Magnesium Deficiency Cured? One Year On Epsom Salts Update

[@tomfurmby88]

First of all thank you for the informative video's. Not many provide a 1 year update which is great. But reading through the comments and having watched the video I have concluded that it wasn't a magnesium deficiency at all. I agree it was a deficiency. So if magnesium didn't fix the symptoms then what deficiency have they been suffering from? I think Roger has given the most important hint, magnesium aids the transport of phosphorous. So adding magnesium did help but in one whole year did not fix the problem. Reddening of orchid leaves is caused by a phosphorous deficiency. A white phal hybrid should not have red leaves as you point out. Yet yours does and still does after a year of feeding magnesium. Even Rainmix contains 1/4 the amount of Phosphorous as it does Nitrogen or Potassium. I am suspecting a monthly application of bloom booster should resolve any Phosphorous deficiency. Bloom boosters are highly concentrated for Phosphorous so one application will last the orchid for a few watering's. So look at what percentage the Phosphorous is compared to the other macro nutrients on the fertilizer bottle. Orchids will not need as much phosphorous as the other 2 but 1/4 of the amount as found in the Rainmix is in my opinion too low. I have come to this video as I too have encountered reddening and stunted growth on some orchids. Could it be a magnesium deficiency? Maybe sure, the Rainmix is equally low in Magnesium as Phosphorous. So my theory is that Magnesium helps to transport the Phosphorous but giving it more Phosphorous would actually fix the problem. I wish I had the motivation to make a video on the subject like you bumblebee but this comment will have to do. If anyone wants to add any experience they have on the subject that would be great. Traditionally orchids were fertilized with balanced fertilizers like 20-20-20. Then Rainmix and the MSU formula was introduced with 4 times less P which would be the equivalent of 20-5-20. I know a lot of micro nutrients were added (but not Nickel! - yet - that will be Rainmix v 2.0 which will be even better) so great results were achieved but why were great results achieved? Was it only because of the micro nutrients or was it because P was 1/4 the strength in the new formula? My old fertilizer had 1/2 the P content in comparison (including all the micronutrients and Nickel) . I switched to Rainmix because it is a lot cheaper than my previous fertilizer and I am happy with the growth rate but at the same time some issues are appearing. So could it be as simple as a lack of P in MSU and Rainmix formula's? I said as simple as yet we know figuring out which nutrient does what is not that simple. Hundreds of scientists will have had a logical reason for reducing the P content. Who knows. I unlike others have concluded after watching these video's that it was not a Magnesium deficiency. But interestingly probably around 100 people having watched the video have decided to copy the assumption and apply not just small doses but huge doses of Epsom salt which contains more sulphur than magnesium. The 405ppm the 1 gram per liter adds will be roughly 200ppm magnesium and 205 ppm sulphur. According to Roy Tokunaga from H & R Orchids orchids only need a magnesium level of 25-50ppm. 1 gram per liter is very high as one can see actually. I would recommend 1 gram per 10 liters to be enough to supply all an orchid needs but I hope my theory that it might have never been deficient in Magnesium helps someone else also figure out what else it could be.

[@bumblebeesorchids3408]

Hi Tom, sorry for replying so late. Thank you very much for your sophisticated analysis and for providing more information on the topic. Unfortunately I don’t have time or capacities for another experiment like this at the moment. If I remember correctly there wasn’t any magnesium in my fertiliser back then, so I am quite sure this was part of the issue. But there might have been a phosphorus deficiency besides the magnesium deficiency like you explained. I will pin your comment to the top of the comment section to make sure more people will read it so that they will be able to form a view on the topic. I don’t appreciate youtubers sharing superficial knowledge leading to wrong conclusions in hundreds of viewers. It’s difficult to find a balance between wanting to share information and misleading people. Due to my incomplete understanding of the situation this might have happened here, too. I wish there were an Swiss army knife orchid fertiliser suitable for every purpose and need. 😬

[@judymoraga5536]

Hi BB! Just wanted to compare notes. I had the same symptoms and after I saw Rick's vid on migrating nutrients, I decided to try epsom salts about 2 months ago. I do not measure anything and tailor application timing to each affected orchid. I use a scant pinch to a gallon of tap water and results are already visible. In some cases, reversable. In ine amazing case, I also had severe leaf loss partly due to vacation time and my sister watering in the crown of a phal. When i came back, I immediately repotted one healthly leaf with a few decent roots and started daily dampening with ES to the moss topping. Lo and behold, although I wanted new leaves, after 2 weeks a strong spike emerged plus 4 new roots peeping out!! I have not the heart to cut off the spike so will continue to dampen with my weak solution daily, together with flushing on Sundays. Every treated plant has an individual program and I am not fertilizing since I believe someone said the 2 things together do not mix well. Tx for sharing!

