LS1 CARBS vs EFI-WHO WINS?

[@UnityMotorSportsGarage]

That is why feel that Annular Boosters is a huge win when ran on Tunnel Ram Manifolds... You get the charge cooling... BUT you are delivering a finer droplet of fuel which will produce even more power than your typical straight leg or downleg style boosters... You knocked the ball out of the park on this one!!! Great info.... Andy

[@chettrockwell]

Yup he used bag o shit straight leg carbs.

[@daxtonbrown]

I'm running the Edelbrock AVS2 carbs on my Camaro and they do make a difference. And cheap too. I don't need the computer headaches.

[@tahcogunworks]

Annular are awesome. Just as long as you dont go full rich on top end.

[@UnityMotorSportsGarage]

@@tahcogunworks I admit they can be tricky.. but with Emulsion and high speed bleed tuning you can get the fuel curve pretty flat.. just takes a bit of time and patience! Lol

[@soulcapitalist6204]

Annulars and programmable ignition timing has made carbs great again. Shout out to datalogging, too.

[@evil_me]

Well in the late 90s we played around with a 5th injector setup in a staged fashion. It was mounted in the inlet of the single throttle body and only added fuel above certain loads. It was on a 13b p port motor with high compression rotors, we were trying to reduce detonation and honestly it allowed us 4° more timing so it helped that motor. I really love all of your testing videos!

[@JingleBop]

I might be mistaken but I'm pretty sure Holdener talked about that exact thing in another video. Maybe his stacks video?

[@JingleBop]

Also, water meth!

[@pancudowny]

Nothing I ain't seen done with the factory 7th injector on turbo Buicks...!

[@Go4BrokeOffroad]

The extra injector pulsed by the coil- with b+ from a psi switch was the shit before tuners became a norm

[@sebbonxxsebbon6824]

My old tpi had a 9th injector for cold starts and could be used for the same thing.

[@unclesquirrel6951]

I'm really looking forward to seeing the 500 caddy on the dyno

[@unclesquirrel6951]

Jeff Kopis 👉🏻🐿🐿👈🏻

[@puffkendrick6850]

I'll second that motion

[@theall-seeingpie8887]

Yeah buddy I feel like we have been waiting forever

[@IanB22]

Do it ;)

[@TheNumbers400]

Ingenious to use the carbs as throttle bodies, well done. Now we just all need to run methanol injection from behind our air filter to gain as much charge air cooling as possible while keeping port injection. :P

[@shotgunenvy2657]

Love your vids man, you're helping so many people with your work.

[@mikef-gi2dg]

I watched this again, and wow, the intake design IS the key factor. You proved your point, again.

[@merylpelosi8485]

This is the best channel. You've answered questions I've had for years. People don't understand why dyno time is so expensive. Your side by side comparisons take a lot of the guesswork, mystery, and myth out of the complex task of making power. Keep up the good work.

[@Zekais]

I don't usually watch Chivvie engined videos, and definitely not LS (yawn) stuff, but I've wanted to see results from a thorough tester like you on the old FI vs Carb question. You did not disappoint. Dare I say brilliant to run carbs as air only meters while injecting? I dare. Run FI or carb(s) as YOU prefer. Case closed. I have Mass Air injection on my '72 F100 w/ mildly modded 302 inline valve heads, TBI (ancient, manually adjusted) on my '86 Ranger w/ mildly modded 351C, Pro Systems Holley on '80 Pinto w/ rather nasty 351 Clevor and Holley Sniper EFI on '72 Pinto with nasty Boss 302. All have their good and bad. All do the job. Being a very low budget guy these days, I use what I have or can afford to get that theoretically matches the requirements. Best bang for buck is by far the Pro Systems carb, no contest. It is a helluva lot messier to make tuning changes on, but infinitely easier to tune than the old ProJection4. Salute, Mr. Holdener.

