Lyle McDonald on the Truth About Training to Failure

[@Kyle-ys3cv]

Glad Lyle’s back

[@MikeMatthewsFitness]

Me too!

[@superhuman991]

Thank you for having lyle on

[@MikeMatthewsFitness]

You're very welcome. I have a lot of respect for him.

[@B1bLioPhil3]

Lyle is the goat. There is no question. He has been proving "experts" wrong for decades now. Not years. Decades!

[@MikeMatthewsFitness]

Always a pleasure having him on the podcast.

[@TheCatseyepub]

what they didn't touch upon is what some proponents of hit training do which is worry less about how many reps you're doing but concentrate on time under load. I often make each rep last at least 12 seconds between the concentric and eccentric , going to failure. So for 5 reps that's one minute under load. contrast that with what most folks do, which is one second up and one second down. so for 10 reps, most folks are completing it in around 20 seconds and often not going close to failure

[@MikeMatthewsFitness]

Thanks for the insight!

[@genvalentine2259]

Mike!! Discovered muscle for life way way back (id like to say 15yrs ago) and thats how i got started in getting into a more intentional approach to weight training. Stumbled onto Lyle's stuff just recently (few months) and geezeluweez such an eye opener. He certainly can come across as an @hole but he tells things as it is. Well just dropped in to say that I'm glad to see you are still around and still doing the stuff you are so passionate about and thank you for all your work!!

[@MikeMatthewsFitness]

Glad to hear you enjoyed it, Lyle is incredibly knowledgeable! Thanks for the kind words!

[@nellosnook4454]

1. Personally, I believe in “Intuitive Training”. 2. Consistency over intensity for overall maximum health. 3. Do what you can do on a regular, consistent, daily basis. 4. It’s more important that your body become accustomed to safe, consistent, positive-experience exercise than adhering to somebody else’s rigid go-to-failure principles. 5. Once your body becomes adapted to the present level of intensity, your body will know when & how much to increase intensity. 6. Success-over time-is dependent on you maintaining a positive regimen. 7. Staying in the game. 8. Not checking-out because you didn’t meet someone else’s standards.

[@MikeMatthewsFitness]

Thanks for the comment!

[@deborahbaca1345]

#8. OK but what if one continues to work toward reaching an experienced strength trainers level? Success of others helps us to rise above our resistance or limitations.

[@mcfarvo]

Yeah, for just staying "generally healthy" your guidelines + proper diet + proper sleep/rest will probably keep most people happily healthy, but if someone is looking to seriously achieve high-level, exceptional, approaching/actualizing their potential, then it is improbable that your tips will work for those people

[@nellosnook4454]

@@deborahbaca1345 1. Agreed. 2. But deciding when & how to advance to that next increment of achievement should be your decision-not someone else’s.

[@nellosnook4454]

@@mcfarvo Fair enough.

[@Fusionw3]

please get lyle back and discuss about maintenance calories being just as good as a surplus for gaining muscle. his take would be interesting

[@josephbecker7570]

Yes, 100% agree

[@samuelchan3920]

By definition, maintenance won't be just as good as a surplus. But you only need a small surplus to optimise growing muscle while minimising fat gain.

[@josephbecker7570]

@@samuelchan3920 agree, but I feel like almost no one talks about experiences with medium to long-term recomping. The only real-world application I've seen on youtube is Natural Hypertrophy. Would be interesting if Lyle, or anyone for that matter, had experience with a client that recomped for a year or more.

[@Marko-ij4vy]

@@josephbecker7570 Natural Hypertrophy is at higher bodyfat. You will stall hard if you try to recomp at low bodyfat. If youre in the 15-20 ish% bodyfat recomping can work. But wouldnt do that if youre already lean. You have to realize that at higher bodyfat youre basically at energy surplus which is almost equivalent of leaner guy being on a calorie surplus.

[@josephbecker7570]

@@Marko-ij4vy yes, I am aware of that. I'm more curious what happens when someone more than 20% bf recomps AFTER their 1st year noobie gains. But I guess it's not something most people really do on purpose because it's not as efficient as simply cutting and bulking.

