QFTB #11 Rod ovens and 7018 rods

[@garthland]

you are on the ball with your videos! I've showed up 'bareback' a few times with no welder or rod,just there to weld it and been handed rusty rods-farmers. This video reminds me that the thermostat went to hell in my little oven and almost burned my shop down-I need to get that back online-it was 'borrowed' off the railroad from an old guy friend of mine

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

The rusty rod special can be a fun one to deal with lol. Every used welder I have bought comes with some rusty rods, and rarely do they ever weld right 😅

[@dennisyoung4631]

@@garthland makes for thinking, “maybe I should bring an Esab “toaster” and a “tube” or three of rods…” (?)

[@yurimodin7333]

@@makingmistakeswithgreg isnt iron oxide part of some fluxes? 😆

[@theseldomseenkid6251]

A similar issue exists with moisture in 3D printing using nylon and other hygroscopic filaments. Excellent presentation especially explaining how baking is required to pull moisture and the limits of desicant. Thanks.

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

Interesting that moisture can affect 3d printing as well. A lot of times it’s hard to understand how even fairly high temps are not enough to remove moisture from rods, but when you look at it from pesky hydrogen atoms not wanting to leave without significant “help” (aka heat) and not just liquid water existing in them, it all makes sense.

[@rakentrail]

Greg, when I was at the shipyard we were only allowed to have rods out for 6 hours max. (8018 & 11018) I always went only 4 hours. (swapped on my lunch break) All returned rods were baked for like 8 hrs. at 450F. Then transferred to 250F storage ovens. We also had strict interpass and preheat rules which failure to follow could get you fired. When building a boat that goes 100's of feet below the surface a whole lot of lives depend on you doing it right! If you're burning enough wire to need an oven, buy an oven. I bought one used 40 years ago and it still works fine.

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

100%. When getting into 8018 or higher the requirements become even more strict because you are without question welding on material that hydrogen embrittlement can and will happen with. There is nothing wrong with returning rods to an oven sooner than a manufacture or code allows for, if anything it’s the smart thing to do. From a practical point people would be much less likely to forget to return them. On a 8 hour shift halfway you return them and on a 12 hour shift you will always return the rods at a point less than 8 hours. Not to mention modern rods are often speced at 8 or even 12 hour moisture resistance, that wasn’t always the case. Most places don’t care that manufactures say it can go longer, they keep everything the same because why change something that works.

[@brnmcc01]

Right, critical stuff like that in a production environment one will always need to follow the Welding Procedure Specifications. Failure to follow the WPS, and/or failing X-ray tends to get one either early retirement or unemployment, lol.

[@rakentrail]

@@brnmcc01 Most of the time security would perp walk them out to the front gate right in front of God and everybody! It sent a clear message to the rest of the crews. FAFO I think they call it now! LOL!

[@michaelbigelow367]

A reminder to seal my rods. Thx Greg!

[@RichardBolger-c5b]

I subscribed, even though it’s highly doubtful the information in this video will ever be something I need, but because of the detailed but also easily understood explanation means any other information I learn that is applicable in my day to day will be useful and reliable. Thanks.

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

Welcome and thanks for subscribing 😀. I cover a ton of stuff so I am sure there will be some useful stuff that you might benefit from. Don’t be afraid to make suggestions too 😀👍.

[@rudyrivera7426]

Great topic! Thanks for sharing! Greg! Explaining excellent as usual! 👌👍

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

No problem 😀👍

[@karljolley8346]

the one thing I didnt hear mentioned is a vacuum chamber. I like the idea of those drytote for the tool box and inside the welder box...

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

So if you were to take rods directly out of a factory vacuum sealed container and immediately put them in personal vacuum packs they wouldn’t really pick up hydrogen from the air. Now officially companies wouldn’t do this over using a rod oven to keep them indefinitely as “low hydrogen” but this would be the closest thing that could be done to limit moisture exposure without storing them in a rod oven no doubt.

[@dfhepner]

What about a rod oven that also with heat has a vacuum pulled on the chamber. The lab I worked in would heat a chamber to 200C and also pulled an ultra high vacuum to get all the water out before they could start making chips.

