Mac LC II repair attempt, a bad SID from AliExpress and a SID in a matchbox

[@dawidoszkiewicz5607]

Chip from Poland, tested in machine bought in Slovakia, and testing done in USA. World is a global village indeed.

[@sonicunleashedfan124]

I actually have an LC III, and it’s one of the best pizza box LCs, because they didn’t limit the 030 to a 16-bit data path like the prior LCs

[@tankgrrl]

Ditto! My LC III is a wonderful little box.

[@madcrowmaxwell]

I had an LC III back in middle and high school. My school was throwing it out, so I literally brought it home on the bus with me. I upgraded the hard drive, maxed out the RAM and had a good time with it for many years. Then it died on me. I'd like to get another vintage Mac, but space is at a premium.

[@DerekWitt]

I had a Mac 6100 pizza box. A shame it fell prey to a leaking pram battery....

[@freddyburger5574]

The out of focus segments were fine, I just watched them in 144p and pretended it was 2006.

[@AndrewHelgeCox]

I’m still pretending I don’t need glasses so I didn’t even notice them at 1080p.

[@kargaroc386]

Ironically, youtube was 240p *only* in 2006, so you didn't have 144p.

[@Edder31]

Oh my goodness thank you for wearing that MECC shirt! I recognized the state of Minnesota so I was curious and went to the site. To my surprise, it was filled with all the Apple II stuff I did in grade school as late as ‘99! We were the last class to use those machines before the school was combined and updated to those funky color mac’s, I think the G3’s. Brings back a ton of memories I almost forgot about like playing number munchers and working those old machines.

[@Aruneh]

So many Mac’s I never knew existed. For what it’s worth, notifications work perfectly for me.

[@alerey4363]

Apple was in a let's-make-dozen-models-based-on-the-same-hardware mode from late 80s to late 90s; they changed the name (performa, LC, server, etc) but were really variations on 3 or 4 base models, that was one of things Jobs axed when he took charge back in Apple, along with clone licensing for MacOS

[@tombarber8929]

Fun fact, this machine was literally on sale for 3 weeks before being discontinued. October 18th 1993, to November 1st 1993.

[@d4r1pp43]

I repaired many LCs. All of them with leaky caps and absolutly dead. After recap all where working fine. But i never managed to get a dead power supply working ^^. I love your content, keep up your great work and best regards from Germany.

[@CommodoreFan64]

Ahh yes, the Mac LC line, I saw a lot of these in my school system back in the 90's, right next to low cost Dell, HP, and Gateway machines.

[@BurleyBoar]

I am loving the comments put in during editing. It really makes me realize that backseat troubleshooting is easier even when it's yourself!

[@dave4shmups]

I love the LC II! I'm really nostalgic for it because it was the first color Macintosh that I ever saw-I was in 8th grade and they used LC IIs in the computer lab to teach HyperCard.

[@truezulu]

Ah Søren Lund. Makes you proud to be Danish. I remember a disk I got back in the 90s with a bunch of his tracks on it. I listened to them often, and later I met the guy aswell. Cool to get this throwback :)

[@DanielMarkstedtR]

Thanks for showing that pizza box Mac so much love in a mail call video! An unexpected treat for sure. My first home computer as a child was a Performa 400 (rebranded LC II) and I have a huge amount of affection for that Mac form factor. I hope you revisit the repair in a future video.

[@DarthEd77]

The LC III was actually a really good Mac at the time. (The earlier LCs not so much.) An LC III was my desktop Mac at work from the mid-'90s until I moved to a Power Mac, and I had no complaints.

[@OzRetrocomp]

The new workbench camera angle is great, Adrian. Manfrotto make quality camera mounts.

[@gorber81]

haha, this weeks mini (deep troubleshoot, disassembly, reprogramming, explain everything) mail call, i love it :D

[@6581punk]

Some of the differences you're hearing are due to SID filter differences. They could never produce them consistently, some of them are muffled, some are wide open. It's an analog filter and was made for a computer. So won't be very accurate. Many musicians didn't bother using it for that reason.

[@Cabalist3131]

I’d love to see some quantitative measurements (instead of qualitative) of those SIDs using an oscilloscope. Comparing waveforms on that test program would be super interesting.

[@Stoney3K]

The Aliexpress one sounds like it's got a dead noise generator and possibly a broken VCA.

