What if Magnus Surrendered to Leman Russ on Prospero? | Warhammer 40k Lore

[@majorkill]

Magnus had some seriously bad habits, like picking the worst possible option each time he was presented with a chance to save the galaxy. Maybe if he had a Fum the Emperor would still be with us today : tryfum.com/MAJORKILL Code Majorkill for 10% off

[@the-wanderer111]

I don't know majorkill when TTS magnus said he did nothing wrong. I believed him, but the Emperor used flashbacks, so I now I believe the emperor. Also, Kitten x shadowheart is Canon. Kitten (going at mach 1000): ITS NOT FUCKING CANON!

[@Sciontabier]

Please make a Nykona Sharrowkyn/Raven Guard inspired major mini.

[@tiesvanpinxteren2122]

this is how i think the conversation between magnus vulkun and the big E happend, magnus his side of the story is true, the emp did offer this but to show vulkun he has no forgiveness for traitors he manipulates him into thinking magnus begged the emp

[@withlovefromlightindust591]

Hello Majorkill, Would you please make some lore videos on the Imperial Truth, the Imperial Creed, the Ecclesiarchy, and the High Lords of Terra? Pretty please? Thank you.

[@xv9021]

Majorkill my next request for the patreon is you slaying some bodypainted dark eldar cosplay girl with the sword of melbourne in live action

[@rexlumontad5644]

If Magnus sits on the Golden Throne and keep everything at the Imperial Webway contained, Big E would be free to go for a walk and asking Traitor Legions how's their apparently great health plans.

[@arcain_luna1089]

Love the reference

[@invictusaegis2653]

“I’m not apologizing”

[@2shadesofgray752]

"No he can't fly with his vampire powers!"

[@vseslavking5773]

Tzeentch: Whatever you do DO NOT let the Empereor leave that room! Under ANY cercumstance! Magnus: Actually, he just left, he said he was going for a walk All of Chaos: NOOOOOO

[@geargraphic2620]

I leave for one day and the catholics be crusading while the nazis are invading

[@jonharper8963]

Another factor to consider is that if the thousand sons legion remained loyalist and was present at the siege of terra then there would be a legion with a perfect counter to the daemons and sorcerous elements in the traitorous ranks

[@guywhodoesstuff3314]

Plus the whole part about Magnus taking over the Golden Throne, allowing Big E to fight and lead from the front

[@KCUFyoufordoxingme]

Horus would still spank big e, but further from life support, and magnus would just be emperor then. Possibly an apocalyptic scenario. Thousand sons would have been a snack for SoT Angron.

[@leonelimalevu2199]

​@@KCUFyoufordoxingmethat would be an interesting idea, having Magnus rule in place of his Father.

[@discountplaguedoctor88]

@@leonelimalevu2199 Agreed, assuming that he did something beyond vaporizing the High Lords the moment they started dropping in general competence.

[@RageAgainstTheDyingOfTheLight7]

​@@KCUFyoufordoxingmepossibly but chaos would be way weaker without Magnus and his legion enough so that during the siege at the very least delaying long enough for Guilliman to arrive causing Horus to have to face losing no matter what his fleet would be annihilated The Emperor and Sanginous wouldnt have to go into Horuses ship that was so obviously a trap leading Horus to have to attack The Emperor on his own ground or run away

[@rexlumontad5644]

*"I PUNCHED OUT ONE OF LEMAN RUSS'S HEARTS!!! WHY DOES NO ONE REMEMBER THAT?!"* - TTS Magnus the Red

[@jimzo1985]

Yet still got wrecked .... Leman russ .

[@Fuzzycat16]

@@jimzo1985 to this day i still believe magnus was holding back.

[@brandoncotton5714]

Cause he broke your back and left you to die. Russ literally walked out of the room.

[@griffionwyvrus9063]

Russ have two heart, you only have one back.

[@007JackBourne]

@@Fuzzycat16I believe Russ was holding back, Russ never wanted to kill his brothers no matter what he boasted

[@TheLoraxshadenough]

This video raises an equally important question, what would've happened if a different primarch was sent to arrest Magnus instead of leman.

[@gravebird398]

Khan would handle this. No shits given to Horus nor Emps, just going straight Magnus' sulking nest and "Okay, bro, care to explain?"

[@theguylivinginyourwalls]

​@@gravebird398 "I hear you've been doing strange things to your warriors."

[@clovisursa497]

Lion, being Big E's enforcer, would have been a great choice. He was even more loyal to Big E than Leman and would have told Horus to suck his on his forest instead of listening to him.

[@joshuakim5240]

Most of the other Primarchs would have wondered and asked. "Yo, space dad, you almost never second guess yourself due to that massive ego of yours, so what's the deal with this sudden second guess change of orders?" with Horus seething that his obvious plan didn't work. The main issue is that Russ specifically was looking for any excuse to attack Magnus due to his hateboner against all sorcery so he was probably the literal worst possible person to send to arrest Magnus and probably the literal only Primarch who could have/would have fallen for Horus' trick.

