Love Falls Short in Rob Bell's Love Wins and The Shack by Paul Young

Rob Bell, pastor of Mars Hill Bible Church and author of Love Wins and William P. Young, author of The Shack have been the center of attention on the subject of universalism. Yet neither are universalists. They both believe free will may keep people in Hell forever. True Biblical universalists believe Jesus Christ is the Savior of the whole world.

[@brucelawson6070]

your message has installed hope in me I do not know what is wrong with me but now I am starting to see thanks to your teachings I have tried for a very long time[29 years] to gain a strong faith I have never hit the mark I some how fall short until now i feel as though God has left me. I want God and Jesus more than anything. My wife seems to hold the same view as you that it is in my head that lines up with the free will that you talk about. I do worry about Hell but I have been looking at your teaching for about one month now and it is installing a different outlook in my life. Thanks so much

[@tentmaker777]

Well, Bruce, when it drops from your head to your heart, you'll start cookin'. :-)

[@cathyduran150]

I believe, we are being saved from sin when we have true faith (That God is Love), which is also a gift of God. We are all saved from eternal death which is the wages of sin, because Christ rose from the died and conquered sin and death. I am a Christian Universalist, because of His grace, He has chosen to teach me this truth. Wonderful video.

[@Gonecoastalinalabama]

Cathy I know you posted this 5 years ago, but I want to say, God is revealing this truth to me. Exactly what you are saying is true. God is love and we are all saved already, we just have to come understand and accept the reality of what Jesus already did.

[@tentmaker777]

Well, the church leaders have made sure these books were NOT available to the average person. That would be the end of most of the churches that have been built on tithes and fear of man.

[@husq48]

So if it's not my free will, what am I to do? This doctrine of Hell has nearly driven me insane on many occasions! I have been through most of the Protestant denominations and the Catholic Church, all with brief moments of hope, leading to further despair. I am now considering another religion all together, or no belief at all...

[@TrustinJC]

@SPOKENFOR36 Which verse says God CREATED EVIL?

[@TrustinJC]

@Spokenfor36 Pt 2 God is clearly talking about punishment and the calamity that it will bring upon people. In verse 9 He talks about the sorrow that awaits those who argue with their creator (as you do). That passage is speaking of punishment and sorrows. It is not speaking of evil in the way that you think of evil as being a creation. Stop reading what you believe and start believing what you read.

[@skweeza169]

I once tried to buy a CONCORDANT LITERAL NEW TESTAMENT from a local huge christian book store and they had never heard of it. I now have one I bought from your 'tentmaker ministries'.

[@TrustinJC]

@tentmaker777 Christ invites everyone, but not everyone invited will be accepted. Those who show up wearing garments of this world will be thrown out, as Jesus describes in one of his parrables. Scripture never says everyone will be saved. It says every knee will bow and confess him as lord. But Jesus tells us that not everyone who confesses him as lord will be saved. The writings of Enoch also state that all will bow and confess, but many will be turned away because it will be too late.

[@TrustinJC]

@SPOKENFOR36 And why does God draw some and not others? Does he caste lots, or draw straws? Of course not. he draws those who know his voice. He draws those that He recognizes as being children of God rather than children of satan. Did God create evil, or is evil simply the absence of good (God)? One thing to be sure though, He does use evil (those who do not fear Him) for his own purpose and for the glory of his kingdom.

[@keithlmh]

Does anyone know what God blotting someones name from the lambs book of life means, if not eternal death? I am not asking to start an argument, I genuinely want to know. Thanks.

[@tentmaker777]

@TrustinJC: Tell that to apostle Paul. He never preached Hell except to declare victory over it! Ha. 1 Cor. 15:55, 56 Yes, Jesus is indeed the Savior of all mankind even though devils disguised as Christians continue to defame the precious Lamb of God who takes away THE SIN OF THE WORLD. Some believe it, some don't. Oh, ye of so little faith. Why do you doubt?

[@jefferyvonlindt]

I love this site! Thank you, Dale Thompson , for sharing this link!

[@rbell63303]

if man had free will God could not harden pharaohs heart or stopped the tower of babel.etc etc.

[@rbell63303]

***** lol

[@swampratzozzle]

Actually, Pharaoh's heart was hardened in response to God, doesn't mean God did the hardening.

