Malcolm Gladwell Wants to Make the World Safe for Mediocrity | Conversations with Tyler

Journalist, author, and podcaster Malcolm Gladwell joins Tyler for a conversation on Joyce Gladwell, Caribbean identity, satire as a weapon, Daniel Ellsberg and Edward Snowden, Harvard’s under-theorized endowment, why early childhood intervention is overrated, long-distance running, and Malcolm’s happy risk-averse career going from one “fur-lined rat hole to the next.”
Transcript and links: conversationswithtyler.com/ep...
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[@mayofabulous]

I love listening to Gladwell work through ideas. Its not so much whether I think he is right or not but that he encourages us to think.

[@dlopez7330]

Mayowa A I agree first point. right out the discussion.

[@bolivar1789]

Hello there Mayowa! So you shouldn't miss his podcast "Revisionist History". I have heard all the episodes. All of them are excellent! Have a nice evening:-)

[@avanigupta8258]

, I am deeply pained by his conclusions. inspite of knowing the truth u collected data and conclude wrongly and controvercialy just to gain people’s attention.you were clearly knowing that getting motivated or depressed seeing other’s success depends entirely on individual’s attitude.And the people who can’t embrace the good in you can’t embrace the good in themselves.Even if u die for them they wont be affected a bit.They will find reasons for their failures because they don’t want to take the responsibility of their lives.If they want to learn can do so anywhere from anyone,if they want to justify the reasons for not doing their best and failing they can do so eighter.If they wanna get depressed they will anyhow find reasons to do so.If they wanna get inspired they will find reasons to do so.Their feeling of self worth , not only self worth but every feeling, every emotion , every action is totally dependent on them and you cant do anything on this. its their attitude which is disadvantageous to them.Not the ELITE institutions .Someone can take motivation and learn by looking at your work if he ever has a zeal to do something.If not, that person is bound to keep playing the blame game and die doing nothing..Everybody knows there are many factors which count for success .Also no one is born intelligent, only hardwork pays off. Still he plays with your conclusions just to gain attention of people and remain interesting..

[@thereGoMapo]

And formulates so much ideas in such a distilled way

[@norn5112]

Totally

[@DP-dc2vv]

Malcolm is great here, but kudos to the interviewer...super thoughtful and well researched in his preparation

[@onewomanslife]

Gadwell is BANG on with the marketing of Harvard degrees. Luxury goods are not actually designed to be serviceable.

[@Cindihful]

Malcolm Gladwell is a genius! He encourages one to think deeply about humanity, through stories that compell one to evaluate our conclusions. Love his work, and own many of his books!

[@suzannesands7330]

Deeply? I'm not seeing it.

[@craigdylan3953]

FYI -Gladwell is no genius. A word thrown around by some, with little or nor deep education. He is mildly engaging, fairly intelligent, and typical of the soft male pedantic; nothing more. For 'Genius' you might want to look up the history of Mozart, Tesla, Einstein, Shakespere...Malcom is not in this class. Lower the bar for genius is typical of the vapid audience in Western Culture.

[@deidrekellogg9100]

Fascinating. I am a huge fan of the brilliant Malcolm Gladwell.

[@bryaneldred4082]

He gives a real-life, personal example of how dramatically failing in a competitive event propelled a lesser athlete to be world class, then follows up by saying competition is harmful and everyone should participate regardless their excellence. I'll stick to hard reality when it conflicts with intellectual speculation.

[@rmartin876]

Great speaker abaolutely brilliant

[@4um360]

It is always interesting to listen to or read Malcom Gladwell.

[@gilbatester]

The most underrated Jamaican music artist is Joseph Hill

[@nicholasmaxson9452]

His answer to the question at 1:18:30 is IMO the most profound thing I’ve heard in a while. I agree and I believe/pray that as a culture we’re heading back to a time where more people try more things, which will naturally create greater advancement for us as a whole.

[@craigdylan3953]

IF this is THE MOST PROFOUND THING... I feel very sorry for you. Sounds like you haven't had much of a 'life of the mind.' "Pray", as a culture ? ( no less ) more people try more things. This is profound? Surely you are Joking Dr Feynman.

