Insane Drummers From Before Rock + Metal Existed

[@LoudwireMusic]

Gene Krupa: kzbin.info/www/bejne/a4bQm2V-hLyWpac Joe Harris: kzbin.info/www/bejne/mmS5g4GYqb2ljc0 Viola Smith: kzbin.info/www/bejne/pWbGkIuQlqalfpY Buddy Rich: kzbin.info/www/bejne/mpuZpK1unN6opac Freddie Crump: kzbin.info/www/bejne/fKXaZKJ_jc2rqpo Ray Bauduc: kzbin.info/www/bejne/e4CUZZSDgKpsfM0 Lionel Hampton: kzbin.info/www/bejne/mqqZc2eig86rn5Y

[@BassmanII]

A couple of biggies you missed were Sonny Payne and Rufus "Speedy" Jones, both worked with Count Basie and Jones with Duke Ellington as well.

[@kevinconway2417]

Horrible BR clip. He's only at about 20 Percent of the monster he became. Still cool though compared to what came after. 😆 🥁

[@MajesticDemonLord]

As a Drummer, the biggest travesty of this list is you didn't include the Godfather of Double Bass: Louie Bellson.

[@tamahome1970]

Don't Forget Added to Gege di giacomo

[@Nissardpertugiu]

Bellson, Sam woodyard, Dave Black

[@AprehamLincoln]

The fact that Viola Smith was still playing and teaching drums at over 100 years old is insane. That legend of a woman passed away a couple years ago and honestly, not even sad about it. She had as full and amazing a life as anyone.

[@lvalledor3440]

I wish she had as much attention as Buddy Rich & Louie Bellson. I would've loved to see her perform with Buddy Rich's Big Band

[@ffjsb]

She had the Neil Peart starter drum kit there...

[@emwhaibee]

That Neil Peartesque set-up she had though, oof! 😣👌🏾

[@t-man5196]

Still sad ya weirdo

[@MCLemonyfresh]

@@t-man5196 yea tf kinda sentence was that

[@lvalledor3440]

Since this is a pre-metal topic, they should've mentioned Louie Bellson considering he's one of the first drummers to incorporate double bass drums long before the "Big 4"

[@scottwilcox1964]

I had the privilege to work with Louie for a concert and play with him. He was something else. He was a fountain of knowledge, tips, pointers...all too eager to impart that wisdom to us. His warm ups were ridiculous. The following year I got to play and work with Don Butterfield. Tuba player for The Tonight Show. He played all four trumpet parts for Buglers Holiday on the tuba. /Facepalm. During rehearsal two tuba players got up, laid their tubas at his feet, bowed and walked off the stage. Don lost it he laughed so hard. say what you will about the OG players, they were on a whole other level. They pushed the boundaries that lead the way for todays drummers and musicians.

[@milofraser5514]

Totally. Art Blakey too, since he had a loud and chaotic style of soloing and timekeeping too. No wonder he was nicknamed "thunder", He bashed so damn loud he was almost completely deaf at the end of his life and had hearing aids that he would take off whenever he played.

[@hubbsllc]

@@scottwilcox1964 I so, so, envy you. I would have loved to have even just met him, much less work with him in any capacity. When MODERN DRUMMER did a cover story and interview with him in 2004, his exuberance and his love for music leapt off of every page. A true gentleman, inspiration, and talent.

[@HK556]

Since this is a "Who they missed" thread I would like to mention Max Roach and Joe Jones. Art Blakey was loud, Buddy Rich was Flashy, but Joe Jones and Max Roach were eloquent.

[@andrewpappas9311]

You can't talk about great pre-rock drummers without Gene Krupa and Buddy Rich, those guys are definitely some of the GOATs when it comes to drumming

[@joeln901]

💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯

[@JdDiehl]

They were good...for their era. Far better than anyone else for sure. But these days, there are an unbelievable amount of Drummers who would outplay them with one hand with minimal effort too. Just as time and music evolve, so to has drumming. And a lot of the best styles of drumming and those who are good at said styles are far better than anything Buddy & Gene could do. As you can see in this video, a lot of things they do here involved just playing a bunch of notes on toms with periodic cymbal hits. It sounded good (and even made me as a Drummer energized). But it wasn't all that 'impressive either'. Just my thoughts.

