Magnifiers

My experience and suggestions with Magnifiers.
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[@EthanRavenWing]

Astigmatism confirmed lol

[@andersalbertsson215]

Thanks for mentioning the zeroing process- I’ve definitely noticed you can induce POI shift through magnifiers alone so nice to hear someone knowledgeable clarify that it’s zeroed separately from your red dot’s controls

[@danmosse9170]

I had the same experience. Used a 3x Aimpoint magnifier ten years ago and swore off magnifiers after three months of use. Came back to give them another go last year after the LPVO craze left some things to be desired. Noticed more of a POI shift when the magnifier is butted up against the red dot or holo, at least with the Eotechs. It was far less when pushed it further back towards the eye.

[@Skidjit]

Solid timing, just made the purchase of going to a magnifier yesterday.

[@samhinnant4416]

Love my Eotech 5x Magnifier.

[@dar5647]

What dot do you have paired with it, and have you used other magnifiers? Im thinking about getting a g45.

[@UnobtaniumsQuickReviews]

@@dar5647 I paired a G45 with a T2. It worked very well.

[@NebulousCat]

During a carbine class I was able to consistently hit man size steel silhouette targets at 300 yards with no magnification with my red dot and a 16" AR. I only use my 3x magnifier for zeroing red dots and shooting small groups. I'm using an Aimpoint magnifier.

[@UnobtaniumsQuickReviews]

Magnification is awesome for low probability shots, though. Say, a exposed shin, etc.

[@jayonez137]

I really love my Trijicon 3x magnifier I’m running it with my T2

[@Supercereal4]

I use a PA micro Pegasus magnifier with an aimpoint comp m5b The Pegasus has a built in ranging stadia and the m5b has a built in range adjustable turret. With that combo I can range a silhouette target from 200-600 yards, and dial the sight to the appropriate setting and engage

[@John.3]

G33 goated in the sauce, you have been warned

[@KineticConsulting]

I don't even know what that means...

[@John.3]

@@KineticConsulting mission accomplished; great channel man!

[@gabrielchatwin7459]

​@@KineticConsulting zoomer talk for the best available

[@breakingcomedytv]

I’m a zoomed and I didn’t even know what that meant… 😅

[@AJohnSmith]

He means the G33 magnifier is the best. Obviously doesn’t know of the 35. Pshaw.

[@jmmartin7766]

Lol-- Wish I'd stumbled across this video three days ago, because two days ago, I bought my first magnifier after boatloads of research-- My last "Army issued" weapon was a 20" A2 w/irons, so this is pretty "new" to me. Good thing is: #1) I started off humbly with an entry level Vortex VMX-3T, so I'm not too far in 'price wise'... I do like it and I'll probably keep it for a while, even though I'm already ready to 'up grade.' lol! And #2) it's already been a valuable learning experience including how to "Tetris" everything within my limited rail space and still have useable eye relief when I'm done. Think I need to just buy another AR and "start over" using what I've learned 😏 Subbed

[@Militaristics]

now I have to go to the range this weekend and spend some time with my mag

[@dennissteininger5227]

Holosun AEMS with Vortex Micro 3x, love the combo

[@dd1dogg234]

What mounts do you use for both? I’m rocking what they came with but am thinking about upgrading to scaleworks + unity.

[@ramirogarza3rd]

I got an eotech xps with a primary arms magnifier. Muah i love it

[@yetisuncle666]

That does it, I'm sold... I'm gonna go get into the magnifier game..

[@jhutch1470]

I use a Romeo 5 XDR with a Juliet 4, all at 1.63 height. I'm going for the Juliet 6 next, and move the Juliet 4 over to my .450 bushmaster build.

[@michaelnyden8056]

I love my all Holosun magnifier and aems optic setup but 3x doesn’t add much in my opinion over 1x. Primary arms is coming out with a new 6x soon that I might look at but perhaps it would be a better move to scrap it all and move to their new 5x micro prism with cantilever mount and twelve o clock red dot mount as the whole system would be lighter overall and would allow heads up passive aiming under nods better through the top mounted red dot. The only thing I don’t like is then I can’t use buis through 5x nor can I have the red dot as far forward as I’d like, but then again I guess two optic systems, one that is etched means I might not need buis.

