Making PCB Hot-Plate v2

[@chilljlt]

Hi Carl! Excellent progress! To chime in, a black painted PCB will indeed heat up a little slower as a black body is also the most efficient radiator. So if the intent is to radiate energy, black is better, if it is to reflect , then the opposite of black, ie white is better. Since the purpose of the unit is not merely to heat up itself, but rather to transfer this heat to the PCB you're soldering, this is something you need to consider. Again, choosing black may not be the obvious solution. Since what you care for is that the frequencies emitted by the UNIT is also absorbed by the reflow solder. If you can choose the colour of the PCB which is in the bandwidth of IR absorbed by the solder, you should get more efficient results. I'll leave this to you to experiment with! Love all your videos!

[@m.sierra5258]

Is this a micro optimization or does this actually make a meaningful difference?

[@pawetsufi]

I thought the same thing. I wonder how much a simple sheet of aluminium foil under the hot-plate could affect the heating time.

[@MarianKeller]

@@m.sierra5258 nano-optimization.

[@thegreenxeno9430]

@@MarianKeller pico-optimization

[@m.sierra5258]

@@MrFaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa if the advantage is so minimal that it's not worth having this discussion, then no. I feel like the effort of discussing a topic should be taken into account

[@lukofezz]

Hi, well done. Some comments on the heater. In next revision you could make a pcb without any solder mask and then manually apply high heat enamel spray paint used to paint grills. These can withstand temperatures up to 650 degree Fahrenheit. Then you could make wider PCB tracks in order to lower resistance and thus push more power into it. Good luck with the project!

[@CarlBugeja]

Thanks! It's a good idea but that tg rating is for the whole stack up.. So the bottom plate dielectric would still be exposed to over temperature

[@xhivo97]

@@CarlBugeja Stack up? If I understand correctly that's for multilayer boards, would a one layer board have the same issue?

[@lukofezz]

I would not care that much about tg anymore since temperatures you are trying to achieve are already beyond specifications :D go ahead

[@ollysworkshop]

@@xhivo97 the stack up for a one layer IMS board is copper, insulator, aluminium. The Tg value relates to the insulator part. In some cases it is some kind of fr4, others it is ceramic. With a 130c Tg, this is probably FR4.

[@gedr7664]

@@CarlBugeja no soldermask would just mean that the pcb is FR4 and Copper, I don't see the problem if you apply a high heat enamel paint like @lukas kazlauskas said ?

[@OneThatDied]

I don’t know if you’ll read this but your process of idea to actual product is so impressive to me. You motivated me to go into this field and now I work somewhere where too can learn how to make my own pcbs. Thank you 🙏🏼

[@thatoneguy99100]

If anything I'd expect the black soldermask to heat up slower/ have a lower equilibrium temperature since it likely has a higher emissivity than the purple.

[@ProtonOne11]

Actually, i wonder if his temperature readout did compensate for the emissivity of the coating at all. For tests like these, using a real temperature probe on the surface usually is a good idea to verify what you thermal camera or IR probe reads.

[@AdityaPrakash-kt3rf]

I have to say Carl, when u cracked that egg, I literally fell from my chair laughing! Amazing work man! I am buying this product the moment you make it available! Amazing product! Great video! Excited for the net version as always!

[@jovankostovski7976]

The moment I saw the PCB I thought to myself, I hope I will see an Egg frying test and after a few seconds there was it... Keep up the great work Carl, I really like your product design experiments and proof of concept videos.

[@fraserjones7299]

You need to adjust the emissivity on your IR when pointing it at copper. Recommend you spray a patch with barbeque paint. Assuming e=0.95 when the surface would have a lower e will measure the temperature much lower than it really is.