[@darrellgrant7615]

@@JdDiehl you’re forgetting the role technology plays in the modern era. I had an older Ludwig as my first kit and the hardware especially the kick pedal were complete garbage compared to today’s systems. Plus the amount of people using triggers. It’s not an accurate comparison. It’s like saying an F22 pilot is better than a WW 2 ace.

[@danwilliams4270]

@Jordan’s Elections Hub Yeah, nothing like todays drummers with fake double kick set ups. What these guys did with 3-4 drums, it takes a dozen today to do. Today people get excited over drum exercises.

[@JdDiehl]

@@darrellgrant7615 You're generalizing an entire group of drummers to make a point. Therefore, your point is mute.

[@markriffey8899]

Seeing Lionel Hampton move flawlessly from the vibes to the trap kit when he was almost 80 yrs is still a favorite concert experience of mine.

[@gordgibson6654]

All these drummers knew the values of great chops and when and how to show off/ entertain an audience, INCREDIBLE TALENT! Loved this video so much I watched it twice and saved it. Thanks for sharing.

[@magmus2]

Viola Smith was on another level

[@avi_s0ncin0]

She invented the Neil Peart kit

[@sniffrat3646]

...and lived to be 107!

[@johngalush8790]

Simply because she was female

[@ripleyfuriosa5701]

@@johngalush8790 Jealous?

[@johngalush8790]

@Ripley Furiosa why would I be jealous of someone with no dick?

[@johnwick1883]

Jazz Drummer of 27 years. I loved ever minute of that! My thanks.

[@sourkraut6403]

Mad geniuses. All of them! So much fun watching them. Thanks for this.

[@jimbojazza5539]

Given that the performance was from the 30s or 40s, Viola Smith only died a couple of years ago - a youngster at 107.

[@josephwest124]

The most absolutely amazing thing about these drummers is their attire. Can you imagine ANY modern drummer (especially in rock/metal) playing their solos in suit and ties (and dress, in Viola Smith's case) and still looking as simultaneously relaxed and frenetic at the same time? These people must have had some absolutely AMAZING undergarments to not look like they'd stepped out of a shower fully clothed after even a few minutes of drumming. (On a moderately warm day, just doing any minor exertion and my shirt's starting to develop wet spots after a few minutes. And I'm using modern antiperspirants when doing that little bit.)

[@DarkSideofSynth]

Exactly. Wearing jackets, traditional grip, with a whole big band behind, no multi-mic'ing, no click track, no grid alignment, no sample replacement, no KZbin tutorials ;)

[@Trentstone121]

Freddie crump was a beast! That guy understood what the drums were for!

[@johngalush8790]

I swear I thought that was an animation when I first saw it. Didn't even look real.

[@StandWatie1862]

They were shredding

[@blitheringrando1410]

Drums, jungle gym, same thing if you have sticks

[@RayfieldA]

Just yesterday my piano instructor was reminding me how amazing female musicians from the 40s and 50s got very little respect. We Must give great musicians their flowers before they are gone! 💐👏🏾❤

[@frankrogowski5608]

These are proper drummers that some of the clever arsed metal/rock ones could learn how to do it the right way!

[@brionhannan1204]

Great list, there needs to be a Part II there are more for sure💪🤘

[@robswystun2766]

Man, those old-timey drummers rocked the fuck out.

[@wojtekbukowski7133]

Not just before Rock/Metal, but before click tracks, so they had real internal timing. Before multi track recording, so they had to EQ themselves. Before stage monitors, so they had to develop ears to listen to the entire band live as they played. Before anything that's available today, these cats laid down the foundation on which all modern genres of music stand on today.

[@Sternodox]

Brilliant analysis. You broke it all down perfectly.

[@ryanclark6402]

Glad to see Big Noise From Winnetka made the cut!

[@turnipbeybladespinner7836]

i was wide-eyed and jaw-dropped through Viola Smith's whole solo. damn she's a beast, considering the era.

