LOW BUCK CARB TEST-DO THEY WORK?

[@jimmy_olds]

I’d like to see an Edelbrock vs Holley vs Demon vs whatever else test on a 425 horsepower motor

[@cammullis1852]

Throw that damn edelbrock carb in the dumpster...

[@johncholmes643]

Quadrajet is 100 times better than an Edelcrock

[@alienfrmearth]

Demon is holley

[@alienfrmearth]

Edelbrock are great carbs if you tune them correctly

[@BBBILLY86]

@@johncholmes643 would like to see a Q Jet test. Often overlooked misunderstood carb.

[@StephenGiovi]

Richard: I'd like to see a test on water pumps...hence clockwise vs. reverse flow on a small block Chevy. That's because I bought from Amazon, and they sold me the V6/V8 long water pump. Oops! The overheating problem went away believe it or not.

[@johnparrish9215]

You guys should check out the Engine Masters episode where they were looking for the Best Cheap Carburetor. The used the Holley 750xp as the base line and tested the Street Demon, the Summit, and the Edelbrock. The Summit won (BTW its made by Holley) and tied the Holley XP in both HP and Torque. For only $380. It was also the cheapest carb.

[@stevenshepherd1905]

Proform and Quick Fuel are also Holley brand names.

[@johnparrish9215]

@Poor Touring Hot Wire Garage I don't know about maximum power but part throttle response is far better than the old one, it is a massive improvement.

[@larrybrown9279]

I got three of those Summit carbs they're cheap and they work great and they're easy to work on yes they quit making them in 1998 sowhat, Summit changed the name on top Whoopi

[@GR-RadioSouthCarolina]

@@larrybrown9279 I bought one of the summit carburetors 2yrs ago and it works well

[@robertcampbell1307]

Gotta watch that episode!

[@msms-rl6zf]

With so many people barely hanging on these days being able to squeeze a dollar and still get good performance just makes sense. Sure...low bucker at heart here love the junk yard jewels of the past and want to see it go forward. Thanks for your work.

[@GroovesAndLands]

NEED to find a way to do a fair comparison of Holley, Edelbrock and Qjet on a good running ~350-400 inch engine.

[@Zero-Fox-Garage]

I'm guessing the choke horn on the Brawler accounted for at least a couple of HP, and probably contributed to the slightly richer A/F you saw with it.

[@Parents_of_Twins]

Exactly what I was thinking

[@gregkeen4907]

Yup!

[@danielwilson6665]

Rene Jelles , that’s why the Holley Track Warrior carbs, in my opinion, are the best bang for the buck in a carb featuring so many of the essential performance modifications of the mega-buck Holleys but without a choke horn assembly to impede smooth air flow. The Track Warrior uses a main body from the Holley HP series for its choke less design and smooth contoured Venturi along with billet metering blocks and throttle plate. When on sale, the 750 CFM version of the Track Warrior can be purchased from the Holley website for around $500. A lot of great features for the money !

[@coldsmoker9387]

So I wasn't the only one who noticed,he should have used a brawler race carb

[@Brooks336]

@@coldsmoker9387 Right how can you compare the xp to a street brawler carb it should have been the xp Vs the race brawler ( i bet ) Holley stepped in and said NO because racers would stop paying 1000$ for a over priced xp if a race brawler out done it. I have the 950 race brawler and love it & my son had an 850 holley and got an 850 brawler it's night and day difference he said well worth the change.

[@Olandosland]

I love that you always give every item you test a fair test. You proved time and time again that low buck parts are just as good as high dollar parts.

[@dazaspc]

Great test, I believe it pretty easily demonstrates how restrictive the Choke Horn is. Way back in the day I used to make a few dollars pocket money machining the choke horns of Holley Carbs. I could get used Holley 500's {Truck Engine} cheaper than 350's and I would machine off the choke horns and jet and PV them for 6 cylinders. Made enough money to buy my first big tool cabinet back when they used to be stupid expensive in the 80's. Wasn't a bad lurk until a local speed shop realized how profitable it could be and started importing used carbs from the US.