[@jackmclane1826]

That's not necessary when the copper is covered by solder mask. The sensor sees only the temps of the solder mask and doesn't care for whats underneath. People are always confused when it comes to this topic. Only shiny metal surfaces have low emission and thermal imaging works with very long wavelengths IR radiation that has nothing in common with visible light

[@vagptt]

@@jackmclane1826 And exposed copper is exactly what it has in the outter circle where he says that is much more cooler... I think that is what this guy refers to. And solder mask, which is very reflective at visible spectrum, could be also be very reflective at thermal IR... Or not, but you don't know until you measure it against a very black mate paint and, preferably, a contact physical calibrated thermometer. So you don't know its emissivity and its real temperature. Very cheap multimeters do more precise measurements with cheap thermopairs.

[@jackmclane1826]

@@vagptt I agree on the thermocouple part... But most polymers are great absorbers/emitters in the far infrared where these thermometers work.

[@seanocansey2956]

3:30 The transition from purple to black PCB is so mesmerising.... 🤤

[@TBL_stevennelson]

Building. Your Own is such a great idea

[@JPK90]

I have never seen anyone intentionally make pcb heat up. Intresting innovation!

[@scottwilliams895]

I didn't see earlier videos of this project, but thoroughly enjoyed this one!

[@scottwilliams895]

The intro is incredible; I did *NOT* see that coming!

[@liveen]

In an enclosure, the black PCB would reach the temp faster, while outside an enclosure, a white pcb might reach it faster. The reason for this is simple, and why people who wear white to stay cool in the summer tend to end up cooking up and away. White has far more bubbles and empty pockets in it due to the lack of pigment or whatever, which makes it a fantastic insulator despite the reflective properties, while black is completely filled up, no place for the temperature to sit and ponder it's existence, so its a terrible insulator, BUT the color means it absorbs pretty much everything that gets thrown at it; it just dissipates this heat much faster than the white one. So a black one heats up faster, but also cools down faster if allowed to. The white one heats up slower but holds onto heat far better. If you dont use any enclosure or anything, just a straight up PCB sitting in the open, neither color will be faster, but an in-between color will do fine because of the mixed properties. Basically, if you want it to be faster, go for black and add some way to keep the heat there.

[@scottwilliams895]

I love your style of hacking; your ideas are borderline crazy!

[@ELECTRONOOBS]

Super cool! Can it make hamburgers? :)

[@CarlBugeja]

I guess so 😅

[@SIKHGT650]

Hi electronoobs .... remember me

[@PCBWay]

Could we order one 😋😋?

[@rhythmmehra2443]

@@CarlBugeja hey did you recieve the IC's for the previous video, waiting for new updates on that

[@tvishmaychoudhary69]

@@PCBWay oh you're the official one !

[@HolmesHobbies]

what an awesome project! Thanks for sharing

[@jksr127]

I was so excited for this Video!!!

[@sebastiannielsen]

About the reflow quality and the solder "balling up" like some sort of metallic foam, what about making some sort of heat spreader plate, that you apply using heat paste that can tolerate up to 300*C, to the PCB. If the plate is rigid enough, and you use thin washers, and use a non-conductive paste, you could build a pretty efficient heatplate that gives even heat. Because I think your "problems" is due to uneven heat.

[@TheFoxranger]

Can't wait to see V3 !!!

[@gnramires]

To get around resistance variation, you could add a shunt resistor to measure current directly! That way you can make a constant/adjustable power source (with the help of a MOSFET and PWM) with a fixed voltage source.

[@haydenc2742]

Insulate the back with some cork board, use clear silicon to glue it down, the heat will go up MUCH faster and retain it's heat alot better Interesting design...like the aluminum backplane that helps spread the heat Would make a GREAT coffee cup heater too Unfortunately the glue that holds the copper to the PCB substrate breaks down at hotter than 130C...repeated use may see permanent damage

[@samueldavies646]

Only issue with insulated back I think may be if it does not cool quick enough for some reflow profiles, though I don't know if that will be significant?

[@gudimetlakowshik3617]

This is such an excellent project. If you fix all the issues and make a market ready product...my money is on your product. I'll surely get one and do some quick soldering.

[@leithacullen]

Looking forward to v3.

[@mafhper]

NOICE! looking forward to the next interactions.

