Loss of engine power and the (im)possible turn - with Doug and Martin

[@dougm2745]

Whenever I see him on one of your videos it is required viewing. He knows his stuff.

[@martinpauly]

Yes, he does! 👍 - Martin

[@HootisGarage]

A realistic look at single engine failure. Not like the ASI/AOPA knuckleheads video. Thanks Martin!

[@emergencylowmaneuvering7350]

Cant see his videos doing Engine Fails on take off on the runway to prove he knows that. Where are they?

[@LTVoyager]

Interesting comment about the power-off 180 and commercial license. I learned to fly in 1977 from an old school instructor and EVERY landing we made was a power-off 180. That is simply how he flew his airplanes (he was the airport operator, CFI, A&P and a DE) and how he taught his students. When every landing is done that way, it makes off airport landings much easier as you have a fairly good feel for how far you can glide at the moment the engine quits. Pilots should not need a commercial license to learn this skill.

[@outwiththem]

10:09 Yes we did simulated Engine quit After take of. 1996. First at 2,500 agl, when coming back from cross country flights. Then on 4,700 feet long runway with about 10 knots headwind. We on Cherokees, did Turnbacks from 600 agl partial power, and 700-800 agl idle power Turbacks. My CFI was the CFI of EmergencyLowManeuvering channel here on youtube. He had 4 engine fails on take off before and knew those emergencies well.

[@fishhisy]

I lost my engine in a mooney after take off, I was 100 AGL, I was able to land on a highway overpass and I rear-ended a Lexus.

[@martinpauly]

Glad nothing worse happened to you then. - Martin

[@davidcole333]

The tribute to George Preddy and the Tuskegee Airman is 100% pure class. What a great man.

[@andrewhamilton4757]

I wish I could be taught by Doug....such experience is priceless

[@ginofederici4780]

Martin, I just discovered your videos with Doug. Thank you for bringing his knowledge to You Tube where we can all partake. Absolute Gold!

[@martinpauly]

Thank you - I am glad these videos are helpful for you! - Martin

[@williamoddo9199]

Martin, you put the right guy on the screen!

[@Nacwing]

Can you do one of these sessions once a month. This information is Gold! I watch the twin video you guys did once every few months.

[@bobcfi1306]

Excellent. Thanks Doug. And thanks Martin for bringing this to KZbin

[@martinpauly]

You are welcome, Bob! - Martin

[@itsme_Willow]

Love the comment "people don't rise to the occasion they sink to the level of their most recent training". Brilliant and true.

[@jonathanchristman8488]

Very good info Martin. Doug has such an amazing knowledge of aviation.

[@martinpauly]

Thank you, Jon. - Martin

[@tn8402]

Every minute of this video is pure gold! I’m watching it again several times and taking notes. Thank you!!!

[@martinpauly]

You are welcome! - Martin

[@TheFirePilot]

Another great one Martin. The factual data and the way that Doug presents it is a deep dive but easy to follow.

[@donaldcarpenter5328]

Future pilots SHOULD watch these videos. Never can have too much info

[@martinpauly]

Thank you, Sir. - Martin

[@dougdouglass1248]

Idle thrust is not zero thrust. I'm glad to see someone finally say this. I've commented this several times on impossible turn videos. Thank you.

[@martinpauly]

You are right, Doug - it makes a big difference. - Martin

[@mikah4051]

I don't fly an airplane but I appreciate the professionalism and safety awareness topics covered in this presentation and am I'm sure smart people will watch it several times.

[@Zelig2Cents]