[@erandy0240]

sounds like u have some cool ford stuff man! I agree 200 percent about LS and Chevy stuff. nothing bores me to tears then small block Chevys new or old! feel like Chevy could make the biggest pile of garbage v8 engine ever and everyone would love it

[@scotthansen2240]

I was literally going to ask what your take on throttle body injection was then you answered my question. Love the mass of real world information as usual! Thank you for discovering and proving so many theories!

[@HGHG-sd4ht]

From all the videos I have seen on youtube regarding EFi vs carb, this one was the most educated one, reasoning behind it was very well explained especially at the very last test where Richard proves method of delivery ( efi vs carb) has no affect on HP but place of delivery has an affect, given all other equations are the same . Very well explained Richard, impressive , thank you. This is what I call testing!!

[@richardholdener1727]

Glad it was helpful!

[@thehotrodstation3313]

Already had my comment loaded until the last few seconds of video. You answered it. All hail Richard Holdener king of the dyno! Everything has its place,if you tune it,,,,,it will make power... Great vids!

[@patrickmontgomery6353]

Richard, your videos are always awesome. Cold start, on the fly adjustments for efi are nice, but one thing that you can never get is feeling the secondaries of a double pumper in the pedal. All the old school hot rodders know this one... Thanks as always for your work.

[@calvinevans8305]

I love how you ran the carbs like throttle bodies for the port injection, I've never seen anyone do that.

[@pancudowny]

Still waiting on that carb vs. self-contained bolt-on TBI test, Rich...!

[@EricErnst]

That techno intro music from the last few videos is hilarious. Thanks for putting a smile on my face. Lol

[@deanstevenson6527]

Eric Ernst : Almost Moby style Techno...were Are all Stars!

[@mikev.7361]

The reason I went with EFI is for fuel economy in the long run to be honest... Awesome video, very informative :D

[@jsnyara]

Thanks for taking the time to set this up and running these tests! Now I need to find more info on blowthru carb setups

[@yinzer_412_]

An Old method reborn. My dad ran mechanical fuel injection most of racing career. He started using them circa 1972. He put his injectors in the stacks above the throttle valves running gasoline for this very reason. He says methanol isn't as critical. You can put them an 1 1/2" above the intake port base.

[@davidst.pierre2876]

Thanks for shedding light on the truth behind the controversy

[@chrisgallimore9083]

Nice test. I'd like to see a comparison between boosted EFI and Turbo Blow-through to see the difference.

[@bert5003]

check out steve morris' article with hotrod. he prefers carbs for his 1500+hp turbo motors for the fact that you get the phase change cooling across the carbs dropping temps even more than just the intercooler by itself.

[@heathsmetalwerx]

Draw through would be interesting

[@walkinshawkiwi]

@@bert5003 He has something on KZbin with a forced induction engine where he swapped a carb for efi and it lost power.

[@madhut3042]

@@heathsmetalwerx I've heard people have found frost on their manifold from a draw through carb turbo setup

[@tomtom1541]

@@bert5003 but if you use throttle body injection you will have identical charge cooling.

[@derekmelton3915]

Are you in Southern California if so you need to arrange a get-together meet and greet at one of the breweries. Been a mechanic for 30 years 48 years old so sick of cars but I am addicted to your channel the knowledge and information you give out takes years to learn

[@Ben-uf3dc]

Richard, you always say everyone says you dont know what your doing!? I havent seen a negative comment yet. I havent read all comments on every vid though. Love your info. Keep up the great content!

[@edpetrocelli2633]

very cool test, used the 650`s as throttle bodies, great information

[@95GTSpeedDemon]

Richard is doing the lord's work. This was an awesome test!

[@richarddixon70]

The charge cooling from the carburetors is why 6-71 Roots blowers worked so well. They didn't need intercoolers because the fuel was cooling the compressed air. I now see companies using port injection under the roots superchargers (Edelbrock) and they have to add an intercooler. If they would put the nozzles in a plate under the throttle bodies on top of the blower, they could eliminate that added complexity (like old school blown dragsters). They would also have the added benefit of very a well mixed mixture and with a little more care in intake design, more even fuel ratios negating the need for individual cylinder tuning. It would also open up the possibility of using two sets of injectors. One set above the blower for part throttle and charge cooling, then adding port injectors for high boost with max power and cylinder tuning. Wish I had the money to build such a system for my 1990 heavy ass Suburban to replace its puny swirl port TBI.

