Do you need a expensive stick welder? $6,000 machine vs 99$ machine.

On this bonus episode we do some comparisons between arguably the most expensive 200 amp stick capable welder you can get and one of the cheapest Amazon specials. The results might surprise you.
My video on arc force
• How to stick weld 👨🏻‍🏭...

[@G5Hohn]

A note on the shrinkage. This is a phenomenon of hot yielding. When the metal gets hot, it not only expands (or tries to) but it gets weaker and yields more easily. When the metal wants to expand (due to heating) but can't expand as far as it wants to, it yields in compression. This is fancy engineer speak for saying "it shrinks". The most common example I can think of that is relatable is exhaust manifolds. Manifolds get hot but often can't expand to their full limit because the mounting bolts are preventing them from moving. So instead, they hot yield in compression (shrink) and get smaller. In some cases, they can ratchet smaller and smaller until their break the bolts off. WHen you see loose or broken exhaust manifolds (or bolts, especially) this is why. The most reliability exhaust manifold designs tend to be small and multipiece with flexible (bellows style) connections, so the total expansion can stay within a limit. Remembrer, the expansion is some many mm per mm per degree, so the bigger it is, the more it expands at the same temperature. Hence the advantage of smaller sections.

[@jmyers9853]

i have three old Lincoln welders, two red Tombs, one an AC/DC and an Ideal Arc they had been underwater in the hurricanes but brought back to life. bought two inverters a Miller and a Thermal Arc, they both crapped out, the old transformer welders just keep going, no more inverters for me. most of the Chinese welders have no repair support.

[@harisyoung4110]

Usually with these chinese made welder it just a mosfet or capacitor inside that burn off.. just need a multimeter and a solder, its only less than $5 fix.. i have help fix a couple of this welder for my friend..

[@xanatax1844]

@@harisyoung4110… that’s really awesome to know! thank you! 💜

[@robertlaw8510]

About 2 years ago I bought an Amico 200 for about $190 dollars. It has surprised me with how good it is. I'm not a professional welder by any stretch, but I get by. It will easily run the 1/8 6010, 6011, 6013, 7014, and 7018. It can even run a 5/32 6010. If someone doesn't have a ton of money I recommend that welder. It even has hot start. Your review of the smaller welder and explanation of why many inverters have a problem with 6010 is very good.

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

Good heads up on that welder. I have heard other people mention that brand, and if it can run 6010 that’s a great thing.

[@chaddowns901]

Ive had the same welder for about 4 years and it's been solid up to this point. It was also functional as a scratch-start tig, but I wouldn't suggest it. I definitely advise against using it as a carbon arc torch. It doesn't end well.

[@andoni848]

Hi, @@chaddowns901. I was planning to use my cheap welder as a carbon arc torch, so I am interested in your experience, what happened?

[@mikeingeorgia1]

You always add some special tidbit of info that wouldn’t have even crossed my mind. 👍 My favorite stick welder would have to be (by default) the Chicago Electric 80 amp inverter machine. It’s the only stick welder I’ve ever used. I love that it has a dial to enable me to fine tune its power. That’s a very helpful feature!

[@chuckmiller5763]

We bought one of those called an Amico just for fun, it has an arc force control that allows you to run 6010. Crazy thing is we like using it. It weighs about 3 pounds. $169.00 om Amazon 2 years ago.

[@_hector__]

Is it an Amico 200 amp stick welder? Its for 189 now so its probably that

[@andoni848]

Hi, Greg. I am watching your stick welding videos and I wanted to thank you for your effort and generosity. I had little experience with SMAW and I am really enjoying your explanations!

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

Thanks for the kind comment 😀. My goal is to help people realize they can learn to do things and they don’t need to be afraid of failing. If you’re into building anything welding is a useful skill to have. Not to mention you don’t need to be that good at it to actually make solid welds. It just takes some practice, a bunch of failures, and some decent information to get a handle on it.

