Man... Tough Times Ahead For Destiny, Bungie & The Community

[@Th3Jez]

of course the gameplay is ME DYING

[@willcoddington8874]

Optimal gameplay

[@JuddYT]

You have it way worse than bungie tbh

[@thechurchboyz6712]

Jez- “I’m tethering…..I’m dead”

[@GuardianOfTheFloodedFortress]

Cut to Datto scrolling through his gameplay trying to find the clips with jez dying the most

[@th3stainedrose]

Truly a Jeb moment

[@mattgibbia2692]

Missing a revenue target by that much only happens if the target was wildly inaccurate in the first place. That with the fact they just refused to listen to feedback shows how truly out of touch and unfit to lead the management team is

[@mat.b.]

the target was likely based on old projections before Lightfall bombed and drove off a huge chunk of the community that would normally pre-order every year

[@lithrandil290]

@@mat.b. Not even just that, from what I've seen they... also juiced those numbers up quite nicely for Sony ^^ (Which is terrible because in a vacuum, revenue projections are great! You have a number you can plan your expenditures around, while at the same time you can then afterwards check 'Oh we made far more! What did we do right?'/'Oh we made less, what did we do wrong?')

[@thedeltaagent6678]

Ngl I definitely believe that Lightfall was bad enough to kill community enthusiasm enough to miss even realistic expectations.

[@fotis3v480]

​@@lithrandil290too much inclusivity not enough following feedback. Like...90% of games nowadays.

[@Slackerzz-]

@@mat.b.the launch, the raid, the initial season, all bad, the only good part of lightfall was strand. Lightfall bombed many times over and drove fans away because it was so boring. Bungie thought just releasing something would bring in money, they forgot to make the content exciting and worthwhile.

[@mutantraze3681]

As disgusting as the layoffs were treated, its even worse how badly they were handed out. You dont give the 2 best music composers on your team the boot unless you’re giving up after final shape. There’s zero silver lining here

[@sirpr3ce855]

yeah im not sure if they threw them out because they thought they cost too much money and that they dont really need them anymore (bc bungie could probably live by just remixing existing songs by now) or if they really lay them off after "felt importance" but that they had to layoff so many people, that they even had to layoff those that had rank and names ( especially in the community) and im not sure which option would be the worse one

[@user-sd1xh3uu8r]

Salavatori is near retirement age. but yea it is scuffed

[@expressvpn8433]

It’s pretty much early retirement. He probably welcomed it

[@jacobchristian1849]

@@expressvpn8433he sent a message out implying at least that he was surprised to be let go, and saddened by it, so I don’t think that’s the case

[@selena8472]

@mutantraze3681 I just said it in another comment but there have been sooooo many games who tried to claim the title "Destiny killer" the funny and ironic thing about that???the true destiny killer?? will be *destiny!!!!!* I'd say how sad but I am so burnt out that even if final shape is the equivalent of chase into space (power rangers look up what's special about it) I am still likely to just kick out fomo and move on.

[@JohnDoe-yo5nd]

If it makes you feel better I haven’t played destiny in 3-4 years now and I am here at the end of your video listening to you talk about the state of destiny. You’re a great content creator, I’m sure the path will find you.

[@JohnDoe-yo5nd]

It’s been 6 years actually, 6 years without destiny and 6 years with datto

[@alexspencer5926]

Same. The last time I played Destiny seriously was quitting the last week before Beyond Light dropped. Told my clan lead, "Hey, I'm basically gone. Might reinstall 1 or 2 times a year, but otherwise, I'm out. Can't afford it and don't want to be beaten around the bush anymore. Bye." The last time I played at all was the Pirates season, where it was revealed that the Thingamajigs y'all were collecting were Nezarec's parts. Then the time Witch Queen was made free to play for a while, and when that little period ended, I decided to finally unlock Stasis, the hyped up subclass everyone finally got with Beyond Light and I had missed out on. I had lost the love and fun I felt playing this game, I couldn't even finish the 2nd mission AFTER saving Variks. Just couldn't. It felt more like a chore to get through the area than to play something like FF14 for its story or Ghost of Tsushima for its mechanics and visceral combat system. Back then, I realized the game, despite the lore and how willing they were to delve into it and the creators showing the secrets we never knew existed within, was gonna flop sometime. Just sad to see it do so like this after so long.

[@Matt-pf9xg]

Grinding D1 was best time of my life

[@Static_Eclipse]

Datto talking about the channel shift after the final shape reminds me exactly how the cod zombies community and creators felt and had to figure out after black ops 4 and the zombies story “ending” its chapter. I can’t imagine how difficult it is to figure out that shift and not be fearful of the future of your job and community.

[@derpyxn1nja]

You are exactly correct with that statement.

[@clax5699]

Cold war was so good, dear lord.

[@derpyxn1nja]

@clax5699 It was, but I think it's due to the original cast saying goodbye. That was a story that was built on for a good 10 years, similar to how Destiny is.

[@glacie3001]

I was literally thinking about that. I remember that shift, after the high of Bo3 and how low it got during Bo4. I’m feeling that all over again with Destiny rn.

[@wiiwaremania]

And zombies has never been the same ever since... I'm saddened we're seeing a similar parallel with Destiny as whole

[@Igneous_Hammer]

Ive sunk damn near 10 years into watching you. No matter what you put on this channel now, Im in it til the end. Do your variety, ma boi. We're with you

[@DefinitelyNotLars]

Same here Came for the content, stayed for the datto

[@Hangry_Sasquatch]

he wont sleep with you

[@DefinitelyNotLars]

@@Hangry_Sasquatch Uhhhhhhhh... Okay? Don't know why you might think that, but alright

[@jlllx]

all things come to an end eventually.

[@Miguel-xj5pg]

@@Hangry_SasquatchI’ll sleep with you

[@hexalot4357]

At one time a couple years ago, I was a die hard. Deep into the lore of the game and played pretty much everyday to an extent. Now I can’t even make it through the whole seasonal story without being bored. First time ever not preordering the big expansion so I’ll definitely be watching what happens in the background while I play other games but I really want things to turn around for the better.

