TERROR in the Clouds! The Chilling Fate of Dan Air Flight 1008

[@MentourPilot]

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[@philemonchiro8981]

I love your videos, very detailed, ive learned soo much about aviation

[@RegenmeisterMo]

If this can be fixed please, The sound quality is not good .. not sure whats the issue, it’s just not clear! And that kicks in more clearly with the background music, its ruining the watch experience

[@RafaelOliveira-nd6vr]

Have you ever revisited the history of TAM 402. Reverse got deployed during take off!

[@gabrielmlocik5049]

@@RegenmeisterMo Sound quality is good. Maybe problem at your side?

[@PaleoVirus]

I'll be joining your patreon after the US holidays, Petter. My wife will kill me if I pay 200 a month, but I'll definitely do more than 50 usd. Your contest is important, even though I'll never fly again lol.

[@aimiliosvalvis]

I am watching this channel since 2019. I still cant believe the transformation from Petter making selfie videos from a bench in a park to full quality documentaries better than any other tv productions. Petter thanks for this content from a 30 year old avation enthusiast since a kid...

[@MentourPilot]

Wow, thanks! I’m so happy you are appreciating the work we put in!

[@coritavanderburgh7675]

Same here. Though I do miss the poodles. 😂

[@AnetaMihaylova-d6f]

​@coritavanderburgh7675 the poodles were great

[@FameyFamous]

@@coritavanderburgh7675I agree. I’m here for the information and the storytelling. The older homemade videos on the channel are well worth watching. I’d be happy with less sophisticated productions. The research and clear explanations are the most important aspect.

[@AA-lc6yi]

@@MentourPilot Hi Petter, just to piggy back off the other comment - your MH370 documentary was absolutely incredible. Cannot compliment you and the team who produce these enough, they're world class. A huge and very well deserved "tack så mycket" from me in the UK for all the hard work you guys put in 😊

[@waynemeredith4287]

In aircraft maintenance in the Air Force I learned it was better to ask a stupid question than to have to answer for a stupid mistake.

[@MentourPilot]

Absolutely!

[@Talon12Whitey04]

​@@MentourPilotfantastic!

[@thegreyarea-WPP]

Maintenance crews are the unsung heroes of every air force. I’m not sure which air force you were in, but pilots like myself could never have done much flying without you guys. Thank you for being one of those that kept us airborne.

[@xonx209]

That goes for any aspect of life

[@JAF30]

That goes for any profession in my opinion and that setimate should be taught in schools too.

[@SquirrelRIP]

This terrible accident hits close to home. I was only 9 years old at the time, but I remember clearly my mum telling me that our neighbour’s, a young couple with their new born would not be coming home. RIP.

[@MentourPilot]

Oh, that’s terrible.. 😞

[@angelaberni8873]

So Terribly sad. My neighbour didn't come home either. He left a pregnant wife and a little boy 😢 . Cedric's plane collided with another over what was then called Yugoslavia. He was going to join a ship that he worked on. Unfortunately they called him a week earlier.😢😢

[@y_fam_goeglyd]

Dreadful stories. Breaks my heart to read them, especially when such disasters are probably unnecessary.

[@TheRogey1]

​@@angelaberni8873Zagreb

[@kazefw3834]

May them rest in peace

[@jeffdutton1910]

I worked in a power plant for 42 years. While mistakes in our work environment would be unlikely to result in fatalities, we still had a mantra for pre-job briefings, "It's easier to ask questions now, than to give answers later." So much grief can be avoided by aggressively clearing up the things that don't make sense at the beginning of the task.

[@nixm9093]

This is very much how you kick off any project... Keep asking questions til you know exactly what the requirements are

[@neko7606]

I'm doing a KZbin detox, but this is the one channel I refuse to give up. I love listening to your videos while doing things around the house or commuting.

[@MentourPilot]

That’s great to hear! Thank you for being here 💕

[@AcidOllie]

I bet this one made for a jolly commute!

[@eucliduschaumeau8813]

KZbin detoxing is important for one’s sanity.

[@davemccage7918]

This is why I only fly David Air.

[@davemccage7918]

It’s not drugs, calm down sir snowflake.

[@adamhegedus4766]

Not installing radars, not even 3 years after having the worst crash in aviation history due to foggy weather (it happened on the ground though) is mindblowing. I love the Mediterranean culture, but maybe the "We will do it tomorrow" mentality was also part of this avoidable disaster :( Great video as always, thank you

[@zgazdag1]

Reminds me on Ajaccio Inex Adria Crash - misunderstood controller and no radar... fatal combination...

[@RicardoDawkins]

Mediterranean culture? it is the Spanish culture that we inherited here in Latinamerica.

[@smokingun397]

But the airlines who flew there could have boycotted the place until it was properly equipped

[@TheMcPhersonTape]

Mañana

[@LouisedePaep]

The parents of a dear friend of mine were on this flight. Heartbreaking and I remember it like it was yesterday. I was an overseas rep for a tour operator, I had worked in Tangiers, Ibiza and then Malaga. Another dear friend was the Station Manager in Malaga for Dan Air and he was sent to Tenerife to assist with the search and recovery process. He said it was the worst experience of his life saying “there are something’s you just can’t unsee”. Thankfully I never had to experience a missing or downed flight in the 10yrs I worked in tourism. However, I did witness the Spantax flight that crashed in Malaga in September 1982. I was on my way driving from Torremolinos - Malaga when I saw the disastrous aborted takeoff. I was almost in its flight/crash path. Scariest sight I’ve ever seen. Thank you so much for your concise reporting of these incidents.

[@noticiasinmundicias]

Terrible che no me lo puedo ni imaginar lo de Spantax

[@NicolaW72]

@@noticiasinmundicias Spantax is a story in its one. Maybe Petter will tell it.

[@mjc8281]

Back in the 80s I was in the RAF and spent my last Christmas in the Carlisle area assisting with the aftermath of Pan Am Flight 103, really odd experience. However what was strange for me many years later the company I worked for at the time bought the assets of Pan Am so every year we would get coupons at Christmas to fly with them.. something I could never bring myself to do, it was too close to home and brought up kinda crap memories.

