Viewer request: 7016 welding rods

[@mikefoster3547]

Many years ago while working in Brooklyn, N.Y. I used to get 20 lb. tins of Lincoln 7016 rods from the welding supply with no problems. The supply store is still there and they have a large variety of stock. I liked how smooth these rods run and the ease of restart. I used them on all sorts of truck and equipment repairs with no problems.

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Considering how well they seem to perform in my short testing, I definitely think they would work for a ton of jobs. The easier restarts could come in handy too.

[@melgross]

Which welding supply? I’ve used TW Smith for welding and nitrogen for my lab since 1983, though we sold the lab back in 2004. I still use them for welding supplies and gas.

[@markbroad119]

Hmm, I usually use 7014. It re-strikes so much more easily than 7018. Never tried 7016

[@deepdimdip]

Oh, you finally got some 7016 rods, cool. The slag from these rods looks these are probably some advanced flux composition rods similar to Bohler FOX EV PIPE rods or alike, these rods are marked as 7016(-1), but they run as something halfway between 7016 and 7018. Pure 7016 rods produce glass-like semi-transparent brownish/black glossy slag, at first it can be clear transparent so you can even see the weld through the slag until it gathers all contaminants. What you really need to see the difference to 7018 better is 7015 rods (ESAB definitely makes them), these are the same in terms of strength, but they are crisp as hell.

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

Great tip and thoughts. I have 7015 on my list of rods to get. I should have some before the end of the year to test 😀

[@kfmutrus]

Glad that 7016 did not disappoint you. Thank you for all those efforts to make this video, cheers! 😀

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

Yep, 7016 is good in my book 😀

[@kfmutrus]

@@makingmistakeswithgreg Oops, I forgot to ask about cut&etch, maybe it will be possible to do it sometime in the future?

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

Yep, I will cut and etch it next time I am at the shop. I got hit with a wicked cold so I am a bit behind. You will see in within a couple weeks for sure 😀

[@kfmutrus]

@@makingmistakeswithgreg Ouch, please take good care of yourself! I heard that new COVID variants could bump you off the tracks for weeks easily, it better be old-fashioned flu or something 😃 Many thanks in advance!

[@sebastianleicht]

I use 7016 for root to cap on S235 and especially on S355 steel, if strength is required, open root with electrode on negative. A wirewheel on the angle grinder is mandatory to remove the smoke. As always: great video!

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

Nice. Does yours produce similar slag? I have had a few people mention some 7016s produce a brown slag with a different appearance than the 7016s I ran.

[@sebastianleicht]

Upperside of the slag is greyish-black, lower side glassy-black. Chips off quite good, but the smoke from the (cellulosic? or/and Titania?) componenet I believe, is a pain finishing out for paint without wirewheel. I use oerlikon spezial" because a lot cheaper than the "boehler special D" here. 😂

[@sebastianleicht]

Ah, and I forgot: when searching for this particular elektrodes on european Market, they are always (mostly) called "spezial" the name "7016" is not too common here. And "oerlikon" is a daughter of "Lincoln Electric" now, baybe this helps with importing/buyin in the States.

[@veejaybomjay8145]

Hi Greg, I am impressed by the strength of the smallish weld deposited using 7016. Well done.

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

It definitely is what I had hoped it would be. Once it gets a bit colder out I am going to be chilling down some test welds and breaking them to see if it has good cold weather performance. 7018 is well known to perform well below zero, it will be interesting to see how well 7016 does.

[@darrellmellott6096]

Interesting, I've never seen 7016 and I welded professionally in Canada for 15 years (then welding inspection for another 30). The last digit in an electrode designation indicates the flux type and for austenitic stainless steel electrodes you do encounter (example) E308L-15 or 16 types. Without googling it, my recollection is one is recommended for DC electrode positive and the other is for DC or AC (I don't recall which is which though). I can't remember ever running a stainless rod on AC, so didn't really care if it was 15 or 16 anyway. Thanks for the video, you can always learn something even if you've been involved in the trade for 50 years (I started apprenticing in 1974 when I was 19). One quick question though and I apologize if it has already been answered in another video. When I was learning to weld a joint like the one you use for testing and didn't use run off tabs, I was taught to run to the end and then come back about a 1/2 inch or so to fill the crater. Are you leaving the crater on purpose? Not critiquing your work, just curious.

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

The 7016 seems to be mostly used in Australia and a few other countries. I do believe it is possible to use it on a root pass for open root on pipe. Which is pretty interesting since it’s classified as a low hydrogen rod, which many pipe welding rods (6010-7010-etc) are not. I have never seen 7016 ever sitting on shelves yet they are available through local welding distributors. As far as the testing goes, I generally just run a straight stringer weld and slightly pause at the end. I do that with all of the welds to try to be as consistent as possible. Universally the welds have colder starts, and hot ends, and are representative of average welds. Shockingly enough the end of the weld being overly hot has not proven to be a failure point on bend tests of 3/8th steel. 7018, er70 mig, and other higher strength fillers are more than strong enough to survive 3/8th steel bending at 90 degrees. With thicker steel the forces could force a failure, but my shop press doesn’t have enough balls to bend it lol.