[@Nerosii]

swampratzozzle it says he hardened his heart 0.o And the LORD hardened the heart of Pharaoh, and he hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had spoken unto Moses. Exodus 9:12

[@swampratzozzle]

That doesn't mean God does that. Otherwise he is a psychotic freak. Stop taking the Bible for more than it is. It is men attempting to describe God. Sometimes they get it right sometimes they don't, just like in any book. If God is not willing that any should perish, the last thing he will do is harden someone. It is like the sun. Some things soften in it, some things harden. All claims about what God does or doesn't do MUST be run through what Jesus showed us about how God is. He is the exact representation of God. Period. End of story. the rest is misconceptions.

[@Nerosii]

swampratzozzle I believe he won't let any Perish.. that's why Jesus came.. some people were born to be wicked.. for what reasons idk. I agree with you, I think the English bible is fallible.. I trust God, before I trust anyone else.. it seems reasonable to show why he neccesary.. why instead of trusting mans law and mans governance we should trust God.

[@texantony2410]

Amen brother. Truth was spoken.

[@misslaciface89]

Can I ask you a burning question that I've been having in my heart? Well I've been wondering if satan and his fallen angels will be destroyed in the lake of fire judgement or will they be cleansed and purified like us?

[@tentmaker777]

I'm not hitting Rob, I'm hitting a concept of God that still allows people to be eternally separated from Him by the lie of "free will." I guess you've never been at the bottom of the heap being completely self-condemned. People need faith in the finished work of Christ, NOT "free will." THAT is the issue I'm addressing in this video. Rob Bell and Paul Young just happen to be popuar authors selling this concept. It's better than the traditional gospel, but still no cigars. oh, rob is not a unie.

[@KingdomUploader]

"empty hell"? Doesn't hell exists for devils or will these fallen angels also be reconciled to God?

[@matsandersson5546]

Yes they will the bible says it.

[@tentmaker777]

Visit the Tentmaker Ministries site and read "The Bible Hell." There IS NOT HELL. It's for nobody. It's a myth borrowed from pagan religions and incorporated into church teachings 1600 years ago. The wages is sin is DEATH, not being endlessly tortured.

[@tentmaker777]

Yes, I agree with you.

[@93Knowledge]

Hey how did you get or make your website? Thanks

[@racheladkins6060]

So why become a Christian?

[@swampratzozzle]

The Shack isn't even about Universalism. It doesn't even address it. It is about "The God who showed up and healed me" as Paul YOung says. He does, in his talks etc, address "universalism". The way I look at it, his views are at least a step in the right direction. Neither Young nor Rob Bell espouse damnation or eternal punishment for ANYONE, but believe that all he does is motivated by love and is restorative and never ever punative.

[@tentmaker777]

Yes, a step in the right direction.

[@LarryLarpwell]

its over for the sandwich board guys with flames on them, sadly lordship nonsense already ruined my life but at least i know its just this short period of time

[@resurrectionway]

the word free is an illusion we are not made free in Christ because there is no such thing as free. i think we should say we are liberated and not free.

[@jerryjamify]

even the use of the word hell is misused, hell in most places mean the grave. I believe in a corrective punishment, one day God will open all eyes in each persons time and God knows what each need in their spirit to repent and it wont be difficult without the flesh and the devil..

[@TrustinJC]

@tentmaker777 So you are a Pauline follower rather than a Christ follower? Why did Jesus preach repentance if repentance is not required? Why preach the good news gospel if knowledge of Christ is not required? Why teach about hell if hell is not real? Why warn of wolves and decietful teachings if ALL are saved? The path is narrow and difficult, and few will find it. Not everyones name is written in the book of life. Stop reading what you believe and start believing what you read.

[@TrustinJC]

@Cutie9326 You than, are cursing Christ. for he taught a great deal about hell. And the doctrine of hell is based on OT writings. The problem is that you do not have ALL of God's word when you restrict yourself to the bible. If you curse the teaching of Hell, than you are cursing God, Christ, and the Holy Spirit. For all 3 stand as witness to the truth of hell.

[@tentmaker777]

@TrustinJC Actually, you are the Pharisee who damns everyone except self-righteous folks such as yourself. I preach Christ crucified for all, some come to Christ on this side of the grave, some come later, each in his own own order, that's not for me to decide. Our ministry brings FAR more people to Christ than hypocrites like yourself who think they are better than the rest. I know! When I read your self-righteous posts, they remind me of when I taught your perverted gospel. lord open his eyes

[@sonnymustarseed7034]

Love Wins was a good gateway book that helped me get to the meat and potatoes of the Victorious Gospel

[@TrustinJC]

@SPOKENFOR36 It is my will to sin. The writings of Enoch tells us that God knew the nature of Adam, but Adam didn't. The temptation of the tree served to show Adam and Eve their own evil natures. Their eyes being opened to the fact they rebelled against God, they were ashamed. So at least they knew enough to be ashamed, where as you do not. Paul also tells us the law reveals our sinful nature. Scripture tells us we choose who we serve. Some choose to serve God, others choose satan.