[@Goldenwithaleash]

I like my 3x Vortex micro on a unity FTC mount behind my EXPS3

[@mrshort2379]

great magnifier info: however being a poor, I just wish I could afford a magnifier, especially with the lift mount, instead of flip to side.. but at this point I would be tickled to have a magnifier with either mount!

[@justinvillanueva4624]

Primary arms have very decent magnifiers for great prices!

[@beardedred0032]

Trijicon magnifiers have the best mounts as they can move the magnifier further back. Eotech and aimpoint have better glass.

[@BossHugo84]

Vortex Micro Is the Best 3x , Change my Mind . I have had them all .

[@ChrisRobertson09]

Eotech G33 best but Primary Arms SLx Full Size 3X is best for money

[@EOTechN9ne]

I agree.

[@EnriqueMuller]

Awesome video as always!!! Just curious why not move the T2 a couple pic slots back towards the magnifier so it's center over the ejection port?

[@roflchopter11]

But why do that? Why put any prioritization on centering it on the ejection port?

[@KineticConsulting]

I don't see a need to center it. I use the separation in the upper and rail as a reference point for all my optics.

[@EnriqueMuller]

@@roflchopter11 not implying it needs to be centered at all, I was just curious why not move it backwards towards the magnifier to decrease the gap which happens to center it over the ejection port... my PA 6x magnifier is longer on the Unity FTC and the RDS just happens to sit right above the ejection port center by pure coincidence :)

[@michaelnyden8056]

@@EnriqueMuller all of the army and even aimpoint and many instructors I’ve been to all maintain it’s better to have your red dot further forward for better SA and faster dot acquisition, not sure how true this is but there is a reason many prefer to keep the red dot further forward.

[@Pantone268Plus]

15:35 - new class coming "Long Range Red Dot" 😂 Great video as always Jon. I've been LPVO guy for a good while after Team ACOG for years. Dipping my toes into dot/mag combos now that I have NV capabilities.

[@CN11235]

Would you still run an elcan if you were good with the weight? My eotech + mag weighs about the same, but im not enjoying being behind the magnifier's glass

[@totempole21]

Is that a 10.5 inch barreled rifle.? Is that something you built or bought already assembled by the manufacturer.?

[@KineticConsulting]

It is my 11.5 signature rifle from Cobalt Kinetics. You can buy one here firearmsdepot.com/cobalt-kinetics-kinetic-consulting-bear-claw-11-5-ck-pro/

[@awsomedude9111]

Really interested in the Trijicon magnifier, few videos on it. I have a near sighted problem from computers and phone screens where the dot looks like a fuzz ball, you can basically experience it by putting your hand just after the red dot, looking a few inches ahead. I need to try a magnifier to see if anything is fixed.

[@preacher1776]

Questions.... 1) Was your eye relief setting based on the Army manual getting your nose on the charging handle? Did you send rounds downrange prior to setting the diopter, and if you did, what were the results? The latches pointing backwards seems like a good idea to prevent the magnifier from coming loose if you're prone and other obstacles hangups. Is it just the "scraping" when you grab the charging handle that is the issue? Man...long range shooting is an entirely different experience from most. BTW, signed up for you class in Texas late next year. Really looking forward to it.

[@dudelesslethal6910]

I tried magnifier and eye relief and eye box threw me off. I prefer non illuminated Leupold Mark 3HD 1-4 lpvo with reddot on top.

[@dt8694]

What I found helped is putting my eotech g43 on a Wilcox riser to get that correct distancing to my red dot.

[@nathanchappell1886]

I learned about zeroing magnifiers when I was hitting an 8 inch plate at 300 yards with my t2, and then was suddenly missed off the right edge when I flipped my g33 up

[@SchlomoShekelstein-vl4jy]

Too many comments “ I only use my magnifier for zeroing.”

[@DZ4295DBW]

You're supposed to zero the dot without the magnifier first, and then zero the magnifier to the red dot. That way you do not have POA/POI shift whether magnified or not.

[@themadminuteman]

Can hit out to 600y with RDS and 3x. It’s the better option vs LPVO in my opinion.