[@kandrs7445]

Honestly, the answer for a peaceful solution was Vulkan. Magnus only talked and tried to reach Vulkan. There is lore bits about a bond that doesn't get talked about enough. Even when they were about to have the final blow, Magnus was relieved... hell, happy when Vulkan said that he would listen to his space nerd of a brother. If Vulkan was able to be dispatched (i.e. not being in the company of Space Batman Who Laughs), Magnus would have eventually came back to talk.

[@Spectre2V]

It's kinda cool to think about the alternate situations for 40k. Especially within the Heresy

[@crimsonwolf866]

Without a doubt the most best part to have alternate lore is during the heresy. It's what made the setting now the way it is and just the thought of slight changes and how it effects the current setting is always exciting. If sanguinius fell / if Horus wasn't traitor/ if the missing legions weren't deleted / If guilliman had known of the heresy sooner / if anggron didn't have the butcher's nails

[@christiandauz3742]

What if the Changeling killed and impersonated Zagreus Kane prior to the Schism? Horus easily wins the Heresy

[@logangrimnar3800]

Yes, but I fear the day 40k Fandom turns into the "what if" in the likes of DBZ and Marvel. "What if Goku had a sister?", "what if Angron was a girl?", "what if Sanguinius had a septum piercing?? PART 26"

[@logangrimnar3800]

​@alphagonomegarius5124But why is no one talking about Sanguinius with a septum piercing, or the Emperors Heresy?

[@juliane.mfarias9285]

Thats why alternative Heresys are fun

[@Necroxion]

Small issue: not only would Emps be free from the Throne, but so would Malcador We'd have Malcador to prolly talk Alpha Legion into rejoining the Imperium, more effectively coordinating the Assassinorum, later the Inquisition, and able to retrieve the Grey Knights earlier

[@bandithyena4089]

if magnus still had his soul shards how would grey knights be created i wonder

[@Necroxion]

@@bandithyena4089like usual It's only their first Chapter Master that even had a Magnus shard In fact, they would probably be more powerful as now they might even be allowed access to Thousand Sons lore and training

[@bandithyena4089]

@@Necroxion ahh interesting

[@ILovedarkspeakerman]

I always thought alpharius was the one who stayed loyal and omegon became traitor because what's alpharius reason to betray the imperium and most importantly malcador

[@WhoreForTheLore]

Long live Malcador the Still-A-Fucking-Hero-Anyway 🥲

[@Mr._Galaxywide]

Another major plus that is if Magus stays loyal then Perty would, if not immediately, rejoin the loyalists. After all Magnus was Perty's only friend and with magus's help redeem himself, after all aside maybe the night lords the iron warriors were the most free of taint.

[@trimeerious4349]

Getting a video about how each of the pre herssy primarchs would react to and rule the current imperium would be pretty cool ngl , getting to see how each are in guillimans shoes would be great!

[@FilmCritictheone]

Yes

[@abdullahirfan9991]

I have returned to support thee, brother

[@thepropagandastudiosbrigs0927]

wonderful idea. although I feel Angron ruling would just be a human equivalent to Leroy Jenkins meets WAAAAGH!!

[@jebkerman5422]

​@@thepropagandastudiosbrigs0927The Craftworld Elder watching Fulgrum and the Emperors children create Slaanesh 2.0: "Ah sh*t, here we go again..."

[@ChristophelusPulps]

Having a full-strength Space Wolves legion at Istvaan would be a game changer, given the lore implications that they've fought Astartes before (not counting the Thousand Sons), and would be well equipped to handle the giant clusterfuck of that battle. It's possible the Horus Heresy gets crippled early on, devolving into a galactic guerilla war instead of a massive siege against Terra.

[@musicalDrebin]

after reading a bit more on it, i can kinda get why Magnus sulked and let his legion get decimated. he was told by titsnitch that he never truely understood the warp, and he was manipulated from the start. he realized how arrogant he'd been, and started to think that the other legions might have had a point. maybe he and his legion were dangerous. maybe it would be better if they were just destroyed. he'd allow his legion to fight to the end, while he endured the shame of his failure. after all he did believe the emperor wanted him dead. might as well let his legion go out with a bang while he goes out with a wimper. from that perspective i can kinda get it

[@duncangilbert622]

Magnus didn't want to fight back because he understood that chaos wanted the thousand sons and space wolves to decimate each other, effectively removing two loyalist legions from the board.

[@musicalDrebin]

@@duncangilbert622 oh yeah, forgot about that part. he knew the wolves would be needed badly, so that was another factor. thanks

[@josh-to3ze]

sounds dumb, emo, and unbearably pathetic for a twelve foot demi-god. which is on brand, i guess. still is pretty weird though

[@_easyconcept]

Not to mention that the two "lost" primarchs are hinted at having been executed/killed by the Emperor, so Magnus had very good reason to assume that the same would've happened to him.