[@TheLarsUrban]

Could you do a video on your Altium workflow? How you start a project, what libraries you use, how you name and organize your components, how you define your properties and rules. It would help me so much because I kind of find a better way of doing many thing all the time and then I spend a lot of time reworking the whole project. Id love to see how a "professional" does it. Thanks a lot!

[@Delali]

Amazing Video Carl. You always motivate me when i watch your videos. How i have to go make a video too. haha.....keep up the good work Carl

[@ganesh-Chennai]

Continue the series of the PCB motor robot, the wheeled robot was fantastic...good luck....😁

[@cdyoutoob]

🍵Coffee warmer, yes. A good reflow plate, hmmm...🔥🚒 Try a DIY vapor phase reflow oven Carl.

[@A_Casual_NPC]

I mean this in as a sincere compliment, but when watching your videos I see "Alex french guy cooking" building shit out of PCBs and its amazing.

[@GadgetUK164]

Incredible work =D Love it!

[@anthonyj777]

Very interesting, well done.

[@gamerpaddy]

Carl, i suggest you to check your owon psu for a particular issue. they have a major flaw which i reported to the manufacturer since i had the same one, but they told me they dont see whats wrong with it and ignored me a while later. even after providing videos where i show the issue and that it doesnt exist on any other psu i tested, even the cheap ones. try connecting a LED to it, set the voltage to like 10...20v but limit the current to 20mA. now turn it on, the led will blow or flash very bright and eventually blow! since their current limiting takes forever (20..50ms) to kick in, and no its not related to the output capacitors, its really just slow software. its unusable for anything sensitive, inexcuseable flaw. someone also mentioned this issue in the eevblog forum thread but its buried deep down somewhere. i would get rid of it and get something that just works, like a RD6006(P) or 6012..6018

[@yianisss]

This is getting really interesting, keep it up 👍 👌

[@mosta5]

you can use a regular single-sided PCB without a heat mask and cover it with a layer of heat-resistant ceramic or silicon. and you may need to try another material rather than copper to get more heat for less current, If you have some chemistry knowledge you can do it by reducing nickel and chrome and deposit it on fiberglass or whatever you want

[@PhG1961]

Cool video ! Btw, what about an overview of your tools and equipment and a tour of your workshop !

[@willzhai2628]

mini oven used for kitchen is great for doing this kind of job

[@qbitsday3438]

I suggest is to use Iron box , the hot plate facing upwards - This is the cheapest method i can suggest.

[@sublucid]

You may be able to avoid that globule forming behavior by suspending another heater above the PCB for radiant/air heating…. Perhaps have the two fold together like a waffle maker?

[@temyraverdana6421]

Super! Thanks you are a giant!

[@sensimillia_420]

a really cool project. Thanks very much! keep it up ✌🏼😁

[@jamjamamam4139]

Isn't easyer to add temperature controller to single plate electric cooker?

[@nigelhungerford-symes5059]

hot product!

[@brucehanson4147]

Interesting, I might be tempted to put a batch in my next pcb order. My thoughts I'd be interested to experiment with; Leave off the solder mask. Increase the size of the trace leading out to the connection point. Turn it over and use the smooth aluminum surface side. Place insulation on the underside. ...your thoughts?

[@ahbushnell1]

Black has higher emissivity then white. Black also absorbs more. So if you want to heat it with a heat lamp make it black. If you want to minimize blackbody radiation to get hot you don't want to use black. Look up black bodies. Good video.

[@DRB-Octane]

the thumbnail alone is very pretty...

[@excitedbox5705]

You should add some insulation underneath the hot plate. It will heat up much quicker if it isn't losing half its heat to the bottom.

[@mystamo]

Nothing to say but Hi today Carl. Nice video.

[@mhtmhn]

Only if we had teflon solder mask. Nice v2

[@CarlBugeja]

Maybe for v3 😉

[@TheKybliceek]

Hello Carl, very nice video. Great Work "!!

