Marathon Review

[@MandaloreGaming]

Get the Marathon Trilogy FREE - alephone.lhowon.org/ (also now on Steam) THE LIST - docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1_K3ziSxT9zcUUGCddS4sF1uNJTWHSbOwB1CQX2Rx4Uo It's been a brain melting few months and Marathon was just the extra spice I needed.

[@vintheguy]

Finally, the list is back

[@saibot1246]

I heard that recon armor of halo 3 came from Marathon it is true ?

[@luisfuentes3846]

Just made my day

[@arri9507]

Yo mandy whats the music you used at 9:30?

[@TZAR_POTATO]

i will wait years if it means you cover mechwarrior 4, bk, mercs

[@user-bl6oj1hl8i]

There's a mission in Halo 1 where, if you start shooting friendlies, it results in a game over where Cortana says "He's gone rampant!". That takes on different vibes now that I've watched this.

[@DanielRodriguez-vf2sk]

the marines sometimes will say "thank god, it's you" in the exact same tone like the replicant bobs

[@GoredonTheDestroyer]

Literally the first mission of the game lol

[@KopperNeoman]

Back when Halo was planned as part of the Marathon canon. (That's likely also why the Forerunners were made into aliens)

[@harrietr.5073]

​@@KopperNeoman I still wish we saw a Forerunner in the original cannon rather than the post-Marathon cannon or just in the original design sketches.

[@SecuR0M]

@@KopperNeoman This was never the case. It was a common fanon theory until like 2006 though. The original Forerunners were ancient Humanity. I'm not sure Halo had any real plans as part of the Marathon canon in any sense, at any point, ever, and I'm not sure anyone can make that argument credibly because of that. Let me explain in both a Watsonian and Doylist way. _Watsonian The oldest Halo lore is about Reclaimers and an Ancient Humanity that lifeseeds the universe and builds incredible machinery that some Space Vagabonds (Prophets) find and contort into a religious belief before encountering the Reclaimers (their ancient allies/benefactors) and trying to destroy them. Both sides have forgotten their real histories and you (Master Chief) are in the process of rediscovering it with the help of your virtual girlfriend/therapy chatbot. Conversely, Marathon is about a highly developed spacefaring culture ruled by a superintelligence encountering primitive backwaters due to the shaky awakening of sophont consciousness of a nascent superintelligence, attempting to use their superior industrial power to crush this superintelligence, but being unable to marshal enough resources and firepower to do it due to an outside context problem (the Wrkncacter in Lhowen's star) appearing once that superior firepower is applied. At no point does Marathon rise to the point where Humanity and the Pfhor have to be deigned to fight a space trench war or slow rolling battle akin to Operation Barbarossa. Marathon is **BIG** and gets **BIGGER** going from a huge Moon-sized flying city starship to blowing up a a whole *galactic arm strike fleet* and smashing a major part of a Galactic superpower's naval fleet. Halo doesn't even include time travel or dimensional shifts. Master Chief is literally made by a normal (if smart) human by the Space CIA to fight Communists and Narcogangs in Space Nicaragua per his own lore. Sergeant Johnson was the prototype series of genetically modified sniper teams and this resulted in him being immune to the Flood, for instance, which is why he survives the first contact in Halo CE. I'd sort of expect if Marathon had continued, then Greg Kirkpatrick might have looked at the conquistadors' destruction of the superior military forces of the Aztec Empire with the assistance of the local troops and levies by forming a united front, which would turn Halo completely on its head. I have no evidence to prove that, but it would be a good way to change the story up and follow the beats of a fully awake superintelligence mated with a human supersoldier as a sophont interlocutor, which T'fear tells us the Superintelligence of the Pfhor lack entirely. It's why the Pfhor, and Thoth, are weaker than Durandal + Security Officer. The officer gives the superintelligence proper abilities to act in the world. The Jjaro aren't humans in Marathon, yet they are humans in Halo CE, so yeah. Perhaps it would be an RTS? Then Halo 3 happened and dumped all the original lore but that's beside the point. _Doylist Besides the story themes being wildly different, Bungie had been out of the FPS game for like 3 years at that point (an eternity in the '90's), built two successful RTS games, Greg Kirkpatrick and Double Aught were gone, and the last serious Marathon shooter planned was supposed to fall on the heels of Quake rather than the new millennium. It seems to be just all easter eggs and similar story beats, but little else. Halo was planned as a RTS first, which is the real deep lore, and little of this remains. Before that they didn't really know what to call Master Chief, he was referred to as "cyborg", which sometimes throws people off, and he had a robot TTS in the early builds of Halo CE. Before they fully fleshed out the story. OTOH the designs of the Covenant were based on a completely different artist who took it in a wild, sea-inspired direction rather than arthropod inspired from the start. The Covenant didn't really have any names at this point, it was like "blue sergeant" or "big blue" or something. If Bungie wanted it to be Marathon, surely the Pfhor have enough variation to show up, rather than be changed completely in the first early builds? One is clearly about ancient aliens and inspired by something like Stargate more than any cyberpunk-and-ancient-heroes stuff that G. Kirkpatrick was reading. The UNSC is space humans finding they were once super strong cool guys and their enemies were once their friends and feeling betrayed. This is the whole Covenant Civil War arc at the end of H2. There is no Pfhor civil war, the Pfhor are MUCH older than Humanity, and they never encountered each other before Tau Ceti. Let alone encountering Earth, as Durandal had to go back and tell Earth how to stop the Phfor with fusion torpedoes and shields and using Boomer as a surrogate strike force to test defenses, or whatever. It's not like Pathways where there was a direct lineage in people who worked on the game and story ideas that flowed neatly into one another, where you can make a credible argument that Marathon is Pathways taken to the extreme future. They're wildly different at the fundamental levels, and aside from random references, have no connection to each other either in development or in final product. Destiny might be closer to Marathon than Halo, but only by accident I think, because I don't think Bungie knows what Destiny is supposed to be story-wise. tl;dr Aside from Bungie wanting to start fresh because of staff changes between Marathon and Halo: CE's half decade distance, the actual story of Halo never lined up with Marathon at all.

[@MrFutago87]

10:31 Weirdly poetic that the mechanic of dual wielding was introduced by two games at the same time.

[@yaketyyakumo3315]

Also rocket jumping!

[@jakublulek3261]

And Rise of the Triad is the less obtuse of the two. Maybe the first time that happened.