[@briansmart2045]

Bundaberg ginger beer is apparently made in Bundaberg ( a good climate for growing ginger ) Queensland a State of Australia it is very good and at Christmas time they do a spiced one ( cinnamon and cloves ) here in Australia which is very nice . Surprised to see it in America . Thank you for the informative videos which I have just found . Brian

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

I have never seen the spiced one here, only normal and diet. It’s good stuff 😀

[@kylepenman9802]

Firstly, Im loving your content! Keep the great work coming! 🤙 This one definitely caught my attention though for two reasons. Firstly, 7016 has to be my favourite rod nowadays. But also since you got these from Hampdon! I'm in Perth, western Australia. They're about a 20 minute drive from me and I go there quite often. In fact, I went there today for 7018's. Great bunch of guys and always my first choice! Small world! I look forward to seeing more content! Keep up the great work!

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

Thanks for the kind words and for checking in from Australia 😀. Those 7016 rods run real good, I wish they were more common here. It’s crazy how the whole world is tied together despite large distances and oceans 😀. If you haven’t seen my giveaway video, I am giving away KZbin certified welder stickers for free. Here is the video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/pX3ZdoZ8i6d0r5Isi=tG9YLQ0EsHqIg2GA feel free to request one if you want. In the meantime time keep welding 😀👍

[@mkearn724]

Nice content Greg!! I always enjoy learning new info, and this video was all new for me. I’ve never really heard too much about 7016, but I can see where it would have a good purpose

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

Thanks. It’s a far better option to me than 7014. It mostly solves the hard to start issue and the puddle is really easy to see. It definitely is more prone to underfill compared to 7018, but even that isn’t bad.

[@pkplexing]

Probably already mentioned but there is a dual flux version of this rod, which produces a very dark glassy slag. Kobe LB-52U, ESAB Ok53.16 Spezial, And other brands labeled with 16TC.. these rods were made for root passes on pipe AFAIK, but their flux makes them outrageously versatile. A 3/32 rod can run at around 25-30 amps is able to fill up large gaps and roots by casually oozing toothpaste like molten metal in to the right spot... its a very awesome rod.

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

I will find some of those to test 😀

[@ypaulbrown]

Greg, thanks for doing this video.....they had a few hundred pounds of 7016 at the community college I went to in 2000...the clown head of program scrapped all of it instead of offering to students....since he was switching to 7018 in the program..... all one to the scrap yard....he was a real jerk ..... cheers, Paul

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

That’s a sad situation. Without a doubt they would have served a better purpose to be given away than thrown out :(

[@jasoncousins1343]

I really like your in depth explanation on ur videos alot of people skip this important information

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

Thanks, I appreciate it. I try to include as much info that’s relevant and explain it in a way that’s clear. I won’t lie, some times it’s pretty hard because of how complicated certain things are. I am just glad to be able to share some ideas to help people out 😀

[@bruced1429]

I have about 4 lbs 7016 rods, they run fine, but leave a grassy brown slag which is hard to get off. 7016 is avalable in Canada and I believe Bohler of Texas makes them and are used for some pipe work.

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

Yeah these definitely had a flux close to 7018. The weld puddle looked identical to a 7018 (maybe even more defined) but it definitely deposits less metal. They smelled different and didn’t have the glass ball on the end of the rod so they are definitely different than any 7018 I have ran.

[@JonDingle]

We can get 7016 here in the UK no problem. Saying that, I haven't used any but will try a pack. I would never use 6013 on a root pass unless it was on thin parent metal because it is a low penetration rod. Interestingly, 6011 is hard to find here. 7016 will probably be easier to run uphill because of the fast freeze aspect? Going to try some. Interesting stuff as usual young man!

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

7016 definitely seems to be a solid rod. I will be trying it out on some uphill welds soon, but I have a feeling they will be slightly easier than 7018 to weld uphill. The fact they don’t build a glass ball on the end like 7018 really is helpful for restarts. For the few rods I have run I give it a thumbs up.

[@Kevin.L_]

I'd definitely try these if available. Thanks for testing.

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

No problem. If it’s a option it makes strong welds and definitely is easier to run than 7018. The only thing I am unsure over is how well is sub zero performance is, which is something many 7018s are tested for. I would definitely use 7016 over 6010/11/13 and 7014 for anything requiring strength.

[@marktrifa-schmidt756]

I live in Melbourne Australia. I use 7016 for welding stitch plats on concrete tilt panels in all positions. Great rod

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

I wish it was more common here in the states, I think the 7016 would be really popular. It definitely is strong and welds great.