[@justacheese34yearsago28]

​@@duncangilbert622damn that stupid he could literally surrendered to Leman peacefully and Loyalist would have Thousand son support back at terra bruh

[@WoundNick214]

One thing about Vulcan telling Magnus “he begged for forgiveness.” That was actually Big E, intercepting Magnus’ attempt at one last psychic conversation with Vulcan, taking his place instead. When the sequence is over and Magnus says “forgive me,” Vulcan ponders on what visions he is seeing. We all know Big E is a master manipulator so it’s hard to determine if this is a case of an “unreliable narrator.” I think the sequence in Fury of Magnus did occur, and that the Emperor is just trying to get in Magnus’ head.

[@rexlumontad5644]

Tzeentch would take it personally and amplify the Curse of the Flesh on the Thousand Sons Legion like what happened in Roboutian Heresy.

[@SpaceWitch144]

​@@petercaballero8059he did not. He was tricked that he did, but he didn't.

[@brettwood1351]

Honestly barring a few becoming something new like Arvidia becoming Janus, I think the Thousand Sons would be doomed. This is going to be the hardest thing of all for Magnus, as he will not want to lose them, and have to come to terms with his falling for Tzeentch's trick doomed his legion. At the same time, I see the Sons accepting this, and rather than falling to Tzeentch trying to escape their fate, deciding they will choose their own dooms, and fight against the one truly responsible. Via sacrificing themselves to the Golden Throne to help Magnus and the Emperor, or in glorious fucking over traitors and Daemons moments as they die. So by the modern 40K era, the Thousand Sons are gone, but remebered as some the greatest heroes of the Imperium. And it's not the Grey Knights, it's the Crimson Knights.

[@tonythetwitch5813]

Or he might just see it as part of his grand plan it is tzeench after all

[@brettwood1351]

@@tonythetwitch5813 Well yeah. Tzeentch is the guy who's victory condition is his plan failed, but that's okay, because it advenced like 30 other plans.

[@juliane.mfarias9285]

@@brettwood1351 Meaning that in this fictional canon. The Imperium gets loyal Magnus as a leader of the Grey Knights, but losses a Legion. Its kinda a fair deal.

[@zacharyweaver276]

The main problem with this scenario is Horus tricked Leeman into saying Magnus should be executed so a fight would break out anyways either when Leeman tries to execute Magnus or when he reveals why he's there or when Magnus' sons try to rescue him

[@thewerdna]

except even with Horus tricking him, Russ still tried to ask Magnus to surrender, since despite not getting along, he didn't want to kill his brother. Essentially Horus' change in order made Russ think killing him was actually an option, as otherwise he would have tried to capture Magnus. Has Magnus just surrendered, he likely would have taken him alive despite Horus' orders

[@zacharyweaver276]

@@thewerdna fair point

[@Writh811]

This ignores the fact that when Russ first showed up he actually tried to hail Magnus as he didn't want to kill him but got no reply. In the situation Majorkill laid out, Magnus surrendering willingly would definitely not have resulted in his death. Russ isn't going to get a willing and compliant Primach prisoner and lop his head off on the deck of the ship if for no other reason it would cause a war with the Thousand Sons legion in their sector of space. If the prisoner is compliant and peaceful but still has a standing army it is better to bring them back to HQ. Then if you execute them you are in a more defensible position for when/if their legion attacks. Also if Magnus gave himself up with an escort retinue of Thousand Sons it is doubtful that any kind of "rescue" team would be deployed since it was Magnus's direct command/choice. But basic tactical competence aside in spite of non-Russ fan's assumptions about him Leman is extremely sentimental, he has a wolf's pack sense of family. It's why he failed to kill Horus even though he was just one spear thrust away. It's why after fist fighting the Lion he just stopped and started laughing before the Lion knocked him out. Not sure why everyone thinks Russ is an Angron level murderbot, he's all bark when it comes to family.

[@zacharyweaver276]

@@Writh811 Yeah I'm not saying Magnus would die but I don't think the scenario would happen without a fight

[@MrRawrCEO]

@@thewerdna Which was strange and out of character given Lemon's personal hatred and general loyalty to orders.

[@petert8094]

I think that another consequence would be Perty being killed by Polux and the iron warriors being crushed. He came incredibly close in lore and if he doesn't have to contend with Dorn hitting the panic button I think he gets the job done.

[@SpaceWitch144]

He would be hitting that button anyway, these events are running simultanuesly

[@rakshithanand8262]

It’s not that Perturabo was under threat, he easily massacred the terminators sent to kill him. It’s that if Polux had stayed the Iron Warriors would have had to retreat, a massive blow to Perturabos pride. This is why he treats it as though he would have died, he was really bitter about it.

[@sorufa888]

It is important to note that the Dropsite Massacre, according to the timeline in the HH rulebooks, was 2 years after prospero burned

[@Historyfrek4ever]

The concept of emperor, talons, thousand sons and throne magnus supporting them desperately attempting to conquer a part of the webway during heresy sounds straight up awesome.

[@Ascension646]

My only qualm is that Horus at the point of Magnus breaking through the Terran wards wasn't a widely known traitor yet. Russ still took orders from his warmaster, and at that point the warmaster issued Magnus's execution. The wolves weren't just going to let them wave the white flag, they were gonna strangle them with it.

[@clementbianchini8651]

Video idea : "What if Eldrad did awaken Ynnead?" and "What if the Ynnari did defeated Slannesh?"

