LS&I of the 21st Century: Michigan's Iron Ore Road

[@m.e.g.a.n.l.e.i.g.h]

My dad is writing this so here he is, Hi, I lived up in the up of Michigan and took the highway 35 that ran along side of the railway and watched these trains many times on there way back from their unloading in other iron ore sidings. Great real stuff. Thanks for the memory jog. Alan W.

[@barleyeducated8714]

Years and years in the future viewers will be saying such a great documentary, and will be lamenting as to why can't they make things like this anymore. Truly an outstanding endeavor. Thanks!

[@jlpapple]

This is an outstanding production. My grandfather was an industrial cinematographer and your approach is towards the very top of production values on all of KZbin. Well done Alex.

[@ghanus2009]

This is VERY captivating. I was not even looking for railroad videos, happened upon this totally by accident and had to watcch the whole thing. That train / ship dock gravity loading system is amazing, and that it was built well over 100 years ago and still working like it is today. Absolutely amazing engineering. you r documentary on this process is outstanding. The Smithsonian channel should broadcast this.

[@alcopower5710]

Wow.....this is a first class documentary. Top shelf video and perfect angles, extremely knowledgeable and very informative, and older equipment (which is loads better than anything new) = an awesome video.

[@ViewpointUnique]

From the filming, editing, to the research and narration, I am virtually guaranteed a fantastic experience every time I watch either yours, Delay In Block's, or Distant Signal's videos. Well done, as always!

[@michigandon]

Yes, all of the aforementioned channels are great. I like them because they cover territories that I am familiar with and/or grew up around.

[@Stoker58]

Wonderful documentary. I immediately thought of this video recently when it was announced that Cleveland Cliffs would be idling North Shore Minings operations. The future of this railroad is not looking good, so thank you for capturing it in its contemporary prime!

[@amessman]

22:35 Wonderful explanation of the operations!

[@WideWorldofTrains]

Love those U30C and C30-7 units

[@ArkadiuszPL]

Awesome work! Your videos are one of the best railroad material on KZbin for sure. 10/10 !

[@mattiverson4654]

You hit the nail right on the head

[@Alexlfm]

Just wanted to say thanks for the great video and specifically the historical information. As a Michigander and someone who has spent almost every summer in the UP, this is very detailed. I’ve done almost all of the local historical tours from Ishpeming to Sault Ste. Marie as well as the museums (especially railroad) and and have never gotten as detailed of information as is in your videos. Also thanks for the book recommendations, I’ll definitely be picking those up.

[@markmeeker2300]

My late Father and Law served his whole career workin the dock at Presque Isle.. I was invited up there one cold nasty day in January. Scary place, and with the constant wind.. No fence and walkways were two by six boards over the open pockets. Neat to watch from up top

[@danmathers141]

This is an incredible video. It is of special interest to me since I first saw the ore dock when I went to NMU in Marquette Michigan in 1969. I had incredible views when walking between buildings. I appreciate the up close views as my view back then was a long way away. I love the detail and history.

[@MBTrains1205]

Keep up the amazing work! I love all the videos, commentary, and hard work you put into all these awesome documentaries!

[@oldg7847]

Agreed 👍

[@cgwF7A]

Very well done! A piece of railroading that I'll probably never see in person, but I still got to experience the essence of the LS&I through this video. And I'm glad to see there are still some classic U series and C series GE's in revenue service.

[@gregginter5867]

Excellent commentary! Ty

[@SD457500]

Well done; those old GEs have been on my to shoot list for a long time. Great video!

[@chromabotia]

The photography, the framing and lighting, the time of year, the research and commentary, the graphics, drones and editing ~ well Wowza!! Just brilliant ~ Thanks to the whole team that made this happen.

[@gregginter5867]

I am enthralled by LS&I's unique blend of different ore Jenny styles...traditional ore cars w/smooth n ribbed spill tops, taller ribbed Ore cars w/no spill additions, tub n straight angled ore cars. They truly do use their equipment to the nth degree.

[@NapierNimbus]

Excellent, lovely locations, light, sound, colours and coverage.

[@trainkid16]

I've been interested in the LS&I for a very long time, and this plus your recent videos have been very informative. It's great to see an overview of the full railroad, as well as the nitty-gritty of the mine to dock operations. I look forward to someone covering my railroad as well as you did this one. Great work.

