Make electricity and heat with one device: hybrid solar technology

[@andreycham4797]

I have been watching lot's of diy videos about solar thermal panels and had some ideas how to combine solar heat, electric solar panels and mirrors but these guys just confirmed my old rule. If I come up with something new I just didn't look hard enough to find where I could buy it

[@Holuunderbeere]

Same here

[@tdisney]

Skepticism and critical feedback is great. Being uncivil is not. I delete trollish and rude comments. Take a look at the information in the description and the comments: a lot of questions have already been answered.

[@mariusverwey2125]

sure

[@Dzeno2010]

Biggest and main concern I immediately had was the temperature of the PV cells, luckily that seems to be tackled. However it's still two competing optimums, you want your fluid(water) to reach a temperature as high as possible for higher energy gains why usually you would want your PV cells as close to a bit below room temperature (in practice most are 50-90C on rooftops). My next main concern is fabrication costs as this looks like a fairly difficult to manufacture product and higher costs because a barrier needs to be between flowing fluid(water) and a vacuum, exerting 1 bar pressure on the back of thin PV cells which make them tricky to be used as a barrier only. I'm also a bit skeptical about their energy density claims as that's very dependent on what exact mounting systems you compare it with, what exact panels and they do not specify an exact energy density based on a specific load, usually done with peak watt hours. "High energy density" is not an unit, let alone a value, and not possible to compare. I do believe they can have benefits, especially the wind-shearing is a serious factor for higher buildings or buildings with weaker roofs. Also the carbon savings, honestly that is quite questionable if on their website they don't show how they calculated it and what references they used. Especially since they make CLAIMS but don't actually show any data/results/evidence, nor do they say what they actually compare it to nor how. To me that looks like a marketing department and not engineering. I do not trust marketing departments and I think it's with good reason.

[@tdisney]

@@Dzeno2010 solid comments, thanks. Small point to mention - I don't think the tubes are at a full vacuum of 1 bar, it's some nominal low pressure. I might be mis-remembering. But yes, certainly these are more costly to produce than conventional solar products. I agree, it would be nice to see the energy data published. I think the lack of visibility of it has more to do with this being a more b2b model, where that kind of data will typically be shared with and gone over by the client's engineering team.

[@rodgerbane3825]

On public social media, there are a lot of people that have a huge financial stake in keeping all of us depending on fossil fuels for as long as possible. I have NO DOUBT that there is a lot of organized troll activity attacking any post that suggest doing what needs to be done. So you are sure to draw a lot of trolls, but thanks for putting this up.

[@Dzeno2010]

@@tdisney it's usually a nominally low value as you can't have a true vacuum (more or less) nor would you want to because costs. However for the forces it doesn't matter, as it's about the absolute pressure difference between the 2 sides. In which case 1.0000 bar or 0.9999 bar only differ 0.01% and so would the force, in other words for the force that difference is negligible ;) Thanks for the reply though. Sorry to ask but I don't know all abbreviations, especially english business abbreviations, what does b2b stand for?

[@airpeguiV2]

Wow this video literally gave me goosebumps! I am really glad to see this technology becoming available. It really looks like it has amazing features!

[@robertodelangel8047]

Reinventing the wheel. Squeez the efficiency

[@KhalilEstell]

The back reflectors are a brilliant idea. The only thing about the video that was confusing was the area about how it was cooled. Had to read the comments to get the answers though.

[@tdisney]

Thanks for the feedback on that, it's really useful for me as the creator so I can make future videos more clear.

[@sanjuansteve]

You can make heat while generating electricity with simple solar panels that also have a closed loop water cooled heat sink beneath the panels which makes the panels more efficient at generating electricity as a bonus.

[@Bemx2k]

We need more technology like this for every household .

[@mihaistroescu6563]

My first solar air heater made in 1977, a glass over a black metal chanel, 20 m2 for a dryer. At home I made a Trombe wall with a photovoltaic panel, I use ultraclear glass 3 mm and a fan 40 cm/h, surface 1m2 (my balcony). Temperature of air up to 65 C, usually 30-45 C. In this summer I plan to use warm air to preheat water to increase total efficiency. The measured efficiency of a wall (glass+fan+black surface) is 65% for heating season, I want to see the efficiency for the whole year (electricity+warm air+warm water). The intensity of sun is up to 1040 W/m2 (measured).

[@funny-video-YouTube-channel]

Looks like a good concept for building heating. For the quick electrical water heater the solar panels are good enough.