[@tzeentchlordoffates9268]

Unfortunately GW doesn't care for xenos

[@Pyre]

Also the Aeldar getting free access to all of their powers and tech again is a "We win" button, full stop.

[@tzeentchlordoffates9268]

@@Pyre vs the Necrons stop fighting each other for a few minutes

[@zach942]

@@Pyre nah even if they got juiced tyranids would nom nom whats left of them, or fall to the other 3 gods since slaanesh no longer has a claim on their souls

[@blackout1518]

Would be crazy. I just want to see how they would get the final sword from the palace of slannesh. Imagine eldar wouldn’t have a great time there

[@sovietunion7643]

i always kinda felt bad for magnus because while his fall is certainly his own fault by being arrogant, tzeetch was hardcore planning on his fall for decades if not centuries before hand, so i try to give him the benefit of the doubt as having the lord of schemes and manipulation directly involved in your fall from grace gives you some leeway. i still think magnus could be redeemed in the current setting as tzeetech is kind of a weird god when it comes to follower loyalty so i think give magnus his noble shard back and i think he would have the willpower to tell tzeetch to get fucked, even if it costs him the rest of the thousand sons.

[@120mmsmoothbore2]

His fall is most certainly the Emperor's fault. The Emperor in all his genius though alienating the second most powerful psyker in existence, not teaching him anything of the Warp or the consequences of meddling in it nor even letting him help him with the Webway Project was a good thing. Just the classic shoddy GW writing.

[@sovietunion7643]

@@120mmsmoothbore2 well i don't think it was just bad writing. im okay with characters in media being flawed even if they are super powerful, but they should have done a better job of showing the big E was still human and could make mistakes. they showed sigmar in fantasy (and AOS) being very human and despite huge power still was able to make bad mistakes, for instance that slaughter of the norsan tribes he did that one time that he regretted. big E just comes off as something more attune to a god rather than a human turned into a god, which i believe is a downside when he makes the same retard mistakes that a human would make.

[@120mmsmoothbore2]

@@sovietunion7643 Guy can wait dozens of millennia to slowly place himself into a position of power after the civil war that decimated humanity after the Golden Age of Technology but he can't seem to predict that the second most powerful psyker in the galaxy would cause massive issues to his highly sensitive plan. Can't predict Leman Russ, one of the most anti-psyker voices at the Council of Nikaea, would probably not be exactly level headed when going to confront a legion of psykers. Surely it's not bad writing, surely.

[@CloudSephiroth]

Another video idea- could the King in Yellow and his new army be enough to re-open and finish the webway project and defeat all the demons down there. I think that would be a great redemption arc of the custodes.

[@Butter_Warrior99]

Emps: Magni magic. Magnus: I know. Emps: Get on the Golden Throne. Magnus: Yes Father.

[@sepparatiz]

oh shit, the voices... the voices in my head... I can't get rid of TTS' voices from my head

[@dickysatria7268]

​@@sepparatizits canon voice :v

[@nailigniststarzear6689]

If I understand it correctly Chaos made sure that Magnus either join them or be deader than dead because Magnus was literally most important chess pieces in Heresy

[@samw.7929]

The Big E and Malcador played out the various "who gets to be Warmaster scenarios". Speaking of batshit insane. I wonder how Warmaster Conrad Kurze goes.

[@discountplaguedoctor88]

This is just too funny to NOT consider.

[@PhilipVosteen]

when the warmaster is so batshit insane that chaos just sits back, does nothing and the universe still goes to shit

[@SnakeEater776]

"Oh boy, here i go commiting genocide again"

[@fallentitan9811]

Just want to point out about the end there, it’s been proven that Magnus was offered redemption by the Emperor and that Vulcan has his memory wiped or changed by the Emperor after the meeting failed. Probably due to the fact that Vulcan actually partially sided with Magnus, saying that if offered redemption but had to give up his sons, he couldn’t do it.

[@novafox3244]

Would love to see a video about if Magnus let the Big E get rid of his legion when he offered and stayed on terra. He would have been much more reign in on his exploration of the warp and the barrier would have never been breached

[@jadedkratos5528]

If Russ followed his original orders to bring Magnus back to Terra I think Magnus would have reluctantly travelled back to Terra with him and told the Emperor everything he intended to when he accidentally ruined the webway project. I think the Emperor would have given Magnus the Grey Knights if he promised to help him fix the damages and power the Golden Throne.

[@scottruss6184]

The only problem with that is that Leman did follow his original orders, he tried to hail Magnus but was ignored.

[@davidtrujillo3025]

@@scottruss6184 After he wasnt hailed he then proceded to follow horus's order

[@jiyuhong5853]

@@scottruss6184 couldn't Leman contaced a comlink controled by a traitor thousand son who did not reply

[@GumboGumboGumbo]

Hoping one day you can cover the Pariah Crusade if they ever get around to finishing it. A lot of interesting implications for if the imperium dunked on the heart of the Pariah Nexus.

[@iluvpandas2755]

maybe he will

[@DarkApostleNoek]

In the last scenario I think it would make more sense for Malcador to still sit on the Golden Throne with Magnus going with the Emperor to face Horus.