[@TrustinJC]

@tentmaker777 Those who never hear will be judged differently than those who hear and chose to reject, or those who hear and claim to confess Christ as lord but than continue to live as the world. People who never hear about Christ or the good news gospel will be judged according to the law God has placed upon their hearts. For Paul explains that God has placed His law on every heart.

[@TrustinJC]

@SPOKENFOR36 You reject freewill. You believe god will force people to be made into robots. You reject the idea of righteous justice. You look at only one part of God's character and disregard that part of god which is holy and will not tolerate evil, rebellion and disobedience. The problem is that you do not understand evil as God has layed it out in scripture. For if you did, you would not condemn God for condemning the unrighteous and rebellious.

[@TrustinJC]

John the baptist was humble, yet shouted out that people needed to repent and turn from sin. Jesus was the MOST humble, yet commanded people repent and turn from sin. All of the apostles taught the same thing. You preach though that we don't need Jesus and don't need to repent. You preach that conversion comes after death. You are like the pharisees who won't enter the kingdom, and you keep the keys from others, ensuring they also go to hell.

[@TrustinJC]

@tentmaker777 I was a sinner. But have now been made into a new creature with a new regenerated heart and mind. I wear the yoke of Christ, which is not burdensome, and I have his promise that I'll never be given more temptation than I can handle. It is the righteous who recieve the get out of jail card. The warm christian, however, or the washed pig that returns to the mud will find they do not recieve this card, for they reject the gift of salvation.

[@usnavyrox]

I loved Love wins. I hear what you are saying about the review in comparison to universalism, but they are a huge start in the direction of detoxing peoples minds. I would just say it is a slow detox, and maybe it has to be. I highly recommend them also.

[@jordandyck7966]

I mean this with sincerity and humility and I’m willing to be corrected. I so desperately want what you’re saying to be true about Jesus being the Saviour of THE WORLD, not a few who find the “oh so difficult” narrow road. It has always seemed to me like I have to “work out” my salvation, whereas Jesus saves me but I have to still work it out (whatever that means). I want to fully trust the saving arms of Christ, not my own fleeting and weak lack of faith. I believe that it is Christ’s faith that rises up in me, for I don’t have enough, but he gives it to me as a gift. So my question is, if everyone gets saved, why preach the gospel? And how are we to understand God avenging us who have been hurt in atrocious ways? How are we to understand his wrath? Again I ask this in humility, and I’m not attacking in my tone. I’m willing to listen, or be directed to any material that can help me. Thanks!

[@Turner2503]

@TrustinJC "Not inheriting the Kingdom of God" has absolutely nothing to do with not ever being saved. Only the CHOSEN FEW will inherit the Kingdom of God, and will rule and reign with Jesus Christ. But ALL will receive salvation in the judgment.

[@racheladkins6060]

I’m changing my mind from the Traditional views which I am struggling view.

[@TrustinJC]

@Cutie9326 You wouldn't say that if you had ALL of God's word. The story of the rich man and Lazarus is not a parable. Hell is described in great detail in the writings of Enoch, which is the most referenced book of any book in or outside of the bible. Hell was taught prior to Christ coming on the scene. It is real, and many are headed there. Especially those people who deny it's existence. Don't be fooled by the father of lies.

[@tentmaker777]

@TrustinJC If I were to interpret taht verse according to your distorted interpretation, there is no need to preach the gospel, no need to go to church, no need to read the Bible. But the fact is, the Bible says God uses the foolishness of PREACHING to bring the gospel to people. You want to circumvent what is plainly written to make your doctrines more palatable. The traditional gospel has most of mankind rotting in Hell. You want to find a way to make heaven a little larger. it doesn't work.

[@tentmaker777]

@TrustinJC You are surely mad, insane. There are billions who never heard the name of Jesus and yet you say Christ invites everyone. What planet do you live on? Surely not on earth AND not in heavenly Jerusalem because people there are not as stupid and heartless as what you express in your posts. "And if, if I am lifted up from the earth will draw (literally drag) all mankind unto Myself." Does He drag them to Him only to then throw them into eternal flames of wrath. Man you have a wicked heart

[@tentmaker777]

@TrustinJC Dear Jesus, please show this "self" righteousness man, that there isn't a nickel's worth of difference between him and the Pharisees in Matt. chapter 23. Friend, you will discover probably the hard way, that your present attitude qualifies you for the sin of Jerusalem. Ezekiel chapter 16. Whole chapter. Your sins are twice those of Sodom. If you WERE wearing the yoke of Jesus, you wouldn' be so self-righteous, you'd be humble. I doubt there's a humble cell in your body.