[@pawewitkowski9130]

only problem that i see is that pv module efficiency in 60^C is very low

[@tdisney]

I'm copy/pasting Nick Simmons answer below (Nick is with NakedEnergy): "PV cells regularly get to very high temperatures. If you return to your car on a hot summers day you know how hot it can be. A conventional PV module traps the cells behind glass and lets them bake in the sun. When a solar panel is made the temperatures used in the lamination process go up to something like 150C. As mentioned the efficiency of a solar cell drops off as temperature rises - this is known as the temperature coefficient and is published on the data sheets that go with PV modules. A conventional solar module has no way of losing heat other than through convection, but at the height of summer with no breeze and high ambient temperatures there is very little cooling going on. There is a lot of academic research out there discussing this. The virtuPVT heat exchanger as described in the video is constantly taking heat away to be used for other heating / hot water / process heat. Consequently a virtuPVT collector can actually be cooler than a normal PV module under the same circumstances. Patents can be found here: patents.google.com/patent/US9605875B2 / patents.google.com/patent/US9869491B2

[@pawewitkowski9130]

@@tdisney right, and car is theoretically air cooled... This pv cell is not because it's in vacuum...

[@tdisney]

@@pawewitkowski9130 yes, this pv cell is water cooled

[@marcusp905]

@@tdisney glycol not water surely?

[@tdisney]

Well, both, technically. You don't run straight glycol through systems that need a depressed freezing point, you run water that is doped with glycol (something like 20%? It depends on the freezing point you need).

[@daviddreyer6109]

Could use water to collect the heat in a insulated buried large tank for hot water needs. And excess heat use in a fuel cell membrane to be used as stored energy maybe to be use later when sun does not shine!

[@ArchitectJacinto]

concept is very good. the important now is the market price, specialy the price/advantage ratio verssu all other systems. if price will be cheap it can be a sucess, as an architect I would start using this in my projects if the price is done correctly.

[@-Rickster-]

Now I see this as a product already I’m thinking, why are people not doing this already. The fact they are singular units makes installation seem a lot easier and then the liquid cooling effect on the solar panels as using that heat to make hot water. I’m 🤦‍♂️ ing right now. It seems so obvious 👍🏼

[@lsporter88]

A most excellent modular design. This is a next level product. Great presentation.

[@AllSectorsHearThis]

So the heat collected can be used to heat, air, water and for evaporant cooling for air conditioning. Getting planning easily and being able to fit more on the roof could make it worth the expense. What do they cost?

[@danielnofal]

Interesting design, I have used Absolicom hybrid technology for almost 10 years. Tremendous thermal performance, but lot’s of electrical issues.

[@rogerbarton497]

In principle you could cool the PV cells with a heat pump to round about 0 DegC to make them more efficient and use the heat to heat the building and/or provide hot water, but I'm not sure how the maths works out, or whether such a system would be too complicated for domestic use.

[@tdisney]

Yes, you're right. I think the beauty of hybrid solar is that it's simple, there are fewer parts to break, you don't have to worry about providing enough electricity to startup a heat pump's compressors, et cetera. This can be thought of as primarily a solar thermal technology, and it has PV as a bonus. Squeezing a bit more efficiency out of the PV cells by cooling them even more than they already are being cooled isn't going to net a ton more benefit. Direct conversion of the sun's energy to heat in water is a quite efficient and simple technology! No compressors required. :)

[@rogerbarton497]

@@tdisney You can look at the heat pump issue two ways. Use it to cool the panels, the heat generated is a bonus or use it to provide heat and you might as well cool the panels whilst you're at it. It really needs some maths and experiments thrown at it. There are panels in development that use the infra-red part of the spectrum as well as the ultra violet end to generate a voltage, so cooling the panels may not be such an issue in future.

[@rogerbarton497]

​@@tdisney You can look at the heat pump issue two ways. 1) to cool the panels to make them more efficient and get the heat as a bonus or 2) use it to provide heat and cool the panels as a bonus. We need maths and experiments! There are PV cells being developed that generate a voltage from the infra-red end of the spectrum, these cells can be combined in a panel with UV cells to produce a more efficient panel, so maybe the heat won't be a problem.

[@tdisney]

@@rogerbarton497 Good points! And interesting, I didn't know about IR-sensitive PV.

[@AlexTheKid85]

On the website i see only percent numbers but no real data: Is there a Datasheet anywhere ? i want to see more about it.

[@TheSmartymind]

I am wondering how well the system is designed to keep the tube in vacuum. With expansion and contraction cycle at place like Canada, I will scrutinize the vacuum sealing design before adopting it. But, I am very impressed with the engineering design on maximizing the solar energy capture and space saving.

[@Amuzic_Earth]

Now imagine if we could add peltier strips and Sterling engine to this setup somehow to squeeze out even more energy.

[@nicholassimmons7420]

Heat is a form of energy - one that is actually in great demand (51% of global energy use versus 17% for electricity) - that's what this technology is aimed at addressing. It's all about the lifetime cost of delivering a particular outcome sustainably. You could squeeze out more electricity and put it into a heat pump - but you would need to compare the additional costs associated with buying and maintaining the Sterling engine and heat pumps and inverters etc versus cutting out all the 'middlemen' and just delivering the heat that is needed.

[@letsmakethis]

Since the angle of the panels is independent of roof slope, it seems like these could also be applied to a south facing wall, reducing issues with snow coverage in winter.

