MAF Training and Nutrition with Andy Hooks | Extramilest Show #21

[@FlorisGierman]

*Hi there! In the coming days and weeks I’m hosting several live webinar trainings about how to run a Personal Best race time, with special optimization strategies. Spots are limited, register for free here: **bit.ly/Running-Training-Flo*

[@karihale7068]

Hands down, favorite quote, "The most important thing is to love it." I have been running for 25 years, just started MAF training 4 months ago. I've never loved running so much. Bravo! I agree, I love it!

[@Amanda.c91]

I am so enjoying running like never before with MAF low hr running. And I have zero aches/pains, cadence Is always 180 and at the end of each run, (which are always long, 10+ miles) I’m ready to go again or am already thinking about the next run. No soreness, and these runs are always fasted. And I don’t crave sugar sugar sugar afterwards! Just in a zen, high, grateful state. Clearly fat burning clean even every. And I’ve only been back to running for a month after doing just walks for cardio these last few months. And now I can do 10, 11, 12 miles out of nowhere with no needs to walk. Just keeping hr under 151, gives me roughly 9:50-10:20min/ mile pace. I’m so grateful. Losing fat and sleeping better too😌Thanks Floris for all your content. And yay Strava!

[@tf-ok]

Your zone 2 is under 151?

[@jonathansandberg5983]

Very interesting. I agree with a lot of the sentiments in this conversation. I ran a marathon in May and was so sore afterwards that I couldn’t run for two weeks. Since then I bought an HR monitor and have been logging a ton of miles at low heart rate and I’m never sore and I’m getting much faster. While I’m looking forward to a better marathon performance soon, I’m finding that I really just enjoy running for its own sake. It’s all about longevity.

[@bmanley01]

when Andy said he was fasting 48 hours prior to racing...I was working, listening on headphones. I thought; "did he just say what I thought he said?" I turned around to the computer, rolled back the video, and had to listen to it a couple of times to be sure I WAS hearing exactly that! I just kept thinking "that didnt end well"...GREAT video!!

[@awhooks210]

Brent Manley yeah, it was true lol. You are correct it didn’t end well🥵. Even though I got the BQ, I was wrecked.

[@TandZAptLife]

Hi Floris. I had a bilateral knee replacementsalmost 3 years ago and I am using MAF training. It is very hard keeping my heart rate low because I have to walk some of the time, but I never exercised before my knee replacement so this is all new for me. I am run/walking up to 5K. Thank you for sharing the information you do on MAF training.

[@nikitaw1982]

how did you go? i'm just starting. no injurys but weird groin adductor pain after a run. i like maf so i don't over train and a way to listen to body without guess work. if i'm fatigued my heart rate goes up and effort i can produce for a set heart rate goes down. if means i have to walk so be it. what can i do diet sleep etc to lower fatigue so effort at the set heart rate can go up? every time i have ran in the past i get injured very quick because my ego and lac of patience gets in the way. go too fast and hurt something. goal is increase speed at a set heart rate, not to run fast.

[@GoodMorningAndrea]

I am a nurse also and my favorite quote is "it's hard to know what anyone's live story is"; my favorite takeaway is the bone broth and I will set out tomorrow to find some. I use Nuun hydration and Base salt during Texas summer long runs and Calm at work and at night time. Thank you for a great interview

[@FlorisGierman]

Glad you enjoyed the interview Andrea! The bone broth was also a great reminder for me as well. Can't wait to experiment more with Nuun myself. Have fun out there on your Texas summer runs. Thanks and cheers

[@jordanrundell9962]

This episode was Great! I like how Andy is a very honest, down to earth guy. I learned a lot from this episode to apply to my training, as I also have my sights set on Boston. Happy Training everyone!

[@FlorisGierman]

Well said Jordan Rundell, congrats on winning the contest. I will send you a message for details.

[@es1683]

Really great interview. I loved the part about cloning a runner and having one run MAF+25 for 30-40 miles a week and the other run MAF-25 for 70 miles a week and noticing how the MAF-25 runner would be far more aerobically fit in a year’s time and better equipped for a marathon than the MAF+25 runner

[@mychulita]

What an amazing chat. Watched it till the end. Just training for my first marathon and this helps me a lot.

[@robertocarlosbravorosas3187]

Greetings from Cancun, thank you very much for this great conversation with a lot of tips and experiences to apply in to my runs, I hope you have chance to make more videos like the one!!!

