i made this circuit board on a 3D printer

[@mikeselectricstuff]

If you really must to do homebrew PCBs, pre-coated photoresist board is the way to go. Develop with silicate based developer, not hydroxide as it has a much wider margin between "develop" and "strip"

[@viniciusfriasaleite8016]

I am trying to find those in Brazil...

[@flisboac]

This is much more expensive, by a lot.

[@asronome]

​@@viniciusfriasaleite8016 Very hard to find that kind of convenient stuff in Brazil, its actually absurd how bad hobby electronics stuff is here. Can't even find a high quality breadboard, and wait until you find out how many ICs you buy at stores (online or in person) are actually counterfeit and don't match the datasheet specs

[@brunogoncalvesbasto]

@@asronomecan confirm. Also, when you do find the ICs, they cost 3x the actual price.

[@brunogoncalvesbasto]

@@viniciusfriasaleite8016 what works reasonably well, if you can afford a laser, is to just spray pain the pcb with just regular black spray paint, let it dry for a bit and print the PCB with the laser. I happen to have a fiber laser, but diode lasers will work for this purpose as well.

[@mikeselectricstuff]

For ferric chloride disposal, soak it into newspaper, let it dry in the sun and treat it like normal garbage.

[@EkiToji]

Hardest part there is obtaining newspaper.

[@JaxxTech]

Dependant on where you live that may not be allowed... I know in Australia we have some pretty strict laws around it in case water ever hits the garbage and it leaks

[@thevoidedwarranty]

The mighty mike of electronic stuff has spoken ,all hail the father of youtube teardowns

[@DocM221]

​@@EkiTojiJust go to your local town/city newspaper. They have to keep everything they don't sell. Also BIG FAN MIKE!!!

[@sirmeltsalot9907]

The method I've used for Ferric Chloride disposal is very slowly neutralizing the acids with baking soda and then tossing out the solids soaked up in paper towels. Be sure to add the baking soda very slowly and controllably, because of foam. The solids made can make the foam stick around longer causing it to slowly build up or go out of control and make a huge mess. Especially as you are getting close to the end. Let it all settle out fully and pour off the liquid down the drain with a lot of water. The "mud" that gets made may go into the trash, depending on your local laws. But make sure it doesn't go down the sink, so let it all settle out fully. The simplified reactions are roughly like these below: FeCl3 + NaHCO3 -> FeCO3 + FeOOH + H2O + CO2 + NaCl The dissolved copper reaction is similar: CuCl2 + NaHCO3 -> Cu(OH)2 + CuCO3 + NaCl + H2O The iron and copper product is a mix of carbonates, hydroxides, and oxides, not all shown here and the exact mix of them may change.

[@bytesizedengineering]

I laughed so hard when you said the forbidden blueberry fruit roll up! Because I absolutely have one of those protected somewhere in a box!

[@dablakh0l193]

Try using a laminator to attach the forbidden fruit roll up. It will force the roll up to be much better attached to the pcb material. The bubbles at the edges of the traces are sometimes caused by the roll up having not super bonded to the board. Also, you might want to give the muriatic acid / hydrogen peroxide combo to etch the board. It works 10x faster and you end up with much crisper etches.

[@JJFX-]

And make sure the copper is as clean as absolutely possible which can be easier said than done. If it's also necessary to lightly scuff the surface for adhesion, you want the surface scratches to be as fine as you can get away with.

[@thewolfin]

Yep, that's what my college peer used when he couldn't get clad pre-coated with resist (or it was too expensive). He used to use one of those rubber roller things they use for vinyl application, said it was better than nothing but didn't compare at all to the laminator.

[@helloman221]

I've been doing this with an Anycubic Photon Mono for the past year or so, and it works wonderfully. All you need to do is remove the build plate and vat, and print a 3D model of the circuit. No need for any extra steps on a less complicated printer. You simply lay the board (coated with photoresist) on top of the screen and it works - you can use the first layer for alignment, or you can also add alignment marks to the 3D model of your PCB, making it easy to place the board in the right spot. It certainly beats printing the PCB design out on acetate and exposing with a UV lamp.

[@sierralarars]

Tbf you could use the acetate method with a 3D printer too! Just lay it on the screen and blast it with a tank clean. Then you don’t need to worry about any gcode shenanigans and making extra steps

[@poepflater]

I used to do lots of photo etching with the spray on negative. I would simply expose it outside in the sun. Even an overcast day typically only needs like 5 minutes of exposure. You can do small repairs to your negative using a marker pen.

