M.D. vs. D.O. | Allopathic and Osteopathic Medical School Comparison

The M.D. and D.O. degrees will both allow you to practice medicine as a doctor in the United States. However, there are several important differences you should keep in mind when deciding whether to apply to allopathic or osteopathic medical schools.
Osteopathic medicine was founded in 1874 by Dr. Andrew Taylor Still. Since then, D.O. schooling has gained some momentum - there are now over 30 D.O. schools in the U.S. and they constitute approximately 20% of all medical students enrolled in the United States.
As for differences, there are several important considerations:
1) Curriculum
The curriculum between D.O. and M.D. medical schools is nearly identical, with the exception of osteopathic manipulative medicine (OMM for short). Osteopathic schools require 300-500 hours of additional OMM training on top of the regular science content you would learn during your pre-clinical and clerkship years as a medical student.
2) Exams
In allopathic medical schools, you take the USMLE Step exams. In osteopathic medical schools, you take the COMLEX exams. However, the more important difference to note is with regards to getting into the two types of medical schools.
Osteopathic medical school matriculants have lower average MCAT and lower average GPA than their allopathic medical school counterparts. This means it is less competitive to get into D.O. schools.
3) Disadvantages of D.O. School
Unfortunately, the D.O. is not respected to the same degree as the M.D. I believe this comes down to two factors: first, less competitive students, on average, pursue the D.O. track. Second, the pseudo-science surrounding certain practices, like craniosacral therapy, doesn't exactly engender a sense of confidence and competence.
Who Should Apply to Osteopathic Medical Schools?
Ultimately, there are 3 good reasons to apply to D.O. schools over M.D. schools
1) You're interested in OMM
2) You're going into primary care or less competitive specialties
3) Your GPA and/or MCAT are low
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Disclaimer: Content of this video is my opinion and does not constitute medical advice. The content and associated links provide general information for general educational purposes only. Use of this information is strictly at your own risk. Kevin Jubbal, M.D. and Med School Insiders LLC will not assume any liability for direct or indirect losses or damages that may result from the use of information contained in this video including but not limited to economic loss, injury, illness or death.

[@MedSchoolInsiders]

Thanks everyone for watching! This seems to be quite the controversial video (by our standards). After referencing several of my own Osteopathic friends and colleagues, we all agreed that everything in this video is 100% factual. In fact, they weren't offended in the slightest (and were confused why some people were), but a few commenters below seem outraged. Yes, some OMM is great, and some of it isn't supported by science. Yes, it is definitely easier to get into DO schools than MD schools on average. Yes, it is harder to match into highly competitive specialties as a DO than an MD, even with the residency merger (but only time will tell). It's not impossible, in fact one DO student matched into plastic surgery my year (out of 150+ MD students). Possible, but much harder. If you find yourself cursing at your screen, I urge you to consider watching the video again and assessing if anything stated was false or highly biased. My only regret, if I could redo this video, would be to have more disclaimers to avoid the anti-DO and anti-MD clusterf*** that is the comments below. "Those who are easily offended should be offended more often.”

[@ahmedazzawi9950]

Yo, can you do a video on Podiatry schools?

[@roia2727]

I think it was your pretentious voice. That is fact. And no, D.O’s still get highly respected only people with low self esteem like you would suggest so. Get over it your approach was atrocious whether or not you were factual

[@tristonlilly635]

Hey Mr. Jubal, I was wondering as you had mentioned this video in your latest release would you be able to do research into a, well very intensive specialty? I am thinking I may not be as academically competitive for an allopathic school, but I may be able to be accepted into an O.M.M. school. I have been rather, fascinated on the specialization of Hematology, would this be an option for a D.O.?

[@PHILLYMEDIC69]

Yes this video is factual but the tone of your voice and the way you presented the video was straight up negative energy (it felt like you were ready to diss anything that's not MD).

[@brois841]

@@PHILLYMEDIC69 tone and negative energy? As you said, the video is factual and clearly you 'felt' a certain way because you don't like the way the facts are presented? You can't please everyone... I hope that if you're a doctor that you treat with facts instead of feelings.

[@donaldlewis567]

As a D.O. I never thought too much about the difference - my doctors in my hometown of Philly were D.O.'s so that is what I wanted to be. I applied to both MD and DO schools - got into 2 MD and 2 DO (rejected/waitlisted by 4 other MD - applied to both MD and DO to be safe). Chose the school where my family docs went to - PCOM. I matched at the Mayo Clinic for residency in psychiatry. In over 15 years of practice I have never had anyone show any disrespect towards DOs - maybe I am fortunate. I don't see how the patient would even know. Good doctors are good doctors.

[@AmbitiousNoodle]

Wow, there are people out there who are going the route I was considering. Donald, I recently decided on going the medical route for psychiatry instead of my originally planned PhD route. I have personally felt a greater connection to some of the DO schools I have been researching, but I have been concerned that pursuing a DO would disadvantage me in attaining a competitive psych residency. Have you experienced any difficulties in pursuing psychiatry as a DO?

[@donaldlewis567]

Keifer Weiland You will have no problems! I applied for residencies at UVA, UMass, Yale, Mayo and UMinn. Matched at Mayo Clinic - my first choice. Fellowship stayed there but tough choice between Yale and Mayo (got lazy and didn’t want to move for a year :) Bottom line DO was no impediment to residency or your choice in psychiatry :) Good luck!!

[@Commander-Arcamus-]

Hey Donald a quick question if you’d be so kind: I’m a pre med student and did a lot of research into MD and DO and came to the conclusion that DO is “better” than MD simply because in addition to being the exact same thing, DO does even MORE work with OMT. But people still think that MD carries better status. I get why that may be the case when it comes to higher residency match for MD-but I’m interested in General practice (I want to be the jack of all trades instead of limiting my self to one specialty). So given this, am I wrong to think that ironically, DO is better?

[@laiklovesmusic]

Good for you, you chose the better of the two. You were taught things m.d.s don't know and think they don't need to know, THATS WHY THEY CANT CURE ANYTHING. Hope you have great success.

[@laiklovesmusic]

@Open Sesame good for you. You must have good morals and a strong enough mind to see thru the brainwashing tactics. I wouldn't be able to live with myself knowing I was involved in the deaths of so many people. No amount of money or prestige is worth it.

[@cashemco]

I went to MD's in the beginning, then after having horrible migraines and only given drugs my husband said he heard about this DO that was amazing. I went to him and he manipulated my spine while talking to me about monkeys. Result migraines gone and I later found out he out he often talked about monkeys to get you to relax. Our whole family switched to him. Best doctor in our area.

[@Ananvil]

The monkey part is optional - but one of the entertaining parts is that OMT was partially discovered by A.T. Still trying to relieve migraines.

[@chalpua8802]

My buddy went D.O because he had a 527 MCAT and 4.0 GPA, they offered him a full ride for tuition and discounted room & board. The MD schools did not offer him anywhere close to that in AID. He still matched into General Surgery and graduated from his residency this year. He was at the top of his class however, he said the majority of DOs at his school matched into FM, IM and Peds. Radiology is a big one now for them also, people want that work life balance. Some went on to do fellowships but later on. He is finally out of residency hell and got an offer of 350k plus production bonuses in the mid-west. Though he still always works about 60 hours a week minimum.

[@angiemalone7446]

Where did he apply?

[@DrAdnan]

I don’t think this was intending to put DO schools down. I was considering going the DO route myself, but ended up going the MD route for a few of the reasons listed.

[@OmarAbdulMalikDHEdMPASPACPAPro]

Peace be to you Adnan! I considered DO back in 93'. My ego wouldn't let me apply b/c of what this young man is discussing. Ironically, I became a Physician Assistant in 00' and eventually, earned a Doctorate of Health Education from A.T. Still University in 2012. Life is interesting.

[@DrAdnan]

Omar Abdul-Malik DHEd, MPAS, PA-C Peace be to you! It is interesting how life plays out!

[@calejandro4075]

DO trained physicians are equally competent in patient care. The tone of the video implied that MD’s are superior because of they don’t use OMM and the incoming DO students have lower GPA’s on average. I’ve worked with a DO in oncology who was incredible. I wish there were more physicians like him. There should be caution in trying to frame DO as less desirable or easier, especially with the 2020 merger.

[@jimziemer474]

I don’t think the lower GPA is statistically significant. I do think that the lower MCAT is more significant. That said, I think the tests only help,determine who will be successful in school, not how good of a physician the person will be. My only real concern is the OMM seems like voodoo medicine to me.

[@Priyanka.Aarya77]

I agree. I know surgeons who are DOs. My obgyn who delivered my babies was a DO. All doctors. Same education and training as MDs but more of a holistic approach which is what modern medicine needs imo. All provided excellent care. The ER doctor who take care of my daughter last month was a DO.