[@guitarman7575]

This channel is great. Floris and Andy, many thanks for sharing. The content is so super helpful. Started MAF just because of your videos, Floris 😀😊👍 started in April 2019 with 5:40 min per km. Now I am able to run 5:19 min per km 7 bpm below my MAF. My plan I to sub3 in autumn 2020. I assume I have to increase my volume to nearly 100km next year.

[@es1683]

I started MAF just because of your videos too Floris. You’re awesome, thanks so much for sharing the knowledge.

[@matteo.barbieri]

same here! 5:39 in May, 5:11 in August MAF test!

[@erinhinton613]

My big takeaway : electrolytes! Since listening I’ve been experimenting with additional supplements besides the salt rocks I carry with me on long runs. So far, so good. We will see how it impacts my next HM! Thanks for the great content as usual...

[@burillakcsaba]

Another good show from Floris! Thanks for that for you and Andy as well of course. The key takeaway for me was that if you have fun running, it may become a habit and lifestyle of yours. Sticking to MAF is initially especially hard because you need more time allocated for that due to the slower running or walking. If you remain patient, you will probably suceed. But you can only keep your patience if you have fun and you are not angry about running slow. Another important point: consistency over intensity. I like Andy's health approach, which is why I run in addition to having fun and the sports performance aspect. I will check out bone broth availability in Hungary as well :-) Thanks, Floris for continuing these valuable interviews, they are all good insights to someone's life and mental approach. I like the deep linking of the sections in the video. This facilitates easy searching within the interview! Good and professional job again, mate!

[@TheKapor10]

Thank you for bringing us this content, the amount of energy you put in it is amazing, podcasting with gods like Mark Allen, Phil Maffethone etc., learning from them in first person. Damn man, your a hero!

[@Fun-pf9lw]

Such a great message. It’s about enjoyment and they rest will follow

[@Rls2236]

I liked hearing about the Strava related climate app --- I'll need to look into that since hot weather days make longer runs soooo tough!

[@FlorisGierman]

Yes, klimat.app is great, makes comparing runs over time easier to have that additional info available.

[@runningwoman7207]

Great video! Thanks to you & Andy! Just started MAF running 4 days ago…. So far I’m having to walk/run as I’m 64 & my bpm should be at 116…. But I’m doing it, normally run a 9 min mile but with MAF I’m running around 12 plus min mile…. But I have confidence it will just get better & better. Next I need to work on my nutrition! I love junk food!

[@tinytoepress9759]

Great interview! In terms of nutrition: a whole foods, plant-based diet works great for me. I notice a faster recovery, which allows me to run consistently.

[@jepensedoncjesuis4813]

Super cool dude!👍😊...Loved the Nutrition approach as well as the 100% HR based speed intervals! Makes so much sense!

[@robertbausa1]

Love this vlog! I'm new to MAF, 4 weeks, and enjoying. At 50 years old, about 18 months into running (70+ lb weight loss in 2 years), and numerous injuries it was time to find something and my Dr (also an athlete) recommended MAF as I was significantly over training. As mentioned, hard to start out at such slow paces, but after the first 5-6 runs started getting in the groove and enjoying the process now. Anecdotally, I live in Houston and most of my runs are at 100+ heat index due to my work schedule (early morning to mid-afternoon work). I just took a vacation to Oregon and Washington. At 100+ heat indexes I run at about a 12:30-13:00 MAF pace after the first 1.5-2 miles. In 60-65 degrees, with a lot more hills, my MAF pace was closer to 10:30. ??Question: I'm running my first "official" half marathon (Boston) in 5 weeks and will not have built up my aerobic base by then. My last 13.1 miles was at 8:57 pace in March, should I add a couple of tempo efforts or fartlek and exceed MAF to remind my legs how to turn over at the 9 min pace? Since Houston stays hot into Oct, I likely won't have any lower temperatures to work out in before the HM and my MAF efforts will almost certainly still be above 11 min/mile.

[@awhooks210]

Really good question, especially in this Texas heat wave. I would advise not to do much tempo runs/fartleks that exceed your MAF if running outside. I would do those type of runs indoors if possible. The main reason is because your going to put a lot of stress on your body because of the heat and humidity where you would drastically increase the risk of injury. Because of that, I would advise to find an indoor track, if one is available, or a treadmill. Hope this helps.

[@robertbausa1]

@@awhooks210 Thanks Andy! This makes perfect sense as just finishing the miles is often significant effort in itself. I got to run in the rain a couple miles yesterday and it was so nice to run 10:00 miles in my MAF :-) Not sure what the temperature of rain is, but man did it feel good to get soaked and feel cool for 20-25 minutes.