[@xanatax1844]

Amazon is bringing me a tiny Stick Welder tomorrow! … 😊 Gonna be burning a few sticks down, just to practice striking an arc … watch some more videos in between sticks, or whatnot. 😁👍 🤔 then tack-welds, I think, since that’s most of the reason I bought it … but I’m getting ahead of myself. I’ve been told I want that “strike an arc” skill to be second-nature, … minimize the frustration learning *all* the other stuff.

[@kauairalph108]

I got the little red one, facing trouble pooling even with 3/32 6011

[@danielsplayhouse3804]

A lot of it depends on the open voltage on it for the stick welding some machines have a low open voltage and machines with the higher open voltage makes it easier for the 6010 and 6011.

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

You are correct. I owned a Lincoln tig 200 and it’s open circuit voltage was somewhere around 24-25 volts. It barely ran a 6011, and wouldn’t run a 6010 at all. The little red Amazon special in the video actually has 80 volts open circuit, which makes arc starts easy, but under load it struggled to maintain above 26volts. Obviously it is built as cheap as possible but the fact it runs 6011 is good since many inverters will even struggle with that rod lol.

[@stevenbodum3405]

Thats true. For normal welding i want a machine with something around 70v open voltage. For welding inside a barrel its better to use a welder with 42v and below, because of safty reasons. Cheap weldres drop their voltage to much when runnig. Thats why i still run my old transformer 380v three phase and 220v single phase machines in AC and DC.

[@AXNJXN1]

So I don’t take ANY of this trashing ON the smaller welder, in fact, you educated me on what I wasn’t paying attention too on my rod size against lower amperage’s concerning cheaper or less halibut rod manufacturers as I do think they affect this just as much… Several things to take into consideration but this just makes sense!

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

Stick welding can definitely be done on affordable welders, much more so than cheap mig or especially tig welders. The little red one in this video is actually a pretty useable welder once you get past it’s flaws and learn to use it. I will be using it in a couple future videos too. For around the garage use it’s hard to go wrong with the 100$ price tag.

[@xanatax1844]

@@makingmistakeswithgreg… oh, heyyy! 🤩 That was some wisdom! We probably okay with cheapo Stick Welders … but beware of cheap MIG, and especially TIG? 😳 I will remember that, and pay attention when I am looking to upgrate to a TIG, or MIG. Hopefully, by then I’ll have learned what I need!

[@jimw.3225]

I've got three stick capable welders. A multiprocess Amico MTS-205. Really great welder for a lot less than the well known brand name ones. A HITBOX AT2000 stick only pretty much like your little red one and welds about the same as yours. And a DEKO PRO MMA 160A with arc force, anti-stick, rod size selection and a bit more. The DEKO PRO is better than the HITBOX and only a few dollars more. It will do 3/32 6010 but only just but that may be my lack of skill, and I haven't tried 1/8. Of the three I like the Amico best for welding at home. The DEKO PRO is nice because it welds well and is much easier to transport. When I want wire feed away from home I have a Harbor Freight Titanium Flux 125, absolutely fantastic little welder.

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

I looked at the dekko pro but bought the hone due to being able to get it over night lol. Honestly the harbor freight titanium 125 makes stick irrelevant for most stuff under 1/8th thick. Above that thickness stick will offer more options (and of course require more user skill). One thing regarding the 6010, is the way many inverters adjust amperage it’s possible that at higher amperage they will have better 6010 performance. When they reduce the output amperage the operating voltage (under load) is reduced as well. At 70 amps vs 120amps a welder may only have 26 volts at 70 and 30 at 120. Generally 6010 performance gets worse the lower you set the amperage due to the “volt/amp curve” of many machines. Also, I will be doing a 6010/6011 video next week to give tips how to run it right. There will be a ton of tips to help up your 6010/11 skill 👍

[@ericarachel55]

I bought a "Tooliom" 115v model for $68 with amazon prime on a whim, it works and welds similar to the one in the video, I figured for the money it was worth it to have something super portable that worked on 115v for those quick repairs

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

If it gets the job done it’s a useful tool. The hard part is getting them dialed in. If it will run at least one rod you like good, you’re set. Far easier to carry a little 8lb box around to do a quick job than a 20+ lb unit lol.