[@tentmaker777]

@1macboo 1Co 1:18 I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent. Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

[@tentmaker777]

Jesus preached repentance to ISRAEL. "I have not come but to the house of Israel." Jesus knew the O.T. was passing away, the Jews needed to leave the O.T. to enter the N.T., the truly Good News! Anyone who has read Josephus' War of the Jews knows most Jews did not repent and suffered a most disgraceful destruction of Jerusalem.

[@tentmaker777]

Tell that to apostle Paul. He never preached Hell except to declare victory over it! Ha. 1 Cor. 15:55, 56 Yes, Jesus is indeed the Savior of all mankind even though devils disguised as Christians continue to defame the precious Lamb of God who takes away THE SIN OF THE WORLD. Some believe it, some don't. Oh, ye of so little faith. Why do you doubt?

[@SwordofManticorE]

If there is a an eternal hell that is real, then how does love win?

[@jessiesineath7702]

The concept of a forever burning hell is astonishing. I am a father of a 3 year old. I understand real genuine unconditional love. The Bible says we are made in God's likeliness and Image. Well if this is true then the idea of a burning hell is like holding a knife to my little girls neck and saying, I love you and you better love me back or I will cut your throat . But hell is even worse because its "never ending torture" The concept of someone being about to have a heart felt prayer life to someone to do that is blasphemy to Christ's character

[@tentmaker777]

Acts 3:21 speaks of the "restoration of all things." and Revelation says, "Behold, I make all things new."

[@artbyrobot1]

If man has ZERO freewill then preaching the gospel is folly. God will just save them in his timing anyways. To deny freewill and ANY ability of man is folly. God says save yourselves from this wicked and perverse generation. Man has a part to play. It says anyone that has this hope in him purifies himself even as Christ is pure. WE do it and God does it with us. It says humble yourself. We can do something. It says draw near to God and he will draw near to you. It says strive to enter by the narrow gate - something you can do. His denial of free will is so wrong.

[@tentmaker777]

@TrustinJC Are you a sinner trustinJC? Am I enabling you in your sins? Or are you quite adept in performing your sins in the dark without my help? And why should God give you an get out of jail free card while He consigns other sinners to eternal damnation? does He play favorites? Is He a hypocrite? Or does the hypocrisy lie on your lap?

[@simthiam3712]

All are saved, even Beyond Grave, and we are preaching this Good News to express our gratitude as well as to share this Good News with everyone .

[@Turner2503]

@TrustinJC "…for without Me, YE CAN DO NOTHING" (John 15:5) And that means ABSOLUTELY NOTHING .Not only can we not deliver ourselves from sin; we CANNOT even truly repent of our sins by our own will. This too requires a miracle from God. Repentance is NOT predicated upon the "free will" of man, BUT ON THE WILL OF GOD. . Hell is a lie. I look forward to the day when you see this.

[@Turner2503]

@TrustinJC Did Jesus obey His God and Father, without a cause? "Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, [truly, truly-what Jesus is about to say is the Gospel Truth!] I say unto you, THE SON CAN DO NOTHING OF HIMSELF…" (John 5:19). "THE SON CAN DO NOTHING OF HIMSELF" Can we obey our Lord Jesus Christ, without a cause?

[@michelleemanuel8222]

I have not read love wins....but I read the shack...opened my heart to a whole different concept of God... However it teaches nothing...its a work of fiction...

[@Okieshowedem]

Acts 4:12 is not up to be voted on by anyone. Hebrews 1:4 says that Father YAHweh gave His Resurrected Son the NAME ABOVE ALL names. ResearchHallelu-YAHwehShua on Facebook. May the Spirit that inspired the prophets and apostles to write to us bless your understanding.

[@racheladkins6060]

You need to tidy your shelves up, it would better.

[@racheladkins6060]

Maybe they fall short, but it helps people with Pentecostal Christians in changing there minds on the traditional view. So what are “these books”? Then. Show us the books one by one. I need to know? I don’t want to see spines, so show it?

[@YirmeyahuWeeps]

SO SO SO SO GOOD!! There are so many Truths in this video! So many. Gary, I truly thank the Father Who loves us that you are here on youtube. I hope and pray that He continues blessing you & your wife, and all your family, with all reassurance, & every good thing. Thank you for this priceless gem

[@Huddie400]

It all sounds good for the average person and I do NOT agree with "turn or burn" -- but what about the Hitlers and Stalins and all those who carried out their evil? I can't say I really want to spend eternity with Hitler.