[@biggiouschinnus7489]

The CVR from this flight is bone-chilling. The flight engineer knew something was wrong, but there was no sense of urgency from the captain and first officer whatsoever, even with the GPWS droning "pull up" in the background over and over again. It's honestly mystifying. Edit: Please note I am not absolving the Spanish authorities of blame either. Not installing radar at Tenerife after the disaster of 1977 was completely inexcusable, as was the poor training given to ATCs and inadequate staffing. Combined with the poor weather, this was an accident waiting to happen.

[@MentourPilot]

Yep.. I agree

[@AnetaMihaylova-d6f]

​@@MentourPilotthe pilots were lost

[@gekud4812]

While I recognize the major error made by the ATC, frankly, if this had been a non-european crew, I wager we'd hear a lot more about bad decision-making by the captain as well as cliches regarding bad CRM and a culture of deference and so on (like korean air 801, for example).

[@vasilivh]

@@gekud4812 to get in some European stereotypes, maybe it was the British tendency to hold composure and act calm that suppressed the sense of urgency. It really is difficult to understand why the captain chose to not pull up when the GPWS explicitly tells him to. The captain seems to be the one with the least situational awareness, too bad that he was the one flying.

[@JonosBtheMC]

I still want to know why the GPWS audio changes pitch during the CVR recording. It just bugs me.

[@taku1101]

regarding the single missed letter thing... I feel like the incident where pilots flew west into the amazon rainforest instead of north because of the lack of a decimal point would claim that ..

[@RunawayTrain2502]

that's Varig 268

[@TheRogey1]

And the sun in their eyes!!

[@NicolaW72]

@@TheRogey1 Indeed. Petter did a very informative video about it at this channel.

[@AllenLongstreet]

Great episode!! Loved that one.

[@Grimmtoof]

To me that incident was worse than this one. The crew really should have been able to work out they were going in the wrong direction, Nick Fury would not have been impressed!

[@sherazzzhere]

Incredible how a single missed letter could trigger such a chain of events. This perfectly highlights the razor-thin margins in aviation safety and the critical role of precise communication. Truly a case study in the importance of attention to detail.

[@MentourPilot]

Yep, and the importance of Speaking Up, when unsure about a clearance.

[@tlum4081]

I think it's time a digital text/computer generated communications system be implemented. The problem of several aircraft trying to talk simultaneously would be eliminated and poor English speaking controllers being misunderstood. Simplex communications is so obsolete. Our everyday cell phones allow duplex communications.

[@paulperkins1615]

Safety must never depend on every syllable of a radio transmission being understood correctly. That missing 's' was only one of the mistakes that all had to happen to make this crash possible. If the pilot had remembered how high the highest nearby mountain was, he could have just gone higher than that. Or done any of several other things differently instead of assuming the controller had made no mistakes.

[@stormix5755]

“Turns” is a horrible term to use in that situation. The phraseology was bound to kill someone at some point and was flawed from the start. Counterclockwise is a much better term to describe a holding pattern

[@stevemawer848]

While not life-threatening, a colleague of mine once issued a bug fix for a computer program and the user reported back that the fix had been installed and it was not working. My colleague spent a few hours looking into it and couldn't see what could fail so got back to the user who said "Oh, I should have typed that it was now working". A one letter mistake again!

[@paulmarkman5247]

What a coincidence Petter! I was only this week looking at a memorial in our local cemetery here in Manchester to those who died in this tragic accident. Superb presentation, as ever. All the best - Paul

[@MentourPilot]

Thank you!

[@GrooveQuest]

This is one of the highest quality channels around, somehow Mr. Pilot seems to make each episode better. Keep up the good work!👍

[@MentourPilot]

Wow, thanks! That’s what we are trying to do

[@titan1235813]

​@@MentourPilot No, Petter, you're not trying; you're DOING it. Excellent, as always.

[@philipjamesparsons]

My Dad was a plumber and was doing work at the home of one of the flight crew (I'm not saying which) when the accident happened. Dad still talks today about needing to complete the work with a drama and tragedy unfolding around him. Relatives of mine, living in Tenerife set up a memorial garden to remember the accident. So, this is the best explanation of the accident I have seen.

[@Kevin_747]

In the mid '80's I flew 727's into Tenerife on a contract. It was normal to have airplanes stacked in holding patterns waiting out the wx or waiting for an approach clearance. Most of the holds were not published holds. In 1985 the Dan Air accident was still at the front of my mind and I would give thorough briefings while enroute. If I had an F/O or F/E that was new to Tenerife I would tell them expect some kind of surprise and that usually happened. It was always a challenge to guess your sequence when half the traffic was using Spanish with the controllers. Back then most 727's and similar types had two ADF receivers and two VOR heads. As Mentour Pilot says, always get a clarification. The question you don't ask could be fatal.

[@NicolaW72]

Thank you very much for sharing your experience!

[@roadman2020]

Aren't ATC supposed to communicate in English so all can understand.

[@iankemp2627]

@@roadman2020 I think it's well established by now that the Tenerife ATC staff were supposed to do a lot of things a lot of times, but didn't.

[@patrickwahle6280]

In the 70s instructions to hold on MF beacons were common. Quite often the holding patterns were and required special “entry” procedures. Based on the inbound radial or heading to the beacon the pilot knew how to intercept the outbound radial for the procedure turn. The captain should have known ATC instruction did not make sense.

[@NicolaW72]

@@patrickwahle6280 Indeed.

[@nolandost3070]

It's genuinely shocking how high your content quality is and how short of a production cycle you have. I believe you are top of your class in this type of content, genuinely I can't think of a single other content creator near your level of quality. Keep it up, all of your team deserves all of the success that i hope continues to grow for you and your team.

[@TeQxktcg]

I’m rarely this early, perhaps you’ll read this; I like how you always emphasise how and what we’ve learned from said accident, personally I’m a abstract and associative thinker so over the years these accident reports spun a web of accidents and subsequent innovations creating a sort of technology tree or timeline. If I may be so bold I think this might be a very attractive video format, perhaps more longform then the regular format, where you instead of singling out a single accident you pick a technology and show it’s evolution through the lessens we’ve learned. This might also be the chance to re-visit older work, perhaps with new insight, different framing or simply better production. Anyway, I’m a big fan; to me this isn’t just about aviation but far more multidisciplinary and I really appreciate the effort you guys are putting in. Thank you, wholeheartedly!

[@Arcteek]

Inventing holding patterns in a highly mountainous area is a very unusual way to guide air trafic.

[@NicolaW72]

Indeed.

[@kommandantgalileo]

Tenerife feels cursed honestly, the amount of deadly accidents there is, scary.