[@PINKBOY1006]

@@Stoney3K Oh that could be. the VCA could be shorted and just overloading the preamp with a high peak signal.

[@SidneyCritic]

I hit the Bell and select All, and I get all notifications. Sometimes I notice they are delayed compared to the actual channel, but it's not too bad.

[@srenlund3241]

Actually the "ode to c64" tune I did, is supposed to distort a bit. The mild type that you can get when using filter on more than one voice on the 6581 chips - in my case I have used a 6581R4. :) BUT as far as I remember, it doesn´t distort that much on my 6581 chips. :)

[@privateparty4900]

"Hey, here's a half gutted, half bricked, entry level machine no one really cared about, have fun."

[@orinokonx01]

Makes for a great repair video! I myself am stuck with a dead LC II, which definitely needs recapping. Watching repair videos like Adrian makes gives me motivation to work on them. Even if it is an entry level machine...

[@tw11tube]

Thank JEDEC (a memory company association) for standardizing ROM pinouts.

[@mark12358]

Really my favourite retro channel, this Digital Basement!!! Cheers, M

[@Codeaholic1]

Notifications definitely work for me. That's how I knew this video was posted.

[@welbow]

Same, but I watch on the web. I don't get emails like I used to though. I think they removed that on purpose.

[@Codeaholic1]

I'm on android so maybe that's the difference.

[@PgWsLRoiEeyZFdXRWGMPNyiFrWpmSo]

The LC pizza boxes won’t always show video without the lithium battery installed. There’s a trick though: turn it on, then flip the switch off and on again and it will boot again, this time outputting video.

[@letthetunesflow]

😊

[@letthetunesflow]

😊

[@letthetunesflow]

😊😊

[@letthetunesflow]

😊😊😊

[@letthetunesflow]

😊😊😊😊

[@erinwiebe7026]

I've commented on this before, sorry I sound like a broken record. My little collection has LC II, LC III & Q605 boards and each of these will not post without a PRAM battery installed.

[@DevilishDesign]

Yup, can confirm this on the LC475 (Q605)

[@needfuldoer4531]

There's a trick to make it work: turn it off and back on again. Really! Turn the power on for a 10-count, then off for a 5-count, then back on and the Mac should put video out. I think it's the video system in the pizza box LC derived machines not initializing without the priming charge from a good PRAM battery.

[@erinwiebe7026]

@@needfuldoer4531 Thanks, I'll have to remember this the next time one of my batteries dies.

[@christianlingurar7085]

@@needfuldoer4531 I can confirm!!!

[@j0eCommodore]

Was going to post the same thing - one of the fist thing to try if you don't know the Mac is make sure the battery is there/has power.

[@twocvbloke]

Now you've done it, I'll be betting over the next couple of months, you'll be inundated with short-board C64cs... :P

[@kaldeban-xm7oy]

@<a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="1410">23:30</a> Left to the switching transformer, there's opto for isolated feedback. Check which voltage line is monitored and put some small load on it - some SPSes won't turn on if their 'primary' output line is not loaded (as it cannot regulate it's pure capacitive load in such case).

[@ptowncycleguy]

I think this may have been the version of Apple computer used in the computer lab in my high school. At least it looked like this (physically). I'm really not sure, but they looked like this. I graduated in 1993. Boy this brings back some memories; especially the After Dark screen saver - lawn mower dude, flying toasters, and the asteroids like Lunatic Fringe game. This is the computer that introduced me to Sim City.

[@BilisNegra]

I always do get notifications from your channel, don't seem to have issues with that. Keep up the great work.

[@StephenArsenault]

Holy smokes, Adrian. That programmer needs its own apartment it's so big.

[@cyruscuckler3495]

@Mr Guru Good lord! Thats the vintage programmers holy grail from the looks of it!

[@WY.C64-Guy]

My senior year in high school I was on the yearbook staff, and they had just barely installed brand new Macintosh LC 520s in our lab. The two work horses that the co-editors used were Quadras with large monitors. It was the first time I had ever used a color Mac for anything.

[@Zeem4]

I've put ROMs backwards in machines before, so they've got too hot to touch, and they've worked fine afterwards. Have you tried reading the LC's original ROMs out using the programmer, to see if they still read?