[@merylpelosi8485]

I've built several street rod engines for guys on a budget. They freely cough up the dough on a good short block, then when it's time for heads they tighten up a little. By the time you get to a manifold and carb, they're already all-in. This Brawler carb looks great. Double pumper or vacuum secondaries, adjustable air bleeds, etc.

[@warrenstephens3705]

If you guys have the carbs I think we would all love to see a 6, 7, or 8 carb comparison along with what it took to make each carb work well. That would be VERY interesting to watch.

[@kevins5833]

I feel like the 7 HP difference was simply due to the choke horn and plate, mill that off with a clean radius and probably be close to the same

[@johnsheetz6639]

I think that's completely true and that's why I was a little richer the air horn restriction.

[@mikef-gi2dg]

I like the high buck vs low buck test. I am a low buck guy. My street cars are required to do lots of drive to the track, foot brake, and drive home duty, regardless of whats under the hood. The $$$ difference will allow for better exhaust, or ignition, or intake, or heads, converter ect. For 100% track car the ultra XP is the smart choice. I would like to see testing on the new Edelbrock carb too. You should refer the Brawler carb from here on as the ORANGE JUICE JONES CARB.

[@68mustangmustang77]

In the end it's how a carb drives. I've had several different carbs over the years and u can nearly tell straight away from how the engine starts that your onto something good and will only need small changes. Good throttle response good afr.

[@alanhardman2447]

EXCELLENT! These are the types of comparisons I like to see. I'd love to see how the Summit reincarnation of the Holley 4010/4011 carbs compares to the Brawler... Sadly, when Holley was producing them, they weren't very popular, but I've seen several 4010 750s that ate the 3310's lunch pretty handily.

[@robertwest3093]

I bought one of those Holley 4010 600 when they first came out. Those annular discharge boosters really are noticeably more responsive than the straight leg boosters.

[@robertblanch8738]

Great video. One thing not mentioned is that Brawler has ported vacuum for the distributor. This will improve gas mileage for the street. I use a 750 double pumper on my 383 small block and I get surprisingly good MPG using it.

[@123nova87]

I love my 850 brawler. The price on those ultra xp Holley now are like 1100 bucks. Insane !!

[@NightWrencher]

You didnt mention this, but you can also buy just the HP main bodies and install them in your double pumper for pretty much the same performance and the XP

[@jamest.5001]

I just used the good ole 750 double pumper on my stroker, then borrowed it for my 454,

[@Screamingz1]

As I’m sitting here getting caught up on all the sbc videos you drop this carb video. Perfect timing

[@hotrodswoodshed7405]

I had SBC roller cam 327. Brand new Holley HP 750 right out of the box absolutely did NOT run good on my 327. Excessively lean building 50 degrees temperature within 7 second run. Had to increase jet sizes buy a bout 10 numbers to get temperature under control and optimal Eighth Mile ET. I learned a hard lesson. Never expect carburetor to perform optimally right out of the box

[@dannytravis7118]

intended use really comes into play here. like you said the brawler is the better choice for a street thumper that's driven regular but for a dedicated race car the other one has some advantage. in a typical street car you really won't feel the 7 hp difference but on a track car even 1 hp could make a difference between a win and 2nd place

[@leewilkins8341]

Thanks Richard - I’m looking to replace the carb on my 69 Z - answered a lot of questions I had!

[@Mechcanic]

Hey Richard, I would love to see a video on tuning a Holley HP Or terminator EFI system. I know it might be tedious but a few part series on getting it to work would be fantastic. I plan on using the terminator x plus on my BBC L21 gen vi 496 with 4L80E. Thanks for the consideration Sir, enjoy your stuff. Been reading your work for sometime, thanks!

[@AaronCoyRacing]

Making a bunch of sense!! Have you ever tested a predator carb ? I'll send you one to try out.

[@johncholmes643]

Predator's were pretty decent carbs.