[@methos4866]

Honestly we'll be better off just watching someone else play through it on YT or Twitch. Saves me some money and a whole lot of disappointment.

[@dividetc263]

Same. Used to grind Destiny hard a few years back, but the season model has really just killed me enjoyment with the game, I'd rather just be able to grind through the content in a month or so instead of being drip fed over the course of 3.

[@chaikovsky]

After being a long-term content creator for Destiny, I can imagine that the prospect of reworking your channel is pretty rough. But your Destiny content demonstrates the tremendous polish and skill you bring to KZbin production, and that will carry over into everything else you do in the future. Your cerebral, analytic approach to gameplay and “elitist,” skill-oriented tryhardery will flourish in other games too. What I’m saying is: you’re really good at your job, dude, and I’m locked in for whatever you do next.

[@jackthelucario]

2:08 This makes it feel like even more of a slap to the face of the music team. Bungie was basically like “Hey, thanks for recording your awesome music for us to use, gtfo.”

[@stealthhunter6998]

They did it to Marty in 2013 with D1 too but he was more relentless about it and even got into lawsuits n stuff. Probably an indication that the same higher ups from back then r still there.

[@phelan1201]

Rough times to be a Destiny player, worse times to be a Destiny dev

[@rarehearts5279]

It's always been rough

[@aersla1731]

To have been a Destiny dev.

[@HouseTre007]

I literately don’t care, I just want to play a GOOD game

[@andrewpauly4783]

​@@HouseTre007in this economy? Stressed dev = bad game.

[@Nutz_Deez]

​@andrewpauly4783 how would the economy effect game development? What do they have to be stressed for?

[@yelling3874]

I haven't played in a while but watching this happen has been devastating even from a distance. This community has been in my life for almost exactly 12 years. I really hope things get better, at least in the long term.

[@ajcat155]

It’s crazy to step back and realize that with the conclusion of Destiny’s main story, that most of my favorite content creators could lose most of their viewership. I’ve been watching Datto since D1 Taken King, and to hear that was really a shock.

[@GeremyG]

It’s kinda surreal that this game I’ve been playing since 2014 feels like it’s coming to an end. I knew it would happen eventually but not like this.

[@skarsgard1342]

so dramatic

[@aurockson2696]

@@skarsgard1342have you not seen the situation it’s In lol.

[@makaveliba4243]

@@skarsgard1342I mean 100+ people are jobless and something people have put a decade into is coming to an end

[@togudfru]

​@@skarsgard1342call it whatever you want, being laid off your job a month before the new year is pretty fucking dramatic.

[@joebk44]

@@makaveliba4243the fact anyone’s played this shit show of a game since it’s terrible launch and subsequent terrible dlcs after just shows people make terrible choices in their life. I stopped playing this trash ass game before the first raid ever even launched. Every time my friend talked to me into trying it again it was always still trash.

[@vikinggravey923]

Kinda funny how Bungie’s thought process was to fire devs because of lower amount of pre orders, but from these devs getting layed off will more than likely lower them even more, or if people have pre ordered final shape will more than likely cancel them(me included)

[@jasonagostini-green1657]

Yep, received my refund yesterday!

[@timhanna4700]

Canceled mine. Game has been a slog for a while. Haven't played a lick of Festival. It's all reworked reskinned weapons.

[@lucianholbrook3966]

I was waiting to pre order until we got a bit more info. This was all I needed to hear. No thanks ill pass

[@austah2150]

And canceled preorders because of the layoffs might just trigger another round of layoffs due to loss of revenue. Bungie and Destiny might be very different soon.

[@joebk44]

@@timhanna4700games been a slog since it’s launch in 2014. Not like it’s anything new.

[@ThePonceknight]

Anytime where you, mrs terv, and jeb are together, I binge on those times. Any content where you are just having a good time, or laughing til you almost can't breathe (don't die), I love that content. Hope you keep your head above the water and the hater sticks out of your bungholio

[@frobro5674]

I personally am excited to see more variety content on the channel. The people that like your channel like you and how you create content, not just because you cover destiny.

[@cuppy666]

One thing this entire experience has done for me is really make me not want to support marathon, I know the main issue is a higher ups problem and not on the devs actually making the game but the way this company is being managed just feels dirty and shouldn’t be rewarded with more of my money

[@pestyoverlord]

It's both. Your passing the buck. This is the same thing as "Bungie should leave Activision" fans pin everything on external forces and not the guys making insane weapon changes(etc.)🙄

[@dmajorray6154]

That's the correct approach if we somehow wanna make the execs suffer. Sadly the ones with the genuine vision must endure the brunt of things. But at the end of the day all our games can still come true with the same devs that wanted to, if it takes starving fat cats to do it then I'm all for it

[@awesomeguy9513]

Reportedly tarkov players that got to see/play marathon didn’t want to play it on release. When the people who play extraction shooters don’t wanna play your shooter there’s definitely an issue, to that I don’t see that many Destiny players interested in marathon so when fans of 1 game don’t wanna play your new game another issue

[@Kryptix]

I wouldn't say it's that dirty, it's a business and they had to do layoffs. They got 3 months pay. It's what it is.

[@jekmr84]

​@@Kryptixit's always dirty lol it's mostly about making money in excess. It's not like they need it to actually keep the company alive a lot of it is overinflation in salaries and bonuses of execs...

[@Retrophoenix-]

Tbh I am completely fine with a delay for the final shape if that's what it takes to make the game better. What stings the most for me though is that this was avoidable. This is a massive sign that the upper management at bungie desperately needs looking at and to have some form of accountability. These people in upper management saw projections were low, devs repeatedly asked to fix the game to win players back and get projections back up, upper management refuses all feedback and then decides to lay off people who really were trying to fix the problem in the first place. Imagine getting fired for trying to do your job.

[@jekmr84]

Happens alot. Happened to me at my old job. It's sad that you're management are idiots who don't actually care about the company just about their reign.

[@Tempest427]

The pursuit of money tends to cloud one's judgment. Especially a corporation, you lose sight of what made you, and what makes what you have good.