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

If an oven could bake a rod out to the spec and had a vacuum, they could be indefinitely stored without continuous heating. That is sort of the theory behind the cans of rods that are sealed like a spam tin. The rods are put in with very little airspace (some are vacuum sealed) and they will not be able to pickup moisture. Where this doesn’t work the best is the foil vacuum packs (like the yellow esab) are far less durable as staying vacuum sealed because a simple cut or scratch through the foil is all it takes to allow air in. The metal tins are extremely durable in comparison.

[@meguinlia]

Another great video, thanks Greg. You are producing some more the most useful and practical info for the home gamer. I was re-watching your MIG stacking dimes video and was wondering if you could one day do a video on doing it properly with double pulse spray. Would also be really interested in a video on pulse spray for the home now that more and more affordable MIG machines are coming out with pulse. Even seen one with pulse stick recently XD

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

So I have a couple standing offers for a loaner a pulse spray welder I might consider it for a video in the future. The hard part is where I film is limited in power (I am in the middle of nowhere without more than a generator for power). True pulse spray actually needs a powerful machine to get acceptable results. Pulsing reduces heat input and to pulse spray while achieving the same penetration as straight spray (in the flat position) requires more power. Many welders offer mig pulse but unfortunately that only makes welding out of position easier, it doesn’t give the performance of spray. Short circuit mig actually works decent on vertical up welds on thicker material, it’s just a lot harder (takes more skill). Anyway I will have to see what I can figure out.

[@beyondmiddleagedman7240]

I don't do a lot of 7018, so I don't keep a lot on hand. What I do keep is stored in a Phoenix Dryrod 2 oven. The thing is only a few watts draw and cheap insurance. It's also a small enough footprint for a garage shop.

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

100%. Very cheap insurance. They are insulated so well it doesn’t take much electricity/ heat for the rods to stay hot. It removes all doubt as to the status, it doesn’t force a person to open a new pack every time they weld higher liability stuff, and the rods typically start better.

[@jasonburguess]

Stupid question, but why doesn't the arc which is at Temps as high as 3500f immediately vaporize the water out of the end of the rod before the pool is formed? I would think that any moisture that could be slowly baked out of the rod at 350f would be instantly removed at the arc sitting above 3500f?

[@OldGuy70s]

Now tht u said tht, i'd think the same...

[@OldGuy70s]

But, isnt there a coating that doesn't allow the outside air to contact the weld? Which may keep it from Evaporating awaY.? idk

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

Definitely not a stupid question 😀.So the hydrogen that we are dealing with here is not what amounts to visible moisture. It is hydrogen atoms that are stupidly small, and are difficult to remove from the flux. Only elevating the temps high and giving the heat time to bake the hydrogen out works. I have read studies from Lincoln electric that if you take a 7018 rod that has hydrogen and put it in a stabilizing oven at 350, even after what they described as a “indefinite” time there is still hydrogen in the flux. That is why AWS and manufactures spec that using a 550-700 degree bake out and subsequent 250-350 stabilizing oven is the only reliable way to return a “wet” rod to low hydrogen status. I am not a metallurgist or a chemist, but I would tend to believe that the hydrogen that finds its way into the molten weld pool (because the flux and the metal are both a liquid when welding) would try to escape away from the heat. That would mean a lot of the hydrogen atoms escape into the base material that is far colder than through the weld pool towards the rod. As the metal solidifies the hydrogen has caused a reduction in ductility due to microscopic holes and changes in the base material in the heat affected zone. One of the things that combats this is keeping the base material hot which gives more time for the hydrogen to escape, and that is commonly done on higher liability jobs and high strength materials. I would imagine hotter temps motivate the hydrogen atoms to escape faster and not collect in any significant number near a weld. Not to mention room temperatures is when higher strength alloys are the most prone to hydrogen cracking. Also, if you watch this video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/rGXcdXmJiMeDapYsi=o-INVaWZ-EAXr4q_ which I now linked in the description, you will see clear evidence of hydrogen escaping from a weld, which means that the welding arc and heat present is not enough to prevent hydrogen from the flux from entering the solidified and cooled weld. Hydrogen escapes for a very long time after the weld is cooled, which is more than enough time to have damage done on higher strength steels.

[@jasonburguess]

@makingmistakeswithgreg thank you for all this information! Hope you have a wonderful day!