EDIT: I've added one more question to my post. Wow! What a great bunch of lessons! I had my own agenda hoping for a specific piece of info to be talked about (minimum acceptable AGL altitude in a Bonanza for a return to the airport with an engine failure during takeoff) that I began watching it by trying to play the video at 2x speed to more quickly get to that part. However, what actually was talked about was so interesting and dense in content, that not only did I have to go back to regular playback speed, I also had to keep going over the same comments again and again, so I could take good notes. Mr. Rozendaal is an encyclopedia of aviation wisdom! Knowledge is great, but wisdom is better and he certainly has it! As Mr. Rozendaal explained, because much more of the flight is spent in cruise, the majority of our training time should likewise be spent on engine-out procedures during cruise, which can also include the part of cruise that occurs during takeoff, so long as "high key" altitude has been attained. The only 2 details I would have loved to have seen addressed are: 1) Approximately what IS "high key" AGL altitude for a Bonanza? 2) Although 99% of the times, ANY strategy would be safer than trying to execute the "impossible turn"; there WILL be airports where the only alternatives to the "impossible turn" - due to population density - are flying into the side of a building or on top of a house. It strikes me that in a situation like that, although attempting the "impossible turn"... MIGHT result in fatalities to pilot and passengers; flying into the side of a building would make fatalities even more likely for all on the aircraft, but would additionally exposes those in the building to being killed. In a situation like that, wouldn't attempting the "impossible turn" be the "lesser of two evils"? However remote that scenario might be, does it not make sense to practice the "impossible turn" (at a safe altitude) to at least be aware of what that minimum altitude should be in order to attempt the impossible turn? The more altitude densities, passenger configurations, load scenarios practiced, the better of course. I pose this question while being in full agreement with Mr. Rozendaal that however much value there is in knowing that/those altitude(s) and training for it; he is certainly right that much more time should be spent training for procedures when "high key" or near "high key" altitude is what we have to work with. ADDITIONAL QUESTION 3) This question relates specifically to a set of circumstances where attempting a return to the airport poses a risk of fatality to the fewest number of people, i.e., an airport near a highly developed and populated area. It occurred to me that for an aircraft like the Bonanza, the climb rate you choose (Vₓ or Vᵧ... or something in between) might be very critical for minimizing risks if there is an engine failure during takeoff. I feel like there are 2 foundational considerations to this question. One is that, at Vᵧ, a high performance airplane like the Bonanza is substantially further away from the airport by the time it gets to 1000' AGL than say, a Piper Cub. This means it also has more distance to cover to make it BACK to the airfield. The second issue is that a Bonanza probably requires a much higher "High Key" AGL altitude than that of a Piper Cub. If the Bonanza is routinely taken off at Vₓ, the advantage is that it's CLOSER to the airport at any given time of engine failure than it would be with a Vᵧ takeoff. On the other hand, it'sALSO at a lower altitude in that same amount of time, so the severity of consequences is probably higher if the only option is to turn back. On which side of that equation should a Bonanza pilot err? To get the lowest total risk factor, which detail is more important in that risk equation? Less time exposed to the danger, or lower severity of consequences? Vₓ or Vᵧ? Or is there some better balance in between the two? More simply put, if a Bonanza pilot is taking off from an airport that is surrounded by buildings in all directions, is there a 'V' speed that's best, in order to have the lowest overall risk factor? I hope that's helpful feedback and thanks again to Mr. Rozendaal and to you also Martin for such great content!!

[@guntherbohlen4939]

Situational awareness is so critical in dangerous situations and a special skill to aquire. Aviation, traffic with car or bike, riding, mountain hiking and climbing, etc. you name it. And is comes with practice and training. Thank you Martin, again a Great video.

[@martinpauly]

Vielen Dank, Günther. Herzliche Grüße nach Deutschland! - Martin

[@edsonherald3720]

Very Grateful For Captain Doug Rosendaal's Master Class ! Best Regards ! Ed

[@emergencylowmaneuvering7350]

Better practice first The Flyover Teardrop Turnback. At level flight at Vglide speed and 1,000 agl, fly over a highway, pick an easy to see spot, fly over it, then do a Teardrop Turn to fly over again in opposite direction. Then do a teardrop again. Do 3 plus until you do them very well. Then fly over doing a Hook Turnback instead of a Teardrop Turnback. Do a few Fly Over Tunrbacks Teardrop then Hook Turnback kinds. That way you will understand Turnbacks better BEFORE doing them at airport. At Airport do them partial power first from turning crosswind. Last ones nose down power off 800 agl after take off. Ignorance is not the solution, Ignorance is the problem. I used to teach all that in my 1990's CFI years and know 3 pilots plus me that saved from crash on houses doing partial power turnbacks. One of them he did C172 w 3 on board from 300 agl only. No accidents we had. You do Turnbacks on Flyovers, Box Canyon Turns, Circling Approaches and of course, LOTOT and EFATO Turnbacks too. 5 PLACES. Many accidents from pilots ignorant of turnbacks even if experts on IFR or Mild Maneuvers.