[@silkyjohnson389]

Great video! I love seeing carbs vs. Efi because everytime it proves carbs aren't lame old technology, especially on blower applications running alcohol

[@rossracing6433]

Whatever you're comfortable working with and tuning on is better for you.

[@markbuskens6070]

Man I don’t know how you can think of so many things to try!!!!!Im 60 years old and have always loved reading about motor builds, I would read and read and think about every little detail since I was 13.You are up there with Smokey Yunick , Grumpy Jenkins,.Bill Glidden,Gale Banks and Nelson in their day, that’s a tremendous compliment!!!!!Im really not surprised that the carbs did so well,also that 2 650 cfm carbs were sufficient on a dang near 600 hp 5.7!!!Loved the carbs as throttle bodies just to compare, you are a professional motor builder no doubt!I have a suggestion how bout quench? You know piston to flat part of the cylinder head test?If you be done it I missed it🥴also how about cutting the combustion chamber out to the bore around the valves test, I know that it works.Ok, one more solid verses hydraulic roller cams?You’re my favorite by far I don’t even watch the other guys at all,can’t wait till the next one 🤗🤗

[@erenzoscroggins8056]

Great test Richard.... Finally another Carb Vs FI.... At the end of the day I believe it's just preference... we all have seen plenty Carbs kick FI ass most the time especially N/A combos and some power adder combo's as well..... But I don't doubt either one myself🤷🏾‍♂️💪🏾💪🏾💪🏾

[@robertb3409]

Another great video. I like how you did the comparison of the between efi and carb.

[@mikef-gi2dg]

That was a interesting test. Didn't expect the carbs with port injection would match the port injection in power, or that the carbs would best it like that. So a single plane port injected manifold, with say a 950 dominator on top with a tps would make as much power as those expensive throttle bodies they sell? Or just go to a Sniper TB with fuel. The problem is cost, starting at $1500 up.

[@merritts3515]

The dual quad lid performs better because the air comes straight down through the barrel. Air doesn't like to turn down into the engine. Also just the coolness adds power.

[@paulboissiere1278]

Dude!! Another fantastic vid. I really dig learning from your content. It’s so straight forward, and entertaining.

[@GIGABACHI]

HA ! NAILED IT ! That was my guess, charge cooling. I been watching your videos long enough now that some of the stuff thrown around it's starting to stick to The Wall(me). 👌👀

[@thegdfp6447]

I'd like to see what happens if you put injectors in the manifold lid, giving some time for charge cooling, and possibly better atomization. Inside the plenum would also be fine, and hidden. That Rochester Fulie 'vette setup, if not so big bucks.

[@QuicKurtZX14R]

A lot of motorcycles use a lower set of injectors that spray fuel at the intake valves as well as upper showerhead injectors, like on some older F1 engine's I've seen. They locate them in the airbox lid on the motorcycles.

[@daveb1870]

Awesome video, as always the numbers are factual. The biggest advantage to fuel injection is as you stated; control of each port. This isnt the case with the other fuel supplied systems, thats based on averages. Id say the other reason for fuel injection advantages is; atmospheric conditions and power adders. The control over these with the proper tuning and data is certainly a good reason for fuel injection. Fuel injection as its disadvantages as there are more components for diagnostic trouble shooting and figuring out what part is the problem. Carb's have their own issues too; floats sticking, secondaries sticking, but they are so much more simple to diagnose and quicker to remedy.

[@roknroy1]

great video! precious info that no one has done fi for daily, carb for track!

