Love 'em or Hate 'em? Robinson Helicopters Controversy

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[@wilbursworld246]

over 200 hours in the R22 & R44 and 20 in the H125. I love the robinson platform for how it allowed me to become a pilot at an affordable price. If you respect the envelope, great helicopters. The R22 will make you a better pilot! CFI certificate just issued utilizing HOGS, Thanks for the content Kenny!

[@HelicopterGround]

Thanks for sharing your experience!

[@cyrus8020]

I'm a retired military helicopter pilot with 20 years military flying, and another 21 years flying Part 91/135 and still flying. Over 10,000 hours and over 8,000 in helos. The Robinson main rotor system design is capable of being safely operated given a couple of factors,... (1) the experience and knowledge (in a teetering main rotor system), specifically light to negative G loading, (2) Forecast and observed weather conditions, specifically wind and turbulence. If a pilot is constantly aware of those and keeps the teetering main rotor design in a loaded condition, then they can definitely operate this aircraft safely. Many of the preliminary and final NTSB accident reports that I have read to date on the Robinson series aircraft are fatal accidents that resulted in the pilot not ensuring they were aware of and adhering to (1) and (2) above. The result is the tailboom being chopped off forward of the tail rotor gearbox. I don't "Hate" the Robinson series aircraft, I just prefer a different main rotor design other than the teetering (Semi-rigid) system. With that said, this design is lower cost, fewer parts, and lower maintenance than other systems, and that is why you find it on the less expensive aircraft. My personal opinion is that it is not a good training aircraft just because of the simple fact that it is a very unforgiving aircraft if you are not paying close attention to (1) and (2) above. A student can get away with making some mistakes in those two areas in a Schweizer 269 or 300 and come home at the end of the day.

[@HelicopterGround]

Thanks for sharing!

[@HongyaMa]

Miss the 70s 80s where the Bell UH 1 series and OH 58 had mast bumping issues? Aggressive NOE push overs were killers. We learned to roll into the hills with +Gs Any simirigid under slung rotor system has that hazard.

[@jonathanjenkins8630]

Great video. I enjoyed the R22 - learned at Long Beach about 25 years ago.

[@HelicopterGround]

Thanks for sharing!

[@epi_adikt]

Can confirm the Safety Course is still taught the same. It is amazing learning from the 20,000 HR pilots at the course.

[@HelicopterGround]

Thanks for sharing!

[@PatrickDuffy-u3s]

If you hate yours, I'll take it.

[@HelicopterGround]

Guess you didn’t listen.

[@scottmonk]

I fly a 2001 Schweizer 300CB. I LOVE it. The only problems i have with Robinsons are with the R22. The per-seat weight limit stopped me from training in one way back when, and the fact you have to enter an autorotation super-fast. And, yes, they are cheaper to maintain - until you hit 12 years/2200 hours - then you have to get them rebuilt.

[@HongyaMa]

12 years only applies to the blades, You can replace the time life parts as they time out. Read the FAA approved limits including the notes . . .Pt 91 use. and the auto speed & rate of descent are pilot controlled a little aft cyclic at the start to load the rotors buys you a few seconds (2) and the 70+ air speed is enough to balloon a flare and hop over a 8 foot fence. Prefer a nice 50 odd airspeed in steady state with a well timed flare for a zero air speed and zero rate of descent ... the Hughes 269 you look between your toes still nice

[@HelicopterGround]

Thanks for the feedback.

[@HongyaMa]

@@Lostdeltallc Try and get parts for your 300. Hughes Sikorsky Scweizer ... Better off with a Brantley No TC or PC. but you can get parts for a B2 easier then your 300.

[@HongyaMa]

@@Lostdeltallc Try harder, My younger brother has a TH 55. And owning is a responsibility you'll never experience? My other brother has both a Brantley and Enstroms... I own 3 helicopters myself. Parts ? 1 Bell 2 Robinson 3 Enstrom 4 MD 5 RotorX - Royorway 6 Schweizer 7 Brantlry Note: I'm not good at spelling But you misspelled what you say you fly... 🤣

[@HongyaMa]

@@Lostdeltallc A helicopter is a helicopter. I get paid to fly. I get paid to turn wrenches too. Sikorsky Bell Hughes what ever, Jealousy is oozing with your post I haven't paid for a flight since I got my Commercial Certificate... You? 🤣😘 PS My brothers own the TH 55 and their helicopters' You can't read either.... YOU "Pay more do less"

[@TheRailroaddan]

I started out in a R22 and have 90+hrs in one, But after switching to the Schweizer 300C I don't have any desire to fly an R22 anymore. I like the shirt Live to fly another day. There is a R22 up for auction at Richie brothers in Canada with lots of hours left.

