Making Rollers For An Etching Press - Manual Machining And Welding

[@swanvalleymachineshop]

Good one . I like the shaft weld design . Don't forget you have a tailstock chuck , they would help settle things . Back years ago , i made about 70 of those things about 450 & 500mm dia , had to use a tool similar to a Kennametal fix 8 to deal with the chatter & turn from the centre back to the chuck then flip them around . The worst were the crowned ones that had to be done between centres with the tailstock off set as they were about 1200 mm long . That job nearly sent me batty from countless days welding with the rotator ! The good old late 1980's ! Cheers 👍👍👍

[@RalfyCustoms]

29:37 Josh lol, that's one of my words! 😂 fair play mate, honestly nice that you actually show it exactly how it is, just like me, big love buddy

[@TopperMachineLLC]

I almost edited it out. Lol

[@johnscott8592]

@@TopperMachineLLC thank you for not editing it out Josh! I’m Scottish and that word is used in so many different ways. Mostly as a punctuation mark, and not always in a negative way either. There’s the happy c***, the good c***, the funny c*** and so on. Too many to list and just to say that you sir a a good c***! Keep going Josh god is gracious to good C***’s.

[@redmorphius]

I love it. Shows how it really is

[@TopperMachineLLC]

@@redmorphius this job was the worst rollers I've ever made. But I now know how to approach grossly undersized shafts.

[@redmorphius]

@@TopperMachineLLC you almost need a 3 jaw tailstock . That would probably helped, or maybe run the steady rest on that shaft also

[@Flea-Flicker]

I was in the printing business for 27 years. I would rate this an A-1 round roller that will work well in any machine.

[@TopperMachineLLC]

Thanks for the high praise.

[@robertoswalt319]

Hey, i was in printing for a couple of decades as well. My experience was mostly sheetfed offset.

[@robertoswalt319]

Is there any way you could use a steady rest to help calm the center disc down? I really like your trick to control the heat affected zone on those rollers. That is a tip I definitely need to remember.

[@TopperMachineLLC]

@robertoswalt319 time is money. Since the center disk doesn't much matter, it would be a waste of time to set up the steady. A much heavier shaft would cure all the problems.

[@shannonstebbens6992]

A learning experience for all of us!

[@gusviera3905]

Another episode of Machining ASMR! Nice trick to keep the harmonics down. Thanks for showing us how it's done, Josh. Have a good week!

[@alanm3438]

Thanks for the video. I love the process. It is so neat how you got everything trued up. I also like that you took the sharp edges off. Great job on the video. Good to see Rocky take a walk by to check on you.

[@bcooo1]

Very informative and the "Toilet Paper" comment was spot on.

[@fichambawelby2632]

Nice to see you here once again, Josh!

[@davidtaylor6124]

Those roller welds must have been satisfying! Nice job.

[@markvoluckas4571]

I like the way you secured the shaft in the disks, by using the gussets inside eliminates the break point a weld to the disk makes.

[@phlodel]

I, too, have made a lot of rollers. I've always done them wrong, welding around the shaft. Your plan makes sense. One thing we did different was make the shaft oversized, then turn it down between centers where the bearings install.

[@TopperMachineLLC]

I agree on the shaft, but realistically for the application, it is way too small.

[@derekcomer4858]

That roller design is genius 🏆

[@TopperMachineLLC]

Thanks.

[@markat9576]

Nice job on building the rollers. Keep sending the videos and we’ll keep watching them.

[@eyuptony]

Nice one Josh. Great video and tips. Glad the surface finish turned out really well. Cheers Tony

[@edsmachine93]

Very nice job Josh. Great idea on the shaft support gussets. I like the 2x4 vibration dampner. Thanks for sharing. Have a great weekend. 👍🇺🇸👍

[@coleenlofgren6385]

I love your honesty, some jobs are just challenging. As usual you did an excelent job!!

[@TopperMachineLLC]

Thank you!

[@chrisj8822]

Back in my days as a mechanic, we would use a rubber strap around the outside of brake drums to dampen the ringing when turning. I wonder if adding a couple of rubber rollers to the 2x4 would help dampen the ringing a little more?

