Luthier Quick Tip 21 The Truth About Wood Figure Grades

What you need to know about grades when selecting figured woods for guitar building.
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[@kostasmarinakis1459]

Amazing channel! Thank so much for all the info!

[@jimbecker5675]

This quick tip is very spot on.

[@stephentuttle1497]

I don't have a lot of selection locally for things like figured maple. When I buy on line, I only use vendors that show photos of the actual piece(s) that are for sale. Keeping to that, I have not been disappointed. Keep up the great videos.

[@HighlineGuitars]

Even with good photos, I've been stung before. All it takes is once for me.

[@FormulaXFD]

@@HighlineGuitars Could you go into details on how you were burned?

[@HighlineGuitars]

@@FormulaXFD Cracks. Serious warp and twist. Photos that didn't match what I received.

[@rokinrandy]

You can buy a guitar for the prices they sale that mess. But like you said. It’s not like you can just drive down the street and buy a 4/4 around 7 inch 10 foot long. I’ve heard of people paying only 40 bucks local for a nice figured top or even 3 from the same board. it must be nice.

[@heathpass3708]

I think this comes into play when us kit builders are looking for a kit. Like a solid flame top, some places don’t bother with a grade others like say precision guitars give you the option of customization to 4A or so. Unless your there in person it’s always going to be luck of the draw. I have a luthier company in Murfreesboro tn that gives you a pic of what your actually buying which is cool.

[@walterrider9600]

thank you

[@thefreese1]

Well the lumberyard carries lumber that's sawn in order to get the most board feet vs time . Luthier wood is Quarter sawn.

[@Metalbass10000]

I more or less ignore any grading system, unless the vendor has proven over time that they are consistent and very selective when it comes to any grading system. This is very important, as well as understanding what characteristics are considered, and how various different species are evaluated, when they are grading . For example, many vendors only evaluate the appearance of the wood, and some only evaluate the figuring, and NOT the grain, whether it is particularly aesthetically pleasing, or grain that is straight and/or consistent, versus uneven, irregular, or very inconsistent. Some don't include the degree to which the grain is fine or tight, versus grain that is coarse or open, relative to what is most commonly found in that particular species' grain structure and/or appearance. Some apply grading very differently for spalted woods, and I have found tremendous inconsistencies in how different vendors apply their grading system to burled woods. Many vendors do not include any evaluations of minor structural defects, like small checks or shakes, choosing to give the piece its grading solely on aesthetic considerations, whether this is figuring primarily or all aspects of its appearance,, and then separately noting the presence of the minor checks or shakes. I have been told that because these pieces are being graded largely based on their appearance, and these pieces are going to be used for decorative items, or to build projects which are valued more for aesthetic considerations, and thus the overall value of the piece is more a function of its appearance than other aspects, like it's structural integrity, and the focus of the builder, and the end user, is not necessarily on structural properties, that these characteristics or properties can be in some cases somewhat overlooked, if not completely disregarded, for the purpose of grading. I always rely on actuality seeing the wood, or seeing detailed, and well focused, pictures of the wood. I will always carefully inspect every piece, and compare every piece, of the shipment of wood, immediately upon its arrival. I also verify the vendor's policies, for returns, for refunds or replacement, for shipping damages, for any guarantees regarding the piece shown in pictures, and the specific item's inventory or stock number, matches the order invoicing, and that the piece shown in the pictures, as a given inventory number, is the actual piece that was sent and received. Most venders I have done business with our very good when it comes to working with you, making sure that you receive the peace that you ordered, and making sure that you are, relative to the definitions of relevant terms as are in accordance with their policies, satisfied with the pieces you ordered and that you received. However, it IS always your responsibility to know the policies of the vendor, and to protect your interests, as not every vendor is as honest and concerned with your satisfaction as we would like them all to be, unfortunately.

[@theskycouldfly]

My hardwood supplier just has 2 grades, supiror and not supiror. Makes buying a breeze

[@jamess.829]

Thanks for the good tip. It helps to hear something that wakes you up to reality. It is so easy to fall for the hype, especially when you don't really know any better. Sellers count on people being uninformed and then use deceptive advertising to lure you into buying their product. It must be better because it is so expensive. I didn't even know there was a 5A grade of wood. I always thought the triple A was the best, or fanciest. So, if I buy 3A lumber and call it super 6A grade just think how many people would fall for that!!! A little off subject is "Military Grade". What does that mean? Something made by the lowest bid contractor? They want you to think it is something special. Anyone that was in the military knows better.

[@HighlineGuitars]

I laugh at all the poor saps who get conned into paying a premium for Russian military spec capacitors.

[@jamess.829]

@@HighlineGuitars I'm just finding your channel so I don't yet know if you have ever discussed tone capacitors. I'm and electrical person by trade and I pretty much chuckle at the myths and fallacies of different capacitors being better than this or that. I've tested quite a few and have confirmed what I had always thought. But you certainly cannot convince people of anything once their minds are set.

[@rokinrandy]

Especially a new builder like me that dreams about making new and different stuff. All they have around here is pine . If there is maple or cherry or walnut and it can sound good Idc just sell it at a good price I’ll take it.

[@retrosonixofficial6891]

Try fencing and cladding...i am using roasted sycamore meant for cladding and it is very good, they also have roasted ash and poplar for bodies. They roast the wood on an industrial scale.if you are able to sort through you can nice straight grained pieces, some with slight figure..