[@royegabrieli5858]

Malcador sitting on the Golden Throne means he would die. Magnus could do it without dying therefore it makes sense they'd put him on it rather than Malcador, since his death is a big blow the Imperium.

[@ultra-papasmurf]

I find the idea of the Emperor rejecting Magnus begging for forgiveness being a derp version of the event. If the emeperor is this emotionless toolmaker and magnus is his most strategic tool atm he would do anything to return him

[@bahmot9501]

I'll keep asking for this because if there is one thing all 40k factions have in common, it's never giving up: Could you make a video on how someone could permanently kill one of the 4 chaos gods and (more interestingly) what would happen if they did ? I swear each of these is not copy pasted, not a single one.

[@JammesJack-td6gv]

I second this

[@leathermage]

Necrons can easily defeat not just one god, but immaterium itself. They only need to finish their Pariah project and entire galaxy would be cut off from immaterium.

[@Ronfost89]

I get that Fulgrim was getting corrupted at this point but if this is before he fought Ferrus the first time or even before he met up with Horus, (and thought of killing him right then and there but didn't) I think that getting called home by daddy has a good chance of working on Fulgrim. I think he still may have been just sane enough to obey this order, but yeah there is still a big chance of him going traitor.

[@BahadurSingh-mg8jj]

Could you do a video on how each loyalist primarch would react in guillemans position, AKA how they would run the imperium

[@richarddomzalski4232]

This is a concept I KINDA wish GW would play with. A WHAT IF type of series. Imagine a series where the old ones actually destroyed the necrons instead of just letting them go. Or if Horus won. And he became the ever-chosen. There is a lot of story potential right there.

[@Joshrouss]

I'm still confused why people say magnus didn't surrender. I remember reading the book that magnus was so upset about what he did he was actually ready to let everyone on Prospero die untill his legion started to fight back on their own because the space wolves were just slaughtering the population

[@iluvpandas2755]

They just either did not read the book and just watched youtube. Or he justs tells the wolves to not kill any of his population and just capture him

[@SirAshford]

Magnus granted us all this fantastic setting to enjoy, from a story-telling perspective he truly did nothing wrong.

[@dregspromise9659]

@majorkill could you do a what-if on Malcador returning I’m interested to see how people think he would effect the modern imperium and the inquisition

[@HeavensUndertaker]

Wonder if we could get a review/ ranking of 40k’s dopest helmets?

[@bryanroach6017]

My headcannon on why Vulkan remembers the throne meeting differently, is that it's due to one of those Emperor v Chaos Gods schemes: Tzeentch's plan is that kind hearted Vulkan would hold back against his brother if he thought he was redeemable in any way, which Magnus could exploit to best him. So the Emperor subtly altered Vulkans memory of the event, so that Vulkan remembers things a little differently, therefore showing no hesitation in his fight with Magnus in the webway.

[@bobjones5674]

One the aspects that makes a tragedy more tragic is how close is was to being avoided, and how much was lost. The Horus heresy novels really drive this point home, there are so many points where just a slight change would entirely avoid the grimdarkness of the far future.

[@StrainXv]

Yet, Horus told Letard to kill Magnus. Also, without the Thousand sons, Horus would've never been able to breach the Sol system. It was Ahriman that cast the spell that allowed them to literally jump right into outer orbit of Terra.

[@wrex4joy380]

This was actually a very interesting video, I wouldn’t mind a mini series where you go through each primarch talking about if they swapped sides more in depth

[@aethertech]

It goes like this: Magnus and Son's get cell'd up and shipped back to Earth. Magnus gets told to sit, stay, good boy on the golden throne and hold the gate to the webway shut. Son's get thoroughly inspected and interrogated. And de-armed/armored for sure. A few of them get little sub-thrones to help Magnus take a little load off. A few of them probably get sent to Malcador for 'tutoring'. A few probably get their heads snipped. Emps spends a bit of time playing penta-dimensional chess poker yu-gay-ho with Tzseench and un-binds Magnus and Son's from Chaos god.

[@darksider2903]

If Emperor didn't become a vegetable, after 10k years with webway in control, far better tech and with his primarchs, he would've whooped Tyranids and necrons would see the imperium as an actual threat! 👀

[@justinokraski3796]

Magnus should’ve sent a message to all his brothers before contacting the Emperor

[@iluvpandas2755]

True. Or after messaging Horus. Then ask the astropaths to legally spread the message without breaking Nikea.

[@YouthRightsRadical]

Yep. The only sensible thing to do was to give his brother Horus a call and ask to sign up at the start rather than waiting for what the Emperor had planned for him to come to fruition. If Magnus was fully onboard during the Herasy, he might have been able to mitigate the side effects of the Chaos power up that was destroying Horus' mind. Then they could have crushed the golden tyrant properly instead of needing to settle for leaving him on life support.

[@gtr5973]

What I want to know is why the hell nobody made more of the fact that early on Magnus literally traded his eye away to save his sons. No follow up questions from anyone? Hardly subtle by Tzeench and a massive red flag for the Emperor and Malcador that Magnus (the guy who spends all his time in the warp) was compromised by one of the chaos gods of the warp.