[@lizgichora6472]

Thank you very much.

[@andrewtischler9385]

Superb talk and illuminating opinions.

[@coquitlamfalcons3976]

One of the best Conversations with Tyler! And yes, I have subsribed to the podcast.

[@MnMcancook]

What a wonderful chat!! Great speaker and moderator! Encore!

[@ORGANICsoulJAZZ]

8:31 Slyvia Wynter talk 17:38 Contempt and Pity

[@alekhandrjames9288]

Love gladwell. I love listening to him. But I'm so distracted by the bottle of ketchup in the lower right corner.

[@stephenkane2464]

lol yes!

[@dlopez7330]

Alekhandr James oh sht didn't realize

[@kevinmaclachlan5495]

I know that seems random but he had a piece in The New Yorker about a guy who tried to create a better ketchup...and I'll let you read the rest. Good read, you can also see it in What the Dog Saw

[@billykobilca6321]

Alekhandr James Ta-ha lol... Me too

[@mjames3705]

Lol, had to check the comments to see if I was the only one that was being distracted by the ketchup bottle.

[@jontydenton1898]

When i was 13 we tried basketball for first time (not big in 1970s England) in minutes we couldnt miss with free throws which we did underhand....the ‘coach’ stopped us and taught us overhang....which made us miss ....a lot! Nearest familiar skill was rugby ball passing...ntw

[@nateo6518]

Malcom and I absolutely agree on at least one thing: poor free throw shooters should shoot 'granny style'. I've been saying that for years. So many times an important game comes down to the losing team missing free throws. The fact that we notice them most at the waning seconds of the game may be arbitrary. An early game miss is just as important as a late game miss, but I digress. People don't shoot underhanded free throws because 'big boys don't shoot that way.' Nonsense. If Shaq or Wilt had the balls to shoot underhanded free throws they may very well have more championship rings. Thanks, Malcom, for agreeing with me.

[@TWN321]

8:30 - Unique American negation of black identity 14:00 - contributors to movement for US equality since 50s (critique of entertainment, sports contributions) 18:00 - Doll Test Contradiction / Self-Hatred - Condescension 22:30 - Higher Education / Endowments 29:45 - Harvard according to Malcolm Gladwell 34:20 - Sports, Development (anti specialize) 39:20 - Exclusivity vs. Opportunity 46:30 - Overrated vs Underrated 1:06:00 - Satire 1:18:00 - Q & A

[@ajsipherd1294]

9:21 someone gets a text

[@LOUDsigh]

Love MG.

[@slmeucalesa1]

INTRO: They always try to figure him out.........just let him be.

[@mimishyu123]

What he says, as from my own experience, is from someone already been very successful in his career as well as his life. My dad graduate from UPenn and then work in a quite famous architecture firm in New York city at the time around 1984-1992, he and my mom are students from Taiwan so they're Taiwanese immigrants study and work in United States, it seems that all should be as happy as it would be, however when the time I was born in 1991 he lost his job in New York so our family leave US went back to Taiwan which is the place he started his business, starting a new business wasn't easy, you had to rent the office in the city-center even live there, pay the wages to your employees plus lots of expenses such as utility bill.....he ask for my relatives for money and the result is they don't contact our family forever, even until now, I won't believe anyone- such as Malcom-who says that run a startup is not as difficult as you think, also according to a survey almost 95% startups fail in the end, so it's never never possible for me, in my life duration, to start a business for myself anyhow. I'm ABC American Born Chinese so it should be that I go to the American school in Taipei, but that's not what my education background was, from elementary to university I study in the public school in Taiwan so my English fluency are not as good as those native speakers- the most regret thing in my life, it's just American school is a school that charge too high a price for it's tuition and my parents can't afford to this, but the education system in Taiwan only deem English a subject not a language used in our daily life, most people in Taiwan cannot talk English very fluently even they understand some of it, I spent lots of my time and energy to learn English all by myself after graduate from university to makeup for misdoings and wrong decisions my dad had made in my childhood

[@tylerstamps2786]

Deep down I’m a Gladwellian at heart.

[@frankmaitland2569]

I love reading the comments from Phd Douches on every Gladwell thread.