[@blueskies8834]

Finally, a truth teller about the impossible turn!

[@terrancestodolka4829]

He has a great deep understanding of being a good pilot. That he can explain and add that to others by his telling them the best thing to do at that point. So I do like his ideas about Flying and thinking with a plan so that we can deal with a situation when that happens...

[@coreyandnathanielchartier3749]

I appreciate your humble, no-hype approach to this subject. I have seen too many 'impossible turn' articles where the participants seemed to be more interested in lauding their own piloting skills instead of focusing on the rest of us who don't have the experience or to some degree, the nerves and skill to pull this off in real time, on our first try. Many have been lost in this grey area. Also, the general discussion about off -airport landings from cruise are good , helpful reminders to always keep that possibility in the back of your mind.

[@martinpauly]

Thanks for the kind words. Yes, loss of power up high happens more frequently than right after take-off, so we felt that was worth a few thoughts. - Martin

[@dyske-]

Thank you for putting together this detailed discussion on a complicated subject. I appreciate that Doug was very articulatei in explaining his logics using realistic scenarios. He clearly has thought through numerous possible scenarios and have put time to verbalize his knowledge into easy to understand language for the newer pilots like myself.

[@georgestuart2483]

Great video as usual Martin. Doug’s aviation explanations are always so clear and helpful. I did chuckle a little bit when you mentioned those dastardly teleGRAPH poles! I’m sure you meant utility poles in general as telegraph poles have been gone for years. I was surprised to learn you can still send telegrams, but they now generally go over the internet. As a retired ATT engineer I couldn’t resist teasing you!

[@martinpauly]

Now that I think about it, yes, that is kind of funny, George! 😁 Regards, Martin

[@etudigger3340]

I'm not a pilot but I took lessons many years ago. Had to give it up, but I still miss it. Many of Doug's thoughts make a lot of sense. Just like in the military, train like you fight, and fight like you train. Practice, practice, practice. Another great video, Martin.

[@martinpauly]

Thank you. - Martin

[@danielbeards6259]

I love your videos Martin, but when you bring Doug they become a jewel.

[@ryanberges7568]

EXACTLY!

[@GGBSystems]

Great one, Martin. Another one of your videos from which I learned something. Very much appreciated and please pass on my thanks to Doug.

[@martinpauly]

Thanks, Jeff. Flying is all about continuous learning - glad this video helped a little. - Martin

[@techinvestigator1]

Best gospel ever.. Thanks Doug and Martin for sharing this valuable info!!!

[@martinpauly]

You are welcome!

[@Airplane_Willy]

This is a really great discussion on very important issues that get glossed over by a lot of pilots. Doug is probably about as good as anyone out there to have some extremely experienced insight.

[@martinpauly]

Thanks, Craig. Any pilot would be fortunate to learn from Doug. - Martin

[@snowman100]

Am just now starting my sport pilot certificate she every time you do an interview with Doug remind how much of situational awareness I really need to have and not get comfortable even if my CFI says.."you did great.. you are good at this" .. and that it didn't matter what phase of training am in constant awareness could save my life and those on ground and not taking it for granted just because am doing it for hobby and not career. The high level of attention and awareness is the same for fun or job

[@martinpauly]

The airplane doesn’t know if the pilot gets paid to fly or not. That has nothing to do with flying professionally. Good luck for completing your certificate, Dre. - Martin

[@chrisaviator2337]

Great Video Martin and thank you and Doug! From almost 30 years as a Flight instructor and one off-Airport landing in a DR-400 with an engine-failure I totally agree. Greetings from your home-country 🇩🇪

[@martinpauly]

Vielen Dank, Chris. Herzliche Grüße nach Deutschland! - Martin

[@dermick]

Great interview! Martin, you really know how to keep the conversation going and extract all the nuggets of wisdom from the people you talk to. Gut gemacht!