[@darrenadams13]

That’s some really impressive footage and research you put into all of that.. well done !

[@larryblaha]

Great video & audio. Love those U-boat's

[@Unstopy]

6:00 I remember standing at this crossing myself when I first caught an LS&I empty coming out from the yard, exactly like this one

[@gregbowen617]

Great video of a very interesting operation. Your research is first class and camera and editing excellent!!! The drone footage adds a dimension that few could normally ever see... well done 👍🏼 cheers from Melbourne Australia 🇦🇺

[@danielkennedy1524]

Another outstanding footage by Thornapple!

[@ericthered1140]

Gorgeous Views...great aerial work. Im recently laid off at Union Pacific Proviso due to Covid but still love railroading.

[@Luke173]

This Clip is a masterpiece! Many thanks for sharing this many informations about a small route with us.

[@mikemarshall1394]

Great camera work. Creative shooting angles and locations set you above all the point and shooters. Obvious forethought and research was put into your product.

[@michigandon]

Probably the best video I've seen about the LS&I since Pentrex's "Michigan Ore Lines". Haven't watched it in its entirety yet, but I intend to.

[@raylz19]

I recently discovered your channel from a recommendation by You Tube. I immediately subscribed. I like how you covered this railroad and its operation. Thank you.

[@colinsmith4453]

What an outstanding video, I thoroughly enjoyed watching it, kudos to Thornaple

[@HyperActive7]

Upers would be proud of this. It's a part of the country few get to venture to. And another nice nugget is I remember when HECR had a couple of the C30-7s and would switch Durand's yard.

[@electric7487]

Especially so given that 3000 and 3009 are THE LAST U30C's in revenue service anywhere in the USA.

[@alj9713]

One of the best documentaries I have seen.

[@martinhestermans4247]

Excellent documentary. Research and filming are of a high professional level. Great class!

[@ThornappleRiverRailSeries]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@55DepotStreet]

A delightful rail video! I absorb rail videos as I find them soothing. Something about the steady power, the repetitious sound, and the magnificent beauty surrounding the trains is hypnotic. Thanks for an “extremely professional” production. Calm knowledgeable voice, terrific sound reproduction, and flawless angles and steady shots make your videos as good as it gets. Thank you for your love of production excellence, love of trains, and refrain from begging likes and subscribes. Later, 🐊

[@kc8rbk73]

Great job on the video. Thanks for all the hard work it took to bring this to us.

[@kineticarrangements]

Alex, your videography is looking better than ever. Love watching these!

[@desmindw]

beautiful watching and listening to excellent narration

[@scootosan]

Great video from the surface to the aerial and educational.

[@timothyandelmo541]

Excellent vid!!!!

[@kenmunozatmmrrailroad6853]

Wonderful video. A huge fan of ore trains, I subbed thusly; we don’t get them out west on my local lines too often. Thanks!

[@jbdixs]

One Out Standing Video Keep Up The Great Work

[@williamhager1872]

A spectacular presentation! Thank you & Merry Christmas.

[@iusetano]

Bravo!!!!! Fantastic video. A great Christmas present Alex.

[@FloodManagementGroup]

Great job! Very informative. Thank you

[@cnnw3929]

This makes me wonder how much longer we'll be able to hear those Leslie RS-3K horns. That would all depend on how much more time LS&I can extract out of those old former BN U-Boats. Looks like they're still holding up well, since I was in the area more than 30 years ago!

[@briangeorge7346]

Wow very well done. Thank you so much.

[@Jackshaft]

Have you seen the bridge in Marquette? It's a short walk down the tracks from a cemetery...

[@ddover5182]

Great shots! Thanks for the upload!

[@mattiverson4654]

Very nice and Merry Christmas Alex

[@RobertBardos]

Cool film nice shots you took. Very relaxing

[@billtimmons7071]

You're spoiling us railfans. The video quality is such that it seems we are on site with you. 2020 is going to be a great year. Cheers and happy New Year.