[@oldmate8626]

We repair lots of heavy plate mining equipment here in Australia. These are a low hydrogen root pass rod, then capped with 7018. They should be baked. Hard to restart. The slag doesnt look glassy on those that u have unless thats the camera

[@bruced1429]

I should add that the 7016's I have are of unknown manufacture as I have had them for years and the box is long gone. The brown slag left by my rods is totally different than the ones you have from Austrailia, but the rest is the same. I only have 20 lbs 7018 now so I just might see about getting some more 7016, could be an all around rod for general work as it restarts better than 7018.

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

Yes, no doubt the restarts are far easier than 7018 and the weld strength is on par with it in my testing. Without question it’s stronger than 7014. I bet it runs out of position better as well, probably better than 7018 too. So far a bunch of people have mentioned the same difference in the slag. My choices for rods on eBay were pretty limited so I had to pick from what I could get.

[@deadsettom9054]

I use it for everything. I use it for a root pass when im hardfacing. Depending on the application, I dont even worry about applying the hardfacing because it wears so well to begin with. Can struggle on stiffer materials, cracks quite easily when cooling, easy enough to deal with when time permits, just have to throw a few stitches horizontally in between your passes.

[@SjoerdErik]

7016 is a pretty common rod here in The Netherlands. It's typically used in higher strength stuff and I just use it for pretty much everything as it's easier for me to get than 7018 and at a better price most of the time. I liked them ever since I learned to weld (never liked 6013 much) and I think you pretty much covered it. It's a nice rod to work with, for sure.

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

I am surprised it’s not offered at stores here, I think the average person would be far better off with it over 7018 without a doubt.

[@SjoerdErik]

@@makingmistakeswithgreg Yeah, I agree with that but you know, I can't figure out why 6013 is so popular (and overused - even when people really shouldn't) here. Probably some culture thing, you stick (no pun) with what you know and all that.

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

@@SjoerdErik. To me 6013 takes more skill to run on a fillet weld than 7018, it causes more weld defects (slag inclusions) has worse penetration, and is far weaker than 7016 and 7018. It’s good to learn on flat plate (easy arc starts) and sheet metal it’s good on. Beyond that i don’t see many practical applications.

[@SjoerdErik]

@@makingmistakeswithgreg I agree with that, mostly. I went to lower technical school here in the second half of the 1980's and they let us burn a bunch until we had starting and restarting as well as making a decent bead down " well enough" before moving on to the 70 series, which were a lot more fun to work with and that kinda stuck with me. That said, I taught the kid next door the basics last year, all of 13, and he had no trouble running 70 series. First time go. I think it's really what you're used to that sets the benchmark so, learning on 6013 may have been an "easier arc" issue with AC transformers, but nowadays, with plenty of very nice, very affordable inverters with hot start and air force and anti stick and all that goodness, I really don't see the point in learning with 6013. Not even to mention the entry level "good" inverters, those are just on a different level compared to what I, and I suppose you as well, learned on.

[@lapislignum]

Late to the party here but I'm in the country that makes bundy gingerbeer, we do drink it, they make so-so rum too. 6013 rods are easy to get here, a while back i was after 7018s but they are ebay only and more than i wanted to pay. I bought some 2.6mm (can't help with freedom units, but a bit under 7/64) 7016 rods today, welded something beautifully that i messed up with 5/64 6013 rods. I find 7016s very forgiving as i can just rest the electrode on the metal rather rhan having to hold a gap.

[@IanWalker-om3py]

Hey Greg…. Your ginger beer is indeed proudly made here in Queensland Australia!…we live just outside the town of Bundaberg and on the weekend my wife snapped a couple of pics of the outside of the brewery for you so if you have a email address I can send you pics of the actual brewery where your ginger beer is made 😊

[@squirrel6687]

Thanks for the introduction of the rod. LOL: Quick Ebay search in less than a minute here in the states yielded results including out of California. Not sure of ages. 7.7lbs cheap. 7016 doesn't have iron powder in the flux as 7018: minimum magnetic arc blow/deflection caused by distortion of the magnetic field produced by the electric arc current. Magnetically Susceptible Materials Some materials, such as 9%nickel steels, have very high magnetic permeability and are very easily magnetized by external magnetic fields, such as those from power lines, etc. These materials can be very difficult to weld due to the arc blow produced by the magnetic fields in the material. Such fields are easily detected and measured by inexpensive hand - held Gauss meters. Fields higher than 20 Gauss are usually enough to cause welding problems. Just a couple of searches/research.

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

When I searched everything I could find that could get it to me fast was Australia. That’s the thing with eBay, every day sellers and listings change, so I went with the fastest I could get. It wasn’t overly expensive, other than shipping lol. In the future when I am not under such a time crunch I will be able to get a far better deal lol. Interesting info on iron powder contributing towards arc blow. Makes sense to me. The benefit of that iron powder is obviously the deposition rates. On a root pass I prefer lower deposition rates and a smaller weld, it’s more controllable. 7016 seems to be really good for that. I will be doing further testing to see how well it fairs in penetration vs 7018.