[@Maxx-Blade]

Finding out that everyone in tech-tube originates from FormLabs is wild.... who's next? Great Video Stephen!

[@trotyl1432]

Is there anyone else who originates from formlabs beside Stuff Made Here and Stephen?

[@bahmad5811]

If you apply the blue film wet there are no bubbles, like vinyl stickers. Apply, squeezer the water to sides, let it dry then iron or pass through a laminator. Have done double sided boards with no issues. You can use some throughhole components to switch layers or thin wire for vias. Developing the resist layer before etching helps with resolution.

[@JohnDoe-rx3vn]

I managed this with saran wrap on the bare lcd glass, and regular resin as the mask. Ferric Chloride still dissolves the copper, and the resin rubs clean off in warm water. No messing with fruit rollups

[@MM-fr7mz]

Nice KiCad shirt. Thanks for donating!

[@PCmaniak]

Hi ! I don't know about your film.. but the one I used(no name ali.. the color was the same) was applied hot.. I used a classic office laminator on the highest setting.. then I let it go through 8-10 times like this sandwich.. classic printer paper + pcb + film + printer paper ..

[@stephen_hawes]

OH that's a good idea, I should definitely try that. I just put it on at room temp, but using a laminator would probably help with adhesion

[@enredao_electronico2737]

This method is the one i use for my testing PCBs for years and works like a charm.

[@arthurmoore9488]

I might try that.

[@kentacy69]

Alternatively ironing could work too, foil or something in between

[@terezatomcova2793]

I’ve been doing something similar with a sharpie strapped to a FDM printer (even double sided boards). You can also print a solder paste stencil to make the soldering easier.

[@DocM221]

This is great, love the collab without shilling for paid promotions!!

[@dan3a]

I know my uni has been buying copper clad with pre-applied sheets, to kinda skip the whole application part

[@stephen_hawes]

yeah i should absolutely try these, i bet they would work MUCH better

[@telefon72]

@@stephen_hawesThey work really well! Used them around 7-8 years ago. It was actually pretty easy to get good two layer boards aswell.

[@chrw756]

No way! I've been messing with photoresist and literally just last night was thinking an sla printer would do the job well. Then I wake up and see this! My little tip on the fuzzy edges is, in my experience, that seems to come from poor film adhesion. I started running mine through a laminator and got much cleaner edges the ferric chloride didn't creep under. Exposure probably effects that too. Edit: just saw someone else saying this lol

[@blueduck577]

Hi this is Jim, Lucian's friend. I thought about doing this exact thing on the printers down at hack. This is awesome that you've done it! I have all of the stuff required, I should just go and do it.

[@rallekralle11]

about that crystal, those unused pads connect to the metal cover. so it doesn't matter if both aren't connected. it's grounded fine if just one has a good connection

[@Made_by_Maxx]

Hey, I've used this method (but a bit differently) for two years. I start with my design in Fusion 360, export the file, and "print" only the first layer with a 90-second exposure time. Before printing my circuit, I cut the PCB to size and use Photo PCBs from Bungard. You can also use double-sided PCBs. It works great! After printing, I dip the board in an NaOH solution to develop it. The dipping time depends on the board size and solution concentration. Afterward, I clean it with water and then immerse the board in a sodium persulfate solution. With this method, I've made PCBs with copper traces as narrow as 5 mil (0.127 mm). The quality is excellent, and I love this method because it's so fast, reliable, and easy. (I use the Elegoo Mars 2 Pro)

[@PatrickHoodDaniel]

Fun experiment. I was thinking of doing something similar (on a livestream), but I'm glad you served as the guinea pig!! Man, I would love to see something viable that also included solder masks. Or just a great alternative for very low production, or simple prototyping. Great and inspiring video. Thanks!!

[@mikeselectricstuff]

Totally not cool that Formabs charge a fee to let you fiddle with your own hardware

[@stephen_hawes]

agreed. what is cool is that a hyper closed company is starting to open up a bit! obviously it’s better if they’re fully open.