[@martinpauly]

Thanks! - Martin

[@gtr1952]

Thanks much for producing this Martin, and a huge thanks to Doug for all his sage knowledge and advice!! I have learned a lot from these sessions and I greatly appreciate them! I could listen to Doug till the cows come home! 8) --gary PS, The US interstate system was designed to have 1 mile of straight road per every XX miles (forgot the number) specifically for landing airplanes. It was done just after WW2, in case we were attacked and needed runways to defend the country. I believe it was President Eisenhower who did it? More info if you Google it. 8) --gtr

[@gabrielprieto6606]

Martin, it's an excellent video. I have learned a lot with Doug. He is very clear. Congratulations!

[@martinpauly]

Thank you, Gabriel. - Martin

[@asarangan]

Great video Martin. One point worth mentioning is that GA pilots rarely do a pretakeoff briefing. We should know what the takeoff power should be, and abort if we don't see that when we push the throttle in. If not airborne by 50% of the runway, abort the takeoff. Verbally go over what to do if the engine quits below 1000 ft, and what we consider to be the safe altitude for a 180 turn back. We can't figure out all these out during an emergency.

[@martinpauly]

Yes. We do talk about a pre-departure briefing in this video, and even link at that point in time to another one dedicated to the topic. - Martin

[@tomcorwine3091]

My CFI does a pre-takeoff briefing on every departure.

[@Jeffrey-Flys]

My new CFI.. Video explains it soon on my daughter’s channel @fatherdaughterflights… insists on briefing abort/engine loss and “other options” on every flight. Our first lesson was a “did not depart.” But I logged l2 Hobbs of taxi! 😎

[@Joe_Not_A_Fed]

High key training is another good reason to fly gliders. Every landing is a power off landing and you learn exactly where your glider has to be to make a landing. You don't aim for the runway. In our case, it was 1000' at the start of downwind. if you make that, you make the landing.

[@denizaygun2514]

Martin, another lovely video . Every videos of yours that I watched, it made me a better pilot. Thank you..

[@martinpauly]

Thank you, Deniz - hearing that makes me very happy. - Martin

[@christophergeorge6581]

HI Martin another great video regarding safety, many years ago engine failure in 960 wooden wing Mooney m20A returning at night flying from Ottawa airport during instrument training to home airport 25 miles away.climbed to 8000 going west about half was engine quit, the instructor stated he would take control I stated no my aircraft, I had 300 hours of glider flying so position the aircraft over my home airport with circling approch and landed safely. I was a bit high so did a side slip landed about one third down the run way. Knowing the L over D of your aircraft very important from a safety perspective. Keep up the great work Christopher Ottawa Canada

[@martinpauly]

Sounds like a perfectly executed engine-out approach and landing, Christopher. Very glad nothing worse happened. Were you able to determine the cause of the engine failure? - Martin

[@christophergeorge6581]

@@martinpauly yes broken crank shaft this happened long time ago 1967 this was my last single engine after that all aircraft after that were multi engines twin camaches, senacas then aerostars. Christopher Ottawa Canada

[@msstaceystento]

Thank you so much for all this great content, I've been watching all these videos ❤

[@martinpauly]

Thank you so much! - Martin

[@gregarmstrong8675]

What a great instructor. Thanks for sharing.

[@martinpauly]

Thank you, Greg. - Martin

[@GZA036]

Loved hearing the familiar Doug-isms after watching the Multiengine ground schools so many times

[@CentralStateMower]

Excellent video and discussion on risks and engine failure. According to the AOPA, engine failure is the 3rd leading cause of fatal GA aircraft accidents. If you look at even small FAA part 135 Operators, they generally won't be flying passengers for hire in piston single engine airplanes for that reason.

[@blakergil]

Another great informative video Martin. I could listen to Doug for hours. My “home dome” here in DFW is KADS which has simply horrible landing options for runway 15 departures. Runway 33 is better but not neither are great. Oddly looking back over the last 10 years of multiple instruction flights in and out of Addison I honestly don’t recall a single instructor ever briefing on possible landing/controlled crash sites. It’s probably because there aren’t any and we’d rather not talk about it. I’m going to take Doug’s advice and do a more exhaustive study of the ‘ahead of the wings and into the wind’ area from my airport. Once I’m actively instructing one of the things I’ll implement is to introduce some sort of emergency situation on each and every flight. “You just lost an engine/you just lost your radios/you passenger just threw up all over your instrument panel... you get the idea. Keep up the great work Martin.