[@spambeanie2]

They are great with an idle circuit

[@atlfan6565]

Testing cheap vs expensive carburetors, I'd much rather have seen a cheaper carb than the Brawler. Summit, QuickFuel, Edelbrock, Jet, and FST all have carbs from $300-$350 that most people concerned with budget would look at first before dropping the extra $100-$150 for the Holley XP. Just got a QuickFuel Slayer and converted it over to a metering block on the secondaries

[@pjmccoy4216]

WesTech has to give great numbers for the amount of money someone pays for dyno use. I am sure their carb cabinet is not loaded up with the cheaply made carbs. I've got a milk create of used Holly carbs. Looks like a Holly grave yard or odtopsy jubk box. Lol. That's cheap.

[@bcbloc02]

I suspect some of that power difference is just from the airflow disturbance the choke butterfly causes. If you lived in a cold climate likely that would be a must have for any wintertime use.

[@nordiccowboy3430]

I bought a brawler for my 94 Chevy K1500 and it’s been a nightmare from day one. I’m switching to Fi-Tech for drivability and because it’s a 4X4. I will however be putting a carburetor on my 468 CI big block Chevy.

[@gregblack4581]

I had a buddy with a 66 gto with 3-2 barrel s . When he switched out to a single 750 Holley the car went 4/10 faster in the quarter. Had a Taller alum intake of some type which Maybe made the big dif . I remember him having trouble finding a air cleaner to fit under the hood .

[@markmccarty9793]

Love the low buck comparisons! 10hp is only 1/10 second!! I'm a bang for the buck guy! What happened to the day when days when you looked at the time slip to see if what you did made a tenth of a second difference!!

[@Nowayjose-z2r]

I know this is two years old and as such things have advanced a bit. For round numbers, the XP is $1k and brawler is $600 (think after tax, lol) and in the sniper is $1600 for the master kit. For those who might argue a bit, the carbs don't include fuel pump, lines, filters, etc. so the basic kit with out the install lines and pump is $1200. For a higher out put SBC fuel pump you looking at a couple hundred for a good one either electric or manual. I would like to see the comparison in power. The hard part IMO would be the Sniper needing to "learn" for a bit for the test to be more valid rather then out of the box.

[@hom240]

When running a street car with a bit more cam it's nice to have a choke. You see it all the time on youtube hipo motor cars cold start without chokes sitting there surging at idle. What is causing that is the carb is not rich enough for a cold motor so as the idle drops down the power valve opens up and saves the motor from dying. Of course once the engine is warm enough the surging quits. A good choke setting solves that problem. A tip for really hot cammed motors, a dash pod. A dash pod will prevent the throttle from slamming shut creating a momentary over enrichment that'll stall the engine. Dash pod saves fuel. Remember back when carbs ruled? You could count the shifts by the puffs of black smoke. Dash pods prevent that.

[@marc6205]

Hey Richard. I'd love you to compare this combo with a 1" open spacer & a 650 Holley Double Pumper. As you know with an open spacer, each cylinder can breathe air from all 4 venturi's at wot, so the results would be interesting? In addition, I do like the Edelbrock Carbs after using the old Carter AFB's & AVS's, so a comparo against the Holley's would be very interesting. Keep up the great work. Cheers Marky from Australia 👍

[@frankieford7668]

Love the test Richard.. I just ran the ultra Xp 950 on a 700hp 496 BBC...the Fuel curve and brake specifics were perfect...right out of the box...I was supprised because the ultra XP has a power valve on the secondary side as well as the primary....but it works really well..

[@mgbchuck6527]

another great test, thanks. I've put an out of the box 750 Holley hp dp ($700)on my race style sbc (.600" lift roller, 12+to 1 comp., ported heads), set the idle, been runnin' it on the street for 3 years a happy camper ( engine came with a 850 dp that was set-up for WOT, wasn't very responsive under 6000rpms). Love my Holley 750

[@pjmccoy4216]

@RichardHoldener Could do a video of a swap meet Holly carb buy and build on the cheap. Go to garage sales swap meets etc but 2 or 3 junky carbs and build a decent one. That would be cool for us very low budget guys.thanks.

[@chriskane993]

That's really interesting I would love to see the differences between more carbs like an Edelbrock a Q jet maybe a thermo quad dominator or a summit carb on the same motor.