[@LB1973]

Its not that surprising though. Tenerife exploded as a tourist destination with the jet age. Having an underequipped airport between two mountain ranges that was always foggy didn't help (both this and the 77 crash and also two further multifatal crashes previously were at least partly due to weather). Tenerife south was built just before this crash and now takes the bulk of flights

[@lordlundin6495]

Poor infrastructure and difficult terrain. They now made the default airport Tenerif South, which is considerably safer.

[@nixm9093]

​@@LB1973absolutely true. Sad hey

[@힐만94]

why do i get the sense this was 1977 runway collision accident happened all over again... non standard practice, lack of english, unclear guidance (in 1977, the atc said "one, two, three, third taxiway", instead of using taxiway designation).. so basically, in three years, there were no major improvement

[@AtreidesOne0000]

"Never attribute to malice that which can adequately be explained by stupidity." Hanlon's Razor

[@thoughtful_criticiser]

Dan Air and the 727 has a very special place in my heart, my first ever flight was with them in a 727. It changed my life, upon returning home I began flying lessons. A few years later I flew on that same 727 with them, I visited the flight deck and spent the rest of the flight (from the Mediterranean to Gatwick) in the jump seat. It was a brilliant end to a great holiday. Yesterday, I was officially informed that my medical has been pulled. Unless I get a kidney transplant and a year of stability my pilot days are over, in real life, I am flying the 737-800 having been trained by Petter and Ben on their wonderful course.

[@NicolaW72]

All the best for you!🍀🍀🍀 - Thank you very much for sharing your memories!

[@barbarawilcox182]

Wishing for you a high place on the transplant list!

[@B1970TBronze]

Good luck!

[@PepeCaseres]

Man, you are such a good communicator, you could do a video about anything I would pay attention

[@MentourPilot]

Thank you! 💕💕

[@stevemawer848]

@@MentourPilot Easier to pay attention without distracting, repetitive background noise while you're talking, though.

[@exercept-mn7sw]

@@stevemawer848 If you're referring to the low-volume backing music, I've never experienced a problem with it on this channel so far. I'm personally a fan of the music choices and the lack of dynamic compression - as usually seen in modern video ads that turn the volume to 11.

[@stevemawer848]

@@exercept-mn7sw Yeah, I've not had an issue with it before this one - but with my slightly defective hearing it becomes very irritating - like a dripping tap constantly in the background. Completely unnecessary and doesn't add anything to the video experience, in fact it detracts from it. I have no idea why people spend time and energy making videos worse. Spoils an otherwise excellent resource, IMO.

[@kittenmatchvids6440]

@@exercept-mn7sw I genuinely don't even hear any background music aside from the sponsor bit, and the only noise is he'll put in like the GPWS noise sometimes

[@sanandaallsgood673]

It's interesting how lack of specificity in speech causes so many accidents. Some think it's unnecessary but as you have shown here, having technical and specific terms, and the need to use them correctly, can and will save lives and insure the process is done correctly. Thank you, Peter for doing these.

[@stevemawer848]

The human reaction to poor speech is usually "but you knew what I meant!". If we had that level of understanding there'd be no need to say anything!

[@mapleext]

Absolutely! This video really shows how important standard language is.

[@amberselectronics]

Definitely some lessons here that apply to my field - I got confused a few days ago by an unclear GPS direction, was in a rush and didn’t double check, and long story short I’m very lucky that I didn’t damage anything as I backed my semi 3 miles down a curvy road in the dark to escape. Always double check, and don’t rush - words to live by.

[@grumpyoldwizard]

My first air flight was when I was 12, back in 1971, on the 707 and 727. That 727 seemed so big I couldn't imagine anything could be larger. Now, at 65, we safely flew to Rome, Italy. The plane was a "little" larger than that ole' 727. It was a safe trip for us. God bless you pilots. You take a burden that most couldn't imagine and carry us safely. Watching these videos has made me fell safer when I fly. God bless you too, Mentour Pilot.

[@sambacarlson]

"If in doubt, ...ASK!" Thank you for another great video sir.

[@adamdouglas-j1o]

I am not a pilot, but i do love your fact managment analysis!! As a lawyer we too have to fact manage and watching your programme, given the outcome is often tragic, but not always, is a visceral reminder of what precise fact management is a skill that must be learnt to the highest standards. I learn something every time I watch your programmes. Thank you.

[@giggiddy]

Lawyer? Fact management??? Give me a break pal. Lol

[@adsyuk1991]

@@giggiddy There's a difference between the facts internally in their mind and the ones they present. Depending on the situation.

[@SanjeevShukla-h9w]

The quality of the videos, the way Petter narates and the information shared is incredible. Makes you feel that you are sitting in the cockpit with the crew and feeling the situation first-hand. Simply brilliant!

[@fridgeffs5662]

What I have learned from flying is that any time I am confused about where i am going around possible terrain and in low visibility the FIRST thing I will do is immediately climb as high as I can until I feel comfortable and only then will i start trying to navigate. Navigate after aviate.

[@Larry-mk9ry]

You might climb right into a big jet in the holding pattern above you.

[@Wolfeson28]

@@Larry-mk9ry Even a big jet is a much smaller object to potentially collide with than the ground.

[@gcorriveau6864]

Reminds me of the old adage: Learn from the mistakes of others. You won't live long enough to make them all yourself." Thanks for posting.. Excellent content - as always.

[@Tamsuw1781]

I have told everyone i know about how great this channel is. Very interesting and informative about what guess on in the cockpit. Honestly i never knew that much was going on.

[@MentourPilot]

Much appreciated! Thank you!

[@ThatWouldBeCareless]

I think what I'm really obsessed with in aviation, as someone who nearly never flies, is the communication. There’s so much to learn about how humans think and communicate in these videos. You did such a good job painting the picture here... The 18:25 (ish) diagram of what the controller said vs what he meant is so clarifying and chilling... and then the pilots straight after, clearly not really understanding the conflicting instructions but trying to follow them anyway... the pilots sitting discussing the hold not making sense, knowing the controller couldn't see what they were doing... Painful, with hindsight. I remember reading comments asking why you wouldn't turn in your video of the terrain escape manoeuvre in the simulator - I feel like this is a good example of why that isn’t the thing to do. It feels like the pilots all had different mental pictures of what was going on, and there just isn’t time to figure that out and work out which of them (if any) is right. Thank you again for making these! The effort and care that goes into them from the whole team is so clear ❤

[@Flyingspann3r]

I remember this tragic accident very well. Sadly one of the pupils at my school lost both parents on it. Very sad, I often think of him all these years later.

