Melisandre, Nissa Nissa, the Night's Watch - A Song of Ice and Fire Mythology

Melisandre is one of the most important Nissa Nissa parallel characters, and tells us a lot about Nissa Nissa! Mel is very preoccupied with all things related to Azor Ahai, Lightbringer, and waking dragons, as we all know, which makes sense for a Nissa Nissa parallel... but Mel has this entire weirwood and burning stag man line of symbolism also, and that too is about Nissa Nissa! More specifically, it's about the creation of the Night's Watch! I'll explain here with some of the coolest symbolism George R. R. Martin has created!
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[@costrodrock]

These streams are like a class on symbolism and literary analysis, but fun. Thank you Lightbringer, for lighting the way for future readings.

[@MrHws5mp]

Theory about Mel that struck me the other day. I've been reading Dance and Fire And Blood at the same time, and I happened to read the Melisandre POV chapter just after reading about Princess Aerea's horrific death. What struck me is that there are parallels between the language used to describe the two. Both Mel and Aerea are described as unnaturally hot on the outside & "seared" or "cooking" from within. Aerea brings forth (presumably) dragon-related "worms", whilst Mel has dragon-like black & smoking blood on her thigh. Aerea's skin is described as blackening like 'pork crackling' while Victarion's arm, cured with the same R'hllorist magic that Mel uses, is described exactly the same way. It's been speculated that in the books, Mel's final form (sans glamour) will be a 'hot coals' being rather than the old crone seen in the TV show. So what occures to me is this: what if Mel, & other top-tier priests/priestesses of R'hllor have an ACTUAL "fire-wyrm" similar to Aerea's inside them, but controlled via magic and/or a psychic bond like that between dragon & rider? Presumably, Aerea encountered them in the wild, knowing nothing about them, and so was infected and killed by them. What if the Red Temple, by contrast, has been secretly exploiting them, as a continuation of Valerian/Asshai'i blood magic, to give their high priests unnatural and impressive powers? We know that R'hllorist priests, including Mel, get sent to Asshai. Maybe this is why: to learn how to 'bond' with a wyrm & control it without dying. This would make a Red Priest with a wyrm effectively a symbiotic being, and that made me immediately think of the Trill from Star Trek, and Jadzia Dax from DS9. So is it credible to suggest that GRRM was influenced by the Trill/Jadzia when he conceived of Melisandre? Well, here's three pieces of circumstantial evidence: 1. If you look up a picture of the Trill symbionts, they're wriggly white tadpoles with a rudimentary face and little flippers. This ties in fairly well with Septon Barth's description of Aerea's parasites as, "Worms without faces... snakes with hands..." 2. Trill in DS9 have mottled patterns of dark spots on their faces and bodies, while in the POV chapter it says of Mel, "Shimmers of heat traced patterns on her skin..." 3. Mel first appeared in A Clash Of Kings, published in 1998. In 1997, right in the middle of when GRRM must have been writing it, DS9 aired episode 7 of season 6. In this episode, Jadzia got married to Worf, _in a bright red medieval-style dress_ , with a _ruby_ at the throat. Look up a picture of this outfit and it's very hard for any ASOIAF fan _not_ to be reminded of Melisandre. There are plenty of other indications that Valerian blood magic involved human/animal hybrids, and parasitic/symbiotic combinations would be a natural variation on that.

[@MugenHeadNinja]

This is actually great, I gotta keep this theory in mind for when TWoW comes out, hopefully we'll see whether you're right or wrong soon enough.

[@DavidLightbringer]

Hey so I saw you post this on Twitter but was too busy to reply and forgot to circle back. So. People have previously proposed that somehow there are wyrms in Victarion’s arm for similar reasons, a theory which never made sense to me because where would the wyrm come from? And I tend to think these common descriptions apply to fire magic usage of all types - it’s always transforming the user. However. Your theory is pretty interesting. It makes logical sense, it’s extra fucked up and gnarly, (which is how GRRM likes it), and it’s based on literature Martin has read

[@DavidLightbringer]

One of the problems here is that Aerea is cooked by the wyrms and killed as they grow larger. Perhaps there’s a more controlled version of the process? But you also have to remember that Martin’s parallels often refer to deep symbolic archetypes - Aerea is the model of a moon cracking open to north fiery dragons. What I’m interested in is the general principle of R’hllorists being to modify physiology

[@BudravenOG]

Funny I was thinking halfway through reading your comment "man that sounds like Jadzia Dax" and the got to that part.

