Installing a LARGE receive loop for Ham Radio

[@cowboy6591]

In my honest Opinion. It's the clarity of the big loop that makes it the best. Guys like me put to much stake in "Numbers" sometimes when not noticing the lower "Floor Noise" that makes the receiving so much easier to understand. The big loop wins with the absence of floor noise and abundance of clarity.

[@DXCommanderHQ]

Numbers... Yes, we can fall for that!

[@grahamburridge524]

Hello Callum I'm very pleased to see you back on you tube Im new to transmitting and I've learnt a lot from your site Keep up the good work and stay safe Regards Graham (UK)

[@DXCommanderHQ]

Great to hear!

[@BrokenSignal]

"It's good to have options" very well said and another great video!

[@lomgshorts3]

Thanks for getting technical about Amateur Radio. Most here in the States are concentrating on getting new Hams their Technician licenses. I been a Ham since 1979, and technical issues concern me, not new Hams. Oh, I have taught many New Hams myself, all got their licenses without problems. You examine the important things that we need to know. Now, examine kit building, please ???

[@DXCommanderHQ]

I have a few kit builds on the channel..

[@goobercrow198]

I believe from this demo it was clear that the noise level was slightly lower but definitely noticeably on the RX loops with preamp on.

[@vincentstevens5048]

Interesting stuff. I strung up a similar loop at home for MWDX but it was very noisy. Dimensions were 42m x 60m approximately.

[@sclerismockrey8506]

I'm going to use "uninduce" from here on! :) I have two LoGs, one is the KK5JY 15'x15' , and the other is about 300' of wire laid on the ground in as close to a circle as I could get it. They both use the 5JY transformer, and they both work beautifully. The larger loop is a dream for LW and MW and top band ham, the smaller is almost as good but up to 5 or 6 MHz as well. Noise killiin' is excellent on both... and phasing them is a treat for experimenting and digging out the weak ones. Love your videos as always Callum, thank you. 73 de Mike N0TLD

[@DK5ONV]

🤔I believe you have so many Rolls of Antenna Wire on stuck you could even run a Beverage RX Antenna around the Globe and your Storage Place still has plenty enough of Wire to build Boat Loads of Nebula Xtremes for sale. Lord Callum wires the World for best possible Communication. 💯🍻 🙋‍♂

[@DXCommanderHQ]

HAHA!

[@davidw460]

Well done DXC ! It’s so true in our noise prone environments that the Rx antenna can add a ton of value. I’m lucky enough to have a Beverage that drops noise more than signal so it’s a pleasure to listen on.

[@HamRadioLiveShow]

GREAT VIDEO CAL!!! I had a request from me newly licensed Ham to talk about the value of a receive antenna. I’ve covered this many times but it’s always good to get someone else’s perspective. I’d like to use this video on my channel and of course give you credit for it. There will be a link to your channel during the segment on the show as well as a link that people can’t find your channel on KZbin via a link in the description section of my video. BTW: My DX Commander Classic antenna is still up and working fine after two years in my backyard. Thank you for creating a product that not only works, but also lasts. It’s been through too harsh winters… And still stands tall and works fantastic! Thank you again my friend. My best to you and your family. All mr best, Larry de K7HN

[@DXCommanderHQ]

Larry, you only need to use the relevant parts, not the whole thing. Don't want to bore folks!

[@edk4590]

Most excellent as always Cal. Interested to see a video with time as you say on all the different antennas. I can imagine that as always you will be correct that some QSO's will be better on one antenna vs.another.

[@thormusique]

Just discovered this 'old' video of yours, Callum. It's a real eye-opener! I've just been thinking about installing a separate receiving aerial and didn't know what I should try. I think I'll have a go with this one, thanks! From your experiment here it would seem that the size of the loop is not critical; it's more about the space you've got. Well, I've got a nice chunk of land here (Vermont USA), so I think I'll have a go and see what I can come up with. (It might be a while before I'm up and running, as the snow is quite deep at the moment.) I'll also have to stick some sort of switching unit inline, being that my Yaesu only has a single jack for the aerial. Cheers, mate!

[@DXCommanderHQ]

OK, so I PROBABLY prefer my "tiny" loop on the ground. That's 15 feet square and it's literally lying under the leaves!

[@thormusique]

@@DXCommanderHQ That's bloody amazing, mate, seems too easy! Alright, then, the 15 feet per side square it is. I hope you're enjoying a wonderful Yule, complete with wassail bowl (or other sustaining liquid refreshment) and figgy pudding. Cheers!

[@JeffPalmer941]

Out of curiosity.. instead of running all new wire around the perimiter, could you have mused much less wire, and electrically connected all of the fencing wire together? (as in, bury some wire an inch or 2 under each gate, and connect the ends to the fence on either side of the gate)? If you aren't using it for transmit, I don't see why this would be an issue. I have the same kind of wire fencing around my property (around 1200 lineal feet) and have thought about doing this... but not sure what the result would be.