[@horsecrazed01]

This seemed extremely biased and you failed to mention the residency merger that eliminates the separate residencies for DO and MD. You also failed to mention the tenets of osteopathic medicine... 1.The body is a unit; the person is a unit of body, mind, and spirit. 2.The body is capable of self-regulation, self-healing, and health maintenance. 3.Structure and function are reciprocally interrelated 4.Rational treatment is based upon an understanding of the basic principles of body unity, self-regulation, and the interrelationship of structure and function. Osteopaths seek to treat the disease or illness rather than treat the symptoms. They take a more holistic approach, but in the end they are still doctors licensed to practice medicine just like any other doctor in the US and the discrepancies between the two degrees are slowly diminishing.

[@robertkurd107]

So are you saying that traditional aliphatic medical schools don't believe that the body is a unit, and that the body can self-heal? That's absurd. You're making huge generalizations. You also say that osteopaths treat disease rather than just the symptoms, ALL doctors do that. A holistic approach to medicine is not specific to osteopaths, and you're bashing medical doctors with illegitimate information. Maybe DO school is right for you, since you can't even count to 4 properly...

[@horsecrazed01]

Robert Kurd I don't know why you are incapable of talking in a civil manner. I am in no way bashing medical doctors in my comment nor am I saying allopaths don't believe in any of the osteopathic tenets. I was simply stating what osteopaths emphasize. Also, yes, osteopaths do place a larger emphasis on a holistic approach than their allopathic counterparts.

[@horsecrazed01]

Michael - the stigma may be present in the medical community, but it is not held by the general public. Most people do not even know when they are seeing a DO at the doctor's office because the continuity of care and training between the two degrees is virtually the same.

[@dr.g.k.chilupe9479]

THANK YOU. I was almost going to share this. Good thing I watched this before.

[@teaismyatp]

Agreed!

[@BceltsRayRAy20]

The stigma around DOs is still around but it’s quickly disappearing. The general public doesn’t know that DO students have lower gpa’s or MCAT scores so I doubt that’s the reason. A DO told me that he thinks the stigma comes from DOs originally going to school for one year less than MDs. OMM is probably a part of it but because there is more of an emphasis on preventative/wholistic medicine patients feel that it’s a bit hokey when they’re suggested to change lifestyle habits instead of just taking a pill. Also the MD and DO programs residency programs are merging. Going to a DO school doesn’t make it harder to land a good residency a program. The association comes from the lower scores on boards (that are rising). The two programs are much, much more similar than they are different.

[@DrDreams23]

RR3Demos hahahaha this guy is a joke. Trolling soooooo hard. What are you making up for man?

[@DrDreams23]

RR3Demos I don't need to argue. I know you're compensating for your own deficits online. Why would I argue. I'll be making as much money as an MD. It's just entertaining to watch you try so hard. Baahahahaha. Also sucks for you if you even are a med student at Drexel. You gonna have to work around DOs! Hahahaha. Also I'll matching into an MD program. So I guess MD residencies suck?

[@BceltsRayRAy20]

RR3Demos I’m sure there are both DOs and MDs that aren’t tremendous practitioners but to counter your point, where are your arguments? A good MCAT and GPA do not mean someone will be a good doctor, no matter their classification. That’s why schools look for well rounded applicants. There is much more to being a good doctor and getting a good residency than just scores.

[@BceltsRayRAy20]

Med School Insiders I apologize for this being rather one sided. I didn’t mean to imply MD’s don’t recommend lifestyle changes/search for the root of a problem over going for a “quick fix”. Additionally, I said some things more bluntly than I wish I had but I do believe that nowadays a DO and MD the same scores and extracurriculars would be evaluated the same by a residency program. I felt that some things were missed. I don’t have a problem with your criticism of OMM but I am curious what your reasoning is for having a hard time believing that cranial sacral therapy could work. I don’t know the specifics of the treatment but the body works in crazy ways, so who knows. But I digress, another good video, thank you.

[@justtoolit6051]

Osteopathic Medical Schools are still extremely difficult to get into. A great gpa and mcat is necessary, along with the rest of the usual resume that is required for MD schools.

[@Kwippy]

DO schools could eliminate the stigma by simply ditching/disavowing the pseudo-scientific components of their teaching

[@j572y479]

I think there needs to be an update to this video as a lot has changed. The biases/misconceptions are slowly dwindling. It’s increasingly becoming very competitive to get into DO schools, and lesser proportions of DOs are now matching into primary care and going into more competitive specialties.

[@davidausterman5915]

Totally agree.

[@biancadesousa]

Dr. Mike was good at creating awareness for DO doctors until he was at a yacht full of people while maskless in the middle of a pandemic.

[@ibaadkhan2932]

A number of DO schools have GPA/MCAT averages similar to those of low-tier MD schools.

[@j572y479]

@@ibaadkhan2932 my comment wasn’t about numbers. GPA and MCAT are only a fraction of the requirements needed to be competitive, so I won’t just look at that. Most schools take a holistic approach and a lot of folks with a cumulative GPA of 3.5 get into top tier MD and DO schools. It’s not just about the numbers but the degree of competitiveness of an application and eventual matching into competitive residency programs around the country.

[@ibaadkhan2932]

@@j572y479 Numbers certainly aren't everything, but they are important. GPA and MCAT are central to medical school admissions. No matter what lens you apply, attaining admission to any US medical school -- allopathic or osteopathic -- is extraordinarily difficult.

[@johndudzinski4663]

I once was told the difference between a DO and an MD is that DOs had fun and friends in college.

[@StudentDoctor-oq2bo]

As a student at a DO medical school I have seen and heard the stigma against DO’s. At the end of the day, they are both physicians who are trying to do what is best for their patients. They both learn the same information (with the exception of OMT, which is a topic for another time), and they both take similar exams. DO’s actually end up taking more board exams (the USMLE and the COMLEX). This doesn’t make their path harder or the MD’s path easier, as there are probably other hurdles that MD’s must do through their medical education. I do feel as though the stigma that is against DO’s comes from the idea that DO schools are “easier” to get into. At the end of the day, yes, MCAT scores and GPA’s are probably lower for the average DO student then the average MD student. However, I personally do not believe that these are good measurements for how good of a doctor you will be. Do they matter, absolutely! I think they do indicate how well of a test taker you are, and odds are, if you scored well on the MCAT, you will probably do pretty good in med school. This is becoming a lot longer of a comment then I had anticipated but I just want to finish by saying, at the end of the day, go to the doctor that YOU are comfortable with. Don’t worry about the two letters after their name, if you like them and more importantly, trust them, then go to them. Its that simple.

[@Priyanka.Aarya77]

The stigma is starting to recede. I see more and more DOs in hospitals. I know surgeons who are DOs. My obgyn who delivered my babies was a DO. All doctors. Same education and training as MDs but more of a holistic approach which is what modern medicine needs imo. All provided excellent care. The ER doctor who take care of my daughter last month was a DO.

[@cb2465]

Isn't there a residency merger occuring in 2020 though?

[@ilovereborns4ever]

Yes!

[@halimaakter7388]

There is!

[@GimpGirl1]

CB Can you explain what that is?

[@krishnavamsiii1886]

Can someone explain what is this merger thing?

[@odozie4057]

@Amy D. thanks a lot

[@TheInvisibleTruth100]

I am a second year DO medical student and I do have to say that times are changing where people actually seek out osteopaths as their physicians rather than MDs. MDs represent the old school way of practicing medicine and many people have grown weary of less than satisfactory encounters with their doctors especially in the primary care fields. As DOs we are instinctively taught to use our hands to diagnose, something that you would be hard pressed to find in an MD physician. I would say we are more skilled in PE from that 500 hrs of extra practicing on each other, we already know what normal feels like on patients well before stepping into a clinic. From a patients perspective this is actually appreciated as being more thorough. We have a lot more hurdles to bypass bc we have to take both boards and we are learning an entirely separate curriculum alongside traditional medicine, but once you’re in practice, theres no such difference. I personally feel like this distinguishing label shouldn’t exist and only those who are interested in specializing in osteopathy should have to learn about it to this depth however being a DO i dont feel any less of a doctor than if I were an MD.

[@JoseFernandez-fs5cw]

I would love to see a video comparing teaching institution vs private practice medicine. Thanks for making content to consistently!

[@gwynyong]

This video gave me information of being a D.O which I’m aiming at! Thank you so much.

[@justtoolit6051]

Nam Thần this video gave you misinformation

[@gwynyong]

JustTooLit I’m collecting information and compare them so misinformation maybe useful somehow.