[@nicholassimmons7420]

Absolutely - the opening shot of the video is a vertical facade

[@JonnyWilliams007]

Yes this is a real building - the Active Office at Swansea University - www.flickr.com/photos/specific-ikc/50664457763/in/album-72157696426542591/

[@j121212100]

i designed something like this in my black sketchbook. Only mine had tracking too. a very simple mechanism when in a tube.

[@relentlessmadman]

but did you patent it?

[@nunobartolo2908]

That vacum is going to come with a great cost probably needs applications with restricted square footage otherwise just add more of the less eficiente but cheaper non vacum solar

[@matthiaskleinjan2997]

yeah it's gonna be a hard time trying to find a leakage

[@nicholassimmons7420]

Depends on where you live and the temperature required. The vacuum means hot water in cold climates or very hot water for process heat if that's what you need. Flat plate collectors are more efficient, but only if you need low grade heat (eg for swimming pools). Exactly the same principle as other vacuum tubes but in a larger format. The greatest proportion of solar thermal collectors are actually the vacuum tube variety.

[@seotenin]

Wow Very nice

[@s.j.p6394]

Funny! I published same kind of paper last year.

[@argentosoulfree5197]

very cool

[@jrchicago9216]

Cool, so, how much cost in fiat currency (dollars) per watt?

[@tdisney]

It's a good question, I don't know! I'll just point out that as a hybrid technology, this tech should be thought of as "thermal solar, with the added benefit of electric production". So when the $/watt is considered, bear in mind that the denominator should be (watts_electric + watts_thermal). It's a specific technology for a specific set of use cases that will be able to utilize thermal solar a majority of the year.

[@daviddreyer6109]

@@tdisney Renewable Energy Ready Kilowatts (RERKs) Should use electric currency as financial currency that can be traded thru electrical grid networks using smart metering!⚡

[@NwoDispatcher]

Big vacuum glass tube is probably a pretty penny

[@kewintaylor7056]

Would be very expensive... Its really hard to make vaccum tube that big and also the solar part is small... Then u need water to cool it....very complicate like this sure to be very expensive than just solar cell...

[@NwoDispatcher]

@@kewintaylor7056 on second thought, i don't think those tubes are that big

[@AdamBechtol]

nice

[@--Parangaricutirimicuaro---]

When is coming out ?

[@nadeemnadaf140]

Very nice idea👌

[@herlescraft]

my biggest concern is the cylinder these things are enclosed in, it should be thick enough to withstand vacuum but at the same time thin enough to not reduce the efficency of the PV cells, and that's in the middle, the more you move to the sides the less efficents this becomes. i feel like a normal cheaper PV panel with a thermal one would be more simple and efficent overall

[@nicholassimmons7420]

The optical losses due to the glass are not materially different to the glass used to encapsulate a conventional PV module. The economics of installing separate PV and solar thermal side by side are marginal, but naturally need a lot more roof space.

[@herlescraft]

@@nicholassimmons7420 but there are differences, the thinkness is bound to change. also what about refraction?

[@Cello69.]

These folks must’ve watched the movie Pitch Black(2000). Siting on top of their vehicles was this 2 ft glass dome housing some kind of solar energy capturing device. It’s was obviously a solar device because well... just watch the movie. 😎

[@douglascanoose5281]

Have read that PV is more effective in cold than heat (comparison of PV output in Minneapolis as opposed to Phoenix)

[@tdisney]

I'm copy/pasting Nick Simmons answer below (Nick is with NakedEnergy): "PV cells regularly get to very high temperatures. If you return to your car on a hot summers day you know how hot it can be. A conventional PV module traps the cells behind glass and lets them bake in the sun. When a solar panel is made the temperatures used in the lamination process go up to something like 150C. As mentioned the efficiency of a solar cell drops off as temperature rises - this is known as the temperature coefficient and is published on the data sheets that go with PV modules. A conventional solar module has no way of losing heat other than through convection, but at the height of summer with no breeze and high ambient temperatures there is very little cooling going on. There is a lot of academic research out there discussing this. The virtuPVT heat exchanger as described in the video is constantly taking heat away to be used for other heating / hot water / process heat. Consequently a virtuPVT collector can actually be cooler than a normal PV module under the same circumstances. Patents can be found here: patents.google.com/patent/US9605875B2 / patents.google.com/patent/US9869491B2

[@theGermanPrintingNerd]

WOW wish I could get one sent to me to test

[@davehayes8812]

Nice thinking! How far away are you from having commercial product available?

[@tdisney]

They've already got it! Check them out: www.nakedenergy.co.uk/

[@jeremyratcliff1875]

This looks interesting !!! I'm an eco developer . Please let me know how I can obtain details. Thanks

[@tdisney]

www.nakedenergy.co.uk/​ and they have a contact page on their website. Cheers!

[@jeremyratcliff1875]

Thanks Tyler

[@DadofBuster]

Thanks for sharing 😎

[@Surferant666]

What would be an idea is to use refrigerant to cool the electric panels from the heat of the system.

[@pahvalrehljkov]

they say heat exchanger will take away heat from pv modules... but what if there is no need for hot water? you would need some kind of cooling unit that will cool the water if there is no hot water consumption...