[@Thiccness_Is_Delicious]

Means the employees needed to do there job and make sure the game retained players which it dosent as for microtransactions that part was unavoidable unless your a whale like I am but then they banned my account cause of my username same here on youtube and once that happened my friend group shelved it permanently and decided to move onto warframe and you know what it's better then destiny you can do EVERY single piece of content without paying a dime just investing time and that puts destiny to shame in itself don't have to pay for story dlc or activity dlc just grind to unlock the quest to access the activity boom done.

[@lainwakura]

“Upper management needs to be held accountable” that’s cute 😂😂😂

[@stevemorris436]

Retro - I think it's more like they don't understand what a misstep Lightful was, didn't accept that it was a misstep, and never addressed it - didn't rethink their Final Shape projection. It's an accountability issue for sure.

[@MattTheHuman9]

Shadowkeep being free would actually be a decent way to onboard new players since it's the first time we commune with the Pyramids and technically the first time we interact with the Witness.

[@Marcanine]

Just a theory but I believe the content cut from the game was done so they could add some new texture and foliage and then re-release it as seasonal content as a way to avoid having to build things from scratch. I don’t believe all that was said about the DCV and “sunsetting” bs, especially since so much of that content came back, including many weapons and locations.

[@RobbieB2606]

This whole situation feels like a nightmare

[@LukeH1989]

Its a part of life!! People lose jobs sadly and they get on with it and find new jobs! “One door closes, yet another one opens”

[@TJW-YT]

This response, much like all these videos is so overstated. People got laid off, it’s a shame for those people, but it’s also a reality of any like of work but especially one so competitive. “Vote with your wallets, don’t pre order” and “if you’re burnt out take a break” were two of the most common lines of advice most of these content creators were dishing out. Now that there’s consequences to low pre order numbers and player engagement it’s a problem? People need to grow up.

[@gleebybooer]

@@ProRabbits I mean those people lost their “real life” jobs. This isn’t a situation where “touching grass” is gonna get their job back. Thats retarded

[@Ethanlikewhat]

Lol y’all need go outside there’s more to life then destiny 2

[@QuandaleDingle001]

@@ProRabbitshow about you go outside too instead living in this bloody nightmare

[@sillyskater2]

As someone who deals with business management, this is a tough situation for the company, employees, and the customers. But an interesting thing around this situation is a meme that Destiny became because of the lack of content in the early days, “it’s about the friends we made along the way”. Morale is going to be astonishing low for employees that survived the layoffs and the customers that have stuck with the brand/game. Customers are going to stick with those laid off and Bungie becomes the bad guys (which they are, leadership could have made corrections before all this even with inflated projections). The community isn’t going to preorder The Final Shape, content creators are going to turn on Bungie (already happening), and players are going to spend time/money elsewhere. Making corrections now will take a lot to get veterans back, then content creators, then core players, with having to reach general audiences being the biggest challenge for Destiny in recent years. Marathon is going to come out fighting an uphill battle.

[@NeisanMo.]

Well said comment.

[@brown-eyedcheese5440]

greed, greed, greed

[@leftwardglobe1643]

I think a lot of this also lies on the economy right now. Or at least, where people think it'll be by next year. Bungie's made a lot of bad decisions that they should have corrected sooner, and there's a lot of criticism they've gotten over the past four years or so, some deserved, some not, but it's also just harder and harder for a lot of people to justify buying games in general these days, especially with a recession on the horizon. I'm committed and I'm struggling to myself. Not to mention factors outside anyone's control that severely impacted player numbers recently, making a bad situation look worse than it was. Like the DDOS attacks that scared people away for most of last month. Back to the layoffs, if this were just Bungie, I'd believe that this is mostly their fault, but Bungie weren't the only major company in the industry to start doing this this month, and there are some good reasons for that. I don't think it's greed as much as desperation right now. This is just thunder.

[@RawbDawggin]

I just wanna say, Datto I will support you, and the Destiny content creators at large, in any other forms of content on your primary channels instead of just Destiny 2. You have a great personality and interesting fair perspective on matters with entertaining content and that’ll keep us coming back. I haven’t played any of Season of the Witch and at this point I have no plans of coming back, I really don’t blame you guys if you wanna abandon ship on Destiny 2. Bungie’s highest influential executives collectively are making themselves on how this impatient corruption has completely rotten the video game industry as a whole, as well as other mediums.

[@ARavingLobster]

Bungie has a board of directors, they are at the very top. Additionally ever since Parsons took over as COE from the previous President (before D1 came out) there has been a notable shift in Bungie's internal philosophy. It started prior to D1 launching with the firing of Joseph Staten and continued with the firing of Marty O'Donnell (both of whom were considered founding members of Bungie) It has never gone back to how it was before that time period, it has only, slowly, gotten worse over time.

[@darthstronius]

I personally love seeing things like the old golf videos or TTT, or just other group based stuff from you. As for destiny, I've already been having my own problems mentally, and now with one of my favorite games that I've met so many good friends, it's honestly depressing. I want to see the story through, but it's hard to justify it. I'm barely playing as is, and one of my best friends has already canceled his preorder and unistalled. Things are bleak, I just want to see things get better

[@midward.tentacles]

it’s still a great game and i’m sure they will figure it out! the backlash from all of this has been VERY loud so i’m sure they’ve heard it. whether or not they implement any of the feedback is another thing entirely, but i hope they do. praying for all those who lost their jobs and for patience and wisdom for ALL parties involved!! have a great day everyone

[@luninariate]

Hey, I’ve been there too, if you need a new game to feel passionate about and cared for that continually gets new content with great player expression, I highly recommend playing ffxiv, it’s got a free trial, with unlimited play time and access to the base game and all content from the first two expansions only catch is a in game money limit (think glimmer) and you can’t send messages in game. The game helped me a lot when I was in a rut with destiny, so I’d highly recommend giving it a try

[@TheFirstCurse1]

​​@@midward.tentaclesIt's not a great game though, and it hasn't been for a long time. It's a constantly sinking ship that's actively against the player and stressful to play. Everyone (or apparently ALMOST everyone) knows this. They knew how it was going to end. Anyone disagreeing was just in denial. It won't get better. It'll end horribly and be even more disdained than it already is.