[@dr.g.k.chilupe9479]

Hello! I'm a rising third year medical student. This video did not do a great job at all honestly. Let me know if you have any questions!

[@gwynyong]

thank you so much.

[@ericn6440]

Let me preface by saying I'm a DO in an ACGME psychiatry residency. I would say this video is accurate. I would also say that to get into an ACGME residency it is not always necessary to take the USMLE. I'm sure this was addressed in a previous comment, but didn't feel the need to read through the barrage of hurt feelings. I would like to say that this video (along with many other videos on this channel) are very helpful to future medical students in deciding their path. Controversial or not, these videos are a great source of information and are questions I had heading into medicine as well. Thank you very much for making the path a bit more clear.

[@MedSchoolInsiders]

Thank you for keeping it real Eric

[@kemunapeace2441]

As a chronic pain patient, I can assure you that lack of osteopathic learning makes a helluva difference. My allopathic pcp was struggling to figure out what specialists to send me to because of my atypical symptom sets. While she was so much better than the other doctors because she incorporates wholistic physical science, when I began seeing her my understanding of my symptoms were greatly improved. However, she was learning from me because my research wasn't limited to what allopathy finds respectable. I was able to make connections that her training had caused to disconnect. However, when she finally referred me to a chiropractor, I finally began to experience treatments that both alleviate my pain and explore causation. Because of that, my chiropractor makes much better specialist references. She is more knowledgeable about biological system connections and helped me to pinpoint the actual problem areas. The improvements in my well being and health are clearly marked. Together with my allopathic doctor and personal research into natural form medicines, Im doing way better than any patient who took up the allopathic doctors recommendation of pain pills, because they don't know anything about preventative, nor nutritional medicine and pain pills exert the liver and kidneys with ongoing use. They don't cure anything at all. Allopathy hasn't dominated political "reputation" organically. Politics doesn't work that way.... So glad that more people aren't setting for the pills then die medicine anymore. Calling allopathy competitive while celebrating less understanding. In exactly what realm does this competition exist, but it clearly doesn't challenge medicine to do better for patients. I wish people who were pursuing healthcare just for status, money, and competition were weeded out in the education process instead of encouraged. They mess everything up.

[@RGrant2504]

This video is inaccurate in some areas. So to clarify the errata: DOs do not have to take the USMLE to enter MD residencies. Some residencies will prefer the USMLE but that is entirely based on the individual institution. The vast majority of MD residencies accept COMLEX. And, the American Medical Association (AMA) took an official stance last week that both COMLEX-USA and USMLE are both equivalent exams in assessment. It will be interesting to see what this merger brings about in terms of board exams. The DO degree won't hold you back much these days. Yes, there are some residencies that still refuse to take DOs for whatever reason. But this video makes it seem like DOs don't have options for great residencies which simply is not the case. In fact, a lot of top programs take osteopathic candidates. For example, the Mayo Clinic and the Cleveland Clinic, which are ranked as the number 1 and number 2 hospitals in the United States for 2018-2019 according to US News and World Report, both take many DOs for their residencies (and I am not talking about their small community hospital affiliates). Now obviously there are more MDs than DOs at Mayo and CC, but that's because there are far more MD schools than DO schools creating larger numbers of competitive applicants. The GPA and MCAT gap between allopathic and osteopathic medical school matriculation is closing each year. If you look at average DO schools and average MD schools, their scores are about the same. If you look at prestigious MD schools and prestigious DO schools, the difference is larger. I agree that if you want to go into a competitive specialty such as derm or plastics you may want to pursue the MD degree over the DO degree. I also agree that craniosacral therapy should be thrown out of curriculum for osteopathic schools. It is mostly taught for heritage, but it honestly has no place.

[@Spencer_Thatcher]

My DO schools average for my year was a 511 MCAT and a 3.7 GPA. It also titters between 6000 applicants each cycle and having the Top COMLEX scores for DO schools in the nation AND requires all students to sit for the USMLE step 1. Class of 2016 placed 17 people into ortho and 3 into Derm. I've never seen a year where less then 5 people matched Ortho. Why anyone would choose a subpar MD school compared to a focused DO school who thrives on getting their students into competitive residencies is beyond me

[@ms.gordon6533]

I'm not a medical student but from reading the comments and watching this video, some of you kinda don't get the true essence in being a doctor it's all about us the patients,we really don't care which school you attended and what path you choose to become a doctor as long as you care about us and make it your duty to provide the best treatment as possible. I admire doctors that really care about their patients they will go beyond to ensure the best for their patients. Too many time I visit the doctor and instead of talking to me and try to understand what is wrong with me they just want to hear my symptoms so they can just write me prescription which treat rather than cure don't get me wrong I've come across doctors that listen to me and provide the best cure they even suggest how I should take of myself so the issue do not reoccur, too much person become a doctor just for the pay and how prestigious it sounds to say you are a doctor hence why I'm happy that medical school is difficult.

[@Wiley224]

From someone who went to a DO school. Don’t go to a DO school. Find a way to go to a US MD school

[@worldsavior2543]

Why

[@johngrey1074]

@@worldsavior2543 Because it makes life way easier. DO should only be an option when US MD isn't.

[@davidausterman5915]

That is silly. If you are a good student then either is fine. If you are a good resident then it also doesn’t matter.

[@kaitlynkilpatrick36]

Please re upload with less bias and more facts/features of DO like the MERGER kthx

[@justtoolit6051]

Agreed

[@breea07]

Do you guys not realize the merger is going to hurt DO students? If DO students can’t have residencies specifically for them, it will be harder for them to get residencies when competing with all MD students.

[@endoradarling5202]

DO's tend to eschew big pharma so they are the doctors of choice for me :)

[@marcoschagas9646]

What's the difference between OMM and Chiropraxis??

[@persianprincess8945]

I don’t think this video was biased at all. Everything you stated was true, and it is always useful to know the disadvantages associated with something.. especially before applying!

[@aakashsheth8907]

Why go into DO when you are ultimately planning to join MD residences?? Why not just wait another year, get good MCAT scores and apply to MD schools? Or if you have chosen to go to a DO school, why not just stick to it and practice osteopathic medicine? Combining the two doesn’t make any sense, and the general public might be at a GREAT disadvantage considering they don’t know, in most cases, whether they are going to traditional MD doctor or a DO doctor.

[@pjbadgersuw26]

Every year you take off is another six figures of income you lose in your life. Also, most people don't know exactly what type of medicine they want to practice before going to medical school, and many of those who think they know end up changing their minds after getting some exposure.

[@jkaur0326]

The general public will be at a great disadvantage when they're being seen by a Caribbean trained doctor but that is still allowable to some extent. Osteopathic medical students get the same curriculum as MD + extra hours of OMM like he mentioned in the video. There are a great deal of DO medical students who take USMLE and COMLEX if they are seeking a MD residency. With the merger, there will be more seats available to US MD grads. With DO's taking MD residency spots, there are always unfilled DO spots which can now open up to MD students post merger. But I really hope these spots don't go to Caribbean IMG's. IMG who went to school in their native countries come from credible institutions but not Caribbean.

[@nathan_2780]

+Aakash Sheth Please don't listen to Jaspreet Kaur. This is a troubled person that I called out the other day because they feel the need to spread lies and belittle the Caribbean because he/she suffers from insecurity issues. There are 13 United States curriculum based Caribbean schools that are accredited by the WFME. This person can't do rigorous research and could have taken the MCCEE and USMLE to try to match back into their native country Canada but this person is to self absorbed. I can tell now this person is extremely uneducated and bitter because he/she is an Canadian IMG DO.

[@androtawfik5130]

I heard that some people may be biased against do in residency but it is slowly going away. In the er where I work at, the last two medical directors are do’s. Patients don’t care either if the physician is md or do and probably many don’t know/care about the difference.

[@killakel09]

I am an Osteopathic Student, OMS-III, and many of my colleagues had great MCAT scores and still chose a DO school over an MD school. That statement is so untrue. While DO schools are largely more open to students with lower scores, our schools are far from comprised of majority students with that profile. Lastly, I don't know who your friends are at DO schools that agree that Cranio-sacral Manipulation doesn't work! They are crazy! Perhaps they are the ones that never truly learned how to manipulate well.This is an extremely difficult treatment to learn, but immensely powerful and absolutely can effect the CSF of the brain even to the point of disruption of the vomiting centers (making patients throw up immediately) if not done properly. You should not be making videos about DO if you have not personally sat in our classes and manipulation lectures. Leave the dissemination of our philosophy and skill set to us. Thanks!

[@jamesmannsfield5699]

But he is right though. I mean stats are stats... No one is saying you are a bad doctor. Just that on the whole it is easier.