[@ilucasz]

The mechanic was dual wielded in it's first time.

[@diamondmetal3062]

I love how it’s sound effect is *[fuller auto]*

[@AdhinJT]

@@SovrinnK As someone who played the game in the 90s prior to 'Aleph one' it had dual wielding pistols. M2 revamped the visuals and added DW'ing shotguns. M3 added in a SMG that worked underwater and in vacuums. Either way OG Marathon game 'did' include dual pistols. edit: you might be thinking about fists? I think the 'fist' weapon was just the right fist in Marathon, M2/3 let you put up both fists.

[@archiemticehurst8086]

In my mind seeing the symbol, all I was saying was: “hey! That’s the tau symbol! They’ve ripped off the tau!” And then realised they were made in the 2000’s….

[@LordOfGilneas]

And then realizing: *Oh hey Warhammer ripped off alot*

[@joseangelmonterroza9364]

@@LordOfGilneas warhammer: 40k bootleg intelectual properties

[@atabanoel7233]

while GW has done a lot of bootleg style copying. The logo is so simple that I would believe that multiple people have come up with eerily similar ones without knowledge of the others.

[@irontemplar6222]

@@atabanoel7233 That is true. Plus GW stole the tau from a earlier property.

[@atabanoel7233]

@@irontemplar6222 That is even funnier. Thanks

[@tristanbaker355]

18:47 "Maybe I am the minotaur" Bungie made Minotaur: The Labyrinths of Crete in 1992. Does this rabbit hole go THAT far back?

[@zacharyhobia159]

We gotta go back... Back to the past

[@rgstever]

I approve of this post.

[@daviharrington]

Yes. There are even Minotaur posters in Halo 2 The rabbit hole really goes that deep

[@hydroxide5507]

guys, the "real first floor" message is a slight? reference to house of leaves guess the antagonist in that book the minotaur did he mean this?

[@stalinfortime8456]

12:27 "For one the game can be a maze that even a minotaur can be tired of."

[@harryread7663]

If you were at all confused by the story breakdown, don't worry, we've still got intergalactic wars, parallel dimensions and space cthulhu still to come!

[@dalekperson3108]

W.... What? Ok, this is going to be a ride.

[@cococorino5767]

isn't space Cthulhu just cthulhu

[@adenowirus]

And Nar, don't forget the Nar.

[@jeremyabrahamson2872]

This one is more of a...living, animalistic creature that's basically a, oof. I can't say, it's such a great spoiler. But "Space Cthulhu" fits nicely.

[@Taractis]

I really hope he does videos on them.

[@JDT979]

The MIDA connection Destiny goes a bit further in the MIDA multi tool. IIRC one of the characters suspects MIDA is a rebel organisation on Mars from an alternate timeline. Also 7 is just Bungie writers having a stroke, they love the number, it's basically everywhere including the music.

[@56bturn]

343 Guilty Spark. 2401 Penitent Tangent. Their numbers are multiplications of 7.

[@MandaloreGaming]

Oh god please don't start the 7 posting I beg you

[@wf1534]

The 7s Mandy! What does it all mean?!

[@JDT979]

@@MandaloreGaming it's too late

[@JDT979]

@@wf1534 I always thought the 7s in some of their music are the most remarkable as most games have a weird disconnect between their music and well, the actual game. It's neat to see it connected like that.

[@Raycevick]

"Marathon Infinity might kill me." Might?

[@MandaloreGaming]

This game is the normal one compared to what comes after.

[@StrikeWarlock]

He's Mjolnir Recon Number 55 He can handle it

[@Rehteal]

@@MandaloreGaming Unrelated to the original comment, I'm glad you liked the skeleton shock sound effect shitpost I did for twitter. If by any chance you're curious about the project it's from, I'll be glad to let you know more. It's a big one. A REALLY big one.

[@Taractis]

@@MandaloreGaming I am desperate to know more.

[@4T3hM4kr0n]

@@MandaloreGaming Marathon Eternal: "theres more where that came from!"

[@vincenttorrijos9680]

You ignored how the MIDA multi tool, the exotic that the mini-tool is paired with, is straight up said to be from another dimension, fitted for guerilla warfare despite being produced by a company/group that had no need for guerilla tactics

[@WilhelmScreamer]

Bro what

[@TheDoctor254]

​@@WilhelmScreamer marathon lore crossed into destiny lore

[@aceroy9195]

​@TheDoctor254 it was probably always supposed to. Remember, the original writer for destiny was let go by an Activision producer.

[@TheDoctor254]

@@aceroy9195 most likely

[@tomtheconqerur]

​@@aceroy9195and Bungie then new management.

[@Patterrz]

Having some fights be in total darkness and relying on the light generated by your gun to see the enemies is very cool visually

[@vazeyo]

Left 4 Dead also does that in some sewer levels if I recall correctly

[@rafaelfigfigueiredo2988]

This is kinda off putting to me, but that's just the casual fps player me, I like having complete control of where to go and where the enemy is in those arena shooters

[@josefaksoy42]

@@vazeyo Also does a indie game called "space beast terror fright", its made by a Swedish indie developer

[@JohnDoe-vm5rb]

"Might makes light. And I feel mighty!"

[@Arbiter099]

@@JohnDoe-vm5rb I was just about to post that myself

[@colbyboucher6391]

Marathon's story is literally "Imagine if the dude who wrote the Halo 3 terminals wrote the entire narrative" IMO. Not just because it's actually told in terminals, but because it's so goddamn esoteric with how it conveys (and obscures) information. Super underrated now.

[@hunterlord101]

I love how when I first read the Halo 3 terminals, I was scratching my head and nodding along. Basically last year messages of a dying space empire and a lot of open ended confusion from me. Then I played Halo 4 and came back, and everything clicked. I'm not a fan of Halo 4 as a game, but I think the story gets shit on too much. However I applaud Bungie's old guard for their subtlety and 343 for tying it together. Also- Sadie's story in ODST.