[@kenbrown2808]

i have a customer who is a retired pilot, from Alaska, and it's great that I can understand the principles of aviation well enough to enjoy his own personal experiences. One of the things we talked about was that the early days of GPS did not have altitude references, so CFIT was still a hazard.

[@johnbala8345]

We were in Tenerife about a year later. Part of the fuselage was still visible from the road heading up Teide. I was 21 at the time and this memory still haunts me.

[@NicolaW72]

I can imagine this.

[@alfrredd]

I think there is still some debris there in the mountain since it scattered with such insane force.

[@HexagonalMan6]

There's an old training video of Captain Warren Vanderburgh and American Airlines giving a training seminar on situational awareness, and this video reminded me of it for obvious reasons. The thing that it reminded me of most was "if you are below the level of the surrounding terrain and you can't see out the cockpit window, and that 'where are we, what's our clearance' conversation starts up, you should be getting into the vertical and getting out of there *right now*. You don't have to wait for the GPWS to go off."

[@NicolaW72]

Indeed, exactly!

[@Blueteddy-kq1pj]

I worked for Dan Air Crewing when this accident happened. One of the cabin nearly missed this flight because of a traffic jam and when I spoke to her as she checked in she was so relieved to able to fly ……… sliding doors and fate is a tough mistress.

[@MentourPilot]

That’s horrible 😞

[@Blueteddy-kq1pj]

Always thought about this phonecall in my subsequent 40 year career as a pilot, sometimes luck is just against you…..however you can make as much luck as you can by being a diligent professional.

[@PilotGery1]

So.. - sudden unpublished proc - lack of clarification on understading for both pilot and ATC - loss of situational awareness (position) - missed or lack of GPWS escape manuver. Its sad to know that aviation safety are mostly written in blood. But also appreciate and always respect the analysis and recommendation that comes from this. Awesome video peter 👍 iam learning a lot from your channel

[@MentourPilot]

Thank you! Glad you think so

[@Army-q1r]

The improvement in video quality over time is incredible. You create content that not only gives goosebumps but also explains a lot of topics in the simplest and most engaging way. You are the KZbinr who sparked my interest in aviation, and I will soon make it my career. Thank you, Petter!

[@NicolaW72]

This horrible Tenerife Disaster was sadly, but understandably always in the "shadow" of the "Big" Tenerife Disaster three years earlier. But it is really worth to be remembered. Therefore thank you very much for picking it up and analyzing it!👍 First and scariest: Three years after the "Big" Tenerife Disaster Los Rodeos had still no Radar!!! Shocking and unbelievable for everyone who knows something about the "Big" Tenerife Disaster. At an Airport for which this wasn´t the first Crash but the fifth!!! - Unbelievable! Shocking! Then: The ATC performance was simply poor, especially taking into consideration that the ATC was well aware about the high terrain nearby and that he had no Radar to locate the exact position of the Aircraft. Then of course what Petter mentioned rightfully in the video as most important lesson to learn from this tragedy: Don´t say "Roger" when you mean: "I don´t understand what you want me to do". Not in your common daily life and especially not when being a Pilot fllying an Aircraft! And last but not least: Flying in a thick, dense cloud nearby high terrain, directed by an obsucre ATC isn´t obviously a good idea at all. So get out of it as quick as possible! Don´t wait for the "Pull up" instruction to sound! Get out of it and then sort the problem out or divert to another airport! - The second very important lesson to learn from this crash. And of course the third very important lesson: Equip Airports like Los Rodeos with Radar or shut them down! RIP to the victims of this totally avoidable Disaster! May they rest in Peace!

[@ajs41]

But isn't it terrible that they still hadn't installed radar (as opposed to ground radar) at the airport, 3 years after the Tenerife crash?

[@alanolley7286]

​@@ajs41inexcusable quite frankly considering the terrain and weather conditions.Spanish mindset was severly lacking in common sense.

[@BataraKado]

i still remember seeing "pros and cons of being an airline pilot" over 9 years ago, petter you just keep getting better at these videos, they are like full on documentaries now, loved the addition of the "amount of times pilot has landed at airport/accident airport"

[@Chris-hf2sl]

Rather than "left turns", a better word to describe the direction of a holding pattern would perhaps be "clockwise", thereby reserving the word "left" for a left turn.

[@stevemawer848]

So long as, in this age of digital displays, people still know which way a clock goes round!

[@Zestrayswede]

More like counter-clockwise in this case

[@iankemp2627]

This has nothing to do with the choice of words, and everything to do with the choice to use them in a confusing and nonstandard way to poorly communicate an undocumented procedure. I guarantee you that even given a dictionary, that controller still would've managed to find a way to screw up comms.

[@hollandsemum1]

Hi Petter, Thank you so much. With the operations and process engineering background, and some aviation, I really like when you dig down into that and how all the parts mesh, or don't, in these incidents. I think people generally don't understand how important details are, and especially how the many details need to mesh together in certain ways. It been my experience that that is where there are the most problems because one group doesn't think ahead as to how their work affects the next group, and the overall goal. I've also found that it's rarely outright greed but individual laziness and carelessness . The natural thing is for people to take the path of least resistance. that compounds the lack of connection between the details. Ultimately any business requires situational awareness from each employee in achieving the details and how they combine to make the bigger picture. It does help if the reason for why something is set a certain way s clear to the person working on it, and that they can ask about something with no fear of poor response. Everything requires that for success. That is also why English is supposed to be the universal aviation language. I think in some regions they don't understand that speaking the local language to a local flight means that other pilots then have fewer clues as to what is going on in a situation like this. I do know of some ATC recordings that show Chinese pilots with not enough command of English to understand ATC (one at the multi layered procedural action Kennedy is rather notable), and there are plenty of others. Please clarify "slippery" as describing modern aircraft. Less resistance along the outer fuselage skin?

[@MentourPilot]

Yep… everything is intertwined and it’s super important to understand the background in order to safe up the future. Thank you for watching

[@gaylealleluia8392]

Exactly. There is only one word that I can think of that would have made a difference: ASK.