[@killakel09]

@@jamesmannsfield5699 no, he's not right. The stats are far from evenly distributed with majority of med students sitting for USMLE and that being the widely accepted and most known degree, but only 20% of med students taking COMLEX and the commonly accepted misconception that somehow our philosophy makes medical concepts easier. They are the same concepts, Dx and Rx plus over 300 hrs of OMM a year. Stats have to be equally comparable to be valid and these are not.

[@jamesmannsfield5699]

Kelly Scruggs Again, not saying you are a bad doctor, as the MCAT is a worthless test. But the average MCAT for DO programs is around a 504, with the schools I have heard of around a 507. Still lower than pretty much all med schools. I mean averages and means, are averages and means. Also while I have heard of the 520 DO student who turned down a full ride to Harvard for AT STill, I have never actually met that person in life. In the end it’s fine, we all match at the same programs, and I think the video did a great job trying to objectively say what we all already know with data. AS far as OMM goes, I’ll look into it more, but I have personally never seen a DO utilize it.

[@jamesmannsfield5699]

@@davidausterman5915 Getting into MD school is still harder than getting into DO school. The training aside from clinical rotation is very similar.

[@davidausterman5915]

@@jamesmannsfield5699 *"aside from clinical rotation* is very similar." Have you been *through* either medical school to even know what either of the clinical rotations involve? Just asking. Also, can you enlighten me the same way on residencies?

[@ladygrace7585]

I would be fine going to DO school if it came to that, but I just don't believe in the body manipulation stuff. But I would never be against being treated by a DO

[@AmyStylinson]

I don't really see how manipulation is not legit. Isn't it similar to chiropractic work?

[@micahshook6422]

Osteopathic manipulation is legit. Where many fail is in their explanation of the mechanisms by which they work. Also, we use techniques that are scientifically proven to speed recovery and reduce pain. Some of our techniques overlap with physical therapists and chiropractors, but that doesn't mean we use all of the same techniques... just some. In addition, we (at least, most of us) know when to use them. This is most important. As a physician, you must know when a treatment is indicated. Those that lose sight of this hurt the rest of us. Unfortunately, it happens... but, it happens with MD's too. Why do you think the opiod epidemic is so bad? Clearly someone wrote all those inappropriate prescriptions, and they weren't all DO's.

[@Zodayer]

@@micahshook6422 excellent comment.

[@Asyouart]

Any time anybody immediately dismissed another practice? You have to suspect their motives.

[@Cbabyperk]

Interesting. One of my ortho surgeons is a DO... maybe it depends where you’re from

[@tayya7371]

When l had my sciatica the only person who could help me was a highly skilled osteopath but when my sciatica came back 2 years later his and other treatments wasn t helpful . Desperatly l went to a Reiki treatment and the person made it desapear with one treatment . So it would be nice to be respectful to others with their treatment modalities like the Craniosacral therapy that you think it is a Craquery

[@OmarAbdulMalikDHEdMPASPACPAPro]

Peace be to you! Thanks you so much for sharing this with us! I've been a medically licensed Physician Assistant for twenty years. I've always worked with the underserved in adult primary care medicine. I earned a Doctorate of Health Education from A.T. Still University and was fascinated with Dr.Still's background and paradigms! There is a PA-to-DO program at Lake Erire College of Osteopathic Medicine that is 3 years. I think it is a great opportunity for experienced PA s who would like to become Physicians.

[@jlove4eva1234]

If medicine want to succeed. They should do what dental did make dds and dmd equal degrees and require foreign med students to enroll in an academic program to work in the US. Because dividing DO and MD is what led to the rise of Mid level creep.. and putting md and dos on a hierarchy doesn't benefit the profession. the reality of the situation is it much cheaper to hire more nps then a physician . And with rising autonomy it better for America to eliminate this my md degree is better than the other.

[@EH_888]

I am choosing the D.O. route, but certainly not because I am not competitive student. Rather, their approach to medicine appeals to me the most. However, I do not believe that all disease stems from a defect in the musculoskeletal system. Treating patients holistically is what draws me to osteopathic medicine.

[@MisterTutor2010]

What does a DO DO? :) Being serious my impression of the MD vs. DO is that it doesn't make much of a practical difference to the average patient. It seems like the DDS vs DMD comparison.

[@sherimalik5026]

Make video for usmle step 2 like you did for step 1. Also make vlogs on your vlog channel. Love your videos :)

[@rakibrana1126]

European osteopath i means NUMSS Do is a medical doctors but he can't prescribed medicine and surgery but also work hand

[@brantonjarrah8271]

As a D.O., I have never in any way felt disadvantaged by my Osteopathic Medical degree. I graduated from PCOM and trained at a highly competitive Internal Medicine residency program. My training in OMM has been a great advantage and I am frequently sought out by my M.D. cohorts to perform spinal manipulation therapy. I was accepted into both M.D. and D.O. programs and chose PCOM as I was highly impressed by the school and student body. Today, D.O. schools are more competitive then M.D. programs - do the research. If you want to be a physician, don't limit your choices based on antiquated beliefs.

[@tde2019]

There are a number of state and HBC MD schools that have average entrance stats lower than/on par with the more established and respected DO schools....

[@jamesandonian7829]

This video is biased towards DO

[@davidausterman5915]

Back when anesthesiology residencies became very competitive to get into again, we had a proportional number of DOs and MDs getting into my allopathic residency. So, some of this information isn't accurate regarding residency acceptance. Plus, this video is 3 years old now. I only took the COMLEX and was readily accepted into an allopathic residency. I also question the MCAT/GPA subject here. Don't let this video scare you away from applying Osteopathic. I have been there and done it.

[@blackheartgaming6121]

The initials of both are their name sakes backwards MD is a Doctor of Medicine and a DO is an Osteopathic Doctor lol

[@alexvdubb]

Respect to all real honest doctors but are people who don't understand all this just suppose to just trust doctors and understand all this stuff? This is a lot of stuff I didn't know before. How do we make this easier to digest for more every day people?

[@taylordickey3976]

Dang, he just took a huge dump on DO programs. "DO programs suck - that's just the reality, not my opinion." Ok..

[@jayrollo1352]

Thanks Taylor. Go get it!!!!!! Whew!

[@SoCalBrian]

Why are DOs not nice medical professionals compared to MDs?

[@sawayakichizuru6667]

Can you make a video about IMGs too?

[@GabrielSilva-ot9yi]

I laughed so hard at 1:56 „Sike“

[@niahslife340]

I’m thinking more DO school 🥼✨

[@halimaakter7388]

Hi Med School Insiders, I just wanted to say thank you for all of your great and informative videos, however this video is extremely bias and is filled with misinformation. I don't think it is your intent to try to smear DOs however, this just comes out as you being misinformed. I go to an MD medical school, but both of my older siblings go to a DO medical school, and I have personally talked to people from both the MD and DO sides. I attend the same institution as my siblings (A school that has both MD and DO schools, but I go to the MD school, whereas my siblings both go to the DO school for that university) I think that you also bring up many good points, as well. I'm probably not 100% correct here but this is what I have gathered: 1. MDs and DOs both have identical curriculum and competitiveness, in terms of how hard the courses are. My siblings and I have near identical work. But DO schools of course teach their students OMM. 2. OMM have many great features to it especially MSK treatment, but some of it is just propaganda to show that MDs and DOs are different. Both of my siblings have said that they will not use it in their practice (unless its for MSK purposes). 3. I think when you come at DOs for having lower GPA and MCAT standards, and lower standards in the COMPLEX, however you fail to give any numbers or statistics behind it. The people looking at this video will think that getting into a DO school is a joke or something, when I can tell you that it is not. Many DO schools are rising in competitiveness and the GPA standards are much higher than they were 10-20 years ago, as well as the MCAT scores. Some of the top DO schools such as, PCOM, Rowan, NYITCOM, MSUCOM, DMU, KCU, KCOM... etc have average GPAs of 3.5 with many of them even going up to 3.6-3.7 range (God damn Rowan lol.) The MCAT score is however generally substantially lower than MD school's standard, but it isn't something to laugh at. The other requirements such as volunteer work, research, letter of recs and shadowing are basically identical. DO schools also dropped their grade replacement policy a couple years ago, which makes them much harder to get into now. Again although you come out as bias, I don't think it was your intent to mislead anyone here. Just know that many MDs who have no clue about what DOs do (older MDs most likely since the newer MDs for the most part know) will take your statements as fact and try to bring down DOs, which I don't think is fair. 4. With the merger coming soon, the DO stigma will get dropped, trust me. I honestly wasn't fond of the merger but its coming, and MDs and DOs will be basically working together as one. This also means that DO students will be able to match into competitive specialties, more often. Even currently, many of them match into competitive specialties. Your primary care statement, isn't only for DOs, but many MDs go into it too. My oldest sibling matched into an Orthopedic residency, which is highly competitive but not out of range for DOs. Look at the matchlists for several DO schools that are well known, and you'll see that many of them match into competitive specialties such as, Ortho, Ophthalmology, Radiology... etc. I do agree that Plastics, Derm and ENT are incredibly tough to match into as a DO, but I feel like with the merger, the gap will be closing soon. 5. Honestly I feel like they both are the same, at the end of the day. One of my mentors as a pre-med was an Osteopathic Ophthalmologist, so I also have a different view point than most MDs do. Continue your great work man! I love your videos!