[@o.t112]

If you got a clamp multimeter, I'd love to see the output amps as opposed to the dial. I have one of these for use with a generator using 3/32 rods mainly and have seen that on my particular machine it is between 2 - 5 amps off either + or - of the dial.

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

I do have a clamp multi meter, I will have to take it back from my buddy and I will post up a test within a week. Based on what I remember only around 90 amps is when it’s actually accurate and that is on 110 input voltage. Every other point things are all over the place 😂. The sticker doesn’t match the lcd screen either, the lcd said 90 amps and the sticker doesn’t say 90 amps. When I first bought it I set it for 90 and tried to run a 7018 uphil and it was way hot 😂. I will just test 60 to 120 amps at 10 volt increments while shooting a video and I know it will be all over.

[@jarltroyreviews]

Hone is one of the better Chinese lunchbox welders, Lintone was very disappointing, but showed signs of damage in shipping.

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

I actually did a bunch of jobs with that 100$ welder, definitely useable and far easier than hauling a big heavy welder around.

[@thedtmann]

Hey Greg, thanks for you efforts! I completely agree with you about the Titanium 225 and it's #4 ranking, unlike other stick welders it is true to its Ampere rating, very well built inverter hot start welder and a true workhorse. I trust Titanium, I own two of them and also trust companies who are honest about their product specifications. Great work Greg, I value your videos, keep it up!

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

Thanks. I definitely put a lot of weight into companies that don’t false advertise. The fact harbor freight offers pretty solid welders for very little money is great, because I can recommend them to someone on a budget. No, they aren’t 2k high end units, but they do exactly what they need too and have proven themselves. When you start going down the Amazon special alley most of it is trash and it can be really hard to find something worth recommending.

[@xanatax1844]

I came back for more Stick Welding 😅 … but clicked this 1st. Wish I’d watched this before I ordered the cheap Amazon unit, but I’d have still ordered, I think. 😊 I suspected most of this, but really had to work hard to guess. (noting, all the cheap stick-welders have similar designs … I spent a few hours realing comments on a bunch of them … then just ordered the cheapest.) 🤷‍♀️ These little guys look pretty limited … but everyone says they DO function, for *small* jobs. 😂 yeah, I’m just working in the driveway. 👍

[@xanatax1844]

reminds me of buying a $10 soldering iron … using it until the tip died, then buying a better unit, rather than just buying new tips for the crappy one. 😂 when I got good … at some point, I think I paid about $100 for a nice solder station, complete with hot-air gun. 👍 (which is more than I paid for the tiny Stick Welder) 😆

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

What solder station did you buy? I am in the market for one and need to start looking.

[@M70ACARRY]

Some of the better inexpensive machines are Arccaptian. Mine handles 6010 fine.

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

Which arc captain do you have? It’s good to know they have a machine that will run 6010, there aren’t many affordable options for stick machines that will run 6010.

[@joewest2560]

My thought is for non commercial use on an intermittent use basis, the cheapest are just fine. I might opt for a 160 amp model for a few bucks more with the hope the circuitry would be a tad beefier. Even the larger Chinese welders IMO are a better value for things like 200 amp tig. Shit, I bet they're all made in China anyway.

[@bryanjones14]

Those little machines are great for tig welding , for some reason they never like to weld 6010 of anysize

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

Yeah they struggle with 6010 because they can’t produce enough voltage while welding. 6010s burn around 30v and 7018s run around 23-24. Basically once the voltage goes above about 26-27v the arc cuts out. Some will run 6011 because they operate at around 26volts. I will have to try tig welding with that little guy soon 😀

[@bryanjones14]

@@makingmistakeswithgreg I bought one just to take to work to show these kids you don't need a , Miller maxstar to tig sch 10 stainless ... now it don't have all the fancy setting and no pulse or HF . But it runs and weld great with 3/32 tungsten

[@M70ACARRY]

​The Arccaptian machines handle 6010 superbly. They have VRD circuitry.