[@bumblebeesorchids3408]

Hi Judy! Wow, I wouldn't have expected an improvement in 2 months' time and it's great to hear that the symptoms were reversable in some cases! I'm really glad someone gave me the hint to use magnesium. Happy growing!

[@vildhallon4709]

Lovely video, your orchids look beautiful and I enjoyed listening and watching along while doing chores around my house. Happy growing!

[@bumblebeesorchids3408]

😃 Sorry for replying so late. That’s what I do, too. Happy growing! 🍀

[@ingridroberts6302]

Hi Bumlebee Great follow up video very helpful. I love your OrchidCollection app. I had tried using spreadsheets previously but your app is so much easier. Cheers from Australia Ingrid

[@bumblebeesorchids3408]

Thank you so much for letting me know, Ingrid! I'm very glad you enjoy the app. Cheers from Europe to Australia! Happy growing! :)

[@lucythecat529]

Thank you for doing the comparison video. It was quite helpful to see the differences in the plants? I thought the older leaves would have improved . But now I know not to expect that. I did use magnesium for a while last year. Haven't been using anything in the winter. Will have to start again soon.

[@bumblebeesorchids3408]

I thought the older leaves would improve a bit as well, but instead the plants were giving up on them. I'm not good at changing my habits, but luckily using Epsom turned out to be quite convenient, the cristals didn't clump together although I kept the little container in the bathroom and they dissolved easily. :) Happy growing!

[@sandrag8656]

It's a very helpful video and there are some very helpful comments. Thanks a lot for sharing. I'd love to see how it went and how your conclusions look like today. Love your videos very much, Bumblebee. 🥰 Unfortunately there are only a few of them. Are there some new to come?

[@bumblebeesorchids3408]

Hello Sandra, thank you very much for your kind words. There’s an update on this particular plant in the thumbnail, I repotted it recently. There are going to be new videos coming sometime, but I’m not sure when I’m getting around editing. Thank you so much for sticking with me. Happy growing! 🍀

[@LUCKEY11202.]

Great information and I love your before/after explanations of your phals . I wish I had seen this sooner,I might have been able to save my mother’s phal.

[@bumblebeesorchids3408]

Thank you, Gracie. :)

[@nats6190]

Thank you so much for sharing. I'm seeing what I now recognize as magnesium deficiency on many of my Phals, Cattleyas, and Dendrobiums. They'll be getting an epsom salts treatment shortly.

[@bumblebeesorchids3408]

Hi Nat, you might want to read Tom’s comment (it’s pinned), too. Happy growing! 🍀🌱

[@nats6190]

@@bumblebeesorchids3408 Thank you! Reading it now, very interesting.

[@selinaboyd1806]

This is a very nicely done video. I'm happy your plants are doing better.

[@bumblebeesorchids3408]

Thank you, Selina. :) Happy growing!

[@fificorina]

This is a great video, thank you for the effort of putting it together!

[@bumblebeesorchids3408]

Thank you Corina. Happy growing! :)

[@kamisahmanap5598]

Thank you for sharing your findings. 😊 ..those leaves are to die for ..so glossy ..

[@bumblebeesorchids3408]

Thank you, Kamisah, you're very welcome. :) Happy growing!

[@orchidsgardeninengland1682]

Excellent informative video; your orchids are thriving, so will check out Epsom salt. Thank you for sharing and have a good weekend 😁

[@bumblebeesorchids3408]

I'm not able to tell if the others are doing better, because I didn't observe them as closely as the ones with chlorotic symptoms. I don't know if it's the best way, but I think it's worth trying if your fertiliser lacks Mg and your plants have similar symptoms. Happy growing, Margaret! :)

[@kayte13]

thank you for showing your Orchid probs. it really helps me.