[@kaiyofox]

You should do something with inductive heating

[@bskull3232]

6:08 It is NOT your fault. ChipQuik low temp pastes are rubbish. Period. Since you have already ventured out for a preheater, just make it hotter and use SAC305. The things is, they do not make chemicals. They use the same flux chemicals across product lines from a supplier, which means the activation temperature of their 138C pastes is the same of their 217C pastes. Guess what happens if your solder melts before your paste activates. Exactly this! Over the years I've learned the hard way that sticking with industry standard is probably the best choice.

[@pratiklondhe5167]

Bruh that is so cool :)

[@LightningHelix101]

This one is much closer to a product!

[@Liam-ir6xm]

This is awesome. i dont do much smd work or make projects anymore but im keen to see how this goes, defs earned my sub :D I attempted to fix a friends gpu and used a hotbed from my old 3d printer to preheat the board so when i blasted the fets with the reflow gun it wouldn't just eat all of the heat. i managed to get the bad fets off without damaging anything so pretty happy about that. unfortunately the card is still dead.

[@5Breaker]

I would still prefer the black mask since it's potentially radiating more heat into the product to reflow. That would also make sense why it took longer to heat up.

[@asdf35750]

Black most likely has a higher emissivity than the purple mask. This means that, yes, it will absorb heat more effectively than the purple, but it will also RADIATE heat more effectively. My choice would be white, not black.

[@pyromanci2736]

Who else was half expecting him to drop it when carrying it over to the hotplate?

[@SlyerFox666]

Looks very much like a heated bed of a delta style 3D printer ...🤔... I think I have an idea I might try 👍

[@user-ms8km7lh1l]

I'm working on a pcb trace-based temperature controlled heater as well so i'm interested to see how you do it!

[@ukaszsrednicki4849]

no way… another weeks of waiting 😞 Fingers crossed for success🤞

[@myrmidon0]

Versi 2 lot more better, very nice, keep it up bro !

[@LimitedWard]

I'm wondering if you should try arranging the heating element into a spiral pattern similar to how heat elements work on an electric stove.

[@ledricelektronika6635]

You could try aattaching power wires directly to the pcb with screws and isolating washer on the other side

[@CarlBugeja]

The holes for the connector are not plated and the bolts would be directly touching the aluminium ore

[@ledricelektronika6635]

@@CarlBugeja *facepalm* I havent thought about this ;D Maybe you could use nylon to220 isolating sleeve?

[@playbyan1453]

It looks nicer than having open wire, so it cannot shock people but stray capacitor could shock if it powered by ac voltage

[@danhellgren5671]

Have you tried to solder on the other side of the plate? The thermal mass will make it slower, but will you get the same temperature?

[@YunusGuitar]

Perfect 👍👌👏

[@kingmasterlord]

so I'm going to build one of these into a big ass Texas belt buckle as a personal heater

[@ARVash]

Very impressive! Your egg cracking skills no, but the PCB yes!

[@TaiGell]

Color only makes sense if you will heat it with light, then black color absorbs more heat/

[@sterkriger2572]

Would a ceramic coating like cerakote help with heat transfer?

[@aqib2000]

Next time use metal bolts to secure the electrical connection!

[@CarlBugeja]

using metal bolts could cause a short - aluminium is conductive so it will short the two connections

[@neutronenstern.]

@@CarlBugeja Metal bolt with plastic at the bottom should fix the issue. But then you might use a fuse for safety

[@CollinBaillie]

Using fibre washers, and a nylon sleeve like you do with a TO-220 Heatsink might give you the isolation and heat tolerance you need?

[@MatthewUpp]

A good soldering iron with a large tip should be sufficient to solder wires directly to the pads. To make it even easier and quicker work for the soldering iron, preheat the heater on another heater such as one of the already wired up heaters or the heated bed of a 3D printer.

[@bitbanggaming204]

What did you use for your trace simulations or calculations? I am interested in trying a similar project.

