Love Never Dies: Musical Hell Review #11

[@kenziecullen4434]

Andrew Lloyd Webber started writing this in 1990, the same year as his divorce from Sarah Brightman, the original Broadway Christine. Knowing that, this story goes from bad fan fiction to bad *self-insert fan fiction,* in which the the smarmy, funny-looking musical “genius” at least has the comfort of knowing he has the undying love of the beautiful and famous singer... subtle, Lloyd Webber. Reeeeeally subtle

[@unluckyone1655]

That was the impression I got too. It comes across to me that this whole musical is just one giant glammed up hot mess of a "fuck you" to his ex wife Sarah Brightman

[@Line...]

that's one subtle way to express your hatred for your ex-wife - killing her off in a sequel no one wanted or asked for

[@maurifick7471]

Line Wiik but it’s based off of a book. He didn’t really come up with the plot.

[@bawoman]

@@unluckyone1655 That would be weird since they get along incredibly well and still care about each other according to interviews of them together and apart

[@unluckyone1655]

I mean, yeah it sounds like they did indeed bury the hatchet and seem to be on good terms now. I mean, it's been over 20 years. But the fact of the matter is, their divorce back then was straight up tabloid fodder and because of that I have a hard time believing that they didn't have major beef with eachother for a long time. And I dont think ALW is above letting his grieviences seep into his work. My point still stands.

[@JoeEnglandShow]

Incidentally, isn't it kind of ironic that the name of the whole production is "Love Never Dies" when the story hinges on killing the love between Christine and Raoul?

[@tattie.b8594]

Joe England I think it’s called that as it’s the phantoms love that never died

[@KuriosRayn]

@@tattie.b8594 Unlike Christine

[@cynthiat6505]

Raoul killed that love, been there done that.

[@thebananaowenslippedon7095]

That’s why I prefer Jon matteson’s versión, The love story of death and his boyfriend travis

[@Dreigonix]

“Love never dies unless you kill it.” -DaThings1, _Devil Take The Toast_

[@PassTheMarmalade1957]

The thing that really broke my heart in this show is the moment when Christine discovers Raoul’s goodbye note, and it calls her Little Lotte. It’s the only expression of love in the show that comes across as genuine, and it comes from the guy who Christine just ditched for the Phantom, let alone the guy who's spent the whole show as an angry drunk and who we’re supposed to hate. It’s like a glimpse of the real Raoul, before he was Ron the Death-Eatered, coming back, and it just makes you feel all the more that this character got butchered.

[@Dreigonix]

Oh yes. It’s like he broke free of the mind control for one moment before succumbing to the OOC bonethief for good. Also, gosh, I see you _everywhere._

[@thessie]

Ron the WHAT

[@Nightman221k]

Raoul is such an unfairly hated on character. I actually really like him in the original musical and his relationship with Christine is sweet. I get that he's a simplistic good character but I think his affectionate, understanding, and protective traits are admirable. I think it's kind of crazy that even in a musical like LND that makes him a designated hate-sink on purpose, ends up making him look considerably less bad than the protagonists we're supposed to root for. Erik threatened to kill the son before he knew it was his offspring and threatened Christine, yet again. He squandered what redemption the original musical had for him when he allowed Christine to leave. Christine cheated on Raoul, lied to Raoul (which I'm going to say added to his depressive alcoholism), led him to believe the son they had was his biologically, and left him and took the kid. It's actually kinda horrifying to imagine your marriage being that full of deception and secrets.

[@animeotaku307]

@@thessie Ron the Death Eater.

[@happyjellycatsquid]

@@Nightman221k Not a HUGE fan of Raoul cause he sorta comes off as overbearing and bossy towards poor Christine in The Phantom of The Opera, although I have to enjoy Hadley Fraser’s performance of him regardless, but in LND… He’s actually my favourite character? Since ALW decided to destroy his character for no reason, my headcanon is that he is actually aware that Christine cheated in him with the Phantom and that Gustave isn’t his son. Convinced she’ll never really love him regardless of what he does to secure her affection (I mean her going off and banging the Phantom after the end of the original pretty much confirms that eh), he grows petty and bitter. His demons slowly eat away at him, forced as he is to provide for his wife’s love child with his attempted murderer, he starts resenting her yet can’t bring himself to leave her, which is why he turns to alcoholism and gambling, hoping Christine will actually leave him herself, freeing him of the sham she’s trapped him into. Bless his soul, he’s got to be the only character I somewhat like in LND

[@Jennifer-yt5wl]

I love "Beauty Underneath" when it's by itself... and it's a favorite prank of mine to have a friend listen to the song without any context, then ask "so how old would you guess the person he's singing to is?" "Oh, maybe she's in her low twenties, I guess?" "He's a ten-year-old boy." The looks on their face are priceless.

[@DerekMckean]

You should hear the London Gustave. The Aussie version was an upgrade. It almost sounds like Gustave is having an orgasm. OH YES. Hence, it comes off very weird. Plus, there was this monkey with multiple arms playing the instrument. But I do love the song. p.s. to the reviewer: this is a musical. Most alw musicals are sung through with very little dialogue. this one had lots of dialogue. However, complaining that a song is just too darn long is not a fair assessment.

[@DerekMckean]

+MorningGlow Fair enough. But do you believe in time stopping? Is it a rule that the plot must go on? There's good music and redundancy. Aspects of love has tons of non-needed redundancy that is not really song just sung lines. However, certain song's redundancy is granted forgiveness and even allowed by our consciousness to proceed. I like a good 8 minute song that gets you in the moment. Hand me the Wine and The Dice is forgiven since it is such an upbeat tone from of the rather dull sung lines. In fact, it actually does further the plot. Beneath a moonless Sky also is forgiven. If you were Christine, you'd understand it's need to be intimate with the audience. in fact, I love it. The beginning of it sounds like it came from The Godfather. The other ballad literally right after "Once Upon Another Time" is really figurative. But it's more about character developing. I'm not sure what the Phantom is referring to, but I'd agree that he is strong as he was before. Symbolically, it's a song about moving on with your live. You learn to live with what you have even though it's not the best. After what happened after phantom of the opera, whatever timeline happened, the Phantom turned the page and continued to live without Christine. In other words to accept defeat and "take what little we deserve." Although the Phantom moved on, he probably was heartbroken and as years moved on, it got harder for him. Again "Once Upon Another Time" is a VERY CRYPTIC song and is open to interpretation. Although it's not precise with their feelings, it's a song where you have to fill in the gaps. I think the feeling of a character is equally as inportant. Again, look up the lyrics to the song. It is cryptic. But doesn't tell how they kind of missed each other?

[@janeyrevanescence12]

Do you add "...who is also his son"?

[@Jennifer-yt5wl]

Yes. Yes, I do.

[@PhantomBones101]

I remember when I first heard the song I actually thought the same thing lol

[@theenglishman]

“Beneath a Moonless Sky” makes Voldemort and Bellatrix’ one-night stand in Cursed Child seem downright plausible by comparison.

[@zanite8650]

*has known nothing about TCC until now* I'm sorry what.

[@phylasvell]

HOLD ON WHAT

[@hannahvasby-burnie2477]

Yeah and they have a kid too. One of the many reasons I'm not seeing TCC

[@cherryspice1011]

theenglishman why did you have to remind me

[@thessie]

THAT'S the twist?!? Jesus chroist no wonder it went down like a lead balloon with fans

[@l.tc.5032]

Saying That song is written by 15 year old girls is an insult to 15 year old girls. I've heard better songs from teenage girls.

[@MusicalHell]

Fair point.

[@l.tc.5032]

Thanks

[@LaineMann]

This is especially true if you listen to jpop

[@alexandra040726]

L. T C. It's more like this song was written by justin bieber

[@sapphireseptember]

Agreed, Amy Lee wrote some fantastic stuff as a teenager!

[@adrienne-ukulelecraftsandm559]

“I looked into your heart and saw you PURE AND WHOLE” This guy killed 2 people , kidnapped and nearly forced you to marry him , nearly killed your fiancée and set the opera house on fire . Not to mention threatened her son . What part came out as PURE AND WHOLE !?!?!?

[@angiel.8720]

PERIODT

[@Carol-ec5he]

I agree with you, buuuut, he didn't set the Opera on fire, the mob searching for him did. The chandelier scene (that set the Opera on fire in the movie) is during Il Mutto, before "Why Have You Brought Me Here" and "All I Ask of You", and, aparently, no one died when the chandelier fell (at least no one mention anyone's death)

[@angiel.8720]

@@Carol-ec5he he still hung and tried to hang people lol

[@Carol-ec5he]

@@angiel.8720 As I said: I agree with you!

[@melanief4115]

yeah what happened to "its in your soul that the true distortion lies"

[@clown-cult96]

Alternative ending where Raoul and Meg realise they're way too good for their respective selfish, horrible love interests and get together, taking Gustav (who never deserved any of this) with them.

[@MusicalHell]

Or where Christine and the Girys tell the men off and take Gustave with them and become suffragettes in early 20th century America.

[@margisama]

Actually I think Meg going off with Raoul would've been great...they DID have that tiny moment before Devil Takes the Hindmost where they seemed to emotionally connect. But then again I'm sappy and would prefer everyone gets to be happy. I know in reality Phantom X Christine isn't a healthy relationship, but this is fantasy escapism, so I 'ship it. I think a big telling point to whether you like LND is whether you're a Raoul fangirl (or boy) or a Phantom fan...if like me you thought Raoul was boring and not that great even in the original play and thought Christine should've picked the Phantom (again...in reality, not a healthy relationship I would advocate for in real life...but this is a broadway musical, not reality), then your opinion of LND will be far more favorable. If you thought Raoul and Christine were 'troo wuv forever'...then yeah, you have good reason to hate it. But I liked the songs in LND...though Bathing Beauty IS....meh....and ironically the Titular song is my least favorite >_>; But in a way even us people who did like LND and were rooting for Erik X Christine still got slapped in the face too...given the ending. I guess he figured the only way to make everyone happy was to make sure neither of them got her? >___>; Also, either she and Madame Giry flee the country, or Meg goes to prison for murder.

[@juliadietrich3584]

Yes but gustave stays with christine phantom duo aka HIS REAL PARENTS

[@MidnightSonnet]

@@margisama Personally, I don't like LND, not because I'm a fan of Raoul or Phantom, but because it's a pointless cash cow that cancels out everything the characters built from the original musical. I mean, Raoul is suddenly a jerk with gambling problems, the Phantom is a successful business man, Christine screwed Erik at some point and had his damn kid, and she chooses the insane murderer over the guy who stood by her side and helped her in the original play. Honestly, other than the great performances by the actors, a few decent songs, and the stage set, I can't say bring myself to like it. Again, a giant cash grab by a franchise that ended on a perfect note with the original musical. There was nothing more that could have been said afterwards, unless they wanted a boring look into Christine and Raoul's relationship. I support the notion that this should have been a prequel to the play that focused on how the Phantom came to be. That would have been really interesting. As Diva stated, LND reads like a poorly written fanfic.

[@meganhash7840]

You I like you

[@TheMsiaddict]

Madame Giry : "Who was there when the mob surrounded him?" Was she insane? She showed Raoul the way to Phantom's hiding place. Erik was not helped by her. She was crazy.

[@Erosophany]

Where do you think Meg got it from? Lol

[@b.d6642]

I mean what did she think raul was going to do when he got his hands on the phantom? Give him a big ol' hug?!

[@annieandelsieofarendelle3294]

This is why I think this whole thing is just Phantom's dying dream.

[@VWYL900802]

Maybe it’s under the context that Madame Giry went with everyone down the lair secretly and saw the whole thing and changed her mind to help the Phantom escape. The first one didn’t show that.

[@annaolson4828]

Glenn Slater? Where do I know that name? *Googles* ...He wrote the lyrics to the songs in Tangled. Beneath a Moonless Sky guy also wrote the lyrics to Mother Knows Best and I See the Light. There's a career.

[@Dreigonix]

Holy crap. That is an _unbelievable_ turnaround.

[@colonyofrats4193]

So this bloke wrote two of my favourite songs of all time and also wrote a song that I wish I could erase from existence... ok

[@broadway331]

I think Glenn Slater works really well with Alan Menken and he and ALW don’t click.

[@oliverdelica2289]

WHAT???!!! DUUUUUN DUN DUN DUN DUN

[@kristenwalsh9456]

@@broadway331 He and ALW did school of rock on Broadway which had an awesome score

[@garthst.claire3459]

I mean the whole productions seems to be rather goofy, but the Phantom screaming "TEEEEEN YEEEAAAARRRRSS OOOOOLLLLDDD" has to be the most ridiculous, cringe-worthy thing I have ever seen in a musical.

[@Jackaxed]

Garth St.Claire Someone to Phantom: "What a cute kid, how old is he?" Phantom: "TEEEEEEN YEEEEAAAAARSSS OOOOOOOOLD~"

[@eadlynjune]

Oh thank you because I was laughing too! Maybe it was that he needed to loudly clarify to the audience that they indeed had sex ten years ago and the boy was, gasp, ten years old or something. Honestly, they need to show he’s discovered this but it’s writing 101 not to just loudly yell at the audience “hey, that’s almost definitely my son!”

[@kamilee4123]

Every time I hear that part I laugh.

[@maggyfoster8699]

Garth St.Claire You made me laugh

[@EllieC130]

Before I knew the context, I genuinely thought the line was "ten years on" not "ten years old" and honestly, I now feel like I can say I'm a better lyricist than Andrew Lloyd Webber for that reason alone.

[@LadyOfBroadway333]

Is it weird that I think the pornographic version that "Beneath a Moonless Sky" should be on iTunes?

[@MusicalHell]

+LadyOfBroadway333 LOL...I could never sneak that one past copyright, alas. If you want to see Raphael's lyrics for the whole song, however, click below! raphael2054.tumblr.com/post/67015088093/beneath-a-moonless-sky-new-improved-lyrics

[@LadyOfBroadway333]

+Musical Hell Raphael wins. My compliments to your... Whatever he is to you XD

[@MusicalHell]

+LadyOfBroadway333 A friend, fellow Phantom nut, and seriously awesome artist. My avatar is his work too.

[@LadyOfBroadway333]

+Musical Hell cool! 😎

[@xxkewldudexx]

+Musical Hell You have truly made my night...see what I did there? lmao

[@natalieely8555]

Gustav: "I need an adult?" Phantom: "I am an adult."

[@TheChaosDragoness]

Ah, unexpected DBZA

[@spookylad1367]

Lol

[@sesfilmsllc]

Actually it should be, “MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!”

[@javierrico1996]

Gustav: “No. No, you are not.”

[@melissasaint3283]

"So was Michael Jackson. I said I need a *safe* adult!"

[@lilliedoubleyou3865]

I will never forget a comment my theatre teacher said when told about the existence of *Love Never Dies*. She said it was like if it was revealed that Sweeney Todd hadn't really died, hadn't really been put in that incinerator, but had instead escaped to Hollywood and now works as a successful hair & makeup artists. I would rather pay money to see that than *Love Never Dies*, which is, apparently, still scheduled to transfer to Broadway.

[@MusicalHell]

+Amelia Doubleyou ALW keeps saying that, but honestly I'll believe it when I see it.

[@suitofspades8194]

I would totally watch that oh my god

[@TheaterRaven]

Sweeney Todd moving to Hollywood to become a hair and makeup artist. Someone start writing that RIGHT NOW. Oh, my God, that would be brilliant, especially if they did it as a satire of how darker stories tend to get sanitized nowadays thanks to overprotective parents. I would totally watch that.

[@MaluuniRosa]

I don't know if I would watch that, but the idea that he uses poisonous hairspray and/or makeup that melts off the victims face or disfigures it in some way does sound interesting....

[@TheRealPentigan]

And the biggest in-joke to go with the acid cosmetics: It's a production of Phantom (or for maximum joke, a movie adaption of Love Never Dies) so Sweeny's planning on disfiguring the star for reals.

[@actingislife100]

When I heard him say “We can’t all be like Christine” I nearly banged my head on the wall

[@juliamavroidi8601]

I've read fanfics (including ones that do ship Christine with Eric) that have a more plausible plot and more IC characters

[@HanaBakemono]

DragonRebelRose can... can we have a link for this? I haven’t read a Phantom fic since middle school, but this actually sounds good.

[@brynnmccullough9088]

DragonRebelRose I read this comment and I had to look up this fanfic myself. I may or may not have stayed up way too late to finish the entire story.

[@rosieanderton5867]

@@brynnmccullough9088 I just read this it was so good 😊

[@thinmints4life]

I know right?

[@bettyjojoeharperre-imagina7322]

I'm just going to put out there I really appreciate that you bothered to say "lower quality fan-fictions", which is really nice that you acknowledge some fan fiction is not utter garbage. I'm not here to defend fan fiction or anything but, it's nice that they all aren't grouped together. I used to write fanfiction which was honestly a great platform to help creativity. No one should knock it as a whole. You can laugh at the porn all you want, though. Who wants to see Harry and Voldemort bang, anyways?

[@MusicalHell]

I have read and enjoyed fanfiction in my time, I'm not ashamed to admit it. (I may have also written some. No, you cannot have the link.)

[@bettyjojoeharperre-imagina7322]

Musical Hell Don't worry, I won't ask. May I ask what it was for at least? I wrote tons about Harry Potter.