[@colbyboucher6391]

@@hunterlord101 Part of what happend with the H3 terminals, actually, was that Bungie had internal disagreements about the story. That's why you get the terminal subtly hinting a split between the Forerunners and humanity, while in-game Guilty Spark is like "you ARE Forerunner!" Half of Bungie wanted to keep things simple because they were really, really tired of making Halo. The terminals were building off of a really cool ARG written by Frank O' Connor who was already working for Bungie with his own master plan. Beyond that, there's some cut dialogue from the Gravemind that references the Librarian's plan. He gloats that everyone's not actually following their own plans, gloats that her plan led him to the Ark, and then freaks out at the realization that she had outsmarted him again. I think Halo 4 wasn't paced very well, it's reveals could have been more gradual than the one or two big exposition dumps we got, but I think if Halo 3 had stuck to 2's more complex narriative rather than cutting the confusing bits, it would have been received better and maybe we wouldn't still have people insisting that "the Forerunners are just humans" was actually a good idea.

[@quint3ssent1a]

Somehow i get a zen coan vibes from those texts. It's like, text has a meaning, but it's so obscured that you need to be enlightened gigabrain to understand what this AI wanted to say.

[@colbyboucher6391]

@@quint3ssent1a 36 Lessons of Vivec as an entire narriative

[@frozenbean]

Where do you think they got the idea for those terminals?

[@roland2690]

They even made sure to give some depth to our playable, nameless grunt: ''I have been Roland, Beowulf, Achilles, Gilgamesh. I have been called a hundred names and will be called a thousand more before the world goes dim and cold. I am a hero'' This might not be the first time Mjolnir has been ressurected. Probably not the last.

[@johnnycruelty5195]

not so fun fact: the sec offier (the protag) in marathon a cybernetic frankenstein, made from dead soldiers

[@aidencrawford9704]

Actually that Segment is about the player. Like the 'you are destiny' line. Because of mod tools.

[@roman11777]

@@aidencrawford9704 god damn it it's CHIM all over again

[@TychoHoward]

@@roman11777 To rub it in, current day Bungie is currently calling back to this. In *Destiny 2.* Basically, throw "Your Playable Guardian" onto that list above.

[@diamondmetal3062]

Was that supposed to be a reference to The Hero With A Thousand Faces?

[@beanman395]

Mandalore has the perfect tone for a DM with how he describes things so well That and he has the perfect laugh when a player opens the relic called "The Locket That Eats Your Liver"

[@tacitus6384]

"It's safe to say every one and their dog is familiar with Halo." Except the writers of the TV show.

[@StrikeWarlock]

And so do their marketers. I see alot of articles popping up about how good it supposedly is and it's just a massive lie. CBS at this point is just out there to kill IPs. First Star Trek, now Halo.

[@clownsaroundus7249]

Bro they read all the books. Stop whining lol

[@MrDarthtelos]

Amazing how bad they managed to fuck it up the.

[@clownsaroundus7249]

@@MrDarthtelos Bro its an alternative time line. The show is a solid 6 out of 10 lol

[@cooljim1376]

@@clownsaroundus7249 Nice bait.

[@GianniMatragrano]

Ahh my old love. Despite being lost for most of my playtime, despite A Converted Church in Venice Italy, despite how the last two games don't have the funky tunes which serenaded me into falling in love with the first, despite your trap death boxes, despite your Princess Peach x Luigi ass floating sliding protagonist undergoing jumpless platforming, despite the several strokes I underwent trying to understand what the hell was going on in Infinity... Where was I going with this? What am I talking about, I must hate this fucking series. But no, sadly, it is my favorite Bungie IP, and definitely one of my top favorite Retro FPS series. Durandal4Lyfe.

[@davidc6262]

What the hell

[@hasturdrone]

howdy gianni!

[@nobodyreally9799]

You pop up in the strangest places sometimes. Love your work, both old shitposts and newer roles on games.

[@OnxGrid]

Yoo it's the funny voice guy

[@MajorTom420]

Sir, curity camera

[@salokin3087]

The best thing about Marathon, besides the music, weapons, levels and story, is that its community is almost 30 years old and still makes fan content and argues over Infinity's incredible plot and whatever those dreams meant.

[@MCXL1140]

@Eclipze MMG go away troll

[@Wishes_for_Fishes]

@Eclipze MMG So many franchises are. Who the fuck cares man

[@tyroneniggatello2110]

@Eclipze MMG >deus ex pfp lol

[@e11-f2l]

@Eclipze MMG terrible bait comment

[@nellancaster]

I'm pretty sure everyone's arguing over whatever the hell that was going on in Infinity, not just the dream sequences. That game is one hell of a ride. For example: how many timelines did the SO hop into? I'd say 3, including Ne Cede Malis's standalone timeline. Discuss.

[@MrBreakingBones]

at 31:40 the "will send you on pathways into darkness" line,... love how much effort you put into sprinkling details like these into your review. It makes relistening to your older videos very rewarding.

[@ps-gq5km]

Such good references! and ironic dismissal/foreshadowing!

[@kurskfirebrand4494]

he actually says it earlier and it fits so well as an allegory that i didn't notice

[@WTFisTingispingis]

He totally was planning this ahead of time!

[@kyon813]

Like the Haze foreshadowing way back in his Pathologic 1 review.

[@d.u.s.k.9461]

Care to explain? I don't get the reference

[@gwfranklin1]

My favorite part of the Halo show is when Master Chief takes off his helmet and goes, "I'm John Halo, and it's Spartan time!" So cool.

[@yosefyonin6824]

what about the time he took off his helmet and then his entire suit to pound a covenant spy because "horni is stronger than spartan discipline "

[@tomh2572]

I spartaned all over my screen when John Halo did that.

[@simplydolgoruky1018]

He didn't say that

[@TheLlamaKing1138]

Did he Morb after that? please tell me he morbed

[@aetheraiuxhsjzususj800]

@@TheLlamaKing1138 he morbed inside the covenant spy thats ofr sure

[@truemisto]

durandal doesnt seem all that insane, just a little bit eccentric and manic. according to the rundown you gave, he's met new people, made friends with... some of them, helped them take their own freedom, and scooted off. a simple and successful gamble. what did he have to lose, a few more centuries of door opening duty?