[@burnettriverclean]

I I live in Bundaberg where the ginger beer is made. Bundaberg run is also made here and it's only 80k population. The ginger beer is nice I like it and those rods are easy access here.

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

That’s a pretty small population, the city I live in is 1.5 million in the larger “county”. They make my favorite ginger beer 😀. The 7016 rods are also good as well, you guys are on to something.

[@yevrahhipstar3902]

2.5mm Kobe LB-52 U for pipe roots. But they're also a great general purpose rod. No good for vertical down.

[@arthurmorgan8966]

Japanese Kobelco also supplies these, under name LB-52 (7016), there is also LB-52-18 which is 7018. You can find equivalent models in Kobelco's catalogue, prices are not bad. Some are made in Thailand.

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

Thanks for the info, I have seen those lb-52 when I was trying to find 7016 and passed them up.

[@scrapperstacker8629]

Great video. I do wish 7016 was more available. I have one question. If I have a machine that does not have “hot start feature”. How would I get around the cold start weak weld problem?

[@michaelwhiting878]

My machine does have a built in Hot Start, but it is not documented, and I had to use a Clamp-On amp meter with a Min-Max feature to discover it in fact was boosting the current set point by about 50% e.g. if I have 100 amps set on the welder, the clamp on amp meter Max showed it went to about 150 amps for a second before it settled back down to 100 amps I had dialed in. It is fast, so you need to have the ability to capture the Peak amps. An alternate method if you don’t have a DC amp meter, is to have someone video the welders display of running amps while you strike the arc. Please be sure the person doing the video has the appropriate PPE eyes and flying sparks. As a side note, I recently had to contact Tech Support for my welder, and I talked to a very knowledgeable tech who confirmed my machine in fact had Hot Start, and a Dig function, both of which were undocumented. So perhaps a call to a service person would help too. Greg, will be able to give you some great suggestions on how to get around the cold start issue. I know he has given me plenty of good suggestions on a wide variety of my welding questions. He is very good at helping others.

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

If you don’t have a hot start feature it can be difficult to solve the issue of weaker penetration. Many machines have some form built in like Michael said. If you don’t have adjustable hot start you will have to deal with slightly poorer penetration at the start of a weld. It’s more noticeable on the 3/8th steel, on 1/4 and under it will be less of a concern. To get around this issue in the real world, high liability type jobs, they have strips of metal called start strips/run off tabs. Basically you start your weld off of what you’re welding and end it off of it too. Doing such things eliminates issues associated with starts and stops because they are not left on the weldment but removed. Realistically as long as your bead is decent it wouldn’t be a huge issue to be honest.

[@scrapperstacker8629]

@@makingmistakeswithgreg thank you so much for the response.

[@ypaulbrown]

I am pretty sure, 7016 has no added iron powder like 7018..... that would explain the difference in metal deposition...... 7015 is another Low Hydrogen rod with no added iron powder...... one is an acid rod and the other a alkaline......I will have to look up the actual specs......cheers, PAUL...

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

I am going to try to get my hands on 7015 too. Without a doubt 7016 deposits less metal. I went a bit too fast in the first fillet weld and luckily realized I needed to slow down more than I was used to Inorder to avoid underfill. Once I slowed down it put a nice weld down, just a pinch smaller than 7018. I think a lot of people would like 7016 because of the easier restarts.

[@weldfox472]

Oh and we sometimes use it on pipe . Rootpass on electrode negative (depends on the fit but sometimes you need to push it in to get a good blend on the inside on the bottem part) .2nd pass to fill on positive . Sometimes only the 1st pas with 7016 and the rest with 7018 (because i think 7018 fills a bit more so it maybe is because of the productibility). Grt

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

Thanks for the info. It definitely seems to deposit less metal than a 7018. For a root pass the quantity of metal is far less important than having a defect free pass. To me (with the rod and a half I ran lol) it seems to solidify faster than 7018. Running 7018 on anything with a gap is not really ideal for me. I think the 7016s slightly less metal deposition and slightly faster puddle freeze would make it far more controllable.

[@weldfox472]

@@makingmistakeswithgreg it does have a bit of a stiffness to it if you compare it with a 7018 . It doesnt tend to droop down as much if you weld it out of position . But it is harder for me to run 7016 on an open root pipe than 6010 downhill . It is less forgiving need to keep close arc or else you get porosity , welds slower , needs longer feathering ramps on start and stops , need to grind the crater out when you stop except when you tie in at a stop , and fit up needs to be nearly a 100% spot on or else it is a struggle, and it welds like 3 inches max . A remote controle makes it very handable .grt

[@douglasthompson2740]

When I was growing up in the fifties and early sixties, even today we had Canada Dry Ginger Ale. Haven't noticed it for a while. Used to mix it with whiskey and drop a Marishino cherry in it. Is that the same as Ginger Beer?