[@MusicalHell]

Sursum Ursa has started a series on the history of fanfiction that promises to be very good (she also discusses a lot of the historical precedence you cite here): kzbin.info/www/bejne/onLOp4SolNGJpqc

[@4Mr.Crowley2]

Dear Diva, thanks so much for your reply -- I have just started her series on Homer and Virgil, and I love the fact that she shows how old and how very respectable "fan fiction" is in the history of western literature (yay for the Arthurian stuff as well). Thanks again for bringing her channel to my attention!

[@grainneorgracequinn2888]

Liz Harper: Re- Imagination sweet I love learn history

[@janeyrevanescence12]

"This whole thing looks like a Tim Burton fever dream staged by Cirque de Soleil." I would much rather watch that than Love Never Dies...

[@KeybladeMasterAndy]

janeyrevanescence12 Same.

[@robertd.carver6240]

No kidding!

[@brianarodriguez2757]

Agreed.

[@lemonglitter1583]

Another beautiful story being destroyed by its sequel.

[@robertd.carver6240]

This musical is an insult to both Burton and Cirque! Sequels NEVER work in Musical Theatre. Just look at "Let 'Em Eat Cake," the follow up to "Of Thee I Sing."

[@ZoraTheberge]

I’ve thought a lot about how to fix Love Never Dies. And the answer is surprisingly simple. Just kill off Raoul before the happenings of this show and don’t reveal that Erik is behind everything until absolutely necessary. Then Christine’s motivation for coming to America because she needs money has merit. Gustave is now mourning his lost father and Christine her husband. They discover the Girys and Meg is a vaudeville star in her own right. They decide they must put on a show together. For old times sake. Meanwhile Christine has been receiving mysterious messages and financial contributions from anonymous donors. She tells Meg she is frightened but Mdme Giry tells her not to worry. Eventually ensemble members start going missing and then start dying in front of everyone in apparent accidents. Though the Girys are sad and all, it’s the olden days and they work in a rundown theater. They think Christine is mostly paranoid. In what she thinks is a dream, she reunites with the Phantom and we get our big sexy duet. She wakes up alone and terrified so she decides she needs to leave. But she discovers Gustave has gone missing. She thinks he might be on the pier. (An earlier scene with them happens here) and she goes and finds him with the Phantom. We learn that he’s been stalking her since sometime after the first show. He tells her to sing his aria at the show . (As all other composers are inferior and don’t understand her voice like he does)

[@peggyskyler3283]

Zach T I’m excepting that as what really happened

[@andrewgraham9071]

zach t started a graphic novel or novel based on your view ideas on this.

[@edslushie570]

Or, if you want to leave most of the story intact, just have the Phantom be the one to die at the end instead of Christine. Maybe he even jumps in front of the gun to save Christine.

[@cherrywoodstudios385]

I think the only issue is (unless there’s some fun retconning happening, which is fine, because you wrote a much better version) Old Raoul shows up in the beginning of Phantom.

[@ZoraTheberge]

@@cherrywoodstudios385 I mean, I think a phantom sequel just generally flies in the face of god, so who cares?

[@robertd.carver6240]

Successful pregnancies (those which come to full term and result in living, healthy children) even first pregnancies, typically require at least 7 months, if not the full 9. Even if the Phantom--or Raoul for that matter--accomplished the necessary procedure on the first try, TEN years previously, then Gustav would NOT be ten years old, but a maximum of NINE plus a few months, give or take. The creators of this sequel haven't done their math, or simply DON'T CARE!

[@robertd.carver6240]

Even in the fantasy world of Musical Theater, the physical and natural rules of the real world still apply.

[@pinkglitter93]

So, when someone asks your age you say "I am X years and y months old?"

[@SolarisMusic]

And what if Christine & gang came back 10 years & 10 months after that night? Gustave would be 10.

[@robertd.carver6240]

@@SolarisMusic The statement of the time lapse is very specific. DO THE MATH!

[@billuraral1870]

THANK YOU!!

[@RexBlazer1]

Glad to see someone spreading awareness of the "Ron the Death Eater" trope. Some would call it bashing, and as a friend of mine once pointed out, bashing is a waste of story. Too bad you didn't mention its sister trope, "Draco in Leather Pants," as this musical is pretty much built around trying to give the Phantom that treatment.

[@tatehildyard5332]

The sad part is that it can actually work if done properly. Look at Wicked.

[@RexBlazer1]

Tate Hildyard I haven't really seen that for myself, so I can't say for certain about it working or not. Also, the original Wizard of Oz film was closer to the book than Wicked was in terms of its portrayal of the witch. In both the film and the book, she was pretty damn wicked. In the book, she actually enslaved a whole race of people called the Winkies. However, she wasn't actually in the story enough to be considered the main villain, as she actually just spends most of the book minding her own business in her kingdom until Dorothy and the gang are sent to kill her. And after seeing them coming, she sends all kinds of monstrosities to stop them.

[@willlyon7129]

Well they did leave some stuff in the book

[@tatehildyard5332]

RexBlazer1 Oh. The musical revolves more around the events of the 1939 movie since that's the most publicly known interpretation of Oz. The musical does actually do this trope really really well and it never feels fan ficy or out of place. Would you mind spoilers?

[@KiwiNinjaBlast]

Tate Hildyard Adding onto that, there's not really any "vilifying of the hero" (unless you count Boq/the Tin Man) in terms of the main heroes, that would be limited to Dorothy, Glinda, and the Wizard. Glinda is portrayed as a good person, though admittedly misguided until it was too late. Dorothy is only in one scene, crying offstage, while Elphaba has an emotional breakdown over her dead sister's shoes. The only one shown in a negative light is the Wizard, who even in the original was basically a charlatan that was taking advantage of the people of Oz's misinterpretation of his fuck up crashing his hot air balloon. In all honesty, Wicked's interpretation is more of an expansion.

[@janeyrevanescence12]

Hold on, if they had their night of passion 10 years ago...wouldn't Gustav be nine?

[@karawild1433]

+janeyrevanescence12 Bad math is the least of this musical's concerns. ;)

[@janeyrevanescence12]

+Kara Wild I know that but it drives me nuts.

[@Vousie]

+janeyrevanescence12 Not necessarily. If Christine & co came after 10y and 9m, then Gustave would be 10y exactly, and they'd still call it '"10y ago" because people often just discard the months even though it may be closer to 11y. In any case, the fact that it was 10 the whole time was how the Phantom made the connection - wouldn't have worked if they'd gone "Gustave is 9 but she last saw him 10y ago".

[@tattie.b8594]

But writers presume the audience are dumb and just say 10 so that we think ohhhhh he his child as apparently we all forget about 9 month pregnancy

[@vectorequinox6202]

Your mistake was thinking the people who made this know how numbers work.

[@dave19cat]

I think I get the joke with “Bathing Beauty.” It’s that the Phantom wrote a song way below his skill level because he kind of had to. He didn’t really want to write a new song for Meg but knew she would throw a huge fit if she couldn’t open for Christine, so he just shit out whatever he could in 20 minutes at most to avoid any drama with her.

[@MovieFan1912]

If only the audience was told that.

[@mask938]

That actually makes sense. If only the audience had been made aware of that.

[@MovieFan1912]

@@mask938 That’s what I’m saying.

[@mask938]

@@MovieFan1912 I know.

[@nkbujvytcygvujno6006]

@@mask938 stop clogging up comments sections by repeating what people already said

[@bonniemclane7825]

If they really wanted the Phantom and Christine to end up together, they could have at least had Raoul die before the story or early on in it or something. Even though it's very clichéd and I despise the idea, at least that way Raoul's character wouldn't have fallen victim to the "Ron-as-Death-Eater" trope and the whole treating-Christine-as-something-to-be-fought-over-and-won thing (ugh) wouldn't have happened.

[@-chippedstars-2889]

Bonnie McLane Be he's at the end of phantom

[@Rik-B]

I agree that it would have been a better option from that perspective, but then again the beginning of the original Phantom shows Raoul as an aged man so it would have caused more discontinuities. (That said, only if you assume that the year numbers used in LND are messed up, which they definitely are.)

[@eamonndeane587]

@@Rik-B You could retcon that elderly gentleman to be Gustav instead.

[@pinkwings8036]

Heck, Christine moving to New York could pair nicely with Raoul dying for some reason or another. Accident? Murdered? Sudden illness? Who knows, who cares! It would make enough sense for Christine to move after losing her husband and to start her career up again, even more if he died of illness or potential foul play. Getting her child out of Paris after anything like that would work, and not have to throw Raoul under the bus. It could have more time dedicated to... father-son bonding? Rekindling the romance? Anything!

[@ArbiterofTruth]

Ron-as-death-eater? Is that another way of saying it does not work/cannot happen?

[@MilkToast06]

I like Beauty Underneath and Devil Take the Hindmost. But this musical makes no logical sense. Why is Meg in love with the Phantom?! Madame Giry and Erik in this version have great voices, it's disappointing they weren't included in a better production. I like to think of this whole show as a fanfic Erik wrote, but since he hates himself so much he can't give himself a happy ending.