[@dennisyoung4631]

Weird idea: the Arc breaks the hydrogen (H2) down into “ionized hydrogen” - such that it both penetrates into metal more, and has a greater effect upon the metal itself… Addendum: seems I’m onto something here. The ionized hydrogen is better named “atomic hydrogen;” it’s the most reactive form, and it was stated as being greater at causing hydrogen embrittlement!

[@charlottesspot]

very informative

[@nealesmith1873]

Interesting topic! I’ll look for high strength steel scrap for some experiments. I want to see a 6013 or 6010 weld fail first hand vs 7018.

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

If you weld 3/8th steel fillet weld with 6013 or 6010 and a second with 7018, the 7018 will not break while the weld is bent away from the face in a press. Even easier would be to just weld two fillet welds and hit them with a hammer (bending away from the face) and see which ones break first. 7018 is actually significantly stronger and less brittle than 60xx rods. Soon I will be experimenting with higher strength steels in a video. Surprisingly enough many higher strength steels are still best welded with 7018/er70 because the more ductile weld will be less brittle. Chromoly is a great example of this, without heat treatment the material will fail in the heat affected zone and not at the weld. So under welding it with er70 vs er80 works because the more ductile weld allows things to move more. Er80 only makes sense if you heat treat the whole part after welding.

[@nealesmith1873]

@ Thanks for this additional info! I also want to report that I made a cart out of 14 gauge square tubing to wheel around one of those economy welding tables that fold…so that it could be moved around through narrow spaces. Did it with 1/8 6013 (had to travel fast) and only had 3 small blow throughs and it came out nice and square. The weld beads vary in quality, but it will hold together. Thank you again for your video teachings!

[@jackowens9440]

Thanks Greg for information I have 2 or 3 gel packs inside my mig 7018 I bake for 2 or 3 hours in home oven and put in rod can with packs for my own use it does not met code O well

[@kevin-pk6hd]

Is this part of the reason that the non-flux electrodes used in mig and TIG are pretty much universally 70 series? Seems like stick has a lot more flavor options

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

So there are a lot of reasons for the tensile ratings. I have been told that the rod in a 6010 and a 7018 is actually the same alloy, and I tend to believe that could be the case. With stick in particular the flux composition used will change the shielding gas produced. So 6010 has an aggressive arc because it produces a ton of c02 gas. Just like in mig welding, 100% co2 gas produces a strength reduction using the same wire over c25. So the byproduct of 6010-6013 producing weaker welds than 7018 has more to do with the interaction of the flux, the shielding gas produced, and the grain structure that is produced due to how fast the weld solidifies, than the actual metal rod used. Tig and er70 mig produce what you could consider “ideal full strength” for mild steel (what most people weld on). A great way to look at it would be to think of the common fillers are made to match the most common materials. If they increased the strength of an average filler it may actually perform worse on mild steel, and if they reduced the strength of the filler it would obviously perform worse. 7018, tig/ mig with er70 all perform exceptionally well with common mild steel.

[@marcwolstenholme3608]

Love your videos !! I have done many projects using 7014. I love the way it starts and restarts and the way it runs. Flux removal norm ally just rolls off the bead. Is hydrogen inclusion normally a problem with this product ? Thanks. Looking forward to your response

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

So 7014 is not a low hydrogen rod and it does indeed deposit hydrogen into the weld. If you were to weld higher strength steel (say some part of a dozer for instance) with it you could have cracking issues. 7014 is made with moisture in the flux, and it shouldn’t be removed via baking the rod, it will not run right. Just like 6010-6011 need moisture in the flux to work properly. A vast majority of things you could weld 7014 will work ok and not fail. This is due to the fact many things are made with joints of low restraint, mild steel, and don’t experience significant loadings. 7018 is indeed stronger however. On thick steel 7018 will produce stronger and more ductile welds than 7014, and have slightly more penetration. This holds true even if the 7018 rods were stored the same as 7014. The oven requirement with 7018 is to give the ability to safely weld high strength steels, not because the rod needs it to function. 7018 runs fine without a oven, and even just stored in the package it came with. That ability to weld higher strength materials is something 7014 and no 60xx rod can reliably do because all of them impart hydrogen into the weld.

[@thegarbagegladiators4735]

What about a kitchen stove ? Couldnt you throw them in a stove to remove moisture and reliability use the rods?