[@thevoidedwarranty]

The toner transfer is the quickest & easiest method fo homade pcbs .i get 0.35 mm traces & clearences every time

[@chaos.corner]

It's pretty straightforward. I have the printable sheets and they work really well but I have the magazine page method a go and it was pretty reasonable. Mostly I just pay for fab now though. I'm rarely in enough of a hurry and they're usually impressively quick to deliver. There's usually something to fill the time.

[@Nik930714]

We used to have a small CNC in the office and we'd use it for prototype boards from time to time and then JLCPCB and PcbWay came to the scene. Even where you have to deal with the customs, it is a bit slower, but you can get a 2 layer board with silk screen and solder mask and everything for a few dollars and a of waiting week. Even since then we've not used to CNC for home made PCBs. Its just not worth it with those prices and that delivery time. Still this is pretty cool.

[@mafhper]

When I'm doing this type of curing on the plates, I add a small motor to generate a little agitation in the liquid recipe. I have consistently good results.

[@adameichler]

In this case, having a cheap, simple printer should be a benefit. I think I would not have to do any modifications to my Halot One, just remove the build plate.

[@azyfloof]

I'm really intrigued now :D Given that the etch resist film is a UV resin material, could you skip that step and print (actually print) the resin etch resist directly onto the PCB? What would the adhesion be like? Would it stand up to the etch process? Easy to remove the resist afterwards? I'm also curious if you could build a sort of "cut down" printer that just has the UV source and mask LCD, and use that to expose the resist film

[@hanelyp1]

I'm guessing UV resil will work well as an etch resist.

[@azyfloof]

@@hanelyp1 I'd love to see Stephen expand on this idea :D Dedicated PCB etcher would be awesome

[@kiekje73]

You also could apply a solder mask with some resin after..

[@thebytespider]

Redemption arc. it's actually really useful to think of the UV led and LCD screen as a tool separate to the printer, perhaps it would be useful for other crafts

[@chaos.corner]

Could be interesting. Screen printing works with regular light but I'm sure just UV would work too. It would be small screens but they have their uses.

[@yelfog]

Awesome video! Gave me some ideas to try with my fdm printer, like holding a print over the board while a uv flashlight exposes the right bits

[@Enjoymentboy]

This is pretty cool. Something I've been thinking about for a while so good to see it's possible. Now I wonder if this leads to a stand-alone machine specifically designed for just this purpose. The resin printers pretty much already have everything needed and you could add in a heated etch tank for the complete package. I could make good use of a UV PCB exposure box that I pop in a PCB with resist, load a file and let it do it's thing.

[@BrandonRobinson-m4l]

Super excited to see your experiments with the fiber laser! I work for an architectural lighting company and do a ton of PCB prototyping. I use the CNC diode laser method, and it's been pretty good. I can make boards up to 12" and can swap to a spindle to cut the boards out in whatever shape I want. I send the boards down to our PNP machine and they get populated pretty quick. In about 4 hours I can have a panel of multiple variations of a board. I've been seeing videos of people doing this with a fiber laser, and it would be SUPER helpful if this could all be done in one setup, rather than switching from laser, to acid, to spindle. I've been hesitant to push to make the purchase though just because I haven't seen enough videos showing the consistency and workflow of it. Also, loved your last video about the cnc solder paste. Been looking for a way to adapt that to my CNC, so I can speed things up when we go to populate the protoboards.

[@arbitrary_username]

If you use a spindle to cut, why don‘t you use it for the traces?

[@BrandonRobinson-m4l]

​@@arbitrary_username ease of use, speed and repeatability, I did a bunch of testing with the spindle method and it was so much more difficult to get a final board without an issue. Getting a perfectly level surface over a 16"x 16" area was difficult. Bits broke often. And to get a high-speed spindle to do it properly at a decent feedrate was far more expensive. I purchased large sheets of boards from JLC. Copper with white solder mask on top, so I don't have the step of having to spray paint, and then my board has the white reflective surface I need for testing my LED boards. Also my machine is multiuse, we machine some aluminum, wood, acrylics. As well as laser cut / engrave some stuff, so the machine needs to be agile, and can swap from my PCB setup to something else relatively simply

[@arbitrary_username]

@ Thank you!

[@ephemeral0101]

Try paint-on liquid photoresist. Easy & cheap to get, simple to apply, and gives a superior result.

[@jonathantribble7013]

Laser based etching, and resin-based solder mask and silksceen would be sick!

[@m_IDEX]

I wonder if you could just use resin instead of the photoresist film. Removing resin after etching would be another problem to solve.