[@TopperMachineLLC]

That's an interesting idea. Thanks.

[@legionofanon]

I was thinking of something using rubber wheels when he was turning that center support. My thought was between the wheels of a steady rest and the two point support opposite of the grinder for a crank shaft grinding machine. I was thinking if you had a rigid spot behind the machine to mount an arm with spring loaded rubber wheels, I think it would dampen the chatter, give a little deflection support and with it spring loaded adjust itself through a cut when you were turning the OD of the roller

[@alandawson2813]

Wow that was interesting. Learned a lot thanks Josh. From kiwi land.

[@BrucePierson]

That was a good idea the way you welded the end plates on. It's much stronger than welding all the way around and as you mentioned, it takes the stress away from the shaft. Now you've let the cat out of the bag!

[@TopperMachineLLC]

I was hoping nobody would notice. Lol

[@michaelandersen7535]

I didn't ever think to go that slow when evading chatter. I guess I believed too much in all that "carbide needs high SFM" stuff they taught me. Today i learned, you can slow waaay down and it works great if time isnt an issue. Thank you!

[@mrricky3816]

Thanks!

[@TopperMachineLLC]

Thank you.

[@user-oi8tg3dq7t]

Greetings from the oldest town in Texas, Nacogdoches. Hope you’re keeping warm and dry. A year ago a Rush Machinery 250A needed a home and it has been wonderful. It sharpens drills perfectly.

[@TopperMachineLLC]

I looked at the rush machines.

[@harryvanniekerk7269]

I found your presentation most informing and very interresting. Thank You!

[@adhawk5632]

Optical delusion 🤣thats a new one. I'll use that one for sure, cool tip with the rollers👍🇦🇺👌

[@kentuckytrapper780]

Excellent job Josh..

[@bostedtap8399]

Never an easy product to manufacture. Tough nut cracked Josh. Thanks for sharing

[@jamesriordan3494]

No one has ever accused Josh Topper of being a quitter !

[@TopperMachineLLC]

Nope. I'm too stupid to quit.

[@jamesriordan3494]

I’m wondering (if you ever do another) if the cavities inside the roller could be filled with an inert material like cat litter prior to welding to preempt chatter ? Maybe some form of external heavy rubber band clamp ? Either more internal mass or external harmonic dampening ?

[@TopperMachineLLC]

Bigger shaft is the correct answer.

[@gofastwclass]

​@TopperMachineLLC, you should have used the big Johnson. 😂

[@scottfarnham2717]

Well done, Josh!! Chatter can be a real pain in the butt!!! Perseverance always wins!

[@stephenbridges2791]

That was pretty innovative with the board and weight. Cool.

[@Mike.Lehmann]

Great video as always. Love your tenacity and how you solve problems!

[@TopperMachineLLC]

Glad you enjoy it!

[@TheJohndeere466]

We make cable drums for overhead cranes. They use much thicker tubing, maybe 2" thick and some 20' long. We usually weld in the endplates and the hubs and then bore the inside on the horizontal boring mills. The shaft is then usually pressed in. This way the shaft itself has no welding done to it. Then we put the whole thing in the lathe and turn the od and machine the cable grooves. We used to turn these in a large monarch but when they will fit we turn and groove them on Leadwell cnc lathe. The grooves come out beautiful.

[@TopperMachineLLC]

I've done a couple small cable drums. They are fun. Always love cutting that beautiful round thread for the cable to track.

[@TheJohndeere466]

@TopperMachineLLC our one monarch cuts leads rather than threads per inch. It will cut leads like .875 or .750 or 1.25. Of course our cnc will cut any lead.

[@TopperMachineLLC]

@TheJohndeere466 interesting. Myst have been set up that way from new?