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

A stove wouldn’t meet code for baking them out unless it could hit 550-700 degrees F for a hour. By spec that is the temp that needs to be hit for the rod to meet low hydrogen spec. 250-350f is only for storage of rods out of a package (within 4-8 hours of opening a sealed pack). So by code and manufactures spec a normal oven wouldn’t likely be able to properly “bake out” a 7018. From a realistic point a 7018 that was held at 350degrees for a few hours would have no issue having very little hydrogen, and wouldn’t likely pose any issue for most of what someone would weld. No, it wouldn’t meet code/manufactures spec for low hydrogen, but it would likely impart .01% of the hydrogen that 6010-6013-7014 would. So in simple terms welding with say 7014 will produce a weld full of hydrogen in comparison to a low temp baked 7018, so substituting 7014 because it’s “safer” than 7018 is a grave mistake. You can’t bake a 7014 out to make it low hydrogen, it needs hydrogen in the flux to work properly. So yes even a low temp “stabilizing” temp would be beneficial over nothing with 7018, but it wouldn’t meet the spec of low hydrogen and could still pose an issue with higher strength steel.

[@googlegok9637]

i am kidding myself , by immediately after opening a pack of esab 7018 . taking out the rods i need and then resealing the pack with plastic foil. btw keeping them in a nice warm dry room.

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

Honestly what you described would likely never be an issue. If you did in on a job site welding pipe in a power plant, there would be serious issues lol. Much of what code says is to reduce the possibility of variables as much as possible. If you wanted to use those rods to weld a bridge beam together I wouldn’t use them. For almost anything someone might weld in the home I wouldn’t worry at all. Especially because many people use 6010,6011,6013,7014 all the time to repair stuff and don’t see failures,. 7018 stored the way you described would put .01% of the moisture into the weld that those rods do right out of the box.

[@OldGuy70s]

So are pipeline guys not worried about hydrogen cracking when they use 6010 as a hot pass? And i cant belive an Air-Fryer or a Toaster Oven wouldn't be enough...... Btw: None of the 7018 ive bought are in a sealed pack... A half a.zzed seal is all.........

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

So that is an excellent question and probably one of the most confusion situations because it’s very common for pipe to be welded with 6010 and filled out to the cap with rod oven stored 7018. The reason it works is due to multiple things. 1) the root pass of a pipe can’t be reliably done with 7018, because its pool is too liquid and would be a nightmare to deal with poor fitups. 6010 gives the welder so much control over the root pass it makes it possible to weld it. On one pipe you can be welding overhead, vertical up, and flat, all with varying gaps. 6010 is the best solution to that. The steel used in many pipes is not really susceptible to hydrogen embrittlement, so a single pass isn’t the end of the world. Pipe also doesn’t see stress like say a bridge. Because pipe is fully welded around with 7018 the actual loadings the root will see are minimal. The internal pressure can be high (depending on what the pipe is used for) but again there is plenty of meat right behind the root to hold everything together. In situations where the pipe material needs low hydrogen welds, the solution could be tig root and hot pass, 7018 all the way out, tig start to finish, or specific pipe line rods used for the root pass. If the pipe is prefabbed it could be done in a shop with a wire process. Also from my understanding hydrogen embrittlement happens most at room temp in steel. If you welded a root on a pipe with 6010, and then welded it fully out (or a significant amount of it) with 7018 there would be a lot of time at elevated temps for hydrogen to escape because only the root put hydrogen into the base material. Only on procedures that allowed 6010 root to cap (which is mainly low liability work with low standards of weld quality, often run downhill) would there be a massive amount of hydrogen in weld deposit. As far as the toaster oven, if it hit 250 it would be enough to stabilize the rods but not meet spec for a “bake out”. I read via Lincoln electric and AWS testing that a 7018 with hydrogen could not be returned to low hydrogen status at a 300 degree temp for an extended period of time. The atomic hydrogen apparently bonds too strongly to the flux to be removed fully at lower temps. That’s why the info directly from the AWS and Lincoln electric specify extended periods at lower temps is not a substitution for a 550+ bake out for a hour or two. Luckily for most things a normal person would weld it really doesn’t matter. Even a 7018 in a mediocrely sealed box is still stronger/better to use on mild steel.

[@Hey_Its_That_Guy]

Great video, Greg, thank you! What about flux core or dual shield wire? Any concerns there about moisture?