[@crilleedara]

Niice, loving these What-Ifs!! Now do "What if Lorgar kills Erebus early?" or something! 😎

[@РатмирБайдасов]

Galaxy if Erebus never existed:

[@shotgunsandsmoke]

If he killed Kor Phaeron earlier, Lorgar and Erebus probably would be fervent believers in the Imperial Truth

[@Jagonath]

The Thousand Sons themselves would have been a massive bonus for the Imperium, if used as back-up batteries for the Golden Throne.

[@lordcrakkin965]

MK, your content is always top notch and entertaining, this being said, this is one of my favorite videos you have done in a while. I LOVEEEE the "what-ifs" for 40K. The possibilities are endless and always fun to see when you predict something correctly.

[@transfan962]

Chief librarian from each legion

[@kingmcf2]

What if another Primarch wrote the Codex Astartes? Interesting thought experiment.

[@thehandofgod2864]

Imagine if Angron wrote the Codex Astartes.

[@kingmcf2]

@@thehandofgod2864 wonder how it would affect the imperium and the galaxy as a whole.

[@studentoo925]

Or you could reverse the question and ask "why mr. furry berserkerhead didn't go talk to anyone in person when he saw that they didn't resist before he started blasting"

[@Jack-0-lantern]

What if Erebus failed to create the ruinstorm? Or what if the ambush at Calth failed?

[@Kareszkoma]

1:03 I felt that. Didn't expect ASMR stuff on this channel.

[@MogDog66]

I think one of the best outcomes for the imperium would be for Malcador to survive the siege, likely requiring Magnus to get redeemed at some point and sit on the throne instead while the Emperor battles Horus. Malcador knew the Emperor's design for the galaxy after the crusade and knew what to work toward, he was single handedly running the imperium for him (even though on paper it was run by a senate). If we was given even an extra decade after the siege to set the Imperium straight and lay out all of his succession plans in detail, I don't think we would have seen the 10,000 years of stagnation and directionless Imperium that we have today. I think it's very telling how much the Emperor and Malcador didn't expect the siege to go based on how quickly Malcador had to dump all of his current plans and knowledge onto his acolytes before stepping onto the throne. If he or the Emperor knew with certainty that he was going to die on the throne, they would have laid out contingencies much more carefully than the brain dump that his followers got

[@Elthenar]

Another small point. If Magnus had surrendered after breaking the webway and the Emperor parked him on the throne, the Emperor would have had the entire Sons psyker Corp to take into the webway. Loyalist 1k sons psykers guided by the Emperor himself would have been hell on wheels against demons and Chaos

[@RamonChiNangWong078]

In the Fury of Magnus, when the Big E told Magnus to give up his legion. I think it would also be a awesome if the Thousands sons sorcerers join their father while he sits on the golden throne. All of them jump into the webway to fight demons in a blaze of glory. Also Lion el Johnson also broke the treaties of Nikea

[@Littlekaktus95]

Who did not break the treaty of nikea?😂

[@YouthRightsRadical]

@@Littlekaktus95 The Black Templars?

[@alecryan5962]

Alternative possibility for option 1 (Magnus travels to Terra in person): Magnus is confronted by Rogal before he's allowed into the throne room. He tries to explain how he knows Horus is being corrupted without it sounding like he broke the Council of Nikea's edict. Rogal, who has always been wary of psykers and trusting of Horus, refuses to accept Magnus' explanation and accuses him of trying to pit the legions against one another. He takes Magnus prisoner and brings him to the Emperor to be punished. Rogal tells the Emperor that Magnus is a traitor, corrupted by witchcraft, and is trying to incite a civil war. The Emperor, who is busy with the webway project, doesn't have time to figure out who is lying and decides to leave Magnus imprisoned until the project is completed (He's basically already made this decision once at Nikea, so it makes sense he would do it again). Tzeentch reaches out to Magnus in the Dark Cells and plays off his ego. Magnus was correct. He followed the rules. He was loyal, but was being treated like a traitor while the real traitor was plotting his war. Magnus still doesn't know who Tzeentch is, so when a powerful entity of The Great Ocean shows him a way out of the cells through a secret chamber under the throne room, Magnus sees an opportunity to escape and prove himself loyal by going to Horus. Magnus uses his thought-form to open the hole in the webway gate, not knowing what it is, and demons flood through. The Emperor is furious and Magnus and his sons flee through the warp, leaving the Imperium exactly how it was in cannon.

[@Taal111]

What if Magnus had not had a sulk and simply immediately come out to defend Prospero? With the planet's defences in full swing and the Cyclops literally turning Custodes inside out with his mind I think that may have gone a lot less well for the furries.

[@EmeraldPaladin777]

FWIW, Even deamon Magnus can't pierce the sister's of silence aura.