[@CuriousLumenwood]

Man it’s crazy that no one in upper, upper management got shafted. Totally wild that the CEO still has his job despite his company underperforming. You’d think that the guy supposedly running everything, y’know being the chief executive officer, would be the one taking full responsibility. Almost like CEO’s don’t do anything important except steal money.

[@bobross8585]

Straight up

[@eliaspanayi3465]

Yeah you would think the highest paid managers who made poor decisions would be the first to go, being at fault for the current state of the game

[@aaronfreeman8252]

As a raging capitalist, I agree

[@eliaspanayi3465]

@@aaronfreeman8252 the people who screwed up, who happen to be paid a lot of money, are the real people they needed to fire to be profitable. The reality is all they have done is lay off the people who diddnt actually cause the problems bungle has

[@ajeenius7437]

This is what pisses me off the most. The cunts in the suits essentially just shoved the consequences of their actions onto the people who actually tried their hardest to prevent this from happening. The fact that the CEO retains his chair and that the people who caused the issues to begin with are still there is the reason I have zero hope for the future of Destiny or Bungie for that matter...

[@NanoUchia]

I remember the first time i watched Datto. I don't remember the video but all i remembered was this guy sitting on a sofa chair in is apartment and listening to him talk about Destiny 1 exotic walkthroughs. Might have been for the swords. At that moment i subbed and never looked back. Admired all the content since then, being introduced to all the other content creators too, Fruit, Jez, Aztec, Vanguard, Kackis, and so many more. We've been through this hellish 10 year journey, lets see it til the end

[@zephyr3053]

I'm here for Datto, and regardless of what your content shift is I'll still be lurking in streams or watching the vids. Hope everything works out for you wherever you decide to pivot.

[@ApieceofWoods]

This whole event is very similar to what happened to 343 at the beginning of the year. 343 employees got laid off, but the upper management was a huge issues and was mainly responsible for how Infinite launched. Once those layoffs happened, there was also a giant restructuring of the company that saw many of those problematic leaders resign or move to other companies. Since that happened, Infinite has been consistently getting better every single season. It still needs work, but they have actively listened to feedback and are slowly giving players what they've been asking for since launch. They're even reworking the entire netcode of the game to help prevent desync which has plagued many players during matches. Desync was there in the first place because of the higher ups rushing the game out at launch in a broken state. Bungie is going to suffer a lot more if the higher ups aren't switched or moved in some capacity. They are out of touch and the game, and community is now going to suffer more before something seriously needs to be done.

[@deriznohappehquite]

Destiny itself is getting laid off.

[@deriznohappehquite]

I feel like I always see Destiny players “we need more content to save Destiny!” To upper management, that just means “we need ever increasing investment in order to maintain the same revenue. Destiny is a dying cash cow”.

[@Spartan-sz7km]

Yeah. It fucking pains me as a long time halo fan, who went to destiny to scratch that halo itch after 343i took over and theirs games were lack luster, and then gave halo infinite a shot. Fucking sucks this happens to two game franchises i love

[@benpoke]

Halo infinite still has no progression and strict sbmm. It's never gonna be good unless they rework their structure.

[@ApieceofWoods]

@@benpoke They added ranks with progression as well as a max rank reward over the last few seasons since S3 started

[@Swiftstorm86]

I don't comment super often, but I do want to throw in my support for the channel here Datto. Been here since the golden chest videos, through all the "dead game" moments. Will still be here for YOUR content no matter what it's on. Obviously I don't have your behind the scenes numbers, but there'll be support from the audience no matter what you do. Your variety stuff has always been great in the past, and honestly I'm looking forward to more of it! In these times that Destiny is in a lull, I'm more likely to watch your variety than Destiny content even.

[@TDTProductions]

As strange as it sounds, it’s extremely comforting to hear that you are struggling to keep viewers like we are. It’s really easy to confuse a poor performance as you doing something wrong so knowing it’s not a unique problem relieves me a bit… as for collabs… you want to do a spicy clips? (Listen, I never stop hustling lol)

[@massivedamage5677]

You and the other creators are part of the problem -- continuously giving the game attention when it doesn't deserve it. One small trailer for the next expansion and your tune completely changes... every. single. time. You and the others have become complete paper cut outs; so 1 dimensional that it's effortless to predict your next piece of content or commentary. I challenge you to put this game down till June and try something else. Relieve yourself of these shackles and detox yourself from the indoctrination you've self inflicted. By continuing to make regular content on this hot mess you are only showing them the product is adequate and playable.

[@TDTProductions]

@@massivedamage5677 you do realize you are asking us to quit our job right? How would you feel if someone told you to do the same? Do you think its possible that content creators are also people the like the game and WANT the game to do well for all parties involved? Do you turn a blind eye to all the negative feedback we give Bungie when the games in a garbage place? Or... do you want something/someone to blame to make sense of the world and we just happen to be the easiest target?

[@massivedamage5677]

@@TDTProductions No, I'm not telling you to quit.. I'm challenging you to expand past Destiny. How far has the negative feedback gotten us? Not very far at all if player count is at some of the lowest its ever been. I ALSO want the game to be good! I've been here since D1 beta and have given feedback continuously through surveys, leaving comments, etc but enough is enough man -- its mostly just false promises on their part. I firmly believe ppl gravitate towards YT personalities more than they do the d2 content itself (which is just copied by everyone else). Live your life the way you want but I think it's a bit naive to think you can coast along by milking just D2. If there was any time to expand beyond your (and everyone elses) comfort zone, this would be the time.

[@robinmons]

Honestly as someone who has watched datto sinds the taken king, it really hurt to hear him talk about the end and new content at the end. Like the end of an era is here, and if the final shape is not a 12/10 expansion then its probably gonna end. What ever happens in the future, its been a pleasure watching you datto

[@VladShpiro]

As a fan of both Datto and FPS podcast, I’m excited as an overload minotaur

[@nicholasfpayne]

The whole diffusion of accountability with the infamous “upper management” is very much by design. They almost never put a name or a face on the decisions that tank a company so that they can dodge accountability and eventually quietly shuffle out to fail upwards to a higher paying job somewhere else. It’s truly an epidemic in almost every industry right now.