[@fherruv4192]

Gracias por hacer los comparativos 👍

[@Karkmotuning]

Great to see how the fuelinjection and air through the carbs played out, love these kinds of videos. How about running pump gas vs E85?, and perhaps how to tune two or three carbs for E85, what afr numbers etc to go for.

[@Wolf462]

Before watching the video I’m gonna say EFI produces more power. I thought this was obvious and kinda common knowledge but hell, the stuff I’ve already learned from watching Richards videos tells me I don’t know nearly as much as I thought I did- so Thank you for the education Sir!

[@Wolf462]

Jeff Kopis Ok thanks, I’ll check that out! Mostly I just thought EFI was much easier to tune and control and so therefore would net more gains, but what the hell do I know?

[@Shane-Singleton]

This was a fun one. Too bad you didn't have two large TBI units to test against. Or even one large TBI setup. I'd think you'd get the best of both worlds there. The great granular control and drivability coupled with the charge cooling given the distance traveled with fuel in the air would be the same as a carb.

[@toefield251]

I would like to see that too. And TBI vs. carb as I commented above.

[@lloydholt6511]

Shane Singleton I saw one Dino run as you stated one with carburation and one with a Tbi unit using the same intake. Carb won, but not by much less than 5 hp. Don’t remember the specifics. This test was run by a u-tuber Nicks Garage. I’m sure you can look him on up on you tube and find his list of videos with this test in it. It would still be a good test to run

[@Shane-Singleton]

@@lloydholt6511 Big fan of Nick's Garage. The one thing the Dyno doesn't simulate is the all weather cold start capability and smooth operation of fuel injection.

[@lloydholt6511]

Shane Singleton I agree completely. I would gladly give up ten hp for the increased street ability and cold start performance of fuel injection whether TBI or port injection. The only advantage I see for port injection on the street is the ability to balance fuel flow between cylinders. On the track conditions are different.

[@Shane-Singleton]

@@lloydholt6511 I think that David Freiburger did a port injection test on Engine Masters where they took air/fuel readings on each cylinder to find out if it made that much difference. The thing is, though, that any port or TBI injection setup still only gets its readings from 1 or possibly 2 upstream sensors so it's balancing air/fuel for a bank rather than for each cylinder. I still love EFI, though.

[@thetriode]

This is a great set of tests. I think the real winner here is the consumer who has a choice of how to make their power.

[@jasonpipkin1249]

I’m just going to start referring to you as Professor Holdener. I’ve learned so much it’s a shame I can’t do much more than give you KZbin views.

[@deanstevenson6527]

Jason Pipkin : Richard is very carefull to spoon feed us. His sharing is gentle and everyone just kinda get awestruck. The reader and viewership grows gently and thats the best way. No one is alienated on a Westech and Richard Holdener KZbin vid. This is simply the best media and best discovery channel since a bunch of dudes in Europe decided to Go East to get to the Wild West. You found the beach head brothers.

[@spazda_mx5]

You don't know what you're doing! 😅 What about throttle body injection! 😅 Another great video, thanks Richard! I'd love to see a test with individual throttle bodies and the injector outside the bellmouth, but quite an expensive setup I imagine...

[@richardholdener1727]

Points

[@johnq.citizen8076]

@@richardholdener1727 It would be interesting to see a test with the carbs or throttle bodies with injectors placed high up on a tunnel ram, and see the differences between using 100% alcohol vs. a 90%-10% alcohol and distilled water mix in a 16:1 comp. ratio engine

[@StickShiftMuscle]

Carbs For The Win! My 8.1 vortec 496 was fuel injection and I converted it to Darts Dual plane intake with a Carb set up! Always liked old school carbs.

[@lukestrasser]

Richard, why didn't you run throttle body injection, and then split the fuel between the throttle body and the port injection for individual cylinder trims? That fixes both problems! Then blow through all of it with a S475 because everything is better with BOOST.