[@mynewprofilename]

is there a special device which can UV-light certain areas (with sub-mm precision)? if not, it might be a good niche business idea, and sell pre-coated photoresist boards as consumables

[@40Grit195]

I have ideas on how to make actually pcbs on a printer. To go along with the pick and place

[@Electronics-Rocks]

Mix in some Bicarbonate of Soda (baking powder) for ferric chloride disposal until neutral then settle then can go down the drain sludge clean out with blue roll to bin!

[@RJ_Eckie]

When opening this video I was like “oh yeah Stephen’s been reading my mind and making these videos for me personally 😎” The acid’s a dealbreaker for me at this point though. I’ve heard about printing actual conductive filament but I’m not sure what the precision is on those. Looking foward to the results with the laser!

[@stephen_hawes]

HA we’re on the same wavelength! i agree re: acid, it’s a real bummer to have to use it. but it does work so well. hopefully the laser removes the need for it!

[@DavidRoy-xs1vi]

I only have a limited amount of hands-on experience with photo-resist products, but I've found that film resist is best applied with a heated high-pressure laminator. With liquid photo-resist, it looks like spin-application, like in I.C. fabrication, could work with small PCBs as well. I've not tried anything like that though. Keep up the AWESOME development and videos, you ROCK.

[@johnmorris1162]

Can SLA resin stick to the copper so you can bypass the photoresist film, just the PCB as the build plate? The resin would have to be acid resistant though.

[@Ivan-l6d1h]

Ferric Chloride is not acid, it's salt. I propose you another receipt: you can take 100g 3% hydrogen peroxide, add to it 35g of citric acid and 5g of table salt (NaCl). All components are available on grocery/pharmacy, has the same speed of etching and not so nasty and dangerous.

[@OffGridOverLander]

Love it! I have a Creality Mage that I think I’ll try this on, plus my own idea for creating 2+ sided boards.

[@jeremysaise]

I did this about 2 years ago on my halot one. Did not put the tank in just ran a test exposure with out the board and setup an alignment with tape and made 4 boards so a custom led ring I was making.

[@Monotoba]

I made a UV board exposure box with an old 15 inch monitor. The only issue is getting the board and image lined up.

[@autobots9786]

You should checkout the recent project from Bad Obsession Motorsport. They pretty much came up with a novel way of 3d printing circuit boards!

[@timmcnerney1045]

[I have to imagine you thought of this already, but...] Why can't you essentially use (double-sticky taped) copper-clad as a "build plate" and use the SLA printer as a regular 3D printer to UV-cure resin onto the copper, and use *that* as an etch-resist instead of all the "fruit roll-up" rigmarole? If this is workable, you just have to convince the FormLabs slicer not to print a "boat" onto the "build plate," right?

[@ericblenner-hassett3945]

I did not see in the comments that there is a spray version of the ' Forbidden Fruit Rollup out there. I have not personally used it, from other people's bad experiences with it, there are several brands and each seemed to dry at different times and need different ammount of UV to cure. It is an optional way to avoid ' excess ' rollup losses.

[@jessecooper4361]

is this leeding to a new product ? after the pip seeing as its in the same family and prosses, a atometed uv copper clad system for rapid proto bords then could then just go to the pip would be nice add on to a home elc lab

[@BunkerSquirrel]

Overall this is viable, but it's also hard to stress how dangerous some of these chemicals are. If you do this, be careful, and make sure it's in a very well ventilated area.

[@platin2148]

Btw. wehere do you guys get the 0.25mm wire? Who are the suppliers for such stuff..

[@adagioleopard6415]

Oh! I used a prusa clone to etch by just keeping the bed hot and sending some gcode on a loop to agitate it.

[@the555timer]

What if you print a few layers onto the copper?

[@GilesBathgate]

Cool. But why can't I print PLA/PETG filament as etch resist on copper clad board?

[@stephen_hawes]

i’ve found the resolution isn’t that great, but could be a cool thing to develop further!

[@adameichler]

I tried that. PLA really refuses to stick to copper.

[@GilesBathgate]

@@adameichler yes. I wonder if there is a type of filament that will stick. Or maybe a dissolvable film that can be placed between?

[@GilesBathgate]

@@stephen_hawes you are right but I just want to see if it could work in principle with a low res design.

