Luther and Calvin on Predestination

[@roylange2248]

This is a treasure trove of Biblical Teaching. Thank God for how God has lavished great teaching upon us. So few Christians appreciate what we have been given.

[@billcrowell5096]

OUTSTANDING lecture on this topic. Indeed, one of the most balanced that I have ever heard. Having been from pillar to post in the 1970s pentecostal and charismatic movements, I am now seeking the stability of reformed theology without the emotionalism of the previous experience.

[@ORaddlyispissedoff]

Thank you so much for this, I appreciate the thoughtfulness of presenting it as unbiased as you did. This channel is an oasis

[@mikewilliams6025]

I find Luther's discussion on the subject far more nuanced and precipitated as a correction to Catholicism. Calvin, on the other hand, is more interested in the topic alone. Because of that, I would say their not only the way they speak of the predestination, but their very definitions of it, are vastly different. And that is the real reasons Lutherans today say they don't believe what Calvinists believe - because in reality, they never have.

[@galenstevenson918]

God moved first when he gave his only begotten Son and sent the Apostles out with the Gospel.

[@EagleTV7]

Amazing content, Dr. Reeves. You are an excellent communicator. What a pleasure to listen to these lectures.

[@2010sjay]

Excellent lecture, I only just recently learned that Luther also taught predestination. thank you!

[@RyanReevesM]

+2010sjay // Yeah I find that people start with the assumption that Reformed or Calvinist people only teach predestination. Then they get a bit more exposure to the fact that others taught it. Then they realize that not all discussions of predestination are the same, so this lecture sort of conveys all 3 of these points. (At least that's the goal!) :)

[@BombshellBibleProphecies]

History repeats Itself, Even so, Theological Debates on Predestination vs Freewill repeatedly, repeatedly, repeatedly repeat, i repeat, repeat itself! Augustine vs Pelagius in the 5th Century. Luther vs Erasmus in the 16th Century. Calvin (Reformed) vs Arminius (Remostranced) in the 17th Century. Whitefield vs Wesley in the 18th Century. Calvinists vs Arminians today on KZbin.... I wonder if we will continue to debate it forever in eternity?

[@jasonc0065]

And now the Lordship Salvation vs Free Grace debate today is something else.

[@2010sjay]

Brilliant teaching Dr. Reeves, helped a lot in my understanding of election.

[@ohbrother8530]

you're an excellent teacher along with John gerstner , RC Sproul , and Martyn Lloyd Jones.

[@kirbyanniefrancis4815]

Sooooo nice to have nuanced conversation on these issues.

[@ohbrother8530]

Actually I was reading or listening to someone read Calvin and He says we should be careful not to dwell on the secret decrees of God too much.

[@lochricolife2777]

I may have to watch this one a few times ...😳

[@pastorkcjones]

Minor point: I grew up in a Methodist church and never heard Wesley's name pronounced as "Wezley."

[@RenatIlyasov]

So, is it safe to say that for Luther and his followers, Predestination is a subordinate and explanatory footnote on Justification, but beyond the scope of Justification it has little place in Christian theology and life of a Christian? Whereas the Reformed / Biblical view of Predestination is that it is a God-centered, God-glorifying doctrine, clearly revealed in the Bible, 'lest any man should boast [against it]'.

[@eensrds]

Well done and historically interesting. I continue to read Luther, Calvin, Augustine, and much more, but when it comes to pre-destination I'm not really seeing how it can be anything other than "full-stop." Did an all-knowing and all-powerful God know that I would write these exact words at this instant in time? If all-knowing means what it means of course He did. Did he know from before the foundation of the world who would be reading this and exactly how they would respond? Obviously. Did he know .....? No need to finish or answer the question since the answer can only be "yes." As a young child I had a friend who used to kid around by pointing at a pebble or twig and say: "I wonder why God decided to put it here instead of over there?" On the other hand, I can't do any better when it comes to understanding "free-will."

[@evanu6579]

eensrds You should do fine with not understanding free will if you continue to read Calvin and Luther, and just avoid reading the bible at all costs.

[@ericcollins6231]

+Ryan Reeves, Just discovered your channel a few hours ago, and have made it through a few videos. Firstly thank you for all content! But within this video I have a question. You say the issue of predestination is a question of who moved first. But I'm not sure if that is accurate. It seems to me that the question of predestination always boils down to synergism vs. monergism. But both the synergist and monergist agree that God moves first. However they disagree on how many energies participate in the salvitic process. By forming the question as who moves first would to effectual make all orthodox Christians affirm predestination, even synergists.