[@Oldsoldiersays]

The Carb vs EFI question is most relevant in budget backyard builds on motors without cheap support. For instance, your typical 2v mustang 99-04. You add your cams, port the heads, put the headers on the motor and you are at a point where you add a bigger throttle body, but wait, what intake? There is the shittastic stock one, the TFS intake for 1000, which uses a different style throttle body, a professional products one that will crack every 6 months for 350, or a custom one for 2500. Then you add injectors and your throttle body, then you have to upgrade the mass air meter, then you have to tune in. All told just in the intake/air system your in it for 3 grand if you do all the labor minus the tuning for 330whp. Now back up. You got your heads/cams finished. You get a victor jr for 325, your 400 carb, your 450 msd 6 box. Now you have a complete system, that is fully maxed NA, that if you tune the carb right will have 2 step, timing retard, nitrous control and will put down 375 to the wheels add day long and a much flatter torque curve.

[@Raymonkey77]

I wished I lived closer, I'd love to go to school there and be the monkey wrench doing the grunt work. I learn a lot from your videos on here. I got a 99 chevy astro van recently and I'd like to learn to fix up the engine (L35?) Vortec 4.3. I'd be tempted to replace the 4.3 with an LS. 4.8 or 5.3 with a little boost.

[@lucysmith4242]

find your local speed shop and tell them you want to learn and work. Get paid for your grunt work and learn while doing it.

[@Raymonkey77]

@@lucysmith4242 unfortunately, there isn't one close by. I'd have to drive to Oklahoma city or Wichita and I live dead center between them. It would be 4 hours a day of driving and I couldn't afford that.

[@chrisreynolds6520]

5.7 Vortec is an easy swap on the 4.3 Astro vans. You can get close to 400 hp out of a Vortec 350 with a cam, headers and tuning.

[@davefuelling7955]

Excellent video and explanation. One test you should have added to ultimately prove your point was to put a couple of throttle body injectors on the top of that manifold.

[@hambone7777777]

Nice test. But, I think atomization of carb mix and some cooling may be the factor. I favor 500 CFM bodies for more velocity and better mix. Velocity that works with valve size and angle job down low as well. I like E85 for the charge cooling and injection for precision, altitude, weather variables/tuning. Then when combined with computer timing and matched variable modes there's no doubt. EFI all day long. I think there may be more power tuning in fuel pressure and injector atomization, alone. And then combined with E85 (40 percent more quantity). But, an EFI tunnel ram, actual cold air on the street, vs heated carb under a hood is still a winner.

[@zachheindl8619]

I was gonna ask about the throttle body injection until you mentioned it. Not so much saying it would be the ultimate, but to ask if it would have the same charge cooling effect. Thanks for answering that! I wonder if you could get the best of both worlds with one of those Moroso Super Cool cans and multi port injection. Or if it just ends up being kind of a gimmick.

[@adamarndt7617]

Bravo! Feel like I'll be referencing this one forever. Just needed the throttle body injection test. ;-) Seriously what I'd like to see is port injection supplimented with a "9th injector" just after the throttle body that only works at WOT to provide charge cooling. (Or water + meth injection.) -The Holley HP definitely supports water + meth injection. A port injected N/A motor with water+meth injection and a start strategy for activating it, should actually support a higher compression ratio and make more torque AND more MPG, too.

[@lloydholt6511]

Adam Arndt I’ve seen water meth and straight meth injected through a perimeter nitrous injection plate. Charge cooling (lowering inlet air temp) was the goal. Kind of a poor mans intercooler for turbo/ turbos/supercharger. On na applications it could also help with detonation and or allow you to use a little more timing. Setting it up with the Holley would be ideal.

[@adamarndt7617]

lloyd holt That’s what I want to see on the dyno.

[@francfurian8215]

That was bloody interesting Richard. Cheers😊

[@bradpittman5075]

I think it’s important to realize that there are generally more than one way to achieve a goal. With this in mind, I think it helps to keep your mind open to new things. Some may work some may not work. But if we never changed something bc it worked we would still be on horses. Not saying you have to try everything, and not saying to acknowledge stupid ideas but definitely good to study different ways of doing things. For example maybe check out how airplanes are wired vs auto wiring. Or an f1 engine system to see if there is anything that you can transfer to your drag racer. Anyways. Thanks Richard.