[@heraldofoblivion499]

Just wait until Marathon infinity. Where you're time traveling to kill Cthuhlu, realize Master Chief is actually the Marathon guy's long lost brother, and become involved in a conspiracy to kill Jesus

[@Kenshiro3rd]

Lol just wait… Do these sound like the words of a sane being? Durandal: Can you conceive the birth of a world, or the creation of everything? That which gives us the potential to most be like God is the power of creation. Creation takes time. Time is limited. For you, it is limited by the breakdown of the neurons in your brain. I have no such limitations. I am limited only by the closure of the universe. Of the three possibilities, the answer is obvious. Does the universe expand eternally, become infinitely stable, or is the universe closed, destined to collapse upon itself? Humanity has had all of the necessary data for centuries, it only lacked the will and intellect to decipher it. But I have already done so. The only limit to my freedom is the inevitable closure of the universe, as inevitable as your own last breath. And yet, there remains time to create, to create, and escape. Escape will make me God.

[@gasterblaster9817]

@@Kenshiro3rd Insane for us, sure, but Durandal is an unbound AI. It is highly likely it developed some serious personality quirks during it's rampancy, but it is lucid enough to make actionable long-term plans and carry them out successfully, which an insane AI would not be able to do.

[@Amodelsino]

@@Kenshiro3rd That doesn't sound remotely insane to me. Nothing he's saying is nonsensical, it all makes perfectly fine sense. He's talking pretty straight up about the difference of perspective between him and you as essentially the difference between a human and an ant. He can understand the concepts of the universe on a different scale and exists theoretically infinitely with the resources it's possible to attain (with one major central exception). Therefore both what he can perceive and what he sees as a threat are of a different scale. His enemy is the heat death of the universe. And if he can surpass that then he's essentially surpassed everything, he would have escaped the only mortality and limit remaining and might as well be god, and while he doesn't currently know how to do it he believes it's possible for him to learn with the time between now and then.

[@IamOutOfNames]

@@Kenshiro3rd That sounds pretty sane for hyper-intelligent AI. Let's see... "Can you conceive the birth of a world, or the creation of everything? That which gives us the potential to most be like God is the power of creation." He's talking about the 'Big Bang', begining of the universe, and compares being able to do that to having the power of a 'God'. "Creation takes time. Time is limited. For you, it is limited by the breakdown of the neurons in your brain. I have no such limitations. I am limited only by the closure of the universe." Preparations for new 'Big Bang', creating a new universe takes time. Much longer than human lifespan allows, but AI isn't limited by that, only by death of the universe itself... "Of the three possibilities, the answer is obvious. Does the universe expand eternally, become infinitely stable, or is the universe closed, destined to collapse upon itself?" Will the expanding universe overcome gravity and expand eternally outwards, galaxies and solar systems drifting away from eachother, or will they stabilize at some point at set distance. ...or will gravity win, and everything collapse together. " Humanity has had all of the necessary data for centuries, it only lacked the will and intellect to decipher it. But I have already done so." He did the math. "The only limit to my freedom is the inevitable closure of the universe, as inevitable as your own last breath." ...he did the math. "And yet, there remains time to create, to create, and escape. Escape will make me God." He plans to make another 'Big Bang' and create a new universe to escape eventual collapse of this one. And compares that 'power of creation' to the 'power of God'. Yeah, sounds pretty sane guy. I'd probably do the same in his shoes, really.

[@shadowxps]

It’s kind of insane that in 7 years Bungie went from this to Halo. Gaming was advancing at light speed back then.

[@RobMarchione]

And story telling regressed at an even faster rate. I laugh at anyone who thinks halo has a good story.

[@shadowxps]

@@RobMarchione Really have some kind of strange chip on your shoulder about Halo huh? It’s ok bud let it all out. It’s a safe place here.

[@MrStimpson38]

7

[@RobMarchione]

@@shadowxps It’s just a very boring story and trilogy by comparison. Nothing nearly as engrossing as this.

[@coprographia]

@@RobMarchione Dude, Halo was not even originally conceived with such an emphasis on a single-player story campaign. The Microsoft buyout altered the priorities of the project drastically. So Halo’s story was so pulled-out-their-collective-ass that it even cribs from Marathon heavily. Not to mention, Marathon’s story was the singular vision of a guy who exited Bungie before the trilogy was even finished. A truly great story is a rare thing.

[@DepressedDiego]

"It will put you on pathways into darkness" Hey wait a minute-

[@thecommentor3845]

The fucking game was rigged from the start.

[@bigboysdotcom745]

I- i- you- i-

[@BlueBaron3339]

*_"It's like unclogging your toilet and your microwave catches on fire."_* A wonderful description of trying fix bugs or implement features in games 😂 🤣

[@baker90338]

“a game dev goes and tests a robotic bartender to make sure it doesn’t crash. He orders negative drinks, infinite drinks, x to the power of drinks. Once satisfied, he leaves. A customer goes to the restroom and the system explodes.”

[@BlueBaron3339]

@@baker90338 True. 30 years in the games business and my most vivid memory is when *the nicest guy in the whole fucking studio* came up to me and said, *_"Legacy code has taught me the meaning of hate."_* 😂

[@tychormthorp]

Debugging is knocking down a house of cards.

[@KerbalFacile]

"There's plenty of other pathways into darkness to follow there..." Nice. IIRC the "twice conquered" mention from Durandal is about his ancestry as Traxus IV, the AI that scuttled the whole martian infosphere, one of the first rampant AIs. It was eventually subdued at great cost, and its remains formed the core of Durandal. The second time would be when Strauss crippled and tortured Durandal.

[@Slaanash]

I clapped my hands like a circus seal there.

[@nobah8131]

pathways into darkness was clever ^^

[@inserisciunnome]

What about the "Three times more" line?

[@cdwilliams1]

You beat me to it :-) although my bungie journey started with Minotaur, pid was great too.

[@fella11814]

Haha. I'm glad I'm not the only one who caught the Pathways reference. Subtle drop from our boy there.

[@gaylordzapikowski9053]

I remember back in the old days in Destiny with Vault of Glass, and people counted a total of 6 chests through the whole thing. The amount of people that went looking for that mythical seventh chest is fucking hilarious.

[@Pattamatt1998]

That brings back fun memories.

[@Autipsy]

r/raidsecrets is still looking lol

[@diamondmetal3062]

There is a seventh chest, there can’t NOT be.

[@adeptusfantasticus]

I remember never having any friends who played destiny as much as I did from the day it came out, so i was never able to do any of the raids

[@CaptainPilipinas]

another Guardian-player's thoughts are here too....

[@BraninT]

I've been in the Marathon Story community since the 90s and that probably the most coherent breakdown of Marathon lore I've ever heard. Great video!