[@cbullar4205]

I would like to start by saying that over the years i have repaired a large number of these machines and have also found ROMs in the wrong position in the sockets (possibly even some i have installed myself, but only possibly) that have worked fine when put back correctly. I would suspect the machine is quite likly still working (to a degree) but it will need recapping (Sound is oftern lost when the caps degrade and weep out, which they do.), how ever i suspect the lack of image is a result of a subject brought up in another recent video regarding systems not turning on when the battery is not present. Well this model is one of those where it is infact the case, if the battery is not present or has gone flat it will either not start at all, or just not output any video signal. You can test if this is the problem by simply turning the machine on for a few seconds then swithing it off and back on again quickly, as long as the caps on the board arn't completly dead then the machine should be able to hold enough power for it to come up before the PRAM looses its memory again.

[@smeezekitty]

Mask roms are so simple, they should be almost impossible to kill

[@Zeem4]

@@smeezekitty My favourite incident with a ROM was dropping an AMX Super Art ROM for the BBC Micro while I was riding a bicycle at 15mph, sometime in the 90s. All the pins were bent or broken and there was a big scuff mark on it. I straightened the remaining pins, soldered replacements to the stubs of the broken ones, and it worked fine. I still have it to this day.

[@TheRetroShack]

Just about to start an LC475 full Refurb and loving these latest Mac videos - the RF panel ground plane was fascinating!

[@JesusisJesus]

Adrian, I’d love a video of “pushing SID to its limits.” How many can I stuff in a 64? Using a 2x cartridge doubler, 2 messiah, 2 - C64’s and midi, in, out and thru, how many can you REALLY run. I have a decent collection of both kinds, and dont forget the Swinsid and SID2SID cartridge, I acquired a commodore MK-10 midi keyboard and I’d like to push it to the extremes. If I had the ability I’d make an 88 SID MIDI player using this rare Commodore music keyboard I snatched up. But I’d be happy with just a comparison video of every version of the SID. I think this is the most under-rated chip made in the 80’s.

[@AndrewHelgeCox]

The top bell icon makes new videos show up in the in-app notifications: the red number. For you they are probably lost among the comment notifications but for us consumers it’s useful.

[@twobob]

I am probably completely wrong but I seem to get notifications of "Live" events "pop-up" when I am online on the web app and I get a note under the Bell Icon that a video has arrived to watch but no "notifications" on any mobile devices (I would have those turned off anyways). In this way it does seem to still "work" Great video. As a musician I can confirm that I could hear the (probably high pass) filter was broken (and maybe both) immediately upon you playing the second version of the track with waves - that did work. It was manifestly obvious in the tones. Have a nice day

[@cheater00]

I want MORE out-of-focus segments because then I can look at the stuff behind you which is COOL.

[@jamesrbrindle]

I get all notifications for your videos. With that Mac - definitely investigate the clock and reset circuits. Also not sure those rooms are programmed right still.

[@elfenmagix8173]

On the LC PSU (TDK and Aztec) the cap failure requires that you replace ALL the caps on the low voltage side. But there is a problem, not only do you need the correct farad and voltage of the cap, you need it to be the same physical size or you will have issues closing the PSU case. Once all the caps on the low voltage side are replaced, you fixed the PSU.

[@cbullar4205]

I would like to start by saying that over the years i have repaired a large number of these LCII, LCIII and Preforma machines and have also found ROMs in the wrong position in the sockets (possibly even some i have installed myself, but only possibly) that have worked fine when put back correctly. I would suspect the machine is quite likly still working (to a degree) but it will need recapping (Sound is oftern lost when the caps degrade and weep out, which they do.), how ever i suspect the lack of image is a result of a subject brought up in another recent video regarding systems not turning on when the battery is not present. Well this model is one of those where it is infact the case, if the battery is not present or has gone flat it will either not start at all, or just not output any video signal. You can test if this is the problem by simply turning the machine on for a few seconds then swithing it off and back on again quickly, as long as the caps on the board arn't completly dead then the machine should be able to hold enough power for it to come up before the PRAM looses its memory again.

[@YourIdeologyIsDelusional]

The LCIII I remember very fondly because I got one from my aunt in the 90s. It was my first color Mac.