[@domenicv7962]

considering the era? It was a better era

[@MdlAgedHeadbanger]

Most rock drummers I knew back in the 80s were all fans of Buddy Rich. The Freddie Crump video was cool to see. Now I know where Randy Castillo got his inspiration from.

[@rondarnell949]

Middle age headbanger. Rock drummers in the 80s ? Who?

[@MdlAgedHeadbanger]

@@rondarnell949 Randy Castillo played drums with Ozzy on the Ultimate Sin and for Motley Crue in the late 90s. I saw him with both and on the Ultimate Sin tour he got up and walked around the kit playing the rims and sides of the drums, everything but the heads. One of the best drum solos I ever saw.

[@foxboy1985]

Viola was a beast in her own right

[@jimfritz2087]

Beauty as a Beast . \ /

[@andrerose3101]

Golden Era Jazz drums even till today was and are pure and insanelly technicall

[@jg3000]

Ray Baudic starts playing his buddys bass with drumsticks. Pretty epic.

[@HH-mw4sq]

Yep, playing the drums and bass simultaneously, and on beat. I have never seen any other drummer do that, metal or otherwise.

[@counterfit5]

He had Funk Fingers before Tony Levin knew what a bass was

[@tessjuel]

You can find the whole video on YT. Just search for "Big Noise from Winnetka" It's the 1952 version you want. The 1938 original is just as good but no video, only still photos.

[@andrewbarrett1537]

That’s the tune he and Bob Haggart (famous bassist) wrote together: “Big Noise from Winnetka”. You can find the whole thing on KZbin.

[@ekathe85]

@@counterfit5 MTE

[@petebates6576]

Viola Smith's kit looks like it should raise up and rotate 360°

[@ImFrantic]

I'm a drummer myself and imma tell you, every drummer (all from the metal scene) I know admires Jazz drummers. Jazz is one of the most complex genres out there (which is funny when we think of how it developed) and drummers are freakin crazy. Every drummer knows the movie Whiplash, I don't need to say more :D

[@joebaumgart1146]

I've been a Jazz drummer for over 25 years and I've always admired metal drummers. It's not noise, it's actually very complex rudiments.

[@ImFrantic]

@@joebaumgart1146 Exactly, Jazz n Metal 🤝

[@KISSFanDan1995]

Peter Criss of Kiss is a Jazz drummer before he joined them. You can definitely hear it on his live drum solo’s.

[@ffjsb]

@@joebaumgart1146 The problem with a lot of metal is sometimes it's overdone to the point where you can't hear all the subtleties in the music. It takes a good metal band to do it right and not just make a lot of loud noise.

[@Drekon009]

From what I've heard Jazz drummers hated Whiplash

[@quitethenotion]

I’ve been trying to find a video like this for so long! I wanted to see if they went as crazy as drummers do nowadays!

[@Iesous27]

That Ray bauduc has some sick grooves!

[@SteveOuimette]

Came for the drummers, stayed for the upright bassist at 3:23!

[@andrewbarrett1537]

That’s Bob Haggart :)

[@loucontino4804]

Hamp was a beautiful cat. I loved that he knew all the percussion instruments and wrote music as well. That's not a drummer folks, that's a musician.

[@dannylittle6766]

Partial list of pre-rock drummers not on this list-Baby Dodds, Sid Catlett, Chick Webb, Papa Jo Jones, Cozy Cole, Kenny Clarke, Roy Haynes (still alive!), Sonny Greer, Shadow Wilson, Sonny Payne, Tiny Kahn, Shelley Manne, Rufus "Speedy" Jones.

[@andrewbarrett1537]

There’s also a great website called “Drums in the Twenties” where there are more early greats listed with examples and lots of analysis.

[@andrewbarrett1537]

One of my favorite 20s drummers is Cliff “Snags” Jones. He recorded with the Dixie Four, the Midnight Rounders, the State Street Ramblers, Junie Cobb’s Grains of Corn, and more. He’s most audible on the four “Dixie Four” sides behind James Blythe and Clarence Johnson at the two pianos: “Mississippi Stomp”, “South Side Stomp”, “St Louis Man” and I forgot the 4th one. He’s also great on the vinyl test pressing of the 1928 State Street Ramblers record “Endurance Stomp”. Bassist Bill Johnson yells encouragement on all these exciting records.