[@davidclink2032]

Some woodworkers that like re-purposed wood talk about old close grain wood and the hardness shown with the steel ball penetration test. Not sure how it would work for guitars.

[@thetoneknob4493]

its the same with stock blanks!

[@BAMozzy69]

Of course its just opinion - Someone decides how the figuring looks to them and that can vary. As someone who buys 'guitars' more than wood, I see guitars listed as AAA, 5A, 10 top, Artist grade etc and whilst some of the figuring maybe 'pretty', I sometimes see tops that look equally (if not more aesthetically pleasing to me) that are not as highly graded. You can save money on instruments and I assume woods too by shopping around and actually assessing the woods/tops yourself rather than specifically looking for 5A or 10top grading only.

[@utubepassenger]

And what would be the audio difference in higher grades? Better resonance when played unplugged? And there are many luthiers who say that on electric guitars the wood makes no difference, only the pickups produce the tone... You should do a video test on this subject - 'Does tonewood make any difference on electric guitars?'.

[@HighlineGuitars]

It's already been overdone into oblivion. My position is that yes, wood affect tone while not affecting tone at the same time. ;-)

[@utubepassenger]

@@HighlineGuitars Luthiers who sale guitars made of different woods, and expensive ones, should position that way on this delicate subject, it's the smartest one... I guess that a serious test comparing tonewoods on electrics will never be done by luthiers who sale guitars.

[@lincolnsixecho51]

Hi! Great, that you make a video about "guitar optical specs" - de facto the used wood!! - i think, the problem is, that customers sometimes like to mix up two different specifications of a musical instrument: "quality" and "attractivity".... - I personally don't trust such "grading-systems" as for example: "2A", "3 A" or "5A" - because there are no objective and overall accepted criteria for using such grading items - its only a highly subjective optical taxation, which changes from company to company and that at last should be an excuse to raise the "worth" ( ... and the PRIZE!!) of an instrument for them! - In fact, it says nothing about the sound characteristic of the wood! - But humans are a species being massivly driven by their optical perceptions and, because guitarists are artists, they have a strong urge for aesthetics and - even optical - harmony, so they don't only want to SOUND great, they often ALSO like to work with "artful made" instruments... - So, If i had to decide how to grade the figuring on a musical instrument, i think it world be much more fair to the customer, to use more objective descriptions for the figuration of f.e. guitar wood, so that more customers probably would be d'accord on the esteemation, - like items of the basical structure of this figuration, that ar more valid to the eyes of different watchers (as, f.e. "natural".../ "flamed"/... / quilted"..../ "birds eye..." figured etc. ), and - (perhaps) one could try additional, to estimate the overall expressional grade in which the figurating appears, like "not figured" , "fairly ..."/ "moderatly.... "/"intense"..... - and - for top-grade figurations: - "intense and matching" figured! - Okay, this may not sound so "cool", but it would be probably more realistical proofed.... However: - Every customer should be aware, that all this stays being a highly subjective judgement which depends at last on the eye of the observator - and - at least its much more important to get a great SOUNDING instrument with reliable technical functions and a good PLAYABILITY ..... - and, i think, this is also the message, that i got from your video..... Best wishes! Lincoln

[@onpsxmember]

How far do you drive to source your wood? Would you say it pays off to make bigger hauls to stack up on wood once in a while if you have no specific request?

[@HighlineGuitars]

15 miles. I buy in bulk and store the boards I process.

[@jamess.829]

For normal people who don't use wood as quickly as a business might it is important to be able to store that larger amount properly.

You would think after hundreds of years of wood working there would be a grading system. It has to do with the mentality, culture and perhaps indifference of the luthier community. Me just being a guitar player sees that there not a great unify of hundreds or thousands of luthiers to do something about it. Gibson, Fender, Martin, Taylor the big complanies have their own internal graders but that's with them and their suppliers!

[@daulay3322]

Hahahaha... agree. Most of so called "Standard" comes from Consultant. And what they do? they do ConSult? and what is that? ..... Confront & Insult... 😅 Your own eyes are the most trustable ones. And maybe your wife's can be taken as 2nd opinion 😊🙏

[@benstolt4091]

Completely agree with checking local. I have found some great stuff for way cheaper. Plus the search is kind of fun. Completely agree that the grading isn't consistent between shops. The local (Oregon) specialized shops I buy guitar wood for seem to use this system, 4a = is good figure but maybe figure isn't consistent throughout or may have a a knot or slight twist in board. 5a=good figure but again maybe not perfectly consistent throughout. Musical = consistant figure. It would be interesting to here what other local shops do! There are some websites that show you the specific board so you know what you are getting for your money. The wood is definitely way more expensive though. I am lucky they are close so I can look at boards online, go to shop, and verify I want to spend that much. Sometimes I am, sometimes not. But I am newish (6years) to the whole luthier thing and not doing as business. It's to be less efficient with money/materials when it ends up being your guitar. The shops I use are nwtimber (I'm a really big fan of nw timber but again I get to shop in person so it may be a different experience purely online) and Gilmer. Always interested to hear if others have sources they like. Especially if they are in Oregon haha

[@benstolt4091]

But another great video Chris! I was just thinking how I can help support you. I'll check out you website and see if there is something I can use!