[@MrHws5mp]

@@DavidLightbringer That's okay: I assumed that your Twitter was busy and you missed it, but then I saw this livestream and thought it'd be a good place to air the theory.

[@generational6488]

I am thankful u are still going to do live streams that's a big reason why I watch

[@Darksun93]

I do like watching these streams on the rewatch the way they are. Without editing. That's just me.

[@jackbond4358]

Excellent CAKE reference

[@DavidLightbringer]

Always

[@hollyhanna78]

I’ve always loved your videos….I love book discussions with people who delve crazy deep into the world these incredible writers bring to us…. But holy shit, reading rhaegar! The joy your reading rhaegar intro brings me deserves more than this comment can provide. Thanks for sharing these with the world

[@fluencer]

It's been a while I had stopped watching because of real life, now I am back at it, always love your symbolism content

[@DavidLightbringer]

glad to have you back from that nasty real life stuff!!

[@nadiasouthiere7908]

LML, thanks for sharing that awesome stream🙏👌✌🙋‍♀️

[@georgeouthwaite]

Hi David, have you ever looked into yew trees at all? I think you're right that a lot of the weirwoods symbolism is drawn from the ash but to me their mundane functions seem to been drawn partly from yews. Immortal trees that are planted over grave yards, they were very important to the older religion and it's likely that the sites of a lot of European churchyards were built on or near significant yew sites. There are yews here in churchyards that probably predate christianity and there's even a yew in Wales that bleeds red sap. They were also used to make longbows.

[@DavidLightbringer]

Yes you know I came across some of that folklore one time while researching. I should go back to it. It’s definitely not just Yggy that George is drawing from

[@bullwerethepurple9042]

There have been suggestions that Yggdrasil was actually a yew, as some of the descriptions in Snorri’s writings fit better, and the rune for yew and ash are similar, and could have been mixed up at some point. Especially since Snorri wrote his texts long after runes were used in earnest. I can’t remember the references though, but I know we’ve chatted about it in LML’s livestreams once upon a time.

[@georgeouthwaite]

@@bullwerethepurple9042 I'm actually convinced that Yggdrasil would have yew because it just makes more sense culturally and biologically, but I definitely think that George has drawn heavily on the ash tree interpretation for the weirwoods, it fits so well with the whole trees and dragons magic thing

[@michaeltavizon8333]

so good!

[@permiebird937]

Glad to catch the stream today!

[@melissamoore5223]

I usually am working when you go live and that is a bummer for me. I am however glad to watch all the replays and proudly support your channel. Your my favorite

[@DavidLightbringer]

Thank you Melissa! I’ll try to mix up the times a bit. That will happen anyway with some of the discussions I plan to tape only in front of squishers and patrons to be edited for the main channel

[@StormbornDragon]

you’re in a Crusader Chris video talking about bloodraven, he used your clip talking about if azor ahai is the villain, wasn’t expecting to see you there haha

[@teresefox6418]

Always glad to catch the stream. You've spoiled me with all your knowledge on these topics. You give such detailed explanation that it's hard to dispute. I don't watch my other channels because they are so far off from the truth on many things.

[@raventhecraven1306]

David gives me the vibe of a professor who would give an entire lecture to his class while muted. Only difference is that people actually want to hear what he has to say.

[@cityslacker6221]

I loved reading the Weirwood Compendium on the old blog. I love where those ideas have lead you. It’s been fun.