[@igorbednarski8048]

13:40 he says that the older aircraft had "much less effective wings", so I infer that "slippery" means modern wings produce less drag, making it harder to decelarate

[@Dr.Gunsmith]

Been with this channel for a long time and I must say it’s one of the best 🙏

[@y_fam_goeglyd]

The first time I flew was on Dan Air. Wasn't a package holiday, but return flights from Gatwick to Munich. Just before Christmas (the family were going to Germany to celebrate with my eldest sister who lives there). Not long before landing we had the most dreadful case of turbulence, which started with a sheer drop lasting a few seconds. My brother-in-law was queuing at the loo at that moment and he ended up on his hands and knees. He crawled back to his seat, which was the centre one in our row. Unfortunately for him, my mum was on the aisle seat and was a terrified flyer. We had to unpeel her hands from the arm (we were being thrown around, side to side at the time) and eventually get her into the middle seat. The captain didn't do the reassuring chat thing, he just yelled at everyone to sit down and do out seatbelts up, and ended up with "Girls! Sit down!" at the cabin crew. Fair play though, we got there in one piece!

[@wolfgangtiedemann4332]

Although the exact transcript is not shown, here are a few thoughts about ATC. You do not issue a holding clx just a minute or so before the aircraft arrives at a fix, even more so if the hold is not published. You must “clear” an aircraft into a hold, here it sounds like ATC is just describing a hold. You should issue an EAC time. You should wait until the turbo prop reports at 4T before clearing another aircraft to 5T. (probable differing descent rates, no guarantee of 1T separation) Many lessons in this vid. Good job Petr!

[@stevem7868-y4l]

There is a lot more to this accident, than was published here, there was severe lack of CRM between two of the Pilots, and from Memory the Flight Engineer was called out on Standby that morning for this flight,and NOT happy! how do i know this? i worked in Crew Control For Dan Air! Previous to that at Lakers Airways, and after at Virgin Atlantic for 27 years, within the Crew Logistic departments, also not really commentated on, but a HUGE factor, was the Air Traffic controllers speaking in Spanish to any Aircraft that spoke Spanish, and a reluctance to speak English at all, TFN was a dreadful place, and when all operations went south to TFS, and English was mandatary, things got a lot better

[@arinerm1331]

It's also relevant that GPS was in 1980 still a classified capability of the U.S. military, not released to the public until after the Soviet shootdown of KAL-007. A result of that tragedy was that President Reagan unilaterally decided to declassify the program and make it available to all commercial airlines.

[@paulbromley6687]

As a kid I met the widow and children of the captain of one of the two aircraft that crashed in Tenerife. This was on holiday in Sardinia a few years after. The boy was about my age and knew all about aircraft and aviation of course. His younger sister cried a lot as I remember probably still traumatised by the loss. I remember their mum a very lovely but sad lady doing the best she could on her own. I know I enjoyed playing, swimming and hanging out with the boy while our parents socialised. It made me a bit wary of flying even to this day knowing what can happen.

[@BlackCat-nv5sf]

I have watched so many of your excellent videos Petter that I now know the immediate procedure to follow in a plane when the ground proximity warning sounds and I’m not a pilot. 😂

[@wilfreddv]

CFIT accidents always make my skin crawl. I cannot beging to imagine the dread the pilots must feel in the moments leading up to those events, and it's heartbreaking how these events always are always so close to not being catastrophic.

[@RobertGracie]

This crash happened at Tenerife North Airport, its same airport as the Tenerife disaster, its shocking how that airport was allowed to operate because of its weather down right dangerous!

[@MentourPilot]

As mentioned in the video, yep

[@marcellkovacs5452]

The airport still operates, the weather is still the same

[@RobertGracie]

@@MentourPilot Yeah that airport was lethal in garbage weather, most of the incidents at that airport involved the clouds!

[@TheLaualamp]

@@marcellkovacs5452 There's a good reason why most flights go to tenerife south, basically only couple of local spanish low cost airlines use it, hard to see an international carrier landing north.

[@FameyFamous]

@@marcellkovacs5452 but it’s much safer than it was 44 years ago due to radar and tighter procedures.

[@TheNukewarfare2]

Actually, the CVR cuts out in the middle of the flight engineer’s second exclamation, “BANK ANGLE! BANK ANG-!” And that’s what makes it so difficult to listen to: the knowledge that everybody died in that instant. There one second and gone the next.

[@MentourPilot]

Yeah…

[@gliderfan6196]

In my VATSIM days, I participated in an event and there were some 14 aircraft heading to land at EPKK. There was no published procedure at that time (at least none available to simmers) and the controller invented the approach procedure that required a 270-degree right turn to be aligned with the runway. Every pilot incoming was put on a base leg, with the airport to their left, and expected to turn to 072. The instruction was "XXX007, turn right heading 072" issued when it was too late for a left turn, but the right turn was about to align the craft with the runway's centerline. There are no significant obstacles there, you know, and nobody expected to turn out from the runway. The first few pilots turned left, which was straightforward and obvious (clearly assuming controllers' error, which was all too-common at the turn of the century on VATSIM, where controllers were the same hobbyists as pilots and tongue slips and errors galore), placing themselves a few miles parallel to the desired runway. ATC was shouting "right, sir! right!!!" Some pilots tried to immediately go for the right turn and the organised approach turned into a complete mess within minutes. I think the supervisor dropped in, put the unfortunate planes on holding patterns everywhere, gave the remaining dozen a natural left turn issued at the right moment and then brought planes from holding. This shows how dangerous it is when a controller comes up with a procedure of their own that is not clear and immediately understandable to the crew on approach. Should it be at Sion or Innsbruck, the fun would quickly end with crushes to the mountainsides. The good thing was that it was not in the mountains; it was in the flight simulation platform, where things could be taken lightly. But I never forgot the experience.

[@Wargasm54]

It’s crazy that after all the catastrophic events on Tenerife, they still didn’t have radar by 1980. Glutton for punishment.

[@NicolaW72]

Indeed, exactly.

[@ergodoy]

I’d love to hear more about why Dan Air’s choice of the 727 resulted in their failure.

[@mangos2888]

This also intrigued me

[@musicalaviator]

Because only 727's turn left.

[@spsallidas]

Probably highly fuel inefficient?

[@TBone-bz9mp]

According to Wiki, they were acquired on unfavourable leases, were quite old and costly to operate by the beginning of the 1990s and consequently hampered the companies ability to upgrade its fleet. Also Dan-Air never integrated with any tour operators, so when they started setting up their own Airlines, Dan-Air ended up being pushed out of the market.