[@gb7767]

Really enjoyed this one, lots of fun at the bench. Looking forward to the conclusion on the LC2/3. Nice to see the 64C short-board make an appearance too :D

[@AdamChristensen]

I seem to get all the KZbin notifications for the channels I have set. Side note, I can believe it's been 3 years since one of your LED bulb videos popped up in my recommended video list. I'm sure it's because I was watching the entire back catalog of Big Clive videos.

[@ITVOIP]

just confirming that i am subscribed with notifications on and I don't get notifications for your channel. I do for other channels but it's when youtube feels like it.

[@EsotericArctos]

Not sure what the issue is with notifications. I ticked subscribe and selected all and I always get every notification of new videos and have never had one missed. I never trust chips from AliExpress. I am more surprised when they work 🙂

[@doktor6495]

Interesting SID-Chip comparison. I didn't think there would be such differences in details. Greetings, Doc64!

[@marian.hristov]

Love your channel! Keep up the good work! Warm greetings from Bulgaria!

[@mdamaged]

That lighting though, your forehead is a beacon of shining glory!

[@connorm955]

I like how companies known for manufacturing other products manucaturer other things like that TDK power supply. And i saw Techmoan's Mac had a Cannon cooling fan.

[@theangryvorlon1]

I do have an spare LCIII motherboard that I can get you the Roms from to test yours. I sent an email to you as well on it.

[@teejmiller]

I'm looking forward to the LCII troubleshooting series!

[@jammi__]

The 12" RGB 512x384 resolution screen was just the lowest cost color monitor for the LC series. They always worked with 640x480 grayscale and color displays too, and if I recall correctly, 640x870 portrait displays too. Later models supported a much wider range, including higher resolutions ("Apple" 21" resolutions 1152x870@70Hz, SVGA 640x480@60Hz, 800x600@56Hz etc).

[@ericmallory3050]

Mousetrap Monday had a great explanation of the notification issue... Checking to see if I can link it here... Can't find it in my history, bit he had a great q&a segment that describes the use of notification settings... I have run into similar issue with youtube notification not working, and I think it boils down to enabling it per device... I will have to do more research, but he had a great explanation of how he figured it out.

[@r.l.royalljr.3905]

I watched this over lunch at 1.5x speed so I may have missed if you mentioned it but I have an LCIII (the badge is actually a Performa 475 but same thing under the hood) and it either only boots or only displays video if the battery is installed. So don't forget to pop a new battery in at some point.

[@thedungeondelver]

Ah yes, the LC series, back when Apple was racing Packard-Bell to the bottom rung of the PC ladder.

[@alerey4363]

That pizza box form factor is super compact coolness; together with the apple hi-res 13" color monitor make a perfect vintage trophy

[@only257]

@@alerey4363 😈interesting

[@madcrowmaxwell]

The LC line offered an affordable, well-engineered entry into the world of Color Macs. The LC III, which is more or less what this is after its board upgrade, in particular, was a great machine at a good price.

[@stathissim]

there's little to no evidence that these made their way to Europe so I've never seen them

[@stonent]

LCs were popular in schools though. We had them in Jr. High and HighSchool in the 90s.

[@markdjdeenix6846]

The polish Sid sounds awesome a real kettle drum sound

[@HometownUnicorn]

You should have a little laminated checklist next the camera mounts in each shot location. Reminding you to focus and change other settings .

[@RaJ2986]

Man, we had stacks of LCII's and LCIII's that were getting phased out in favor of G3's and iMac's back in our school in 2000. They had a massive pile of at least 100 these things in our media center that went to the district computer grave yard never to be heard from again...

[@PatrickDunn13078]

My main computer at the office I work at back in the 90’s through early 2000’s was an LCIII. It was ok. A co-worker of mine one time watered a hanging plant above the monitor I had with it. It dripped into the monitor and into the computer. When the tech came to replace the motherboard they noticed the water stain and I said I had no idea what happened! LOL. It was utilized until we got a PowerPC clone Radius.

[@rfmerrill]

I actually find fiberglass pencils take a long time to remove solder mask and the fibers break off and get everywhere. My preferred tool for removing solder mask is a sewing needle--the largest size you can get, hold it firmly and use a side to side action rather than pushing it. You can also use the point of a pair of tweezers if they're hard enough or don't have too fine of a point to begin with.

[@johansteenkamp9214]

Thanks for the video! I am looking forward to a future video on the Chameleon cartridge.