[@martinpauly]

Addison is indeed a difficult place for this. The fewer the options are, the more important it is to study and understand them ahead of time. And in some cases, the right thing to do may be to shift our focus from saving ourselves to at least not hurting people on the ground. As Doug said, we have a moral obligation to protect them. - Martin

[@franpiper9399]

thanks you for this video,, from argentina,, i have felt that adrenaline in my surgeries and it is true how everything becomes a vision tunnel in an emergency...only training and knowledge can save you

[@martinpauly]

Thanks for the comment - yes, training and knowledge are both important, in many fields. - Martin

[@AaronWbirdman]

Thank you again Doug and Martin. Invaluable discussions!!!!

[@ryanberges7568]

Very important video on a topic I have thought about a lot.

[@gerryortiz7276]

Great video. Stick and Rudder by Wolfgang Langewiesche is a great book that discusses this matter in depth. Aviation has several paradoxes such as to the idea of landing in airplane you have to prevent it from landing and in regards to an engine fail to keep the airplane flying you have to point it to the earth. Also to survive an engine fail you have to purposely attempt to crash the airplane in a sense. For the most part we are basically left with two options we must come to terms with once we are presented with an engine failure do we wanna spin in or crash pick one.

[@martinpauly]

A great book indeed!

[@ryanmcfarland6086]

Excellent Masterclass! Thank you Doug and Thank you Martin!

[@martinpauly]

Thanks, Ryan. - Martin

[@albertobatista776]

Hi, captain Martin. My name is Charles and I am speaking from Brazil. I am a phenom 300 pilot and I found your channels. How it is important this kind of discussion about loss of engine in many situation. Good bless you and continue for us. I will share your channel to my colleague

[@martinpauly]

Hello Captain Charles. Thank you for the comment, and enjoy flying the Phenom 300 - a wonderful airplane! - Martin

[@redlywaxer]

Great talk. I'm learning a lot from experienced pilots!

[@martinpauly]

Thank you - glad to hear you found this useful. - Martin

[@Coops777]

Thankyou very much for an excellent discussion. Great points made.

[@MN-bq1hu]

Great video - thanks Martin!

[@martinpauly]

My pleasure! - Martin

[@christinewunder1672]

Thanks for helping me to be a better pilot cause I’m alway learning!

[@martinpauly]

Glad you found it valuable, Christine. - Martin

[@lowoveraviation3650]

A great video for us fellow pilots Martin. Doug has a very professional way of describing the in's and out's. I would add that pilots would benefit from getting a few flights in a glider to learn about trading airspeed for altitude and lowering the panic factor when the engine quits. My first license was for gliders and the training still helps me today, 32 years later. Also when is Doug going to take you for a ride in that beautiful Mustang?? :-)

[@billr8667]

Few instructors I've flown with in 35 years) incorporated much of this stuff into their teachings.

[@martinpauly]

Glad we could help fill that gap a little bit, Bill. - Martin

[@billr8667]

@@martinpauly I'm not flying anymore, but there are lots of newbies being taught by instructors who didn't learn this stuff themselves. I suggest you consider taking this to the Air Safety Institute.

[@msteele3199]

More videos with Doug please.

[@martinpauly]

We have some ideas... stay tuned! - Martin

[@cjswa6473]

Doug has the talking stick in hand😊 Doug has always been on a higher plane. Greetings from Spicewood TX My memory checklist for takeoff is spell GIFT-CCR for the rock band. G..... everything gas I ....set and check instruments F... flaps for Take off or up T...trim set correctly. C...controls,free and correct C....canapy..all doors shut R...runup Good to use when owner says he "knows" his airplane

[@cappy9867]

Excellent video...Doug is a great resource! You recruited well Martin!

[@claudiocody]

Very very very good video, high quality content. Thanks to both!

[@martinpauly]

Thank you - glad you enjoyed it! FYI - it so happens there'll be another video with Doug Rozendaal posting later today, about the downwind turn myth. - Martin

[@claudiocody]

@@martinpauly Thanks! I'll watch for sure :)

[@wicked1172]

Thank you Martin and Doug.