[@vaapaad1]

Small note, and not really related to the topic of the video, but I appreciate that you mention that the video portion of the video will be random footage not related to the content and saying jsut put it up in the background. It's an appreciated touch. Thanks

[@vaquri]

I gotta say my favorite part of your channel is when your personality shines through the scripts haha. You're very funny and entertaining regardless, would watch whatever you upload

[@MeowNMH]

@7:00 "At this point, i don't know what it would take for Destiny to overcome a barrier like that." I'd recommend a Wishender or Arbalest.

[@bepisaxe4464]

This was a pretty good one, ngl.

[@rockyowitz]

I dont know if this helps, but I feel like I'm not alone in expressing that for folks like you, Travel Danielle, and Jez, I'm following y'all for your personalities and what y'all bring to a game you three enjoy (truly or begrudgingly) rather than what a game brings to y'all. I can't speak to numbers (which is what is needed at the end of the day), but the content I stick around with on KZbin now and watch from beginning to end (and even revisit on bad days) are videos where friends have fun playing games they like. I hope if TFS and Destiny 2 flops that you (and others) can find a game you can pour the analytical part of your brains into. I tried tons of builds, even if not my playstyle, thanks to your videos. But hopefully until that new game comes around, things like golf game with friends or things you enjoy are going to keep having me come back. Same with Myelin and others I follow. As for TFS, completely agree with your sentiment. If folks want to finish the saga or even beyond that, totally understand. If folks drop it forever, absolutely can understand that.

[@christianfender4734]

Same. They're Destiny cooking vid is one of my favorites, and that's what I feel like all successful youtube channels eventually become: a brand marketing around the personality rather than a specific type of content. I have a content creator for Yugioh that I now watch as much for his videos on weird twitter posts than the shit related to the game. Because he as an individual is entertaining. Same with Datto and the gang.

[@urazz7739]

It's why some like Aztecross and Datto have been doing content other than Destiny 2 for awhile now. I think WoW crashing down in the Shadowlands expansion gave some streamers/youtubers a kick in the butt to get them to play more than just one game so they aren't screwed if their main game collapses.

[@accidentalronin]

Good luck everybody hope everyone is doing okay right now.

[@craigbernthal7388]

I figure, there are so many great things to do with that scarce resource-time-that what happens with Bungie isn’t that important, at least to me. I’ve never been upset about the state of Bungie and am not upset now. I preordered the expansion and will play it out, and will probably enjoy the game for my usual hour a day until the expansion comes out. Then I’ll go on to something else.

[@funny7]

100% spot on with the pricing. It’s madness how they don’t change this.

[@omelonmano3203]

I love how Datto managed to put into words how I’m feeling about destiny. Right now I’m preparing for the worst hoping for the best.

[@McNasty43]

Same here. I think that the actual impact to the workforce shouldn't be TOO catastrophic. It sounds like they took a number of people from each department in order to spread out and minimize the damage to productivity. From a business standpoint, losing 100 out of 1200 people spread across 15-20 departments isn't catastrophic. I'm not trying to sound cynical or anything, just being realistic. My heart does go out to the staff that were fired. Here's hoping that Bungie brand cache is still worth something so they can bounce back quickly.

[@jlllx]

it's been the worst since d2 launch

[@Ferinex_666]

I'm only here for Destiny content, but I will and do gladly play your videos in the background on silent even if I'm not interested in them, just to give you the views because you're one of the most reasonable voices in this scene.

[@migueldevera5080]

You'll retain my viewership regardless of Destiny content - your personality and vibes with others are immaculate. However I will admit I like the 'optimal' brand you've got - talking about the best rolls and guides and stuff. As someone who also likes optimizing performance in games it would be nice if you manage to find a way to keep that schtick going.

[@zdude0127]

Datto no matter what happens, I will be sticking around. You have been absolutely fantastic with all content you have put out. Whether it's Destiny, TTT, Mario 64, you constantly have been doing a fantastic job. Thanks for all the entertainment you have provided all these years man!

[@jravee5994]

"we didn't get enough pre-orders for the new expansion so we might fire you" the last ounce of respect i had for bungie has withered away into the soil.

[@Ferinex_666]

The only way these layoffs could have worked is if they laid off upper management and promoted senior devs to those positions. Not all devs make great managers, but they can't be any worse than the current upper management that didn't suffer any of the consequences of their own actions.

[@drpotato830]

Bobby Kotick : I rise to the top by stepping my employees head's. Pete Parsons : *Hold my 3.6 Billion*

[@Raccoonaphobic]

Been here as long as I can remember and will continue to be here long after. Destiny has been a huge part of my adulting life, as has videos like yours. Here for the long run, lots of love to everyone involved, staff and the content creators.

[@WolvzReign]

Would love to see more of you having fun with any game you choose, and I loved the SM64 runs. Here for you, especially if there's passion and fun to be had.

[@KnowPein14]

As an idea, I'd like to see You, Jez and Danielle go on adventures through other longer-ish games like Diablo or Baldurs Gate

[@sirpr3ce855]

yeah i get that they dont always have time, but imo stuff with those 3 together is really my favorite by far

[@PainGumbo]

Sounds great, but definitely NOT diablo lol You dont go from a dying game to a terminally ill one xD

[@izanami2550]

17:33 the witness was inspired by bungies upper management 😭

[@crayonconsumer69]

This is definitely scary, I've been here since taken king, I grew up with this game and I'd hate more than anything for the game to, as you said "go out with a whimper" after so much. I personally feel that my expectations were appropriately set to enjoy the Final shape but now I'm not sure. The Arm chair business man in me thinks that layoffs just weren't an option in the past because they weren't owned by a missive company and would have had to directly make the game better to survive. A younger me would have gone the "cancel your preorder, boycott the game" rout but after 9 long years come hell or high water my $100 is locked in, the investment fallacy is way way to sunk in at this point. Looking through my crystal ball I expect final shape to be a disappointment in some ways and I'm waiting just for the IHE video to inevitably come out with an "I told you so".