[@xxCOKERxxPWNxx]

Only if you plan to primarily shoot CQB. If youre primarily doing scouting,recce, mid range engagments, target ID, then a mid powered optic is more desirable and a piggyback/offset dot will make DO ifffffff you HAVE to enter structure. All about what scenario youre seeking.

[@themadminuteman]

@@xxCOKERxxPWNxx I don't disagree. To elaborate: 1x-X LPVO is more expensive, heavier, requires more setup and the 1x isn't as good unless you spend cash. You do have the advantage of higher magnification but lose some with the needed eyebox. Also you have reticles to use. 2x-XX with piggy back RDS is heavier, more expensive, requires more setup and is ideal for that 300y - 800y but as you mentioned suffers a little at sub 50y which you can train through, but won't be as fast. It also has the advantages of reticles. RDS + 3x is cheaper, easier to setup, more flexible (ie going just to RDS), lighter and gives capabilities out to 600y. You can even get a higher power magnifier and extend upon that. You don't get reticles unless you use something like an RDS with the ACSS. I think the RDS with magnifier just has the better balance to meet broader use cases, the trade off is more specialized uses or roles.

[@AJPPP]

Hey there! Do you move your magnifier forward when you use it for passive night vision? I have gone out to 350 with my 3x magnifier but I only have a civilian power illuminator and it was difficult to see in the texas fog past 300.

[@KineticConsulting]

No,i leave it where I have it. Environmental factors definitely have a say. Try on a clearer night and I'm sure you will be able to see farther.

[@IFarmBugs]

Eotech G45 👑

[@Citizensoldier85-ik6er]

I like the skateboard load out 👍

[@UnobtaniumsQuickReviews]

Are you saying that you can use a magnifier + RDS to shoot passively, if you make up for the transmission with a good illuminator? I cannot use my NX8 like that. It's close, but no cigar.

[@KineticConsulting]

Yup. Depending on the lighting environment you don't even need the laser to illuminate anything.

[@UnobtaniumsQuickReviews]

@@KineticConsulting I am guessing you'll have to tweak diopter to play well with the NVG? That's actually pretty insane. Why is it that comparing my NX8 to a G45/T2 combo at dusk, the NX8 provides better image? Is it the coatings on the NX8 screwing things up above 700nm? Also, just curious, where are you at with things? Still rocking LPVO's for general use, or have you discovered magnifier+RDS works better, or is this just exploration for the sake of it and sharing your findings? My G45/T2/FAST combo was a little over 19oz. My NX8/Acro P2/Reptilia 1.70 combo is 27oz.

[@KineticConsulting]

Most lpvo have move lenses than a magnifier. I think eye relief is also an issue. A mag has a much smaller eye box that allows the nvgs to see through them. I use and have both setups. I mainly like to explore different things on a normal bases.​@@UnobtaniumsQuickReviews

[@50shadesofFDE]

@Kinetic Consulting Any experience with higher mag models like the Eotech g45?

[@KineticConsulting]

The only higher mag I've used is the Aimpoint 6x

[@dar5647]

​@@KineticConsulting and?

[@KineticConsulting]

@@dar5647 I'd rather an lpvo at that point for how much space it takes up.

[@ridnthawave708]

Great timing! I’m currently looking at this combo vs my current 1-4 lpvo. Only thing I’m seeing at the moment and what’s currently out here, the magnifier mount from Unity is cool whereas, it pops up from rail and not hanging off to side. However, I am not full on operator with nods, chest rigs and such, so, that height is not what I want. Rather than having a more traditional height, like 1.5, I’m finding through experience that having to lift my head up more or higher is not working to well at the moment with higher mounts. Anyways, probably like all things, just more practice. Anyways, good vid and enjoyed the information..

[@jhutch1470]

I run a Romeo 5 XDR, and the Juliet 4, both are OPMOD from Optics Planet. Mine cam in FDE, which is cool points, and plates to set them up at 1.63 height. I'm lookin to move up to the Juliet 6, of course in 1.63 height. The 5 XDR has the 65 MOA ring around the red dot, that can be turned on and off. Lots of possibilities when you can run them at 1.41, or 1.63, and use the 65 MOA ring. I just love the setup.