[@missyconstantineau8107]

Hands down the most motivating video I have ever experienced

[@tankercrewchief]

I made it all the way to the end… Great content 🤙🏾

[@61651092]

😂😂

[@Czeslawdavidson]

Great pod cast! Thanks guys, I got so many take aways from it.

[@davidmoghani2427]

Very Sad to see the daily blogs come to an end. However, I understand you have priorities that is your family and for your own daily living and the goals you set for yourself. Seven years is a long time for daily vlogs and have enjoyed all your work. May God Bless you.🙂🏃🏻‍♂️👟💪

[@FlorisGierman]

What was your favorite quote or takeaway from this episode? I would love to hear from you. Congrats to Jordan Rundell for winning a 12 pack of Spring Energy (Andy’s favorite real food, low sugar, natural energy) + the Hi Lyte salt tabs that Andy takes. Thanks everyone for entering. More contests coming soon!

[@bryangrullon]

"Please, do not fast. I was just being stupid." lol That cracked me up. Kudos to him though, I cannot imagine being nutrient deprived prior to a race. Excellent interview and very informative to aid in my running journey (2 months away from my November races!) Wish me luck for a +30min PR!

[@SocksLove]

Best Quote: What is your goal for Berlin? My goal is to break 2 hours 😂 just kidding 2:40 This quote made me smile. Throughout life I have always felt immense pressure to complete my goals in other people’s timelines they set for me. However, the running community has helped me feel confident sharing my PRs without fear of judgement from others!

[@jonfrederickson3269]

"Get past the idea that you're not making progress." As an older runner eight months into MAF, progress has been slow and very humbling. I jogged for thirty five years. Started at 13 minute miles with lots of walking in February, heart rate all over the place, aiming for HR 123. Now running 11:19 miles with no walking. 5-6 hours a week of running. Lots of effort, very slow progress.

[@theruralones3194]

I don’t have a favorite quote but took away so much from this podcast. I trained MAF last year after hitting a plateau in my running. I struggled to stick with it and fell back into my “what I thinks best” mentality. Work schedule got heavy and was unable to run for a few months. Now I’m 7 weeks into a training plan and feeling sluggish....I know I’m over working my system. Yesterday on a tempo run I felt my quad tighten I stopped and was going to quit but decided I could manage finishing the workout doing MAF. Today I started watching your videos again and ran across this episode that you released today and Andy literally lives 30 miles north of me. I can’t relate to his speed and mileage but everything else dealing with “experiments” and the Texas heat and humidity. This is everything I needed to hear today to continue my training but change my mindset to quality MAF runs opposed to the cookie cutter (rest day, tempo day, slow day, intervals, crosstrain, long and slow). Hope to be a 5hr to 3hr pr marathon guest in your show one day. 🤘🏽

[@neilsyard]

'testing patience'...it's a marathon, not a sprint and that's something I've learnt as the key to MAF training for myself..

[@njdnjdnjd]

Hi Floris!! Another great podcast! I love a lot of this podcast. For me the big take away was the nutrition. So Bone Broth!! And also the gels, which go easy on the stomach & and the other small point was the amount of greens he is getting.

[@gogoldiego]

Great info. Very motivating.💛👏💪🏃‍♀️🏃‍♂️😇🙏

[@steveshea6148]

Maltodextrin is mainly used as a flavoring carrier/vehicle. You flavor the maltodextrin, then you add the flavored maltodextrin to the food. It will stick to surface of the food and can be distributed evenly around the food.

[@61651092]

Not when it comes to energy products. MD is great, because it's short chains of glucose that is therefore delivered a little slower than if you have just glucose. But the most important thing is actually the taste. It's not as sweet as sucrose, so you can make much more concentrated bottles/Geels without chocking on the extreme sweetness that you would find in a sucrose or pure glucose alternative.

[@namits3775]

Excellent video... very informative

[@tompatrick795]

My takeaway is to look at low heart rate training more seriously. I have my first marathon in a few days. Goal is to finish but one day BQ. I just turned 59.

[@joevr12]

My favorite part was about using bone broth for maintaining micronutrients

[@danielwilberforce7400]

Great video thanks for the info. Gives me more patience with getting into Maf training. And thanks for the metric conversions! 👌

[@Johnnyutah001]

Great episode once again. Most important take away is to stay patient and be persistent with the training and the results will come. I live and train at 8k feet in Colorado so it can be frustratingly slow to stay in the MAF range, especially uphill. Quick question: does Andy recommend a bone broth brand? I’ve tried Kettle and Fire but it’s expensive.