[@georgeconway4360]

@@TBone-bz9mp In the early 1970s DanAir primarily operated the Comet4.

[@rfnmmandal]

Wonder how costly this would be if it is put up on Netflix? Sometimes can't trust my eyes that this is released for free...

[@MentourPilot]

Yeah.. it takes around 500 hours to create these videos… by 6 people working full time. Hence the ad-breaks

[@rfnmmandal]

@@MentourPilot pls make Indian Airlines flight 257.... Trust me, you will see one of the biggest pilot negligences you would have ever seen in an aircraft type you yourself fly..... Also there aren't any good videos regarding it ....

[@peregrina7701]

I remember watching your video about terrain escape maneuvers. In this story I see the origins of a lot of that. Altitude loss due to bank angle. Not pitching up. TO/GA instead of firewalling the engines. The modern concept seems to be "wings level and climb like a fighter jet." I may be wrong but I think this might have saved the flight. Let's never forget that procedures like the terrain escape maneuver are written in blood. Thank you for the video, Petter and team. Well done as always. RIP to the souls lost.

[@williamhuang8309]

The video stated that if they had just kept flying straight, even with their descent rate they would have made it The right turn was what put them deeper into trouble

[@keithalderson100]

Had the pilot just held the altitude during the turn, given how close they were to the summit on impact, they would have missed this Hull, BUT the pilot still had NO situational awareness of terrain; so might have subsequently hit higher peaks in the general direction of his chosen course.

[@wangofree]

The quality of story telling and graphics just get better and better. Keep up the good work.

[@gzk6nk]

I remember this accident particularly well as in 1980 I had had my pilot's licence for just over a year. Our group-owned dH Chipmunk was based at Manchester Barton (EGCB) but I often flew into Manchester International (EGCC) or obtained direct Barton to Crewe VFR zone crossing clearances from EGCC ATC back then when it wasn't anything like as busy as now. About 15 or more years ago a group of us in our local pub were talking 'flying' when a chap who looked to be in his mid 20s came over and asked if we remembered this accident, as his father had been the captain. I asked him his surname which confirmed it was the same as that of the captain. The accident had happened when he was very young but it had devastated his family, he said. Not just the loss of his father, but it put great financial strain on them as Dan Air was apparently not in a position to pay them much in the way of compensation. An excellent video, Mentour as usual. Your graphics of the Tenerife approach made it all very clear. Incidentally I remember when the first generation GPWS came into use; aircraft being vectored for runway 24 at Manchester and descending LH downwind over the Peak District would sometimes get a spurious GPWS warning if the system detected an excessive closure rate with the ground as the aircraft descended while passing over a steep-sided hill! ("Lufthansa 134 descend to 2,500 feet QNH". "Ah, OK, we're up at 6 thousand now having just got a GPWS alert"). Vince C

[@martincraig9613]

I’m an engineer and have worked on several incident investigations. What stuns me is the focus from national investigation bodies seems to be protecting their fellow countrymen/women and not focusing on the genuine root causes and associated procedural improvements that will be necessary. Would it not be more sensible to have independent investigation bodies?

[@adsyuk1991]

When it’s handled in-house, there is actually a greater need for coordinated effort to completely cover something up. This is because evidence is often accessible to multiple individuals within the organization or country, increasing the chances of leaks or exposure. Usually totalrian societies are the ones that go this far, and they would also be the ones who look on the "independent" body as actually convenient for making it easier to cover everything up in many ways.

[@williamsjm100]

It’s worth remembering that Spain was only just emerging from being a dictatorship ship in 1980, the whole economy was based on tourism and having so many high casualty disasters was potentially a major national issue. The U.K. air accident investigation showed that the instructed flight path, even if correctly interpreted was impossible to fly. I don’t think there was dispute, but the Spanish enquiry completely exonerated the airport !!!

[@AcidOllie]

As a Brit I felt extra sad with this one. What a shame for everyone involved. 😓😓😓

[@sylvia1524]

Hi Peter, I am thankful that I chanced upon your video one day. I used to be terrified of airplanes, but watching your detailed explanations made me let go of that irrational fear. I even started having a dream of becoming a pilot, and I plan to attend a military university to become a military pilot. ❤

[@wyskass861]

One of the principles I learned for PPL and in practice is to ask too much rather than risk miscommunication. I always read back instructions, and don't hesitate to ask for clarification even if it may turn out to be annoying on the air, if not 100% clear. I'd rather sound slow and amateurish on the channel than even worse by executing the wrong move. It's so hard to believe a pro would carry forward with a confused instruction, instead of simply asking for confirmation. At least read back. I'm sure if wasn't terribly busy on that freq.

[@NicolaW72]

Indeed, exactly.

[@MrVCBaker]

No radar at Tenerife in 1980? After such terrible accidents, and given the unpredictable weather, one would think the nations would have come together by then to purchase the most advanced radar available.

[@Boababa-fn3mr]

A lot of airports were just plain dodgy back then.

[@PaulSteMarie]

The instruction from the controller was horrific. No heading, no altitude, just "turn left".

[@martinda7446]

Whoever does the graphics to your script is a treasure... If you do it, blimey, and well done. Like all aviation nutters we are extremely sensitive to errors. Every Hollywood movie mucks it up. Taking off in a 707. Climbing in a DC10 etc....(At the most basic). These are done so well.

[@StringyPete]

"Spanish investigators used this to argue that the controller didnt bear any reaponsibility" ahh, the good old days where everyone finger pointed and tried to attribute blame, a healthy culture indeed!

[@ancogaming]

I was born in 1977, the year of the most devastating aviation disaster ever, the Tenerife Accident, as mentioned in the video. This kinda always resonated with me, I wanted to help that this never happens again, make a difference. I became a pilot, completed training for this profession in 1999, got hired in 2000, and I'm at the company that hired me back then still, now as deputy safety manager additionally to my regular workspace as part of some well trained flight crews. This is all because of people who care, people with a vision, and the will to see it through. I find myself in a lot of Petter's statements and in his dedication to his work, I truly understand where he's coming from and appreciate every single video posted, many of which I play during meetings, trainings and hotel layovers with fellow crew members, by the way. The only thing I'm sad about is that I've never had the chance to fly with this guy in the sim, where he may be the instructor or just the one sitting next to me, doesn't matter. I feel that I've really missed out on this. I'd loved to see him work in the actual aircraft, as I'm sure I would have found some inspiration or gotten a learning experience to support my personal development. Thank you for everything, Petter. It is nice to see that I don't have to rely on being my own inspiration or seek far and wide, as long as you're there. o7

[@NorwayT]

Dan-Air flight 1008 broke The Golden Rule of Aviation: 1) Aviate 2) Navigate 3) Communicate And at least ONE of the Flight Crew ought to have been aviating, while the other one tried to Navigate AND Communicate with ATC to understand what the clearance was and wasn't… Tragic.