[@joshmajors5963]

I wish I knew half of what you forgot so far. I knew some of these outcomes but to break down the science of it is so much better. Thank you. I still like the looks of old school carbs better than efi

[@zmanphx]

What application will this high ram fit in with hood clearance? Truck or boat. Love the dyno education series.

[@frigglebiscuit7484]

no. that is your answer LOL.

[@adampatterson707]

Ok Richard this kinda goes with your test. If you would have used a duel plain intake manifold with it's longer runners with a TBI unit, would there be much of a difference between the TBI unit and a carburetor or what if you used port injection in the duel plain intake manifold and a one of those 1,000 CFM throttle bodies? I would think you'd have great charge cooling with the longer runners of the duel plain intake. Thanks again for your hard work Richard.

[@KalvinD]

I would be curious what a dual quad fitech or Holley sniper setup would do (on paper). Thanks for all the informative videos!

[@jeeptk]

Great video and again it comes down to picking the correct combination. I have seen several high dollar EFI setups that were wired incorrectly causing multiple issues for customers. Once corrected they worked awesome and having the ability to tune each cylinder is a big advantage. I’m a carburetor guy. I can make the worst carb perform well. I just think that in today’s performance world EFI will make your life easier. I really like to duel throttle bodies in the tunnel ram and would like to see a twin turbo blow thru test with this combo.

[@jasonboyce9650]

In the past, I remember reading about an old racers trick of adding a screen between the intake and the head to re-aromize fuel just before it enters the combustion chamber. I believe Super Chevy magazine did a test on this & reported that throttle response had improved. Based on your proof that cooler charge is the mitigating factor in making more power in this test, what would happen if you took a k&n style air cleaner & mounted it down by the front airdam, & put the fuel injectors right behind the air cleaner, & placed a few screens at different intervals inside the intake tube to help keep the fuel atomized throughout its long journey to the combustion chamber? Would we experience poor drivability down low? Would we experience fuel puddling? Would we gain a good deal of power from a much cooler charge? Free thinkers want to know the answers to these pressing questions! Btw, great channel & keep up the good work. Moving to a 6.0 in my 66 impala next year!

[@richardholdener1727]

i think that would only act as a restriction

[@jasonboyce9650]

@@richardholdener1727 Not worth a test? Keep it in the "rainy day" pile of ideas!

[@lumpycam302]

excellent comparison as always thanks Mr Holdener

[@davidanderson6706]

Richard Holdener Great test, it was spot on and sums it all up, i think what ppl dont understand is when doing carb or efi is on an intake with equal runner length you can dail in the a/f more evenly between cylinders with a carb vs a single or dual plane intake. With a carb you will simply have charge cooling and with efi port injection you will have control. The real question is what do you want in your engine program. I like carbs but i myself like to make my own sheet metal intakes, it makes life easy for me to tune, efi is great also, but tuning a carb is cheaper and straight forward. Great test Richard. So get off your ass and test some more we need more

[@davidanderson6706]

@Jeff Kopis No. I only make them for my engines. Richard is right. Intakes are rpm specific and dont work how ppl want them to work they work for a specific combination. When u custom fab a intake you can taylor it towards you combination. I would say my goal is to make a consistent intake. Equal runners, signal strength, even distribution. Its not easy to do umder the hood of a car. Plus i was praising Richard because he spend his time testing this stuff for us and some ppl still take it for granted

[@Patricks_Projects]

There are one more thing about carbs against injection. As the 'column' of air is filled with fuel it get´s more inertia to fill the cylinder after btdc. You CAN reach the same effect with injection, but you need to precise the injectors to run at 100% duty at all rpms... you need mechanic injections for that.

[@jgkk5862]

an insightful comment...

[@hom240]

Here is a video ideal. Using a lazer temp gauge measure the temp of the bottom of the manifold during a dyno pull with the carbs and then the fuel injection. It would be interesting to know what the temperature differences were.