[@thomasheil5105]

Hello Stephen, Please do the following when introducing the Xtool F1 ULTRA: 1. Order 0.6 or 0.8mm 35oz double-sided PCBs with black soldermask!!!! from JLCPCB 2. First structure the solder mask with the laser 3. Then laser the copper only along the contour. Do not remove the flat copper under the solder mask, then it will go faster. 4. Now create the drill holes that only work with 0.6mm or 0.8mm? PCBs 5. Cut out the circuit board with the laser and put it back in upside down for the second side As the solder mask is already on it, you do not need to apply it separately! All of this only works with thin circuit boards that we can get very cheaply from China, not with the usual 1.55mm PCBs. Thank you very much

[@thomasheil5105]

If you are familiar with the machine, you can try selective soldering with the machine. This means that you have the circuit board assembled in China and you make the missing components with your solder paste Lumen PNP. Only the new assembled components need to be soldered with the laser. To do this, you need to adjust the focus.

[@TrebleWing]

What the hell is the point of that when you are already ordering your pcbs from a fab that will make them for $5?

[@awocrf]

@@TrebleWing You don't have to wait a week every time you want to test a new design because you can order a 100 or so of these blanks beforehand.

[@Salamekleikum]

I personally use pre-applied photoresist PCBs, B/W laser printer to print positive of PCB layout on transparent plastic A4 (they are sold for this purpose) and then just use UV lamp to develop the PCB... rest is the same... but i was thinking about getting SLA printer screen (just screen with controller) to do what you are doing... but your results are, well... kinda shitty VS what i can manufacture by using the "old way"... but i guess it is due to custom applied photoresist, so pls try with pre applied one

[@aleksandarvasilevski7410]

I used anycubic m5s to do PCBs with pcb that have film applied and that part was ok. But rendering pcb image to rectangular pixel was part that was troublesome. I used uv tool program and for some pcb works perfect for other it renders pads in weird form. Using different scaling on x and y axis trigers some rounding error in rendering. If that is fixed i would use this process more often.

[@stephen_hawes]

huh, that’s interesting! do you have your work documented anywhere? would love to see a visual of this issue

[@aleksandarvasilevski7410]

@stephen_hawes UVtools is open source program developed in c#. Only modification that i did is printing bridge that fakes force sensor so printer thinks that build plate reached screen. Unfortunately i don't have examples of bad rendering. I tried to debug the issue but c++ and c are my native languages not c# .

[@mxl33e]

If you could print the pcb mask on a transparency, you might be able to use the sla uv screen just as a uv source and expose a pre coated pcb through the transparency layer.

[@chaos.corner]

You could but you might as well just use a UV light then. It should be easier though as there's typically a cleaning mode that just turns on the UV for a period of time.

[@mxl33e]

@ right the cleaning mode is what I was thinking you could use, since you wouldn’t have to hack the printer seeing as it comes standard with most… I guess the reason to use a resin printer as the uv source is because someone might have that instead of a uv lamp🤷🏻‍♂️

[@vvatashi4259]

I strongly prefer to etch boards with hydrogen peroxide + citric acid. These are cheap to buy in any pharmacy and supermarket all over the world, and it looks much safer and more environmentally friendly to me than ferric chloride and the like.

[@JJFX-]

How long does it take?

[@vvatashi4259]

@@JJFX- It doesn't take very long, maybe about 10 minutes for a small PCB.

[@JJFX-]

@@vvatashi4259 Sounds like a great solution then. The strongest hydrogen peroxide you can find would probably be ideal.

[@adamarmfield1069]

if you haven't checked out printed resistor tech it's coming on leaps and bounds, they are printed then laser trimmed, accuracy is really improving, suitable for pull up/down, wurth elektronik do it for example

[@Ziraya0]

This seems like one of those cases where if you did this 3 more times you'd get nearly perfect results

[@joepartlow]

It seems to me that it should be possible to use the UV imaging from an SLA printer to make a low cost dedicated PCB system.

[@pravin1074]

How about the AntPCB milling machine?

[@zangarkhan]

Can you try this with a cheaper resin printers ?

[@boembajee]

UV laser?

[@connormccarter9581]

... Ok, now I want to try and Vinyl machine cut a circuit board pattern, possibly directly on the copper clad.

[@radarmusen]

How about using some resin on the pcb and then expose it and then etching it. I’m totally non familiar with resin printer so there is maybe a problem there.