[@HelicopterGround]

Thanks for sharing!

[@InfinitProcessBSG13]

To actually be in helicopter 🚁 🛸 🚁 Then car 🚙 i think its skid steer operation Seems interesting thing to do on weekend but fly ✈ Definitely don't fly like airplane 🛬😅 But u can almost fly it anywhere u can hubber bump into stuff All safety tips apply an is important

[@HelicopterGround]

Thanks for commenting

[@TheInvoice123]

Who doesnt want a margin of error?

[@HelicopterGround]

Thanks for the feedback.

[@Coptergirljs]

I miss flying "Robby" (R22). My last flight was 2019. Another student crashed "Big Red" (R44) and it caused a snow ball affect. The airport staff was traumatized and wanted no one taking helicopter lessons there anymore. My last lesson was in 2012, but I would come down to fly once or twice a year and was pretty good at it. I had a jerk for an instructor who knew I was totally green when I started. I didn't realize back then that he was not going to let a woman have a license. Also there was only one place you could learn to fly a helicopter in Maine. I struggled to fly early on and didn't understand much of the stuff in the Robinson books and he never went over them with me. I finally figured out the cyclic after awhile; I didn't have a computer, but did get a dvd from Sporty's. I then smelled a rat! I wonder how many women actually go through this same thing. He wasn't teaching me, he just took my money. I'm telling you this because I have had many lady friends who said they always had wanted to fly. Discrimination against women has never disappeared; something should be down to see that women and minorities have a chance.

[@HelicopterGround]

Thanks for sharing! We have many female pilots as members of our Helicopter Online Ground School and helped many female pilots attain their helicopter ratings!

[@patrickjennings7362]

It really isn’t a love vs hate thing. Personally I don’t like the teetering cyclic but I know many that do. What really puts me off is the weight. Robinson has trimmed every ounce out of the birds and it shows when they suffer even minor accidents. They also don’t handle rough air as well as I’d like. All that said, they are leaders in the market and have sold a lot of helicopters. They absolutely have a dedicated following but also seem almost “throw-away” to their owners where they buy one, fly it close to the limits, and buy another that has a few hundred hours in it and so on. So I don’t love Robbie’s and I certainly don’t hate them. Any helicopter should have a mission - even if that mission is fun - and Robinson has found their audience.

[@HelicopterGround]

Thanks for the feedback

[@TheRotorhound]

Trained in a Bell 47d and after checkride ended up buying a R22. Took a bunch of duel before I could handle the Robinson. Instructor was ex Apache pilot and he needed a bunch of hours before he could handle R22. Draw any conclusions you want.

[@HelicopterGround]

Thanks for sharing.

[@SarahRovner]

I will admit, I don’t have any helicopter experience outside of the Robinson. I currently fly and maintain an R44. There’s a lot of social media hate toward Robinson, some of it justified, and much of it because it’s “cool.” The risk of mast bumping is an issue that can be brought to an acceptable risk level through pilot education and training. However, it seems that many of the recent accidents in Robinson helicopters seem to be CFIT (including wire strikes) and VFR into IMC; which tend to be the biggest causes of helicopter accidents over the entire industry. I believe the R44 is a solid product and a safe helicopter if respected, and their extensive operational experience all over the world is a testament to the design and safety.

[@HelicopterGround]

Thanks for sharing Sarah!

[@jointstrike2]

the R22, if you can fly it well, you can fly any helicopter.

[@HelicopterGround]

Exactly!!

[@theshazman]

Nearing 100 hours on the R22.. I absolutely love it, I just wish it was a bit more forgiving on the main rotor inertia aspect. But I also realize that is the reason the R44 exists. You just have to understand the machine, respect the limits and fly it according to those rules.

[@HelicopterGround]

Totally agree

[@Deathvalleyherper]

Theres no controversy, Robinsons arent machines for beginners. The price point makes them attractive to flight schools. Stop putting beginners in advanced machines, its that simple.