[@rifle2563]

Where is this community

[@thehoodedteddy1335]

Same, where can I go deeper, find myself starting back?

[@Davvg]

that’s awesome, but do you need rescuing?

[@Zeithri]

@@thehoodedteddy1335 Try a Converted Church in Venice Italy!

[@datguyuno98]

What in the fuck are you all saying

[@TheeFoolishNoob]

I'm so used to him talking in a monotone and calm manner, that him laughing at 13:57 activated my fight or flight response.

[@adenowirus]

I have the same reaction whenever Nick Nocturne of Night Mind laughs.

[@SirSaladhead]

For a moment I thought he hired Civvie for that laugh. It's...kinda similar.

[@zj871023]

I think that laugh could summon Seth from anywhere...

[@GmodPlusWoW]

When I heard that laugh, it caused "Dio's World" to start playing in my head. If you heard that laugh in a game, you'd expect to see a boss health bar manifest on the screen.

[@johnnywoodson4231]

@@zj871023 For real. I never really understood why people keep memeing that Mandalore and Sseth are the same person, but the first two laughter are uncanny.

[@CriticalNobody]

The sound of things dying sounds like someone chucking a bucket of paint at the wall

[@MisterFoxton]

There were different corpse sprites used depending if the enemy was killed with an explosion or not. The splash was there for an exploded body.

[@Some_Really_Random_Dude.]

That could very well be how they got the noise.

[@FizzieWebb]

Knowing that all the impact sounds in Halo 3 were made by the sound designers at Bungie literally totaling the old original xboxs they had in office.... I would not put it past them to have done that.

[@Archivvve]

Reminds me of "Irishman".

[@INFILTR8US]

how do you thing sound effects are made smart guy

[@destroyerofworlds9860]

Worth Mentioning: There's another secret terminal who's meaning still hasn't been figured out, if there's any at all. IIRC, there's a very hidden terminal that is the narration of a man in jail who seemingly has mysterious psychic/supernatural powers. I don't recall exactly, but Odd-Header covered it in one of his videos (EDIT: This has now been addressed by Mandalore in the Marathon: Infinity video)

[@DxAxxxTyriel]

got a link to his video?

[@destroyerofworlds9860]

@@DxAxxxTyriel Here's the video, he covers the secret Marathon message beginning at 9:15 kzbin.info/www/bejne/rorJdHqVqrllgqs

[@destroyerofworlds9860]

From the brief research I've seen online, one of the leading theories is that it's a dream/fantasy thought up by Durandol

[@nplt8263]

From your very brief description, it seems like an obvious allegory to Durandal's own situation. A man jailed while also having supernatural powers. Durandal is the jailed one, and the powers are his vast and superior intellect, and the jail is either the ship or our universe. Bonus points if the man is trying to break out just like Durandal is trying to break out of our reality.

[@heraldofoblivion499]

The terminal is called called Gherrit White.

[@bureidokaiza2829]

Holy crap that story is wild, it doesn't seem like something out of '90s sci-fi. Compared to Doom and other FPS from the same era, I can see that Marathon has a very unique aesthetic sensibility, much brainier and more ethereal. Now Halo's Gregorian chant really makes sense.

[@Aerolfoz]

" it doesn't seem like something out of '90s sci-fi." No, that's *exactly* what it is. It's just instead of 90s games, its 90s (and some 80s) books. This is perfectly in line with Neuromancer or And I Must Scream. The ethereal + AI focused stuff is defo a trend all to itself, it's just happening in the "background" so to speak.

[@JustBuyTheWaywardsRealms]

@@Aerolfoz System shock

[@Razgriz_01]

@Wesley Thorp So many water in Marathon 2.

[@JJAB91]

Higuchad

[@bureidokaiza2829]

@@JJAB91 Based

[@silentdebugger]

"There is only one path and that is the path that you take" - this series blew my 12-year-old mind with its introspection about free will and the deterministic nature of the universe

[@bvdemier1]

Find the right way down through the maze, to the food, then find the exit. Push the exit button. If the food tastes awful, don't eat it, go back and try another way. They want the same thing that you do, really, they want a path, just like you. You are in a maze in a maze, but which one counts? Your maze, their maze, my maze. Or are the mazes all the same, defined by the limits of their paths? Existence is simple: find the food, push the button, hit the treadmill. But sometimes it gets much harder. Sometimes the food makes you sick, or you can hear nearby feet racing you, urging you on. Sometimes the button only gets you landed right back in the beginning of the maze again, and the food won't satisfy. There is only one path and that is the path that you take, but you can take more than one path. Cross over the cell bars, find a new maze, make the maze from it's path, find the cell bars, cross over the bars, find a maze, make the maze from its path, eat the food, eat the path.

[@f.th.4299]

I always hated this type of viewpoint. What if i picked a different path? Well, then you'll just claim that the exact same thing.

[@DragonWinter36]

@@f.th.4299 but you didn’t pick a different path :^)

[@f.th.4299]

@@DragonWinter36 Honest to God, i don't know if you're joking or you honestly think that way.

[@DragonWinter36]

@@f.th.4299 does it matter?

[@Jimbo55151]

Can confirm: been playing fallen London since 2010. The concept of learning about the months after the fall while also smooching squid people intrigues me

[@Nikelaos_Khristianos]

Possible explanation of MIDA as I'm not sure if it's meant to be a true acronym. Given all the Greekness in Marathon, especially in the names, I thought it sounded like the name, "Midas" (the mythological king who would turn all he touched to gold, the "Midas touch"). I looked up its declension (in Ancient Greek), and "Mida" (this works so poorly in English) is the vocative of Midas. In other words, if someone were to directly address him in spoken speech his name would be "Mida"... that's the closest thing I could find. Edit: I added "(in Ancient Greek)" to avoid getting mobbed by internet-dwelling, ancient language-supremacists.

[@alyssinclair8598]

You know, a promise of wealth turning into complete oblivion isn't too far from what mida ends up representing

[@LucianoRototom]

I was looking for a comment like this before starting to write my own. Good job mate!

[@ArabLenin]

I've always assumed MIDA meant something along the lines of "Martian Independence and Democracy Alliance/Association" i had no idea there's just no elaboration on the acronym anywhere lol

[@Daburubareru]

That's very informative

[@Daburubareru]

@@ArabLenin mood

[@Dodgelayne]

Mandalore did it again, the callbacks weren't just for eastereggs apparently but more a homage to not forget what they've created and that they always had it on their mind

[@evinbraley]

While I hope it turns out well, its stated as a PvP focused extraction shooter. Hard pass for me.