[@senilyDeluxe]

Killing incorrectly installed components with an overpowered PSU... been there, done that. (it was an EPROM. Beeping it through showed the +5V pin had no more continuity. I thought "what do I have to lose", popped the window and tried inserting a wire to hook up to the what was left of the wire bond (it worked like a fuse), but either that was a too small scale to work with or the chip had died too). My aunt's LCII (an actual LCII) also didn't work, black screen, weird noises from the speaker. I once got a white screen, but it locked up before anything else showed up. I ended up replacing the capacitors, which got rid of the noises, but still black screen. Then I wanted to remove the PSU to look at the caps inside and then I saw another leaked electrolytic hiding under the cable to the PSU. Replaced it and pling - the LCII booted right up. And I just fixed a Roland XP-50 keyboard. When I looked at the mainboard, I got instant Adrian Black Leaked Macintosh Electrolytics flashbacks. Thanks for the hint with just twisting them off. I only damaged one pad. Nowadays, most SID files are written for the 8580 because they all sound more or less the same, while with the 6581, if you have 5 of them, you'll get 4 different sounding versions of each song if the song uses filters. My guess at the fault is either the ring modulator is bad or there is a problem synchronizing the oscillators. Or the resonance.

[@stevethepocket]

You inspired me to look up those two demo songs. It's amazing hearing sounds I normally associate with the Sega Genesis coming out of a computer that predates the Nintendo. It really goes to show how even some of the best professional composers for 64 games didn't take full advantage of its capabilities.

[@sprybug]

The bell notification thing is weird. I get notifications for things that I didn't click, and when I do get them, they don't come until days later, but for other channels where I did click it, it comes right away.

[@dasrael]

YT notification bell is scuff... Thanks for the vids!

[@pajaco6502]

The slightly out of focus bits looked like old VHS footage :)

[@stevesstuff1450]

It was a depth of field error! The background was perfectly focused, but Adrian wasn't.... just a small tweak on the camera will have fixed that... ;-)

[@onlyeyeno]

@Adrian's Digital Basement Thanks for another enjoyable and interesting video. And I apologise for suggesting something that most likely appears stupid, but if You don't get ANY YT-notifications at all on Your "phone". It just possibly might be that You have set one of the (in my opinion) plethora of different ways that You can (knowingly and by mistake) disable notifications from being displayed on Your phone... I know that I have managed to do it unintentionally more than once ;) ... Just a thought. Best regards.

[@slashtiger1]

Nice video, as always! By the way, I just wanted you to know that, at least for me, notifications work just fine when I tap the bell icon on my phone upon subscribing to a channel. Same goes for the site. Just make sure to always enable ALL notifications. I don't even know why the other setting has to be there, to be honest.

[@loxo5526]

I do receive notifications for new videos from your channel

[@RyeOnHam]

I use the Manfrotto mounts as well. Four tripods and one over-bench view.

[@retropuffer2986]

Loved those Macs back in the day.

[@Francois_L_7933]

Told you you'd be happy with those quick releases 😎

[@wizofssp]

As always, the best Electronic Home schooling for me 😁

[@frankowalker4662]

I have'nt had a YT notification in my PC inbox for about a year. But they are in the drop down menu when you click the bell at the top of the YT page.

[@mybigfatpolishlife]

That mount is really nice that's a really good tripod manufacturer

[@connorm955]

I think there was a Performa 460 in my kindergarten class in 2002, and there where a few other models i can't remember aside the main pcs the school had, Dell Optiplex GX110 desktops.

[@kd5byb]

Hocus pocus, no worries about focus! We're here for the content! :) Say hi to Rami please! Still loving the Mexican Tang as well as Mexican Klass. :)

[@gorber81]

0,5% dislikes on a video, who beats that.. great work, you cracked the code

[@christopherbaar4498]

A Turbo Chameleon 64! I have one of those. Primary reason I had for buying it was for the VGA output, but it's very useful. I've also played with it in standalone mode, where it functions like a MiSTer.

[@dieSpinnt]

Thanks for the exciting video, Adrian :) Oh and what did I write a month ago? Use a power supply with current limiting. You have one, don't you? (Ouch :)) The Conan (The Barbarian: P) method just breaks more than necessary ... and makes me sad.