[@Why.am.I.here...]

I think we all have that initial response. I also think it is our fallen human nature's response. If Jesus, while hanging on the cross, in the midst of His agony, asked the Father to forgive those who put Him there, then that is the Way. He asks us to follow Him! Also, picture Hitler as a new born baby, growing up in a loving and healthy family. He might have turned out a different person. It's not a guarantee, but at least a possibility. Likewise, in our fallen nature, growing up in the wrong circumstances, we ALL could have turned out to be like a Hitler. Not a guarantee, but still a possibility. Would you want Jesus to forgive you and save you from your insanity in that case? So, in my humanness I would want the tormentor to be tormented (as long as that tormentor is not me 😏). Eye for an eye, right? But that is not the Way of our Lord and Savior as He demonstrated it in His life and death and ressurrection. ❤️

[@TrustinJC]

@SPOKENFOR36 LOL. Really. Your going to base the doctrine of God creating evil on one verse? And do you always use the KJV, or only when it is the only translation that suits your needs? Verse 7 of the NLT reads: I send the good times and the bad times. I, the Lord, am the one who does these things. There happen to be many passages that state God is Holy, righteous, and incapable of doing evil. So try reading the verse in context. Con't

[@TrustinJC]

@SPOKENFOR36 So you believe God wants robots? Really? No freewill? He's created a world where He controls every thought and act of every creature? He doesn't desire us to chose Him? Have you taken the time to listen to yourself or those that you parrot?

[@oldnickdonaldsfarm9720]

As a keeper of sheep, I do not agree that you can drag them. When you try to drag a lamb to the mother to nurse, they fight back and back up. You can carry them to the mother to suckle, but they must then latch on by themselves,and then they will begin to nurse. I have to come to see the traditional doctrine of hell as false, and have believed in annihilationism and inclusivism for some time, but can't find a group of believers to fellowship with who see the traditional doctrines of hell as false. I am investigating and seeing much of the truths of christian universalism now. I was born a catholic and as a young child prayed for all people to be in heaven some day and was a happy child despite my father's mental illness. After my father's suicide and brother's mental illness and eventual suicide, I committed my life to Christ,and have spent many years in various protestant churches searching for the real truth. I do not agree with calvinism at all and saw many rotten fruits in the calvinistic and partially calvinistic churches I was in; especially pride and greed( just try to do business with them). In catholicism, there is much mental illness and alcoholism due to the doctrine of demons and idolatry that leads to demon oppression and possession. In fundamentalism and legalism absent of calvinism, there is much pride and hypocrisy, such as Jack Hiles as a serial adulterer and his followers lording it over the sheep that they beat up each week from the pulpit. I have a problem with the second death and lake of fire with being the means to bring one to the Lord Jesus Christ, as it is by His grace and perfect sacrifice that we are made right with God. I know God is much more loving and gracious than He is taught to be in Catholicism and Protestantism, but I have a very hard time seeing that grace and love considering if the bondage of the will is true.

[@tentmaker777]

+Oldnick Donaldsfarm Finding group fellowship around the message of universal salvation is, I must confess, a lonely walk in some respects, but then the job of sheep keeper from a Middle Eastern point of view is also a lonely walk, is it not? Maybe it's part of the training for work in His Kingdom? :-)

[@oldnickdonaldsfarm9720]

+tentmaker777 Can you lead me to resources showing a proper interpretation of gehenna, the second death, lake of fire, and burning with fire and brimstone that makes sense with Christian universalism? I believed it made sense when going with annihilation. I can see all the verses that show the salvation of all mankind, but don't see how to reconcile it with the above teachings on final punishment. I have studied tentmaker a fair amount and started reading the restitution of all things by Juke which is quite deep, but haven't found an explanation for gehenna, the second death etc. I was reading about some explanation of this by L. Ray Smith. When I first came to agree with annihilation, it took me at least 6 months, as verses would enter my mind that seemed to contradict, and I had to find an explanation that properly lined up with rest of scripture, and needed to look at the original language. Either that is the Lord leading me to find out the truth, or it takes a long time to deconstruct the false ideas that have been implanted over 49 years.

[@tentmaker777]

@TrustinJC It is the foolishness of the preaching of the gospel (Paul's words) that brings salvation in this lifetime. I am constrained by the love of Christ to preach His Victory. I do not do this in shame, in fear but in joy. It is the labor of the world. But that preaching does not stop at the grave, it goes beyond the grave. His gospel, whether preached in this side or the other side will "draw all mankind to Himself." believe it.

