Luchador & Chicken | Rig & Network Walkthrough

[@houdini3d]

The main focus of this new workflow is to ensure a good performance for animators - that based on the biggest feedback we got from studios. As we move out of beta, more friendly rigging tools will follow - more intermediate rigging components to make this an easier experience for riggers - anyone who wants to dive deeper will then be able to build their own rigging components. This video is an example of someone doing that. Part of why this was released in beta is to get more testing/feedback to help determine what components are needed."

[@heytraile]

@houini3d the only thing that's needed is actual rigging masterclass with building a rig like this one from start to finish, preferably doing it in a more manual way so we get how to build our own components and what's going on under the hood. From there I'm sure we will be more comfortable understanding the pre built components. I know there are more friendly rigging tools coming but some of us want to use this thing proper NOW! so help us out a bit. This kind of walkthrough is not very helpful for such a new paradigm shift IMO.

[@heytraile]

It doesn't even need to be a rigging masterclass, it could just be a component building masterclass about building apex components from scratch. The main problem I think why people fail to see the ease of use with Houdini is when it comes to these intermediate learning areas for different parts of the application. After reading the APEX docs (albeit it did mention it would be lacking in in information) but damn I didn't expect it to be that much lacking in information. Houdini seems hard to most people because this kind of walkthrough is poorly done most of the times. What happened to Jeff Lait and Jeff Wagner style masterclasses? where have they gone?

[@houdini3d]

More learning material will be coming. We appreciate that people want to start using it right away - but it is the beginning of a journey for these tools - lots of ground to cover both for learning and for development. @@heytraile

[@KO28JOJO]

​@@heytrailethey already passed the bucket in their response mentioing "for studio" indie users have to wait for another workflow with new tools and components in the future. Thanks for your subscription! Cheers.

[@heytraile]

@@houdini3d I understand some patience is is required, I just hope you guys understand that there are one and two person studios out here that depend on quality learning material. I'm not investing anytime into another DCC, I see the value in Houdini and what sideFX is doing. I look forward to seeing great training material!

[@jzbrothersurgut]

please do the simplest lesson on BlendShape in Apex, from the very beginning and not already on the finished scene, just take a ball and change its geometry by moving the control point, what is so difficult?

[@AngelsNeverFade]

Honestly this looks 100x more complicated than other software

[@junechevalier]

I feel like someone should try and show how this is done from scratch. I'm talking about importing a character and start from there.

[@KO28JOJO]

​​@@junechevalierthey have to make it in 13 mins video to sell this nonsense. It would take them 3 videos, each video one hour length to go with the graph in apex! The result is the same as any other 3D package is offering in the market...maybe less. But hey maybe there is an animator they knew who might be interested in this kind of....i do not what to call it. But yeah they like math....a lot like really a lot!!!

[@heytraile]

@@KO28JOJO I think you're mixing up the animation with the rigging; the animation part is quite nice and easy, it's a single node with access to everything. Rigging has always been a technical process no matter the application but I think this is very powerful stuff! There is no way this video is meant for users who are new, if so then it's a terrible way to show it. This seems more for people well familiar with kinefx and who to tie that in with apex and even then it's still not a very good way to show it IMO. But I hope sideFX has waaaayy better stuff coming out, like actual masterclasses with preferably Jeff Wagner or Jeff Lait talking about the workings of this.

[@gcharb2d]

Professional rigging has always been a pain, this actually looks pretty straightforward, and it's completely procedural!

[@KO28JOJO]

@@heytraile I am not. I am being sarcastic questioning who would be asking for this sort of approch if the result are same with other 3D software ? You might say procedural ! So... We added ctrl to Kinefx and it works. It was procedural too. Something is really missing here that Sidefx themselves cant explain.

[@gcharb2d]

The whole process seems pretty straightforward to me, import your model in separate parts, use KineFX to add a skeleton, use KineFX to skin the different parts using the best method to avoid vertex painting, merge the whole thing together, then use Apex to create the actual rig with blend shapes and graph, no Python needed, and it's all procedural, am I missing something here?

[@heytraile]

The problem for me is that I want a proper start to rigging in the apex environment it self! We already know how about kineFX skeletons. Now I want proper stuff about building apex components and what makes this thing tick. That's it! but it doesn't seem complicated at all just new and unfamiliar. I liked, for example how Jeff Lait introduced vellum, You got it right away and was ready for production. Just do a proper intro and I'm good!

[@gcharb2d]

@@heytraile in her presentation, Esther Trilsch said that they are working on a masterclass for Apex, so you may not have to wait too long for a proper course on the subject!

[@SBaldo8]

Very interesting, looked way easier in the presentation tho 😂

[@dagkjetsa8486]

@KO28JOJO What DCC/tools do you use to create your rigs? And what kind of rigs are they? For film? For games?

[@gcharb2d]

I doubt very much that he will answer your question!

[@KO28JOJO]

I use Kinefx (=... I am serious. Now I am considering something else. The retarget of mocap in Houdini is really good. Not sure why they moved with this thing.

[@KO28JOJO]

@@gcharb2d Ahh...did I bother you that much ?! I do not like you responding on my behalf! and pretty sure I did not throw a bone at your kennel.