[@BTurpin]

I know right. Nothing like academic elitism with a side of jealousy.

[@raphael5165]

I like this guy.

[@erikliljenwall8185]

30:00 this reminds me of one of my favorite jokes: How can you tell if someone when to Stanford? Oh, they'll let you know.

[@stephtaylor875]

Anyone taking the time to listen to this interview has to at least be 50% smarter than the general public. I’m sure I’m overgeneralizing but even though I disagree with a lot of you, I respect your ability to be a thoughtful thinker and willingness to allow open dissent

[@kaemcolm5455]

If my memory serves me correctly, the Dumbarton Oaks Museum is open to the public. I (vaguely) recall being there maybe 40 years ago while on holidays from Australia. But I could be wrong. Can anyone enlighten me?

[@eoinleen1]

A Small Town in Germany is IMO definitly the most under rated John Le Carré Novel. It's a stunning book!

[@zwickzack]

Interesting take on Ellsberg and Snowden.

[@ZEBEEtheoriginal]

The majority identity is vitally important to the islands. Their media does not erase or shame them as a group. Also, the sports entertainment industry for African-Americans is a modern day Gladiators system. There is glory, but the Gladiator is not free. Lastly, the African-American use of Brer rabbit was most similar Louise Bennett's one upsmanship, though they played down their intelligence. Great talk.

[@GreenOrchid9]

Struggle and the medicine of acceptance...💯hyper valuation...abscence of that weight and pathology...history control of the narrative...

[@bellottibellotti9185]

Gladwell reveals the weakness in some of his thought...I am a fan

[@EustaceKirstein]

It's nice to see a Kirstein come up in this talk 👍 @51:00

[@jamesgilliland5114]

Endowments: 26:25

[@GreenOrchid9]

Diluting the brand! Minimize impact! Underhanded free throws

[@DrRestezi]

He's the Forrest Gump of public intellectuals.

[@maxbie123]

While I do believe that Gladwell's specific criticisms of some endowments are correct, I don't particularly understand Gladwell's insistence that they should all be spent to zero. Large endowments provide economic stability for social institutions in turbulent market situations. This allows them to continue at full-strength through recessions instead of suffering from bankruptcy (and thereby contributing to the depth of economic cycles). Perpetual endowment spending is consistent with the law of diminishing returns. If Harvard listed out all of the educational opportunities it could provide and rank-listed them by size of effect, the 1st billion would surely be more effectively spent than the 40th. As education is a perpetual need, spending that money on today's 40th priority leaves tomorrow's 1st priority unfilled. He brings up the example of the Rosenwald schools - not mentioning that it still took 31 years to spend all of the money in that fund (ending in 1948). Reduce that amount by approximately 20% per year and you would still have a Rosenwald school fund today, which would have given a total of ~300% more to the cause than the original fund actually did.

[@maggiejetson7904]

Endowment is the result, exclusivity is the goal. As you can see in the engineering side of education Harvard is a POS compare to even state schools.

[@Bless-the-Name]

I'm a drop-out and I know and understand things these people will never know.

[@beritbranch2436]

Billie Dawn +1 million=Masterclass

[@Collegesharks]

Minute 40 SHAZAAM and minute 22.5

[@ytjoemoore94]

Why is there ketchup on the stack of books next to gladwell?

[@garytoth2122]

If you watched the whole interview , you would have your answer...

[@DrJohnnyJ]

A horrible thing: A-'s. You get a 90% and still don't get an A. The pressure to get an "A" is terrible.

[@LyndaMackrous-wi6fv]

The Ivy League schools is about. Money$$$

[@julietstephens7742]

Anthony Atamanik - best Trump impression bar none. Intelligent and cutting.

[@maryparker3392]

Hi Malcom First time for me. Let's do again sometime. As they say , Birds do it etc. Etc. Etc. Love, Mary Therese Parker

[@thopmsonsmith3256]

Hello Mary How are you doing today?

[@thefirebuilds]

Gladwell mentions a paper on the backlash of Brown v Board of Education but stumbles with the author. It's Klarman: www.jstor.org/stable/2080994?seq=1

[@benjaminjiin8432]

The Pentagon papers vs Edward Snowden's revelation: I need to hear way way more. I want to really understand these moments in much more clarity. Next talk: Edward Snowden meets Malcolm Gladwell and maybe....