[@awhooks210]

John thank you for the input. Yeah so for me, I would use the local brands in my city for the most part because of the price or I use the brand Epic because they have the best taste. For budget wise, Kitchen basics has a good concentration of electrolytes and they can be found on Amazon, Walmart etc. I use them when I’m traveling, and the taste is good

[@paulogil9739]

Thank's Floris (and Andy) for another impressive podcast full of helpful ideas and proved content. My question is related to the bone broth bottles... is there any problem if they have some amount of proteins? I know that we can make it homemade but are there some brands that you recommend? Hope to see you again (maybe in Napa where I live now)

[@thomasmichaels6850]

I love the conversation, but have to disagree on one point, where the subject of 70 and 80 year olds breaking three hours in the marathon was mentioned. Very few in their 70's have broken three, American Gene Dykes being one,(He's amazing BTW) . More likely an elite 70 plus age runner might hit mid three's, but more likely four plus hours, which is an amazing accomplishment in itself. Men in their fifties breaking three hours is fairly common, but with each passing five year span it gets exponentially harder to accomplish, no matter one's training and conditioning. Again, I enjoy the conversations, Floris. Thanks for all you do.

[@AudiadMeam]

I really enjoyed this podcast. Great job! I can believe anyone trains in that South Texas Heat and Humidity😬 What electrolytes are you taking? The potassium and sodium focus sounds worth trying out. Thanks again Floris and Andy!

[@awhooks210]

George Ross thanks for watching. For me, I get a majority of electrolytes from salt tabs and bone broth when running. Outside of running I get them primarily from green leafy vegetables. For the salt tabs I use a brand called Hi-lyte tabs. They have way more electrolytes than any other brand that I have seen.

[@AudiadMeam]

Andy Hooks thanks a ton for the reply! I love that bone broth tip. Can’t wait to try that out.

[@es1683]

Hey Andy Hooks I found the Spring packets but can you tell me more about the bone broth? Do you make it from scratch? Or is it single serve packets that mix with water and if so what brand do you use? Thank you so much for doing this interview, I really enjoyed all the great info.

[@awhooks210]

Sheila Egts thank you for watching. Yeah, for the bone broth I use the pre-pack packages in stores. I usually purchase brands that’s made from the local grocery store. For purchasing on a budget, the brand Kitchen Basics chicken bone broth. My favorite brand, Epic, makes very tasty broths with very high electrolytes. I just drink them straight from the containers, but you can warm them to your liking. There’s really no wrong way to consume them. Hope this helps

[@davidafonso5948]

Hi Floris I have a question maybe u can answer me. I am David 44 from Paris. I run regularly since 3 years, I ran several half marathon and did my first marathon this year in Liverpool (not really easy) in 5 hours. I have been training with MAF since last june and I already can see improvements...BUT.... I calculated 180-44 = 136 bpm MAF And I am on regular medication for a slight hereditary hypertension, do you think I should go down with a minus 10 and train at 126 MAF ? Thanx a lot and congrats for your excellent videos !!!

[@TheBramptonValleyRunner]

Just happened to see your comment watching the video, if your improving I’d stay where you are if not reduce the ten beats.

[@mrsaprilmendez]

Speaking as someone with chronic issues related my pancreas and thyroid- corn sugars and their counterparts are the WORST carbs out there for me when it comes to fuelling.

[@richardmiddleton7770]

You have to be careful with MAF when fasted and low carb because that in itself will decrease your HR so you might be running too hard to get your HR into the MAF range. That's my experience anyway. Your body can simply get too good at gluconeugenesis (muscle breakdown) so if you're always pushing MAP +5 beats you're actually burning quite a lot of glycogen aswell and if you're not consuming any carbs some of it will be coming from muscle breakdown.