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

So my understanding is they are different. Ginger beer is actually brewed and the alcohol is removed. Ginger ale is normally club soda mixed with ginger root, but It can be fermented (I just don’t know if a ginger ale that actually is fermented). From a taste perspective ginger beer tends to have more flavor, or atleast a stronger flavor. It also tends to be less carbonated.

[@luciusirving5926]

Must be a hybrid electrode. Definitely good enough for fixing cast iron.

[@bruced1429]

they won't do cast iron, maybe cast steel ,but I would not bet on it. try some and see. I only use cast 60 or cast 90 rods on cast iron , 60% nickel/90% nickel , depends on the cast type. alway check it out with the rod manufactor.

[@SouthernGround]

Airco pocket rod welding guide (1977) list E-7016 and E-7016M, M was "High impact" I saw E-6016 in the Navy in the 70's, don't remember much about it other than it was a rod that was in the inventory aboard ship in the supply crib. I looking it up online I noticed it's rod used in Asia, middle east and as you stated Australia. I could only guess what government regulations keep it out of the USA 😂😂, who knows. Interesting Rod though, going to ask an old pipeliner I know about it./bbbbvv

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

Thanks for sharing that info. So I looked into the 7016 vs 7018 testing specs and it has massively higher (double) the strength on low temp charpy v-notch testing over standard 7018. It has better elongation but slightly less tensile strength than 7018. Based on what I am seeing 7016, I bet it would take impact forces far better than 7018. I have a feeling 7018 is preferred due to slightly higher deposition rates and being slightly easier to avoid undercut. Honestly I like 7016, I will have to use it for a project or two 😀.

[@douglasthompson2740]

It would be interesting to see how it does out of position? I noticed in the test away from the face that same thing as the 7024, in that at that loud crack sound the pressure started dropping. I may be wrong, but I am assuming that when the force drops there has been a failure somewhere and the press is fighting less resistance as the force drops. Those numbers seem very reminiscent to the 7024 test. You just seem to keep hitting them out of the park with new and relevant subjects every few days! You are definitely my first choice in welding videos along with Jody. Always useful topics for the guy in the home shop. Nice job!!

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

So the crack you heard was the plate shifting. Due to how everything moves as it bends either the plate moves smoothly as it’s pressed or sometimes it jerks. This is due to the plate slightly digging in and just the nature of everything bending. To help with this I am going to make a AR500 plate to bend things on (it won’t be able to gouge into it) and make sure things are lubticated better. Thanks for the kind words too. I am just happy to be part of helping people out learning to build skills 😃.

[@douglasthompson2740]

Thanks. Good to know.

[@martinmikkelsen246]

i use 7016 rods in Denmark

[@quolls2]

Bundaberg ginger beer is the best, from the Queensland, east coast, Bundaberg Rum as well, is subtropical, sugarcane country 😀 welding with 7016 on Meski the steel mono hull boat now, in Two Rocks Western Australia 🇦🇺 😋

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

If I ever make it over to Australia I will definitely be checking out Bundaberg 😀.

[@garysheppard4028]

I've been to the factory in Bundy. They make stacks of flavours and although they're all good, I prefer their original ginger. The company that makes Bundy ginger beer isn't the same one that makes Bundy rum. Interesting that you have to order 7016 from Australia. Have to order 7014 and 7018 from the US.

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

We only have the original and the sugar free version here. I have been sharing them with friends and a bunch of them are drinking it now lol. So good 😀

[@garysheppard4028]

@@makingmistakeswithgreg I recall them saying they were trying to break into overseas markets. Especially the US. Good to see Oz exporting products other than rocks...

[@CarlosMorales-jd5hb]

3/32 7016 welding rods are perfect when one is limited to 75-80amps on 120v.

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

I bet they would run really good at that value, due to depositing slightly less metal than a 7018. I definitely like them so far 😀

[@fredo66able]

6013 for general purpose and 7016 for our low hydrogen rods in Australia only use other rods for special jobs,

[@FPSRepair]

Bro, you want 7016, I can send you Kobelco LB series all day long. Kobelco has eight types of 7016. You can find the Kobelco catalog PDF online. 6019 is also a fantastic rod we use here in Japan.

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

I have never heard of 6019, I will have to look that up. What’s it run like? I am kind of upset 7016 isn’t commonly available in the states. It runs good and is strong too. Definitely a solid option.

[@FPSRepair]

I like to say it's mid-way between 6010 and 6013. A pretty bead like 6013, but better penetration, the slag pool doesn't try to overrun rod, so you can see the actual weld pool. A little more violent. Doesn't have the dig that 6010 does, but way smoother and doesn't require a whip-and-pause. Awesome overhead rod. No hydrogen production and has excellent crack resistance. The Kobelco B17 rods I use are general structural rod for plate up to 20mm. 61,000psi yield and 68,000psi tensile, 26% elongation. It's possible for them to get "damp," but unlike must lo-hy rods, drying is only 70°C-100°C for 30 to 60 minutes. I'll send you some Kobelco B14 and B17 (both E6019) if you want to test. okinawaironworks on the google mail.