[@nicholassimmons7420]

The whole point is that this technology is designed for people that need heat. Don't need heat - but do need electricity - install PV modules (the heat exchanger takes heat away from the PV cells - this does not attach to a conventional PV module - it is a product designed from the ground up)!

[@stevepruss4463]

I live in an area that frequently has severe hail storms, how durable is this solar module?

[@nicholassimmons7420]

The TUV Solar Keymark certification specifically covers hail tests

[@repealsection230forbigtech4]

yes, it's very durable and has been certified to pass hail tests, but, you still need to talk them about how severe the hail in your area is.

[@BizarroLanigirod]

my question is, "isnt having a rooftop garden great for carbon capture?" im sorry if im off topic.

[@tdisney]

Less good than you'd think. You can't exactly grow a forest with a lot of mass on top of a roof, at best you can get some grasses and small plants to grow up there. If you put a lot of soil up there, that's very heavy, so you need to make the structure extra strong... which means more materials like steel... which means more embodied carbon.... which means the carbon captured by whatever you plant up there will not offset the amount of carbon you had to emit to make the structure strong enough to hold it up! Generally speaking, it's best to put renewables on the roof and paint the rest of it white so heat bounces off. Cheaper, too. (Green roofs are pretty though :)

[@nashviperthe4th66]

You know that plants cant grow indefinetely and when it stops growing in size it pretty much stops capturing carbon from air (because carbon captured is stored in celulose so the plant itself is built from it) and when a plant dies it will decompose releasing all the carbon back into the air.

[@jasoningram4042]

😇 You've missed something 😇 Run the heated air through a chamber of cooling fins to create drinking water from the condensation of heat differential.

[@nicholassimmons7420]

We already did a demonstration project where we turned sea water into pure water using the heat and power to drive a membrane distillation process. On a small scale it really isn't cost effective, but heating the water going in could make a utility scale reverse osmosis processing plant more efficient. There are lots of potential applications.

[@scarredjellyfish]

I'm a noob and will admit so. The product is very interesting. My question. Living in a northern climate and snow build up ,can or doesn't the tube which creates heat melt the snow?. We can get several feet in one storm.

[@tdisney]

Like all solar products, if you have big snow loads, you'll have to manually remove the snow or wait for it to melt.

[@xsardas1999]

Well it must be hard to de snow , wuld probably be a trap for snow so no energy in winter becouse i dont image me going on to of the roof with brush evryday to desnow it. Also in normal operationg in summer or attum leafs, dirt etc ll probably collect in this elements meaning that u wuld need to clean them up. As far as i like the idea of cooling them with water (getting warm/hot water in byproduct) , reflectors and vacum to increase eficienty im not big fan of horizontal dirt/snpw traps that i wuld need to clean evry so often to get it work.

[@xsardas1999]

And desnowing normal pannels is much easier if u have 1sttory bulidng, just get telecopic brusk and u dont even need to the roof

[@tdisney]

@@xsardas1999 You're right, but also: 1) You can mount these vertically, on a wall, and 2) The primary application is to put these on top of commercial building flat roofs that are accessible by a normal stairway, so it is pretty trivial to walk up to the roof, push off snow or leaf-blow light debris. This is a specialty product that doesn't make sense for a few different scenarios, such as difficult to access residential roofs in heavy snow climates.

[@xsardas1999]

@@tdisney On industrail flat roof it makes more sense, meaby one on wall too. But still it wuld probably need more maintance becouse of that than usual pannels. My roofs after a few weeks ll be probably covered also in black mud, form dirt etc, and this type of solars seems to have lots of recess, so i assume to get 100% of their eficiency i wuld have to clean them, and that means also lots of work becouse u can't just swipe it like floor. I wuld verry like this technology if it only had this pipes, covered in flat boxes, that wuld be so much easier to maintian them.

[@tdisney]

@@xsardas1999 yep, certainly

[@xsardas1999]

@@tdisney For example u just build flat version of it without pipes, but structores walls in zigzag manner and u can then run air throught them and that culd be working as intake to heat pump incereasing overall efficiency. Or u can keep the pipes and just put another cover on it, but that wuld increase costs greatly. Also as i am thinking about that u want to pump fluid in the other half of the pipe, behind the solars right? And u can't just produce them with solars, so u need to seal it up with some other mateiral like slicon, and that ll probably mean that after some time u ll get leaks, epecialy when u have vaccum on the other side, and lets say 4 bars of preassured water line. Thats 5 bars of diffrence.

[@ledsalesoz]

Interesting idea, the advantages are combined electricity and heat generation, thus saving roof space, and the ability to position the tubes at an angle unrelated to roof pitch. Disadvantages would include [much] higher manufacturing cost than PVs, higher cell temperature (and hence lower PV output) on days of low hot water usage (which results in higher water temps), greater complexity of installation due to the number of electrical connections, greater chance of electrical failure for the same reason. There have been one or two cylindrical PV systems over the years, such as the Solyndra system, they have all gone under due to the higher cost - if you can't compete with low cost PVs combined with heat pumps, then you are not going to get much market share. The only manufacturer I know of still making these things is tubesolar.de I guess time will tell, but it's pretty hard to compete with the economics of standard large format PV panels, with their simple racking installation and connection systems.