[@aileenginger3287]

I love taken king. It's so memorable

[@calebquinn6053]

I think my favorite videos from you are you playing with Jez and Danielle. Pve co-op games are becoming a bit of a rarity but I think there are plenty for you guys to jump into together, maybe short video series of learning a game together? Sea of thieves is obviously a crowded space but we watch for you guys, and I’d love to see you learn the game together. Deep rock galactic? Shoot do some party games, ultimate chicken horse?

[@TJofthePJs]

Well said all around Datto. You are an amazing content creator and I'll be sticking around for whatever you do. Best of luck to you and the other creators in this tumultuous time.

[@xanderk3257]

I think the low play in September and October might have been because of the DDOS attacks. they were super common and irritating. they were also targeting peak hours.

[@wareagle884]

I stopped playing D2 a long time ago and don’t have any plans to return, but it still makes me feel immensely sad to see what has happened to it. Destiny is like that friend or family member that you know is capable of so much more if they could just get their act together. Yet, no matter how much you encourage them and try to help them, they just never seem to be able to realize their own potential.

[@ClancyTwoThirtyEight]

I love this game. I don’t want to see it die like this. I love this channel. I’ll keep watching it because I love Datto and the extended friends and family that come on it from time to time. I’ve had this feeling of a black maw in my stomach ever since this situation started unfolding. It really sucks and I hate the fact that it was completely avoidable. Datto, I’d definitely like to see Let’s Play supercuts similar to what RTGame does where you play a game on stream and upload the whole thing cut to show the important bits. That’s just a spitball idea though, just a suggestion on something you could try for variety content. Would love to see you play games with live commentary bc I love your personality (that’s also another spitball idea, just a suggestion).

[@danielhoward9729]

I mentioned this in one of Byf's videos already, and I'll state it again: I don't understand how Bungie thinks they can squeeze in another season before Final Shape. And now we have delays that should be unsurprising. Ambition must be tempered with wisdom and Bungie has a history of not learning from it's mistakes. I'm a long time fan, ever since Halo, and I've been riding along side this trainwreck just stunned at how long it's gone on for. So much potential just wasted.

[@carbon_wavelight]

Yeah lightfall kinda hurt to play through and I regretted spending money on it. I haven’t bought a season or even played since then. It’s weird to be here, as a person who played every day during forsaken and the first three seasons. it’s just disappointing to see where the story has gone. It’s probably good for some people, it’s just not for me.

[@JDonaldBin]

i think it's important to remember when asking yourself how you feel about spending money on destiny that this happened because of bungie higher-ups setting unreasonable targets. no bungie devs have, as of writing, called for a boycott of the game. as of right now the sentiment is very much that that can only make things worse within the company. be vocal, make yourself heard to those making these projections and targets at bungie. if you wanna buy final shape, buy final shape, but be cautious with your refunds, as it won't help those who've lost their jobs.

[@QuandaleDingle001]

I feel proud that I spend on a discount at least or else I would be overwhelmed by the original price you know what I’m mean by that?

[@mariofranco1725]

i refunded dont think ill play again there is no point in it bungie is just dumb the final shape is going to be garbage

[@QuandaleDingle001]

@@mariofranco1725 yea I be bloody disappointed

[@tomdelongjohns]

yes! a huge part of targeted direct action (which is what boycotts are) is listening to those close to the issue at hand and following their lead. until bungie employees (former or current) specifically call for a boycott, boycotts are useless at best and harmful at worst.

[@ShirleyTimple]

​@@tomdelongjohnsyou're fully endorsing bungie's bad behavior by giving them money. You're actively rewarding them for it.

[@stichhavoc88]

Sorry dude but D2 as much as I love it has been WAY WAY past its expiration date for some time now. No expansion is going to fix that nor bring back the numbers they need

[@deriznohappehquite]

Yeah, IMO, that’s what this was about. They’re canning Destiny. TFS is going to be the last expansion. They fired everyone who was going to make future expansions and maintain the game.

[@nemesisthecenturion3600]

You could really feel some pain in Datto's voice towards the end. I'll keep watching anytime! As a recommendation, watching you and the gang play Among Us while it was silly, I really liked it. I'd love to see maybe a bunch of the Destiny Creators as a whole band together and do things. Experiment with new games.

[@TheChrisPCritter]

Bungie is a corporation owned by a larger corporation. Why is any of this surprising? There is no loyalty. There is no community. There is only stock price, and shareholder return. That's it. Yes, we feel bad. No, it won't change because we feel bad. The money must flow and no matter how you feel or what you do; you, your family and your children are always going to be secondary.

[@omegaprime223]

They're already hiring to refill the senior positions they culled, look at their webpage. I cannot imagine this was anything BUT a cost-cutting measure, they got rid of expensive vets are are paying fractions for new 'senior' employees, we're talking 88k a year vs the hundreds of thousands a year those kinds of positions used to command.

[@BoisegangGaming]

Ah, the good ol' "but I can't decrease my salary, I'm the ceo, but I can cut costs by firing someone important and getting a cheaper replacement"

[@austinsutton27]

My plan for destiny has always been drastic. They should make each enemy faction playable in certain areas and missions in the game. Imagine playing as a fallen enemy crawling on walls and slinging dual wield swords and shrapnel cannons. Imagine playing as a Cabal Colossus jetting around and shooting pulsing canon shots at the hive while taking back Torobatl.. I truly believe the future of destiny should be about taking advantage of the universe they've created in every way, including a war mode PvP including each enemy faction. Am I wrong or is that not the way forward?

[@sparrow-]

This idea is too fun just keep charging 100 dollars per awful dlc

[@rockyowitz]

This was kind of my hope for beyond TFS or Destiny 3. I feel like we never got "a new enemy faction" because we were still stuck in either our solar system or whatever dimension The Nine are in. Now that we have Cabal and Eliksni allies, I hoped we'd be able to play as them (with or without the Light) or at least we'd have new enemy factions to face. Definitely a pipedream of mine, but i always thought it'd be neat

[@matthewbianchi318]

Love you too, bud. Thanks for the shoutout. 💔

[@Kruciate]

Datto, you are reloading like a COD player in this entire clip. Jez just trying to breathe. On a more serious note, I totally agree that shedding light on the ones effected by this whole thing is a better direction to go than looking for a best bet on how to show your anger. Lives are being changed, and not in a good way. My father went through something similar when I was a kid, and it was obvious that it was devastating to him. I really hope things turn around for the better, for the folks that need it.