[@jkaur0326]

a hal- Yup! Agree with you. When I matriculated into DO school in 2012, my stats were MCAT 29 and GPA 3.6 with a thesis published in undergrad. I know for sure there were students accepted into MD schools with lower MCAT and lower GPA scores. We know getting into US medical school is more than just numbers. Unlike Caribbean schools who don't even care about the numbers, it's a money making racket. I was an international student so things were a bit complicated but I had a friend who also graduated with honors so GPA definitely > 3.5 and her MCAT was 30 but couldn't get into a California medical school. She is now at Cleveland Clinic doing her residency. We both agreed we would have never went to Caribbean schools because their credibility is questionable. On clinical rotations, one of my site had Caribbean medical students and unfortunately, they were sub-par in comparison. Nice folks but shaky in skills and knowledge base. I did feel bad for them because from what they told me sometimes professors wouldn't even show up to lectures. No preparation before going out to clinical rotations. But at the same time, I thought this is what happens when you take the easy route.

[@nathan_2780]

+Jaspreet Kaur So ironic to hear DOs opinions on Caribbean MDs and the other way around. When in reality DOs like yourself are the ones who took the easy way out because your a DO.....not an MD. Your mistaken because getting into a Caribbean medical school may be a lot easier, however getting out is twice as hard as a U.S. school and you have to make a lot more sacrifices. (It's how you finish not where you start) At the end of the day the people who made and will make sacrifices to get their medical education over seas at accredited medical schools to come back to the United States for their MD and get licensed are a lot more respected in the "medical community" than DO's. So keep telling yourself that to make yourself feel better because the whole medical community knows DOs like yourself never really wanted the MD or to study allopathic medicine or you would have made sacrifices for it and you didn't so therefore you will always be a DO.

[@jkaur0326]

+ N.R. Lombardi- Haha...I am really sorry you feel that way because you're one of those that get caught up in the initials. When I chose to make the decision of matriculation, a good and solid medical education was a lot more important to me than obtaining a MD from a school with questionable credibility ex: Caribbean. The reason a lot of students 'don't make it' doesn't speak highly of the school nor the education they are offering. I am sorry that you're also delusional about the fact that US medical graduates have it easy and that we don't have to make sacrifices. We don't have the luxury to take months-years to prepare for board exams, we are answerable to our schools and our curriculum is rigourous. I am not sure what sacrifices you're talking about. I am speaking from my experiences from rotations where most Caribbean students were not well prepared and it was quite obvious. The attendings nor the residents respected them, when they say CMS and roll their eyes...eek. IMG's who went to their native countries for medical education are definitely respected because they went to credible medical schools and worked hard to matriculate unlike Caribbean schools. There is a reason why medical school entrance is so difficult worldwide because only the hard working, dedicated and committed individuals should get in. Yes! once the small fraction of Caribbean students get licensed, their patients don't know the difference unless they ask the physician or research them online. But, why take the easy route in the beginning, why not just improve yourself as a candidate and apply to US medical schools especially if your nationality is American which most Caribbean students are.

[@nathan_2780]

+Jaspreet Kaur. I am a Canadian so getting into medical school in my native country is a lot harder than you Americans and I'm sorry your insecure and can't do rigorous research. Fist off you start of your paragraph by saying "Haha.... which implies your salty because I am stating facts. You than begin to say I got caught up in the initials but I clearly said in my initial response you never wanted to study allopathic medicine in the first place hence the word "allopathic," therefore you would never become an MD. So instead of twisting my words and lying, learn how to interpret a basic sentence DO, lol. Also you said I'd rather get a good and solid education over a Carib MD which implies you can't do rigorous research. There are 13 Caribbean medical schools that follow United States basic science education and therefore are accredited and recognised by the WFME. (World Federation for Medical Education) You didn't know this because you couldn't do rigorous research on Caribbean medical schools when you got rejected from U.S. allopathic programs and chose the "real" easy way out, to become a DO. Another reason why you are extremely uneducated and biased is because you said there is a reason they "don't make it." It's called the person was stupid and lacked time management skills to begin with and never had it in them to become a medical doctor from the first day. Blaming the school and the curriculum is the easy way out, isn't that right DO? Than you go on to say that U.S. grads don't make sacrifices. Of course they do, it's just that Carib grads make more. For example, they have to travel back and forth between the U.S. and which ever country they are studying, which equates to more money. They have to work harder when it comes to landing a residency by applying to hundreds of programs, which again equates to more money being spent. Also the majority of the Caribbean medical school curriculum is a tri-semester so no Summer semester off.....and you want to talk about rigorous, lmfao. Your nothing but a typical, stupid and biased American DO who never had what it took to get into an allopathic medicine program and earn your MD.

[@jkaur0326]

N.R. Lombardi- FYI- I am a Canadian Citizen and I am well aware of how difficult it is to get into medical school in Canada hence I chose osteopathic. I could have waited a year and re-applied but I didn't want to waste a year which you shall interpret as being lazy. Like I have stated previously, Caribbean schools who have no standards for matriculation just can't be respected. If you know "stupid people" are getting in, why are they getting in? During my minimal research on Caribbean schools, I found it comical that students can begin medical school during any semester (tri-semester), what credibility do the courses hold? How does anatomy lab work? I deliberately kept my research minimal because their match data and step scores were not at all impressible. My osteopathic school had a 99% match rate. US med students only get one summer break between MS 1 and MS 2. I know Caribbeans would take 6 months off to study for boards because I have worked with them or they would do a 5 year program. I have heard that lectures on the island were a joke with professors showing up late or sometimes not showing up something my osteopathic medical school wouldn't tolerate. Look at the pass rate of DO's taking USMLE their first time and then compare that to IMG's. In 2014 and 2015, USMLE Step 1 first-time pass rate for Allopathic was 96%, Osteopathic was 93%, IMG was 78%. Unfortuantely, the IMG data also includes brilliant and hardworking students from other countries that worked very hard to secure a spot in their native countries. I anticipate if they further stratified the data, the Caribbean students would have horrendous figures. Traveling back and forth is a sacrifice? US medical schools cost money too and if that's the sacrifice you're talking about then we make many more sacrifices to get into medical school. We actually worked hard in undergrad securing a good GPA, did volunteer work, research, studied with dedication for the MCAT to deserve our spot. Please don't tell me you didn't realize that these schools were after your money during your research so please don't complain about the cost of your medical education. You keep repeating that we don't practice allopathic medicine but I don't think you understand what an Osteopath is. It's studying the same curriculum as Allopaths but an additional 400-500 hours of osteopathic medicine. Some subsections are questionable like he mentions about cranial-sacral. However, the school never sugar coats when they teach. They come forth with what techniques are evidence based and ones that lack evidence. At the end of the day, I view those extra 500 lab hours of my osteopathic medical education as a medium for improving my palpatory and physical exam skills. For instance, when I performed my first LP as MS 4, I was very confident with my anatomical landmarks which was recognized by my attending. "Oh yah, you're a DO, I don't need to show you" - I didn't view that statement as an insult. The man who started osteopathic medicine was an MD himself. During the Flexner report, many natural/homeopathic and even some allopathic medical schools were shut down, however Osteopathic medical school remained open. We have been granted full privileges and rights to practice alongside our MD counterparts for over a century and have been training alongside them. With the merger, there is greater integration in training and now MD's can apply for those unfilled DO GME spots which is great. Sad part is with the merger, some lazy Caribbean students might be applying for those GME spots that were secured by my hardworking Osteopathic alumni. I will not be wasting any more time to reply back to you but I thought I should inform you a little about DO's and osteopathic medicine. We don't think we are better than MD's nor do we think we are sub-par. We know we bring solid physical exam skills with our additional hours spent palpating the body. Time we could have spent relaxing on an island but didn't think it was worthwhile.

[@ashleyallen8094]

I plan on applying to both MD and DO schools, but bc I'm considering Ortho/Sports Med, I'm interesting in OMM. Based on your knowledge, would DO be a better option?

[@johngrey1074]

Orthopedic surgery residency is easier to match into as an MD, though it's still very competitive. Sports medicine, on the other hand, is a fellowship after family medicine residency, and it's completely doable for a DO.

[@avisiktachakraborty3438]

Parts of body's...skull treatment....

[@Saveren_]

What about those MD schools with lower requirements for admissions?

[@davidsoto4394]

Please do a video that compares the career of lawyer vs doctor.

[@smokingjazz5067]

Don't write off so easily cranio sacral technique! I had it done,! Is great !

[@kevindaley2943]

OMT saved my life. It also destroyed my life.

[@naidhruvananthiyer5723]

How

[@Velianna]

First time I hear about osteopathic doctors... Must be some US thing. I thought osteopathy is some alternative medicine quackery before this video.

[@johngrey1074]

It is only a US thing. Most of osteopathy is alternative medicine quackery... but Doctors of Osteopathy in the US are licensed physician with full medical education and training, and most D.O.'s don't use osteopathic techniques in their practices.

[@bruceylee8670]

MD>DO always

[@bruceylee8670]

DO = MD rejects

[@kateking6078]

Would a pulmonologist do best with MD or DO?

[@johngrey1074]

There are pulmonologists with MD degrees and pulmonologists with DO degrees. You can become a pulmonologist with either degree. You would graduate with your MD or DO, then complete an internal medicine residency, and then do a pulmonology/critical care fellowship.

[@AJ-ul1lt]

The gpa is really not that different a 77% (3.3gpa) is not far from an 80% (3.67 gpa). At least at my school.

[@MedSchoolInsiders]

3.3 and 3.67 is very different

[@bodypillow3800]

Ni Na Pushing 3.67 in my eyes is a wonderful achievement it takes effort to maintain such a GPA. However a 3.3 is quite easy to maintain.... not much effort needed there

[@hritvikjain__3594]

@@MedSchoolInsiders agreed.

[@AhmedElsayed-vg1ti]

can Md doctor study omt and practise it without entering DO school i googled it and didnt find specfic answer

[@shirleytrenche7852]

Hi! I’m actually a medical student at a DO school. No, MD’s cannot practice OMM (even if they learn it on their own) since they are not licensed to practice it.

[@h.d.mcconaha5452]

Yes, MDs can learn and practice OMM. Some MDs have pursued post-graduate training in osteopathic neuromusculoskeletal medicine after better understanding its usefulness. For those unwilling to invest in an extra fellowship and board certification process, there are a plethora of conferences available that focus on developing proficiency in certain osteopathic techniques. A medical license allows a physician to legally practice the entire breadth of medicine and surgery in the United States--this includes OMM.

[@LetsG0Champ]

Quick answer. G.P.A.

[@royjohnson9043]

You basically shat on all the hard work DO students went through to become a DO.

[@lalalaland580]

I M D. O.

[@macgyverman9847]

I love your channel, and watch all the videos, but this time you came off as arrogant and tribal. I appreciate the video, but even the inflections in your voice were telling. Keep them coming, but don't project such bias so much please.

[@DrDreams23]

MacGyverman man i totally agree. Thank you for saying it.

[@justtoolit6051]

Agreed. He came out biased in this video and I don’t see why MDs and DOs can’t just get along

[@macgyverman9847]

JustTooLit he's a smart guy. However he's out of phase on this topic. It is clear he attempts to reign in some of his contempt, and offers DO as an option for a more second rate but still necessary practice. There are deficiencies on both sides, and in the 24th century doctors are gong to look back and marvel at how we survived the medieval practices of today. There is good work being done with each of these. One example would be manipulation under anesthesia. It helps break up scar tissue without conscious resistance to the pain of the stretches. One might call chemotherapy quackery as it's even on the risk of side effects to cause what it purports to do. There are many paths to the golden city on the hill, but we're bloody far from it right now. We need to learn from and balance each other maximizing our strengths and minimizing our weaknesses together. Dr. J is a clever guy and likely knows that everyone has the potential to teach another something they don't know.

[@justtoolit6051]

MacGyverman I agree 100%. I feel like he’s misinformed and made this video without understanding what a DO is. DOs are just as capable as MDs.

[@droid264]

Thanks that was very clear and concise...i always wondered what the difference was...kinda knew but ot quite...👍

[@justtoolit6051]

droid264 this video was fake news man. Wasn’t concise at all and was bias

[@hritvikjain__3594]

@@justtoolit6051 it was facts brother

[@Reloadeez]

I could care less, they both are physicians, now if I see fmg I run for the hills.

[@okayok9810]

How dare you put down other degree ? if you are a true life saver you should not say something about other people;s profession! what respect are you talking about? both degrees requires competitiveness from Medical students, D.O and M.D are the same in any angles!the curriculum itself speaks for itself so you should know the reality! D.O are better because they not only treat patients but they also treat the body and mind that M.Ds doent know how! so I see professional jealousy here! Pls delete this video of yours because D.Os are really laughing at you so hard right now because of ignorance and jealousy. If your issue is low grade MCAT in DO degree that is not your problem anymore its just the strategy of DO schools to attract students afterl all medical schools are for profit and needs to survive same way with MD schools, I know many get into MD schools with low grades but they are now doctors too.

[@christopherliu7604]

I scored a 518 on the MCAT and am currently matriculated in a DO program close to home out west. If I had the option to reapply to medical schools, would I have chosen to apply to an MD school out in the mid-west or east coast where I don't have a well-established support network? Maybe. And am I confident that I could study just as well if not better, academically, than most MD students. Probably. But I think at the end of the day, if you're willing to put the work in to crush the USMLE (i.e. > 260) and COMLEX and achieve honors on your clinical rotations, nothing can stop you from matching into competitive specialties anywhere. Nobody, both within and outside the medical profession, will question your integrity, knowledge, expertise, or standing (whatever that means) when you can show a track-record of acing your boards and clinical skill exams come time to apply for residency.

[@darkwraithknyack126]

I had an ambulance driver trying to pass on medical advice as "the advice of a doctor" and everyone agreed with him saying : he's practically a full on doctor. (It was online and his name was scyomedic Because he said he studied medicine for his back issue and that this gave him extensive medical experience) what's your thought on this? Is he valid or is he just egotistical

[@pershymiem4609]

Fact: "DO students are amazing & intelligent people, as my daughter was ACCEPTED in a KNOWN Medical School (MD) in Texas, and still CHOSE the DO school (also in Texas), as it is COVER more than just allophatic medicine, as OSTEOPHATIC medicine ADDED more studies about the body, that includes even spirit" So, PLEASE STOP with NON SENSE and WRONG informations! Have a great day to y'all!

[@dragonfly8485]

One or two or a few anecdotal example and story doesn't make DOs and DO applicants as smart as MD applicants. There are certainly differences between the two applicant pools.

[@ahmedkhattab2464]

After making it through a Caribbean med school and currently working as an attending, I have to say I’m grateful I pursued that route and didn’t go to a DO school. I’m assuming the initial hill would have been slightly easier with the DO route but at this point Im grateful to have an MD after my name rather than a DO. I work with some DOs and the worst feeling is when the patients get upset that their doctor has a DO after their name and they have no idea what that is.

[@johngrey1074]

I've heard numerous patient complaints about the fact that their doctor went to a Caribbean school. "I looked my doc up online, and he didn't even go to school in this country!" Of course, they complain behind your back, so you wrongly think DOs get the brunt of it.

[@alljpark6345]

Well said, John Grey. I wouldn’t go to a doctor who went to a Caribbean school which has far less stats than a DO school.

[@Hisloyalservantslistenlove613c]

Abrahamic religions

[@mcmjr405]

Have you experienced craniosacral therapy? Dismissing it as quackery without having had it is ignorance at best.

[@ropro9817]

It's quackery, just like chiropractors.

[@mcmjr405]

ro pro how much experience do you have with either chiropractic or cst?

[@ExhalatiBreat]

Have you ever been to a fortune teller? If not, does it mean that fortune tellers could be true just because you never experienced their thing yourself? Or are they bollocks because they are and because not every single piece of bullshit that some people come up with needs a personal account from every each and one of us? I believe you have a nice story of you or your loved one going through that treatment and feeling well afterwards. That's good. But do you really feel comfortable with endorsing something that has at least one fraction of a doubt that this practise does? Do you?

[@ropro9817]

Ed Exhalati well said. The common thread amongst all quackery is that it is based on nothing more than personal anecdotes and warm and fuzzy feelings. Show me evidence based science and I'll consider it.