[@TheJohndeere466]

@@TopperMachineLLC yes it was

[@robjaimiehickford4559]

Hi Josh, still a good result in the end. Those rollers are a pain, but longer ones are even more so. I’ve worked for various customers making them the way they want them, lower rpm’s , smaller radius tools with approach angle created to reduce tool pressure do help too. Yep, like the supports at rear of end flanges. For saw mills they weld on outside flanges for thru shafts as long as the weld sites were preheated. So when the shafts or keyways were flogged out I could turn off the welds and replace shaft only. And then there’s the carpet factory that wanted two stub shafts either end with four flanges. Oversized shafts, journal ends unwelded, but the rest all over shaft to flange fully welded. Machined flange/shaft stubs to fit roller tube, then 3 or 4 holes drilled to around roller to rosette weld the inner support flange. Preheat outer flange/roller tube and weld. As we had a large bore lathe with two chucks, I clock up both ends the best I could get it. Centre drill one end of shaft journal , then support with live centre and turn journal down to size. Then repeat process. There was no need the turn tube dia, it’s only carpet support rollers.

[@rexmyers991]

I stumbled on the 2 x 4 trick years ago (1965) in a auto brake shop turning shoe type brake drums. A large rubber band wrapped around usually eliminated chatter. But one job ( a large truck bake drum still chattered. I held a 2x4 against it and the chatter stopped. Excellent work, Sir!

[@lapoint7603]

Josh, thanks for another great video. I like that you showed some of the difficulties involved with what should be a fairly simple part to make. I had to laugh at some of the innuendos in this video. Early on you commented that it's a "small shaft and it's hard to get a good grip on it". I wanted to reply with "That's what she said!! As another viewer noted at 29:38 your frustration produced a hilarious comment. I eagerly await the drop of your videos on Saturday mornings. I really like your follow up videos also. Thanks again and have a Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays.

[@RalfyCustoms]

Happy days Josh, hope you're keeping well buddy, thanks for sharing 👍

[@WarPhotographer1974]

I love your work! You are an artist and a perfectionist, great job!

[@TopperMachineLLC]

Thanks!

[@roliver64111]

i really like the snap-jaws for a mill vise best money i have spent !! thanks for the videos keep them coming!

[@TopperMachineLLC]

Me too. Absolutely love them.

[@37yearsofanythingisenough39]

I would not be without them in a job shop

[@randydoolitle6867]

Some times you learn, some times you earn. All is Good. Thanks

[@michaelgould5467]

Josh, regarding your vibration issues while turning the rollers to finished size, you have made whats called a "Closed end Resonator" or "Stopped end Resonator" this explains the sound (and vibration) that you are getting. Your use of a "deadening arm" helped due to dampening the oscillations. In wood turning there are designs for a vertical vibration dampener using an adjustable weight attached to the head stock. Speeds and feeds of course help too. Thanks for sharing, ---M---

[@jaybaeten3427]

Great tip on welding roller end plates Josh; goes to show you, your never to old to learn! Enjoy your videos!

[@frankerceg4349]

Thank you Josh!

[@wagsman9999]

Love this manual machining. The power plant I worked at for many years had an enormous machine shop - sadly, hardly ever in use. Cheaper to outsource, I guess.

[@davidaarons2488]

Your 2x4-weight worked, When I had to true brake drums at work, we had a 2.5in wide 1/4in thick rubber band that rapped around the drum to keep them from ringing. Turned out nice. Have a Merry Christmas and Happy New year Josh

[@ralphaverill2001]

Well done. Very good video.

[@chief8388]

Great work!

[@ypaulbrown]

Wonderful Josh…..❤

[@rogeriocosta1035]

Nice tip for axle, A simple solution that makes total sense after you see, but not easy to figure out.

[@GeorgeBracht]

Josh Nice Job! I thought I was the only that used the 2x4 follow rest. Another thing I have had good luck with is using a tool that uses a VNMP inset. It has a positive relief angle. No heavy cuts but very free cutting with very minimal contact area

[@TopperMachineLLC]

No work coming in, means less money for tooling. I could have used some different tooling, but don't have the money to spend right now.