[@bumblebeesorchids3408]

Thank you, Kayte. :) Happy growing!

[@orchidsadutchy4940]

I have given magnesium to orchids that got too much sun and were a little purple. I might be wrong, but it seemed to me that it helped them to recover faster. I suspect my C. Mini Purple 'coerulea' had a magnesium deficiency, so I gave it magnesium, but I didn't remember to give it too many times. It had a leaf with lots of strange spots, and I hoped the spots would disappear. The leaf looks a tiny little better now, though it still has the spots. Some sort of discoloration. But the pseudobulb it produced after that looks much healthier, and it is very plump. :) I think it might be difficult to be sure when it's magnesium deficiency, but there is no problem with giving some extra magnesium. If the plant needs it, it will do it good, but I don't think an excess of it could be bad, and probably the plant wouldn't even absorb it if it didn't need it, or would secret the excess out (I think). So far as the total ppm of the water is not too high, I would add magnesium when a plant looks like it might need it (at least, if I wasn't too lazy and I remembered to do it! But I often forget.). Roger put an interesting link in his comment. All your phals got very healthy new leaves. It looks like a success to me, though the spots don't disappear from the old leaves. It's interesting to see how many different kinds of phals you have, specially the ones with very long leaves. They look so beautiful!

[@bumblebeesorchids3408]

I agree, it's quite difficult to be sure if it's magnesium deficiency or something else. I was quite sure I had it once I noticed that my fertilisers don't contain any magnesium, read about the translocation mechanism and had so many light discolorations mainly in older leaves. I don't know if an excess would be bad, but it doesn't seem to be easily overdosed. We're thinking about going on a little hike, but I'm a bit reluctant since it's so cold. :D I hope you're having a very nice weekend!

[@ericahannickel3244]

Thanks so much for the thoughtful, informative update! Your video last year made me realize that several of my phals had magnesium deficiency as well--you saved probably 10 of my orchids for me! It kicked off a long research project for me about magnesium, water quality, and fertilizers. I ultimately gave my orchids several light doses of epsom salts, and then switched over to the MSU formula fertilizer for the long-term. The results have been dramatic! All of my affected phals (and several other types) are doing so much better now, and at least a half-dozen of them have huge spikes this year, almost all of them with multiple branching stems! My phals also had some reddening--and this year I gave my phals probably too much of a fall "cool down"--so it might be from slight cold damage that I see increased reddening, but I noticed that with some of them, the reddening also grew dramatically when I gave them epsom salts. These were phals that always had a slight red tinge (and accompanying darker-colored flowers). I wonder if the red will go away with better long-term fertilizer? Anyway, thanks again for kicking off a big year of water/plant chemistry research for me, and one that has offered up amazing results. I think I remember you wishing that you had some MSU Formula fertilizer a while back. I'd be more than happy to send some to you in thanks for your lovely videos!

[@bumblebeesorchids3408]

I'm glad the video helped! :) It's so great to hear that your Phals are thriving with the MSU fertiliser. I'm not doing too well with my complex hybrid Phals. It's interesting that some your Phals with darker flowers showed an increased reddening. Maybe that's their natural tinge that was emphasised by Epsom salts? I don't know the mechanism, though. I'm not too worried about reddening anymore, but I'm glad the light/yellow colour decreased. Due to customs regulations it's not possible to ship MSU fertiliser to my country, but thank you so much for considering it. :) Happy growing!

[@NextGrowth]

Awesome bright plants! Congrats!!!!

[@LinardBraslin]

Interesting comparison, but I believe if you water your orchids infrequently then they will likely not have a lot of time to absorb magnesium even if you provided it in high concentrations. Maybe they might be lacking other minerals as well or maybe the Ph is not quite right...

[@bumblebeesorchids3408]

I think that's an important point. I've been checking the pH levels, they seem to be ok, but during dry times they cannot absorb anything. At the moment I'm not able to provide shorter wet&dry cycles, but I'm trying to focus on better water supply in the future.