[@TheBramptonValleyRunner]

Just catching up with this, Great interview, I like running fasted but I think 48 hrs before a race might be pushing it a bit 😆

[@cubitusclaudius]

it's so interesting to follow you. I was just asking myself about how to establish my MAF training. I'm 66, and I'm running seriously since July (less than 6 months) so my maf HR should be 114 bpm. if I walk, I hardly reach 105 bpm on flat, but as soon as I run, I would overpass easily 114. I live in Switzerland. even if I climb very slowly a mountain, my HR would be around 135... So, by one side, it is very frustrating to only walk and mostly on flat and boring places. I like mountain and land hiking and running. how could I manage a maf training in those circumstances ? (I listened what you were talking at 1:29:00, but don't forget next year I'll be 67 and should run at 113, so I don't know if it's humanly possible to even run at that heart rate ? )

[@FlorisGierman]

Hi Claudius, good to hear from you. Even walking / hiking / much slower jogging when there are any type of hills involved, is very beneficial for your aerobic development. Amelia Vrabel talks about this more in our latest podcast: kzbin.info/www/bejne/qIiZnqVudsSXpqM Also, re your age, something to keep in mind here from Dr. Phil Maffetone's 180 formula on his site: "The 180 Formula may need to be further individualized for people over the age of 65. For some of these athletes, up to 10 beats may have to be added for those in category (d) in the 180 Formula, and depending on individual levels of fitness and health. This does not mean 10 should automatically be added, but that an honest self-assessment is important."

[@MarcAndreJourdan]

Great Video Thank You Guys

[@FlorisGierman]

🙏 Thanks for watching!

[@drdoomconvert]

Do sugary energy gels actually spike blood sugar for that long when you are exercising/racing? Surely the cells would be screaming for glucose and it would be used there and then before the need for insulin to spike?

[@Yeastextract]

Depends upon insulin resistance. Insulin resistance is caused by fat so on a high fat diet as soon as you start eating sugar then you will have high blood sugar levels that don’t drop quickly like they should - and of course then sugar gets the blame 😂

[@googlephone8353]

What was your cadence when you first started MAF training, Floris? Is cadence as important as just trying to keep your heart rate down?

[@emberos]

Good discussion but I will say that the basic MAF 180 - age formula can fall apart for over age 50 runners that have a reasonable level of fitness. The strategy of low HR running is still very sound - perhaps even more critical in this age bracket when you have fewer recovery resources than you did in your youth . . . but the aerobic threshold isn't likely to be sub 130 bpm if you have developed a good level of cardiovascular fitness. I tend to use something like the Karvonen formula where I can plug in my personal resting HR and max HR and build an appropriate low HR cap with that. A generic 180 - age formula may fit well at the population level but it can end up being very poorly attuned at the individual level.

[@FlorisGierman]

Agreed. That being said, there are further customization options for athletes in their fifties and beyond as well.

[@CarnivoreDMD]

OMD Fasting Mondays, KetoVore & no pn or injuries!

[@FlorisGierman]

Glad you found what works for you

[@observer7662]

On race day are you still running maf or is it just for training?

[@BayChurch]

Floris, how's your CIM training going? Should be an eazy PR for you since the course is downhill-flat

[@CarnivoreDMD]

Might want to try BFR weight training if you are getting hurt often.

[@FlorisGierman]

Thanks for your input!

[@Amanda.c91]

OMG he’s an ER nurse! Me too! Day shift though thank Jesus😄Houston nurse here! What’s up Texas ER nurse runners!!! And maffetone! Is this guy single?😆😉

[@FlorisGierman]

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[@meqdadmahmoud6641]

Hi What is the name of the gel that he is using ?

[@awhooks210]

I use the My Spring Energy gels. However, someone just introduced me to Muir energy gels. These are also whole foods based gels with only 5-6 ingredients with no maltodextrin. They also contain a high amount of electrolytes so I'll give those a try.

[@meqdadmahmoud6641]

Andy Hooks thank you very much

[@Mr-SRG]

If your clone trains at a lower heart rate most days, it will be faster than you in the long run come race day.

[@FlorisGierman]

Absolutely! This will be an interesting experiment to run actually, although I'd only want to be the person running 10 miles / 16k a day a low heart rate, vs the person hammering out hard 10 miles / 16k runs 4 x a week only. :D

[@ryanjeanes5253]

Let's be clear. Some people's weight problems are their fault. I'm not saying it's easy to make a change but you do, at some point, have to decide, and NO ONE is going to do it for you.

[@951NewNow]

LSD is making a comeback 😂!

[@cathrinejones7294]

Can i ask what bone broth do you use? Many thanks

[@RealStrategyGamingClassics]

This guy didnt eat for 2 days before a marathon? Lol i know hes experimenting but I would not do that. And the electrolytes are related to the heat also. Its more of a focus in the summer time and a hot climate like you are at. Carbs are the most complex thing about running nutrition in my research. Electrolytes are a little easier now than 20 years ago because of so many companies selling so many products that are decent.

[@Amanda.c91]

I love sugar free powerades haha my go to after runs. Yay electrolytes!

[@konradponiewierski7907]

Nothing new on race day .