[@jumpsuite]

the brauler is the best bang for the buck it has so much to offer removeble air bleeds jets and still streetable a good carb to start with

[@duanedahljr1669]

Yup, ive had a Holley 850 HP sitting on my bench for almost 6 yrs...they were only 760$ back then.. 950 now...dayyaamm When i lived in Utah...3600 feet above sea level, we always cracked the new carbs open and dropped 2 jet sizes, if not, most always too fat

[@billythebake]

Curious about the difference between the holley type carb and the carter I've always heard the holley makes more power (but at a cost in fuel consumption); be curious to see if a) that's true, b) if it is the transient change to full-throttle or if it show up under steady-state use like the dyno, and c) if there's a difference in the fuel droplet size between the two types.

[@pepfarmguy]

I just replaced my 3310 with a Brawler. I have owned three different 3310. The Brawler starts better. It has better throttle response. Slightly better performance out of the box. Bought a remanufactured and saved $100. So far great carburetor.

[@theoldmanofthenorth]

I'd love to see an intake shoot out for the 351w EFI. Edelbrock truck manifold's vs. trickflow vs. stock :)

[@johnelliott7375]

I would too, but not a choice for me. Not cheapo but can't afford a 11-1500 dollar carb. Thank you for this video.

[@Nowayjose-z2r]

I like how things have advanced far enough the 400hp is a "mild" build now days. Just 20 years ago a 400HP motor was NOT mild and many would say that was a built motor. Granted heads and valve train was limited money wise and aluminum heads where just starting to come out but had huge issues with head gaskets till they got the alloy combination right. Now 350-400 horse is factory..lol

[@bentboybbz]

Like the other commenters im curious about the summit racing carbs. Ive seen them on more budget builds than i can count on both hands and really want to know how they compare to the ultra xp and the brawler. Both out of the box and after steve brule(not sure how his name is spelled) does his magic. I also wonder how the chaeper* carbs handle low vac situations. Would be a great video. Cheaper*

[@mothridith9760]

Ive ran the summit carb on a 350 chevy i had it worked ok but i had to run a .5 inch spacer so it would fit the intake manifold

[@4739-g9c]

Yes I wanna see a complete low budget 454 build vs a high budget vs junkyard. And crunch the hp to cost values.

[@johnsnow1355]

I just bought a brawler and one flaw with the electric choke is it dose not ground where the stock location is on the side of the carb. When I looked under the hood in the dark it was a lightning show on the throttle linkage side of the carb. It was trying to ground through the throttle shaft and linkage not good. I moved the black wire down to the manifold stud and no more sparks and grounding through the throttle linkage.

[@mountainofeverest3861]

No Predator? Or Ron's Flushing Toilet? I need something to go with my Rhoads lifters after I get buff from my Charles Atlas workout. Lol.

[@mountainofeverest3861]

@Jeff Kopis Poor Predator.. a melted snowball.

[@r.h.5052]

Charles Atlas? I'm not the only old buzzard here.

[@hookmaster1109]

Hows your George Foreman grill?

[@johnsheetz6639]

@Jackson P. Storm yeah he fed everyone in their first apt.

[@teamvoxracing2192]

Got a 650 brawler on my nitrous fed 4.3 V6! Love the look, the price, and it works perfect 👌

[@ImpalaSSRulz21]

I never liked the shiny coated holleys, I've seen it peel off inside the floatbowls... but that ultra xp is badass.

[@Wrenchen-with-Darren]

Great test. Appreciate it we're always trying to save a dime.

[@bigkellyg5947]

That was a cool comparison test. With surprise results. Awesome.

[@custom-ok8pd]

Id like to see a double pumper against the vacuum secondary street avenger of the same size.

[@arodderz]

Yes, same here....is it worth some HP or not!

[@Scootermagoo]

The only real difference is the second squirter in the air path on the secondaries, as long as the jetting and stuff are correct there wont be a lot of, if any difference and the driveability and fuel mileage on the vacuum secondary would be better.

[@arodderz]

@@Scootermagoo I do like the throttle response and drivability of my VS Holley. Looks like I won't be switching to DP. Thanks for info.

[@Scootermagoo]

@@arodderz The thing is you can have that same response on a vacuum carb also, you get the holly top with the removable spring and spring kit and tune the the response. The only thing a vacuum secondary might lose in, is a outright hp war because of the amount of throttle opening versus the actual airflow. The vacuum carb might not open the secondary as far as the dp carb. Which is based upon airflow needs and a vacuum signal.