[@MandrewTheFrog]

The suits at Bungie have really done it this time. This was the final straw to stop supporting Bungie by playing or buying any of the products in any capacity, it's absolutely disgusting the treatment they gave to the employees that were laid off and I will not be gaslit into believing that it is my fault as a consumer that dev's lost their jobs. Recently Datto, I have been much more enjoying your variety content and that is what I will continue to watch such videos and streams.

[@robmarney]

The amount and price of SKUs for Destiny is insane. The Forsaken Pack should be $0, the Legacy Pack should be $30, 30th Anniversary should be $10, and all the individual DLCs should disappear.

[@PunkChef77]

This was the first main Destiny KZbin channel I followed back in D1.

[@my_username_was_already_taken]

I've been watching your content since D1, but there's definitely periods of time when I drop D2 for a few months, or even up to a year, and I also don't watch any D2 content during that time. I fell off of this season after the third week or so (I actually was really enjoying the season, but fatigue just hit me and I had to play other things) so I haven't been watching any Destiny videos for the past few months, so naturally my personal algo kinda subdues the destiny content creators. Your suika game vid managed to pop up though and I wanted to see what the game was, and it was genuinely a really funny/entertaining video (and got me to also download it lol), and I was excited to see that you posted a second one. You've got great humor and its great to see that come out during other games, because like you mentioned in a stream the other day, when you play destiny you're more like an encyclopedia, or its like professor Datto. You're great for information but sometimes I like the Datto that drops a "You can't scissor your buttholes together, it's just ergonomically not possible." Bro I laughed out loud to that. But it made me realize that I actually miss watching you for content, not just D2. So I've gone back to start watching your Elden Ring vods, maybe your MHW vods again (would love to see you play through MH Rise), your Suika vod, etc. I'm really looking forward to your variety content, especially with smaller indie games (if you've never played Baba is You before, I think you would enjoy getting some brain wrinkles from that one). Inscryption is one of the best games I've played the past few years. Outer Wilds is one of the best games I've played of all time, and really changed how I view games. We Were Here is a fun/funny short asymmetric puzzle game that resembles reading brand new raid symbol callouts. Portal games if you havent played them There's so many games that I would honestly pay to watch you play, and I'm sure there's plenty of other people that feel the same way. You're more than just a D2 FAQ, and nows a good of a time as any to really explore that 🤍

[@dmajorray6154]

The only thing they can add to final shape with the 3 new supers is definitely a final darkness subclass.

[@Braudnefr]

Dude, i want it to happen BADLY, but i feel we are coping so much for this to happen.. The overdelivery thing just keeps popping up in my head whenever I see people saying such amazing ideas which could be implemented..

[@dmajorray6154]

@Braudnefr nah its certainly planned. The 3 supers for final shape, and the unnamed year AFTER was gonna have it. It would fit the every other yearly expansion gave us darkness theme. But now they are PRESSURED. if they basically don't give us the next two yearly dlcs content in one they will not make the profit margins to make it back I 1000% believe that. We might get two fucking raids. Two dungeons. A lot of shit. But that's if they really pick up that weight. In my opinion that's the only acceptable product we as a community should stand for

[@dmajorray6154]

@Braudnefr and I really want that shit too man if it's red how it's been theorized I can only hope it does dope shit cause it's gonna look so awesome

[@talialevi2723]

I will also say this: some coders, artists, and QA definitely got laid off, but a huge part of the layoffs were people who are public faces, community management, etc. In other words, gameplay itself probably wont change much

[@MrTmm97]

Having a delay while laying off employees will not make for a better game/product. If you want to make a better product you keep the same amount of staff or even more staff for additional time. Less staff for more time is only going to result in an equal product that they would’ve gotten before the changes or worse.

[@pauls7412]

Paying to celebrate 30 years was the beginning for me, then paying extra for dungeons was the end. I will get the final expansion but that is it.

[@bigtom7351]

As someone who started with the franchise with the D2 Pc port, Destiny was a game I thoroughly enjoyed. It had an amazing feel and immersion into a world with a story that made you want to know more with how little they gave you. Bread crumb style. It even had the feel of waiting for your favorite show to come on next week with an expansion release to get more story. However, that died. Once a year we got a major content release via an expansion, but it ended up being content you could consume in a month or two as a casual. Then there's seasons. This is my major issue. Seasons killed the game. They're dull, repetitive, droning content that involved the same mechanics spun a different way seemingly never meshing with the overarching story of the expansion. My final point is the bringing back of old content then again HAD NOTHING to do with the current story line. It was an obvious "battle passes work for other games" mentality then ruined all immersion, and we were left with the mechanical aspects of the game being the only thing involved. My blame? Upper management not ever paying attention to the nonsense they were pushing, but also the player base. The old D1 players constantly nagging for old content that new players felt no attachment to. It didn't attach into the current story, and the game started to feel like it was on repeat every season. It just looked different. I loved D2, but it killed itself.

[@deriznohappehquite]

My question is, what would Bungie need to do to actually get it to the point where it’s good enough for the community?

[@MrSparky107]

So much of what has kept this game going has been love for Bungie and good will toward the community. That's why it feels so bad. There is no good will in this.

[@Ceece20]

Maybe Destiny 2 should focus on trying to get new players into the game. Maybe start by simplifying the purchasing process. Or by having stuff from previous expansions automatically available instead of being time gated for weeks and months like Stasis. Or having a proper looking for group system so new players can enjoy the endgame without having to know someone. Or just cleaning up all the left over systems and mechanics from previous expansions that make is incredibly confusing to play through. Or have a proper new light path where the player needs to go through the expansions in order, unlocking everything in previous expansions quickly without the need to grind.

[@Y.AG.123AFG]

They put michael salvatori in the content vault too...great

[@khora3845]

I ended a friendship because they said that the employees deserved to get laid off, including Salvatori and Lewin because of Lightfall

[@idonemessedupaaron]

A friend can have an opinion that opposes yours. I’m assuming you have no personal investment with the group that was laid off either.