[@thomasespositio3139]

Kudos to you Danny for mentioning the genius that was big sid catlett ,many of the others you mentioned are known by people but not sid

[@Darmesis]

I’m not a musician or jazz enthusiast, so I only knew three of these folk. The last three with their stick tricks (and dancing by Crump) was BADAZZ! 🤘

[@parkitplo3575]

Thank you Loudwire for the clip... How many stand up Bass players would even entertain the thought of a drummer smacking their strings with a stick?? Let alone the cost of a stand up Bass.

[@GazAce]

That last guy juggling & playing was off the charts but they all were awesome.. actually beyond awesome 🥁 👏🥇👌🎵

[@miked877]

They are all awesome, my two favorites are Freddie Crump and Ray Bauduc. Freddie was hysterical with all his antics and Ray was playing the bottom of the cymbal with finger flicks.

[@joshthompiano]

2:23 This is insane. Buddy Rich is such an incredible drummer and performer. If you watch carefully, from this point in the video he notices his hit hat is slipping off (poorly set up no carpet or traction) and Buddy just casually pulls the high hat back using his foot on the pedal of the high hat all while keeping incredible time with the high hat and giving a clinic on his hand work at the same moment. Please like this comment if you love nuance and expertise or noticed that also!

[@rondarnell949]

What he's doing with his left hand alone is mind blowing

[@spiveydurango5437]

I thought I picked that up

[@srrish666]

Viola Smith & Buddy Rich were Truly 🔥🔥🔥👌🤘🤘 Before metal existed

[@thatonedude1003]

Some of my favorites are on this list…so awesome to see them get some recognition. Gene and Buddy are two of the ones I listen to on the regular.

[@TheGabrielberki]

They were metal for those days

[@Domzdream]

Love this comment!! 🏆

[@thomaskendrick6766]

Indeed!

[@johnord684]

Have a like

[@jeremyhopkins577]

Elvin Jones was heavy as fuck.

[@StandWatie1862]

That was the spirit of metal

[@VicelikeGold79]

Freddie's playing must be one hell of a workout that guy moves around so much!

[@tziirkq]

I always thought Rich could have been the drummer for Iron Maiden. The drum battle between him and Jerry Lewis is great.

[@jimfritz2087]

And Animal on The Muppet Show .

[@weksheddweller]

only problem is he thinks all genres suck except jazz

[@davidg.9932]

Maiden nominated for Rock and Roll Hall of Fame - Finally..

[@strangevisions5162]

@@davidg.9932 people still care about the RRHoF? Why?

[@Tooncesthecatwhodrives]

@@strangevisions5162 true, the rock and roll hall of fame is complete crap, they waited 30 years to put Rush in there and Black Sabbath and Judas Priest are the only heavy metal groups In there I think.

[@Lucas-Lee-1987]

Viola Smith' s kit is breath-taking! It even had its own taiko drums! Modern drum kits are limited compared to those of the old days..!

[@CaptHayfever]

A lot of modern drumkits are designed for ease in touring, or limited by what the drummer had learned on before getting rich enough to add more things.

[@merlinaudubon6202]

Tell that to Terry Bozzio..

[@lashedbutnotleashed1984]

Limited? Tell that to Neil Peart or Carl Palmer.

[@merlinaudubon6202]

@@lashedbutnotleashed1984 ...or Terry Bozzio? 🙃

[@lashedbutnotleashed1984]

@@merlinaudubon6202 Yes, Bozzio has a phenomenal kit also. I saw him live a few times with various bands, and he is awesome.

[@ScarysReviews]

it's where the BLAST BEAT originated from. @3:48 to 4:02. THE GREATEST moment in musichistory, WHAT WAS THAT!? other than incredible genius.

[@andrewbarrett1537]

That’s their specialty “Big Noise from Winnetka” which was their bass and drum feature with the Bob Crosby big band.

[@BrandByAngel]

This is a wonderful list. Thank you!

[@vixstert.5642]

Freddie Crump was truly an entertainer. Thought he was brilliant!

[@thehunterjk2521]

The guys in that first clip are looking at him like “Dude, when’s it our turn?”