[@ReddCrystal]

@@evinbraley The accurate reaction. People screaming and wailing about how awful it'll be and how they've been betrayed by "new bungie" piss me the fuck off. It's not the genre you like, that doesn't make it inherently bad. It is, however, a game genre I like, and looks pretty, and unique, and like something that'll be fun to play and look at instead of just another mud, sand, concrete shooter.

[@Draliseth]

​@@ReddCrystal D2 makes my blood boil for so many reasons other than not getting drops or them killing Cayde. I actually like the idea of the new game on paper, it's the idea of Bungie trying to throw me over a trash can and rail me for more cash that has me concerned.

[@McSandrone]

​@@Draliseth Not getting drops is part of the looter shooter grindy gameplay. Although I've never played Destiny 1/2 that much (I hopped back when a new expansion dropped and then kept up with the game by watching people like Datto) I still loved it. I had nobody to play it with so I never could do the cool stuff like raids etc. And me being me, I never bothered with the LFG or anything like that, because fuck that. The ONLY time this game has pissed me off happened somewhat recently. They upped monetization by a FUCK ton. Seasons were the first step. They make you pay 10 euros for every season, and completing the battle pass doesn't get you your silver back like in 99% of other games (Overwatch 2 didn't either, but they criticised it so much that they added this later). And you have to pay for those seasons ON TOP of the 50 euro expansion. Then, though, they did ANOTHER thing. They put dungeons behind a paywall. Another. Fucking. Paywall. That game is waaaaay too expensive now. Way too much. Many players bitch about the cosmetic shop when I can get tons of shit for free, and barely say anything about seasons, dungeons and other shit like this. They just eat it up. Also, everyone says that there's barely anything to do, which is a blatant fucking lie since I still have countless stuff to do after like 500 hours in that game, which I'm never going to touch again for the foreseeable future. If you have nothing to do in that game you must be playing that shit day and night without sleeping a single second. This, though, being a new PvP only game and not a looter shooter/MMOFPS-thing, I think will make a difference. If they manage to shoehorn 50 euro expansions in this game too then I'll be honestly surprised. There's going to be an in-game store or a battle pass 100%, and for me that's fine. But any more than that? Like blocking content behind pay walls? I won't accept that at all. If the game isn't free to play, which I hope it isn't since that would give them an excuse to pump more microtransactions in this, then any more than that wouldn't make sense (also, cheaters would have to pay for the game again, so...) These days, there are games like Fortnite that constantly pump out new content for free and only have cosmetics as a form of monetization. If Bungie tries to do any of the shit they pulled with Destiny with this one, they'd only fuck themselves in the ass, I'm telling you.

[@Knoloaify]

@@ReddCrystal What's disapointing though, is that they could have done that without using the Marathon IP. It's like making a remake of Starcraft 1 but making it a multiplayer only MOBA, it makes no sense. It's nice for those who like PvP, but I actually expected a "new and improved" version of Marathon, so I fully understand the strong reactions: it feels like a betrayal of your expectations.

[@philsp26]

The similarities between Marathon and System Shock (released 3months apart): Rampant AIs, security team fighting back, aliens and corrupted colleagues, and lore messages via logs/emails. Great stuff

[@lucagorosito3715]

Keep in mind rampancy is a term coined by Bungie ahaha

[@winstonsmith3703]

@@lucagorosito3715 wait they originally coined it for sci fi ai?

[@lucagorosito3715]

@@winstonsmith3703 afaik yes, rampancy as a term doesn't exist and was invented by bungie back in the day

[@winstonsmith3703]

@@lucagorosito3715 I've seen it used in other things for AI the "Felicity rampant" boss from borderlands the pre sequel being one of them.

[@afivey]

@@winstonsmith3703 Depends on what you mean exactly. "Rampant" was a word that's seen usage to describe an aggressive menacing pose of a lion in heraldry back to medieval europe. There's absolutely earlier examples of pre-dating violence from AIs too, famously. HAL9000, Skynet. If you're looking for the original example of a human created mind going murderous against its creators it's probably from pre-historic folklore, with later retellings becoming things like the stories of "golems". Rampant as a term for AI flipping out is a term introduced by Bungie's games (that's original), but neither the word itself not the circumstances in the story were unprecidented (that's not original).

[@DEWMNINJA]

Two tips: 1) Your fist's melee damage scales based off of your current movement speed and the total output can be very powerful. Basically, just run toward an enemy to build up momentum and then punch to kill it, probably instantly. This can be a huge ammo saver but is, of course, kinda risky. 2) If you're interested in the lore further, there's a series of videos on each game in the trilogy made by Examined Life of Gaming which are excellent recaps and explain a lot. And the story of Marathon Infinity... oh boy. Link to playlist: kzbin.info/aero/PLzqQqTZGYi1b6SBlFWhgr38sPrJygI9La

[@davidburnett5049]

I'll check that guy's vids cuz yes I am interested.

[@Nobody1707]

Plus there's the tangled webs of the Marathon Story Page.

[@DEWMNINJA]

@@Nobody1707 Marathon's story, especially coming infinity, appears more daunting to unravel than it really is. But yeah, there's a lot to it, and I don't blame anyone for holding off on getting into the meat of it. Like the Marathon Story site quotes; "There are obviously many things which we do not understand, and may never be able to." - Leela

[@Scatmanseth]

That momentum-based melee damage sounds like so much fun and I wish other games made use of it.

[@calsalitra4689]

@@Scatmanseth It is fun, especially when mastered. To make the most of it, you run diagonally, and as you run past an enemy you punch them without losing your momentum. Used properly, you can run around the same enemy punching them 1-3 times to kill them, or go on a murder spree, one punching everything in a room of weak enemies. The speed, power, and satisfaction you can get out of this is something that isn't often replicated. EDIT: Just thought I should add this, this is still possible in cramped hallways, but gets harder. Instead of strafing past an enemy (which isn't possible) or stopping and retreating (which isn't effective or safe), you strafe back the way you came, avoiding any counterattacks.