[@ishpeming5]

Thank you very much for this video. It gave me the opportunity to see what my father saw during his years working for the LS&I. Living almost all of my life in Ishpeming, I am eminently familiar with the passing railroad trains. However, I had even a closer association. My father began working for the railroad shortly before World War II and returned after the war, continuing to work there until his retirement in the 1980s. He spoke often of the Dead River Bridge, so I especially enjoyed seeing it. Best memory: Riding the rails allowed dad to pick out and cut down the best Christmas tree which he would drop off the train and we would go and pick up to use in our home. Thanks again.

[@tonyfarmer6361]

Great vid thanks for all you hard work putting it together 👍

[@StormySkyRailProductions]

Awesome video once again.

[@Brian_rock_railfan]

Awesome video liked 🚄🚄 and also merry Christmas Thornapple River Rail Series and everyone else 🎄

[@RemiCardona]

I'd been getting somehow worried with the trough of video uploads. Anyhow, you're not dead, so… yay! I'm sure there are reasons for that (I read down below you're going through finals? If so, hang in there!) Just wanted to say you produce some of the best train videos I've ever seen, they rival (if not surpass) commercial stuff I pick up in specialized magazines, and this video is no exception. Happy holidays.

[@ThornappleRiverRailSeries]

Thanks! Most of the drought was simply a result of my summer internship where I was away from home and thus my editing computer, and then all fall I was out shooting and then preparing this huge piece. I should have multiple uploads over the next couple of months at least!

[@Tuppoo94]

I watched the whole thing, even though I know pretty much nothing about trains. As a business student, it's interesting to see a railroad being operated entirely as a for-profit business. Here in Europe our railways are usually state-run, and mostly for passenger traffic.

[@Alexlfm]

Tuppoo94 The UP is very unique in that so much of it (towns and all) was created by the railroad and mining companies (who worked hand in hand) to facilitate mining, timber, or even recreation. Almost nobody lived in the UP apart from very small shipping towns before they came in. One of the most popular Michigan tourist towns, Mackinac Island, was also started by the railroad (prior to that it was just an outpost). Although this happened in the western US as well, there weren’t so many towns in such a small area created by private industry as there is in northern Michigan.

[@phuturephunk]

Well done! That was fantastic!

[@Bhil3]

As a former yooper, and a railroad buff I really enjoyed this.

[@ThornappleRiverRailSeries]

Glad to hear it!

[@AgrarfilmeNorddeutschland]

Great video, thanks for sharing! Good work!

[@jessestarks3128]

Nice to know there are still a few old U-Boats at work.

[@MeigsCountyRR]

I may have said this before, but that is fantastic video work! Greg in TN

[@gregginter5867]

Do tailing mountains elicit toxic water run-off?

[@stuartadamsrailfanningvideos]

This is a really cool and unique railroad that I've read about recently in Trains Magazine.

[@traintalkproductions5934]

What's the best way to get to the Dead River trestle?

[@ThornappleRiverRailSeries]

There's no kosher way, technically...

[@tombrandt4703]

Extremely informativem Thank you!

[@xChevyBuilder920]

Great video, always wondered about this railroad.

[@David-vn7th]

I just recently discovered your site. Very well done. I do have a question about the empty ore train. Why are the train speeds so slow? Thanks again for a great site.

[@ThornappleRiverRailSeries]

No reason for high speeds when the railroad is under 30 miles long

[@David-vn7th]

@@ThornappleRiverRailSeries Thank you. New here, didn’t realize the RR was that short. Really like your videos.

[@KhangLuRailVideos]

Very well done!

[@chrischiampo7647]

Reminder Set 😀😊👀👍🏼

[@tedzeiller2711]

Great camera work!

[@MeigsCountyRR]

As my modeling skills improve, I plan on modeling the LS&I (well, a short portion of it). Hopefully, I can get the dock eventually. I already have two green locomotives 3073 and 3074, and many LS&I ore cars. It should be an interesting project. Videos such as yours inspired me to do it and yours provide great detail for someone who has never been to the UP. Thanks a lot! :)

[@ThornappleRiverRailSeries]

How many ore cars do you have? I roster 140 Walthers cars, both MI and MN styles. I have about 60 of them finished with individual numbers and weathered, working on getting the remainder renumbered overwinter and hopefully weathered later in the spring when I can clear-coat outside again! I also have completed models of the 2402, 2404, 2500 and 2501.

[@MeigsCountyRR]

@@ThornappleRiverRailSeries I am just starting. But I have 20 so far, some of them RTR and some of them kits. I know in reality there's a ton of them.