[@omensoffate]

You ended a friendship because someone has a different opinion?

[@omensoffate]

Oh I see your avatar. Makes sense

[@jackiepaper3974]

Sounds like you guys weren't really friends

[@3ndlessL00p]

Good on you. That's a very unempathetic take to the people laid off. And very weird to say the composers deserved it, one of the few things that have always been top-tier in Destiny is the music ffs.

[@UncleBalthasarGelt]

This is a result of you defending Bungie for years.

[@crimsonskies391]

My biggest issue is buying this DLC just tells the upper management "we can do what we want and they will still buy it"

[@itsnoblesse]

I think the insane amount of layoffs in the industry this year shows how important it is that workers in the industry unionise, strong unions to combat that nebulous blob of 'upper management'.

[@jamesloh987]

I’m really curious what early feedback was for Lightfall. Was Bungie completely caught off guard by the negative player reception?

[@tommysagemar]

The frustration coming through is just heartbreaking and I fell ya on that. I'm super frustrated and sad and I'll play final shape and then we'll se

[@garagegames2555]

Them firing Salvatori basically confirms to me they have no future plans for destiny post final shape

[@shadowphoenix68]

Datto to be honest I started watching you because of @Th3Jez and his first collab with but I've grown to love you and your humor. I'm with you whether you cover another game or even if you become a paint drying channel. Much love and hope things look better for you

[@DUKEzors]

I got my notice a few days before the Bungie folks. Same reasons that were the result of the same apathetic approach of leadership. Hoping everyone finds a fitting next phase as I'm also figuring it out.

[@ronpagep6234]

Brother I watch guides for a game I don’t play. I watch for you. Do what you want, I’m here for it.

[@JoeyCarries]

Been year since d1 release and I’ll remain here till this channel no longer exists, much love man

[@J0EB0B555]

The thing about this kind of game is its really hard to get players back once they leave. You have to get their whole fireteam back, or you don't get any of them, at least not for long.

[@bencarlson4300]

Bungie’s situation reminds me a lot of Disney’s situation in the movies and tv industry: corporate execs overworking employees for quantity over quality in pursuit of short term greed, and then once customers stop paying for repetitive, never ending content then employees start getting fired and execs freak out that their grift stopped working. Both companies now also have the problem that they can’t course correct soon enough to change their upcoming slate of content because they’ve been in development for years at this point. The Marvels is expected to be a big loss for Disney with very poor pre-sales, and Final Shape is underperforming in preorder numbers.

[@Milkchocalty]

Board of directors is likely the genesis of the issue, maybe even shareholders as well.

[@processedsoy]

YOU'RE GONNA BE ON FPS PODCAST!!?! Oh my gosh I am so excited! Thanks for taking the time to write all your thoughts down and for addressing all of this. Can't be fun for you, but it is much appreciated.

[@giverofharmony5491]

Datto, a bunch of us as your viewers are definitely interested in the variety stuff, I think you're a cool and funny guy, I enjoy your content, and personally I plan on sticking around. If that means anything from a random commenter lol. I've been a fan for a while, and I look forward to whatever you're gonna be trying.

[@nnjasmurf600]

I play once a week. I do th e weekly stuff and missions for the season then move on to other games. Season missions end to quickly leaving you with a basic routine.

[@MrLongshotbob]

If the good ideas they stopped were QoL or systems we use forever in the game as opposed to seasonal content, I don't see the reason they couldn't deliver. I'd still love to watch a full video on the GDC thing.

[@allenoliver5119]

I know there's more important topics in this video but the barrier to entry for new players is insane! About 6 months ago my daughter was interested in starting but I had such a hard time figuring out what she actually needed to be able to really play the game (and I've played since House of Wolves). In then end, we gave up because it looked like it was going to cost us something like $200 but even then we weren't sure. That's around the time I stopped playing as well. We have since enjoyed multiple great games like Tears of the Kingdom instead.

[@ChristopherSadlowski]

Have you all looked into Warframe? It's nothing like Destiny, but it can reasonably be played fully for free if you're both willing to do a little item trading. The main draw is collecting all the robot guys/gals and weapons, and they can all be farmed for free through various activities. Again, it's nowhere near Destiny on multiple fronts, but it might be an acceptable substitute if your daughter wants a looter shooter that's fun and laid back. Just be forewarned that you do need to spend premium currency to buy slots to hold all your robots and weapons and little companion dudes. A few free ones are given out a handful of times a year but not at a speed that'll be helpful. Again, if you do some trading one day a week you should be able to bag enough to expand your arsenal with little friction. Or you could just drop the 5 or ten bucks a month in your early playtime if you don't want to wait. I tried Destiny 2 when it supposedly went "free to play" and I was annoyed it was actually "free to try". The cost to get the story and, well, everything was mind-blowing. I bounced pretty hard once I figured that out. At least Warframe gives all the story content for free and almost everything is kept in game; some very minor events have been one and done but they're absolutely not needed for you to understand what the main plot points are. Destiny 2 was just...baffling in more ways than one.

[@allenoliver5119]

@@ChristopherSadlowski Tried it a while back and had trouble getting into it. Not a problem with the game itself, more that I didn't have friends playing it (like I did Destiny still) and that it just wasn't Destiny. I probably would have enjoyed it if I was playing it with others though. As my friends started to move on last year, I decided to take a break and have been enjoying a backlog of great games I hadn't got around to playing because as a father and homeowner I barely had enough time to keep up with Destiny alone, much less play other games. Meanwhile, I've really enjoyed games like Ghost of Tsushima, Tears of the Kingdom, Cyberpunk 2077, and now Baldur's Gate 3. This is the first time I haven't pre-ordered but if my friends come back for The Final Shape, I probably will as well just for some closure and nostalgia for a journey we all started back in D1. Thanks for the suggestion on Warframe though, I might have to give it another shot at some point.

[@itgetsdajobdone]

I'm here for the variety stuff. You're such a talented and entertaining individual. Much love, Datto ❤