[@GardeningatDouentza]

Another thoughtful and informative video. Thank you.

[@bumblebeesorchids3408]

Thank you, Rachel. Have a very nice weekend. 🍀

[@alanm9523]

I've heard good things about magnesium, I'm going to use it on my orchids too :)

[@bumblebeesorchids3408]

I'll continue using it as well. Happy growing! :)

[@adnanalikhan6890]

@@bumblebeesorchids3408 Hi. Sorry for hopping on someone else's comment section. But how much do you use it? and how frequently? Because I'm quite certain my pineapple plants had a Magnesium deficiency. Same result as yours. Onlybmine was A LOT more severe. The chlorotic leaves remained the same, newer leaves came out good. I'm not sure if the treatment worked or am I supposed to continue giving or will I go excess? Any input is appreciated. Thank you.

[@NYCOrchidQueen]

great update! ♥ I think they definitely looks better

[@bumblebeesorchids3408]

Thank you, Yoli! :) Happy growing!

[@qveenissac]

How much epsom salt did you use? 1/4 tsp/gallon? Couple grams/liter? You can buy a bag at the drug store/chemist for a few bucks. Not sure where you're located but here in the states even "dollar stores" carry it. Also for the MSU fert be sure to get the RO version (reverse osmosis) not the well/municipal water version. I use tap so I bought the latter but it lacks the 8% Ca & 2% Mg the RO version has. Even using Los Angeles tap water that is hard w/ minerals (Inc. Ca & Mg) I would buy the RO version next time. 13:55 when u show the red tips--yours is likely indeed heat induced but the anthocyanin (red/purple coloration) in leaves can increase w/ it Mg deficiency. It happens typically after being exposed to cooler temps tho temp swings warmer can bring out Mg deficiency too as chlorophyll production increases. Mine started this summer when the temps went up as they were in a (indirect) bright spot that was warm. Edit: watched the 1st vid after this one & seems you used 1 tsp & were already pretttty pretty read up on the Mg info lol

[@bumblebeesorchids3408]

Thank you very much for commenting. I got the epsom salt from our local pharmacy, finished the box and switched to using CalMg fertiliser every once in a while. Thank you for letting me know your thoughts, it’s been a while that I did my research on this topic so it’s good to refresh my knowledge. 👍☺️ Happy growing!

[@JACKIELVSGOD]

Beautiful video. I can tell you love your orchids.

[@bumblebeesorchids3408]

I do, indeed. Happy growing and thank you! :)

[@PIAMUSA]

I haven’t try using eponym salt and magnesium helps orchids....I will look into that...thnx for the share....

[@bumblebeesorchids3408]

You're very welcome. Happy growing! :)

[@josephrapp7211]

Magnesium deficiency is first seen in middle of leaf and spreads outwards. I see mottling on your leaves..nitrogen deficiency probable cause.

[@bumblebeesorchids3408]

Thank you for commenting, Joseph!

[@janaespandrova2724]

Thank you for this video!! Because I have the same results as you have. Only the new leaves are OK now, the older ones stays almost the same, "not cured". So I am happy, that that is possibly a normal reaction... :) Thanks!

[@bumblebeesorchids3408]

Thanks for sharing, Jana. I consider it to be a normal reaction, although I hoped for a complete cure. Happy growing! :)

[@paige6042]

I had no idea that phals could have so many spikes on one plant. On my other plants, I usually cut dying leaves off because I was taught that they take energy from the plant because it tries to keep the leaf alive. What you said is completely different. Have I been mistreating all my plants or are orchids different?

[@bumblebeesorchids3408]

I think it comes down to personal preference if you remove them early or not. But I'm convinced that plants (orchids included) take everything they possibly can out of dying leaves and reuse the nutrients. If a leaf has an infection, though, it can be necessary to cut it to prevent it from spreading.

[@sharonholmes4444]

@@bumblebeesorchids3408 I so agree with you about dying, yellowing leaves on Phals. Leave them on till they almost fall off by themselves 👍

[@sabrinamachadosgarden3191]

Woww! Those leaves look so healthier! Thank you for the update! Happy growing !

[@bumblebeesorchids3408]

Thank you, Beena, I think it did them good. :) Happy growing!