[@sol3cito33]

Absolutely amazing!

[@fireutility21]

What is the green covered jenny seen @7:54?

[@FoxRiverRailfan]

How would one access the Dead River Bridge? I checked the place out on Google Maps and it looked completely inaccessible.

[@cdsmock4512]

Local secret. 😉

[@matthewbuhrmann1777]

I believe there is a trail

[@terryboyer1342]

Love it!

[@lowz1369]

Currently up here in the U.P there’s like 2 feet of snow you got lucky to see this before the weather came in.

[@ThornappleRiverRailSeries]

Indeed! I go to MTU so I know what you mean. This all was shot in the fall/spring seasons from 2017-2019

[@halochiefs]

My late uncle use to be a conductor for those trains and had told my aunty who has now told me how he almost killed a group of kids who where standing on the dead river bridge. He said they barley made it off before the train reached them.

[@Railfan9743]

Great video!

[@michaelvelik8779]

Didn't expect segmented rail, interesting.

[@Token_Nerd]

Great video as always Alex. Out of curiosity, do you know why the LS&I still uses the pre-WWII cars to carry iron ore? Is it to reduce axle loading on the tracks, or perhaps to save money by not remodelling the dock terminal?

[@caelumvaldovinos5318]

It's more like "don't fix what ain't broke"

[@Jimboslice425]

Those cars are what fit on the dock and line up best for the pockets. I’ve been told that longer cars don’t line up over the pockets correctly and would require too much shuffling.

[@ThornappleRiverRailSeries]

As noted by the two previous replies, there's a combination of fitting the dock and "it ain't broke". So first and perhaps foremost, Cliffs isn't going to spend money they don't have to. And second, this ore car fleet is unique not just because they're short cars, but they're narrow, too. They had looked at buying new 24' cars when the BNSF and CN did for their Minnesota iron ore operations, but opted out in part due to the additional cost of re-engineering the cars to fit the narrow Marquette Dock. The 9000-series cars are ex-DM&IR and had to be narrowed by 8" to fit the LS&I's dock. In some of the scenes, you can see the difference in width, as the 1000-series cars for instance are even narrower. Combine all that, and so far they have not been able to justify the cost of new cars.

[@MrCulldog]

I have a question that I think would be difficult to google. How do the engines pushing in the rear of the train get the throttle & control signals from the front train?

[@ThornappleRiverRailSeries]

Radio, when it is done by DPU. Some areas still use manned helpers, where the rear-end crew also communicates by radio, but obviously with voice instead of data commands.

[@MrCulldog]

Thornapple River Rail Series thanks for your reply! Interesting that they do the communication by radio. It makes the most sense as data radio can transmit to a fair distance on low power. (WiFi for example). I do know that some older trains use physical cables but I figured that was older technology. Thanks again!

[@jacksak]

The Presque Isle Power Plant was decommissioned on March 31, 2019 and its generating capacity was replaced by two new gas fired power plants according to Wikipedia. I was sorry to read that.

[@Army_Outdoors_88N]

This is so awesome. I'm moving this fall to Kentucky from Alaska and definitely planning on coming to video and picture this railroad operation. Any tips or special coordination, or are they used to seeing cameras and railfans?

[@ThornappleRiverRailSeries]

They put up with railfans. Don't ask them for any favors, though. Normal no trespassing type rules typically apply.

[@Army_Outdoors_88N]

@@ThornappleRiverRailSeries figured they be more amicable to railfans. they are literally history in motion

[@majorphoto]

beautiful drone footage 51:36

[@johnmacqueen1777]

Outstanding video! Curious what radio channels they use?

[@ThornappleRiverRailSeries]

They are digital now

[@lindsaymoore7232]

Hello Alex, this is another great video of which I truly enjoyed. I was wondering what scanner you use and where did you get it? Also wondering how you produce these videos. What resources do you use?

[@ThornappleRiverRailSeries]

Details in the description

[@randomdude440]

How do you make these documentaries? Edit: And how do you know all this history stuff about trains

[@ramtuff2007]

good video love trains

[@terryboyer1342]

Any idea what the white covered gons were carrying by the CN?

[@jwernhol]

From the Eagle Mine in Big Bay and the Mineral Range RR.