[@arodderz]

@@Scootermagoo very thorough info. I appreciate it.

[@southernmudder2]

Do a cheap carb shoot out, include the summit carbs

[@divadyrdnal]

I wonder if an air filter base would help equalize the difference, short of milling the choke off?

[@Shane-Singleton]

This is my favorite type of test. Budget vs big bucks.

[@jedwards100able]

Richard if you can get your hands on one of Edelbrocks new race 4150 style carb it be nice to see what there capable of. The way Edelbrock designed it looks to be designed to complete with Holley's Race Demon. I'm starting to see engine builders put them on there big CI nitrous engines designed mostly for these racers that race in street class that has to do cruise.

[@justinchristiano8007]

I ordered a pro systems carb. I live in Florida and they put a coating on the float bowls to keep the fuel cooler. Seems to work. Otherwise get the less costly one. 421 small block.

[@Torquemonster440]

Richard. Can we see an annular vs downleg vs straight leg booster shootout ? Maybe on a few different types of builds, stock vs warm vs race ? That would be EPIC !! Thanks for your efforts bro, I always learn something from your videos.

[@johnelliott7375]

If you didn't say so I wouldn't believe it. But your test will prove it for me.

[@jamestorrens645]

I love the Brawler carburetors. You can get them in some cool colours.

[@brettanderson6743]

I wonder if the choke assembly would be responsible for the power difference? It does impede airflow after all.

[@richardholdener1727]

we have to do this again?

[@brettanderson6743]

@Jeff Kopis neither was the other carb.

[@brettanderson6743]

@Jeff Kopis sorry for working so much and not having much spare time.

[@timleonard86]

Yes would love to see ultra xp 4150 vs edelbrock avs2 of same cfm see which wins

[@johnelliott7375]

Wouldn't say low buck, but for today I guess. I still got my 750DP Holley I paid 400 bucks for years ago. Good Sunday to ya.

[@interceptor0166]

Put 2 brawlers on. For that price. Great information.

[@marlobreding7402]

When I was hot rodding back in the late 60s gasoline was about $0.26 a gallon for a Chevron Custom Supreme 105 Octane and a Holley Dual Pumper 650 carburetor was like $37 and taxes.

[@miken.4693]

And you guys made $0.50 an hour!

[@stephenkeebler732]

In '69, I was sweeping sidewalks and driveways for a dollar an hour...

[@jhoncho4x4]

Air cleaner added for the street, probably end up even. Agree with others about choke horn.

[@Scootermagoo]

I wasn't expecting more then 10-15hp and most of that loss was probably from the choke plate. but a little touch on the jetting and bleeds would have solved that. I bought a hp 650 one of the originals for my maverick more years ago then i want to remember and playing with jetting and bleeds was nice.

[@robertwest3093]

Infinite thumbs up for the Maverick!!

[@Scootermagoo]

@@robertwest3093 Orange & White 1973 Grabber with a 302 and a c4 and manual drum brakes. It was a high 11-110mph car. I miss that car.

[@Shane-Singleton]

How about a "factory OEM carb vs aftermarket carb" shootout. Break out your Quadrajets, Thermoquads, Carters, Motorcrafts, etc. and see if they can be made to run as good as the aftermarket stuff.

[@sirjhonson8218]

I would like to see you try a TEMU 4-barrel carburetor. I have seen some guys get a good carb for cheap.

[@mustangmadness4143]

Cut the choke horn off of the Brawler carb and I bet the numbers would be almost if not identical.

[@spambeanie2]

Engines not big enough for that to make a difference

[@reevinriggin3570]

love the low buck vs. high buck stuff. keep it comin

[@lte008]

For the price of a Brawler with a choke horn, you can get an FST with no choke. 750cfm $458.00. They are going to take a big chunk of carb sales if they can get through their growing pains.

[@basketballcory2]

Hey Richard, can you do a comparison of using a pcv evac system with headers vs a vacuume pump, vs nothing?