[@ratgirl34]

I grin so hard every time I hear the Reading Rhaegar tune. Every time someone mention’s Melissandre’s heart shaped face I immediately think of The Queen of Hearts from Alice in Wonderland. ‘Off with their heads!’ ‘Likes’ to burn people. $5 monopoly dollars says Arya kills Mel.

[@DavidLightbringer]

That’s an interesting comparison, the Queen of Hearts

[@alpheuswoodley8435]

Great job

[@c.w.8200]

I've imagined ash trees completely wrong all this time, I think my mom consistently misidentified willow as "mountain ash" and I learned it from her, wth.

[@DavidLightbringer]

Willows are their own thing for sure, they have very interesting mythology as well. The wife of Hugo’s Hill the sandal was a willow woman. There are a few

[@bullwerethepurple9042]

And mountain ash isn’t actually an ash, but rowan - it’s a mess 🥰

[@SilverScale.]

I'm glad the Sunday streams will still be on, and I'm sorry I missed this one, thought it was slated for Sunday. Whoops! Well, looking forward to whatever you end up doing, and the replay is always nice as well.

[@lucashunt4172]

Another awesome stream. Just caught an older one where you mentioned getting into Roman mythology and I thought “read the Apollodorus first.” Glad you led with Ouranos.

[@GreyWasteTim]

When the moon hits your eye like Azor Ahai, that's R'hllor, aye?

[@DavidLightbringer]

be honest Tim, how long did you work on that

[@GreyWasteTim]

@@DavidLightbringer I got to bed around 4 or 5

[@noahh2338]

Lol..great one Tim..comedy dynamo😄

[@billberndtson]

Great stream, David. 🙂

[@SmoteMyRuin]

Beauty Friday stream LmL. Thanks for everything as always 💚🤘🐉🔥

[@almab6875]

Yes! New LML video!

[@therunningman_]

Another fantastic live stream!

[@michaeltavizon8333]

Rewatch binge 🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉

[@GiordanoBruno42]

If Nissa Nissa is a Weirwood, then could the quenching of the sword in her blood actually mean that a sword must be quenched with Weirwood sap? I believe that Ice will become lightbringer. Having sacrificed his honour and life for the love of his children, Ned dies to his own blade. This blade is reformed into Oathkeeper and Widow's Wail. The Qohoric smith could not explain the new blades' red colouring. Eventually both Jaime and Brienne will be forced to make sacrifices with their blades. After this stage, perhaps all that remains is for the two swords to be melted down in dragonfire, reforged and quenched with Weirwood sap? I am obsessed with the idea that one of the many meanings of "a song of ice and fire", could be that the sword called ice becomes a fiery blade.

[@DavidLightbringer]

yes, Something like that will happen. I really have my eye on Oathkeeper. ice is already a symbol of ice and fire though, because it is a dragon sword forged in fire which is named ice. It’s just like the obsidian weapons, which are frozen fire. Also black, also dragon associated, but also somehow frozen or icy

[@andrewbahlman7768]

Great stream man holy hell this shits crazy praise Garth

[@mikkelhkkerup7934]

Could Coldhands be the man, Bran sees being sacrificed in front of the Winterfell Weirwood in his final vision in A Dance with Dragons? When asked by his identity in one of Brans earlier chapters, Coldhands answers (parafrasing from my memory), “I am your monster, Brandon Stark”. During the sacrifice vision by Bran: “Brandon could taste the blood in his mouth”. Coldhands appears to have a slit throat, and as far I can remember, the man being sacrificed in front of the Winterfell Weirwood is also having his throat slit. The real question then becomes: Which Brandon Stark during history are we talking about?

[@Henbot]

I do get you point about not thinking of moral rules with the power of Rhllor. Though when you look at immortality in ASOIAF it seems more like people are picked to be made immortal. Cat wasn’t picked by Rhllor but was picked by Beric. So it makes me more think that Cat is a clue into the corpse Queen via showing what happens when you put immortality power into a person not chosen.

[@DavidLightbringer]

I follow you

[@DavidLightbringer]

The abomination vibes are heavy for sure

[@Mink-yu8nu]

Hey! Wait! Mel's got a new complaint.