[@pUnKrOcKnINjAgAmEr]

Man I wish they had these books,bibles(universal reconciliation) at major book stores so more could know now. Yet, that's easily remedied with the fact that God is control.

[@SlungDungVideos]

If Jesus is the savior of all mankind (I believe that he is) then why do you say Jesus “will save” all mankind instead of Jesus "has saved” all mankind. Additionally, if Jesus came to seek and to save those who are lost, but that salvation is only at some future date then Jesus failed in his original mission to save the lost on the cross when he “dragged all men to himself." Humanity won’t get better and can’t get any worse so it needed to be saved along time ago in 33AD.

[@tentmaker777]

+Shean Smith The Scriptures lay out that we have been saved, we are being saved and we shall be saved. Our Father is building a many-membered body over many ages. In His mind, it is finished. Then He spoke the Word into Creation. And then creation will be set free from its bondage to corruption. So then salvation is a process. To see the finished work of Cross, one must be seated in heavenly places with the mind of Christ.Otherwise, doubt and fear will cloud the truth. Hope that helps. Peace....

[@SlungDungVideos]

+tentmaker777 Thank you for your clarification. I understand your clarification well and it does help. I hate monikers, but I’ve been labeled a “pantelist” because I hold to a complete fulfillment of eschatology and soteriology by 70AD, but it ain’t a hill to die on. :-) My time in historic Christianity as a Southern Baptist seminary graduate and pastor has seen a lot of confusion go from bad to worst in regards to eschatology and soteriology. Shame, guilt, and fear seems to be the modus operandi of historic Christianity and is what kept me in check for most of my life.

[@tentmaker777]

+Shean Smith Hey, drop me an email, I'd like to speak with you. Visit tentmaker.org and use the contact button; give me a little heads up in the email about your interest in eschatology. Thanks.

[@SlungDungVideos]

+tentmaker777 I sent you an email. :-)

[@tentmaker777]

If you read Matthew 25:46 commentary at the tentmaker ministries site, you'll find your answer to Matt. 25:41. Regarding faith, gee, that's question requires a lot more words this form allows. "No one can come to the father unless he draws them." Jesus said, "I will draw all mankind to myself." Faith come FROM Jesus, not from us, but it requires use, it has to be expressed in action. I "got saved" so to speak when Jesus revealed Himself to me 27 years ago. email me. I can't explain here.

[@Origen17]

As proponents of the good news of the Restoration of All Things, we need to embrace Bell's success as a sign of the awakening of the heart of Christians to God's true character. While what you say is true to a degree, I don't believe we need to say anything negative about Rob at all. Let's give thanks to the Father that people are beginning to break out of the bondage of the doctrine of eternal torture. Let's bless Rob, not curse him - Join arms, not call out any shortcomings.

[@oceangrove129]

Thank you Gary, I liked your point about "We didn't choose this Life of Sin & Death," it's synonymous with: " We didn't choose to be born." Thanks for somewhat exposing The Myth of Free will. Every choice We make has a prior Cause or Influence, whether internal or external. There's no way around this. The teaching of Free Will is in Total Conflict & Contradiction to God's Sovereignty.

[@k0smon]

Reference Carlton Pearson, to whom it was revealed that no one goes to hell for unbelief. He calls it the Gospel of Inclusion.

[@BatFan123]

Dude .... I liked the video .... but now what ?? I left "The Church of Christ" a long time ago because those "Christians" gave me the creeps. I've been left alone, despaired, utterly discouraged and hopeless for years on end. Needless to say I've been suffering from depression and anxiety ever since they started to teach me the doctrine of hell, the devil, demons and spirits at age of 17 years. I was just a little kid by sort of speech !!!! "Finding group fellowship around the message of universal salvation is, I must confess, a lonely walk in some respects" These are your own words, and I find this a good one to be honest, a terrible understatement if you ask me. The only few people that will believe me when I speak out about this, that is if I find the courage to do so, will be the unbelievers. All the so called "Christians" will hate me for it and say I'm going straight to hell. But then again , can't be much worse then it is now, all those people left me for the dirt and filth of the earth and with the garbage anyway ..... They called it "The Good News" too .... , lol, I've been around in any Pentecostal or Evangelical church you can imagine or think of .... I know a thing or two about insanity you could say. Might get interesting .... 😂😂😂 Thank you Gary Amirault !!!! You are my main man !!! 😂

[@lc2077]

Hey I don’t know if you will get this considering how long ago you wrote this, but I really hope you’ve found some Christian Universalist friends. Sending you lots of love! God bless 💜🙏

[@tentmaker777]

"The Shack" was a piece of fiction. Would you recommend all Christian fiction be censored? I'm sure William P. Young does not believe God the Father is a woman? In Christ there is neither male nor female. Personally, I don't care for fiction, Christian or otherwise. The reality of God in my life makes fiction quite boring to me. Jesus said, "I have come that you might have life and more abundantly."