[@RyanReevesM]

+Eric Collins // Hey man. Yeah I would say it's more of how I am introducing the subject to relatively new students (it's a survey course). Instead of beginning with complexity I want to start with the basics, and in this case the basics are about moving first. In a way monergism and synergism can be understood in this light, but not entirely. But the typical student I find believe the subject begins with abstract philosophical categories and not a simple biblical question, so I am working against that. I always say that at some point a car engine works because 'gas explodes and the wheels turn'. Obviously this is a weak explanation overall, but it helps new folks to the subject get the basics. The goal would be that they discussion would be expanded on this fundamental orientation, though. But that's for a later lecture/class! :)

[@anti-nazarene523]

Phd. student Richard Allinger reinforces the need for the continuation of the Reformation which started five centuries ago for the following six reasons cited in his book "The Reformation Cannot Be Over !": i. God speaks today. ii. Theologians make mistakes. iii. New issues require new thinking. iv. Scriptures must have priority over confessions. v. The right of private judgment. vi. Above all, it is important that we engage in the process of (semper reformanda) "always reforming" in the proper spirit and manner.

[@rodneybrown6020]

Dr. Reeves...thank you for taking time to make these videos on church history...they are very well done! Is there an outline that gives the order which they should follow?

[@athena2483]

I'm a Catholic but I very much like Determinism/Predestination, it makes sense to me.

[@bobpolo2964]

But how does being catholic make any sense, biblically speaking?

[@athena2483]

Uhhh what?

[@evanu6579]

Marcus Aurelius Determinism is a doctrine of the devil. Stay clear away!! God bless

[@athena2483]

Compatibilism isnt

[@InTheSpirit12]

Love your videos. Keep up the good work my friend.

[@RyanReevesM]

InTheSpirit12 // Thanks! Glad you enjoyed it. :)

[@simstephen]

Here is my struggle. God saves whom he saves, and he passes over whom he passes over. What makes that good? How is that benevolence?

[@lorenzoa.7752]

Hi dr. Reeves, I really appreciate your videos. Regarding this one, I have a comment to make: according to your description of arminianism, you seem to imply that it teaches that we move and God simply responds; besides, you imply that predestination doesn't exist in arminian theology. I find both points untrue, according to my reading of arminian authors and especially Arminian Theology by Roger Olson. It seems to me that in (classical) arminianism no one denies that God took the first step in salvation (prevenient grace etc.), nor deny predestination (although differently portrayed; veery differently!). I'm no expert, so I might be wrong, but it seems to me that decision theology which is rampant today is a new form of semi-pelagianism (wether its proponents recognize it or not) and has nothing to do with Arminianism. What do you think? Thanks for reading. God bless!

[@de629]

I read Olson's book a while back and don't remember any embrace of predestination (not saying your wrong, I just don't remember and can find the book) can you give me some quotes. You are correct though that in classical Arminianism God does make the first move, but he does it for everybody and it is still our will that determines our salvation and not God's.

[@lorenzoa.7752]

Richard Moore Olson's book is structured in multiple chapters, each one about a myth or misconception regarding arminianism. In chapter 8 Olson contradicts the common claim by which arminians "don't believe in predestination". This is the initial summary of the the chapter: "Predestination is a biblical concept that classical Arminians accept, though they interpret it differently than Calvinists. Predestination is God’s sovereign decree to elect believers in Jesus Christ, and it includes God’s foreknowledge of those believers’ faith." He then goes on describing in detail the view about predestination embraced by many influent arminian theologians from Arminius (Olson is a historical theologian). So in this chapter you will find all the typical explanations of predestination embraced by noncalvinist, such as: individual election based on foreseen faith (the classical one), election viewed primarily in corporate terms(God unconditionally chose to have a people for Himself, but individually it is conditioned by personal acceptance), barthian interpretation (Christ is the elect one, thus all who are in Christ) etc. Besides, Olson expounds the arminian view of faith: it is not a human achievement, but a gift; through previenent grace, the sinners' eyes can be opened and only then he can embrace christ. The only difference is that for arminians this gift is resistible. Ther is so much more to say and quote, Olson did an excellent job in expounding all the concepts that i tried to list (and many more). I Hope it helps. By the way, you are right in affirming that in arminianism man's acceptance has a decisive role; I think this is a weak point, although Scripture seems to affirm it (arminian's opinion!). I think calvinism has a similar problem regarding individual responsibility: how can a person be blamed for not accepting Christ, since he was determined to be damned and the atonement was not intended for him? Arminius put it this way: "[...] it imputes hypocrisy to God, as if, in His exhortation to faith addressed to such [i.e., the reprobate], He requires them to believe in Christ, whom, however, He has not set forth as a Savior to them." For me it's a pleasure to ponder on this theological matters, but I obviously consider both sides expressions of orthodox faith. Be blessed!

