's such a fitting analogy, far more fitting I think than the atomic bomb. Of course, the spectre of AI is next. And yes, all technology, when wielded morally and ethically, may have a good purpose, but in the hands of most, such devices are a danger to the wielder and those around them...

[@PilgrimofIthilien]

@@TolkienRoad I am rereading TTT and came across this quote which fits this discussion quite nicely: 'No,' said Gandalf. 'Nor by Saruman. It is beyond his art, and beyond Sauron's too. The palantíri came from beyond Westernesse from Eldamar. The Noldor made them. Fëanor himself, maybe, wrought them, in days so long ago that the time cannot be measured in years. But there is nothing that Sauron cannot turn to evil uses. Alas for Saruman! It was his downfall, as I now perceive. Perilous to us all are the devices of an art deeper than we possess ourselves. Yet he must bear the blame. Fool! to keep it secret, for his own profit. No word did he ever speak of it to any of the Council. We had not yet given thought to the fate of the palantíri of Gondor in its ruinous wars. By Men they were almost forgotten. Even in Gondor they were a secret known only to a few; in Arnor they were remembered only in a rhyme of lore among the Dúnedain.' The key line I'd like to draw attention to is "Perilous to us all are the devices of an art deeper than we possess ourselves." To your point, John, this seems to be very much what we are grappling with in terms of AI.

[@beerye9331]

The Office Space reference, Nice!

[@TolkienRoad]

Yeeeeaaahhhh... 🙌

[@Enerdhil]

Gandalf tells Frodo, "The lesser rings were only essays in the craft before it was full grown, and to the Elven smiths, they were but trifles - yet still to my mind dangerous for mortals. But the Great Rings, the Rings of Power, they were perilous." This passage is confusing.🤔 Twenty Rings of Power were made. The first 16 were made by the Gwaith-i-Mirdain around S.A. 1500. Celebrimbor made the Three Elven Rings of Power around S.A.1590. Sauron made the One Ring to Rule Them All in S.A.1600. "The Great Rings" is plural which means more than just the One Ring. Moreover, they are "perilous," which means that the Elven Rings are not among the "Great Rings. Now, the sixteen Rings of Power were considered "trifles" by the Gwaith-i-Mirdain, yet some of those Rings have to be numbered among the "Great Rings" Gandalf mentions. So which ones were "lesser" and which ones were "Great?" This is very confusing. 😵‍💫

[@PilgrimofIthilien]

My reading is that the Rings of Power are a subset of a larger group of rings in general, and that the "lesser rings" exclude the Rings of Power. I refer to the timeline of the Second Age which only states when the Rings of Power (including the three Elven Rings) are crafted, and does not explicitly state when the Elves of Eregion started producing rings in general (including the lesser rings), which would have preceded the creation of the Rings of Power (the Great Rings) given how Gandalf puts it in the line quoted. If there is somewhere in the lore that actually suggests when the lesser rings were created, that would be very helpful!

[@Enerdhil]

@@PilgrimofIthilien Yes, I think you are right about the lesser rings being separate from the Rings of Power. Did Gandalf really see any of these so-called "trifles?" Did he see someone disappear when they put on one of them? I think Gandalf is just guessing those lesser rings existed and guessing they could make a Hobbit disappear. I think he was wrong because the One Ring made Hobbits disappear, so a lesser ring would probably do nothing special.