[@tentmaker777]

@1macboo I cannot explain to you the mystery of verses in the Bible like "As many as were ordained believed." When the word of God comes, some hear thunder and some hear the word of God. God choose who He calls to open their mouth and he ordains which vessel will respond. It is not my call who will respond, but it is my call to open my mouth. 26 years ago, God filled my mouth and heart with the message of reconciliation. The Lord harvests as He wills and He will have all peoples be saved.

[@volodymyrvolf3889]

24:53-For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that everyone who BELIEVES IN HIM shall not perish but have eternal life. John 3: 16 Yes it is our faith in Jesus Christ that saves. The one believing in Him is not judged, but the one not believing already has been judged, because he has not believed in the Name of the only begotten Son of God. John 3: 18 Please read the Bible don't listen to this man because he will lead you to death and destruction he doesn't even know nor understand how one is saved by faith in Jesus Christ.

[@tentmaker777]

@1macboo I'm glad they have been written too.

[@SilverCyclist]

Saved from what?

[@resurrectionway]

Jesus does not have to power to save anyone if it is not given to him to do so. who saved him. Jesus didn't save himself, the father saved him. the father is the savior of all not Jesus

[@keithlmh]

@Cutie9326 Thanks for your response. But even if it in the tree of life instead of the book of life, then what does that mean? If he separates you from the tree of life, isn't that the same? I am not trying to argue with you, I just want some answers. Thanks.

[@rd2b11]

"If you want something done, ask a busy person." ...so, I'm waiting for you to do a You Tube audiobook reading of Charles Slagle's "Absolute Assurance of Jesus Christ" (cited around 21 minutes in) ....or perhaps the new YT copyright laws preclude that(?).

[@77goanywhere]

This is wonderful. I came into the revelation of God's universal love and grace by being introduced to ministries like Paul Young, Baxter Kruger, Steve McVey et al. And it has been a powerful and liberating revelation. But I agree, they do fall short of the ultimate revelation of the Apokatastasis. I thank God for them for bringing me this far, but I thank you for confirming what I have felt, but was not explicitly taught by these ministries. I actually believe that these other teachers do know that salvation is universal. They come so close. But I think that they underestimate the bondage to insanity that sin is, and they over estimate "free will". Jesus said "Father forgive them because THEY KNOW NOT WHAT THEY DO". Jesus made the appeal for his Father to save us who are in bondage to INSANITY. The thing that I hear over and over again from friends, and in the media, is "the world has gone mad". This is the truth of Christ expressing itself in the pain of every person. We were all born into an insane asylum! But praise and glory to Him our rescuer, who has come!

[@tentmaker777]

Steve, more and more people who perhaps fell short at the time I did that video have moved further along William P. Young being an example. I haven't kept up with some of the other folks, you may want to try to contact them. I think some of the others you mentioned have found that Jesus truly is indeed the Savior of all mankind, loser of none. I'm glad our Father has opened your eyes. Waves of grace to you.

[@77goanywhere]

@@tentmaker777 I agree with your assessment of Paul Young. His later videos portray a much stronger agreement with universalism. Remember that he wasn't setting himself up as a theologian when he wrote The Shack. It was a parable of his journey out of brokenness as God ministered love and truth to him. I have watched videos of his testimony and it is very powerful. He certainly doesn't deny that he believes in universal atonement, and he says that he is a universalist in the Christian sense of salvation only being in Christ. As for me I am so glad I found you on KZbin. I am planning g to delve into your website and the resources you offer there.

[@tentmaker777]

mucho thankos!

[@futbolfreakforlife]

Even if those two authors don't go "far" enough, can't we still say it's a great start to getting universalism, even if in its weakest form, into the limelight Gary? Or do you think it's harmful?