[@de629]

You are correct, you refreshed my memory concerning Olson's discussion of predestination. I also agree with you that both classical Arminianism and Calvinism are orthodox.. And Olson is also correct in saying much of what we call Arminianism today is not Classical Arminianism,but in fact is Semi-Palaginism

[@yanadiivory]

Right, prevenient grace for all possible human, but made effective by human response.

[@mrbobspongeful]

Thanks for the upload. I was really looking forward to this one.

[@RyanReevesM]

Bob Sponge // Thanks, Bob! This one was fun to make - as much fun as any others I've made for this Playlist.

[@acortes7771]

Ryan Reeves I enjoyed this one as well Professor! :-) Roman Catholics are in agreement, as clearly stated in John 6:43-45 "43 Jesus answered and said to them, "Do not grumble among yourselves. 44"No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day. 45"It is written in the prophets, 'AND THEY SHALL ALL BE TAUGHT OF GOD.' Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father, comes to Me.…" Also some are elected and some are re-probated.

[@CypherOzzie]

God gives us an ear to hear, but we still can reject Him. Sadly many do reject the Gospel.

[@wtom04]

John Calvin did not get his version of "predestination/election" from the Bible, but he borrowed it from his idol, Augustine. His version of it is identical to Augustine's perversion of it. 1) ....."salvation is freely offered to some while others are barred from access to it." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion - Book 3, Chapter 21, Paragraph 5. 2) "We call predestination God's eternal decree, by which he compacted with himself what he willed to become of each man. For all are not created in equal condition; rather, ETERNAL LIFE IS FORE-ORDAINED FOR SOME, ETERNAL DAMNATION FOR OTHERS." - John Calvin - Institutes of the Christian Religion - Book 3, Chapter 21, Paragraph 5. 3) ..."we say that God once established by his eternal and unchangeable plan those whom he long before determined once for all to receive into SALVATION, and those whom, on the other hand, he would devote to DESTRUCTION...he has barred the door of life to those whom he has given over to damnation." - John Calvin - Institutes of the Christian Religion, Book 3, Chapter 21, Paragraph 7. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "That owing to one man all pass into condemnation who are born of Adam unless they are born again in Christ, even as He has appointed them to be regenerated, before they die in the body, whom He PREDESTINATED TO EVERLASTING LIFE, as the most merciful bestower of grace; while to those whom He HAS PREDESTINATED TO ETERNAL DEATH, He is also the most righteous awarder of punishment not only on account of the sins which they add in the indulgence of their own will, but also because of their original sin, even if, as in the case of infants, they add nothing thereto. Now this is my definite view on that question, so that the hidden things of God may keep their secret, without impairing my own faith." - Augustine, City of God, On the Soul and its Origin, 4.16. It appears that Calvin's definition and Augustine's definition of "predestination/election" is identical to Islam's belief in FATALISM and also identical to Stoicism's belief in DETERMINISM. Satan has packaged the same thing under different names - "Predestination/Election", "Foreordination", "Fatalism", and "Determinism."

[@johnjohns3888]

What a great series!! Thanks.

[@albertkwarteng3505]

Wooow i am learning alot. Thanks sir

[@CypherOzzie]

Calvinist ... #SomeLivesMatter :)

[@RyanReevesM]

:)

[@Saratogan]

Elect according to the foreknowledge of God (1 Peter 1:2). Predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son (Romans 8:28). They are related but are not the same thing .

[@shadow33abram]

Great content!