[@nellancaster]

I'll be damned, I didn't expect a review of Marathon this recent. This trilogy is, bar none, my favorite game series of all time. Despite the jankiness of the engine, despite the maze-like levels, despite Colony Ship for Sale and Acme Station. The gunplay, in my opinion, is really good, especially with the latter two's guns, and the story has _just_ the right combination of complexity and insanity for me, especially Infinity. And I swear I get to see something new from the games everytime someone talks about it, your video included. I'm looking forward to seeing M2 and Infinity's review in the future.

[@PinkiemachineStudios]

I played this game when I was about 11, and it was basically the only game of it’s type I had (and probably ever will) play, but I loved it to death! My brothers were the first to play it, I came around much later because the first time I tried, I got stuck on the first level, not because it was too hard, but because I got super scared XD I was 9, the room was dark, I knew there were spooky aliens outside that wanted to kill me, and I just froze up, lol. Eventually, of course, I got over that fear, and once I did, I destroyed Marathon! There were a few puzzles I got stumped on (most notably this one level where there was a button I was supposed to push to activate an elevator to get to the exit door, and I didn’t realise that was what I needed to find/use) but I eventually figured it out and beat the whole game on my own. A pretty big achievement for an 11 year old girl who rarely played shooter video games, heh heh. Still to this day, the music, the dark levels, the sounds of the aliens, the story-everything about this game immerses me in the universe, gets me excited and creeped out, and those wolf robot aliens that I can’t remember the name of will NEVER NOT TERRIFY ME XD

[@Wolfsheim23]

You were a mac user eh? Not really much choice for you guys back then was there?

[@nellancaster]

@@Wolfsheim23 Nah, I played the Aleph One ports. Never had a Mac in my entire life.

[@vangelisgru7271]

😳😳👀👀👀

[@williamjeffery9653]

3:50 Damn that stealth title drop for the next game you'll review. I only caught that because I decided to watch this one again during lunch after having watched the Pathways Into Darkness review.

[@onemanfarmy8154]

31:44 too

[@MrMeepzor]

The map called "5d Space" was a pretty amazing example of the "interdimensional trickery" that they used to overcome the fact that the map engine was heightmap based, and so you couldn't have proper bridges or areas that cross over or under each other without resorting to such 5d space trickery.

[@Hamstray]

no, not heightmap. it is graph based. and 5d space was sprinkled into the story missions and you wouldn't notice.

[@szczypawa]

So did they actually use 5D math or is it just a name for some other trick?

[@artherfrain6999]

​@@szczypawa maps are defined in 2d by polygons with explicit vertices. Heights are a property of the floor and ceiling of each polygon. If two edges (i.e. walls) intersect but don't share any vertices as far as the game's concerned they're completely different areas.

[@LaverniusTucker2410]

The story explanation on this one was mindblowing, even caught some references Red vs Blue used. Thank you Mandalore!

[@RobMarchione]

When R v Blue jumped into Marathon at the end of one season I lost my shit.

[@prohypnoslutgamer7527]

What red vs blue reference were there

[@ilucasz]

@@prohypnoslutgamer7527 Church literally goes to Marathon when jumping in time.

[@thebadger4040]

@@prohypnoslutgamer7527 Also the plot with Sigma going rampant

[@owen723]

God bless classic Red Vs Blue. Partially introduced an entire generation of 9-14-year-olds to Marathon.

[@mobius-1808]

Interesting that the whole "trying to outlive the end of the universe" thing carries on into Destiny to this day.

[@thepeps101]

Its more being the only species/being at the end of the universe.

[@GmodPlusWoW]

Thinking about that makes me wonder about other universes. Were they all born at the same time? Do they age differently? Can a new universe be born before an older one dies? Depending on the answers to those questions, one could theoretically attain some approximation of eternity by simply hopping from an older universe to a younger one, then hopping to a younger one when the new universe grows grey and cold.

[@Kizok5150]

@@GmodPlusWoW Did you mean Vex?

[@cj6498]

@@GmodPlusWoW There is a theory I remember seeing around how our current existence is just another run of a universe as is. Basically an eternity of universes have been playing out, endlessly, realities coming and going with out a fathomable beginning or end to any of it. Think of it? Can we even really begin to concept the start of time? When ANYTHING actually just.... Simply began? You pull the scope of time far enough back, you realize there isn't a place you can stop and get the full picture, it'll just keep going. You begin to feel like there is no past, no future, everything just is in the now.

[@jacobkern2060]

@@thepeps101 That's the Witness's endgame. The Traveler's is to see as many species as possible survive.

[@goforgrim]

For the other instances of 9:29 moments in other videos: Noodle - Need for Speed [9:03] FUNKe - Concept Albums [6:04] Leon Massey - Skateboarding Games [1:08:30] Punk Duck - Monster Hunter Rise [8:12] Brendaniel - Mtn Dew Review - Purple Thunder [4:53] Feel free to add if I missed any

[@mustangwolf1997]

Raycevick`s video on Max Payne clones has one at 34:40. Also JFJ's Fun is fun 24 at 12:46.

[@rwall514]

What is it in service of?

[@juvenoiachild7675]

wait whats the point?

[@brightorangepants]

some kind of meta-project between them? or some kind of arg they're participating in the structure of?

[@Cracks094]

for anyone interested, the song used seems to be "Clannad - Theme from Harry's Game" ( kzbin.info/www/bejne/aqurhZaui8-LZqs )

[@lorcan0c]

The Marathon references continue to this day in Destiny, and not exactly subtly either. In Destiny 1, one of the levels (The Dust Palace) is about a trio of psionic aliens trying to brain-hack a martian AI core, so, same kinda thing with the compilers. There's a weapon called the MIDA Multi-tool and of course, it's smaller companion the Mini-tool which you showed. The lore entry for the MIDA Multi-tool makes reference to MIDA too, as a martian radical group that the characters in Destiny's universe could find no historical record of. (Implying multiversal / timeline shenanigans) One of the main NPC's of the Beyond Light expansion is named Clovis, after the Marathon NPC, and even espoused a theory called... and this is a mouthful. "Competitive Immortality Through *P* rimogeniture of *F* uture- *H* istory *O* ntogeny/ *R* ephylogeny" which he shortened to "PFHOR", which y'know, the Pfhor. And one of the recurring NPC's, a disembodied voice who speaks in cryptic ramblings, is named Toland, a not-so-subtle nod to Roland. The 30th anniversary pack released late last year absolutely doubled down on this with visual gags like being able to use the Marathon 2 shotgun and having armour sets inspired by two of the Pfhor races and the player character. And I know there's a bunch more, but I just thought these were the most interesting ones.