[@jeffgenchi5863]

I have a Miller 220 multimedia AC/DC and they say it is not rated for 6010. But I am more of a mig and tig guy anyways.

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

The miller 220 may run 6010, but if it does it will be barely. When designing a multi purpose welder the hard part is building a power supply that can handle the high voltage 6010 needs. MiG, tig, and stick all operate less than 26volts. 6010 needs 28-32 volts to operate properly. Without going in too much detail, it’s difficult (costs a lot) to produce a power supply that can output 30+ volts on a inverter but still function properly as a MiG welder that operates as fixed voltage. Miller decided to favor MiG and tig performance over stick, and designed most of their welders to not have enough voltage for 6010. Esab designed their all in ones to be able to run 6010, but unfortunately it came at a cost of the tig performance. The miller 220 is a far better tig welder than the esab 205. Esab 205 is a far better stick welder than the miller 220.

[@jeffgenchi5863]

@@makingmistakeswithgreg I appreciate your input. In reality I am a tig guy and I will take that all day long. Lol. Besides if I need to stick weld a good old 7018 did what I need anyways.

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

Yeah for tig you have the best all in one. I owned the 205 esab and the everlast lightening 275. I also used the miller 220 a bunch (friend has one). The Esabs tig sucked (it would ramp up/down in amperage in steps/clicks) it was the least smooth tig arc I have ever used. Excellent stick/MiG welder though. The everlast was just a pain to use (poor software, annoying process switching, bad fit and finish). Miller knows what they are doing with their machine so they spent the most on designing it to be excellent at tig and to be able to switch processes in a easy/smart way. For a light shop/home hobby welder I would buy the 220 all day because of how easy it is to switch between processes.

[@jeffgenchi5863]

@@makingmistakeswithgreg I do love how clean the arc is with mig and Tig on the 220. For 99% of my work it is perfect

[@scottdeeslcutusa8117]

Thanks for this i have a vevor MMA-200 super small. I am using these videos to learn.. I know how to do the farmer weld...

[@jadeolin8514]

Well this makes me a little sad honestly.. I just bought a yeswelder 205p to learn to tig weld. I would have loved to buy a better machine but I just dont have the funds and wont for a while (I plan on upgrading to a Primeweld 225x when im able to afford it). I was really hoping to be able to learn to stick weld with the yeswelder but just learned trying it out today it wont run 6011's or even 7018's, tried literally for a couple hours. It burns a 6013 like butter but man I really wanted to learn 6011/7018 aswell, now I know why, bit of a bummer..

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

It is possible it will weld with 7018, are you sure you weren't just having a rough time starting them? Make sure you're welding with them with the stinger on the positive terminal. 7018 is a rough rod to start and can make it seem like a welder wont work with it. 6013 is easier to start and will weld on any welder pretty much. Dont be too discouraged though, focus on running the most perfect consistent 6013 beads, because the better you are with that rod the better you will be with 7018. You can also probably run 7014 rods too, which run kind of like a 6013-7018 hybrid. 6010 is definitely a no go, and 6011 may run if you hold a super tight arc. One of my pet peeves with yes welder is they lie about their specs, They will say it will run with 6010 but it wont. They actually have some ok welders that can really help someone out who wants to learn, but lying about what it will do is just flat out wrong. The good news is you can still learn plenty on that machine, and anything you can learn will just make you better with a better machine :).