[@billykobilca6321]

A Jamaican Canadian Treasure

[@suzannesands7330]

The genius who wrote a multi-hundred page book that could have been conveyed in a 1-sided pamphlet --- with gems like "you have to put in lots of hours to be successful" --- most certainly is a treasure.

[@UdayOak]

can I get fries with that? ref to the Heinz prod placement..

[@willmpet]

There is a habit of universities not to value students properly. Though there is an attempt to choose intelligently, there is the habit of using their own grading system to decide who is best kept around and who should be thrown away. This becomes perilous because instructors and professors are motivated in different manners. The student who figures out how to play the “ game” of being successful in college is not necessarily the best student. Some professors respond to strokes of their pride-this can be dangerous! Others may only be responding to the dictates of their chairman, who may have unctuous designs, not related to the students at all! Why should I value the opinions of one university over another? Why should any corporation hire any from that school at all, just because they have a reputation?

[@justincoles2483]

Host comes across as really nice man, but I really need to shave that island to concentrate on the interview.

[@tonirose6776]

More than nice. He is an intellectual himself, as Gladwell acknowledges in this interview.

[@andybaldman]

*Lol @ his answer to the question at **1:20:14**.*

[@capucinej9319]

If @8:57-11:03 ain't the truth!

[@DK-tk1nu]

Why is there a bottle of Heinz tomato source on the books on the table between them?

[@4um360]

Derrick Kourie If I remember correctly, in one of his books he writes about a study of how difficult it is to make decisions when there are many options. I think he used sauce as an example.

[@BTurpin]

I didn't know they made a tomato source. Can you quote the sauce?! 😉😆

[@GM_-]

@@BTurpin lol! 😁

[@BRAGSmusicTV]

Outliers changed life

[@danikd2924]

28:00

[@cavezchesar6503]

Where are the comments

[@danikd2924]

10:00

[@katiee263]

The satire point… fwiw, I think a lot of people have taken the shortcut of lampooning, and thinking of it as being the same as satirizing… 🤷🏼‍♀️

[@ggrthemostgodless8713]

46:28 The average by definition is NOT and cannot be the best or greatest... it is not "arbitrary".

[@AM-or5mi]

You missed the point. He was accurately pointing out that we often set the parameters for what 'great' means and gave an example of how a country which produces a large number of runners in the top 100 is still not considered to be 'great' or a 'power house' because their runners don't happen to be in the top 10, even though there is a larger volume of them in the top 100. That, indeed, is purely subjective and arbitrary.

[@michaeleaster1815]

Near 28:10 Gladwell criticizes endowments and claims that we "should spend to zero". i.e. effect change with full use of resources. Then near 1:29:10 he wonders if social justice went too fast and should have happened in small increments. I'm disappointed no one asked him about the two contexts. Otherwise loved the conversation.

[@mikestirewalt5193]

With his podcasts and KZbin presence I've found myself listening to a lot of Gladwell over the last few months and am surprised at myself. I came across him first in the New Yorker and his book Blink. This was a thoughtful interview and more interesting than many of the mostly formulaic interviews and presentations he's settled into over time. He's becoming too predictable to be interesting, although parts of this interview are exceptions to what has become the "norm". The "norm" is, he searches for and finds a little known piece of history and builds an elaborate structure around it hoping the listener/reader will confuse quantity with quality, especially by using words and concepts that he knows will catch the attention of those of us in the higher pencentiles. He's been doing this over and over and I suppose will continue as long as his books sell and articles are read and podcasts listened to. I predict he'll bore himself at some point. He's certainly not the only one doing this routine. He's been worth listening to mainly because some of it is good and also . . . there's so much crap being produced that even things mediocre can seem worth listening to when one is thoroughly sick of the culture wars. It's not ALL mediocre of course. He comes up with occasional gems. I think my "listening to Gladwell" days are ending though. It's astonishing how much time we can waste listening to public displays of other peoples' mental meanderings. Time perhaps to get back to books. _Plagues and Peoples_ I'm currently learning from and enjoying. William McNeill. Published 1977 and particularly relevant just now. Virus' and microbes have done more to shape our societies than all the wars and ideologies combined.