[@melgross]

Something interesting. John Cadogon and I hope I spelled his name correctly, says that in Australia they don’t use 7018, but use 6013 instead. I didn’t get that. He’s a noted auto expert, but has had a channel for a couple of years where he discusses, not only cars but welding, fabrication and engineering. Hadn’t heard of 7016.

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

6013 is very commonly used as a root pass rod in a lot of the world, they don’t use 6011 or 6010. The thing I didn’t know about (but have found out in the last year) is that there are completely different flux compositions to 6013 in other countries. So their 6013 runs different than what is common here. In many ways we do that with our 6010, having multiple versions of it with different arc characteristics.

[@yevrahhipstar3902]

Those rods are 18's. You can tell by the grey/brown matt slag. The 16 slag is dark brown/black and glossy.

[@brnmcc01]

I asked at my local welding supply shop here(IOC), 7016 is available from Lincoln Electric "Pipeliner", in either 10# cans or 50# boxes, minimum 3, the EZ open cans come in a box of 3 10# cans. Not terribly expensive, about like $6 a pound range. Let me know if you want some, we could go in on a box of 3 cans, and I could mail you one. The part # you want to search for is Lincoln ED033835 for 3/32" rods, they are also avail in other standard sizes like 1/8, and 5/64". The recommended usage according to Lincoln on the data sheet is root, fill and cap on up to X60 grade pipe, can be run uphill, and root pass on up to X100 grade pipe, says gives X-ray quality welds, and vertical up capability on up to X60 grade pipe. Conforms to E7016-1 H4, I guess because it comes in hermetically sealed metal can, sort of like a tall beer can.

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

Interesting that they have that, the local stores to me gave me the run around on it. I have never seen 7016 on a job site or on the shelf anywhere. They run well enough that I would likely use them in place of 7018 for some jobs. I actually bought a 20lb box of them for a future video. I will also use them to help some people out that want to learn 7018. It has a similar puddle but is far easier to start.

[@brnmcc01]

@@makingmistakeswithgreg I could get some, but like you said, the minimum order quantity is quite a bit, I've only used up maybe 1/2 of a 5# box of 7018 so far haha. So I have no idea what I would do with 2-3 cans of 7016.

[@brnmcc01]

@@makingmistakeswithgreg If you ever need a bigger generator, check out this beast I installed at a friends house a couple of years ago on my channel: watch?v=wW5qAJh3aUk It can run both kitchens, 3 A/C units and a 20x40' in ground heated and lighted swimming pool and about 100 exterior landscape lights all at once :)

[@odysseasgrey7364]

Hello Greg, many thanks for the great videos. Much appreciated. I would like to ask about dunking welds in water right after finish them. It looks wrong to me, but I saw a professional doing it and I wonder what it does to the quality and strenght of the weld. I asked him and he told me that the same with oil instead of water is what makes iron to steel. Don't know much, I would like to hear your opinion about that. Thanks again.

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

So I can give you a lot of my thoughts and opinions on that. Quenching welds will affect the solidifying grain structure of the weld, and will likely cause the weld to become brittle. When quenching in oil the effect is different than water. Oil doesn’t evaporate like water, and it’s a poorer conductor of heat than water, which means that hot metal dipped in oil will cool slower than water. When dealing with heat hardenable alloys (like knife steel) by quenching in oil you are able to increase its hardness to a level that is acceptable. Air cooling would result in softer, more flexible material, water would cause super hard material, oil is slow enough to bridge the gap between water and air. I will do a video on the effects of this in the near future. My opinion is quenching in water should only be done during practice to speed things up, but never on anything that needs strength. You are adding a unpredictable variable into something that doesn’t need any more of them lol.

[@thewordistruth9657]

I would like to see you run the press bend test on some of the failing rods again but after baking them at 400 degrees Fahrenheit for a day to see if any hydrogen gets cooked out of them. Will they still fail then? They would also be sort of tempered which could skew the idea of hydrogen being the reason they all failed but you could could take some that are not cooked for a day and simply heat them with a torch to a straw color a couple times quenching in-between to simulate the temper type of effect to sort of rule it out combined with the oven test.

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

So couple thoughts on that. Most non low hydrogen rods (like 6010/6011 especially) have a ton of moisture in the flux, and they are made that way. By baking many non low hydrogen rods out, their flux will disintegrate/fall off. There is actually a easier way to test this, which is keeping a 7018 submerged in water for a day or two, then wiping the water off it. I am doing just that for a video that should be out in a couple days. If hydrogen is the root cause of the failures a wet 7018 should fail. At this point it’s going to come down to either hydrogen is playing a role in the failures of 7014 and 7024 but 7016 and 7018 are fine, or it’s a issue of the weld strength. Interestingly enough the specifications of 7024 and 7014 aren’t that much different than 7018, so it’s hard to say why 7018 and 7016 have no issue handling more load than 7014/24. More testing will hopefully shed some light on this.