[@GeorgeBracht]

@ Totally understand Most of my tooling has been garbage picked, liquidations, auctions & people who didn’t know what they had I’ve gone back to milling parts with slab mills in the K&T just to not have the tooling cost. Most of my plain milling cutters came from a school auction. I thought I was bidding on about 10 cutters Ended up with 4 5 gallon buckets of cutters. It was actually the trade school I went to in the early 80’s

[@wallbawden5511]

nice job there always showing us the how to get it done Cheers

[@TheUncleRuckus]

I knew I wasn't the only one that uses lumber to stop the ringing on pipe! I have four foot long 4"×4" post I cut the belly out of with a 6" by 2" steel cutoff lag bolted to the end at work for this very purpose. I used to get a lot of shit for it but after seeing how effective it is I haven't heard a thing lol. 👍👍

[@danielharris6934]

Awesome video learned a ton!

[@BruceBoschek]

Good job as always. 😊

[@theundergroundesd]

🤫 I hope this was marked as "Not for kids" Good job on the video. Keep up the good work.

[@ellieprice363]

Love that weighted two x four and the improvement it brought in finish. Sometimes a brazed carbide tool works better than an insert on jobs like this.

[@TopperMachineLLC]

A positive rake insert would have helped too.

[@wmweekendwarrior1166]

Good stuff

[@Xjneun]

Wow nice! Thanks for sharing your way to Go on these shafts Josh! I love your absolutly nice skills and craftsmanship and i love your Videos too! I am a metalworker by my Self in germany and have to admid that you would easy pass the „Master“ Test here in germany. Greetings from over the big sea. And thanks for all your Videos! I enjoy them absolutley every time

[@TopperMachineLLC]

Thank you.

[@seldendaniel8819]

Perseverance!

[@dc5723]

You're awesome man!

[@TopperMachineLLC]

Thank you!

[@timf6916]

Good job

[@MWL4466]

Its rolls like that that gave me grey hair. Sometimes it only worked turning from the chuck to the tailstock. Sometimes a different insert. A lot of the time i would use the two by four trick. It was always different. But, you persevere, walk away from it if it's pissing you off. Go smoke 'em if you got 'em. 😅. Yea, the small journals dont help. You got er done. Nice. Cheers from Canada.

[@TWilliam-ft8xi]

Thanks for sharing

[@CrazyRFGuy]

That exactly what we do for our wind generator bases. Kept having them snap at the circular welds. Did long gussets and skip welding them.

[@number2664]

Drill and tap the end plates, fill it with water for turning, then drain at the end. Works well.

[@mikeking7470]

Oooh, ooh, ooh I actually know what a "cherry" is! (And the rest of you get your minds out of the gutter.) Looking forward to that video, too.

[@TopperMachineLLC]

Lol

[@ssboot5663]

Ill be looking forward to learning what that rear head on the mill is all about. I've never seen one of those before, but my Mill has a spot for it as well. >>Nice heavy-duty roller for sure! Thanks for the videos!

[@TopperMachineLLC]

There were several options for the BP. This is just one of them.

[@tsmartin]

Nice tracer cutting torch in the background. Ever use it much? Nice tip on roller construction. Wish I had known about this technique while I was still working. The company that supplied rollers for our equipment did the weld around the shaft thing and of course they broke. I could have informed them to try your method. But then again if they built parts that lasted they wouldn't have repeat business for rollers.

[@lwilton]

At around 13:12, I was a little surprised you had the edge of the insert so close to parallel to the edge of the disk. It looks to me that you don't start getting chatter until about a quarter of the way into turning the disk, and at that point it looks like the shaft is flexing and the edge of the disk is bouncing against the flat of the insert side. I'm pretty sure I can see chips coming off the disk way back from the cutting point of the tool, indicating contact with the side of the insert. I wonder if you had used a pointy-er insert, or clocked the holder so only the corner of the insert contacted, if you might have had less problems with chatter.

[@TopperMachineLLC]

Good point. That flimsy little shaft was just flexing like crazy causing all kinds of problems

[@huntncover]

I made the same observation . And thought of the same solution .

[@ellieprice363]

Thanks for sharing some of your valuable experience with us. Suggestion; for less chatter use an insert with a smaller radius or a sharp HSS tool with positive side rake, 15 degree lead angle, and a very small tip radius.