[@benrusher581]

dogcrap set!! 😂seriously though, I am mainly an endurance runner but do weights for general health, well-being, injury prevention and reduce atrophy as I hit 50. I am guilty of under-cooking my resistance training but I am also aware that going to failure regularly is not my thing. I know my sleep can be a big deciding factor as I often don't get enough quality sleep, even though I try.

[@deborahbaca1345]

You'd probably get better sleep by strength training. I do.

[@MikeMatthewsFitness]

Time to stop under-cooking and turn the heat up a bit. :)

[@TheBludgeoningEffect]

The wife and I love to go hard in the gym! Especially with machines like hammer strength chest press, it's great to have her there to wait till the bar stalls out for at least a full second, then apply a single finger on each side to gently help me finish the rep up, then she applies pressure on the top and forces me to fight her on the way down, since eccentric strength is much greater than concentric. Then it's her turn!

[@mikeanthony8699]

Here is my issue with the finding that 3-min rest intervals were superior to 1-min rest intervals. That study concluded that the 1-min rest internal group 50% would need to perform more sets to obtain the same growth as the 3-min rest interval group. Assume it takes one min to perform the set and you perform 10 high quality growth producing sets. However, bc you are going to rest only 1 min, you need to perform 50% more sets or 15 sets in other words. This will take you 30 mins (i.e., [1 min + 1 min] X 15 sets). This is more efficient than longer rest intervals, which would take you 40 mins (i.e., [1 min + 3 min] X 10 sets). With those remaining ten mins you can write a comment to a youtube video or something like that.

[@AshabahebwaLewis]

Time efficient yes, but overtime you'll quickly stop looking forward to your workouts simply due to the sheer burnout you go through every workout with those short rest intervals. Sounds more like a time efficient way to lose morale for working out.

[@elobiretv]

Yeah but if you take 3 mins rest you can probably increase the weight to more than you would do with only 1 minute rest, which is going to give you better results.

[@gustavovalverde6226]

Sets

[@schibleh531]

56:29 1:06:03 1:20:00

[@josephkoerner4856]

Training too or close to failure is easier to define and achieve if you keep the rep ranges

[@ShawnGetty-eb1gj]

Im still waiting for Mike Israetel and Brad Schoenfeld to send Lyle the video of them doing 45 sets to failure so they can prove him wrong once and for all. But they wont, because Lyle is right as always.

[@krazus2036]

I would challenge someone to do more than 5 sets till failure! Momentary Muscle Failure that is, not this technical failure bull.

[@maxmaximum-sh4bx]

Thanks Mike for inviting Lyle to the podcast!

[@locdzoe]

HST was my first structured program! Haha great episode 🔥

[@azulsimmons1040]

At least Lyle still likes you well enough to be on your podcast.

[@deborahbaca1345]

Really helpful interview. 👌🏻 thank you

[@MikeMatthewsFitness]

Glad to hear it! Was a fun one to record

[@tsebosei1285]

Can't wait to learn just appeared on my feeds now let's go learn

[@MikeMatthewsFitness]

Thanks for checking it out. I hope you enjoyed it!

[@ianwilson4841]

What about rep cadance? If I perform one set for 6 reps that take 10 seconds to complete my TUL would be 60 seconds. If some does 3 sets of 10 but each rep is only 2 seconds to complete its the same TUL. The difference is with faster reps speeds you've may have done more mechanical work, but the TUT is the same. Thats why using numbers of reps isn't an accurate way to measure optimal volume because it depends on the speed at which those repetitions are performed.

[@matthew6406]

I try to incorporate both methods. Sometimes focusing on reps and other times focusing on tut. That way I feel I'm getting the best of both worlds plus it breaks up the monotony

[@MikeMatthewsFitness]

Progressive overload > TUT. Tempo does help with muscle building, but it’s not as crucial as the total amount of tension your muscles create. That’s why progressive overload is so important-it’s all about increasing the tension your muscles can produce. You do this by gradually adding more weight to the bar, machine, or dumbbells over time. Episode here: legionathletics.com/muscle-for-life-episode-888-says-you-rep-tempo-podcast/

[@punchgod]

This is overthinking it like crazy. Lift the weight till you can’t.