[@poindextertunes]

Yeeeoooo playing the bass with drumsticks 😂🔥

[@martinking1839]

I enjoyed each and everyone of these great drummers/percussionists. Freddie Crump stood out for me on this one because he left everything of himself on that stage like a young Bruce Springsteen and early James Brown. Oh, and Michael Jackson as well. We're are definitely talking about PRACTICE here, Mr. Iverson.

[@dj-um7el]

That first guy... 👏

[@titan1235813]

None other than the great Gene Krupa

[@marval9119]

I would have added Louie Bellson too but this is a great list!

[@sundaetheguitar]

It's crazy how rambunctious Krupa's drumming was, let alone in a big band!

[@e11aguru]

He must've been a huge influence on Keith Moon.

[@abidababida7096]

love watching the old timers. It was all about hand rudiments back then. triplets, paradiddles, double stroke rolls and speed.

[@earledaniels4539]

These Jazz greats put most modern Rock drummers to shame and they didn't hold their sticks like a couple of 2 x 4s. Buddy Rich was unbelievable 👍

[@ecurewitz]

There is a lot of badass drumming right there

[@meekrob]

I don't normally think of Hampton as a drummer per se, but holy cow!

[@andrewbarrett1537]

Back when I played with George Probert’s Monrovia Old Style Jazz Band in the late 90s/early 2000s, George had good advice for me and other young musicians he mentored like Tommy Catanzaro and Joseph Howell: “Practice with a Metronome”. In George’s band I graduated from 2nd washboard to 1st washboard and finally to drums (it was a good sized read band). To aid in my practicing and help me keep a steady groove and swing hard, George made me cassette tapes from his extensive record collection. The tapes were mostly the Harlem Hamfats, and Lionel Hampton with his big band. DAMN Lionel Hampton could swing!!!! I haven never gotten that great on percussion but have immense respect for this man!

[@andrewbarrett1537]

I wrote “good sized trad band” but it autocorrected to “read band” without informing me.

[@Idan_the_guitarist2603]

Viola smith is like Mike mangini’s grandma with that kit!

[@demon-goat]

mankini??

[@danielmagro4817]

i like that you respect old masters

[@Donald-Fagen]

Jazz Drummers’ techniques are just insane.

[@yelyab1]

And their fingers never leave their hands, amazing!

[@brianthomas2434]

You learn something new every day. I thought Hamp was just a vibraphone player.

[@andrewbarrett1537]

“Just”...

[@hepcat-bob]

The man who taught me how to Lindy Hop was at the Savoy Ballroom the night that Benny Goodman's band went head-to-head against Chick Webb's band. He said Chick's band blew Goodman's band off the stage and Gene Krupa just sat there and shook his head in defeat. Gene Krupa later said “I’ll never forget that night - he [Chick Webb] just cut me to ribbons - made me feel awfully small. That man was dynamic; he could reach the most amazing heights. When he really let go, you had the feeling that the entire atmosphere in the place was charged. When he felt like it, he could cut down any of us.”

[@memoryvice398]

I'm so glad Ray Bauduc went there. Due to the camera angle, I thought he actually went to start hitting the bass when he first moved over to the ride cymbal. But then I realized he hadn't and thought "Damn, missed opportunity." But then... 😀

[@roadrocket7]

Agreed. Ray had a ton of chops combined with such melodic passion. He is a treat to watch, since footage like shown here is so rare.

[@hubbsllc]

I've got to put this in the comments for posterity. Louis Bellson on "Skin Deep," his composition on Duke Ellington's ELLINGTON UPTOWN, has to be heard to be believed. It was recorded in an old ballroom in Fresno, California, probably in *1951*. They took the tape to CBS and their engineers said they couldn't improve on it. But Bellson's performance on that tune was ahead of its time.

[@rwfrench66GenX]

Traditional grip, wearing suits and ties, no triggers, but as great as they all are, all of them had their own favorite drummers!

[@rad_iguana64]

Freddie Crump was on a whole different level hahaha

[@UnwrittenSpade]

Genes little cymbal gets me every time

[@Raughwe]

Neil Peart was talking about early 70’s Collins, saying that the one thing that made him so otherworldly was his touch. It applies to all drummers. Those fine muscles and where they take their reading on the drum head… ahhhh! The key ingredient. And it takes so much frustration to get a person there.