[@TopperMachineLLC]

I need to order some smaller radius inserts. It's on the list if work ever comes back it. No money right now.

[@ellieprice3396]

@@TopperMachineLLC HSS will work in a pinch. You can actually grind carbide inserts to make them sharper with a smaller radius if you have a carbide grinder with a diamond wheel.

[@Hyratel]

your hand grind on the flutes looks like it made a beautiful chip, even if your center grind was a bit wandery

[@TopperMachineLLC]

Yeah, the center needed to be split a little more.

[@passenger6735]

Hi Josh, just a thought but could you drill a couple of holes in the diameter of the tube about half way and weld the centre disc in place. It may reduce the harmonics a little by adding rigidity. Great video. Bob UK.

[@TopperMachineLLC]

Done applications call for welded internal plates. The only thing that would have fixed this problem would be a much larger shaft.

[@GardenTractorBoy]

Great video and thanks for the tip on building rollers. That is the first time I have know political leaflets to be useful 🙂

[@PioneerRifleCompany]

One of the tricks we used at RMERC was a polyurethane cast tire over a cast iron roller and using it as a damping roller. Attached to the back of the lathe and swung up vertically when not needed. It must employ adjustable tension as to not deflect the spinning part. We tried it with follow rests but follow rests are limited diameter devices and tend to be in the way, obviously. It seems today, with computerized speeds, most harmonic issues are solved by varying RPM on the fly.

[@MyLilMule]

Looking forward to the follow up video on this one. I am curious if in retrospect you would have tried anything different (maybe HSS tooling vs. carbide?). Do you think if you used a tailstock chuck it would have helped with the rigidity at all? I learn a lot from watching your channel, Josh. Thanks for sharing.

[@Dalbayob69]

No doubt you’ll do a follow up video so here’s my good or stupid(you decide🤣) suggestion. I would use V blocks to hold the bar, then push the plates up to side of V blocks to keep everything nice and square for welding. Might be just my ocd, that wobble on middle plate would deive me nuts🤣. Other than that, sweet as. For the ringing, my dad used to ise a sandbag just resting on top of the part hanging from the shop crane.

[@TopperMachineLLC]

The wobble doesn't matter, it got trued up. The sand bag is a good idea.

[@workingovertime4429]

What I have been doing with rollers is making the shaft bigger and turning them to size on the end found this helps with the chatter the other thing I stumbled across while using the same inserts shape and rake as you are using was to feed backwards ( from chuck to tail stock) it was the only thing that worked for that one job

[@TopperMachineLLC]

@workingovertime4429 I asked the customer if I could make the shaft that way. "No, do it as designed" what a bad design.

[@workingovertime4429]

Well as I was taught rule 1 the customer is always right rule2 if customer is wrong refer to rule1 well thanks for another good video looking forward to the Wednesday video

[@ljackson8220]

Nice

[@aaronbaird3533]

I wish conveyor roller manufacturers would adopt the three plates and weld gussets. Resonance can be a real pickle sometimes. 🎉

[@doncervera]

Great video, shows the complexity to turn with large ratios. Maybe similar to piano strings and their cloth dampeners, some cloth with weight can damper better? Also put it in the middle / quarter of the roller, and not directly where the cutter is. There usually is an optimal dampening spot which is related to the length vs mass of the object, it isn't related to the position of the source of vibration, thats why the tone doesn't change with movenent, only intensity

[@larryblount3358]

Maybe the customer will send a picture(s) of the rollers installed. I would be neat to see an etching press.

[@claude-andrenicolet6671]

Hell, great video like always. Why you don't instaled the stadyrest for the central flange DO? Br from Switzerland

[@anxietyislandllc]

Josh, you're the man! Laughed at your invective at 29.38 minutes in. 😆🤙

[@TopperMachineLLC]

Glad to provide some entertainment! 😄

[@michaelmileski9830]

A TPG insert cutter will cut with less chatter compared to the CNMG.

[@TopperMachineLLC]

I was trying to figure out what insert would be better. We always turned rollers with cnmg. I was thinking a smaller radius.