[@ryebread375_6]

Awww poor Erik so true tho

[@tattie.b8594]

Shame isn’t it as good actors get these bad gigs.

[@randomgeek95]

Liz Mitan I totally agree with you. The story makes no sense and the characters are just drama idiots. However, I do like the music and songs. I prefer to listen to the album then the story since there's no plot to this musical, anyway.

[@heididodd3493]

@@tattie.b8594 Ben Lewis, the man who plays the phantom in this actually went on to play the Phantom on West End in like 2018 I think, so a step up if you ask me. I'm glad he got to because he was phenomenal at it. Anna O'Byrne, who plays Christine, also went on to play Christine in the original but I'm not sure which production.

[@theyoutubersfromdenmark8143]

Hadley Fraser (the guy who played Raoul in this) also did Raoul in the 25th anniversary production of Phantom in 2011 at the Royal Albert Hall. Most prob know this tho.

[@80swoodpanel]

Let's pretend that the Phantom and Christine together makes sense for a moment, he receives her sincere love, what he's always wanted and he LEAVES?

[@TheMsiaddict]

He thought that Raoul could give Christine a better life.

[@TheMsiaddict]

***** That's the London version.

[@annietrinity1833]

Charlie Day could make it work

[@MediaLover194]

I'm just going to assume that they were both drunk.

[@eadlynjune]

Annie Trinity Oddly enough they could have pulled a Charlie and it would have made sense. Obsession isn’t love. Latching onto someone because you’re a lonely person with issues doesn’t mean you want a life with them. The issue is that they make it apparent he loves her anyways so that wouldn’t work. Gosh they could have actually put it for a throw and made it so even if he still obsesses over her he has no actual romantic interest in her. This would have given us no plot though, so they did something stupid anyway.

[@kitteridgesimpson8144]

Meg was my favorite in the original. I never viewed her as someone who would shoot someone

[@anthonyrackauckas7788]

I don't want to sound rude but if you watch closely, her reaction shows you that she didn't mean to pull the trigger. She was trying to get the phantom's attention and during their tug-of-war she pressed it by accident.

[@Jackaxed]

And I never viewed her as someone who would fall in love with a selfish, violent asshole, but hey, Love Never Dies surprised us all.

[@faiaflrt]

Oh, I don't know about that. I saw a live production at the Fox a few years ago, and Meg was downright creepy in that, always playing with that evil monkey and grinning toothily at the audience from the corners of the stage. I know they say the actors can't see you, but I wasn't the only one who shivered when she stared into our section. My neighbor actually spilled her drink on me.

[@starbird3939]

My friend always thought Phantom was her father.

[@mirabirdy2711]

She didnt mean to shoot her it was an accident

[@janeyrevanescence12]

Actually, I think "Why Does She Love Me" can be a very good song of about someone who realizes that they made several mistakes in their relationships and really regrets what he's done but feels it's too late. The bad news is that it needs be in the right hands. Not many actors can pull this off. Also doesn't help that the rest of this musical isn't very good.

[@TBTabby]

Christine still showed better taste in guys than Bella. Imagine if the Phantom had won her over simply by staring at her.

[@MusicalHell]

+TB Tabby And if that isn't damning with faint praise, I don't know what is.

[@katytui3746]

In the original book there’s a part where the Phantom watches Raoul sleep, and I don’t like the places my brain went when it saw this comment and remembered that detail.

[@pookywooky42]

Lots of people defend Beauty Underneath by saying "it's not really creepy because of the context where the Phantom wants to sing to Gustav about the power of music and stuff". The way I see it: just because it's not meant to be creepy and technically is okay within context doesn't mean it still can't come off as creepy.

[@MusicalHell]

The fact that he used pretty much the exact same tactics on Christine with "Music of the Night" in the original just muddies the waters further.

[@maggyfoster8699]

And it just sounds wrong

[@nkbujvytcygvujno6006]

“When you stare behind the night, can you glimpse its primal might? Might you hunger to possess hunger that you can’t repress?” kiiiinda sounds like more than just music. Plus, the creepily sexy dancing in the foreground doesn’t help. Film is a visual medium for a reason, and the dancers and choreography and creepy low reddish lighting are a part of the cinematography. I really worry about Gustav’s life with that madman as his father...

[@alim.9801]

I love LND but it absolutely comes off as creepy. Without context though it's a banger of a song imo

[@AntiFaGoat]

I think I'm the only one who doesn't mind the idea of Erik making a dark circus full of freaks. It could have actually been a very touching story about him being there for people who were just like him once, finally finding their own place in society while embracing who they are. But sadly the contrived love story and character raping had to happen, which drags any hope of an interesting, decent plot down. The phantom is not meant for romantic love but he can find love through others and from within. Isn't that more interesting?

[@tattie.b8594]

Sinister Sweet like a better greatest showman

[@Erosophany]

It's official. I'm writing a fan fiction about Erik taking in a bunch of misfits and starting a circus in EUROPE. NOT FREAKIN' CONEY ISLAND. Lol

[@ChristineTheHippie]

Sinister Sweet that sound like a story with possibilities

[@PandaWithAJetpack]

Sinister Sweet a much better sounding version to me!

[@annieandelsieofarendelle3294]

Oh and I have better sequel idea, (if there even needs to be one). Hopefully this doesn't sound like a bad fanfiction, but whatever. It takes place a year after Phantom and has Christine pregnant with hers and RAOUL’s child. The main play has to do with Christine her PTSD over being captured by the Phantom, the events that took place in the Opera House, and what may happen if the Phantom changes his mind and takes her away (though he never does, she just hallucinates him for most of the play). Raoul still loves and cares for his wife in this (albeit in an overprotective way), is everything but abusive or a drunk, and he to worries about the Phantom and their child. No stupid and forced love story between Christine and the Phantom, (or impossible love-child), Raoul is like in the original although he suffers from his stress, and the Phantom only appears as a hallucination to the main characters.

[@annieandelsieofarendelle3294]

That's actually not too bad an idea. Definately better than Webber's sequel. It would add to Christine's paranoia about the Phantom since this was the place she lost her innocence in, and she doesn't know whether or not the Phantom still lurks within the forgotten chambers of the Opera House. What I hate most about this and bad Phantom fanfictions, is that they always forget that Christine as a characters. More than often they give her little to no character, but just they for the reader. And while yes, the original Christine didn't have a lot of character, you could do a lot with the trauma she could possibly after that experience.

[@annieandelsieofarendelle3294]

Oh and Diva, this is an alternate scene with Christine, Raoul, and the Phantom where Raoul ends up telling Christine about the waiver, and people actually have character in this. www.fanfiction.net/s/10970039/2/All-the-Rules-Rearranged

[@marnistone6153]

I'd watch that over *Love Never Dies* any day.

[@annieandelsieofarendelle3294]

Marni Stone I don’t know if I should take that as a compliment.

[@-chippedstars-2889]

Annie and Elsie of Arendelle YES 👏👏👏

[@AtlanticGiantPumpkin]

Wait, yeah, WHERE DID HIS SWOLLEN LIP GO?!

[@bettyjojoeharperre-imagina7322]

Amen

[@puncherofbread]

All right, if Andrew lloyd Webber can make a Broadway show with opera, Lin Manuel-Miranda a rap musical, I'm going to make a black metal musical and nobody's stopping me.

[@TylerAStinson]

Do it

[@alim.9801]

You better!!! Keep us posted 😌😏

[@AtlanticGiantPumpkin]

Revisiting this review after having the chance to see it live (after a few minor changes) and the actor who played Raoul did the role better than the Australian version. He didn't play him as abusive, he played him as a troubled man who had a true fall from grace with alcoholism and is trying to cope with how it's destroyed his family's life. Listening to him ask for more drinks during "Why Does She Love Me" was actually heartbreaking. You could tell he was desperate for some escape and his addiction was feeding that. He played a man that had changed from the charming viscount he once was to a rather accurate portrayal of what addiction can do to even the most wonderful of people.

[@katherinealvarez9216]

Hazel Grey huh, interesting

[@pinkwings8036]

God that sounds heartbreaking. That’s a good actor finding something amazing in an ok script.

[@PandaWithAJetpack]

I feel some more script rewrites and a more sympathetic portrayal of Raoul would do the musical so much better

[@LadyDragonbane]

Who was the actor?

[@mask938]

Can you give me a link to that version?

[@JoelandtheBots]

My sister was actually the leader of the "Love Should Die" group.

[@BillAngell]

Avethine Tell her to pray for forgiveness

[@howsentimental]

Tell her “thank you”. I was in the group back in the day. Fun times running this shitfest down. 😂

[@LaineMann]

Good for her

[@StrongRex]

I hate that Facebook took away the Discussion portion of Facebook groups. We had some great conversations among us, I want to revisit them!