[@DgtlCnsltng]

Been there, done that like 30 years ago with a repurposed flat scanner ... Exact same problem today, no via is by far the most limiting factor, basically not applicable to anything more than a demo board.

[@UKsystems]

I have a source for UV OLED screens. It may be worth trying to sort something out with this.

[@ahero4heor]

What's with former Formlabs folks turning into KZbinrs lol Love the content outta you and Stuff Made Here

[@DanBowkley]

Laser printer and transparency film as a mask. Put the photosensitized board with the mask sandwiched on top out in the sun for half an hour.

[@solveit1304]

How about LCD screen (LCD glass only and polarizer). And under UV light. Modern smartphones got crazy DPI ratio so track resolution should be great

[@DanielLopez-up6os]

That's what the Printers alreay use Basically. And good luck getting an 8K that HIGH DPI screen anywhere else than a printer.

[@arbitrary_username]

@@DanielLopez-up6osAnd regular displays will die from the uv exposure much faster.

[@chaos.corner]

@@DanielLopez-up6os Plus smartphones are RGB and printers are mono. not insurmountable but a complication.

[@DEADB33F]

...In before you try adding a small UV laser to your pick & place and use it to cure the board resist.

[@mrday60]

why can you just print a mask directly to the pcb blank via the resin?

[@RoboticsDIY]

Amazing hack. Didn't think of it, I guess someone might have came up with modified optics from DLP Projector as well for exposing and making PCB's. Not sure what is the resolution of the projector inside Formlabs 2 and 4, but website says "XY Resolution⁷ 50 µm with pre-tuned anti-aliasing for subpixel resolution Superior fine feature performance and sharp features compared to the Form 3 Series". That should be good quality for 0,5mm pich parts, would be interesting to see how far more it could go. Without support from Form Labs engineers might probably be easier take that thing appart, but then you loose benefits of any optics correction algorithms they might have + harder to switch back to regular printig. Honestly they could include this as a feature in their future printers. It sort of just requires software to have functions for it, trusting the user to make proper measurements like the thickness of the PCB. In a safer way it might need few extra sesnors or bits. I don't think they will, as its not their main business, and extra risk of users damaging the machines; but but it would be cool to see material exposure for electronics or jewelery included. Maybe some students could use it for making their own silicon? Because its just so close to doing it out of the box. Would be a hudge benefit to push me over to invest in one.

[@womacko]

Maybe you give the Makera Carvera Air a try? 😮

[@JamesThompson-xl4yu]

I would say, it was your film. if you have LED lights, they leak a little uv. so working with the film exposes the film slightly. try it with an old-school light when working with uv film till it is time to expose the pattern.

[@mikesimons1544]

I like hobby projects as much as the next guy, but so much easier to email off to pcbway or others and get great boards back in a week. May be different next year with tariffs but can still do companies within USA. (Love your pick and place by the way)

[@graham8316]

is there a 3d printing liquid that would work? removing he fruit rollup and literally printing like normal onto the board would rip

[@zachbrown7272]

hey nice multimeter at 10:42 :)

[@SirDizarm]

Cant you just lay it on the "screen" in the printer instead of adding it to the tray that move up?

[@АлександрЛарионов-е4у]

In the old days, I used a solution of citric acid and hydrogen peroxide. It smells almost nothing and leaves no residue on clothes, unlike iron chloride

[@mark0305]

have been doing this for about 1 year, good to see some one make a video about this method

[@remotepinecone]

4 layer 8 layer?? Cuz a uv light is $3 you can use a magic marker to do etching by drawing it.

[@blahblahblah118]

Couldn't you just 3d print PLA direclty onto the "fruit rollup" Then attach that to the copper and use a regular UV light to cure it?

[@Nik930714]

And as far as the xtools machine for 4 grand goes, i could literally get 1000 different designs, 5 boards each for that price, if we exclude shipment. With shipment probably 100 designs, if you have like 3-4 designs per order. It really doesn't seam like its worth the money right now.