[@waylontmccann]

Great progress there Carl! I like the jump I'm evolution you've made here on the reflow hotplate. The one channel board is a good idea, along with the thicker runs. Instead of a black body absorber, have you considered the use of a heat sink plate? If you can cook an egg on a modern CPU (which you can), and you just cooked an egg on camera, then can you reflow on a CPU? (Not quite but...) can you use a thin (like .25mm) sheet (probably need tiny fins directed downward to transfer the heat to the sink without warping and blistering. Coat the flat side of the heat sink with a silicone or Teflon spray (available at hardware stores, used for table saws and other tools). It's non stick (cause I saw that), and high temperature resistant. Just throwing stuff out there to see what sticks or.. doesn't.

[@Hairycabbbage]

Lmao at people thinking the black board would be better... like what did they think you were leaving it out in the sun to heat up or something? XD

[@padmalayarawal3091]

Fabulous🤩. Suggestion: I don't know whether it make any sense or not but attaching thin sheet of galvanized steel like our stencil with some thermal paste on the hotplate will solve/hide the decolorising of PCB. But why not cooper although its a great conductor of heat but it decolorises so quickly.

[@playerlazar73]

good way to heat a coffee mug ?

[@brawndo8726]

Use 3 standoffs instead of 4 if you want to eliminate the wobbly stool effect 😉

[@Jkauppa]

how about a constant resistance temperature oven with temperature control

[@osmanpasha_diy]

Was there ever a v3? I can't find it

[@bzhmaddog]

I'd buy one if available (and not overly expensive)

[@christopherj3367]

hahaha none stick, oh now that's an idea. Teflon coating or something similar.

[@raytry69]

What if you calculate the temperature from the copper layer resistance?

[@techrahul3673]

Love from india

[@TheOneTrueMaNicXs]

No concerns about formaldehyde?

[@peterwarriner1]

What are using for the inspection camera and screen?

[@RoStepMusic]

Hi, where do you got the digital microscope (6:11) from? Or at least the name of it because I really like it and I need one

[@m.sierra5258]

Its*

[@CarlBugeja]

Link is in my description 👆🙂

[@CollinBaillie]

So, did you have to have a schematic in Altium to then draw the PCB?

[@CarlBugeja]

For this one no.. Just a PCB file

[@codytoys87]

if make distance between coil and iron plate, and used induction for heating.

[@TheSam1902]

I hope you haven't opted for a HASL finish, since it can contain led, and you just ate an egg baked on it.

[@ganesh-Chennai]

Nice video, happy you finally nailed the concept of "ElectricPCBCooker"....pls upload videos more OFTEN......

[@a-aron2276]

Can you make a pcb flatpack oven? 220°c max temp and big enough to fit a burger but collapseable to fit in a camping backpack and powered off 24v-48v

[@CarlBugeja]

Maybe 😅🍔

[@CarlBugeja]

You would need a 132W power source though

[@icksbocks]

Hi, I am curious wether your actuator pcb designs are feasibly strong enough for making a solid state magnetic stir plate. Like for lab work with a PTFE coated bar magnet for stirring. That would be crazy useful.

[@RobertSzasz]

Why not use flat coils like are used in hard drive motors?

[@babylonfive]

Carl, can't you just change to 160degC TG?

[@Willy_Tepes]

I love your videos and have a question. Has anyone tried creating origami-like structures out of flex? If you fold the board in on itself it functions as its own enclosure. This is probably most useful on the micro scale. What is the smallest useful thing you can make?

[@LeandroSehnemHeck]

Hey, I like your videos! How much do you pay for using Altium?

[@patprop74]

You ll need to coat that thing with Teflon if you want to cook eggs while you bake your PCBs lol

[@snotboogie2246]

What calculator you aare using for trace widths and what is that simulation software that helps you find resistance called ? Please help My graduation project is related to something similar.

[@deth3021]

The black solder mask would increase black body radiation... So why would people expect it to speed up the warm up time?

[@thomasesr]

I know you are being payed byAltium but their software is far from Open Source. It would be ideal to share the design files of an open source project as a open source file like KiCAD. Does Altium export files to KiCAD compatible open format?

[@Zanonnnn]

Where can I buy this project? I like very good!!! (: