M-Disc: What Does The Durability Data Say?

[@kwinzman]

Yeah but that's for the M-DISK DVDs. There the use case was much clearer because virtually all DVD-R/DVD+Rs used organic dyes. But now 4,5GB DVDs are rather old, old. I think M-DISK clearly are better than DVDs. That is uncontested. However the newer BluRays (except for the extra cheap LTH ones) all avoid organic dyes. The criticism has always been that for BluRay M-DISK is more a marketing gimmick where Verbatim merely aquired the trademark of the old M-DISK company and is selling BluRays under that trademark with arguably dubious value ad. So more interesting would be an evaluation of 25GB or 100GB M-DISK BluRay disks vs regular brand name BluRay disks.

[@simivb]

This would be very interesting. I tried to find information about how long current Blu rays last these days, but literally the only source I found that doesn't just pull numbers out of thin air is over a decade old.

[@eternaya]

More importantly, BD uses glue on its layers.

[@ebinrock]

What about Ritek M-DISCs?

[@nosuchthing8]

So go ahead. Prove it. Run some stress tests on good BR and ordinary M Discs. All the examples I have seen show the M discs to be much more robust.

[@KnightmareUSA]

A couple of months ago from the reddit page assuming the bluray verbatim m discs now use organic dyes, someone insists they have now contacted them and verbatim (now under CMC) mention they still use the same formula as the originals. At least for the blurays. Some people CMC may not bother writing the correct ID information to the discs. The official verbatim page about their m discs still mention using inorganic layers and dyes. In general, I doubt m disc lasts a great deal longer than regular, under the correct conditions. The original poster however mentions that the latest CMC discs are able to be written at a higher speed than the original m discs however, which might still raise questions over potential differing materials.

[@butmunchass]

I don't think that there's much research that is being done in the consumer space for archival blu ray media. It probably makes more sense for the larger corporations to just use the Sony Optical Disc Archive. Their media is supposed to be good for 100 years and their media is much less expensive than M disc (or even regular blu ray media for that matter). The downside is that it's a commercial product similar to the LTO tape market where the writers/burners for either the tape media or the Sony Optical Archival media are very expensive. Although once you purchase a writer/burner the marginal cost of the media itself is quite cheap.

[@DanielSRosehill]

True. I'm not sure why the DoD got involved in testing this stuff out. My assumption would be protecting something like state secrets, especially given that the research was commissioned by the Naval Air Warfare Center Weapons Division. For small but highly sensitive and important data pools .... I can see governmental actors using M-Disc (and if I'm not mistaken the US Govt is reputed to have bought these up by the 100,00). For offsite, we know they're definitely using the cloud for at least some of their data (AWS region supporting the work of the intelligence community, for instance). For enterprises - I agree, M-Disc makes no sense and just doesn't have the capacity that LTO does. For folks like me (preserving videos, photos, website data) ... I can only say that this is the kind of storage media I've been wishing exited for many years. Sadly it took me a long time to find mention of it on the data hoarders sub!

[@butmunchass]

​@@DanielSRosehill I could see how DoD would be interested in long term durability of computer storage media but not the intel community. The DoD and defense contractors do have "burn bags" but almost never use them. The CIA however does like to leave open the possibility to destroy data later, which I imagine is difficult to do in the case of M Disc: (I had left a link to the Cia-haspel-torture-tapes where she ordered tapes to be destroyed but youtube removed my comment because they don't like people leaving links.)

[@DanielSRosehill]

I'd go so far as to say that I wouldn't be surprised if the M Disc project were being kept alive by governmental buyers. I can imagine that the hobbyists don't constitute a large enough market for Verbatim to keep them in production. Although that's a massive assumption made without any data to back it. Whatever the case, I really hope they don't go out of production. I've kinda gotten used to the idea of not needing to use the cloud for backing up my video archive for the foreseeable future!

[@ebinrock]

I still got an MDISC burner and discs for my family videos because I can still just pop those in my player (they're fully compatible and play like a regular DVD/blu-ray if authored as such, assuming I still have a working player long term) and watch them in my living room well into my retirement. Can't really do that so much with LTO, Sony Optical, or other such formats.

[@butmunchass]

@@ebinrock Yeah, if you author the bd-r so that it can be played on a standard blu ray burner than you can also make copies and give them or lend them to extended family members so they can watch also.

[@zomalfa4363]

Any update on the Syylex disc yet?

[@DanielSRosehill]

Not that I'm aware of

[@Hugh_de_Mortimer]

"[Syylex] does not offer recording equipment for purchase; instead, Syylex produces the storage media in their own cleanroom laboratory"

[@ryzenseven793]

Will optical drives be around in 100+ years for the average consumer to read the disks? Will the optical drives still work in 100+ years with their plastic gears and delicate electronics made to be mass marketed for low cost? Will then modern machines access the old usb/sata drives? Will anyone really care about the data?

[@ebinrock]

All good points, and I really don't care if my stuff lasts _1000_ years, but I bought into this system because it's either you have something preserved for the rest of your life and possibly your children's lives (maybe even your grandchildren's - beyond that, your family won't care unless they're really into their ancestry, history, etc., and it would be cool for them to see some of it!)... or it rots possibly a mere decade later, or sooner. There's hardly a format that lasts between the two extremes. And at least in my lifetime, I should be able to always find a working DVD or blu-ray player from eBay, etc., or something that can be fixed up. After all, I was able to find a working laserdisc player, and you can still buy working U-Matic VCR's from the 70s. And when it looks like no optical media device is going to ever be available again, you have time then to migrate your data to the next format without having to worry that it'll be degraded or totally gone before you're able to do so. I almost lost a precious video moment of my son dressed up like Willy Wonka and doing the voice in a cute British accent (we're American). The picture had all kinds of digital speckles and the sound was either stuttery or missing in some sections on the first DVD (DVD-R) I made just maybe 10-15 years ago. Fortunately, I still had the original DV tape and was able to re-digitize it, although it was showing signs of wear too, particularly on the sound (dropouts). Fortunately, this particular section was still intact, and I was able to piece the best sections from tape and original DVD in editing, syncing everything up, and I put that to MDISC with the hope that it will all stay intact well into my golden years, watching my cute son as he was in school plays, etc. And he can show it to his children, etc.

[@dangable2889]

Daniel or anybody; The issue once media and water reader is solved, is making sure the file format is still interpreted by a computer melinia later...bury a system with instructions on it?

[@DanielSRosehill]

Great minds think alike. Time capsule idea: M Disc + M disc drive + instructions (preferably engraved or something). Couple of hundred but worth it!

[@nathanaelries9783]

@@DanielSRosehill Don't forget to include instructions on replacing the belts. Even a new in-box reader will have rotten belts.

[@ryanjofre]

1000 years is a long time. I have an external 16x Asus burner on the way.

[@relaxingnature2617]

Give me back 19 minutes of the 19:51 i wasted on this long winded nothing burger ..mabie write a script next time

[@lain2600]

I thought M-Disc lasts 1000 years

[@vicsar]

TL;DW