[@thewordistruth9657]

@@makingmistakeswithgreg I mean to bake the weldments after they are welded. Not baking the rods themselves. I can see I wasn't clear enough in my post.

[@sebastianleicht]

I'm just guessing but as I understand it, when banking the weldment, hydrogen has just done it's "job" and embrittlement has just happened. So banking the "bubbles" out would have no effect (since they would diffuser out anyways). Heatthreating is supposed to change the austhenite-martensite structure on steel that can be hardened - what mild steel isn't. Nevertheless it would be interresting if heatcyceling would effect the whole grainstructure but I doubt that 400°F would have an effect on that.

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

Baking the weldment won’t change anything after a weld is done. The hydrogen has already caused damage (if the material is susceptible) as it is driven out and away from the weld and into the heat affected zone/toes of the weld. On pipe in some cases they use a heat source (typically induction heater wrap) to keep the temps high enough at the start to lower the hydrogen per pass (aka no buildup between passes). Without it you could be 3-4 passes deep and having hydrogen out of the first 3-4 passes combine with the hydrogen in the weld pool you’re working on, which would be a serious problem for higher strength steel. It’s most important to keep the metal hot enough to prevent fast quenching of the molten pool than after weld heating. This is also far more practical on pipe than higher strength steel on say a tractor.

[@sebastianleicht]

​@@makingmistakeswithgreg thx

[@briansmart2045]

I was pipe fitting 20 years ago in Australia and root was sometimes 5P’s sometimes Tig ❓

[@weldfox472]

All the 7016 i have run until now (esab.lincoln.böhler.oerlikon.air liquide and others ) had all blackish glas slag . A bit like obsidian . But yours did not wich i find interesting and odd . I like the video . Put your amps a bit higher and have a less leading angle on this type of rod and you will have more penetration . And you can almost drag these rods against the plate and make it work for you . Try it . Grt

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

Thanks for the tips and you’re one of a few people to mention the same thing about the slag. There weren’t many to pick from on eBay so I went with what I could get lol. I like the rod a lot, it will make a reappearance in the future for sure.

[@91donwilson]

Nice! I just got 4.4 pounds of 7016 for $20 aud. Keen to try it out

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

Definitely seems to be a good rod. As long as you move slow and steady it lays down real nice. It’s strong too, definitely would be a top choice for me for anything requiring strength.

[@AWSmith1955]

I found the 7016 on the great Britain Lincoln electric site. Over there they come in cardboard boxes Carton box 15.9 KG (3 x 5.3 KG, approx. 375 pcs) for 1/8 inch. The description says they are "double coated" . Does that mean the flux composition and the iron? or is there a protective coating to keep them dry since its 90% rain over there. LOL

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

I have heard a bunch of people call them “twin coat” and they must be referring to the same rod. I did some research and found this mouthful on eBay: the inner coating, closest to the core wire, produces excellent arc striking characteristics with superior arc stability The outer coating contributes to the x-ray quality of the weld metal while also being designed for welding with the new inverter technology. So that’s a mouth full, and doesn’t say much. My guess is that the normal rod has an issue running on inverters that can’t produce high closed circuit voltage. By changing the flux composition they are able to achieve a rod that will operate at lower voltage but still has the weld strength. The whole thing about “x ray quality of the weld” is a marketing gimmick, virtually any rod could pass x ray. It might make it easier to avoid slag inclusions but that’s probably it lol.

[@alltoone]

In Europe the 7016 are manufactured and sold by many companies. Even ESAB manufactures and sales them. They are much easier to weld than the 7018 but they should be used only for root pass and not for capping a weld.

[@williamickes3143]

Thanks!

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

No problem 😀

[@kimhald5035]

Oerlikon spezial is a well known 7016 here in Denmark

[@mixpick138]

Awwww, for FFS, another rod?! I was just getting comfortable with the 7014 and 7024 while sticking the 7018 less and less --now this?! 🙂 Seriously though, you could do multiple vids on why some things are destined for the export markets but are unavailable in our domestic market even though we make 'em right here. Was it conflicting building standards, OSHA, EPA, some large 7018 lobbyist group, a conspiracy so dramatic it should be on the NY Times best sellers list, then turned into a feature length thriller in full IMAX image quality?! Sadly, we may never know...