[@likowahine5825]

Thank you for sharing BumbleBee. I liked seeing the difference.

[@bumblebeesorchids3408]

Thank you, Iiko. Happy growing!

[@stuartkaufman6131]

You said 405 PPM of TDS of Epsom salts in your water? That sounds like quite a lot... Do you still use the same amount of magnesium as you did when this video was made?

[@bumblebeesorchids3408]

I got myself some CalMag this year, so I don't use pure Epsom salts at the moment. The Amercian Orchid Society recommends even more, 1 tbs/gallon of water, but I've never used that much. www.aos.org/orchids/orchids-question-answer/epsom-salts.aspx Here I talked a bit about it at 6:08: kzbin.info/www/bejne/homcpoOPZc6eeqc My e.c. meter's unit is µS/cm, though.

[@Melelinaioke]

Thank you!!! I'm going to start using epsom salt more often now😁

[@bumblebeesorchids3408]

😊 Happy growing!

[@anoniemmoet8984]

@@bumblebeesorchids3408 in a gallon : Add 16 drops of CALI MAG Add 1/5 tea spoon Epsom salt Add orchid fertilizer Add 16 drops of seaweed extract and feed your orchids . Next week only CALI MAG +EPSOM SALT Next week CALIMAG +EPSOM SALT+ ORCHID FERTILIZER +SEAWEED EXTRACT Next week only water and flush the roots good . This 4 week's complete together is a month , repeat this cycle and Believe me your orchids will grow like crazy . You can do this with any type of plant only instead of ORCHID FERTILIZER use plant fertilizer.

[@sunahyun6339]

Thank you for this update, very helpful!

[@bumblebeesorchids3408]

Thank you, Sunah. I'm glad you liked the video. Happy growing! :)

[@evywidjayanti259]

Can I mix magnesium sulfat +calsium nitrat,is that ok?

[@bumblebeesorchids3408]

I have no idea, sorry. Maybe someone else knows, there's quite a lot of information on fertilising on the internet.

[@FernandaNascimentoOrchids]

Wonderful video, congratulations. You are right, your plants really improved with the use of magnesium. By the way, I am in Europe too and in my country I can buy Rainmix which has calcium and magnesium in it. If I understood correctly Rainmix is the correspondant of MSU in Europe. It is a very good fertilizer.

[@RogersOrchidsGardenandBonsai]

Sorry to 'butt in' but take care with the rainmix - it has an excessive amount of Sulphur in it (4 times what other fertilisers have) and it can cause root-burn on exposed roots even at lower than recommended doses. It is good stuff, but where there are exposed roots that dry quite fast, several of us KZbinrs found that roots were being burned in some cases quite badly.

[@bumblebeesorchids3408]

Hi Fernanda, thank you. I thought about getting rainmix, but I tend to be a bit lethargic when it comes to changing my habits and decided to first use up the fertilisers I already have. I've had problems (that's a strong word, I don't really mind) with root burn with various fertilisers and came to the conclusion that it's hard to avoid in my setup. Do you use rainmix and do you have more root burn than before? Happy growing! :)

[@bumblebeesorchids3408]

Hi Roger, thanks for letting us know. I'm still undecided wether I should give it a try or not. I like the fact that it has Ca and Mg in it, two nutrients that are underrepresented in my fertilisers to say the least.

[@FernandaNascimentoOrchids]

Thanks for the information Roger. I never noticed it maybe because I feed low but in most waterings. I will watch it carefully.

[@FernandaNascimentoOrchids]

Hi Bumblebee, I never noticed any root burn maybe because I feed low and frequently. But in view of the information I will have to watch out.

[@missanna208802]

The first plant in your video, I have a very virused plant with leaves that look just like that. I too thought it was magnesium deficiency initially. Search for Photos of ORSV and look at the leaves. Crittercreek labs only charges five bucks.

[@bumblebeesorchids3408]

Thank you. I searched for photos of ORSV and compared them to my plant, but I don't think they look too similar (no pitting, no necrotic lesions, no colour breaks in the flowers).