[@danielwilson6665]

HammerTime racing , an in depth crankcase ventilation system test would be something that virtually everyone could benefit from and with the thorough testing methods that Richard uses, the results would be conclusive enough to show the many positive effects that having a constant crankcase vacuum can provide. PCV components got a bad reputation early on as part of the evil power robbing emission control system. But advancements in technology have even included a billet PCV valve from M.E. Wagner that’s adjustable with dual flow capabilities for the vacuum differentials between idle and part throttle cruising. Getting blow-by vapors and unburned hydrocarbons out of the crankcase before they can contaminate the oil or escape into the atmosphere that we have to breathe is one of the original design features. But an engineering degree isn’t required to understand why excessive internal crankcase pressure can cause many problems like the dreaded oil leak from the rear main seal. Or how a controlled negative pressure (vacuum) inside the crankcase promotes better ring sealing. Maybe that’s why a serious drag engine builder will spend an extra $1000 or more for an elaborate belt driven vacuum pump system to draw down a serious internal vacuum for a few more horsepower. Big wins can get expensive. That’s why a serious question like WHY needs a serious answer from a real world, hands on kinda guy like Richard Holdener. Ain’t nothing to it except to do it...please ? 😉

[@basketballcory2]

@@danielwilson6665 well said.

[@danielwilson6665]

HammerTime racing , thanks for bringing it up because it’s a good topic that doesn’t get much coverage. It might seem insignificant to some but the guys that sweat the small details are the ones that get those great photo opportunities on Sunday afternoon in the winners circle quite often 🏁🏆. HammerTime....great handle 👍

[@jeffschwartz5199]

Good comparison ! Who says we can't go fast , for not much money 💸

[@cj71johnson6]

I’d like to see you test AFR 185cc Enforcer as cast vs. AFR 185cc Renegade CNC’d cylinder heads on a SBF for low buck vs. high buck testing.

[@terrysibley9636]

Richard, did you just quote Orin Juice Jones. Very cool

[@richardholdener1727]

THAT'S HP WE DO IT

[@terrysibley9636]

@@richardholdener1727 question, warmed over 358 ,sbc. Dual plane, holley 750cfm vac. Secondaries. Elevation 5,700 ft. That's where it will live. 85 percent of the time. Factory jetting in the primaries, .072. Any suggestions for down jetting before installation. Any input is helpful. Thanks enjoy the video. Take care

[@stevenbongiorno9277]

I definitely appreciate the low buck help. I modified Holley carbs for years, and finally got a Brawler. I’m very impressed with it, and I know it has a lot of potential. Do you think you could do something with modifications to either Holleys or Brawlers? Like millling and radiusing the inlet. Thinning throttle shafts , then tuning for them?

[@davidreed6070]

A test on a big cammed motor, testing boosters, strait leg, down leg, and annular discharge. Low end when the motor is still on the cam, people would reconsider carbs and converters. What do you think.

[@MegaScott]

Nice ad for Denso and Champion plugs there Richard...

[@richardholdener1727]

I like the blue counter

[@TPVPRO]

Annular vs down leg boosters cylinder to cylinder distribution.

[@racerd9669]

The Holley flows more air than the Brawler with the choke horn, why did you not use the Brawler W/O the chock horn?

[@JimBronson]

or take a Dremel to the choke horn, that's the low buck solution ;)

[@lenpolidori3568]

My Brawler doesn't have a choke horn.

[@allenlane5018]

I would love to see the brawler with no choke I think it would have been the exact same hp.

[@danielbeiersr3642]

How bout a comparison test between the old school Holley 750 dual feed double pumper and the new Brawler 750 Holley

[@rono3045]

Jetting.. what about changing the jets

[@bdugle1]

Full throttle, max power is one thing. How does it drive (street use) and can you tune it for mileage while retaining max power? The dyno is probably not the place to answer those questions, though.

[@squarepegroundhole132]

I have no idea how you don't have more followers than you do. Love your videos. I'm on your side with the music👍. Just watched a 6 month old comp cams video where you were wearing that shirt.

[@wymansst]

Ben Bergh most folks can’t really comprehend this stuff. That’s why guys like Richard don’t have large followings. My take at least..