[@tdisney]

Remember that this isn't really a "cylindrical PV system" - it's an evacuated tube solar thermal system, with inexpensive PV cells inside as a bonus.

[@ApacheFPV]

I'm curious as to how you transport the heat collected by the tubes out efficiently to where it can be used

[@tdisney]

Normal hydronic water piping (copper, pex, etc), insulated.

[@danielvivian3282]

Tyler, if you used refrigerant as the thermal fluid you could use a heat pump to deliver even higher thermal energy. Heat pumps in my area deliver SCOPs of 2.5.

[@christopherkarlsson4919]

I feel like it should be so easy to rotate these tubes for optimal performance throughout the day, any reason why this isn't done?

[@tdisney]

The reflectors do a lot to maximize solar incidence, so the benefits of a tracking system, I'm guessing, are far outweighed by the costs of a sun-tracking control system, needing to design and create a leak-free interface of moving parts to get the electricity and hot water out of the tubes, reducing sources of potential failure, etc. I imagine these are a more robust device than one with moving parts. The rotation of the tubes are factory set for the customer's latitude/design specs.

[@nicholassimmons7420]

If you read the comments here you will see that the world is full of sceptics. The original design did rotate and track, but the prospect of moving parts was a little too scary for the conservative VCs that back new technologies. As Tyler mentions the reflectors are a form of passive tracking. Maybe version 2.0 will see tracking back one the agenda?!

[@Marcos.CJ3A]

but the efficiency of the panels doesn't be affected by the extremely high temperature inside capsules? almost all electrical components works better in low temperatures... Ah, ok! i just found your comment about water cooled system in the cells. probably the water circulating in cells could maintain cells under the range of work temperature, right? great!

[@SlayerBG93]

Operating at 60c during summer seems quite a bit optimistic. I mean if you optimise the setup for around 60c in the summer then the water will drop in temperature quite a bit for the rest of the year making it hard to use as you would either need massive volume or additional heating. Also while the PV panels efficiency wont drop terribly it will be overall less than a regular open air panel. I am not quite sure there will be a space saving compared to a properly densly packed solar thermal+ PV. What is the price point of this product? As a two in one solution it has some potential at the right price point. Also Can it beat just a whole bunch of PV panels that are used for water heating too in terms of price and space saving?

[@nicholassimmons7420]

There isn't just one operating temperature - you can adjust the operating temperature by controlling the flow rate. Because of the excellent insulation you can achieve higher temperatures in colder ambient climates in winter. In the summer you increase the flow rate and end up with higher volume of a given temperature. That's why we always recommend sizing an installation to the summer thermal load. If you have a commercial enquiry please do get in touch - we have spent years doing the sums and there is most definitely a better outcome for the same area compared to PV and solar thermal side by side.

[@sidhmedelmiliani6855]

اذا كان هناك علم اعظم من جميع العلوم ، سوف تكون الهندسة هي اعظم علم ، ساهم في تطور

[@firefox39693]

Are you one of the engineers who worked on this? I ask because I have some complicated questions to ask about this. Specifically, can this be done in conjunction with a floating rotating tracking system, effectively making this a dual-axis concentrated PV system?

[@tdisney]

I am not, the contact info is www.nakedenergy.co.uk/contact-us

[@firefox39693]

@@tdisney Thank you so much!

[@enriquecomemierda4745]

Outstanding video. Cheers.

[@crackedemerald4930]

This is pretty cool, and an idea I've had for a while. But is it just an middle ground of efficiency between a separate solar voltaic and thermal? Because for thermal, you want it to be very hot, but for voltaic, heat is bad.

[@nicholassimmons7420]

There is a compromise. The current generation of mono-crystalline G1 PERC cells have a peak efficiency of around 22% and a temperature coefficient of approximately -0.32%/K. That means that the output from the cell at standard testing condition of 25C is 22% at 65C the output will drop to 19.2%. As mentioned a conventional PV module does not have an easy way to dissipate heat (yes some air in front and behind the module but the cells are sandwiched between glass on the front, layers of adhesive, insulation and aluminium on the back - so those cells also get hot). What would you rather have a cell producing 19.2% efficiency or a cell producing 19.2% efficiency PLUS another 50% heat - bearing in mind this technology is designed for applications that need heat - the electricity is a bonus? I don't think 1% point drop (or 12.8% relative) in efficiency is so dramatic as many here seem to think?

[@umleshkumar5053]

Where can I buy this product.

[@ventudeca]

is it working only on a flat surface? how are the performances on a roof top?

[@tdisney]

horizontal, vertical, pitched. no difference in performance wall vs. roof, I shouldn't think.

[@xiloeteknowledgiesllc1973]

Excellent post...

[@khand5877]

Can the heat be used to run a stirling engine?

[@Muuip]

Great concept! 👍

[@techgamer-channeldeleted6951]

Any buy link?

[@icedrum555]

Wow! Awesome... Are you the inventor or part of the team Tyler?

[@tdisney]

Nope, I'm just the visualization artist they hired to produce the 3d animation. I was (am) a mechanical engineer, did hvac design engineering for ~7 years before I switched to visualization full time.

[@icedrum555]

@@tdisney Ahaa! Well brilliant work ...your animation is 1st class and the product absolutely superb! Keep well bro =D

[@tdisney]

@@icedrum555 Thank you!

[@sammogoingon]

Wouldn't it be cheaper to connect all the tubes to some controller which directly turns the tubes in the correct alignment? I mean one motor and some sensors and a pcb should do the trick, right? Why manufacture a special glass for the same purpose? I do understand there might be problems with the system with moving elements though.

[@tdisney]

The purpose of the glass is not for sun tracking, and yes, moving parts fail.

[@hoang-kfpmadaodepartment4475]

Do you consider air circulation rather than vacuum tube?

[@jimhigens5464]

All the added complexity is going to increase the price right? So it might be more economical to just go with regular panels as the ROI will happen fast. If these panels have an ROI.

[@tdisney]

It depends on the application, these panels aren't going to pencil out for every project. Projects with lots of sun (obviously) and year-round hot water demand or good, for example. Also, projects with limited are for solar - the power density is high with this technology, so if that's a factor it's benefit might simply be that it will work, whereas with conventional PV there's simply not enough space.

[@alejandropetit3701]

Hi!, looks really good, what about the cost for every unit? Is It cheap?

[@reiki546]

Realy interesting, i want to have it. But its will be hard to clean when snow fall n pile. Hhhmmm but Lucky we dont have snow here 😁

[@magnussorensen2565]

Perhaps the heat generated by this panel can be circulated around and be used to melt the snow, or at least do that during the day time?

[@dr.realshit6512]

Would that vacuum create a small global warming effect, and heat it up radiation

[@filipdopirak5226]

PV cells and not cooling them ? 60°C means that power output of PV cells will drop to just 1/2 off they potencional power .

[@tdisney]

Read the writeup in the video description, which addresses the heat/efficiency issue.

[@theodorehaskins3756]

Well it’s an interesting concept & its the first I’ve heard of it!

[@roberthart9886]

Yeah, me too, and yet this video is dated Dec 2019

[@elisanabria2068]

No entiendo, se ha recomendado que las placas no deben estar calientes e inclusive se recomienda enfriarlas con agua! Entonces?

[@nicholassimmons7420]

¿Perdido en la traducción?!

[@kenwebb7454]

What if the tubes were filled with water would that magnify the sunlight to the photo cells as well as circulating the water could be another source of heat and energy cooling the cells increasing performance and heating water at the same time

[@tdisney]

Might make the electrical engineers fidgety to have all those electronic components swimming in the water... ;)

[@onkelbobokay.5393]

What is with the dirt on the mirror and on the glasstube? Whitch is the Method to avoid/remove it?

[@tdisney]

Damp cloth on a stick, probably, same with any solar technology.

[@onkelbobokay.5393]

@@tdisney Thank you for fast awnsering.

[@Sailorman6996]

if you have 95 degrees C in the collector sending hot water to the tank. The solar cell will be 95 degrees C too right? How are the temperature and efficiency curve for the solar cell? Most solar cell works well when cool 20 C but you need at least 65 C to be safe from bacteria.

[@tdisney]

I'm copy/pasting from Nick Simmons from Naked Energy, who answered a similar question below: "PV cells regularly get to very high temperatures. If you return to your car on a hot summers day you know how hot it can be. A conventional PV module traps the cells behind glass and lets them bake in the sun. When a solar panel is made the temperatures used in the lamination process go up to something like 150C. As mentioned the efficiency of a solar cell drops off as temperature rises - this is known as the temperature coefficient and is published on the data sheets that go with PV modules. A conventional solar module has no way of losing heat other than through convection, but at the height of summer with no breeze and high ambient temperatures there is very little cooling going on. There is a lot of academic research out there discussing this. The virtuPVT heat exchanger as described in the video is constantly taking heat away to be used for other heating / hot water / process heat. Consequently a virtuPVT collector can actually be cooler than a normal PV module under the same circumstances. Patents can be found here: patents.google.com/patent/US9605875B2 / patents.google.com/patent/US9869491B2

[@Sailorman6996]

@@tdisney to stay in an efficient temperature you could add a heatpump to cool the water to 10 degrees C before sending it to your collectors. There the water will get warmer, possibly 20 or even 25 degrees C witch would be very attractive for the heatpump. The heatpump may heat a tank that include a heat exchanger for your hot tap water. With the solution in the video you will compromise either PV efficiency or your tap water safety. I was also thinking of another solution that will include your setup but also one or two water only vacuum modules. That would keep PV a little cooler and still get water hot enough to kill the bacteria. A third option is to not include hot water at all. Then the hot 65+ degrees C is not needed. But the water may still be warm enough to heat a house with big radiators or water floor heating. And it will also keep PV from high temperatures.