[@missanna208802]

www.tari.gov.tw/english/df_inc/get_content.asp?t=p&n=/english/news/index-1.asp?Parser=9,15,79,,,,1304 There's no pitting, necrosis, or color break here, either. There may not be any necrosis or color break, but that doesn't mean it's not. I also highly suspect, because it's true of humans as well, and because many wise old orchid growers say the same..healthy individuals can display no symptoms. From a logical standpoint, that means it possible and maybe even likely that highly stressed plants will show more, and that there's an entire spectrum in-between.

[@bumblebeesorchids3408]

Thank you for the link! I cannot enlarge the picture, but now I see why you say it looks similar to the ORSV infected leaf.

[@denisesorchidparadise1411]

would you recommend Epson salt over Cal/Mag? Thank you

[@denisesorchidparadise1411]

glad you got good results from the Epsom salt!

[@bumblebeesorchids3408]

Hi Denise, I've never tried Cal/Mag and I am not well versed in fertilising. Calcium is another nutrient that my fertilisers are short of, that's why I'd probably give Cal/Mag a go if it were easily available. Happy growing! :)

[@bumblebeesorchids3408]

Thank you. :) Have a nice Sunday evening.

[@denisesorchidparadise1411]

do you use the MSU formula?

[@bumblebeesorchids3408]

No, it's not available in Europe, unfortunately.

[@pammclennan1642]

So how much Epsom salt did you use to make a weak solution?

[@bumblebeesorchids3408]

Hi Pam, I think I used about 200-500µS/cm most times I watered, that should be about 130-220ppm TDS. But I'm sure I forgot to use it a couple of times as well. Happy growing!

[@sharonholmes4444]

@ Pam McLennan...1/16th of a teaspoon per gal of water for a weak solution. Source... "orchid whisperer" on you tube.

[@SvetlanasHappyOrchids]

Hi bumblebee-) don’t know your name... my name is Lana, got the app Orchid collection... it’s helpful! Can you tell me if there is a way to look at pics after I upload into it... I mean.. zoom ... or save them to my photos later... from the app? Thanks!

[@bumblebeesorchids3408]

Hi Svetlana, sorry for the late reply. There's no way to zoom or save them to your photos later. Only the other way round: taking and saving the picture in your photo library and upload it to the app. Here's a walk through video where I talk about the features that it has: kzbin.info/www/bejne/op7Iomp7pL9_fsU I hope there are going to be more features in the future, though. Happy growing! :)

[@jeffkubos751]

You have to use the Mg with Calcium not alone.

[@bumblebeesorchids3408]

Hi Jeff, I do so now. But why is that necessary?

[@jeffkubos751]

@@bumblebeesorchids3408 I've seen that it's chemistry hence the product called Cal Mag. I've killed over 10,000 dollars worth of ochids because of these two elements not being in my fertilizer.

[@suethompson6497]

@@bumblebeesorchids3408 Since this post was a while back, you may already have the answer, but if you don’t, check out Rick L channel on KZbin. He beautifully explains about nutrients requirements for orchids, PH levels and absorption of nutrients and why. Love your orchids and channel.

[@cillaestevinho]

Great video

[@bumblebeesorchids3408]

Thank you, Priscilla, happy growing!

[@arturof7391]

Nice! Great news

[@bumblebeesorchids3408]

Thank you, Arturo. :) Happy growing!

[@richardlawton1023]

Very nice

[@bumblebeesorchids3408]

Thank you, Richard!

[@aprilcooke8340]

Purple spots, too much light. Super dard green, not enough light.

[@bumblebeesorchids3408]

Yeah, light is a contributing factor, indeed.

[@bratbabyp9370]

this is probally the vid30 i was looking for a yr ag0

[@bumblebeesorchids3408]

I don’t quite understand what you mean..?

[@richardwhite4956]

Thank you

[@bumblebeesorchids3408]

Thanks for stopping by, Richard. Happy growing! :)

[@Sera-dc1pv]

Very good video before and after that's it thx❤️❤️❤️🌷🌷🌷

[@bumblebeesorchids3408]

Thank you, Sera! 🌸

[@debbie8783]

Micro semens per $%#@. .. U lost me almost stopped viewing the video. English only pls.

[@bumblebeesorchids3408]

🤷🏼‍♀️