[@futbolfreakforlife]

Well, actually you pretty much answered my question after I watched the rest of the video...haha :)

[@misplacedwonder]

i bought rob bell's book, i found it terrifying, as usual, i found him to be a con man.... he hyped his book with the hope of universalism and it was just the same old same old

[@misplacedwonder]

+Billy James yes, he fooled the whole world, he is a sheister, promising universalism and then back peddling after he made all the money from creating a lie to sell books, liar, shiester, i bought his book on audible and returned it... at least when i wrote a book on the subject it was honest and offered the real deal... too bad i didn't have his marketing team

[@stevenfrasier5718]

I do believe in true Biblical Universal Salvation. I also believe we have free will. I don't see a contradiction, Gary. I know that it's not our will but God's will that saves us. God saves us IN SPITE OF our free will, Gary. The Elect are like ants and God bends branches to make us walk onto each leaf He wills, until we get to the destination. See? No contradiction, my brother. He created us with free will or else how can we genuinely love Him? Martin Zender and now you too? Come on Gary! I want to meet with you in person some day in the not-too-distant future.

[@stevenfrasier5718]

God's powers of persuasion without transgression of free will is what I'm trying to convey. I'm not a theologian. Btw, I'm a trained stage actor working as a pressure cleaner at a smoked-meat plant in Montreal, Quebec.

[@tentmaker777]

The church has fought on the issue of sovereignty and free will for hundreds of years. This place is to leave a comment or two; it's not a place to try to reason or argue this topic. I could argue scripturally both basic sides of this issue and a couple more, but not here.

[@stevenfrasier5718]

Okay, Gary. Maybe I'm wrong. Perhaps I'm being somewhat presumptuous. The last thing I want you to think of me is as a "KZbin Comments Troll". I'm rather new at making comments after so many years of viewership. I will put this particular topic "on the shelf of my mind" and pray that the Holy Spirit guide me. There's still so much for me to learn. I'm no where near as seasoned in The Word as you are. Thank you for responding. I love you, brother. Sorry to heavy-up on you like that and may God in Christ in you keep up this fantastic work.

[@opfipip3711]

Let us see it from the point of relationship. True and free relationship and true love can not work under constraint. We are called to have such a relationship with God. So God will no one coerce to believe in him or to love him. Having said this, I ask how God can give someone saving faith if that person does not want to have it? Some say, if Gods love is presented to a human beeing, that person cannot but love God in response. But the problem is that sinners try to protect themselves in their pride against God and his Love. And that they are under condemnation = under Gods wrath which holds them away from Gods love. I can not see how christian Universalists can solve that problem. I am not talking about "free" will. I am talking about our own will no matter how this will has been "produced" or how much it is in bondage. I agree with Luther that outside of Gods grace there is no real freedom to believe and to love. But the "unfree" will still is a will God is not just overturning. Therefore at the moment I tend to believe in annihilation. It is gracious after a period of Judgement and does not confront people with eternal agony. On the other side God is not coercing love relationship on someone who does not want it.

Opfi Pip God forced us to come into this world and be born into a world of sin and death, so why wouldnt he force us to accept a love relationship with Jesus?

[@pUnKrOcKnINjAgAmEr]

You make awesome vids Gary.

[@swampratzozzle]

Paul YOung doesn't in any way make a blanket denial of being a universalist. He points out, and rightfully so, that there are a number of things that can be meant by "universalism". So, it is not that simple.

[@tentmaker777]

He plainly stated that there is a possibility that not all mankind will be saved. That piece of leaven can leaven the whole pot; it's doubt in God's ability, power and promise to "reconcile all things to himself."

[@swampratzozzle]

I am not sure I would go so far as to say that, considering where he came from. It is a typical path from the ugly twisting of the Gospel that embraces penal substitution and a punishing God, to the point where we accept that God will indeed restore all things. It seems God does these things in gentle layers, and gentel deconstruction of deeply imbedded lies and misconceptions about God. My take on Paul is that he is progressing along this path. His emphasis is that God will never violate anyone and use force to reconcile, and theoretically people could resist HIs love for a long time. HOwever, it is clear HOly Spirit is leading him in the Truth. I think in the future you will see his stance change.

[@tentmaker777]

When I came into the kingdom of Jesus, I didn't choose to follow Him, He chose me. Same thing happened to Paul, same thing happened to Jesus' other disciples. "You didn't choose Me, I appointed you." One one comes to the Father unless the Father draws them. There is such a thing as election but not the way Calvinists have portrayed election. "Each in his own order."

[@swampratzozzle]

Paul Young would agree with you here, actually. Paul believe Father, Son and HOly Spirit actively pursue us. We respond in our own way. I think he is getting the picture. Paul seems very open, so I trust HOly Spirit will keep revealing the Truth to him. I have listened to hundreds of hours of his talks to see what he really believes. Like all of us, the scales on the eyes are being removed.

[@swampratzozzle]

He actually said "I don't know for sure, but I hope so (that all will be reconciled on THEIR side and respond - he already believes all are saved)"