[@princesspeasant4536]

Not all heroes wear capes.

[@cutsieproductions4805]

God I’m late to this video, but I feel like we need a sequel/book to this sequel just dealing with Gustav and what he has to go through. He’s traumatized by his mother’s death at the hands of her best friend, and people (especially Meg and Madam Giry) thinking it’s deserved. He lives with his insane father who’s only there for him because Gustav may as well be called “I fucked Christine and I have living proof”. He’s used for his musical talent in the Carnival, and probably doesn’t get much good pay. Especially with WWl right around the corner. In conclusion, Gustav didn’t deserve this musical or anything having to do with his parents and should take a time machine and a dimension hopper to Waitress, where he will be lovingly cared for by Dawn and Oogie.

[@Quackervoltz]

Omg Dawn and Ogie, the ultimate autistic4austic couple

[@sarahdykhuizen5501]

This is so sad. Raoul is actually my favorite character in Phantom, because he was the only one who was willing to take action in a positive way. Phantom and Christine are one of (if not the most) toxic couples that we support in pop culture.

[@Marukiswife]

I actually refuse to watch Love Never Dies because of what did with Raoul and Christine who I loved together so much also it seems rude to me that ALW would make "fanmade sequel" to Phantom

[@Vousie]

+Eponine Thenardier Enjolras Umm, Raoul & Christine were this very heavy "Cinderella & Prince Charming" fairytale idea, neither of them really thinking about whether they truly get along well, just riding on the "we're in love" thing. Kinda sounds like something that will, in real life, fail badly. Usually by becoming abusive, as Raoul nearly does in LND. So I can definitely see Raoul's path. Maybe I just love it because I live in Aus, and thus saw the Aus version of the show, never saw any of the others' promo materials before I saw the show. The staging is amazing, and they also cut out quite a few of the songs you guys are hating on. Watch the DVD - it has the Aus version - It's amazing. Just the staging & all of the performers' singing is so beautiful. I found a few scenes of the London version on YT - It IS pretty dodgy. Perhaps the reason why people hate this musical so much is simply because of that one's bad staging etc. ALW actually noted old saying in the DVD's Featurette that if a musical's stage doesn't *look* beautiful, then the audience can't really listen to the songs either.

[@marnistone6153]

I feel so sorry for Raoul. Mr. Lloyd-Webber, have you no shame, dammit?!

[@goawayleavemealone2880]

Especially when his jackassery could have been attributed to knowing he was in a loveless marriage and Gustav wasn't his son. If they had to turn him in to a raging asshole they could have at least given it some credence.

[@ebaugh7320]

The writers truly butchered her

[@eridanamporable]

Sin #9.5: VAUDEVILLIAN ACTS SHOULD NEVER, EVER HAVE STRIPPING! Vaudeville was all about family friendly entertainment, so having a strip tease would be a huge no-no-. Ugh you'd think a musical celebrity like Weber would know that.

[@Kahran042]

Except it's never actually referred to as vaudeville in the script.

[@PandaWithAJetpack]

Exactly! Everything lines up to scream vaudeville but it’s like Webber forgot about that history?

[@horse631]

In the original cast recording Madame Giry blatantly refers to Meg's numbers as "cheap vaudeville trash." I think Meg's characterization, though weak to begin with, suffered with all of the rewrites that happened before this filmed version of the show debuted. The stripping in bathing beauty played into how she unhappily slept around to help gain the permits Erik needed to establish his circus, and this perpetuation of Meg reliving her horrors with a smile in hopes of eventually being rewarded with his love was needed to establish her mental decline to the point of trying to kill Gustav. But so much of that was muted in the final production that her motivation was seemingly nonexistent.

[@janeyrevanescence12]

Honestly? Seeing as this is play is set in America and vaudeville was a staple of American culture at that time (most of the early actors/actresses in Hollywood's first days got their start in vaudeville), I believe this is Weber's jab at how Europeans think Americans lack culture.

[@oldvlognewtricks]

@@janeyrevanescence12 So was burlesque a staple of the time period - and specifically in Coney Island from what I can find - it’s clearly what they think is going on here. They just used the wrong word for some reason. Or it’s a 4D chess move and Giry doesn’t know the correct word? Not great, in any case.

[@tillyegoodwin]

I lost it at the beneath the moonless sky part 😂😂

[@WielkaAutorkaaD]

Can someone add the lyrics?

[@smilesthroughfandoms5595]

Their version is better than the actual one

[@Justice237]

Diva said in her commentary of this episode that she worked closely with the guy who has this Tumblr page to produce this episode, and I think he sang the Phantom's part of the pornographic BAMS. The full lyrics can be seen in the link. Trust me, it is glorious: raphael2054.tumblr.com/post/67015088093/beneath-a-moonless-sky-new-improved-lyrics

[@smilesthroughfandoms5595]

Justice237 You were. It is glorious!

[@alexandra040726]

Justice237 that's hilarius!!!

[@cynicbitch1013]

Love you video and I agree 100%. If you ask me...realistically if Christine did marry Erik (aka phantom)...it would have been an abusive relationship. He has got all the makings of a wife beater. He's insanely jealous, possessive, manipulative, has severe anger issues and (to put it mildly) a tendency for criminal behavior. ....how romantic (sarcasm).

[@annieandelsieofarendelle3294]

What he wanted was a doll. A puppet that would be his music box and show off his talent through a pretty face.

[@cynicbitch1013]

Pretty much yeah.

[@WobblesandBean]

That's what I find so creepy, Andrew Lloyd Webber clearly sees a lot of himself in the Phantom. He wrote Christine Daae's character explicitly for Sarah Brightman, and he himself stated that he loved her purely for her voice and her beauty, making her sing and dance for him constantly. Webber is also insanely jealous and possessive, he wanted Brightman to give up her career, stay home and raise his kids. He didn't like that she was a rising star and was arguably more successful than he was. Then he divorced her because of an alleged and unproven affair...even though he's notoriously unfaithful himself. He both cheated on his former wife with Sarah, then cheated on her with his current wife. My point is, I don't think it's a coincidence that LND is nothing but three hours of misery raining down upon Christine.

[@MissingSirius]

I will never understand people thinking that Christine should have ended up with the Phantom. Or -- barf -- that the Phantom "deserves" Christine.

[@melissasaint3283]

@@MissingSirius particularly the Weber Phantom, who gets significantly less background or character development than the Phantom does in the original novel. I dont think we even learn that his name is Eric! Its all sing-sing-skulk-sing-murder-sing-clutch your love interest by the throat- sing-murder-pyrotechniques. In the novel, you at least are given room to admire what a superlatively talented and accomplished person he is, and time to learn about his background and pity him a bit.

[@kimberlywitten285]

For the record, I don't think Meg was really in love w the phantom. If you listen to the lyrics in Madame Giry's songs, it reveals that they had to persuade people in order to get money for the park, and Meg did so by sexual favors. She just wants to be recognized for all her hard work and everything she has been put through for him. When it comes to the comparison between Christine and her, I feel like it's based off of her wanting to be a star and have quality content like the phantom did for christine.

[@User356-m8w]

Hmmm but she sings more than once that she doesn't care so much about the audience, that when she is on stage, she is performing solely for him. If she was only concerned about her art, she wouldn't be so tuned in pleasing him? I do buy her love for him. Also they say both her and Mme Giry advised him and idolised him. Why else would she sacrifice herself doing sexual favours in order for Erik to be successful and get ahead, if not for love?

[@KiwiEvilFruit]

It's ridiculous how badly they had to butcher Raoul in order to make any of this plausible. Raoul always gets crapped on even though he literally is just a dude trying to help the girl he loves leave a horrific and abusive situation. He's literally willing to die just so she gets freedom. Hell, he goes into the Phantom's lair knowing it might kill him. Also Christine in the source material and even in the musical very much wouldn't cheat on her husband. Especially THE NIGHT BEFORE THEIR WEDDING?! In order to make the Phantom get anything, they literally had to just destroy the characterization of two characters...The whole musical just isn't even plausible in fiction land. WRITING HAS TO MAKE SENSE DANGIT. Also why would Meg fall in love with the Phantom? It just doesn't make any sense.

[@shab_nak]

Three characters. They destroyed three characters. Erik and his bittersweet redemption of letting Christine go were utterly destroyed, and now he's just the same as earlier. In fact, even some E/C fanfiction is better than this.

[@pathetic7507]

@@shab_nak Send me the fanfics. I neeeeed the good fanfic to bleach the memory of watching this from my mind.

[@shab_nak]

@@pathetic7507 'Solo for a Living'. A great piece from 2005 up to 2021, 73 chapters, still unfinished, but i believe author will be continuing it. It's a post-canon, and believe it or not all characters are completely safe from OOC. Also, Raoul there is literally beautiful. And i like very much how author did their version of 1870s timeline with the war and everything. I never read something that big completely in english because it's difficult for not a native speaker, but oh my God isn't that so good i just couldn't stop reading.