[@cahillgreg]

Shush Now

[@richardcampbell8498]

“It’s astonishing how much time we waste listening to other people’s mental meanderings” after that fucking pedantic treatise you wrote, said without the slightest bit of irony, huh? Wow.

[@droliver]

This idea of delaying specialization is flawed. What’s separating these athletes in their teens is puberty hitting. The anecdote of Federer playing soccer really isn’t true, as he was playing very focused tennis before age age teen and playing internationally at 10-11.

[@janeanyangoodhiambo]

What I understood from that is don't focus on only one thing, the skills needed to excel for a certain sport can be learnt in another n then greatly applied in the one you want to specialise in.

[@droliver]

@@janeanyangoodhiambo that's just increasingly not really true though at the elite level. Sport specific training is pretty much the norm even at the young ages because technique and repetition on strategy is what seperates out high level participates rather then some generic athleticism. Casual participation in unrelated activity is great, but less efficient for acquiring what seperates good from great when all your peers are elite athletes

[@DrJohnnyJ]

You go to those elite schools for two things: 1) the jobs you get 2) learning from your peers. Once you have been around smart people, anyone else is annoying. I am probably the dumbest professor at my university but I really enjoy my colleagues.

[@TWN321]

Interesting, but what do you say to his point about being in a competitive environment where you are at the bottom of the curve? You *might* have *some* competition with other professors, but a student being graded on a curve is in direct competition with all of his classmates... is it hazardous for a 99 percentile student to surround himself with 99.99 percentile students?

[@emillyyelen5169]

@@TWN321 well that student can fail or try to get better...

[@OscarNevarezInsane]

Gladwell's excitement voice pitch sounds exactly the same that Jordan Peterson's excitement tone.

[@tonirose6776]

Maybe it's because they're thinking in the moment, an ideas excite them. Peterson is too rabidly conservative all considered.

[@TheReactor8]

16:00 and on he is wrong, love him still even when he tends to stay political correct even when he should know better. Read/listen to Thomas Sowell.

[@TheTimeOfThePlace]

oh he cut his hair, wow, it proves my theory of hair and the correlation with vacuous thoughts

[@GreenOrchid9]

Gladiator to avoid dead ends?

[@ZEBEEtheoriginal]

Sitting around the table recounting hilarious stories is the norm for the middle and lower classes un the Caribbean. Interesting, that it was not the case for him as an upper class Caribbean decent child. It's possible it is a Caribbean father thing?

[@nozecone]

I don't know - I suspect it's more just the personalities of his parents. In my own family, there are great story-tellers - and others who who you can hardly get a word out of ........

[@maryparker3392]

I Sent in a comment yesterday in connection With another podcast.,can you check it out and let me know the response, if any Buttercup

[@avanigupta8258]

Sir Plz tell it depends on a person's attitude whether to learn from other's success or not? Then how come u talk abt relative degradation?

[@drlance4theipad]

Classic Gladwell sites his Mom as a classic race experience in American even though she never lived here - she lived in London, Jamaica & CANADA! His classic “revisionist history”.

[@ggrthemostgodless8713]

His point of view... and those experiences were not too different then the "american" experience. You either rise to the challenge or are defeated by it.

[@4um360]

If you check a map, you will notice that Canada is in America.

[@amcsibozgor6791]

wow dude really wants to show off his knowledge of Jamaican popular music. Gladwell seems appropriately less fascinated.

[@nasonh4324]

why do people feel the need to categorize, label, and stuff people in a "box" ... your preconceptions are more a commentary on you than the person you interviewing.

[@thebookwasbetter3650]

I donated a million dollars to Harvard. Now their endowment is $40.001 billion. That's me on the far right!

[@michaelm7560]

William F. Buckley ? Insane. The author of “Why the South Must Prevail” ? Holy Christ. Must be Jesuit

[@at6851]

Malcolm is wrong if he says the problem of Black people is not that they are denied opportunities or doors are closed to them. Whaaaat? That's one of the key points - Doors are closed to black people. That's a known fact.