[@fastlearner292]

​@@KO28JOJOstill NO answer to the real question lol, but I guess we all know the answer by now

[@KO28JOJO]

@fastlearner292 well... i thought i said Kinefx..chill detective! Detective 🕵️‍♂️

[@danielshamota]

This actually looks pretty straightforward and quite performant to me. Gotta see how procedural it stays compared to our KineFX workflow, but they seem to work well together. What I actually don't understand is why in this file when more APEX components are added, begins a real mess in viewport of the skeleton flattened hugely on the floor? Is it a bug or supposed to be like that? It was mentioned that with every APEX component we can go to animate state, but obviously it should be done when the skeleton is in place.

[@Kreuzrippengewoelbe]

Have thanks.

[@lenxie4501]

the reason I use vex most of the time instead of vops, is because vops can get really messy when lots of for loops involved, when I see the blendshape component script...oh man.. I would like shift all my character work into apex, I love the concept, but, for basic functionalities, pls don't over complicate it. and in the video, you guys enjoy to see the auto generated graph hell, you should hide those terrible graghs as much as possible, they are not for human, no one can breath while watching them.

[@tomasaldazabal219]

With this workflow can you only do animations inside houdini? Or is it compatible with maya?

[@houdini3d]

These tools are for rigging and animating in Houdini.

[@anzaklaynimation]

I couldn't recognize even a single bit of this video. Yup, Houdini is the hardest 3d program among all the others. I'm a blender user and blender looks a child in front of Houdini.

[@gcharb2d]

He uses KineFX to add the armature and bind the bones to the models, then he uses the new Apex auto-rig tool to create the rig on top of it all! Think of the whole process as something like the auto-rig pro add-on for Blender, but on steroid, no vertex painting (if done right), not limited to humanoids, 100% procedural, and it comes free with Houdini!

[@superfluffypunch]

Yeah master blender's geometry nodes first then move onto houdini.

[@lenxie4501]

@@superfluffypunch why not try houdini first, I tried 12 years ago ,failed , then 10 years ago, start using it for vfx, but nothing else, then, one year ago, I moved my entire workflow into Houdini, it's a wonderful journey, I'm not saying it takes decades to master, it's a cg dream tool, and I'm not saying quiting any tool you used before, I still use max along with other small tools, but Houdini has the best vfx,procedual , cfx,now character tools , imo , there is no other choice.

[@KO28JOJO]

10:32 @Houdini are you guys for real ? Do you know an animator/rigger who asked for this, to set up this complicated set up (Outside your circle) ? All of this work and graph setup and it is still in beta...even though too many people were asking for stright forward Kinefx rigging and animation setup....you gave them Apex for what ? Do you evaluate your added value compared to the competition ? What do you do, if you are not reading feedback from clients who asked for this nonsense and adding another peak to the learning curve ?

[@junechevalier]

Harder process, same result with the other softwares

[@gcharb2d]

How's is this complicated? See my comment, it is actually pretty simple for a pro level rig!

[@KO28JOJO]

​@gcharb2d congrats for building up the first successful case study that Sidefx Houdini did not even have or considered before they started this apex thing. It is stright forward in beta for you...I can only congrat you for passing the new curve! However, it is the same result and even better in other software with much much easier approach! Keep rocking!

[@gcharb2d]

@@KO28JOJO Okay then, show Us how it's done in other software, because rigging really sucks in Blender, and Maya is pretty good at it, but certainly not easier than this, so I wonder! BTW, sarcasm is for the weak-minded, just saying! ;)

[@rickvdvulkaan]

"you gave them Apex for what ?" Apex is the part which makes it artist-friendly to animate. Creating the skeleton can still be very complex, or very simple. that's up to you. And houdini makes it possible for both, while keeping everything procedural. It feels like you have not even tried this new approach.

[@noc2_art]

The apex graph on a finished rig looks unbelievably expansive and tremendously complex and I really don’t believe that any rigger would ever even want to dive into it to do anything if he/she ever needed to revise or even inspect anything. If the graph adapts to changes made to the rig interactively, one can’t help but ask why is it there in the first place? Just for show? I’m probably missing a lot here and am hoping to be able to wrap my head around this system but my initial impression is that it’s just too danged convoluted, or at least that’s how it’s been presented thus far… I’m just hoping that it will turn out to provide the rigger with true efficiency because as of now, it looks to be a system that overcomplicates rigging process as it is…

[@maxrose8845]

They provide prebuilt modular components - similar to Mgear in Maya - while giving the more technically savvy among us complete freedom to create their own tools. That’s what the apex graph is for, it’s a visual coding environement specific for rigging in Houdini. If you want a basic rig, using the provided auto rig components will have you up and running in no time

[@gcharb2d]

It's a modular auto-rig system, I was able to rig the Fur Dude without much problem, and the animation interface is pretty slick and easy to use, I suggest you wait for the masterclass that was announced in the presentation, it should answer most if not all of your questions!

[@Mikadoo09]

The rigging system is in the end a rigging frame work. We depending on workflow and task and complexity of the pipeline you will investigate the resulting graph more or less. We are aware that we need more filter option in the graph ui to focus during a graph analysis on the current nodes of interest but if you for example build your own custom component, you need to make sure that your resulting graph is connected up properly. If you however rather working with prebuild components you might not need to check the graph at all and you can focus on the result in the viewport and have a much more simplified perspective.

[@juhanikarlsson160]

It's there to replace scene graph that is hard to thread and optimize (well not really but for examples Mayas scene graph is). It allows it to be superior in terms of performance vs traditional rigging methods. The idea of having 'locators' for interactions is dated and should be replaced with gizmos and data oriented approaches and APEX is going that direction. Why have item living on graph all the time if it's needed only once in a while?

[@Deviner75]

I'll dive into it :L