[@Omar1066]

Great interview Mike.

[@Infinaut-rb7hu]

Superb video!

[@maxmaximum-sh4bx]

Great episode!

[@MikeMatthewsFitness]

glad you enjoyed it!

[@rdf098311]

Training to/close to failure is not only beneficial, it is fun.

[@Kinta02]

actually funny that Lyle in 2024 looks like the voice of reason compared to the sCieNtiStS that are popular on youtube right now (who my gut tells me couldnt differentiate boy from girl anymore)

[@jamesfioriello8741]

Get Lyle to write a training book!

[@MikeMatthewsFitness]

Good suggestion!

[@vancemcnulty8242]

Thanks for that, Lyle McDonald is a true scientist and has usually stood alone against the industry charlatans. An old quote by Arthur Jones way back in 1974, "multiple sets are seldom if ever required for the purpose of increasing strength, so long as each exercise is continued to a point of momentary failure in good form." We've known about this phenomenon for a very long time but for some reason choose to ignore it and worse express contempt for it.

[@MikeMatthewsFitness]

Excellent point

[@ew-zd1th]

Whats lyles thought about dynamic lower back isolation training for Maximum erector gainz?

[@shantanusapru]

Interesting!!

[@lazer797]

Lyle is better at talking than listening to say the least

[@mcfarvo]

Good to see Lyle back out there

[@MikeMatthewsFitness]

Really enjoyed having him back on the podcast

[@PaintDryLifting]

But if i train to failure, how am I supposed to get through the 52 sets that The Science says are needed for hypertrophy?

[@user-nm3ug3zq1y]

"science"

[@soofitnsexy]

there is no science...theres just you and the bar

[@DjZephy]

"scientific" studies on bodybuilding are usually ridiculous. It's like... "we took two groups of people and studied them over a period of 4 weeks. One group did 100 sets per week for their chest and the other group only did 10 sets. The 100 set group grew 5% more muscle." Then people interpret that as "everyone should always do 100 sets per week for every muscle group, forever!" How about studying an average group of people over 5-10 years... see who is able to stick with a plan, who gets injured, etc... Who has the overall best success over a long period? I get that it would be VERY difficult to study... but it would be actually useful.

[@PaintDryLifting]

@@DjZephy the "muscle" growth usually being fluid from the massive inflammation the 100 sets caused too

[@spurzo-thespiralspacewolf8916]

Paul Carter also believes that “intensity techniques” just adds more volume to save time, but they don’t add to hypertrophy. Better off resting then doing another set

[@emmang2010]

Bro, for nothing but the upmost interest in your longevity, listen to Renaissance Periodization. DO NOT Listen TO PAUL CARTER

[@throwawayyoutube]

can you link me to where he said this?

[@user-nm3ug3zq1y]

Or don't listen to both.

[@emmang2010]

@@user-nm3ug3zq1y very much agree

[@spurzo-thespiralspacewolf8916]

@@emmang2010Paul is more science based than Mike

[@cincee6417]

I tried to buy his Women’s Book a few years ago and he was so nasty to me when I emailed a question about receiving the book, I vowed I would never give him a dime of my money. He barked at me in an email, “Don’t you think I have to sleep? I don’t need you to buy my book and I refunded your money.” He’s a total asshat and apparently has enough money that selling a $55 book meant nothing to him. That was a LOT of money for me to spend on a book and I’m glad I didn’t. Listening to him on here proved that the years have not humbled him. I enjoy your show and products, Mike, but you associating with him is slightly disappointing.

[@MikeMatthewsFitness]

Thanks for the feedback. I'm sorry to hear you had that experience.

[@skdjirrrdjdm3926]

He has always had that reputation. Sometime around 2013 he wrote an article on his website about being diagnosed as bipolar and acknowledged/apologized that it was part of what made him as asshole. I don't think he's like that all the time, but like many ppl with mental/emotional issues you never know which side of them you're going to see.