[@ridnthawave708]

@J Hutch Thanks! I’ll look into that set up. I was hoping to stick with an aimpoint or EOTech set up, due to their well known quality. However, I’m learning to be more open about other manufacturers. And since I run buis on everything, i train for the time that optic has to be removed ASAP...

[@politicallyinsensitive4200]

I'm still like "eh, fuck them". My favorite would be a fixed mag like the ACOG. Still running a lpvo but really want to get a fixed 4 or 5x prism. Having astigmatism sucks.

[@Semiautoautomatic_shaman]

What footprint Unity do I get for the trijicon magnifier? G33 or g43?

[@jeffgeesaman4386]

I thought the adj. knobs on the magnifier were only used to center the magnifier with the optic. So when you say zero the magnifier, how is that changing the zero of the optic?? Parallax?

[@KineticConsulting]

Centering is essentially zeroing it. There will be minor adjustments due to the increase in lenses you're using so you have to shoot and adjust the center since our eyes can't perfectly center something.

[@roflchopter11]

Yeah, it'd be parallax. Specifically, parallax in the red dot.

[@Citizensoldier85-ik6er]

Red dots only have parallax to 25 meters pass that nothing

[@jeffgeesaman4386]

I should have mentioned that I'm using an Eotech EXPS 3-0

[@Syd-Arthur333]

Shout out to the 4x Sig Juliet paired with an Eotech on the unity mounts

[@interstatekingiketolliver3249]

Good info

[@rybaneightsix5085]

For those looking at the aems, beware: the glass clarity on mine is pretty dogshit. I got a 503cu and it is far, far superior in terms of clarity and ability to shoot both eyes open.

[@modularfabricationsltd.8910]

thanks!

[@ericshurtz4901]

Should have went straight for the Holosun magnifier they are amazing the eye relief is insane and even though the glass may not be expensive or Japanese it's really clear👍

[@loganvan358]

2:44 me two months after swearing off latinas again

[@ry3713]

How are you guys getting tight zero groups with a dot at 100.

[@KineticConsulting]

By aiming in the same spot and pressing the trigger without moving the gun.

[@ry3713]

Amazing.

[@xtremehamster]

@@KineticConsulting Straight and to the point.

[@joshuafreeman4459]

Hey bro it really comes to your position, target and capabilities. You need to lock the gun down and have a solid, repeatable position with no muscular input. For irons I really like the way the marine corps teaches it, lollipop the target as in, come from the bottom. Then the target really matters too. It needs to be big enough to see and get an idea of the center of the target. I like B8s or I’ll even draw a big ass box with contrast so I can see it. Most zeroing targets are too small. And of course you gotta be able to shoot 😊

[@ry3713]

@@joshuafreeman4459 appreciate the tips man. I have trouble seeing the center at that distance, so I'll def be trying out your target ideas. Cheers.

[@thomaszhang3101]

Kinetic consulting, suppose that you need to set up a rifle for urban environment, primarily 0-200m, possibly 300m engagement distance, and negate the need for night vision compatibility, what optic combination will you use? Red dot magnifier or LPVO offset? Will LPVO at 1X ever get close enough to red dot under normal shooting conditions to justify its use at close range? I know that LPVO at 1x is bad when it comes to unconventional shooting positions, but 35-45 degree offset should make up for some of that, right?

[@sullathehutt7720]

I'm curious about this as well. My needs are a bit different (I need passive NV capability) so I'm relegated to the red dot, but I wonder about how modern LPVOs compete with a red dot on the low settings.

[@kyleevans9462]

I am in process of converting my LPVO gun to a T2 with a mag. If you’re looking to shoot mainly within 200 yds, shoots some drills back to back with a red dot gun and LPVO gun that fall in that range category. It was eye opening how much harder my eyes had to work during target transition with an LPVO. The other added benefit is weight reduction. Like Duffy said you can pop off the mag when you don’t need it. This effectively takes a 36 oz sighting system (razor 1-6 with an offset rmr) to a 6 oz sighting system(T2 and mount).