[@terryboyer1342]

@@jwernhol i think I heard something to effect that it's some sort of ore that's toxic. That's why it's covered and that it goes to Nevada for smelting?

[@Jimboslice425]

Nickel and copper concentrate.

[@ThornappleRiverRailSeries]

@jwernhol is correct, copper and nickel ore from the Eagle Mine. They are covered for two reasons: first, they are *just* radioactive enough to be considered a low-level hazmat in the US, hence the placards. Second, the ore is of a sulfide variety, so if it gets wet, it will create sulfuric acid, and there is a risk that it will self-ignite. Add to that the fact that the ore is a powder after the mill is done with the flotation process, and you'd end up with a muddy soup if it got wet. So ultimately there are good reasons they those gons are covered and sealed tight! The LS&I would have the same "soup" problem if the ore got wet, except the iron ore folks pelletize the ore so it will work in a blast furnace. Ore to be smelted is just fine as a powder, but in a blast furnace, the extreme upward draft would simply blow the iron ore dust away, when it needs to melt and fall to the bottom. So it is pelletized. Otherwise, after separation by floatation, the iron ore is in the same powder stage as the nickel and copper from the Eagle Mine.

[@terryboyer1342]

@@ThornappleRiverRailSeries Thank you for the reply and explanation. It's greatly appreciated!

[@mijyadoc5374]

I sincerely hope more people will Hit the "subscribe" and Click that "bell". Your work here is beyond compare. Thank you!

[@phillipgarrow2297]

I really enjoyed the video

[@douglasskaalrud6865]

You have to really admire a railroad that schedules trains around their crews’ down times. If you operate like clockwork it’s easier to have all the pieces scheduled farther out and everyone’s a little happier. When I was growing up it was a rare sight to see my locomotive engineer uncle at family gatherings because he’d been called just a couple hours prior to the event. Railroading is good money but you give up most of your freedom to get it.

[@jasonbabila6006]

The GN later BN did hauled ore to the docks, I’m not sure if the BNSF continued after the 1996 merger.

[@ThornappleRiverRailSeries]

BNSF continues to move ore to Allouez just south of Superior, WI on the old BN property. So yes it is possible that these units were once in ore service on the BN, too, but the U30Cs and C30-7s were most common in coal service.

[@dannywilliamson3340]

What's "extended range" dynamic braking?

[@ThornappleRiverRailSeries]

Earlier iterations of dynamic braking had stricter limits on how long they could be run at higher amperage. Since dynamics essentially burn off electricity through grids of resistor wire just like a toaster does, keeping the whole thing cool is a challenge. Later models extended the range with better cooling and such.

[@Ceylonrailway123]

❤❤❤ beautiful lanka

[@caelumvaldovinos5318]

I never understood why railroads would order diesels w/o dynamic brakes. I mean, it's one of the big selling points for diesels over steam

[@ThornappleRiverRailSeries]

The old U30Cs and C30-7s have dynamic brakes. They just don't have *extended range* dynamic brakes. Basically the older dynamics get too hot after awhile and need to be shut off, and the LS&I's big hill is long enough for that to become an issue. Newer units have much more cooling built into the dynamic brake system and thus can run much longer, effectively indefinitely I believe. For those unaware, dynamic brakes dissipate the electricity generated as heat using the same technology as your toaster uses to toast bread. So you can imagine if you're not doing anything to cool it down and you're running hundreds of times the current through it, that you may need to shut it down after awhile!

[@railroadmike6843]

@@ThornappleRiverRailSeries The extended range dynamic brake has more to do with it's effective abilities at lower speeds. The U and C 30 units were originally used in long distance main line service. They have standard dynamic brakes. The AC 4400 has a totally different system. It uses high power electric cooling fans in an enclosed compartment instead of the mechanical prime mover driven radiator fans on the older units. So at slower speed( the entire LS&I) there isn't enough draw for the dynamics to hold a train below 15 mph, where the AC4400 can draw dynamic brake down to zero mph.

[@michigandon]

What is the purpose of those green idler(?) ore jennies with the white cover?

[@ThornappleRiverRailSeries]

I include it at some point in the video as a recall, but they are scale test cars

[@michigandon]

@@ThornappleRiverRailSeries that's what I though they were, but wasn't certain.