[@williamlawlor7445]

Can you recover from training to failure every week for the length of time needed to gain? No you can't. Training to failure over the shorter term will yield better results but training a rep or two shy of failure over the longer term will yield more results because you can recover from it. Everything works but nothing works forever.

[@MikeMatthewsFitness]

Well said.

[@spurzo-thespiralspacewolf8916]

Actually, yes I can and do! LOL

[@bojanrajacic5045]

Lyle is the 🐐

[@MikeMatthewsFitness]

Damn straight

[@FormlessJKD17]

I never train to true failure because I like to train everyday.

[@MikeMatthewsFitness]

Fair reason. Just be mindful of recovery so you're not overtraining.

[@GG-wg1yh]

ZERO

[@sixzerotwo]

Get a life, or at least perhaps consider training different muscle groups instead of training full body every day.

[@DjZephy]

@@sixzerotwo Why do you have to get all catty and butthurt over someone training more often than you? Absolutely pathetic.

[@Coachahmadreza]

🙏🏾

[@fredrickzoller5643]

Please don’t put ads in your videos or at the very least put them at the start or end of them

[@jon-kd5st]

Im a winner good sir!!! And i only train winners! Why do i want to train to lose!

[@theironforce3000]

Surprising he's doing this podcast, considering how many bridges he's burned.

[@ChadAV69]

They hated Jesus because he spoke the truth

[@user-nm3ug3zq1y]

Not sure what you're even talking about. Calling out BS is burning bridges to you? Wouldn't you prefer sports science to get a grip and stop pushing out crap studies with a million sets "to failure"? Do you think anything is ever gonna change by just nodding nicely and letting pseudo doctors push their nonsense? (Not that this will ever change.)

[@jacklauren9359]

Must be a fan of bio bs lane PhD cult bullshit 😂

[@user-nm3ug3zq1y]

Although Layne Norton seems to be a harmless animal compared to the bunch of doctors Lyle has been arguing with more recently.

[@josephkoerner4856]

Omg lyle has a hard time not chirping while someone speaks lol. He is made to do dissertations, or to be read, not actual shared dialog in a podcast.

[@robertthompson5501]

Rippetoe is correct SS. Three sets of 5 with linear Progression. Great info on this podcast. Otherwise "Your not doing the Program!^ 🙏🏻👹🏋🏻🏊‍♀️

[@Jacksonnnnnnnnnnnnn]

H3ll yeh buddy

[@DjZephy]

Hello everyone, my name is Willy Johnson. I am a huge fan of Lyle mcdonalds since a long time. I hope everyone enjoyed the video as much as I did. My name is Willy Johnson.

[@analogcrunch4716]

Sets of 4 to 5 reps is absolutely stupid for hypertrophy it’s so ridiculous sorry man. No one trains that way.

[@user-nm3ug3zq1y]

Are you sharing your favorite fun facts here, or what is this about? No one said that 4 to 5 reps was the way to go now.

[@williamlawlor7445]

I don't get this rubbish. For a start your body knows nothing about reps only tension. Tension is a combo of weight, reps and tempo.

[@spurzo-thespiralspacewolf8916]

Why?

[@bradleythompson2644]

Tell that to Reg Parks and all the other famous proponents of 5x5; one of the most tried and proven methods for strength AND Hypertrophy. I’m no arguing it’s optimal, but to say it’s ‘absolutely stupid’ is well…. Absolutely stupid. Even Kevin Levrone and Dorian Yates primarily trained in the 6-8 rep range. You think the owners two of the best BB physiques ever were a maximum of three extra reps away from a number of reps that is ‘absolutely stupid’?

[@rdf098311]

Wrong

[@Ultimatefitness360]

Can anybody explain me in few words that whats dr lyle wants to tell

[@soofitnsexy]

no one can

[@daveoalumbo6016]

Mike please dont interupt your guests

[@MikeMatthewsFitness]

Thanks for the feedback.

[@deborahbaca1345]

It's an interview and conversation. Not a monolog.

[@EmilWestrum]

@@deborahbaca1345 every conversation with Lyle becomes a monolog if you dont interrupt him :p