[@DXCommanderHQ]

I don't know.

[@cobrasvt347]

The 90 m sounds great

[@ponttokamera]

I have a garden with a perimeter of 150 meters. Do you think I should try this antenna? What should I do at the gate-should I run the wire over the gate so that one can pass and drive a car underneath, or should I bury the wire in the ground? The antenna would mainly be for a Kiwi SDR-receiver. 73, OH2KAJ

[@DXCommanderHQ]

Mine lies on the ground at the gate. But I'll tell yoiu, the small Loop On Ground is better.

[@ponttokamera]

@@DXCommanderHQ Ok, I will try that first. How about Beverage On Ground Antenna. Does it need to be placed in a straight line or can it be done as a loop?

[@jameski5oeb668]

This will happen at my house probably before my transmit vertical.

[@fredbissnette3104]

I have a 272 foot skyloop about 30 feet up I transmit and listen on it it's a lot quieter than the fan dipole I had up and it tunes up all bands but 17m which I use my 20m vertical for anyways.

[@DXCommanderHQ]

Ah! I have a Triangular Video coming out soon - then a Square one. But you are right, they are a lovely antenna.

[@WILLIAMPERRELLI]

On weaker signals, the Full loop always wins, followed by ground loop and then the inverted L.

[@kmaniwani3435]

Bloody nice little video !

[@JesterHellsingborg]

All u need is a wire...... 👍💚🤙🙏 and if u dont have a big backyard buy dxcommander 🙂

[@DXCommanderHQ]

Yes!

[@ladyattis]

The two loops sound quieter but that seems okay to me for receiving.

[@oldfartonabmx2122]

Aah, I see you have a similar fence to my yard (wire stock fence) and also noted that you have the fence earthed. I was wondering if the stock wire fence would affect the receive loop antenna

[@DXCommanderHQ]

Now.. I actually have no idea but for RX, it's just there.. I do get a perfect tune on 60m band!

[@bpjr1899]

Ok...I have to ask, how many times did you hit your fingers with that hammer! Thanks for your video and taking me along with you.....Greetings from OKlahoma USA

[@DXCommanderHQ]

417! I'm not so bad these days.. Many years of trying to crush my fingers..!

[@M0XFXUK]

What is the best ratio balon for a loop or does it depend on the length of the loop?

[@DXCommanderHQ]

Normally 4:1

[@M0XFXUK]

@@DXCommanderHQ Thanks Cal

[@raymondwells5807]

I notice the DX Commander in the middle of the field surrounded by your Big LOG. Is the Big LOG far enough away from the TX antenna to remain connected to a receiver when you transmit without frying the input to your receiver? I have a DX Commander Classic and am planning a LOG and wonder about safe distances because the LOG will be feeding an RSP1A SDR. THANKS

[@DXCommanderHQ]

Well.. I’m not using a separate receiver so t couldn’t melt if I tried.

[@stargazer7644]

Connect your receive antenna to a power meter and see how much power is coming into the RX antenna when you transmit at full power on various bands. I get nervous if I have more than 0dBm (1 milliwatt) going into the receiver, though many receivers can tolerate 10 times that. If I see more than 0dBm, I take action to limit that power into the receiver (filters if different band or relays to disconnect the antenna on TX)

[@Chriswoodworker]

Im wanting to get an RSPduo as I only want to listen in on things. My garden is rectangular shaped and a total of 52m in circumference. My question is, if I make a ground loop antenna, does it need to be an exact size of will using the 52m be ok? Also, what would I need and does your website provide the items. Thank

[@DXCommanderHQ]

No.. Actually, I would personally make a smaller one than you think.. My 15 ft square loop is ideal. You can buy a kit or complete LoG. Here is an example (I have one of these) www.lmkts.com/loop-on-ground. Afterwards, you could perhaps also build one all around your 52m too, maybe a bit higher off the ground. That would be fun. Perhaps on that very large loop, use a cheap 4:1 balun.. It will stop the coax fromo picking up noise. Then you would be able to compare. (you would need two coax lines.. I think the RSPdue has 2 x inputs..?)

[@Chriswoodworker]

@@DXCommanderHQ Thank you so much for getting back to me so quickly. I will order one today.

[@Chriswoodworker]

@@DXCommanderHQ Does the kit come with instructions to set up the connectors to the box?

[@elizgoated]

What type of radio is this? Love the control face, very intuitive, looks like a 200 watt model?

[@DXCommanderHQ]

Hello and thanks for dropping in.. It's the Kenwood TS-990s.

[@reaganl.5113]

How did your low loop compare to a beverage style receive antenna?