[@jessicaable5095]

Oh yeah, this legitimately started as a fanfiction btw. It was a book first. And in the book she knows the paternity for certain because apparently Raoul got his balls shot off at some point. Yes, you read that correctly.

[@nicolebenson705]

Love Never Dies is a crappy non-canon fan fiction in my mind. Beneath a Moonless Sky literally made me want to throw up.

[@bettyjojoeharperre-imagina7322]

Nicole Benson Really? I thought the song was hilarious!

[@nicolebenson705]

Liz Harper Well, it makes me laugh too but it is still gross.

[@joyunicycle]

Going on a rant: When my friend told me that there was a sequel to Phantom of the Opera (another one of my favorite musicals) called Love Never Dies, I was thought, "Oh boy, why?" Just as I figured, the characters are out of character, especially Raul. I'm tempted to say it……….Oh who cares, I'll say it! I've read the original book that the original musical was supposedly based off of, and not only does this musical (Love Never Dies) contradict everything in the book and messes up the characters, but it sucks out all the torment Christine went through because of the Phantom, in both the book and musical. I don't believe for one minute that Christine and the Phantom ever had an affair, not just because of the story, but because of the mood set in motion onstage and in writing. They convinced the audience of Christine's torment when with the Phantom and relief when with Raul. If it was a story on it's own merits I wouldn't mind as much (at least the sets are stunning and songs not too bad), but as a sequel = No, just no.

[@TJMcDonough]

The original date now officially makes this a few months older but still 10 YEARS OLD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[@MortMe0430]

I know this has been up for years, but it has endless rewatch value. One thing that strikes me in the section talking about abusive men giving women jewelry: these examples are all close-fitting necklaces. Curiously reminiscent of collars... telling.

[@snarkbotanya6557]

That parody of "Beneath a Moonless Sky" is a thing of beauty... even though I'm pretty sure I can hear your duet partner trying not to laugh at a couple points. Ah, who am I kidding, that just makes it even better. This thing is seriously the fanficciest sequel I have ever heard of. Hell, it's fanficcier than that time the author of Twilight went and published her stupid Rule 63 version of her own book (which was intended to show how TOTALLY NOT SEXIST the first book was, but ended up being somehow EVEN MORE sexist). Everyone is OOC, the plot twists are somehow both completely out of left field and completely predictable at the same time, and the music is obviously an inferior retread of the first musical (I cannot be the only one who thinks that song Raoul gets about how he doesn't deserve Christine sounds eerily similar to the original's title song in rhythm). It would be bad on its own for several reasons you pointed out (e.g. the transformation of the female lead into a MacGuffin with vital signs), but as a sequel it is beyond awful.

[@robertlauncher]

On a more serious note, comparing it to the Star Wars prequels is a bit generous. This seems like a bad Disney Sequel. Like, Enchanted Christmas or Little Mermaid 2 bad. I mean, what even was going through Webber's head during that time? *X-ray machine showing a cuckoo clock going off.* Huh.

[@MusicalHell]

Gamer Rob The prequel comparison was inspired by, among other things, the sheer amount of fan rage generated (although you could certainly argue that for Disney sequels too). Also because both inspire a lot of comments along the lines of "Well, the characters and story suck, but at least the music is nice..."

[@robertlauncher]

Musical Hell True.

[@marnistone6153]

"Love Never Dies" is "Hunchback of Notre Dame 2" levels of bad.

[@lesot5907]

Robin Ashenor u talking shit about little mermaid 2?

[@ambabey0330]

I like some of the music for Love Never Dies (most of it is just BORING BORING BORING), my main problem is that the plot just... doesn't feel like Phantom of the Opera. It feels like a completely different show. It gives off a completely different vibe.

[@mareofmaers3590]

I think that also comes from how the Phantom is portrayed. I mean, in the original musical, he is… well, a Phantom. There are many spooky vibes he gives off - like the stage version of the Il Muto ballet where it's only his shadow displayed on the stage before the stageman is hanged. Love Never Dies has no darkness or spook factor to it, it's just about a bunch of awful people having awful things happen to them.

[@ingtapoot]

12:02 "May disappear on Coney Island" might be the funniest lyric and melody combination I've ever heard, and sung by The Phantom of the Opera is just chef's kiss

[@buringplumbranches]

I liked your version of Moonless Sky better

[@maggyfoster8699]

burningplumbranches Me to

[@treblebat]

The phantom tells her to leave and never tell anyone. Christine: okay *ROLL CREDITS*

[@Ayden_B]

Did you know? This is loosely based on the book “The Phantom of Manhattan”. Guess who’s review was prominently featured on the back? Andrew Lloyd Webber’s! And guess what? The book is worse than the original book(which was just ok to begin with) so who woulda thought this would be shit

[@HeyItsNovalee]

sounds like a bad chick flick featuring the phantom taking to new york to try and find himself lmaooo

[@avalasialove]

Even though I enjoyed this musical, there is one point that I agree with wholeheartedly! Now, I know that a lot of people don't like Raoul in this musical and neither do I. However, he does show regret for his cruelties and for that I can sympathize with him a little bit. I certainly can't say the same thing for Madame f***ing Giri! Now, she wasn't my favorite character in the original musical. I even found her a little off-putting at times. However, I could at least see what her character was trying to be (the strict mentor with a soft spot.) In this musical, I see her as nothing more than greedy, heartless, and just plain cruel! She especially bothered me in the beginning when she claimed that Christine only chose Raoul because of youth and beauty. No, she chose him because they were friends when they were children! I think you can figure out the rest.

[@milosmith5326]

Also, Madame Giry's bit in Devil Take The Hindmost (Quartet) - "Perhaps she won't go on/Perhaps she'll lose her nerve/Perhaps her voice won't serve/And she will fail him now/And then my child and I/Will get what we deserve". In Phantom of the Opera, it's implied (and made explicit in the movie with the line "I think of her as a daughter also") that Mme. Giry considers Christine a second child. She loves Christine and wants to see her succeed and encourages her to sing in Hannibal. It's totally out of character for her to decide now that she wants Christine to suddenly develop stage fright or her voice to give out so that Meg can succeed. Even if she wasn't so fond of Christine, Mme. Giry isn't the type of person to hope for another's failure so her kid can have the spotlight.

[@ChristineTheHippie]

I would add: Mme Giry was done with the Phantom after he murdered Piangi, so why would she still be helping him? And wouldn't she want to keep him far from Meg? "Your real father" you mean the man who got you pregnant and abandoned you? Is Fantine's ex-lover Cosette's real father, then?

[@morgangobin6550]

I could hardly get through this review, the story annoyed me so much. How Webber thought this would work in the context of one of the biggest and most beloved musicals of all time is anyone's guess! And unfortunately it will never go away because....well, "never dies" is in the title....

[@MsPeppers21]

I've been saying for years that Love Never Dies is the Phantom/Christine fanfiction that no one asked for. I'm so glad people agree with me.

[@PoliticalWunderkind]

What I love (hate) about this musical is that it seems to acknowledge at the end that Erik/Christine is fundamentally unworkable, but that it would be better for Christine to die than to potentially find happiness with a man who isn't Erik. Sleep with one eye open, Sarah.

[@Mattteus]

that musical porn bit was beautiful

[@TamLe-vb5ig]

Mattteus agree

[@appledin8031]

I know I might get a strange look about this but whenever I hear "The beauty underneath" I can't help but think of the movie Labyrinth, and see Jareth singing that song. I can actually see him singing it to Toby, trying to show the kid his world, but what Jareth's really doing is trying to get Sarah's attention and winning her over. However Sarah is not listening to Jareth, and is trying to save Toby from him.

[@maggyfoster8699]

I can see that

[@joey1723]

No strange look! That's an amazing comparison

[@angeliquehess9593]

I like that idea

[@User356-m8w]

YES!!!! Same here!! When he takes Gustav to the House of MIrrors, I was just waiting for him to break out into singing "Dance Magic Dance" 😂 Goblins and all! And at the end, when they go through the crowd, again through the funfair, also reminded me a lot of the Masquerade in "Labyrinth".

[@MrBlueSkyof1607]

Are we sure that wasn't an unused song from "Labyrinth" to begin with?

[@lauradietrich9424]

Raoul has to be the most thankless role in theatre (if not in fiction), not just because he's so unpopular, but because it's too easy to play him badly. It's as if "Love Never Dies" wants to rub this fact in EVERYONE'S faces. In your opinion, who do you think played Raoul best in the productions of "Phantom" you've seen? That is, an actor who plays Raoul as someone we can (and should) root for?

[@MusicalHell]

Gary Mauer, Andrew Ragone, and John Cudia are among my favorites--strong, sincere, absolutely in love with Christine and willing to fight anyone and anything for her.