[@jadeolin8514]

@@makingmistakeswithgreg I actually tried running the 7018's on both dcen and dcep with mostly the same results. It would just stick constantly and maybe 2-3 times striking a 2 second arc before sticking. I'm using 3/32 HF Vulcan rods which is possibly making harder. I will pick up some esab or Hobart brand 7018's to try out, people seem to say they run easier than most. Would you have a brand recommendation? The 6011's would run somewhat but with the results you outlined in another video with the arc just going out after a very short run. I understand the reason being voltage under load being to low to make those rods run properly. I will try and find some 7014 to try out as well. Thank you for the suggestions and information, it is greatly appreciated.

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

Your description of 6011 definitely says to me it won’t run it. I had a Lincoln tig 200 that really poorly ran 6011, and even that couldn’t keep 6011 lit (6010 was hopeless). I do find harbor freight 7018 to be a bit sticky, however many of their 7018 rods have a graphite tip to help. I personally run esab 7018 prime in 4lb packs, they work great. You may be able to run 7018AC rods, they have slightly lower arc voltage requirements. 7018 is a great rod to use. I have been filming weld failure testing videos lately and (without spoiling it) 7018 is proven to be exceptionally strong. If you can’t run it you will be at a slight disadvantage but you will be able to learn to become a good stick welder without it. Focus on making the most consistent, straight, properly wetted out welds with whatever rod you can run. It will pay dividends in the long run.

[@jadeolin8514]

@@makingmistakeswithgreg after your reply I went out and bought a pack of esab prime 7018 and man what a difference compared to the harbor freight.. it's still not an easy rod for me to run and sticks quite a bit, but occasionally I am able to hold steady enough to burn almost an entire rod down. Also though I bought my little yeswelder to mainly learn TIG on I am having so much fun learning stick I have decided to send it back for a refund, pay a little more and buy an Everlast with 6010 capabilities and I'm sure better 7018 running capabilities. It has a few less functions for tig compared to the yeswelder but I'm betting a miles better machine overall. I believe I am going with the powerarc 161sth, are you familiar with that model? There is an updated model in the 200 amp range which I would prefer for the higher amperage but it does not offer HF start for tig, and I really want that function. In your opinion would I be shorting myself by not getting the machine with higher amperage? I still plan on buying a much better tig machine in due time and the Everlast will be my main stick welder afterwards. Many thanks for your time and thoughts. (Edit)- I also purchased a box of 7014 per your recommendation and they run wonderfully. They have become my favorite rod to burn currently. Thanks again.

[@GustavoCastillaEtherDreams]

Wanted to say thanks for the video, just got one of them $100.00 eweldet to try to learn and your presentation helped lots, may I will get a better one down the rod, get it Any how what may be an ok one to get I have a smallllll budget so need to start putting my pennies away. Than you

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

No problem. Here is the truth: any welding machine that atleast welds, combined with money spent on consumables and practice, will make a person a far better welder than a more expensive unit with no practice. Don’t be discouraged with the equipment you have to work with. Make the best with what you have and upgrade when you can/as needed. The most important thing is to not give up and practice. Great things will come to you if you stick with it 😀

[@maxmorter503]

Yeswelder has similar adapter as does my ssimder i just ordered

[@user-vm6mv8il6s]

mine is 50 volt no load and 20 under load , is cheap one ..

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

Yeah, if it can’t maintain decent voltage under a load stick rod options will be limited.

[@bojack2740]

Good explanation.. I have a deko and have problem running the 6010s 1/8". Now I know why. Can you explain "open circuit voltage"?

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

So open circuit voltage is what the voltage is when the welder is powered up and you’re not welding. Many stick welders have 60-80 volts present at the electrode holder anytime the welder is turned on. Some welders only have 25 or 30 volts open circuit. This can be checked by using a voltage tester (set/wired for voltage) between the stinger and ground clamp The voltage can’t go over the open circuit voltage while welding. Well if your open circuit voltage is 30 volts you know it won’t run 6010 and will barely weld with 6011 because they run at 28-32 volts while welding. Basically the arc will cut out from the lack of voltage to maintain the arc. Now closed circuit voltage (voltage while Welding) is much lower than open circuit. That voltage is whatever it takes to maintain a arc. This is important because many welders can’t maintain a 30-33 volts closed circuit that’s needed to maintain the arc on 6010 while welding. There are many reasons for this and unfortunately none of them are really fixable (they are all due to the design of how the welder produces output power from the input power).