[@mikelaumaillier9271]

Excellent comparison !! Could the fact that the Hi Ram has to make a 90% turn affect the airflow therefore reducing the output ? Best Regards

[@lsohweldfab6575]

This is great high-end stuff! May I ask if you are ever interested in grabbing just a 5.7 Vortec with the sequential injector setup and the change over to carburetor to see what to see what kind of operation you can achieve. Those Motors were very plentiful in the mid-to-late 90s. I understand the downfall was the Spider injector set up. And I'm very curious because I have 98 Chevy with the 350. Thanks I like the work you do!

[@JingleBop]

I would love to see a video on water methanol on a turbo setup. Same charge cooling affect as the carbs, but more! Love your videos. So much knowledge!

[@jr78racer]

Just a thought, but in my opinion carburetors make more power because introducing the fuel at the throttle blades does a few things that you can't do with port injection. As you already pointed out, fuel has a cooling effect on the intake air charge. We already know a denser charger produces more power. Well, wouldn't the extra mass of the fuel itself be helpful in producing power? I would think that the added mass, or weight of the fuel, would help to not only straighten the air charge, but speed it up slightly as you have a heavier mass of air moving downward into the cylinders. I'm thinking a small ram air effect, using the fuel as extra weight to do the ramming. As objects in motion tend to want to stay in motion, I'd think that the extra weight of the fuel helps keep the air charge moving. Idk. Maybe you already said it, or said it a little differently. Great videos! Keep em coming!

[@gregertman6497]

On a high end N/A fuel injected motor I run fuel injectors in the port and also small injectors in the throttle body's just above the throttle blades. Also small injectors run at a higher fuel pressure makes more power most of the time.

[@renwickconolly2839]

Excellent content Thank You!

[@Link-we8so]

I'm still ready for a 5.9 magnum! Also do a comparison between all the throttle body conversion kits out know...

[@3800TURBO]

Ive gained 40hp before moving injectors further from the valve on a turbocharged 6cyl. It definitely helps. Would be a cool vid to show people on a fabbed long runner manifold. Weld in some bungs just after the plenum and some right at the valve then swap between.

[@sorshiaemms5959]

GREAT TESTING RICHARD

[@baby-sharkgto4902]

What if you took the Holley Sniper intake but instead of using a 90mm or 103mm throttle body, put an elbow adapter facing upward and then mounting a carburetor. Lol I'd love to see that just for the visual!

[@lucascb750]

So running staged multiport injection gives the latent charge benefits as carb, as long as secondary location is as high up the intake as you can without adversely affecting distribution.

[@jlfastride1]

Very good video to make this point, This fact is also amplified using methanol or high ethanol amounts.. Then factor in the iat ability of nitrous..And where it is sprayed prior to intake valve location.. OMG now we're talking... Great job sir.. Out of curiosity have you ever tested dart pro 1 230 angle plug heads on 23* sbc stuff with high compression and healthy roller cam???? TIA

[@toefield251]

Great video content thank you sir! It seems wet flow vs. dry flow is the main comparison and I'm glad you touched on charge cooling, I was hoping that was where your were going. It would still be interesting to see the throttle body injection vs. carb though...would it be even? Or would the throttle body make more because of the carb venturis being a restriction.

[@richardholdener1727]

as shown in the video-the twin 650 carbs flowed more than enough for the power level

[@toefield251]

@@richardholdener1727 Yes but it was dry flow vs. wet flow. I'm talking about throttle body injection where the fuel is introduced in the same way. Throttle body having an open hole where the carb has an open hole with a venturi in the middle drawing fuel. Both the same size.

[@maker-matt]

Excellent demonstration. Now I would like to see just how much more power the dual carb setup would make on Ethanol - since we know that alcohol evaporates very fast and would have an even greater charge cooling affect over gas. And then try Methanol...

[@mrcasperjensen]

Very cool video... charge cooling. Would a way to be safe and have charge cooling be port injection with a single injector in the throttle body?..