[@paulwilfridhunt]

As believers in Jesus Christ we are not condemned or disallowed from thinking and speculating. Predestination. That's an interesting subject mainly because we are not absolutely sure what it is or what it means. But isn't it odd or unusual how we all seem to have particular preferences. Some might be musicians in orchestras. Others might be teachers. Others builders and so on, all because of some aptitude to be able to function much more usefully in one field than another. How did this happen? Could it be that we were predestined to be what we are? If so then why? And how did all that come about? Paul hints that some are predestined to become followers of Jesus Christ. Could it be that we chose before birth or before conception, before entering the womb, that we would be for or against God? And this earthy existence is simply the proving of that decision. For surely God who knows all things doesn't need proof of our loyalty because he knows without the proof. Therefore why are we proving what we are? Is it for our own sake? Is it for the sake of a jury? Why is satan allowed to prove what he is? Surely proof in his case isn't necessary. Could it be that he requires the proof of what he is? As we appreciate with satisfaction the proof, proved to ourselves by ourselves that we are on the LORD'S side, maybe the impenitent need for the sake of justice, proof that the final judgment against them is just, so that they can perish with a recognition that they deserve the judgment met out to them by God. The believers who are few, see the deluding power of the deception of the enemy of Christ, that very powerful delusion, and they also can recognise that the same deluded soul could have been just as deluded before conception if the temptations pre birth were just as great as they are on earth. Maybe before birth we were all tempted to not follow God. However just as satan is here with us before his great destruction. when he becomes ashes under our feet, for he has chosen his path of rebellion, could it be that those too who are against God need the opportunity to prove their guilt so that they may know that they have been judged fairly by God and acknowledge that they are deserving of His judgment involving their own destruction. Interesting subject isn't it.

[@jed4235]

Love the Andy McKee! Also great video thank you.

Anyone else notice the Johnny Cashness?

[@RyanReevesM]

Boy Named Sue, baby

[@reformedcatholic457]

Very interesting!

[@josephcandito]

Can you create a presentation on the extra Calvunisticum and how it relates to their differing Christologies and views on the Lords Supper?

[@thenowchurch6419]

Contrary to this Calvin seems to be a "frozen chosen". He did not do missionary work but just preached at established churches. He was mainly concerned with building up church authority and expanding it to the civil governmental sphere also.

[@RyanReevesM]

By that standard every reformer in the 16th century is frozen chosen.

[@thenowchurch6419]

That may be true. The Moravians and their missionary zeal made up for that drought in the 17 and 18th centurys.

[@wtom04]

The true Biblical meaning of PREDESTINATION is that God predestined those that have willfully believed the gospel and are eternally saved - John 3:16, John 5:24, Ephesians 1:13, Acts 16:30-31 to be transformed into immortal bodies of flesh and bone at the Rapture which is a future event - 1 Corinthians 15:51-52, 1 Thess 4:16-17, Romans8:23, 1 John 3:2. Ephesians 1:4-5, Ephesians 1:11, and Romans8:29-30 needs to be read in light of the above passages, and at the Rapture all saved Church age Christians will be transformed into immortal bodies just like Jesus resurrected body of flesh and bone as described in Luke 24:39. Christ's newly resurrected body is the prototype of what is to come. We shall be like Him - 1 John 3:2. At the Rapture all Church age Christians who have died will be resurrected from their graves as well as those bodies that were cremated and all Church age Christians who are still physically alive at that time will be instantly transformed. After the Rapture, saved Christians will appear before the Judgment Seat of Christ to determine the gain or loss of eternal rewards - 2 Cor 5:10, 1 Cor 3:10-15 and whether or not they will be reigning with Christ in the Millennial Kingdom here on the New Earth in the New Jerusalem - Revelation 2:26, Rev 3:21, Rev 21. All Church age Christians who have died before the Rapture are now in the presence of the Lord in heaven which is a temporary resident. When they are transformed with their new bodies, and then after appearing before the Judgment Seat of Christ, they will inhabit the New Earth in the New Jerusalem which is the permanent resident. The true Biblical meaning of ELECTION is that God elected/chose those who have willfully believed the gospel and are saved for SERVICE/MINISTRY. God chose Abraham, God chose Moses to lead His people, God chose Jacob to carry on the seed of Isaac, God chose King David to lead Israel, God chose Solomon to lead after his father, God chose Paul to be the apostle to the Gentiles, God chose Simon Peter to be the apostle to the Jews, God chose Mary to be the biological mother of Jesus, God chose Israel to be His people, God chose Jerusalem to be His city. There is a world of difference between true Biblical predestination and election versus Calvinistic "predestination"/"election" which is false. Calvin's perverted concept of predestination/election did not come from the Bible, but came from Augustine.