[@bojack2740]

@@makingmistakeswithgreg thanks man for the explanation

[@jimmywilson1388]

I don’t really know much about stick welding. I might buy a stick welder someday though. What rod runs the best all around? Like the one you can do the most with… Thanks for the videos.

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

No problem 😀. So I pretty much use just 6010 and 7018 for everything. If it’s it poor shape or I need to fill a gap 6010. If I need a nice smooth weld or strength 7018 is where it’s at. 6013 is a fine rod to start to learn stick, because it’s cheap and is very forgiving to start the rod. Other than showing guys how to use it I never use it for projects. It is perfectly capable of building a ton of stuff though. It’s really good for thin material because it’s arc is a bit less aggressive than most rods, and you can spot weld all day with it.

[@jimmywilson1388]

@@makingmistakeswithgreg Thanks for the info!

[@luciusirving5926]

A good welder should have several transformers wired in series for maximum penetration. A good welder doesn't need to be expensive.

[@elgkas9928]

Great video Greg. If you were starting out learning stick, would you recommend a used transformer based machine or the newer inverter based machines? Does duty cycle come into play with either style machine?

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

Great question on that. So duty cycle does play a role. I will be shooting a video regarding that soon but I will give some ideas now. Most modern stick welders are inverters. Inverters main draw backs is more complicated parts, typically lower open circuit voltage (harder to strike arcs) and lower closed circuit voltage (difficultly running rods like 6010). Their benefits are much lighter weight, much more efficient (you can actually produce 120 amps output on a 20amp 110 breaker vs about 75-90 on a old transformer), and much smaller physical size. Modern inverters (good ones) also have much more accurate outputs. Simple transformer machines work on a simple transformer winding ratio for output. This design has no ability to adjust the ouput to compensate for changes in output due to the internal resistances changing (due to wire/circuits heating up). Basically as you weld and the transformer machine heats up it looses output amperage, which you yourself have to adjust by increasing machines amperage. To learn stick I personally would start on a D/C output machine that can run 6010 and has decent open circuit voltage to make arc strikes easier. I am a big fan of the esab rogue 130 and 180, miller maxstar 161s, and even harbor freights little titanium 225 stick welder for sub 300 with coupon.

[@OldGuy70s]

Haa Sry, but i laughed when i looked uP & saw tht cRookeD/Strait Bead u Ran......

[@Sherlock_Ohms]

Hi, Greg. I was wondering if you had any experience with the HTP Inverarc series? It is priced between the Titanium and the ESAB. No hotstart, but if does have power factor correction which would greatly reduce the amperage drawn from the mains. I was going to pull the trigger on either the Titanium or the HTP soon. Just wanted your thoughts. Thanks!

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

HTP has great welders. They are basically the USA distributor of “STEL” brand welders. I have not used the 160 stick welder but it seems to be a good setup. The only thing I would wonder about is if it runs 6010 or not. Even if you don’t use 6010, welders that can run 6010 generally run 6011 better. I am a big fan of the super small portable stick welders, they are my favorite welders. The fact that one has PFC means it can actually get decent output out of 120v. Without it you can generally only get 60-70a of stick output, which isn’t very good.

[@Liazon098]

The size comparison to the tig pedal is wacky !

[@jooseppib1082]

Ive seen old timers hook a stinger and ground up to a 12v battery And weld with that in a pinch

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

That does work, I will be making a video on this soon to give it a shot lol

[@jooseppib1082]

@@makingmistakeswithgreg Nice. The same guy also had a habit of jump starting trucks and buses with his mobile welding rig. Not with jump leads but with the welder,,😄

[@laserbeam002]

So did the little machine under promise and over deliver?