[@squarepegroundhole132]

@@wymansst Fair point. I just like there's no bias. That and he seems like a guy pretty hard not to like.

[@wymansst]

Ben Bergh the non biased facts are what makes this channel so great and I completely agree Richard is hard not to like. Some folks just can’t accept simple facts though. Maybe it’s brand loyalty and brain washing and all that bs. We are the lucky ones who get to relish in this awesomeness.

[@richardholdener1727]

thnx

[@ddcraun]

I'd love to see the SBF shoot out the GT40, Holley, and box plenum intake in a FI set up

[@re-speed8667]

I don't personally think that the main difference on an application such as this is between which one makes more power, I think they both will get the exact the once AFR are set to be the same. I think the one thing that wasn't touched on, is the fact that the XP can be had in an E85 rated materials that won't be destroyed by that fuel.

[@richardholdener1727]

I mentioned they had them avail for E85 and Meth

[@Nanaki1422]

I'm surprised there was even that much change on the engine dyno. I would like to see these carbs tested on a chassis dyno, where carb tuning features and proper jetting and air bleed sizing will make a difference.

[@richardholdener1727]

I'm not sure how all that comes into play at WOT on one dyno and not the other

[@Nanaki1422]

@@richardholdener1727 on an engine dyno you have the controlled RPM gain compared to a inertia chassis dyno where the load is more fixed so the limiting factor of the dyno run is the engines output. In my mind I also see running the test with vacuum secondaries and comparing time to of the run so you can observe time the vacuum secondaries take to open. And you could also do a cam swap to show how that takes different amounts of time with different manifold vacuum levels.

[@No1414body]

I wonder if there would be a difference if you pulled the choke blade out of the brawler

[@danielwilson6665]

Richard, you have a unique way of cutting through the endless stream of automotive embellishments and total bovine excrement so typical throughout the cyberspace universe. This comparison NEEDED to be done with a man of your credentials behind the wheel. My interest centers around the recent purchase of a Holley Track Warrior in the 850 cfm version with mechanical secondaries. Since my cabinet isn’t full of exotic induction components just waiting to enhance my performance quest, I had to select a carburetor based on its features and compatibility with my engine combination. Naturally price matters and buying direct from Holley back during their Christmas sale made it affordable at just over $500. It shares many of the features that the XP has including a nicely contoured air horn minus the choke tower, billet metering blocks and throttle plate, jet extensions, four corner idle adjustments, clear sight plugs, dual fuel inlets and the usual bells and whistles. Another attractive feature is how the out of the box calibration is right in line with the needs of my 351 Cleveland. It has old school Pro Stock high port iron heads superbly prepared by Endyn, Inc. A new old stock Reed solid roller cam and valve train. Manley forged dome pistons and an internally balanced rotating assembly all housed inside a 0.020” over, production four bolt main block. Would I like to have that sweet $1000 XP featured in your test ? Why hell yes, of course. But thanks to you and the real world dyno results, I no longer suffer from anxiety brought on by carb envy. Thank you sir, and keep on keeping it real !

[@richardholdener1727]

happy to help

[@danielwilson6665]

Richard Holdener , it’s quite apparent that you get an over abundance of replies to the results of your real world research and comprehensive testing procedures. The questions and rebuttals run from bonafide to bullshirt and all points in between. Just know that when you do leave a reply, no matter how long or short, it’s greatly appreciated because if you tried to please all the people ALL OF THE TIME, then very little time would be left for you to do what you do exceptionally well ! Thank you sir, may I have another ?

[@manitoublack]

Would love to see how these compare to a set of IDI / IDF or DCOE 48 webers ;)

[@ldnwholesale8552]

Downdraft Webers are road race only. Bloody awfull at low rpm. But work great from over about 3500. BUT in reality a single Holley works as well. And a damn site simpler. Though having run sidedraft 45s on Holden 6s they are the best, again for road racing. SUs are better for street use.

[@danielhillwick8430]

LDL wholesale is right saying webber IDA or DCOE carbs are best for road racing. Although, nothing looks better sitting atop a V8 a set of IDA's or a wicked set of DCOE's! Even on a IL6 or IL4 the look and performance of a set of DCOE,s is unmatched other than aftermarket fuel injection setups.