[@nicholassimmons7420]

Solar cells have a temperature coefficient - they lose efficiency for every degree increase in temperature. The thing is conventional PV modules get really hot when exposed to sunlight (actually hotter than 60C) - just think about going back to your car when it has been sitting in the sun. Taking the heat away at 40-60C actually results in the same PV output as a conventional module, but you get to use the hot water for something useful. It can be a pre-heat and then the last 25C-5C can come from a conventional source (eg electric resistive heating or a heat pump). Legionella purges are required at regular intervals and will depend on local code.

[@markschuette3770]

but if the PV cell is in the vacuum space and subject to those high temps. won't that reduce elec. output?

[@tdisney]

See answer in description from the maker regarding temperature and efficiency.

[@aaronparys1750]

Wow this looks interesting! A different version of PVT ! Does it use liquid or air to transfer heat?

[@tdisney]

water

[@anandsuralkar2947]

What is solar to electricity energy efficiency.like for pvs its about 20-23%...also whats solar to electricity and heat energy efficiency?...their website doesn't tell.which is very pointing that this could just be advertising stunt for their PV tech which isn't very better than the old PV

[@AtlasReburdened]

How exactly does encapsulating the array in a vaccum keep them cooler? What is this proposed mechanism for extracting the heat that will always build up in a solar cell that is in use?

[@tdisney]

The heat extraction method is the water going through the capillary tubes along the heat plate that the PV cells are mounted to, that then deposits the heated water for some useful use (domestic hot water, lowtemp process heat, etc).

[@KyleDunnIt]

@@tdisney it's certainly an interesting concept. Have you estimated how thick the glass would need to be to withstand the 1 bar of pressure differential?

[@tdisney]

@@KyleDunnIt To be clear, it is both a concept *and* an actual IRL product - these things are being manufactured and installed in actual buildings now. I don't know what the glass material or thickness is, I'm just the 3d animator guy. :)

[@nicholassimmons7420]

@@KyleDunnIt borosilicate glass (as used for the vast majority of evacuated tube collectors)

[@gideonindrata1550]

how much efficiency drop while heated like that? and how much faster degradation?

[@tdisney]

Check the description for answer and links to patents.

[@normanyeo1039]

This is quite cool. But it seems like it requires a lot more material to setup. Is the cost justifiable as compared to traditional PV systems? Looks more like a residential solutions for smaller scale projects.

[@tdisney]

I'd say it's more likely to make sense for certain kinds of commercial projects, like hotels/resorts, rather than residential. But I could be wrong - residential has year-round hot water demand, which is the circumstance you need for this to make sense. Is the cost justifiable vs traditional PV? It'll depend on the project specifics. In some circumstances, this will win - in others, conventional is the way to go. You're getting both hot water and electricity from this in the same package. With conventional, you need either a PV system *and* a separate solar thermal system, or a PV system plus heat pumps, or a boiler, or whatever else to generate hot water. Really depends on the conditions and the project goals.

[@normanyeo1039]

@@tdisney yea I guess it depends on the efficiency too. Unlike electricity, heated water can't be pushed to the grid. So if it's not utilized, there is no value. And after COVID, most people will be at work during the active sunhours where it can be heated. But if it's for hotel/restaurant/etc., the application sounds like it makes sense.

[@tdisney]

@@normanyeo1039 Yep. Heated water *can* be stored in a tank for use at night/morning - I did a fair amount of Thermal Energy Storage (TES) tank design back in the day, but that was for projects at the scale of schools - I doubt it'd pencil out for single family residential. (MFR, though, sure).

[@mullajahangirahmed1772]

How much it's produce and price,

[@tdisney]

I'm not sure, it's not "off the shelf" available, but you can inquire with them: www.nakedenergy.co.uk/contact-us

[@kewintaylor7056]

I wonder if the solar cell would melt (the soldering) Inside that hot vaccum tube... (Its said u can make hot water...this mean its would be around 80°c ...) And look like its would be very expensive compare to the normal solar cell...compare by watt ...i better just use solar cell and use normal electric boiler...

[@tdisney]

Design temp is around 60C.

[@kewintaylor7056]

@@tdisney oh....i see...then its just warm....not hot...

[@MistressKuroko]

What happens to the System in the snow? If buyers live in areas with consistent blizzards would this hold up?

[@tdisney]

Same thing as happens to conventional pv in the snow I'd imagine, except these are (I'm guessing) even stronger than flat-panel since tubes are such strong structures. My flat-panel PV cells on the roof of my rig are rated to about five feet of wet snow. Obviously you want to push the snow off your solar setup, you don't want to leave that buried all winter. These are probably a little more fussy to push snow off of than flat panels.

[@nicholassimmons7420]

The Solar Keymark tests (SRCC in US) include snow loading tests

[@ocker2000]

Has this gone commercial yet?

[@thomaspayne6866]

Build it. Test it. Report it.