[@cityslacker6221]

…forever in debt to Azhor Ahai

[@cormonterosa4190]

Got stuck on that what if R'hollor is like Hodor. Maybe it can be "Release the Lord/Release your Lord".

[@louiscassis3426]

Had a wild thought. Maybe the men of the Night’s Watch are the sacrifice to the Others. Sent to the wall till death. And southerners have been neglecting the pact by forgetting to send more to the wall. They used to send enough to garrison all the castles but now only three are used. A little off topic but…..

[@AlohaMaesterHand]

Synchronicity is always spinning at the vortex at The Inn of the Crossroads . . . .

[@b0baf00t8]

He's going the distance. He's showing the tree. He's all alone (all alone) all alone in the green sea.

[@milkmilk2328]

Praise Garth, Good Symbol Amplification, and Constellating.

[@natedavis1005]

Hey Lightbringer, I wanted some clarification on the timeline in regards to Nissa Nissa/Night’s Queen. Now your proposed theory is that Azhor Ahai sacrifices NN triggering the meteor shower that causes the Long Night. When does the NQ come into picture? If she helped create the Other’s then she would exist after NN correct?

[@DavidLightbringer]

Well it’s hard to say exactly, but it seems like NQ comes out of the wwnet or the north near the beginning of the LN. She’s probably Nissa Nissa reborn.

[@casey9439]

I'm Still voting for Jon and Cat for Cutest Undead Endgame Couple.

[@quintanillapeinture127]

Hi !! I just found a wiki page talking about the myth of the king Κανδαύλης ('candaule') which was the last king of the heraclide dinasty , he used to brag to his courtisans about how his wife was the most beautiful, until one day he forced Gyges, the captain of his garde, to attest that by watching the king's wife naked - Gyges first refused, but Candaule insisted, so he did it - he got spotted by the Queen, which thought it was all a plan of her husband to dishonour her. So she ordered Gyges to kill the King and mary her, to restore her dignity - and one of the wife's name was Nyssia. It does not seem much related but I had to mention it for the homonimy

[@quintanillapeinture127]

The queen silently swore revenge for her shame. Next day, she summoned Gyges to her chamber. Gyges thought it was a routine request, but she confronted him immediately and presented him with two choices. One was to kill Candaules and seize the throne with Nyssia as his wife. The second was to be executed immediately by her trusted servants. Gyges pleaded with her to relent but she would not. He decided to take the first course of action and assassinate the king. The plan was that he should hide in the royal bedroom as before but this time from the king. After Candaules fell asleep, Gyges crept forward and stabbed him to death.[10] Gyges married the queen as she had insisted but many Lydians did not at first accept him as their ruler. In order to prevent a civil war, Gyges offered to have his position confirmed or refused by the Delphic Oracle. He agreed that he would restore the throne to the Heracleidae if the Oracle declared against him. The Oracle supported him and his dynasty was established. The Priestess of the Shrine did add, however, that the Heraclids would have their revenge on Gyges in the fifth generation of the Mermnadae Wiki/candaules

[@thehalfmanTL]

Hes going the distance, Hes running the stream.. Wizard on a throne (on a throne) in the roots of a weirwood tree..

[@motorcitymangababe]

Part of me wonders, what with all the importance of siblings in these books, if the implications of the Azor ahai/ nights king isn't mirrored by Nissa Nissa/ and the Corpse Queen. To me, Nissa Nissa reminds me of Sansa, and Corpse Queen of Arya and well... Can you imagine if Arya found out her sister was sacrificed by some asshole for personal gain? I can absolutely see her hunting the guy down, seducing him, and killing his ass/ turning him into a wight and raising an army with her sister's stolen soul. Not entirely in line with the current theories on this channel, but the idea just popped into my head

[@brettstalling2269]

yes sirrr

[@magnusnilsson1962]

Rythm, rythm, rythm.

[@AshtheGreenMan]

Garth be praised

[@paperlionkid1787]

This is for the algorithm.