[@lauradietrich9424]

Thanks. Funny how 2 out of 3 of the aforementioned Raouls have also played the Phantom! Now that's versatility!

[@rosebyanyname]

This may sound strange but the actress playing Christine looks too youthful to me. I can't believe that she's a mother because she doesn't look like she's aged...for the love of God, Lord Andy - it won't hurt you to write your characters older than 35!

[@pinkglitter93]

There are people who age extremely well. On first film she was supposed to be about 20. So in LND she is supposed to be 30. I know a woman who is 27, yet people think she is 19-20 when they see her. Maybe that's the case here...

[@unluckyone1655]

I mean Rossam who played Christine in the movie was 16 at the time, despite the fact that in the book, Christine is in her 20s

[@PolevayaMysh]

It wouldn't make sense for her to be older than 35. She was very young in the original. Definitely not older than 25.

[@Craze_1209]

that graphic parody of Beneath A Moonless Sky was pure beauty

[@lucyshearer7117]

A few months ago after almost 36 hours of traveling I got home and watched the LND stage movie because I hadn't seen it and was curious. Since I was very tired and was probably a little air sick I said to myself at the end "Meg should've just shot everybody then swam into the ocean of their blood" I then decided to write it down on my drafted english essay. Unaware of what had happened, I handed in my draft to my teacher and at lunch that same day I was called to the school's psychologist to talk about my 'feelings' XD

[@harrietamidala1691]

Lucy Shearer That just cracks me up. How did you clear it up? What grade are you in?

[@lucyshearer7117]

harrietamidala1691 I'm a junior but at the time this event occurred I was a sophomore taking honors English which made it worse XD

[@amyclarke41]

+Lucy Shearer poops but a great story ☺

[@somebody9]

LND, ruining another life everyday.

[@alexandra040726]

Lucy Shearer that should've been better xd

[@b.d6642]

Remember how brilliant point of no return was when it came to it's symbolism? How Andrew Lloyd Webber acknowledged the audience's intelligence? How it was probably the most sexual yet subtle song in the history of musicals even tho they barley touch each other? How the "point of no return" and the "fire" that filled them perfectly represented sex without even straight up saying they are sleeping together? And then there's beneath a moonless sky

[@cyanmanta]

“The worst musical I’ve ever seen. And I’ve seen Lestat: the Musical. Twice.” - Lindsay Ellis

[@jbvader721]

🎵Give me the gun Meg🎵

[@audreygraciam4032]

Even if they want to make Raoul a gambler as well as a drinker, they could've made a conflict between Christine wanted to sing since it was her memories with her dad. She's not afraid of singing alone and the Phantom anymore, but on the other hand, Raoul was too scared from The Phantom would take her away again. Make Christine a stronger character and realized things have changed with Raoul. He became obsessed with his future wife's "safety". So stressed out Raoul became like the original LND show. This all happened before the wedding night, where Christine was questioning her choice with Raoul. Christine and the Phantom still could perform "Beneath The Moonless Sky." Ashamed of the man he was (killer, stalker, manipulator), not because of his appearance, the Phantom left Christine. Boom. The back story can cut some carnival and Girrys' songs. Ten years later, hearing Raoul's bankruptcy, the Phantom was giving Christine a chance to perform once more in Conney Island, unlike Raoul. They could've written the Phantom has changed since Christine gave him a little compassion, and he reflected on what man he used to be. He was turning into a more gentle, father-like character to redeem himself. To win Christine. Raoul and the Phantom made a bet. But, in the end, Christine chose the Phantom instead. Meg Girry killing Christine is too random for the original plot. Madam Girry was the one who showed Raoul where the Phantom lives, but now she rescued him???? That bothers me a lot. Christine and Raoul became distant after the marriage and knowing Gustave was the Phantom's son, Raoul wanted to kill the Phantom but accidentally killed Christine. Double boom. You got an antagonist and a tragedy. Gustav will definitely chose the Phantom since his "dad" killed his mom. I'm stressing out over the missed opportunity here. I only change a few things from the original plot of Love Never Dies. Gosh. They should've dig their relationships and history more.

[@moonlightshadow6226]

I really wish this happened!!!

[@captaincrunch784]

...." the pounding of our loins!!!!!" I am DYING LAUGHING here. :::::wipes tears from eyes:::: When did these 2 have time to bang??? Did she have GPS on this dude AFTER he went nutso and tried to kill Raoul????

[@theoneandonlykronos8585]

5 years I've known this musical. Ever since it was announced... only NOW do I actually GET the pun behind Mister Y.... It was so simple! Why oh Y didn't I notice it...?!

[@lkblondie8061]

The One and Only Kronos i still dont get it i either forgot something or missed it

[@ultimatedarkrai255]

I think that we can at least give credit for not calling him mister e

[@metademetra]

This whole thing reminds me if the second Hunchback, in the sense that I think both writing teams totally missed the point of the originals. And it’s even the exact same point!

[@mellifluous5264]

Phantom: be like Christine Me: *facepalm*

[@margaretschafer8587]

I've never understood people who think that the Phantom is a better match for Christine than Raoul. Wildest thing is that I had a few friends in high school who thought it. Still totally baffles me. Like putting the fact that she kinda viewed the Phantom as a replacement for her father aside, the Phantom is a SERIAL KILLER. Like who in their right mind looks at that and is like ooh yeah I wanna hit that. Side note: one of my best friends has this whole idea of how Love Never Dies could have been okay if you'd like stripped away a lot of it and not taken everyone and made them out of character (ESPECIALLY Raoul). And it kinda works if I'm being totally honest. Like let me rework this for you ALW. It's an interesting concept, just a crock of garbage result.

[@user-qj9en1kp1m]

This musical should have a sequel: Raoul, Gustave and The Phantom as a patchwork family. "Sooo, there is a parent-teacher conference today, which one of us should attend, Erik?" "You go, Raoul, i am busy composing..." "That is your excuse for everything, Erik!" Really, though, this whole thing with Erik being the father and the proof is the fact that the boy is musically gifted is rather stupid. Christine is an opera singer, so what gives? Why does the Phantom take credit for everything? Also: why is Madame Giry suddenly evil? And why did Meg need to...well...sell herself for influence, so they can have the freak-show running? Is the Phantom successful or not? This musical is unable to follow even its own internal logic.

[@Quackervoltz]

So Falsettos if Trina died

[@starbird3939]

“Mister Y” I liked it better in Scooby Doo Incorporated when the guy called himself “Mister E” If you are going to do a punny name, go full on punny. Don’t half ass it

[@JessicasAnimalFriends]

For another comparison, love never dies is to the phantom of the opera as the cursed child is to Harry Potter 😂😂

[@RuffDuddie]

Yes the musical sucks, but no the score isnt shit. Its actually really beautiful. Atleast most parts of it.

[@helenakoerner98]

Glad you said most parts of it. Bathing Beauty is the only song i can think of that is bad instrumental wise. The others have just bad lyrics (Beneath a moonless sky in particular. Why? the imagry in the chorus is perfect on a leaked sex tape) but the tune on the rest of the songs (exluding bathing beauty) is either haunting, beautiful or both. But plot wise... lets just say its going to need some serious rewrites. Flanderized characters, doesn't use the source material, bland new characters etc.

[@RuffDuddie]

Helena Koerner I completely and utterly agree

[@MissCaraMint]

Helena Koerner Yeah Andrew Lloyd Webber is much weaker with lyrics.

[@mg3873]

I honestly agree with you but at the same time the first song, the beauty underneath and Devil Take the Hindmost--without knowing the context of said songs are great stand-alone songs that could work.

[@toniherman9342]

MissCaraMint :87h

[@MtnNerd]

The phantom, a character who is forever alone, just found out he has a son, and we get... a weirdly sexual rock anthem?

[@gageperuti5519]

This musical is absolutely horrible, but I kind of like "The Beauty Underneath". It's a very catchy number, the uncomfortable implications notwithstanding.

[@maggyfoster8699]

Me to

[@Hammerhead4]

It’s funny how much stupider this gets as I get older, great review by the way the parody of beneath a moonless sky had me in tears. One thing that also makes me laugh in that scene is that Guastave has just gone to bed (I know he’s revealed to have been asleep) but Christine just start singing this song about a night of passion with a stranger with her son in the next room, not knowing if he’s asleep. Like no wonder he had nightmares, great parenting ChristineXD Also beneath a moonless sky is so random, Christines yelling at him for tricking her and he’s just like “hey remember that time we banged” and she like “oh yeah”. I was just there like this is random.

[@starbird3939]

15:17 I love how the kid is looking at the phantom. Almost like, “Um wtf dude? Why are you singing about my age? ... What a weirdo.”