[@Taal111]

Yeah, but he's still a Primarch and the TS are still Astartes@@EmeraldPaladin777

[@jonathan6401]

How each pre-heresy primarch would react to the current imperium when placed in Gullimans shoes would be s cool video idea

[@JammesJack-td6gv]

Yes

[@samspeeds9838]

"Slow destruction by copious amounts of dope ass war" is a funny line that made me chuckle/smile

[@ajaxo85]

Its important to remember that despite apperances, russ's savagery was exactly that: An appearance. He could certainly clap cheeks but the whole mindless barbarian thing was simply something he was happy to let people see him as so they underestimated him. In reality he was very intelligent and tactically minded and if Magnus was offering to surrender he absolutely would have accepted it rather than deliberately lose troops to an assault. From there, its certainly possible he could have been reasoned with despite how stubborn he is during the long trip back towards Terra.

[@RealLifeIronMan]

When people say, "Magnus did nothing wrong," they don't mean Magnus made no mistakes. They mean nothing Magnus did was morally wrong. Before Magnus met the Big E, Big Red ruled over a psyker utopia. Magnus had every reason to see psykers in a purely beneficial light. Magnus had no desire but to serve the Emperor and benefit mankind. The only reason Primarchs, like Leman and Mortarian, gave for banning psykers was that magic was for nerds. The Emperor gave in to their whining to ban nerds. For reference, the Emperor didn't arrest Magnus for messing with forces beyond his control. Magnus was arrested for disobeying an order (the Emperor didn't even believe in) and accidentally knocking over the Emperor's sand castle. The fact that Tzeench was involved is tangential at best and not even known by the Big E. Magnus made every moral choice and, like a greek tragedy, had all his good intentions bear sour fruit. Magnus didn't betray the Imperium, the Imperium betrayed Magnus.

[@matthewswann2585]

Could you do a idea on what every primary was up to from being found to Ulinor (Horus heresy before the heresy) Love the vids !

[@comediccomrade5716]

Honestly, the whole burning of prospero thing is very well written. Like although some stupid stuff happened, its all a very tragic and unfortunate turn of events at the end of the day

[@astroboy6515]

It's fascinating to see how each primaries decisions creates a domino effect for the Imperium. Personally, I like to think about what the Emperor's vision for the Imperium would actually look like with no Horus Heresy. All legions loyal and humanity slowly controlling the Webway. Legions growing from 100,000 to millions, blitzkrieging any enemy through Webway portals while more stc's are discovered and technology grows.

[@CynicalPete]

I lean on the first scenario between Magnus and the Emperor being correct. Even if the Emperor was still planning on punishing him, there’s no reason he wouldn’t forgive Magus if for no other reason than to get off the throne and fix the Webway

[@kellerblair2952]

Then we also have the full might of the Thousand Sons holding the walls of the Palace; so yeah the traitors would be screwed.

[@juliane.mfarias9285]

I was just thinking this. I believe Magnus would return to Terra but with the massive damage in the Golden Trone, the Big E would already be there. Leaving Magnus with no other choice but to fight the siege (maybe he and Leman making peace at long last). I also dont see Leeman taking the full Thousand Sons Legion with him

[@lurkingedge]

What if Magnus did something right... and the Emperor was free to intervene in the Martian Civil War? The Fall of Mars is arguably the biggest factor in why the 41st millennium is as grimdark as it is.

[@wolflordgio6320]

i always questioned why didn’t he just go on his ship to Terra to warn the Emperor nothing in the warp could’ve stopped him.

[@antodiyo7523]

But it could delay him and there's warp storm blocking prospero and terra connection (the only path is through webway seal)

[@Halo2nothing11111]

The warp is extremely unpredictable, there are reports of ships entering then exiting the warp thousands of years later in realspace, while no time at all had passed onboard. Yes, Magnus is a massively powerful psycher, but Tzeentch is far more powerful. If he'd done that Magnus would have gotten to Terra after the Heresy had already concluded.

[@polmMM-uk1rz]

Thank majorkill for upluading so much videos very shortly!

[@lordalpharius5928]

Magnus should had contacted the Lion, Ferrus and Guilliman to send some forces to investigate Istvaan 3 along with his legion and one of them call Russ. By the time they arrived, they should had received Saul tarvitz distress call and plunge their legions to aide the loyalist third, twelfth, fourteenth and sixteenth legions. With the 13th and 10th providing fire support, 1st and 6th will provide the melee. While more esoteric forces raid the traitor ships. While Magnus teleports the most beastial wolves and monstrous ironwing and Dreadwing.

[@yuridominick4227]

Heres a video idea, what If the emperor was a better father. I'll take my check now please if you will

[@deathkorpsgrenadier2894]

Hey Majorkill, don’t know if it would be enough content for a long form video, but I’d really like to see your personal thoughts on the true identity of Lohoc from sons of the forest

[@usermanico]

If the Emperor and Magnus can communicate across the galaxy why Big E didnt zoom call Magnus and tell him to surrender to Leman

[@YouthRightsRadical]

Only explanation that makes anything resembling sense is that the Emperor wanted Magnus on Tzeench's team.

[@erickerr8822]

There is a least one missed major inflection point and that is when Magnus obtained a "cure" for the flesh change from Tzeentch. Without this the Thousand Suns die out, however slowly, which potentially slows down the The Great Crusade or sends Magnus and/or his legion on an entirely different arc.