[@emergencylowmaneuvering7350]

Engine fails on take off are mostly partial. They happen often. Full power stress on engines. I have a playlist of EFATO examples with or without turnbacks to airport.

[@capt_yeti]

Very informative explanations of deadstick landing. Thank you

[@mishmish1968]

Another great discussion, in a very important subject, thanks a lot for sharing this knowledge, all the best.

[@martinpauly]

Glad you liked this one! - Martin

[@mishmish1968]

@@martinpauly Very much. 🌹

[@freepilot7732]

26:25 I could be wrong but it seems to me engine quit more often then during cruise. If this is true, why? If this is true, what can we do to lower the risk of engine failure? Perhaps we need to slowly and smartly increase the throttle allowing the engine to Rev up slowly.

[@paratyshow]

👍☑️ Excelent video Martin & Doug, so many lifesaving strategies very well explained.

[@aquaticguy88]

I’m a flight instructor and I teach many of these concepts on the ground and in the air with my students. I very much appreciate this video and how the material is presented. I’m saving it in my archive to share with students. I had a question with the handful of times it was mentioned to practice at altitude by pulling the mixture. While valuable to assess a more realistic sink rate versus idle throttle, etc, I wanted to make sure that wasn’t an error in speech like it was for the power off 180° you edited. Thinking about it from a risk assessment standpoint in a training environment, it obviously increases the chance we could truly have an engine failure if the mixture cable breaks and is unable to provide fuel back to the engine. With enough altitude that risk could be worth it if you have adequate landing points within glide. Just seeking clarification. Thanks again for the video!

[@martinpauly]

We actually intended to say "pull the mixture" there. I am not suggesting everyone needs to do this; the point was that all the people claiming a turnback is no big deal because they have done it successfully with the power at idle might rethink their position if they actually flew one with NO power instead of IDLE power. It is possible to experience and quantify the difference safely over an airport in gliding distance of a runway. And it is also possible to misjudge the glide and land off-airport if the engine doesn't restart. I'll let you be the judge of how likely that is and whether the prospect of discovery is worth the risk. Regards, Martin

[@aquaticguy88]

Thank you for the reply. I’ve since tested the wings level best glide sink rates while solo in a C172. My idle power best glide sink rate was 600 fpm versus a no power best glide sink rate of 650-700 fpm. A fairly subtle but noticeable difference. Thanks again for the reply and video!

[@beno177]

Can’t say that I can agree with everything here. BUT….training is always the key to sustainable flying. So often we only practice during a flight review. We need to carve out time to practice often. How many times have you flown to an airport say 400 miles away and in the middle of the flight do a practice engine out and go to an airport. We are in such a rush to get to the destination that we seldom take the time to really dig in and practice. Very great work and gets one thinking about proficiency. Anyone can fly …but with proficiency is a different story.

[@billlyl3725]

This was excellent, absolutely top notch. Thank you to you both.

[@jetdoctn]

Great video Martin as always very informative. Sure hope to get to meet Doug one day. One thing that wasn't mentioned that I learned flying a T34 or any aircraft with a constant speed prop is to get the prop control to full low pitch, its like releasing the emergency brake and really cuts down some drag. May make the difference in some turn back or 180 degree turn situations.

[@martinpauly]

Good point on the prop control, Mike. We did not go into how to achieve best glide performance in this video - not that it's not important, but it's somewhat separate from the topics we discussed, and of course also aircraft-dependent. Come join us for a Third Thursday sometime to meet Doug! Best regards, Martin

[@emergencylowmaneuvering7350]

On "The Turnaround Maneuver". YOU TURN AROUND THE AIRPORT. That means he crashed AFTER TURNAROUND MANEUVER" and could not complete it, stalled it before the runway start area. So it was An Impossible Turnaround, not An Impossible Turnback. Those are two different maneuvers. Never confuse needed maneuvers. A Turnaround is not A Turnback. On the Turnback you dont turnaround anything, you just go to the closest runway on side if, or behind you if altitude and speed to do a 270 degrees of turn. Many accidents are A Turnaround. The ones that dont know Turnbacks call them A TURNBACK, when it was A Turnaround. Different maneuvers they are. I used to teach them both in my 1990's CFi years..