[@mr.logicpants2835]

Gene Krupa looks like he is having the best time of his life while playing. 😁

[@tiki_trash]

Krupa famously got busted for weed so it made me laugh the way he was concentrating on that little splash cymbal. I was imagining him stoned, lol.

[@AnthonyFlack]

I see he was using the butt of the stick too. He must've liked it loud!

[@ankhor9252]

Great stuff guys. Thank you.

[@genewilliams617]

Good stuff Maynard!!!!

[@1950Grendel]

Most people associate Hamp with the xylophone, but he was an all around percussionist.

[@thatguyoverthere531]

Love how all of these guys are in their best clothes

[@HH-mw4sq]

Yep, suit and tie, plus the handkerchief in the top pocket. They get bonus points for that, when compared to the bare-chested drummers of today.

[@SteveOnStar]

Kind of surprised you did not include Ed shaughnessy or Max Roach

[@HigzyTeflon]

2:03 looks like someone took a 2x4 to those cymbals 😲

[@JasonL77]

When I clicked on this video, I thought “This list better include Buddy Rich.”

[@marcuscorvin9998]

Would have loved to see what Freddie Crump would do to the “Hello Kitty” kit.

[@joeymorvant161]

Love Gene Krupa and Buddy Rich! Watching Gene play on that little splash cymbal was just too cool! Never heard of Freddie Crump prior to this, but that shit he pulled was just AMAZING!!

[@jakdrpr2106]

Grat stuff. Next compilation see if you can find Mickey Rooney doing the drums when he was young.

[@ed.4540]

glad you featured gene krupa at the first place. one of the best drummer of all-time! swing master!

[@stevesyncox9893]

Fantastic man.

[@ericdreizen1463]

Freddie Crump? Never heard of him, but hey! HE'S INSANE!

[@零一堂-j4n]

Freddie Crump lit up my day.

[@kamiwouter]

Drumming in a full suit. Respect. I'd be sweating buckets

[@ThePickledOnion]

so funny that the title/description implies that rock and metal is somehow the pinnacle of drumming

[@1COMIXMAN]

My dad's favorite was buddy rich. He saw him once as a teen and was hooked on drums.

[@johnbidochka2795]

I don't know if the same can be said for performers of the other typical rock or metal instruments, but drummers don't seem to care about genre or era, an awesome drummer is an awesome drummer in their eyes and worthy of respect.

[@RotterStudios]

My grandfather was best friends with Buddy Rich and played with him as well, for fun.

[@patzeller3429]

This is awesome…and humbling ( :

[@yungkoopa9262]

Viola Smith lived to 107, she had a long life.

[@charlesstanford1310]

On the Joe Harris clip it's interesting to watch his right knee bounce: he was playing that kick drum even if the sound didn't get recorded. I remember reading in Modern Drummer in the 1990s about how engineers would take the bass drum sound out of recordings, but the drummers were always using them. "You don't lug a drum like that around and _not_ use it!"

[@ibleebinU]

Ray Bauduc plays the bass....priceless!

[@Hillers62]

At 3:10 ...Holy Sh*t!!!!...I would love drummers try to do this today!!!! It is EPIC!!!!!

[@FateMissedDeath]

Freddie Krump was Slipknot of his time it seems and Lionel Hampton Mushroomhead.

[@benbonesalive]

The best are the looks from the band.. “here we go again with the drum solo”

[@bobblowhard8823]

These drummers put most drummers of today to shame.

[@tomaslongoria2449]

Tito Puente!!! mad percussionist!

[@astrojay0981]

That was awesome.

[@Sternodox]

Fantastic! And I always wondered why trad grip mostly switched to match. What are the advantages to each? BTW, after playing bass guitar for more than 50 years, I just got a drum kit last month and have been taking lessons and practicing 2-3 hours a day. I'm almost 70. I love it!!!

[@davidvalderrama1816]

Truly entertainment. It takes a little time to acquire that level of skill.

[@MetaITurtle]

This was actually considered Metal back then