[@rosly_yt]

It seems like this process removes most of the more difficult to work with parts of a resin printer - no fluid of any kind is needed or even desirable while printing, the slicer doesn't need to support more than one layer, there's no need for multiple layers or the precise mechanical motions associated with moving the build plate up, and it seems like there's not much need to worry about toxicity compared to regular resin printers - at least, while printing. (we assume here that the post-processing is manual to keep the price of the printer down) Resin printers are already very cheap at the low end, I feel like a stand alone product that just did PCBs would probably be doable at under $100 if you could get economy of scale rolling. .5mm is also well within the abilities of most FDM printers' motion systems (you could probably do .1 on most even), a small UV light mounted as part of a toolhead could get us a lot closer to the reprap dream of a self-replicating printer. I know SunShine is doing it with by plating plastic using electroplating, but I think a small UV laser makes more sense. The advantage of using an FDM printer for this is that it could even theoretically do the post-processing autonomously assuming you had a toothbrush-compatible toolhead.

[@MisterkeTube]

Sounds like you just needed the cheapest possible SLA printer instead of that Formlabs as it would not have all those checks you had to bypass. You just push that buildplate up instead of down when the printer is in the home position and the plate-screws are loosened and the screw them down while there are several mm's of room under it.

[@tcurdt]

Just get some PCBs that already have a film layer. Would be interesting to see how this would improve the result.

[@stephen_hawes]

Ah yes ive seen those, I should definitely give that a try. totally eliminate the error from my application process

[@CandyGramForMongo_]

Printing a PCB on acetate and using it to control exposure to UV would be far easier and cheaper.

[@vvatashi4259]

And how about just printing a single layer of plastic directly onto copper with a classic FDM printer?

[@JosephCatrambone]

Absurd idea: what about using an FDM printer to print a single dense layer on the copper board?

[@JanJanJanJanJanJanJanJanJan2]

Do they finally support Linux?

[@adamarmfield1069]

you can neutralise ferric with sodium bicarbonate I think

[@Amarthol1]

Sorry, but I laughed a bit when you said two layer boards are hard to do. But I do work at a PCB fab shop, and biggest I've seen is 26 layer!

[@chalycanmonroe]

WHAT YOU KIDS DOING OUT OF Class, wait till i give you all a HIDING if i see you here again

[@iliya-malecki]

Have you worked with Mr stuff made here?

[@siberx4]

I store my used ferric chloride on a shelf in an old rum bottle I found on a beach, extensively labeled with a lot of _very clear text and images_ to confirm it is Bad Stuff. I have yet to etch enough to need to figure out what to do with the bottle once it's full, but I'm not looking forward to it. That being said, I haven't etched a board myself in years because the fabrication services have just gotten so darn cheap and fast that it's tough to justify all the equipment and time unless you _absolutely must_ have a prototype board same-day.

[@wombora]

thats what i call a PRINTED circuit board :D

[@xConundrumx]

Tried this, no thanks... I finally settled for my boards (and these are just small boards, even doublesided works) on using a fiber laser. But not to ablate the copper. The problem you run into (or I did at least) is that you often end up burning the substrate. And that leads to a whole new slew of issues. The way I do it is way easier anyway (and with less wear and tear on the laser). I spray fotoresist on it (you used film, it also comes in sprays). Hell it's also way old photoresist, it doesn't matter too much. I use spray because it just makes life easier. And then I cure the photoresist on the whole board. That's right the whole board gets sprayed and exposed to UV light (in fact I often use the curing station of my resin printer). Cure it on there good. Finally I use the fiber laser on lower power to just blast away the resist on the parts of the board I want etched. If you take care to focus the beam right you get good results with little to no effort. And then it goes into the usual etchant of choice. I even made a small shaker with a servo and a servo tester of amazon. It moves a tupperware tub back and forth on an Igus rail I got in an Igus linear guide sample pack causing the etchant to have just enough motion for improved results. Works like a treat. From finished pcb design to finished board in less than an hour. Best part? you could even use much the same process to silk screen the board (spray white paint on the finished PCB, laser away what you don't want) and finally coat it with soldermask, cure that and again laser away what you don't need. Though I rarely bother going that far with it.

[@ronnetgrazer362]

There's a UV printer at my office, max 300x500mm sheet size. Hmm.

[@michaelmensch578]

Hi Stephen Here in Philadelphia you can pour Ferric Chloride down the drain. A friend that worked for the Philadelphia Water Department said that they actually use Ferric Chloride to separate the heavy metals out of the waste water. He said they use 1000’s of gallons at a time.

[@flisboac]

I think the problem is not the Ferric Chloride, but the copper the solution accumulates over time.