[@patcicerchi]

Love this guy!

[@billcowdin9127]

Terrific Video!

[@martinpauly]

Thank you, Bill! - Martin

[@waelbeheiry6056]

thanks for bringing such a very important topic. you are the best. thanks again.

[@bentonbee1]

Thanks so much Doug and Martin

[@davidhall1779]

awesome presentation, thank you both so much.

[@marcobitran2244]

Very informative, thank you

[@martinpauly]

Thanks, Marco. - Martin

[@KPMACHINE1]

Hey great info. I’m getting my first plane in a couple weeks. I’m gonna get really familiar with all these options at my airport. Thanks!!

[@imatruckdotcom]

Great info, thanks for sharing.

[@martinpauly]

You are welcome, Aaron. - Martin

[@martinrenschler4046]

Thanks for sharing! Makes me think whether it's better to climb one round in the pattern taking off from airports that offer zero areas to put it down after takeoff. At least if there is any kind of change done to the airplane, like maintenance.

[@B25Flyer]

That is a great strategy.

[@martinpauly]

I agree, Martin, that can be a good way to buy yourself additional options. - Martin

[@pumpkindog1]

Well done. Thanks

[@martinpauly]

Thanks

[@doncarlson8391]

Great information and discussion. Thanks.

[@skycop56]

Great info for all pilots, thanks.

[@martinpauly]

My pleasure, John. - Martin

[@LTVoyager]

After sound training and practice, the best way to shorten both the startle time and the decision time is to plan for the engine failure before takeoff. Taking into account wind, aircraft load, density altitude/prevailing performance, terrain around the airport, etc., I try to decide before takeoff what I will do if an engine fails at less than 1,000’ AGL. If you have already decided if you will turn back to the airport, land straight ahead, make a 45 or 90 left or right to a field or open space, etc., when the fan goes quiet, the response time is dramatically faster. It would be fun to run this in a simulator with a range of pilots, but I will bet a steak dinner that you likely will cut the reaction time by a factor of 5 or even more.

[@jacktextor1007]

Excellent learning experience!

[@martinpauly]

Thank you, Jack. - Martin

[@Shaneepe1]

Great video! I really love the realistic approach to this type of challenge (adrenaline, shock, etc.). Btw I think that plane in the background leaking some hydraulic fluid ;)

[@martinpauly]

Thanks, Shane. And as I’m sure you know, for many older airplanes it’s perfectly normal to shed some oily tears of joy after each flight. - Martin

[@redlywaxer]

Hey leaking fluid and bunch of swastikas on the side too...

[@bigmuz_pilot]

This is great stuff, thanks gents!

[@martinpauly]

Thanks, Murray. - Martin

[@kevinpereira7864]

Brilliant info! Really disagreed with those other videos about how easy these turns would be while they were at idle.

[@martinpauly]

Thanks, Kevin

[@easttexan2933]

sage advice from years and years of experience. Doug, what are your thoughts on AQP training for GA flight students?

[@johnfitzpatrick2469]

G, day Martin from Sydney, Australia. Loss of power after takeoff. (I recall the 1000ft rule) Cessna 172. *That is unless you have 1000 ft under you: don't try a return to RWY. *Sink rate @ 500ft/pm 🌏🇭🇲

[@dustinalexander4620]

I totally agree 100% I'm not a pilot but however. It's really simple as a kid flying that Styrofoam airplane. Throwing out into the wind vs down wind. Engine idle vs engine quit. Total gamer changers. Practice light vs heavy. All are important changers. I as a military veteran want to change my life but am having a hard time deciding how to get in.

[@wyflyguy114]

Very good discussion Martin 👍👍

[@leekraus5025]

Martin, with an engine failure enroute in an A36 Bonanza (or other constant speed prop aircraft) is it possible to raise the nose and slow enough to stop the prop from rotating to increase the glide distance. I once experienced an engine failure in a Grumman Tiger and was able to stop the prop safely glide to and airport and land. The reduction in drag made a significant difference.