[@daCubanaqt]

That controller has most of the responsibility. If you are going to send a plane on an unpublished maneuver, then you should tell them.

[@oliverclark8873]

Your comment has nothing to do with this accident sequence whatsoever. They aviated all the way. It was controlled flight into terrain.

[@roeydaz]

Another superb video on a reproduction scenario of an aviation accident. Brilliant and engaging as always. As a non pilot who has been watching aviation incident videos and to shows for the last 18 years this channel is simply the best I have seen ….in my humble opinion…Thank you Mentour Pilot for a superb job!

[@Fredcat-6]

I remember visiting Tenerife North just before the terrible runway crash or 1977 and watching aircraft circle in and out of cloud at low level between the mountains. It looked extremely hazardous I thought a the time.

[@MentourPilot]

And it likely was.. given how many accidents occurred there

[@NicolaW72]

@@MentourPilot Indeed.

[@arielbarreiros9694]

I’m living in Tenerife now, locals tells this interesting story about Los Rodeos Airport, it was allegedly built in a place marked by an X on a map, but the story says that the X marked the only place that should be avoided for building an airport. Some say it was a mistake, I myself don’t know what to believe, I find hard to believe an airport just gets built by error in the only place it is supposed not to be built 😅, but maybe there is some truth after it. In any case I’ve always found this story interesting and I wanted to share it. Thanks for the great content

[@Inkling777]

Speaking of crashes just short of the top of a mountain, you might want to cover the January 16, 1962 crash of an off-course B-47 into Wright Peak in New York state. I climbed to the crash site, which is only about 100 feet shy of the top. There was still wreckage there. There is a 2023 book on the crash called _Wright Peak Elegy._

[@mapleext]

Just from watching this channel so long, I imagine the confusion the first officer had when he heard what he thought was a reference to a standard established holding pattern and could not find it in the diagram of established holding patterns (or whatever you call that diagram). Then add that “left” and all of a sudden you are guessing. So sad they did not ask. Thank God for today’s radar, although I guess it can fail and some smaller airports don’t even have towers. Rest in peace - a real tragedy. Excellent video Petter -as always.

[@blatherskite9601]

All that, and 38 metres. God, how depressing. Thanks for the clear description of the accident.

[@rashkavar]

Eesh, yeah, as ever, there's a bunch of ways this could have been avoided: 1: Have a proper holding pattern for that side of the runway established. 2: Properly communicating the informal holding pattern such that they turned right, as intended. 3: Getting clarification on the holding pattern provided such that the miscommunication would be corrected. 4: When it became clear they weren't sure where they should be, maintaining level flight above the peak of the highest point noted on their charts, such that they could take the time to figure their problems out while staying above any terrain in the area 5: Doing basically anything in response to that low terrain alert other than banking hard directly towards the mountain such that they loose height. Like, y'know, pulling up, or even banking right but not so hard that they lose height during the turn. 6: Having appropriate ATC infrastructure for an area plagued with low visibility hazards (ie: a sophisticated radar system, ILS, beacons that mark notable features including possibly maybe the mountain they crashed into. That's all I've got as someone with no relevant training other than watching a bunch of these videos. There's probably room for more in there.

[@NicolaW72]

Indeed, exactly! It was a real chain of failures from both sides with a shockingly inadequate infrastructure of the Airport - three years after the "big" Tenerife Disaster.

[@ugetridofit]

What amazes me is just how behind the times the airline industry actually is. The planes use modern tech, but the way they communicate, and get info is absurd. There is NO reason why there is not a sat uplink for every plane that not only transmits all information about the plane constantly including charts, and communications. If our cars can do it why not planes. The black box should be only used as a backup, NOT the main thing for a crash.

[@dekr5941]

What a fantastic video - so insightful and informative. It’s also worth mentioning that earlier on in the approach, ATC advised the crew to expect ‘no delay’ which would have significantly determined their perception of how the approach was to be carried out. It was also stated in coverage at the time that on the morning of the accident, the air traffic controller had learned that his mother had terminal cancer. We will never know if that was also a contributory factor in his miscommunication of the holding pattern. Thank you for making this video.

[@zamrimoha]

hello from kenya. love how you tell the stories. been a subscriber for the longest time ever

[@MentourPilot]

Awesome! Thank you! 💕

[@dirkdarwin2571]

I HAVE AN IDEA! For Christmas, Mentour Pilot should do a 100% deadpan video in his usual style, of the events that occurred onboard Flight 209 in the 1980 movie 'Airplane!' - Thumbs up to make this happen!

[@Alex000113]

Wow so tragic, glad we have GPS and advanced radar today. Amazing just one word initiated the sequence. Yes, we should speak up. Never should have that feeling in your stomach.

[@JochenvanLeeuwen]

I can see and feel it is one of your intentions to make flying safer and I thank you for that. You are doing it with great passion and effort and you are doing a very good job 👍🏻

[@EndeavourSilver]

As usual, I'm impressed with the visuals of this documentary! They really aid what you are explaining and give such a good, fitting feel to the whole video. I'm honestly surprised about the amount of major incidents around the north airport on Tenerife - didn't know about those before - and I can hardly image how scary and unsettling it would be to try to find your way around these confusing instructions with barely any visibility. It's always good to hear that there are many many things in place to prevent such incidents today - and I'm also glad that there's the southern airport now, too. Went there a few years back and it was a smooth ride :) Thanks for these videos and the impressive details you go into, explaining the chain of events! (and hello from Discord!