[@amraceway]

@@ldnwholesale8552 I have 3 45 DCOEs side draughts on a racecar and it drives fine in traffic.

[@kd6tas]

Take this a step further. Build and test old carbs like the Thermoquad, the Quadrajet, the AFB, the AVS, the WCFB, the 4GC, etc. compared to their contemporary counterparts. A lot of us still have and run old OEM carburetors because we have them and they are much cheaper than what you call "low buck" here. For example, my daily driver is a '68 C10 with a smog era (dished pistons, 76cc heads, 3896929 cam) 350. It has the typical low buck bolt-ons: long tube 5/8" headers, an old Edelbrock Performer dual-plane intake, an HEI distributor and a Thermoquad. The Thermoquad is an unusual but reliable choice when employed by someone who understands old OEM carburetors. For all of your dyno experience, it seems like you don't know as much as you'd like us to think about carburetors. My opinion stems from the fact that you made no effort to rebuild the Quadrajet for the 455. Further, you made no effort to obtain one from someone who is familiar with them. It makes sense that you're a Holley guy as Holley is the popular choice for dyno rooms and drag strips. It seems like with you it's about pumping out the videos as fast as possible. You call something low buck but have Westech resources at your fingertips. The things you test always seem to escalate into things truly low-buck people can't afford. I guess that's how it goes making a living off of KZbin. It's a balancing act between pleasing guys who want to see the biggest numbers at all costs versus the guys who want to see what their real world low-buck junk builds really do on a dyno. See my comment on your last Buick 455 video. I'm the guy who put the '70 10:1 high mileage 455 in the '74 Buick Apollo. That engine got a new timing set and freeze plugs--that's it. That comment shows what "low-buck" is/was in the real world (I built that 32 years ago). Build and test your 455 that way and then proceed with all of your normal unrealistic biggest number stuff. I don't know if you have a Patreon page, but having one would make your path clear. You do what the money (Patreaon) tells you to do.

[@GroovesAndLands]

Ouch. Fatalistic perspective there. I've spen't a lot of time on the dyno and you simply NEVER have the time to do everything you want. You just have to make do. Never enough time, parts or people for everything you want to test and try. Richard has been pumping out videos - but most of it is sharing tests performed long long ago. Tests of cool engine parts of all sorts of stuff - this is the meat and potatoes stuff that develops someone's feel and understanding of how engines can be made awesome - all delivered to you nearly free. This is great stuff, man!

[@richardholdener1727]

Thnx-though I'm not an employee of Westech

[@maxhorner2409]

How bout a street/truck avenger vs a summit copy? Makes sense that both carbs had a lot of the same features since Holley is racing company and everythin they do on racin stuff filters down to the street stuff.

[@claibornewoodlief8310]

Richard you should have mill the air horn off of the brawler carburetor the results and how RPM would have been a lot closer than what do you think Richard

[@richardholdener1727]

the results were already close

[@joepanciarello5211]

How about testing the Holley high zoot carb against their Synper fuel injection?

[@torino0170]

Try a Predator carburetor. I have never seen one in action.

[@tabasco7915]

How responsive is the brawler throttle response from a dead stop (out of the box application)? For instance, do they stumble like the older Holley square bores did? I always appreciated the instant throttle response that was common with the old Rochester's.

[@terrysmith8133]

a test and a explanation of the difference between the many holley carbs, demon, xp, dominator, quick fuel, proform, original, hp,street, avenger

[@x1boomer]

how close do you think a brawler w/o the choke would be to the XP? i think that would have been a closer comparison. i think if you are going to mention weight of the carbs, time to get the scale out so the viewers can see the difference. keep the videos coming.

[@johnelliott7375]

No surprise on price increase after free advertisement for them sadly.

[@BOOT]

You could prob compare ten 750 brawlers and get a slight range of HP difference because of lower machining tolerances. Ten Ultra XP should be tighter/closer to the same. Billet isn't always good, it depends on the machining. Race carbs sell but people want them to act/drive like a vac secondary carb and that is where custom tuning comes into play