[@ropro9817]

Higher-self Enough to know that it's quackery and a waste of money. (Yes, I've tried both, more than once, unfortunately)

[@thewyattt9668]

Lol I like how he pointed out DOs having lower admission standards yet a crap ton of people go abroad for their MDs where all they need to be able to do to get accepted is sign a paycheck. I understand what he was trying to do with this vid, but it wasn't executed properly. You offended a lot of people

[@nathan_2780]

+declan wyattt. Getting in may be easier abroad.....but getting out is twice as hard. As low as 51% match rate for IMGs. So as of 2023 you must graduate from a United States recognised international medical school accredited by the WFME. (World Federation for Medical Education) I'd rather get an U.S. accredited MD abroad and work my ass off to land a residency in the U.S. than settle for a DO. To each their own, of course.

[@SunilKThapa]

D.O.sounds like you get more from investing less compared to MD.......

[@TheBestMovieAlive]

So DO is basically the scientific term for Chiropractor? I will choose MD, thanks.

[@johngrey1074]

No. DO is a degree that is equivalent to an MD in the US. A vast majority of DOs practice medicine in the same way that MDs do, and there is no meaningful distinction between them.

[@agendi3160]

MD is more respected than DO. While I completely agree that it is true. Making this statement after saying that the curriculum is the SAME is just not wise. Imagine I say, if you are an MD WHITE doctor you will be much more respected than any INDIAN MD doctor with the SAME EXACT qualification. THIS IS TRUE but we shouldn't go with the flow saying this as doctors especially if they are having the same rights practicing medicine in the US and they are both following the standard quality of care. Other than this statement, everything else you said is true, fair and wisely said.

[@ChristopherWalkenPUA]

I know 3 people who couldn't get into Med school so they applied to DO school. They all got into DO school. I think that's one reason why DO's are looked down upon, pretty much everyone is accepted just like a Chiropractor school.

[@caralooney3083]

Lol you have no idea what you’re talking about. Literally. Acceptance rate is is as low as 4% for most schools. Do your research and try again.

[@emilylindwall2016]

Md for neuro surgeon

[@MylesMowery]

DO here that matched interventional radiology. For anybody watching this in 2021, I think this is a pretty solid, transparent comparison that is generally true, even now (3 years later.) And while not many DOs match things like plastics, derm, ortho, etc. it does happen every year & the numbers have been growing since the merger. In fairness though, not many MDs match those either; they are very competitive! I think there is still some residual bias, in particular maybe at upper-tier places, but it seems to be getting a lot better. For reference, In my graduating class alone this year, we had 3 IR matches, 1 derm, a couple ortho, 1 vascular, 1 ENT, a couple urology & other great matches at upper-tier places in EM & IM. I can speak from personal experience too that I interviewed at some pretty great programs in the T25 or so for DR (I applied IR & DR.) I think about 80% of our class matched residency programs that were originally ACGME accredited too (even pre-merger this number I think was about 75%.) Like anything, there is a spectrum with respect to entrance scores (some DO schools have averages right up there with average MD schools, some less.) My schools’ averages are right up there with the averages of average MD schools. With respect to board exams, my school actually outperforms the other MD schools in our region with respect to Step 1 & Step 2CK average scores & we have had about 1/3 of students sit for both COMLEX & STEP. And for the OMM stuff... the techniques that overlap with PT/OT I think are great & work excellently. I agree 100% that the craniosacral stuff absolutely has to go. I think OMM overall would be more respected if we just tossed that. Even professors seem aware that it is an outdated teaching with no scientific basis. Outside of that it’s pretty useful & can at least help patients feel a bit better when they walk out the door, ya know? I don’t plan on using it personally beyond with friends/family with minor aches/pains but it is useful for that type of stuff. But ya! DO schools - at least mine - do a good job at finding people who didn’t know what they originally wanted to do when they entered college & have all sorts of interesting back stories (e.g. I was in a small touring metal band for a few years & didn’t really try very hard when I first got to college.) They look for people who absolutely have the intelligence to be in medical school but found their passion late in the game. I think this is at least one of the reasons the stats are lower at DO schools overall (another big one being newer DO schools taking lower stat applicants too of course.) If anybody has any more questions or anything I’d be happy to help answer some. Feel free to DM! I think MedSchooInsiders did a solid job though like I said above. Just wanted to add some anecdotal info from my experience & maybe add more context to the current (2021) state of things.

[@kushalnellore1588]

Hey, I recently got into a DO school. I want to match into DR, but I've also been thinking about IR. What do I need to do to stand out and match even if I do attend a DO school.

[@kingtrevi]

i know this is late but what DO program did you attend? i live in texas so i’m looking at TCOM UIWSOM and SHSU, two relatively newer programs so a little scared it might be difficult matching into IR

[@alex47927]

What DO programs have the best USMLE scores?

[@MylesMowery]

@@kushalnellore1588 an overall balanced app is the best app. Solid scores, grades, preceptor assessments, maybe a little research. Never forget your hobbies. Have a life outside of medicine & let it show on you app a bit. 75% of my interview questions were about my music background.

[@MylesMowery]

@@kingtrevi the school you attend doesn’t matter a lot, it’s your application that matters. You can build a strong application at any school you attend. Anecdotally, this isn’t really something that’s ever talked about in the rank meetings I’ve been a part of (for both diagnostic & interventional where I am). You could argue that older schools have a larger alumni network though which can help get you connected to programs you’re interested in if an alumnus is a resident or attending there though.

[@andrewtaylorstill4452]

As the founder of osteopathic medicine, I never taught cranio-sacral therapy. Ya'll have to ask Dr. Sutherland about that one.

[@andrewtaylorstill4452]

@@johncook2820 OMM has sustained me through all these years. I am now but a therapeutic pulse, flowing through the fascia of the internet.

[@shelleymybelly]

:D

[@mik9578]

😭😭😭

[@gmed123]

Glad to meet u here Dr. Taylor... am really honored

[@kevinyishawu2906]

Dudee😂... I can't believe you ran off to create this account just to question who found Craniosacral therapy. Can't believe some of y'all are falling for it too. I mean come on the video said the practice was founded in 1874.. That's like 148years ago😂. And Mr. Andrew Taylor still would probably have to be more older than that

[@darsh4960]

that smile from the beginning is haunting

[@justtoolit6051]

Both MD Doctors and DO Doctors are great. Osteopathic Medical students are going into tough residencies and with the merger between MD and DO residencies soon, there will be less of a gap. Both take tremendous time, studying and effort to become. I know DO students who have gone into tough residencies such as, General surgery, Orthopedic surgery, Radiology, Ophthalmology and much more.

[@marclindblom9562]

The 2 best Physicians I’ve been associated with have been DO’S

[@theboldengroup7369]

Facts...it is simply a new versus old rule of thought

[@ablondyne]

As a patient, I agree.

[@Priyanka.Aarya77]

I agree. I know surgeons who are DOs. My obgyn who delivered my babies was a DO. All doctors. Same education and training as MDs but more of a holistic approach which is what modern medicine needs imo. All provided excellent care. The ER doctor who take care of my daughter last month was a DO.

[@ritahancockmd6673]

A word of encouragement to the DO students out there....and a word of CORRECTION to those who bash craniosacral manipulation: I am a non-surgical musculoskeletal specialist MD, Cornell undergrad, SUNY Buffalo med school, Baylor for Medicine, then UT Southwestern Med School for PM&R, board certified in PM&R with sub-specialty board certification in Pain Medicine, and I assure you that OMM (including craniosacral manipulation) can be extraordinarily useful tools in pain management. I have been out of MD residency for 21 years, and, in the past twelve years, I have had 800 hours of training in OMM (including craniosacral), taught by DOs and by PTs who learned OMM from DOs. As a PM&R doctor, every work day of my career has involved my assessing the neuromuscular and musculoskeletal systems of my patients in some capacity. I have done over 7000 electrodiagnostic tests ("EMGs"), countless epidurals and other interventional pain management, procedures, a few hundred thousand trigger point injections, and I spend about 60% of my time doing OMM on patients. So trust me, because I know a LOT more about the validity of OMM and craniosacral manipulation than does the MD plastic surgeon who narrated this video: DOs can be great doctors who change lives. If you go to DO school, please take your OMM training seriously. Especially with the narcotic crisis, we need more docs who can heal people with their hands instead of prescribing addictive drugs. Now, go out there and change the world for the better.

[@thunderlips83748]

Can you provide any research from a respected journal that shows OMM and specifically craniosacral manipulation works? I have no issue with OMM if people can show me the data but often it's n=1 or not a true scientific study.

[@chonghunyi]

Great sharing of knowledge. Thank you, doctor. One question:. My son is starting do schooling this year. One of specialty of interest is pm+r. Is there a site or book about this specialty you know of? So, he can be better informed before the time to match. Thank you.