[@HoldandModify]

That's interesting about the ROMS. Amiga's with twin Kickstart ROMS are the same. You install them moved down a pin with extra socket holes available, yup. AND. If you install them wrong, swapped. They cook. However they tend to still work if you catch it quick. Ask me how I know. :)

[@volkerking5932]

One interest detail is that a 270µF/16V Elko will be changed by a same or higher value for example 330µF/16V or the Voltage shall be higher like 330µF/25V. Also the temperature range is better if you use not the 85°C it shall 105°C and a very good idea is it to use the Elkos from Panasonic, Nichicon, Rubicon (I think they are all from Japan). Also to know is that a small high Elko are have a low Inductivity a low L! ----- Fat Elkos are not good in a Switching Power supply and the reason is the high Inductivity from the longer spinning foil. A higher Elko have not so many turns and that mean a lower Inductivity. My experience is to change every time all Elkos - the reason is the other Elkos are also at the same old so the next is going and leaking. Best Regards Volker from Vienna

[@aaronjamt]

<a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="450">7:30</a> At least this Mac doesn't rely on RF shielding for sound

[@bengelman2600]

haha

[@talideon]

The LC series were low cost in name only!

[@stefarossi]

Mactracker says the initial price for the LC was $2400, $1240 for the LCII, $750 for the LCIII. Were the LCII and LCIII such bad deals back then?

[@TheLEEC]

Good video! In the couple of LCIIs I’ve repaired they were dead like that because it required the battery installed. Not sure if that applies to the LCIII/Performa boards. Both of them also had PSU issues (All ELNA “Long-Life” secondary side failed. Non “Long-Life” were all ok.)

[@twitchalmighty]

I would consider looking for the schematics for that power supply, and build a new one, but as I have described before, that what only a consideration.

[@cleetusmacfarland9453]

"......looking for some kind of life"; gets earth shattering KABOOOM

[@Fifury161]

Apple had many Mac's with the moniker LC (12 in total IIRC), but only 5 "pizza box" designs. The LC, II, III, III+ & 475. The where very similar in fact so much so that Apple offered an upgrade path from the LCIII to the LC475 - it consisted of a new motherboard and top lid. Worth noting that the LCII isn't really an upgrade over the LC (I consider it a downgrade, despite the fact that the LCII has 4Mb on board over the LC @ 2Mb, it also had a slight tweak to the video output to improve multisync monitor support, but my main gripe is the fact that Apple decided to remove the second floppy drive port!). I still have at least 60 of the various LC iterations as I used them in combination with Thursbys DAVE to share over 4Gb of data back in the day! Oh I must get around to creating a few videos!

[@mixmasta]

Check the capacitors inside that Antec Truepower for leakage.

[@piwex69]

"Szymon" is pronounced "shh mon" (like ending sound of hash + mon)

[@OzRetrocomp]

Great. Now I have random Michael Jackson songs stuck in my head! Shh mon... hee hee!

[@stonent]

I wonder if it's related to Shimon like Shimon Perez.

[@aw4483]

I know the LC's aren't supposed to be "good" but I got a fleet of them working for the local school district in 98 (they were doing upgrades and throwing them out so I just loaded up my car) so I have a fondness

[@GameTechRefuge]

Nice camera mounts Adrian, looking good.

[@pogostix6097]

Blurgh... I have sound-to-color synesthesia and that was the nastiest, crunchiest Ode to C64 I've ever heard.

[@frogz]

man, frodo is a really good camera holder

[@organiccold]

I loved it. I actually have a complete LC II that i still use

[@wibblywobblyidiotvision]

CSG *were* MOS. Commodore bought into MOS pretty heavily in order to get their hands on enough 6502s.

[@arsler]

I found that some time ago KZbin stopped sending email and texts because of not wanting children getting those notifications (at least that is what I remember). The bell icon on while you are logged into KZbin does still work. That is how I usually know of new uploads.

[@Xoferif]

Really love that little Philips CRT! Absolutely perfect to have on your bench without taking up too much room (which even 14" sets do). What diagonal screen size is it?

[@stonent]

Dave Jones on EEVBlog uses Manfrotto stuff.

[@AureliusR]

I really want one of the Macs from that era that's able to run A/UX

[@twitchalmighty]

The chips being flipped around, probably destroyed them because the VCC and GND pins would have probably been swapped, they were most likely fried. But that is only a thought.