[@andersonoliveira496]

O vidro pode ser reto cheio de lupas.

[@felixsu375]

Do they have numbers for this system? The combined heat and solar is a great idea. This implementation looks interesting but it has to be price competitive. So how much hot water do you get and how much power compared to a normal solar pv system and hot water system?

[@tdisney]

I happen to know that they do have numbers, but I don't recall what they are off the top of my head and I'm not sure if those numbers are published. Perhaps they'll comment.

[@felixsu375]

@@tdisney Well, it's an interesting design. They just need to get close to the price of the combined systems and they will have sales.

[@felixsu375]

But I really like the idea of reflectors in between panels to increase the incident light.

[@tozzasque]

Is the cost of such a system comparable to a conventional one?

[@nicholassimmons7420]

Comparable to high quality solar thermal systems

[@leeshepherdtrading]

And yet the one thing they clearly forgot was a flat transparent sheet over the top of the unit. From day one dirt will reduce performance. Bird excrement, leaves, dirt and grime. Grooves catch and store. Flat sheet can be washed by rain and easily wiped clean. Did no one actually trial these units or are they just lab tested????

[@tdisney]

Not only are they lab tested, they're currently installed on several pilot projects. The lack of a flat transparent sheet over the top has turned out not to be a major oversight.

[@arturkuliiev697]

жаль нет технических данных , сравнения их технологии с раздельным (классическим методом) получением электричества и тепла /PV модули + вакуумные трубки/

[@awentuszioniusa8171]

So Great Voice ...

[@stevepruss4463]

Tyler, I live in an area that frequently experiences severe hail storms, how durable is this product to hail? Thank you.

[@tdisney]

Hi Steve, I'm not sure what they're rated to but being designed with tropical locations that experience hurricanes/cyclones in mind, I imagine they have to be pretty sturdy. You could try reaching out to naked energy, their website with contact info is in description.

[@stevepruss4463]

@@tdisney Thank you. I will follow-up with NE

[@tdisney]

@@stevepruss4463 Nick Simmons just left an answer on another comment - the tubes are TUV Solar Keymark certified, which covers hail tests.

[@ThomasBomb45]

How is this better than PV solar electricity powering heat pumps?

[@tdisney]

Off the top of my head, it's better because 1) Intermittency: solar thermal can charge a HW tank that can be used at night 2) This device is less complicated than a HP, if it's enough to supply your HW needs, 3) You can't really plug a PV panel in to a heat pump, it has to go through an inverter, batteries, etc. By directly converting sunlight in to hot water, you eliminate a whole bunch of "stuff" (along with efficiency losses) entailed in hooking up heat pumps. 4) The batteries and inverter infrastructure required to run a heat pump's compressors would be very costly, 5) The only reasonable (cost effective) way to do PV and HPs for hot water is to have the whole thing be grid-tied, which then makes you vulnerable to grid failures. There might be some use cases where traditional PV and heat pumps is the best solution, but there are definitely use cases where hybrid solar is a more cost effective solution.

[@Salty3439]

Where are you based?

[@tdisney]

I'm a 'digital nomad', see my other video for my cargo trailer build. Most of the time I'm in the mountains in the US west.

[@alangregory8441]

Can these be used on an off grid system?

[@tdisney]

Yep

[@prakashvyas6569]

👌👍

[@RealSameerRaza]

We have this technology in Pakistan.

[@steveowen2346]

How would this do in a hailstorm?

[@nicholassimmons7420]

Solar Keymark certification specifically tests for hail resistance

[@IoSonoIlSid]

How do you avoid pv overheating when there is not hot water request?

[@tdisney]

That's up to the design engineer. But your point is correct - if there's no HW demand, you can't just loop the water continually, which would increase the temperature. I've not designed an evacuated tube solar thermal system myself so I can't give a more precise answer, other than "This is an issue common to all evacuated tube solar thermal systems, so it's not a design issue novel to this product."

[@olavkarlsson6430]

One way could be to dump the heat in an earth battery during summer and collect that heat during the winter. A system like that could work where I live (sweden) I don't know how well it would work in a climate that doesn't have so extreme seasonal diffeences as we do here.

[@nicholassimmons7420]

@@olavkarlsson6430 inter seasonal thermal storage is a great way of maximising outputs, but a big up front investment. Your neighbours in Denmark have been doing exactly that for quite some time. It is becoming more common - even on a smaller domestic scale.

[@ledsalesoz]

@@tdisney It's normal for evac tube systems to dump excess heat either through a heat exchanger, or simply by dumping some hot water. This usually happens at water temps above 90 degrees, so way too hot for PVs really, they would lose a good chunk of output at this temp.

[@danielblanchard6487]

Thank you

[@frontagulus]

Hi, was the voiceover generated or a human?

[@tdisney]

Human, professional voice actor.

[@--Franklin--]

*Created with Cinema4D???*

[@tdisney]

Nope, Blender :D

[@--Franklin--]

@@tdisney if it is a blender then I hope you took a lot of effort and time into it... 😊