[@MentourPilot]

Thank you! I love hearing from my Discord crew! Yes, I’ve flown in to the south airport a few times but it has its own set of issues in the form of wind-shears.. much better though

[@thegreyarea-WPP]

Ännu en fantastisk video Petter, tack så mycket för arbetet du och ditt team ut i detta. I can see both the views of the AAIB and CIAIAC when it comes to the blame game, but as with all crashes there’s the Swiss cheese factor. The instruction from ATC seemed clear enough that they followed it, but with the charts available to them they should have questioned it from the moment they had doubts. Then again, had the copilot been listened to about continuing the left turn they would have gotten to where they were aiming for and they would know from the charts that this specific sector they were in was only a risk up to 4500ft. It’s a problem when uncertainty and doubt clouds your judgement and you make fairly rash decisions. Not climbing in the overshoot is baffling to me. I understand the sharp right bank to try to get out of harms way as fast as possible, but if you’re not going to climb, there’s no need for TOGA power. Sadly, I fear this extended the turn and played its own role in reaching the mountainside. It’s easy to sit here and say what I would have done, but I’m not the one getting told to take an abnormal holding pattern when seconds from the beacon, in dense clouds. Honestly, I cannot imagine how they were feeling at that time but I’m sure the GPWS would have spooked me a bit, so maybe I’d have made the same mistakes. All I know is that it was a very sad loss of lives that came out of confusion. I have a feeling, that may be wrong, that the Spanish language radio calls were also a factor as they would be trying to understand what was being said.

[@_kankan6234]

My uncle used to service Dan-Air planes at Lasham airfield in Hampshire in 1980. I didn’t know about this crash and he’s passed away now but I’ll ask his daughter, my cousin, if he’d ever mentioned this event.

[@MentourPilot]

Please do. Thank you for commenting

[@mfc4591]

I have been to Tenerife, but by ship, not by air. A bus trip into the mountains confirmed the sudden dense clouds that form there. Many people who travelled with me commented on the various air accidents there, we agreed that it was good to have sailed in and not flown in ! Thank you for the content, well produced as always.

[@MaxCarponera]

Just a note: The spanish pronuntiation from Canary Islands tends to aspire or miss the last "s" of plurals, same as Andalusian and many latin american dialects. We spaniards feel how they make the effort to pronuntiate the final "s" when talking to a non local. Controller might just been relaxed this time and slipped the letter.

[@ThatWouldBeCareless]

This is what I was thinking! Even without being familiar with local accents and dialects etc, the pilots knew the ATC wasn't communicating in his first language, knew he was speaking Spanish in between to the other plane, and knew the instructions didn't really make sense... So many reasons to just ask for confirmation. So sad.

[@NicolaW72]

@@ThatWouldBeCareless Indeed.

[@FlyingDoctor60]

Petter you tell stories so well! I was not familiar with this mishap so it was a real cliff-hanger for me. When the story reached the point of the captain’s remark about heading toward higher ground and you didn’t say he pitched up I thought, “Oh no no no he’s going to turn right,” and sure enough, that’s what happened. It’s that sort of narrative talent that makes your videos so compelling and effective. Great job!

[@LetterboxFrog]

The one thing I found intriguing was the multi-lingual discussions on radio. If the Dan-Air pilot understood the radio chatter, it would have given them much greater situational awareness. It would be good to see an aviators standard language. While it is usually English, if we had an artificial language dedicated to the industry that is much easier to learn than English or even Esperanto itself, would the skies be safer?

[@HMSNeptun]

We already have the standard declarations for everything in English. It's just that everyone insists on using what they want to and "declaring an emergency".

[@MarlinWilliams-ts5ul]

I've wondered about that. Is English the universal language of aviation?

[@marvhollingworth663]

I'm British & was born a few months before this happened. I'm pretty sure I remember my dad talking about it when I was a kid. I think the worst part about it was the Captain not being properly trained in the terrain escape manoeuvre as it seems to me it's a basic but vital crash prevention procedure that all pilots should know. Even I'd know to pull up, add throttle & level wings, just from watching these videos.

[@aniruddhakashyap6906]

Childhood: Air Crash Investigation on NGC! Now: Mentour Pilot. Thanks so much Petter.

[@MentourPilot]

Thank YOU for being here. I wouldn’t do this if it wasn’t for you

[@superjoeyman1]

Next step is reading the plane crash series of articles by Kyra Dempsey!

[@kristofferjohansson3768]

I flew for the first time in 2 years last week and when we landed I almost started to applaud, being thankful that yet another crew managed to Aviate, Navigate and Communicate.

[@DrDave_63395]

For those who are interested there is a BBC program in the Toast series on DAN Air - its rise and fall. Should be available on BBC Sounds as a Podcast

[@MWS1960]

I’ll always remember my friend who owned angling store in St. Helens dying on this flight. His youngest son decided the night before that he wasn’t going to Tenerife. His father Ken and his mother along with his sister decided to go to Tenerife for one week on vacation, I was actually a pilot with British Midland airways at the time, and I always remember sitting at the traffic light on the East Lancashire road between Liverpool and Manchester when I heard the news.

[@stewcoil2481]

ATC is just garbage at that airport. Deadliest crash was caused by ATC distracted by a football (soccer) game.

[@FamWay]

This is a tragic story that highlights the importance of clear communication and robust procedures in aviation. The simple misunderstanding of "turn" versus "turns" is such a stark reminder of how small errors can escalate in high-stakes environments. It’s incredible how much aviation safety has evolved because of lessons like these-pilots today are trained so thoroughly to avoid similar situations. The emphasis on better GPWS training and situational awareness is a testament to how the industry learns and adapts. A sobering but essential story to reflect on.

[@NicolaW72]

Indeed, exactly.

[@kenoliver8913]

The ATC did not have English as his first language which no doubt made such a small but critical language error more likely.

[@sanjey27]

A accident occurred which killed 500+ people due to lack of radar (and fog) and they still didn't have radar even after 3 years. I don't know what to say

[@NicolaW72]

Indeed. - Unbelievable and Shocking.

[@williamwallace9826]

19:35 and 20:35 The captain believed that he had been told to turn left onto heading 150 because he had just been told to turn left onto heading 150. There's no lack of clarity involved. The controller screwed up by not providing instructions that matched his intent. Words have meaning. However, if the captain or first officer head read back the instruction -- ""Turn left, heading 1-5-0, Dan Air 1-0-0-8" the controller might have realized that he had not provided accurate instructions.

[@WoodFamilyRu]

17:40 I felt so sad for the pilots getting non-precise instructions...

[@JFrooyen]

As a helicopter pilot, i am still obsessed with these videos. Unfortunatly there is very few learning videos reguarding helicopters. Would love to see you make one 😄