[@martinpauly]

I have not tried that, Lee, nor have I heard from anyone who has demonstrated stopping the prop from windmilling. I can see the upsides should it be possible to do so. - Martin

[@leekraus5025]

@@martinpauly thanks Martin, I know it works on fixed pitch props, but have often wondered if it’s possible on a constant speed propeller. I’ve always wanted to know but not willing to try it myself.

[@blueskies8834]

It is possible but would require slowing well below best glide speed to stop the prop/engine rotation. Then pitch down to re-establish best glide speed.

[@bikefreakstl]

Great Video Martin

[@martinpauly]

Thank you. - Martin

[@Luftpirat89]

Another great discussion on an often underrated matter. However I don‘t agree entirely on the gear up or down topic. My intention would be to have the landing gear absorbe some energy as it might shear off. Another point would be a chance of better controllability on the landing roll. Just some food for thought.

[@martinpauly]

It is certainly possible to conceive scenarios where the extended landing gear provides an advantage. The problem is that in real life we won't be able to tell exactly how good of a surface we are landing on. On a typical farm field, I believe Doug's advice is sound. - Martin

[@B25Flyer]

The likelihood of ending up, upside down is much greater with the gear down. The conventional wisdom is on un known unimproved surfaces gear up, in the trees gear down, and if you are willing to bet your life on the quality of the surface, gear down.

[@emergencylowmaneuvering7350]

Use the 777 EFATO Turnback Rule for light singles. The 999 rule is for heavy singles. The 777 rule can be done even when on preflight or driving to airport. Will I be able to climb over 700 fpm? Yes? Are the winds over 7 knots? Yes? Then mark the altimeter to 700 agl for EFATO turnback. The light Single engine 777 Turnback Rule I learned turnbacks in 1997. 2 kinds. For partial power, and no power. Lately my 1997 CFi (retired now) came with a simpler formula. For non heavy singles = THE 777 TURBACK RULE NO PoWER

[@joaoantonio-rf6tq]

Excelent Video! I am a fan from Brasil

[@martinpauly]

Thank you - glad you enjoyed the discussion. - Martin

[@daves.9076]

One of your best. Excellent,

[@jamesrunnels2399]

Just now reading about the turnback testing/ evaluation in the current EAA Sport Aviation and the crowd sourced data collection - see also the Inflight Metrics website.

[@jamesrunnels2399]

Excellent discussion from both of you with lots of practical wisdom and advice. Thanks to you both.

[@martinpauly]

My fear is such testing/evaluation will shift the focus to whether the turnback is theoretically possible, and away from whether it is ever the course of action with the least amount of risk. The price of failure is likely death.

[@eduardoletti5537]

Martin I tend to agree with your concern. I've trained the impossible turn several times in my Falco F.8L simulating an engine failure after takeoff at altitude and found that the aircraft needs exactly 600 ft of airspace to make a complete turn back. I even gave myself a 2 second delay to account for the startle effect. Bank angle must be maintained at 60 degrees. However, a coordinated turn at low altitude following an unexpected engine failure is a totally different scenario. First, if it is a complete loss of power (it rarely is) there must be a significant amount of push over on the nose to maintain glide speed airspeed. The Falco initial climb pitch attitude is around 10 degrees nose up to maintain 85 knots. The nose will need to be quickly dropped to 5 degrees nose down to maintain best glide speed of 80 knots. This is 15 degrees of pitch transition, something most pilots have never trained. Second, turning close to ground while descending is completely different than making a turn at altitude. There will be no horizon to look at for reference, only ground visible outside the windshield. Also, banking 60 degrees close to the ground could induce 'ground shyness" prompting a pilot to keep the wings level while continuing to apply rudder, and effectively cross-controlling and inducing a stall-spin sequence which would be catastrophic. So yes, it can be done, but below 1000 ft, on most singles, you've only got one shot at it.

[@kwittnebel]

I don’t know who this guy is but he clearly knows more than most folks ever will about flying. Great video.

[@kwittnebel]

You should do a video on breadcrumb trackers regarding accident survivability e.g. Steve Fossett and time to rescue after the crash. Spider, Garmin InReach, etc offer cost effective solutions and the spider even records and uploads the AHRS data by satellite. The crash near a road comment brought this to mind. That Mooney guy with the CO poisoning almost froze to death after surviving the landing because he had no idea where he was and they could not find him immediately.