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

Great question. So self shielded wire (the common household type) is generally not used on higher strength alloys because it tends to produce brittle welds. It and dual shield tend not to pickup as much moisture as stick rods because it’s harder for moisture to get into the flux inside the wire tube. With dual shield they do make spec wire for low hydrogen (the wire is coated to help moisture intrusion) and the wire is sold in a sealed spool. The bigger spools come on a wire spool that can be baked out in an oven if needed. From a realistic perspective if the wire is stored in a dry box with a desiccant pack it will be fine. When the wire sits in the machine it will rust over time and that will make the wire run poorly. If the wire has rust its low hydrogen status will likely be compromised and weld defects are almost certain (from the contaminated, not possibility of moisture in the flux).

[@brnmcc01]

@@makingmistakeswithgreg I suppose what one could do is, before starting a weld, hit the trigger and shoot out 6 inches or so of wire. Trim it off to your desired stickout with your MiG pliers and get going. I highly doubt moisture will make it into the flux core more than a couple inches.

[@yurimodin7333]

Where do you get those weld for tacos stickers?

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

Stay tuned, I am giving 500 of them away for free. I am just behind on getting it all setup. Within 2 weeks it will be setup and a video will drop on it 😀👍.

[@yurimodin7333]

@@makingmistakeswithgreg NICE

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

Another way to look at this issue is that liquid water (hydrogen and oxygen) doesn’t exist in or on a 7018 rods flux at say 250 degrees. I (and the welding community in general) are bad at using slang to describe things. Case in point “baking the moisture out of the rods”, “wet rods” or “moisture in the air absorbs into the flux” is really not an accurate description of the problem. The issue lies in the atoms of hydrogen that bind to the flux not easily being removed. This is why manufactures and the American welding society specify 550-700 degree Fahrenheit bake out temps to recondition a rod back to low hydrogen status and not 300 degrees. Liquid water or moisture (as oxygen hydrogen, or h2o) will vaporize and evaporate easily at 300+ degrees. Not all of the hydrogen atoms will leave the flux at those temps, and the oxygen they may be bound with isn’t a concern (the hydrogen atoms are the problem). So what we have here is a case of ridiculously small atoms of hydrogen not wanting to leave the flux, and the only way to ensure the removal of them from a “wet rod” so that it meets spec is very high temps. From a practical standpoint 7018 used out of a previously open but currently shut pack of rods doesn’t meet low hydrogen spec but it will impart a minuscule amount of hydrogen into a weld compared to say 6011-6013-or 7014 because 7018 itself didn’t have hydrogen in the flux when it was made and whatever hydrogen was in it currently would have been picked up from exposure to air. In every situation 7018 should be your choice of rod for higher strength materials over 7014 because it will always have less hydrogen in the flux.

[@dennisyoung4631]

Shows the *dreaded* Excalibur!

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

Haha, I have ran about 200 lbs of it recently, and it works pretty good. I prefer Esabs atom arc or 7018 prime. The big issue with Lincoln is they have had some spotty quality control. I bought a 50lb tin and the flux varied by almost a half inch for where it stopped on the stinger end. It can also be hard to find bigger tins that don’t have a bunch of damaged rods in them.

[@fastbusiness]

How about those Pakistani's using 6013 for everything from wheelbarrows to axles and engine crankshafts? Is hydrogen embrittlement the least of their concerns? 🤨

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

I have wondered that too, and my conclusion is there is a reason the video only shows the repair and not the finished product a year from now lol. You can do so much wrong with welding and it will hold up temporarily. Like using a 6013 to repair an axle shaft, or to build up a crank. In the long run it will fail, but considering the reliability they are willing to accept, it likely works for them. In this country it’s uncommon to rebuild a heavy truck engine on the side of the highway, or reweld a broken cam, because it doesn’t make sense. A over abundance of cheap labor combined with the expectations of low reliability gives rise to wild fixes lol.

[@dennisyoung4631]

“…and a lack of real options in some places, also…”

[@domino1842]

Why can’t anyone seem to make a good affordable oven?

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

The only reasonable oven I have ever found is a used small Lincoln one that holds like 5-10lbs of rods. The one I have I think I paid 150$ for about a year ago, but that was a smoking good deal. Even at 150$ that’s a lot to pay for the average person just to keep rods hot and keep hydrogen out of them. The cheap ones on Amazon are still 130$. It’s a lot easier just to keep a sealed pack around for a job you believe the low moisture would be a concern.