[@DXCommanderHQ]

Different.. I prefer the "loop on ground" for 40m and below.. the v long wire is nice for 20m and upwards (USA)..

[@reaganl.5113]

@@DXCommanderHQ thanks for the response!

[@FSR-v9c]

Hello, Does the fence cause any kind of well reflective or ground inductance or general negative interference with the performance over it not being there at all?

[@DXCommanderHQ]

No idea. Sorry.

[@MikeKoss]

Doesn't your wire fence affect the big loop? Could you use the fence as an antenna (though it may be grounded, I guess).

[@DXCommanderHQ]

No to antenna (grounded) and don't seem to affect the big loop either :)

[@sleeve8651]

Maybe I'm split hairs here, but what does having the wire fence in such close proximity to the receive loop have on its performance ? As I keep thinking it's like your loop is in a Faraday cage, of sorts ! And something I noticed, on one of your videos, when you were making comparisons between the small loop and the larger one, it seemed like the smaller loop reduced the noise, and made the intelligence higher, ie. Able to hear stations more clearly ! In some cases, they actually sounded louder ! And I wondered if that was because the AGC wasn't trying to clamp down on the noise ?

[@DXCommanderHQ]

I don't think it does anything.. It would have a change in impedance certainly for TX but for regular RX performance, it seems to be fine. I think it just parasitically couoples and thinks it's an antenna!

[@sleeve8651]

Speaking of the wire fence, have you ever connected to the fence itself ?

[@DXCommanderHQ]

@@sleeve8651 Yes.. but only as a ground - not an antenna.

[@RayKasprowiczJr]

What is the box you connected the 90m loop to, a 4:1 homemade balun?

[@DXCommanderHQ]

It's definately a 4:1 balun.. It might be the one Mike and I made, I can't remember.. They are cheap to buy (or make).

[@TRIPPLEJAY00]

Lovely transceiver. What model is it?

[@DXCommanderHQ]

In the main, I run TS-990s...

[@tomcook5813]

What would I possibly gain burying 400 ft of wire inside 1/2” pvc and in a loop configuration?

[@DXCommanderHQ]

I don't think anything would happen negatively.. It will still work. Just not too far underground. I would test the therory first by just laying your wiore in similar configuration and testing you are good to go..

[@tomcook5813]

@@DXCommanderHQ thank you ☺️ 73 de KG5AJP

[@turiddu9]

Would not installing this antenna in such close proximity to the metal fence lessen the antenna's efficacy?

[@DXCommanderHQ]

Unlikely. So far, after 3-4 months it's been amazing. Remember, this is RX not TX.

[@turiddu9]

@@DXCommanderHQ I’m not a ham yet, I’m considering it but am an avid SWLer and I love DXing MW. I didn’t realize that transmitting was different than receiving in terms of antenna arrangements other than matching impedance. Are baluns and ununs important for RX only?

[@stargazer7644]

@@DXCommanderHQ But antennas always have the property of reciprocity. Anything that affects TX will also equally affect RX. Now something that is so bad that it prevents you from using an antenna for TX (horrible mismatch, not resonant, etc) won't stop you from using it on RX, but it absolutely will affect how well the antenna works in some way. If an antenna suffers a loss of gain or distorts the pattern on TX because it is coupling into a parallel metal object, it will also suffer the same loss of gain and pattern on RX for exactly the same reason.

[@DXCommanderHQ]

@@stargazer7644 On the other hand we have gain.. And modern receivers have almost too much gain. But we only have finite transmit power avaipable.

[@DominicMazoch]

Would a 75/300 ohm Tele transformer work if you can waterproof. Seems that is 4:1.

[@DXCommanderHQ]

I would say try it. Sounds OK to me!

[@r9scp638]

Так какая антена на приём лучше ???

[@DXCommanderHQ]

Для приема, я думаю, это, вероятно, очень хорошая приемная антенна. Отлично подходит для прослушивания на всех коротковолновых диапазонах.

[@paulhastings3109]

Callum if you can't hear them, What the scene, just saying KQ4CD

[@DXCommanderHQ]

If you can't hear them, they're not there Paul :)

[@apartmentamaturen2dbi176]

I hear Roly lol

[@M0RMY]

First

[@DXCommanderHQ]

HAHA Tom!!

[@14404145]

Yes Cal it is all about options and using various configurations to receive the optimal signals possible. Dick k2wc

[@michaellarsen8189]

hey sir i would like to chat with you on helping me set up this type of antenna for my system. i have lots of noise since the building of lots of home behind my shop. only have 30 feet from my tower to the back of the new home thats right behind my shop. maybe get your email so we can chat more on what i have.

[@DXCommanderHQ]

Just out one down friend.. Also do Google search for loop on ground

[@michaellarsen8189]

@@DXCommanderHQ thank yu sir