[@dws20pitt]

I kinda want a shirt saying “magnus did everything wrong” with a QR code to this video.

[@wabush01]

Been watching for years now, thank you MajorKill for your hard work!

[@maevethefox5912]

I don't know that the Alphas ambush Leman if Magnus has surrendered and come with them. They were already a bit hesitant about following the Cabal, and I feel like the occurance of Magnus surrendering would be counter enough to what they were told that they'd go back to the shadows and watch.

[@rustkarl]

I was under the impression that Russ had falsified orders to execute Magnus. So surrendering would have done nothing to change the grand scheme of things. Only denying Tzeentch a load of dusty bois, which he might have just taken anyway.

[@jonasholm-mw5bn]

It could be a cool setting with Magnus on the golden throne, the emperor fighting in the webway and the loyalists fighting the traitors

[@sasanahadian2859]

Superb video as always @majorkill. Could you make a video dedicated to the Navigators, the major houses, their politics, relation to the overall Imperium and factions, etc? Would greatly appreciate it.

[@antoniomami4944]

Now we need a what if the iron warriors or death guard had remained loyal.

[@feroexe7965]

Imagine if Alfabusa made a tts version of the heresy and alternating some stuff like this vid. Magnus being cocky that he can sit on the throne no worries, then immediately screams similar to when he was hugged by Vulkan.

[@sahari16]

3:36 Chaos probably had total control of the warp and the Chaos gods could do it, but it was not their aim to do so. They wanted what is now the 40k setting, constant war, degeneracy. If Horus had won, then the humanity will die and Chaos with it

[@Dimitriterrorman]

What if fulgrim broke the demons influence before meeting horus like he almost did in cannon and opened fire on them instead

[@LupercalRising]

What about if the Alpha Legion had stayed loyal?

[@roguefisher4637]

What if the emperor actually saved angron friends and punished his world for such a fate. And at least eased up the butchers nails?

[@jamiemartin1434]

When my computer did an update and got that program on the internet got less it makes stories and conversations for you I had to do a fanfiction thingy where Magnus actually surrendered to leman russ.The problem I kept getting was he kept destroying Prospero for some reason unless I specifically tell it specifically not to and when they get to Terrar the emperor kept killing Magnus .

[@Hermentotip]

Great vid as usual! Also, love this new sponsor. I'm an on an off smoker, and for me most of the time the craving doesnt come as much from nicotine as from a certain breath inhale-exhale pattern that comes with smoking, and things like this help a lot with that, so cheers 😄

[@lewishorsman2219]

I’d love a what if if the Horus Heresy never happened. Obviously the Imperium would expand drastically and humans would encounter Necrons earlier, have better relations with the Eldar as the Emperor would know they have access to the webway and they are way more technologically advanced than the Imperium with what they can create. The Necrons would see the Emperor as someone who could bring them back to life so to speak as the Emperor is the best geneticist in the galaxy. He would create for them biological suits to house their minds All that Necro tech would literally kill the warp but that would again put psykers at a massive disadvantage

[@LuigianoMariano]

The biggest problem is getting Tzeentch to agree to this plan or at least letting it succeed. He IS the Architect of Fate.

[@sheeeshmaster6418]

I remember this piece of fanfiction thats basically this "What-if" scenario. Now I wont spoil much, but in this one they had Magnus, ride Leman's Flagship through the warp like damn surfer. Yea, dude rode a primarxh flagship, like a surfboard through the damn immaterium, and just got in the nick of time to save the emperor from being fatally wounded, it was insane. Shame that I forgot the fucking title

[@twotales1645]

But what if Guilliman is a Living Saint Primarch now?

[@Gallery1743]

One thing I don't understand is why the hell didn't malcador come along with russ as he would be able to keep russ tempered and not take the horus order due to suspicion and would be a better choice to tell magnus to get his shit together

[@mcook8643]

If Magnus was a loyalist could he have swayed Perturabo over to the Emporers side?

[@anthonyhodap1949]

What if the Emperor sent a different primarch to bring Magnus in?

[@ballisticfish1212]

“How powerful are the chaos god really?” Would be cool. Could look at their true abilities, since it varies a lot throughout warhammer.

[@csongorbukor8528]

Horus could convince Leman to kill Magnus because that is literally what Leman wanted to hear. He hated Magnus and sourcery. Saying this, I also think that he'd accept his surrender and took him prisoner, but as soon as the truth about the Flesh Change became known to him, Leman would order to kill all Thousand Sons (or at the very leat all their psykers), which would eventually lead to the death of Magnus, since he wouldn't let it happen without a fight and there's no way Leman and Magnus could talk this out. Not to mention Leman would shit his pants when Magnus would mention the Canis Helix, probably ending any possibiliy of a peaceful solution.

[@thomash341]

I think Leman would’ve taken Magnus to terra for judgment. If Leman hesitated in killing Horus who he knew was a traitor and was responsible for the deaths of millions including one of their brothers, I don’t think he was planning to use the arrest warrant as an excuse to kill Magnus.