[@dennisyoung4631]

Supposedly 7018 and the like tend to run “better” if they’re kept “warm and dry.” True???

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

I can tell you that rods straight out of an oven run slightly better (when used within 4 hours) than ones right out of a sealed can. I have burned up probably 100lbs of rods in the past 2 months. 3/4 out of a oven 1/4 out of a new can, and given the choice I would take them out of an oven vs out of a can. The hotter rod starts a bit easier, and for some reason the slag peels off a bit easier. Even after the rods cool to ambient temp they seem to be a bit better.

[@dennisyoung4631]

@ thanks. I’d *read/heard* this was the case, and had attempted to make a rod-warmer to find out if it was true. Still might try to make an inexpensive rod-warmer, if it looks like I might need to do much *stick* in the future - that, and secure an Esab with hot-start and arc-force, so as to run 6010/6011 decently.

[@SouthernGround]

after I retired from the welding business and giving up all the cool tool's ie. rod ovens, baker's ect. I was faced with such a problem " keeping LH dry" at first I kept away from the 18's, couldn't justify even a small 110v portable oven because of the "feeding the power company" for that occasional 7018 job, so although this isn't code I did this, I have a 16" bag sealer, got a roll of poly tube 16" wide. opened a fresh can of 7018 and sealed 10 rods in a pack. these packs of ten each in it's own little sealed place ( like of looks like a machine gun ammo belt). all is stored in "Rod Guard" cans with jel packets in the can to catch that moisture that gets pulled in when opening, all this is done within an hour. To use I open the can, pull out a ten pack and close the can. now I have just a blister pack of rod's that I poke each end through the plastic bag, the other rod's are still sealed. since I don't do code work anymore I feel comfortable with this method. it's cheap and I am not feeding the power company. You are correct about proper storage and that's why we have AWS , when it comes to critical welding you can't cheap out. I kind of wish the rod company's like Lincoln would package their LH for small users ie. individually vacuum sealed rod's in blister pack's like I made (mine are not vac sealed only protected from moisture. Fantastic video Sir have a blessed 2025. 😉👍

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

What you described I would have no qualms with using the rods on most anything I do. At the very worst the rods would have .01% of the hydrogen a typical 6010-6013-7014 would. I doubt it would even be enough to ever cause an issue on even high strength steel, but the code exists to eliminate variables. High strength and high liability often go hand in hand, and you can’t leave anything up to chance lol. It is too bad that it’s tough to find small sealed packs of 7018s. The best option for that which I have found is Esabs 7018 prime in 4 lb packs, but those are getting super hard to find (maybe they are discontinuing them). I keep a couple packs of them in my truck when I do mobile work so I don’t have to deal with a rod oven.

[@yurimodin7333]

or at least have 5lb and 10lb packs divided up into 1lb sealed packs

[@GustavoCastillaEtherDreams]

Give me the devil's advocate, how about using a toaster oven you know those new ones they have with the little door they supposed to be reached 500

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

So to meet manufacture spec and American welding societies spec if you had a rod that was out of a package for say 3 days, the only way to have it meet low hydrogen spec would be to bake it at 550-700 degrees F for a period of typically 1-2 hours. After that’s complete you would then put it in a stabilizing oven at 250-350 degrees F for indefinite storage. The problem with a toaster oven is it’s not a solid plan for long term storage of electrodes, and it arguably couldn’t hit high enough temps to meet the bake out requirements. It could only be used to hold rods out of a pack at a stabilized temp. They are that specific because (from what I have read) the hydrogen atoms that have locked in the flux are bonded so strongly that reduced temps (even for a indefinite time) are not enough to get all of the atomic hydrogen out. Both Lincoln electric and AWS specify in writing that extended storage at 300 degrees is not/should not be used as a substitute for a higher temp bake out. For the most part this isn’t an issue for people, unless they weld on higher strength alloys. Even if they do simply using a fresh pack that’s sealed removes all doubt to the low hydrogen spec. When the rods are made there isn’t hydrogen in the flux, unlike 6010-6013 and other rods, so in a sealed pack it won’t pickup hydrogen.

[@GustavoCastillaEtherDreams]

@makingmistakeswithgreg thank you sir appreciate it I said it was devil's advocate