[@bryanpepperell]

The Bondage Of The Will is much more iron clad than the presenter is prepared to admit. Too selective in what he has chosen to focus on. Luther talks about the christian who is not doing well but he will not exclude him on that basis.

[@seanwelch71]

I have always believed that we do good works, that is selfless acts for the benefit of others, because we are good people doing Christ's work (or at least, it is a community necessity) not because we are earning salvation by doing those works. If God approves, how would I know anyway? I see volunteering and charity as a means of lessening suffering and connecting with other people's needs. I enjoy serving in some beneficial way and never consider my own profit. Sometimes they try to give you a t-shirt at volunteer situations, but I won't even accept it. Seems like a profit! (LOL) Is this in error of Catholic doctrine?

[@bobpolo2964]

There are no good people

[@machintelligence]

So you need not be paid to be good, you are willing to be good for nothing. ;-)

[@jennifercarrico1603]

The Bible has contradictions. In John 3:16 the Bible says that God loves everyone with a saving love while other verses says that he only loves the elect with a saving love.

[@bengray423]

Many are called ,few are chosen ! Paul was chosen ! As many as believe gave he power to become sons of GOD ! You must be BORN AGAIN ! Everyone is called at some point ! You can refuse that call ! READ the NEW TESTIMENT ! GOOD GRIEF !

[@Dalmenco]

are these teachings from Jesus Christ ? and why?

[@de629]

Yes they are........ In John chapter 6 Jesus explains why people don't believe, because they were not given to him by the Father. Why? I don't know I just believe the scripture.

[@Dalmenco]

Richard Moore why do they call it Calvinism or Lutheranism?

[@de629]

Munja, I"m just slipping into bed, I'll attempt to answer part of your question tomorrow. I don't know why I'm not seeing your new question on this youtube comment area.

[@de629]

It would be easy to say Lutheran's follow the teaching of Luther and Calvinist's following the teaching of John Calvin, but that is not correct. Lutheran is an actual church denomination. Many who identify as Calvinist don't agree on all Calvin's teaching nor do most know them. Where us Calvinists agree is on the Doctrines of Grace known as the 5-Point of Calvinism described by the 20th century acronym T-U-L-I-P. This is not Point the Calvin came up with by came about in the 17th century as the Church of Holland's response to the Arminian Remonstrance. Getting back to Calvin, he didn't teach anything new concerning predestination, he was in agreement with St. Augustin on the subject and in fact quotes him in his Institutes of the Christian Religion. Us Calvinist believe it is the correct interpretation of the scriptures. If you have any question feel free to contact me. If you are interested in reading look at "Augustin on Predestination", The Reformed Doctrine of Predestination" by Loraine Boettner (Loranine is actually a man not a woman) and 'Bondage of the Will" by Martin Luther

[@nwilson8025]

No, Calvinism is a satanic heresy. Both Martin Luther and John Calvin are almost certainly burning in hell right now.

[@ChrisHolman]

Predestination is an awful heresy

[@davidhowell601]

How many angels can dance on a pinhead?

[@RyanReevesM]

5

[@bengray423]

Predestination is not in the BIBLE ! No such thing !

[@RyanReevesM]

Except those verses that talk about predestination. Other than that...

[@mitzvahgolem8366]

I thought Luther was bad until I read what Calvin said and did...tortured and killed even children...manaics...

[@rockpaperscissors82]

What are you talking about? Calvin didn't torture and kill children, or anything even remotely close to that.

[@johanstrydom2919]

I am proudly calvinist.

[@acortes7771]

I am proudly Christian!

[@REDRAGON12345]

You say this on every video don't you. -Proudly Arminian

[@armymobilityofficer9099]

I am proudly Christian.

[@philliphapsburg8575]

And a moron. How does it feel being duped by Jews? Worse,how does it feel having a faith created by Jews? Why do you think Luther turned on the Jews? Because they duped him. Luther was such a moron that he allowed Jews to not only convert a bible for him but to create hate between Christians. To this day the Protestant is the Jews largest enabler.

[@20july1944]

Johan and Berean: Why does God make the nonelect?

[@AnnaMariaBarbastefano]

mega fantastic - extraordinary -superb video - l am downloading them to listen them while l am making some household activities all by myself - l use the Bible of Geneve which is calvinist- tend to predestination- Lutero does not teach it - l dont care anyway l dare to prefer to believe l depend to live by grace-God bless your life Ryan friend.