[@jimc4731]

Often times brazed carbide or premium high speed tooling works best, that is if you are adept and capable at sharpening them. You got the job done, that’s what counts! Keep up the good work JIM ❤

[@michaelmileski9830]

@@TopperMachineLLC Especially on a manual lathe, the rake angles on a CNMG make small vibrations turn into huge chatter. Even with different top surface shapes, the downward angle the inset is held creates forces that can't be over come. A TPG with a 1 size nose held square to the cut will knock out a lot of those forces. Especially on a manual lathe.

[@rmorganii]

I love your video s Josh! Thank you for sharing. I am not a machinist but could you use a steady rest on this?

[@curtisroberts9137]

I agree with you about the ads. With the cardboard they use now it's too shiny and waterproof to make good toilet paper! At least you found something useful to do with it.

[@TopperMachineLLC]

I got a nasty paper cut last time. Not wiping with that crap again. Although it is satisfying to know they kissed my arse. Lol

[@curtisroberts9137]

@@TopperMachineLLC 🤣🤣

[@ddblairco]

thank you

[@clayz1]

On some engine lathes you can vary the RPM as you cut, which might keep the cut from talking back at you. This works well on CNC lathes, but that isn't what we are doing here. Ive done many tube shafts myself.

[@Rez441]

At the previous shop I worked at they sometimes had to use a stack of 4x4 wood screwed together to weigh on the rolls to deal with the chattering. Sometimes a 1400-2000mm dia roll needs quite a bit of weight on it to stop singing 😅

[@kennyrmurray]

I’d like to see that other head in action. I’m dying up a right angle attachment right now. Hopefully I’ll have time to go pick it up next week

[@kennyrmurray]

You shoulda tried your chuck instead of the if it’s accurate. Maybe it would hold it tighter? Just a thought, certainly not telling you how to do it

[@Stefan_Van_pellicom]

28:59 It ain’t stupid if it works! 👍

[@BobOBob]

I've seen something like that done with what amounted to a pneumatic wheelbarrow tire on a follow rest. Water part-filling the tire.

[@nobuckle40]

Does something like this have a surface finish spec?

[@TopperMachineLLC]

Yes, and it was well within spec. I would not let it leave rough.

[@nobuckle40]

I thought it might. I used to polish stripper plates for punch press die shoes and the finish had to be almost mirror in some cases. Do you think you might be able to talk about surface finishes at some point?

[@nopenoper9644]

Would a steady rest in the middle work to stop the chatter when cutting the center disc?

[@evo-labs]

Would it be worthwhile using a welding jig for the discs to ensure they are perpendicular to the shaft?

[@TopperMachineLLC]

Not necessarily

[@ponkkaa]

I use the same basic system when woodturning a long thin piece. It gets in the way, but it stops the squeal.

[@gordonquigley2267]

Hey Josh, a thought, could several plug welds on the centre spacer help with resonance?

[@davidtyndall8880]

I never knew that Home Depot sold machine shop supplies... LOL

[@TopperMachineLLC]

I don't shop there, or any of the other big chains. My lumber usually comes off my own mill. This board came off a pallet from God knows where. Lol

[@oldadthomas]

thanks

[@ThePottingShedWorkshop]

How about a steady for the outboard discs? I guess the shaft may not run true enough. I really enjoy your content. I try to learn as many tips as I can from all the videos I watch, yours included!

[@ThePottingShedWorkshop]

Nice use of Anglo Saxon English around 30:00! 😂

[@TopperMachineLLC]

There is just no good way to use a steady rest on this.

[@Bob_H]

it ain't stupid if it works, great if it works and is cheap, spectacular if it works and is free! I forget what county I was in and they had advertisement on the toilet paper. If it takes an hour to turn but you were able to do other constructive things during that time, that's better than watching it for 10 mins a pass. PS I will always laugh at machinists polishing with 180 paper, we wood turners call that roughing in paper. Pens I sand to 27,000 grit.

[@jamesbonnema1041]

Thanks, josh, That's a very enlightening vid. I've never made rollers like that, but could see that they're challenging with small shafts. Are shafts just 1018, or 4140?