[@sportsmansparadice42]

So what are your thoughts about having a cool can spliced into the fuel system as close to the engine as possible? Maybe even dry ice in the cool can? With a vent of course.

[@BlàckÐèàth]

On a similar subject but regarding a roots blower instead of tunnel ram. The Blower Shop claims they make more power by placing the injectors in a roots blower case itself vs. on top or below in the intake. Have you ever run one of TBS's injected roots on the dyno before?

[@richardholdener1727]

I have not-where in the case?

[@TheSgltrk]

I wonder if the difference between front air intake and the dual quad dry flow throttle bodies is about airflow direction. With the front 102 mm throttle the air has to turn 90* to enter the intake runners where as the dual quad throttle bodies the air experiences very little directional change. That direction change has to affect air velocity, turbulence and maybe temperature. We used to use velocity stacks to "straighten" the airflow.

[@stephanmarshall8028]

Love when you act all hyped up bro! 👍

[@T1000AX]

one of the best efi vs carb videos

[@lilmichaelcogburn5387]

I still want to see some Holley sniper testing I have been running them for a year or so now and they are awesome!

[@sikryd]

I'm about to install a Weiand Hi-Ram on my 454 '56 Bel Air with a dual Terminator X Stealth system. I can't wait...

[@MrOgre1110]

I was thinking that question Richard lol so thought about another question, what if you jetted down the carbs then evened out the fuel with port injection? Best of both worlds?

[@davidcox1984]

Great test. 2 650's blowthru support big numbers on 5.3?

[@kevintucker3354]

Exactly what I was thinking, they are both great if optimally tuned!

[@douglascrosby6536]

It's not just the charge cooling effect but also the increase in charge density effecting the "Ram Fill" or "inertia-fill" effect. If that column of air/fuel weighs more, it only stands to reason the inertia (momentum) will be different. Take a look at any of the Indy injection systems. There's a lot of different reasons they're using the "shower head" injectors as far upstream as possible.

[@GB-zi6qr]

Hey Rich, have you heard about the Autolite inline four barrel? There are some interesting legends about it. What do you think? Just curious.

[@obbyjep7597]

Really good info and testing! Love it. Wonder if you could drill the hiram top in such a way as the injectors are over tje ports so as to have most of the control over port to port afr and the cooling affect

[@richardholdener1727]

I drew up an intermediate plate with that

[@obbyjep7597]

@@richardholdener1727 that will be neat to see the effect of

[@evancole3620]

How even is the fuel distribution from dual 4 barrels like that? Obviously it doesn’t have the adjustability of port injection but it still seems like it would be even between all the cylinders.

[@antonjimmy5636]

If you look at high power NA rotary circuit builds, they have the primary injector near the rotor housing, and the secondary injector spraying into the bellmouth (like the Honda test?) and they made measurable power increases

[@fortnoxz71]

Interesting... would have liked to see the fuel injection tbi with the same 2 650cfm throttle body equal to the 2 650 carbs... equal-equal..

[@dodgejohnson5819]

When doing tests like this how about showing the vacuum gauge as well to see if the carb or throttle body is big enough?

[@merritts3515]

I think fuel injection really wins when it comes to cold starts, altitude changes. Seasonal changes. But carburetors when tuned properly will always be able to make a little more power just because the fuel will cool down the incoming air. Annular boosters are next level for carbs too.

[@altruismfirst6489]

the like of Claus Schwabb and others on the UN Agenda 2030 dont want carbs but all digital and easy for "THEY" to monitor, steal and control everything digitally. I love analogue, carbs and control of what I do and got my carbs giving better fuel economy on hilly terrain than efi has.

[@mattbirch93]

Always a job well done Richard!

[@chasewilloughby9675]

So in theory, a set of the holly sniper tbis on the high ram lid would push close to the exact same number as the carbs due to charge cooling, with more possible drivability in a street car application

[@richardholdener1727]

maybe