[@HelicopterGround]

Thanks for commenting.

[@jointstrike2]

Robinson is an engineering company who happens to make helicopters

[@HelicopterGround]

Thanks for commenting

[@HongyaMa]

Brantley Helicopters has that beat, N Brantley engineered machines that made bras who also made flying Ice cream cones

[@Benjampul]

It's simple, in 2024 much better designs are available and training pilots for a flawed design is not an acceptable response. Also ask any pilot over 6ft tall how uncomfortable they are. Robinson's are made for short ass pilots.

[@helicopter2992]

i'm 6'3" and fit fine

[@Benjampul]

You clearly haven't flown much in an R22; then.... Can't even fly two 6" 3 people / pilots unless you fly over weight

[@HelicopterGround]

Thanks for commenting

[@HongyaMa]

@@Benjampul If you have to be poured into a seat you'll most lightly not fit in any helicopter. External load vertical reference?

[@IslandCreek]

RUNNNN NOOO Get to the CHOPPA!

[@HelicopterGround]

Thanks for the feedback.

[@lookingforwookiecopilot]

I went into helicopters not knowing a thing about helicopters, or the different types. My first flight was in an R22 and at no point did I ever think that I'd rather be in another make/model. My second flight after getting my PPL was in a Schweizer for a rental checkout and the first thing I said after that flight was, "Are you sure there's nowhere out here to rent an R22", lol. I don't love Robinson, but I do love the R22. I've got 500 solo hours in the R22 and I wouldn't trade a single one for time in any other helicopter. Its the best two seat piston ever built! ,...the R44? After 100 hours in it, I could take it, or leave it, lol. 😎

[@HelicopterGround]

Thanks for sharing!

[@rico9112]

Commercial pilot 101 on the works?

[@HelicopterGround]

Not at this time!

[@chippyjohn1]

Rotor system is terrible, engine is terrible, drive system is terrible. The amount of robinsons with cylinder heads over heating and valve sticking is terrible. Then there is drive belt failure. Also mast bumping. Salesman always say their products are good.

[@HelicopterGround]

Thanks for commenting

[@HongyaMa]

Chippy on the shoulder? Of the 20+ Robinsons I took care of we only had 1 stuck valve (Lycombing issue) 1 rolled belt (Mechanic missed a sheave groove) over a 10 year period logging 12 hour days fleet wide and Mast bump is a simi rigid under slung system problem = Bell Hiller Robinson . . .

[@chippyjohn1]

@Lostdeltallc There are heaps of issues with the engine. Point is its a terrible obsolete engine. People say they are reliable while disregarding all the unscheduled maintenance they require.

[@mmoly-cj4bd]

The rotor head looks very small and fragile to me on the R22 compared to something like the old Bell 47. I know the Bell is a little bigger but the R22 kinda' looks like a large toy helicopter.

[@HelicopterGround]

Thanks for sharing!

[@HongyaMa]

In the 80s Tim Tucker (#1 Robinson dealer) came to you. R-22. R 44, H 300, B 47, Brantley, Enstrom, OH 58, UH 1, 212. S 58 It's the pilot not the machine.

[@HelicopterGround]

Exactly!

[@HongyaMa]

@@Lostdeltallc So what's your excuse? Certified to the minimum standards... If you think there's fraud call the FAA.

[@savagecub]

Not a fan !

[@HelicopterGround]

Thanks for commenting

[@victormontalbano4993]

It’s all envy

[@HelicopterGround]

Thanks for commenting

[@thatguy7085]

I did my private in the R22, then commercial in the R44, and flew the R66 at the factory. I was 180 when I flew the R22. I’m 210 now and don’t like the R22 now. I will only fly the R44 or R66 now.

[@HelicopterGround]

Thanks for sharing!

[@rollamichael]

Hmmm, my guess would be that a lot of Robinson bashing is from 0 time "pilots".

[@HelicopterGround]

Exactly!

[@PK1967-u8h]

Those things just look cheap and flimsy. I wouldn’t fly in one. Even the R66 turbine model looks lame. Hugh’s/mcdonald Douglas any day over those things. Come on….everyone knows it.

[@HelicopterGround]

Thanks for commenting