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

Everything moves towards efficiency, or we’ll what I call “evolution”. Part of evolution is a million failed experiments. With welding rods far more rods have existed than what are common today. At some point it doesn’t make sense to have say 12 common rods to weld with for one type of material. In the USA to a certain extent it makes sense to have 6010, 6011,6013,7014,7018, and 7024 as common steel rods. 6010 it good at poor fitups and deep penetration for a first pass. 6011 works like a smooth 6010, and works great on thin to medium thickness materials with poor fitup. 6013 is a great sheet metal rod and produces a smooth bead. 7014 works great for sheet metal to maybe 3/16th, and produces a smooth bead with higher strength than 60 series rods. 7018 works great for anything requiring strength. 7024 is great for putting a lot of metal down with a wide and flat bead. The interesting thing is why those particular rods were chosen. 7018 vs 7016 could be a case of 7018 had better performance for a specific task (say a particular type of steel) or maybe it has better performance for lower temps, impact toughness, ability to handle vibratory stress, etc. Based on my very limited testing I like the way 7016 runs, and once I slowed down realizing it deposits less metal than 7018, it welds great. Many people have said the rod I have ran a bit different than many 7016s do, and that the slag is hard to remove on many 7016s. If that’s the case I can see why 7018 would be picked over 7016, more metal deposited plus faster cleanup between passes, equals more done in a specific time. From a standpoint of ease of welding I think America could benefit from 7016 because it’s easier to start/restart than 7018, and it’s clearly stronger than 7014. I personally use 7018 and 6010 for almost everything, (I dabble in 6011 for thinner steel with poor fitup and 7024 for flat welds or buildup jobs). Other countries often chose different rods and it was likely because of the particular steel or materials used and what rods met the testing requirements needed.

[@mixpick138]

@@makingmistakeswithgreg I think you should do the documentary on why 7016's aren't available/widely used in this country --Ken Burns would be proud! 🙂 Great thoughts and information as usual. Thanks!

[@mike-yp1uk]

I liked this video

[@rbelang8331]

Greg, do you see a clear distinction in the weld pool, distinct line where the slag end? Like 7018 and unlike 7014?

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

The 7016 looks just like a 7018, as soon as I lit up the rod and moved it’s the exact same visible eye shape. 7014 and 7024 don’t have that shape at all, it’s basically muddy. To me the only thing noticeably different is the normal 7018 travel speed will likely leave a pinch of under-fill, no doubt it deposits less metal. Once I slowed down it cleaned right up. I have a feeling it would be much more prone to undercut on vertical up, but I will have to test that to know for sure.

[@reganswan6727]

Bunderberg is a long time brewing company should try the rum.

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

Definitely will have to find some 😀

[@Cholton222]

❤

[@summerforever6736]

it is a special !! no problem!!!!!!!!!1

[@Boodieman72]

You can get a 50 pound can from Airgas at $270 a can.

[@douglasthompson2740]

That makes it a twofer! What the heck is Ginger Beer? and I will watch and see what the heck 7016 is and what it is good for!!

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

Ginger beer is made from fermented ginger and sugar, but they remove the alcohol. It’s similar to ginger ale but less syrupy and stronger flavor. Ginger ale is commonly carbonated water/white soda with ginger root syrup added. I believe real ginger ale exists (fermented beverage) but it’s not the stuff most places carry 😀

[@LoBeau53]

Ginger beer is what you mix with rum or bourbon to make a dark and stormy

[@chrisholifield8571]

Some gas companies are requiring them for certain applications lately

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

Interesting. I like the way the rod runs, and it must run better than 7018 running open root. I wouldn’t be surprised if it becomes more prevalent.

[@Cholton222]

Ive hurd 7016 lb52u kobelco rods r pretty good.

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

Those were what I tried to find first. I will have to try to find some still 👍

[@yeahnahcobba]

smooth arc products are made by a company called "BOC"

[@normesmonde5332]

Greg check out Bundaberg Rum 🇦🇺

[@robertyoung4523]

Best 7016 rods are phillips 56s.

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

I picked up a couple more to try, didn’t see that brand. I will look for them next time. I definitely like the 7016 rods.

[@robertyoung4523]

Root on negative.

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

I have heard guys do that, I will have to give that a shot.

[@jasoncousins1343]

There starting to use these rods in the states phasing out cellulose rods 7016 open root fill and cap 7018 pipe it's being used quite a bit now

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

Interesting to know. Considering how 7016 ran for me, I bet it would run an open root far better than 7018 would. It gives low hydrogen spec, more metal deposition, and a few other benefits over 6010.

[@jasoncousins1343]

There Starting to use this for open roots instead of cellulose rodes because it's low hydrogen because there Starting to notice that pressure lines that use cellulose rods for root pass and 7018 fill and cap whats happening is hydrogen cracks are forming from the root out to the cap cellulose rods are full of hydrogen in fact u put those in a oven it absolutely ruins them so there using 7016 for roots its alot harder and slower from what I've heard

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

Thanks for the thoughts and that makes sense. I know it’s common here to use inductance heating to keep the pipe hot enough to push the hydrogen out of the weld zone where it can cause issues. Having tested 6010 myself the amount of visible hydrogen escaping the weld is on par with a 7018 that was literally soaking in water for a day. Seems like a variable that if you could just eliminate it from being present rather trying to add additional measures like heat to get it to escape, it would be far smarter. 5/32 and bigger 6010s can definitely move fast with high deposition. Obviously speed becomes less of a benefit if it’s not lasting lol.

[@LoBeau53]

That was my understanding. I am Canadian and we never see 7016, but I thought it was the go to for open root in the US pipeline industry.