[@righteousone8454]

"Will LPVO at 1X ever get close enough to red dot under normal shooting conditions to justify its use at close range?" Short answer: F NO! Long answer LPVOs have eye relief, not truly 1x on 1x setting, and will always be slower to acquire.

[@Heywoodthepeckerwood]

Get a good LPVO a and the problems at 1x are a non issue. spend time with a high quality one like the vortex Razor and you’ll see pretty quick. The field of view is actually larger than any red dot and scope shadow is a problem your own mind needs to get past. It doesn’t affect shot placement as much as people perceive.

[@Privat3Kag3]

Gotta be honest... I think you should really try the vortex Micro 3x. It beats the rest of em, in my experience.

[@SchlomoShekelstein-vl4jy]

+1

[@jakeminton74]

Ew

[@Privat3Kag3]

@@jakeminton74 have you shot through all of them?

[@jakeminton74]

@@Privat3Kag3 yes except trijicon and you might’ve missed but he already said he tried the vortex.

[@Privat3Kag3]

@@jakeminton74 I must've missed it then. I stand by my experience with them regardless.

[@ChrisHolman]

Solve the short eye relief and I'll run one.

[@ericshurtz4901]

Holosun 3x mag has great eye relief better than most!

[@DZ4295DBW]

Toss your dot and magnifier on an LT101 riser. Mount the magnifier all the way on the back of it and then mount the Riser towards the rear of the receiver. It'll push the magnifier closer to your eye.

[@thomaszhang3101]

Is there a good magnifier setup for 1.93 red dots? Also, how good is Holosun AEMS compared to Aimpoint and Eotech?

[@KineticConsulting]

I believe scalar works has a 1.93 mag mount. No clue on the AEMS, I don't have one.

[@thomaszhang3101]

@@KineticConsulting thanks!

[@joegasparro2395]

Scalarworks has your mount and yes the AEMS is awesome.

[@Upper_Room_Studios]

14:21 "Doo-doo experience"

[@fizzleshizzle8314]

Haha. Hahaha!! Doodoo! Poo poo!

[@StevenHabibi]

For science!!! 😂

[@MM-qm7og]

i'm surrounded by woods and trees, 1000s of acres. a magnifier is just extra weight. the filed of view for the 3x is not worth it when any tree is a bullet. Also, BASED pistol braced bro giving a middle finger to the ATF.

[@exquisitearangement]

I have noticed the addition of magnification to a dot, while trying to identify through thick foliage, helps you visually push through deeper into the brush

[@dar5647]

You could use a 4, 5 or 6x magnifier. Also a lot of magnifiers have qd mounts. You cant just drop half- 2/3rds the weight of an lpvo.

[@AFGixxeR88]

Cant believe we are actually going through this bs

[@Wedelj]

Magnifiers are based.

[@calvins4084]

def don't need to zero your magnifier, I don't know why ppl keep saying that

[@brysoncoufal847]

Yes you do… you need to zero the magnifier to the optic. That’s why magnifiers come with windage and elevation adjustments…

[@drtmi8789]

@@brysoncoufal847 those are so you can CENTER the dot in the magnifier. The magnifier knobs DO MOTHING TO POINT OF IMPACT.

[@brysoncoufal847]

@@drtmi8789which would be … wait for it … zeroing the magnifier.

[@Barnes-ml9wg]

​@@drtmi8789literally zeroing the magnifier

[@weaponeer8582]

Actually, ​​⁠Calvin and @drrmi8789 are the correct are the ones here. You DO NOT zero a magnifier. If the magnifier isn’t centered and but you can see the dot you will generally hit what you’re aiming at. The same cannot be said for an unzeroed red dot. Centering a magnifier is for convenience and usability. The human mind and eyeball tend to want the dot to be in the center. Plus on a flip mount, magnifiers don’t stay centered and may need to be centered from time to time. It feels better but not necessary.

[@2010GT500]

China

[@khann844]

4:20 you lose an inch and a half from eye relief because your optic is mounted to far forward.

[@tightspotpro6755]

Uh..... so is that brace registered lol

[@MM-qm7og]

1st. 😉

[@Wedelj]

Ah, a man of culture! I, too, remember the First Wars.

[@mcondon23]

Good info