[@andysee6996]

I'm not sure how apt the comparison of Andrew Lloyd Webber to George Lucas was. When he made the Star Wars prequels, Lucas was genuinely trying to make great movies and all three of the prequels have some great moments. Webber on the other hand was clearly just exploiting the misaimed fandom of The Phantom of the Opera to pad his pocketbook when he made Love Never Dies. Also, you can see the tragic upbringing that could've made Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader a somewhat sympathetic villain. However, it's clear that Hayden Christiansen oversold his despair to the point in which he sounded like he was whining. I get the feeling that it's exactly the performance George Lucas wanted because Lucas was unaware of the whiny nature of that performance.

[@SuperWolsey]

Thank you

[@Mistardmuster]

I haven't even reached the end of this review yet, but I just finished the BAMS parody and there are tears in my eyes. I love it.

[@MusicalHell]

Thank you! That parody was a lot of fun to put together, due in no small part to the kind and very talented gentlemen who helped with it. I'm glad you enjoyed it!

[@janeyrevanescence12]

Musical Hell I have to know what his reaction was when you suggested doing this parody with him. Also, how many times did it take for you to get through that parody without laughing your head off?

[@MusicalHell]

janeyrevanescence12 Not too many, actually...one of the nice things about doing audio commentary is that I can cut bits together as I see fit.

[@maggyfoster8699]

Musical Hell You’re song made me laugh

[@jamesoniris2647]

I feel like i haven't seen enough people mention that Love never dies started being written right after the divorce of Lord Andy and Sarah. Im just saying... Might be more than a coincidence.

[@obiwankenobi9141]

Andrew Lloyd Webber during the phantom of the opera: Roses are red clouds are white, Sarah you are the love of my life! Andrew Lloyd Webber during Love never dies: Roses are red, violets are blue, Sarah why did you leave me, what did I do to you?!

[@JaesadaSrisuk]

Bravo. I just stumbled upon this video - the first video of yours that I've seen, and you have me in stitches. (I laughed so hard my colostomy bag flew out of my abdomen like a champagne cork.) Definitely subscribing.

[@QwertyGirl789]

I think that when the phantom says that 'we can't all be like Christine' he was saying that he does not possess Christine's ability to see where beauty lies, so he missed when beauty was living in someone else. still doesn't stop it from being a stupid thing to say however.

[@sophiemazal]

but you have to agree the actress who plays Christine has an INCREDIBLE voice.

[@cityman2312]

I'm glad I never saw this. The story sounds like cringey fanfic. No music could save it.

[@TheMsiaddict]

Cityman You can, there's a full show in KZbin.

[@helenakoerner5536]

TheMsiaddict no, just no. I saw love never dies online and I will agree with Diva on everything. It is literally so illogical, so inconsistent that it becomes forgettable in the worst possible way.

[@thomashall6733]

to me it was hilariously bad. if you're having a bad movie night with booze i would highly recommend it.

[@rileym7110]

Andrew Lloyd Webber: I’m gonna make a sequel where the characters who only one of them has feelings for the other in the original source hook up and it’s the whole source of the plot! JK Rowling: -takes notes-

[@MaryC861]

What you said about the phantom getting the best out of these horrorbull circumstances (that he caused); I was thinking that the stories ending would of been a lot more redeemable if it was the "Phantom" that got shot instead of Christine. Since him and Christine were not going to end up together anyway, and it would of been the ultimate karma for the Phantom.

[@MusicalHell]

The Phantom getting a huge telling off/come-to-Jesus from Christine (or Raoul, or honestly anybody in this musical), sacrificing himself to save Christine's life and encouraging Christine and Raoul to reconcile with his dying breath would have saved about 90% of what is wrong with this musical. It would have still been unnecessary (being mostly a rehash of the original) but it wouldn't have been so aggravatingly insulting.

[@MaryC861]

Do you mean the phantom dying would of been aggravatingly insulting? And yes I know there are many issues with the majority of the story. But I was manly just referring to how easily you could change the ending; that would at least fixed "some" of the issues.

[@MusicalHell]

I mean holding him accountable for his behavior and seeing some form of atonement for it would have made for a less insulting show.

[@MaryC861]

Oh I see. Your wording just confused me a bit. No offence.

[@mimsilvernote]

Mary-Christine Hennessy Yes, And it would of made more sense. I personally don’t mind the first act and half of the second act of LND, but the ending is completely unforgivable (that and Madame Giry’s portrayal)

[@NebLleb]

Why is Erik (The Phantom) still wearing his mask?! He was unmasked in "Phantom", so there is no excuse to have him wear it again! Maybe if they had him not wearing it in private and wearing it in public it would have been better, but still.

[@elsie8757]

Well I mean. He likely doesn't feel any better about his appearance...

[@NebLleb]

I Don't know what you mean. But my point still stands. My theory is that the people involved just got lazy one day and said 'screw it' and gave Erik his mask back.

[@elsie8757]

Ben Bell I mean sure the AUDIENCE knows what he looks like by now, but he's not wearing the mask to conceal his identity from _us,_ he's wearing it because it's kinda hard to get people to listen to you if they're busy being freaked out at half your face looking like it's been melted off. Y'know. Like how Gustov reacted when he took the mask off.

[@NebLleb]

Okay. This show still sucks, though.

[@elsie8757]

Ben Bell No one's arguing _that_ point, friendo :P

[@rine6740]

I think the only way to fix this is to give it the parody treatment and have the StarKids act it out in the most exaggerated way possible

[@Jay-qh6uv]

God none of this makes any god damn sense I mean wasn't a major point in the original that Erik can't get it up? That his disfigurement caused erectile dysfunction? That's why he didn't rape her when he took her down to his lair? I guess we're just disregarding that ok gj alw Also what time period is this supposed to take place in? I guess, when I really think about it, the original timeline didn't make a ton of sense (the costumes are indicative of the 1880s, but in the auction scene at the beginning where "new electric lights" are mentioned which would be around 1900, Raoul is old af, where he should be around 40-ish.). If Erik and Christine's son is 10, then this is supposed to be sometime in the 1890s, but there's early 1900s-1910s costumes? What the shit is going on with this time warp? There's just so much in this that makes zero stance from a continuity and story angle, but I think the worst offence is what they did to Erik as a character. Erik in the original was so interesting and mysterious. He was a shadowy figure, a puppet master that people only saw out of the corner of their eyes. Even the end (in some renditions), you're left with the question "is he even real? is this some kind of collective psychosis? is he a ghost?" when Meg goes down to his lair and finds him to have vanished. Erik can't really stand as an actual character, especially with all the tragedy and crippling (I refuse to believe someone as mentally fragile and disturbed as him could just pick up and have a very successful business in a different country, after living their entire life in underground isolation) mental illness. k sorry for the rant

[@mg3873]

Nobody has spoken of the Gaston Leroux book. Of the Susan Kay book or of PHANTOM IN MANHATTEN. These three books plus the original is so much more entertaining and a better version than this adaptation is. LND is once again like paint never drying.

[@linggao2602]

I mean it did say in the original musical that "this distortion of my face also robs me the joys of the flesh" or something along those lines.

[@linggao2602]

It's as bad as knowing Voldemort has a daughter by Belatrix Lestrange in Cursed Child.

[@SailorSabol]

Phillip P omg the musical NEVER mentioned erectile dis function!

[@SongbirdAlom]

I think “also denied me the joys of the flesh,” was less about erections and more that his face = a lack of social contact, and by proxy, romantic prospects. I think it was almost more of a self burn. “I’m not going to try anything with you. I wouldn’t even know what I’m doing,” sort of. Choreographer Gillian Lynne has stated that the scene in Music of the Night where he’s draped against the portcullis, Christine walks up to him and then scurries away, is meant to be her being intimidated by his erection 🤷🏻‍♀️

[@MichielBLKorte]

I feel like Lloyd Webber’s problem is that he is way too much team Phantom. You have to respect Christine’s decision, the material’s decision. Lloyd Webber’s OTP turns Phantom in hot stuff in his problematic movie, Raoul in a soulless goodie two shoes and it leads to the unlogical blashemy that is Love Never Dies. Phantom is NOT the one for Christine. They may have ended on good terms but he’s not a hero, he’s an anti-hero who murdered multiple people, kidnapped her on multiple occassions, convinced Christine he was her dead father’s ghost, almost forced her to marry him, almost killed Raoul. It’s called “Phantom of the Opera” because, argueably, he is the most interesting character, NOT because he is the protagonist.

[@spookystela4661]

I try to forget this musical exists when I listen to / watch Phantom. They did my boy Raoul dirty.

[@vadrelle3494]

My head-canon to the reveal of Gustave's "parentage" is that Cristine told Phantom he was the father just so he would stop threatening her kid. Whether kiddo is Phantom's or not, it does put a +20 buff to the kid's defense stats (against Phantom anyway).

[@owlgirl1998]

"Beauty Underneath" is my favorite honestly "is there music in your head, have you followed where it led, and been graced with a taste of the beauty underneath" lives in my head rent free