[@billsmith5166]

Great video. I've got an off topic question that I understand if you don't want to answer here, but I'll ask anyway. How much does bigger gauge cable affect the quality of the welds? I had a thicker ground cable on a more expensive welder and swapped it to a less expensive mig that I have dedicated to flux because it was four feet longer than what came with it and it seemed to make a pretty big difference. Do you have any similar experience or was it just in my head? Once again I understand if you don't answer, and you may already have covered it somewhere but I haven't had a chance to see all your videos yet. Thanks for doing these. They're absolutely the best welding videos that I've found.

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

I haven't exactly covered this but I do have some thoughts. If you run a welding cable thats too small for the current it carries it will have higher resistance/get hot. This can cause interesting things to happen, one of which is depending on how the welder manages its output the higher resistance wire may reduce the welders output (both voltage and amperage). Gas shielding mig operates on electrons flowing from the positive cable through the weld metal, to the wire (DCEP). If your "ground" clamp or wire was undersized its entirely possible you were losing (at a minimum) some voltage through it. Your machine may have been at 18v but the welding wire only saw 17.2. Its very common on cheaper machines to have CCA (copper clad aluminum wiring) which would certainly have more voltage loss at decent amperage than solid copper. Most Mig guns/whips have better wiring in them than the ground cables, because the guns will have ratings of say 150a/180a/200a, etc. So again its entirely possible that the "ground wire" was a weak link. You probably werent "seeing things", and I bet if you tested the ground wire for voltage and clamp metered for amperage with both the cheap and better one, you would likely find differences in actual outputs. I know I have metered my firepower FP200 and I have seen a difference of .2v from where the gun attaches tot he machine and the contact tip when the gun/whip was run hot for a while. Basically the power wire feeding the gun was 20.2 and the voltage at the tip was 20, so that is actual voltage loss. If the wiring was of poor quality it could be a loss of 1-2 volts. Hope that helps 😀

[@billsmith5166]

@@makingmistakeswithgreg Thanks! It's interesting to know that the guns have better wire. I'd have thought exactly the opposite. I'm planning on watching a couple more of your videos today. It's becoming more and more apparent to me that there are several KZbin channels that provide more information than a college course does. Yours is one. Thanks for the great content.

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

@@billsmith5166 you’re welcome and thanks for the kind words. Having been through college for both welding and my unrelated degree, I agree with what you said. My welding experience in college was a lot of “sit in the booth and weld”. That’s fine, but I wouldn’t know much if I didn’t do a ton of reading outside of the classes. As far as MiG guns go, a lot of them are somewhat generic, and rated for specific amperage’s. Any cheap welder company can throw a improperly sized ground cable on a machine they made in house, and sell the welder. Very few cheap welder companies (or companies in general) make their own MiG guns. Because of that they can’t cheapen things beyond a certain point, because they buy what’s available to them. When you start talking 220-250 amp MiG machines that are cheaper, they often have big 300+ amp guns because they know a 180amp gun won’t last and the cost to get a 240amp rated gun would be more than a off the shelf 300. Obviously higher end machines typically have better stuff across the board.

[@yurimodin7333]

speaking of 6010 vs 6011 and maybe this is more of a question for the engineers. Since they are similar why is all the code work listed for 6010 but not 6011???? is there some chemical in the flux that makes it bad for pipelines & bridges vs 6010?

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

So without looking up 6011 I have a feeling some of it has to do with 6010 being able to run downhill, I am unsure if 6011 is rated for that. There are also likely differences in ductility and other test results. Also, 6011 is not available in 7011 or 8011 to my knowledge. Stay tuned for my stick rod shootout released in a day. The difference between 6010 and 6011 was much different than I expected 😮

[@peetky8645]

pipeline and structural codes are different. pipelines are open root welds with an xx10 root of some kind and then xx18 or xxx18 out. structural bridge type work is xx or xxx18 all the way with a closed root backer bar usually. the carbon from the cellulose in an xx10 rod reduces the ductility of -18 placed above them and resulted in earthquake failures in the 70's with many buildings and bridges collapsing. new seismic codes do nat allow -10 rods.