[@killakel09]

Thank you for adding your expert advice to this demeaning and largely incorrect video. I am a DO student very interested in OMM in OB patients. But this video is so full of nonsense from someone who clearly knows nothing about what true OMT is and can do. I truly appreciate your real life experience being shared on this post!

[@jodipencek5680]

Would love to hear your thoughts about going the PA route.

[@MedSchoolInsiders]

It’s coming

[@nathanieljackson8951]

Thank god! your facts and video’s really opened my eyes compared to any stats or advice I’ve been given elsewhere.

[@lth1228]

I am a PA and have been practicing for 12 years. I am considering going the DO route.

[@AfroMedic]

@@lth1228 Hi, I just applied to PA school, but I have always wanted to do Orthopedic surgery. I’m thinking of doing Med school after PA school since now the MCAT is very hard for me. Even with my 3.82 GPA

[@seraphinemoncada5371]

I think it also has to do with how little known DO's actually are! I had no idea they existed until just 3 years ago, and I'm almost 23 and pre-med!

[@aprilfeatherkile9252]

I am 72 and was delivered by an osteopath. I volunteered in an Osteopathic hospital. As a student nurse I attended a hospital program. Never saw the difference except the osteopaths were great with necks and backs. I had the feeling that the DOs were looked down on by the MDs. Once I got into the Navy---no difference. I had no idea who did what. The specialty residencies were no different for anyone. I guess I am still partial to the DOs because of orthopedic needs

[@Priyanka.Aarya77]

That is changing. I see more and more DOs at hospitals. I prefer them over MDs quite frankly because their approach is more holistic. I know surgeons who are DOs. My obgyn who delivered my babies was a DO. All doctors. Same education and training as MDs but more of a holistic approach which is what modern medicine needs imo. All provided excellent care. The ER doctor who take care of my daughter last month was a DO.

[@jayrollo1352]

All ya'll haters need to chill. Jubal is just spiting facts.

[@Jesse-fd5bv]

ok but he do be spitting fax doe

[@SH.17]

EXACTLY

[@carter5548]

DOs also have a slightly different philosophy with a more holistic approach to medicine. They also seem to be more non trad friendly.

[@theywalkinguptoyouand4060]

Yep. Unfortunately, medicine isn't a philosophy, it's a science.

[@dr.pakalupapito6015]

@@theywalkinguptoyouand4060 But the philosophy led to many systemic changes within the science of diagnosis. Thoughts matter.

[@QuranwithRain]

@@theywalkinguptoyouand4060 But a person isn’t just science. You have to remember, you’re treating a human being, not a disease.

[@1polonium210]

I trust DOs more than MDs for primary care.

[@alexism7800]

@@theywalkinguptoyouand4060 Medicine is holistic. Allostatic load, lifestyle, and overall wellness should be taken into consideration when evaluating health and the MD approach is far too focused on treating observable symptoms instead of creating the root causes of illness

[@EstherJHKim]

I'm currently going to a DO school, and there is more to OMM than mentioned in the video. Although the thought process behind applying pressure to the skull changing the CSF circulation sounds very absurd, OMM is great for MSK issues like back pain. It's not just cranial. Also, if you look at most sports med doctors (even in the professional league), I would say a good amount is DO (not sure of the exact number). (Also, not all schools teach cranial OMM because it takes a lot of experience to master it apparently) I wouldn't use OMM in my practice to help someone with a lung carcinoma, but if I encounter a pt with back pain or shoulder pain, OMM is a great way to alleviate the pain. I'm not trying to bash on this channel. I'm actually a huge supporter but just wanted to clarify.

[@mcmjr405]

EstherJHKim there’s a place for both approaches.

[@omerfawadrauf7369]

Very well said. The best thing about OMM is the simple and basic things that can provide immediate relief to almost everyone.

[@mcmjr405]

EstherJHKim OMM is very similar to chiropractic. They both were developed around the same time. Though every ancient advanced civilization has had comparable practitioners from back walkers to the bone setters of the Aztecs and Mayan people. Even Chinese medicine uses practices like acupuncture.

[@johnhogue9402]

Med School Insiders it doesn’t seem that you understood her comment. She was saying that, while the original explanation of craniosacral therapy might be ridiculous, it can still be effective at relieving pain. You seem to be rejecting the therapy based on how people explain it, which is a silly reason to reject something. Even if the only reason it helps someone is because it’s relaxing, it can still be useful.

[@johnhogue9402]

Michael - honestly, not a whole lot. The approach is a little different, the way they asses the patient is a little different, and the way they think about it are different, but they do many of the same things using similar techniques.

[@HarpreetSingh-tt3io]

You didn't mention the merger

[@halimaakter7388]

Pretty surprised he left that one out because it's perhaps the most important detail of the MD vs DO debate.

[@justtoolit6051]

he conveniently left it out

[@justtoolit6051]

Unless you're from the future, its too early to tell.

[@holyknight9507]

He talks about it in his most recent video so go check it out

[@amydieca4]

JustTooLit hi! im from the future! and it happened. he still should’ve mentioned it as a possibility in the future. he has a very obvious personal bias, but the objective points he makes are good to make your own decisions

[@DrDreams23]

In 2020 there will be no DO or MD residencies. They will be applying to the same residencies. All physicians MD or DO will be applying for the same residencies that will be under the AGME. Also, both MDs and DOs treat the whole person. Please stop saying that's all DOs do. I know several MD preceptors that are into treating the patient as a whole. The only difference people are the initials behind the name. And the extra tools of omm in the bag.

[@justtoolit6051]

DrDreams23 this is facts

[@jamesandonian7829]

I found this video annoying biased

[@katedubrouskaya9509]

@Bernie Sanders except MD students will need to take the COMLEX to apply to DO residencies, so they would have to learn OMM, I don't see any md student doing that any time soon

[@incorrectstuffthingy5647]

@Bernie Sanders well then, DO's have to step their game then.

[@currayZlittleazn]

Kate Dubrouskaya Med student applying for match this year. DO residencies do not require COMLEX in place of USMLE or OMM training. At least not at any of the programs I applied to.

[@samdung5630]

Osteopathic manipulation fixed things in my body that nothing else did.

[@MushafHaque]

Ask a patient in V-Fib if he wants an M.D. or D.O. He wants someone who will help him period. From what I've seen, both are equally capable and there's virtually no difference in clinical practice, at all. Stupid debates like these detract from the reality of what our profession is and that is SAVING LIVES. Peace.

[@jl-vs8ki]

Couldn’t agree more!

[@luke53285]

Why are you asking a patient in v-fib anything lol

[@juniusong]

Both seems like awesome pathways 👍

[@bernie9564]

Hello! Thank you for the video. What is your opinion on a student attending D.O. school and taking the USMLE step exam. If they do well, are the chances improved for matching into desired residencies?

[@learnneurology8858]

MD always has slightly more chance to match to a competitive specialty. Doesn't mean DO can't.

[@phitsf5475]

5:10 "Now that we've went through the difference between the MD and the DO" The only real difference you told us about their studies was one time some people thought craniosacral therapy was a thing and this may or may not be taught to people on the DO path. Have you a video that goes into more detail comparing the curriculum?

[@alphaspartan]

Other than OMT/OMM, the curriculum is the exact same. Now every school does curriculum differently, but if you're a DO student and plan to take Step 1 (the MD board exams) you're going to learn the exact same material and take the exact same test. Essentially, DO = MD as far as curriculum, the bias is against the student, as DO stats tend to be lower than MD +90% of the time. But I say DO's rock because if you're not naturally gifted like an MD student, pass the same curriculum AND learn OMT on top of what MD student's are learning, you're a bad ass and I'd be happy to have you as my PCP.

[@dragonfly8485]

@@alphaspartan or that could mean in order to master materials, IQs don't really matter unless it is extremely low.

[@bballgiant1]

Could you touch on the residency merger that is taking place? From what I understand the MD vs DO difference is diminishing when it comes to matching into residencies...

[@justtoolit6051]

Ben it is lol this guy just doesn’t know what he’s talking about

[@bruceylee8670]

this merger may relegate DOs to even more primary care specialties

[@dr.pakalupapito6015]

@@bruceylee8670 Clearly did not happen, based on statistics. 98% match rate this year despite pandemic; numerous surgical and other specialty matches.

[@Priyanka.Aarya77]

@@bruceylee8670 This comment is from 3 years ago. A lot has changed. I know DOs who are surgeons, I also know DOs who work in ERs, my obgyn was a DO. All excellent doctors. It also doesn't matter if it's easier to get into a DO school, this does not make them subpar doctors. There are MDs who are HORRIBLE doctors. It has nothing to do with how easy or hard it was for them to get into med school. Med school itself is academic. Residency and how you perform as a physician while taking care of patients is the gauge of a good doctor. Not their MCAT score.