[@jewelcoutcher1059]

is it sad that i'm looking forward to the release of Martin new book mostly because i wanna see what you'll say about it more than i want to read it?

[@spartan1337la]

David...i know you're a bass head, you NEED to watch the music video "Noisia - Could This Be" it features a mushroom cloud turning into a tree...i mean...could it be any more on the nose.

[@insightsman196]

Sad the show didn't have the Isle of Faces and Howlen Reed sorry if I spelled his name wrong, I think both will have larger roles in the books, part of me thinks more children are hiding there, with the green men that guard it, I think Lord Reed may have already connected to the weird wood on the Isle or has went there now, as a place of power, and the palace the pact between the first men and the children mayhaps, I think Bloodraven used search so to speak on the weird net for the next Green seer to take his place, this effected many with skin changer/ green seer blood, with in their dreams, driving some crazy, and others reading the dreams wrong, but for Bran and Reeds, Mel is the daughter of Bloodraven and the sea star, and that's one reason her magic is powerful like the shadow babies, she has Kings blood, and it makes more sense, she may have been getting messages for the weird net and miss read them, , I know getting tin foil hat on lol,

[@insightsman196]

One more thing I am not sure the children of the forest want to help man, they have realized or for seen through the weird net, that they would lose an all out war, they are to few as it was, by this point, so they went underground and then through the blood of green seers and skin changers , they would one day return, use these mix blood men to destroy them self, and use man to fight the others, once the wars are done they come out of hiding and can be reborn, or that was the plan when they went underground, but now they fear the others more, and need man's help , I just don't think the children of the forest are being up front, they are hiding something , unless it's likes Tolkien's Elven folk how they saw it was their time to go west and leave middle earth to men, I can see that to, but before they go, they must take care of a threat they created

[@MG-rf5vp]

Hi Always excited to learn so much through your videos. Can you explain in your next video of shy maids if there is symbolism of Tyrion as a dragon person on the shy maid and the meaning if Ashara is possibly on this boat.

[@DavidLightbringer]

I have that scene broken down, yeah, but I don’t see how it would have anything to do with Ashara Dayne

[@DavidLightbringer]

Who is not Lenore

[@BudravenOG]

I can't find the right moon media channel. You got a link, lml?

[@paperlionkid1787]

This is also for the algorithm.

[@Slechy_Lesh]

9:28 What exactly did Azor Ahai do

[@devoleno]

I'm on discord, I'm on Instagram, Facebook and KZbin notifications and I still missed this. :(

[@DriftwoodLot]

When you said Mel might end up having sex with undead John, the first thing I thought of was Isis using Osiris‘s body, in order to give birth to Horus. PS I am using speak text or talk text whatever it’s called .

[@DavidLightbringer]

no that’s 100% what the parallel would be. and it would make a lot of sense.

[@DriftwoodLot]

@@DavidLightbringer wouldn’t that imply that Jon would be the new “Solar” king? I’m pretty sure that’s what Horus was.

[@DriftwoodLot]

Yeah, I looked it up. Horus was a sun god. If this was to play out the way you stated, Jon would step into the roll of Horus in this reenactment and that gives weight to your theory about Jon being powered by R’hllor. Apparently Horus is not only a sun god but the lord of the sky, containing both the sun and the moon. You stated that Nissa Nissa has moon association, thus Nights Queen has moon association. Well if Horus/Jon contains both the sun and the moon, then he may be risen by the walkers then awakened by R’hillor or perhaps the other way around. You would know the details better than I.

[@brianland2357]

Rohanne Webber= Rowan tree

[@DavidLightbringer]

YES! Absolutely! She’s got the absolutely best system. She rules over the watery canals and the weir (the dam). They’re like a web, don’t ya know!

[@just_a_lil_guy]

🌬🌪💫

[@chrismcfadden6934]

Please turn up the sound on your videos

[@DavidLightbringer]

they're cranked man it's on your end

[@sinthoras1917]

Back to my most watched channel you go