[@MrRightNow]

With E7018 were you using 220V or 110V on the cheap welder? Would 110V be able to handle E7018?

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

On 110 (dedicated 20 amp circuit) that particular welder can output 90 amps, which is enough to run a 3/32 7018 on 1/4in and thinner material. The welder can actually output more than 90 amps on 110 however it will likely trip a breaker. The general rule is 90 amps is the max output on 110 to be able to weld with and not trip a breaker, regardless of welder. During the actual welding I am pretty sure I had it hooked to a 220 circuit 👍

[@MrRightNow]

@@makingmistakeswithgreg thank you, i tried running 7018 1/8" on 110V cheap welder on a 20 amp circuit and couldn't quite start an arc, even at a higher amperage, it kept sticking.. i had no problem using the smaller rods that came with the welder though (don't know the actual spec on these rods). Not sure if my technique is wrong or if i need a different welder

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

@@MrRightNow The sticky starts has more to do with the machine than you. If you were to try to start a 7018 on the little red welder I have (hone) vs the dynasty I normally use for stick, the dynasty is way better at starting the rods. 7018s are like a 6013 on it. 7018s are way more sticky on the cheap welder. To get around this welders that have a “hot start” feature make starting the rods much easier. The esab rogue 130 and 180 both start rods very easy and have adjustable hot start. You can buy they used for 350-550 around here, they are a huge upgrade over a cheaper stick welder. Even the harbor freight titanium 225 starts rods really easy. Honestly once you use a stick machine with hot start and arc force control you’ll never go back lol. Edit: also keep in mind smaller welders on 110 will have a hard time starting bigger rods because their voltage output at higher amperage is limited. A 1/8th 7018 needs 120-130 amps to run, on 110 that will be tough to produce which will cause harder starts. When you strike the arc there is a momentary high voltage/high amperage draw. If the welder can’t handle the spike in output the rod will stick due to lack of heat. Stick welding operates in the “globular” mode of metal transfer and it needs enough power to start or it operates in the “direct short” aka rod stick mode of transfer lol. On 110 3/32 rods will work better.

[@dennisyoung4631]

@@makingmistakeswithgreg”…way better at starting the rods…” That’s a big reason to get hot-start and arc-force, especially if you’re disabled such that you have a low frustration tolerance.

[@maxmorter503]

Run both on 120 vs 240 for fun

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

The dynasty will run on 120 really well. It will output around 130a on 120, with no breaker trips 😀

[@michaelhallas6450]

Whats the lowest amp you can go down on steel ?

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

The red machine will run down to 10 amps (according to the display) and the blue miller will run down to 1amp on tig and probably 5-10 amps on stick. The lowest amperage stick rods generally still run at 30 amps 😀

[@OldGuy70s]

Ahhh, i think I'd Take the oNe on the LefT......... Haa

[@wurlabyscott]

Can you run two $99 dollar welder in parallel or series?

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

Haha well hooking it welder 1 + to welder 2 - and then taking the open +/- connectors for the ground clamp and stinger wouldn’t likely work. However running them both in parallel would probably work but you would run the risk of melting the internal wires of one of them if one of the two lost a ground connection lol.

[@luciusirving5926]

There is a welding forum post regarding this and the people that responded preferred connecting welders in parallel. If you got the power, then connect two AC buzz boxes in parallel.

[@Latino47Heat]

Lots of rich kids want to be welders, who in their right mind would buy a 12 thousand dollar welder to make content? Crazy world.

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

Not sure what you’re implying. It’s a 6k dollar welder, not 12, and I have the skill (and the paid jobs) that require it. The point of the video is that you don’t need an expensive welder to stick weld. I think you’re confused about a lot of things here.

[@richardmartini9784]

😂please show the backside of the metalm afterthe. Weld🎉🎉 more ofter,...please