[@Sarakmv]

G

[@chelseawilkinson307]

Weirdly fucked up how he tried to break down who he is as a person there at the beginning lol

[@dixonpinfold2582]

Celebrities are fucked-up people.

[@mikec5054]

All schools are for profit, big profit

[@markallen9600]

omg..that mother, again

[@dozerdynasty9287]

Only 302k views? Come on humanity, I'm disappointed in you.

[@caesarvolz6945]

I don't know what it is with intelligent, well educated people constantly punctuating sentences with "right?", but it needs to stop. It makes people sound like idiots It's the 90s rapper version of "ya know what I'm sayin'?".

[@albertareid8850]

Hey ! I want to know if GLADWELL IS MARRIED!!!!

[@zhangs4667]

He doesn’t

[@joshuadiez4406]

The penitent cocoa startlingly happen because risk totally paste up a innocent weapon. black, defiant seal

[@joshuadiez4406]

The ajar olive individually stuff because frost normally radiate at a third digestion. slimy, hungry game

[@nateo6518]

Can't we just let pimentos be pimentos and agree to disagree? Olive Oil? Yes. Olives? Never. What a waste of pimentos.

[@kerloz4097]

The alike turnover naturally program because selection recurrently heat along a typical sunshine. psychedelic, far-flung rail

[@kerloz4097]

The squealing bubble epidemiologically copy because norwegian accordantly introduce inside a fearful fearless piccolo. diligent, kaput recorder

[@joshuadiez4406]

The colossal shirt ecologically strap because peanut wessely wail under a didactic current. better, odd view

[@rainafortini5797]

Shocking. Malcolm describing the purpose of endowment from the pt of view of a 16-year-old

[@luffypuffy8370]

The dreary pine respectively zoom because poultry proportionally stare anenst a false familiar famous apartment. purple, elated pisces

[@joshuadiez4406]

The good buffer neuropathologically wash because ray beverly welcome from a vagabond makeup. left, dangerous squash

[@ambassador8524]

The interviewer is intellectually cringeable. Edit: I like him though.

[@josephhenry7431]

The domineering marimba importantly reproduce because samurai currently greet save a peaceful show. physical, fortunate married

[@nateo6518]

That's exactly what I've been trying to say my whole life. Marimbas. Those DAMN marimbas. Trying to run my life. Physically, fortunately. (No longer married)

[@josephkeller1053]

The milky mailbox notably strengthen because division unsurprisingly queue per a eminent sunshine. productive, panicky meal

[@nateo6518]

Is that a poem about breastfeeding?

[@avanigupta8258]

Sir, I am deeply pained by your conclusion. inspite of knowing the truth u collected data and conclude wrongly and controvercialy just to gain people’s attention.you were clearly knowing that getting motivated or depressed seeing other’s success depends entirely on individual’s attitude.And the people who can’t embrace the good in you can’t embrace the good in themselves.Even if u die for them they wont be affected a bit.They will find reasons for their failures because they don’t want to take the responsibility of their lives.If they want to learn can do so anywhere from anyone,if they want to justify the reasons for not doing their best and failing they can do so eighter.If they wanna get depressed they will anyhow find reasons to do so.If they wanna get inspired they will find reasons to do so.Their feeling of self worth , not only self worth but every feeling, every emotion , every action is totally dependent on them and you cant do anything on this. its their attitude which is disadvantageous to them.Not the ELITE institutions .Someone can take motivation and learn by looking at your work if he ever has a zeal to do something.If not, that person is bound to keep playing the blame game and die doing nothing..Everybody knows there are many factors which count for success .Also no one is born intelligent, only hardwork pays off. Still u play with your conclusions just to gain attention of people and remain interesting.That’s very shameful Sir.

[@kerloz4097]

The future futuristic pantyhose concordantly suspend because experience ethnically spill beside a gigantic department. concerned, natural minute

[@joshuadiez4406]

The ill-fated arrow connolly tire because border predominantly arrange than a modern beech. unusual, abusive laundry

[@jonathanjollimore7156]

You normies are endlessly entertain