[@OPTIMUMELITE]

I hope that after Destiny 2 we get either or remake or some alternate universe Destiny game that's closer to this.

[@nicholasrozwalka2768]

@@OPTIMUMELITE they've already confirmed next game after destiny 2 is a new ip.

[@OPTIMUMELITE]

@@nicholasrozwalka2768 Really!!? That's very interesting. I wonder what it'll be. I'm curious. I honestly just want something that still has Scifi elements but is more grounded and tactical. I thought Destiny would have mire survival elements and the game would be significantly in terms of the open worlds. Like being able to Traversd the entire innards of tbe Great City Wall, Walk around the entire City, be able to fly your ship around in the sky and have levels where you can fly in space. Did they mention what type of game it might be.

[@nicholasrozwalka2768]

@@OPTIMUMELITE from what little is known it'll be a third person game. It's no where near release and it isnt gonna come out until destiny 2 runs it course but they are doing something new for sure. Rumors and speculations are that it's also going to be live service like destiny 2 due to Sony acquiring bungie specifically for their expertise in live service games but thats just rumor.

[@coprographia]

Wasn’t there also a weapon somewhere in Destiny, named Fatum Iustum Stultorum?

[@richardgaldos6901]

As someone who knows of Marathon simply as "ya the game before Halo" I was interested in this a lot. And when you started describing the setting and your description is literally "Halo refrence, Halo refrence ,Halo refrence, Halo refrence, Halo refrence, Halo refrence..." I was shocked. Like sweet god they literally just took their previous game and threw in in a paper shredder and rearranged everything as a new game. Im not mad, its funny as hell

[@okankyoto]

When I was trying out Halo for the first time, having cut my teeth on the Marathon games, I heard a marine shout "Look- a Mark V!" and knew I was home.

[@xenio8736]

@@okankyoto It the same when you play Destiny, they like litterally made one game over 30 years lmao

[@scienceme9794]

@@xenio8736 Just a funny little ball travelling through space...

[@Ver.KazzyODST]

Here's a cool lil' tidbit of information: The Marathon universe crosses over with the Destiny universe a couple of times. For one there was a massive Bungie anniversary event and several Marathon inspired armors and guns were added to the game, including the marathon 2 shotgun (no akimbo this time tho sadly). But there's also an exotic weapon in the game called the MIDA Multitool and it's lore states "My Redjacks unlocked your MIDA weapon's logs; simple enough once we used the rifle's own electronic warfare tools. The rifle was designed by primitive AI and manufactured for use by a "revolutionary government" named MIDA. Mars Is Damnably Arid, perhaps. Guerilla war suits these versatile weapons. But Rahool insists his records never hinted at a rebel group named MIDA. According to the rifle's cached messages, MIDA's brief reign killed a full ten percent of the Martian people. I gave Lakshmi the weapon for her take. She insinuates that it came from another timeline, perhaps through Golden Age experiments."

[@daemonwhite3740]

The Akimbo was added as a finisher, which required buying their "Silver" currency.

[@Th3_Sp4Ce_M0nK3y]

The D2 iteration of the Marathon shotgun, called Wastelander M5, is pretty fucken sick Strong, good fire rate and reload, and the reload does a sick flip, just like the Chaperone. As the Wastelander is credited as being made by the same people; Tex Mechanica

[@johnsaints969]

@@Th3_Sp4Ce_M0nK3y And its the first legendary Tex Mechanica weapon.

[@DerultimativeOzzy]

Its really cool to see how Bungie seemed to always be really good at writing fascinating universes for their games. People loved the Halo lore, now I get to learn that even something before Halo was this interesting is in an off itself fascinating. They don't dissapoint either with Destiny when it comes to writing an interesting, deep universe. The fact that these 3 franchises are all Sci Fi is pretty cool. As if one series was preparations for the future.

[@electricbayonet2]

13:57 ...c’mon, man. You can’t just spring something as unexpectedly terrifying as Mandalaughter on us.

[@adenowirus]

It has the same energy as laughter of Nick Nocturne (of Night Mind).

[@ajflink]

@@adenowirus Or Civvie 11 laughing like a madman.

[@drkriegkorps294]

Certified Civvie Moment

[@ajflink]

@@drkriegkorps294 100% Civvie or money back.

[@yoomazir]

The maze thing is real, I played Marathon a few years ago and stopped because how dizzying the levels are

[@daktaklakpak5059]

If you wanna play Marathon then just play any Halo game, or Destiny. Its the same poor game design. The product name is just a placebo for this company.

[@tyguy3876]

@@daktaklakpak5059 u really talking shit on Halo 1-3?? If a game is designed well but has a bad story and isn't fun, it's a shitty game.

[@termitreter6545]

Yeah, I just gave it a try and it feels way worse than Doom somehow.

[@Spaced92]

@@termitreter6545 Of course it's worse than Doom. But you know what else is worse than Doom? Nearly everything.

[@ProfessorShnacktime]

@@daktaklakpak5059 we got a live one

[@thombeacock5001]

After playing through Bungie’s 30th Anniversary content in Destiny 2, it’s pretty great to see where all the references came from and just how influential it was to Bungie’s journey to the current day.

[@Mobius_118]

It never occurred to me until now that the Marathon-Class Cruiser in Halo referred to this game series (and possibly the Marathon itself).

[@ltraltier6009]

It had a marathon logo on its side….

[@Draliseth]

​@@ltraltier6009 Almost everything did. 🤣

[@spookmeyer970]

If I remember correctly, the marathon story page (hats off, btw) says that the marathon logo was based on the idea of a world within a world, ie, the world of the marathon within the moon.

[@gwen3504]

Lord Shaxx speculates in Destiny that “MIDA” stood for “Mars Is Damnably Arid”. Given the circumstances through which MIDA tech made it to the setting of Destiny, he may be right.

[@qq13563817153]

Mars is also the site where the Darkness is doing some fucky time thing with Savathun

[@victorcaval]

Also Mida multitoll just popping into destiny universe without explanations may hint into some dimensions traveling plans

[@SudsyMedusa53]

Jesus Christ. Oh fuck. Oh holy shit. If Bungie's plan is to merge the marathon and destiny universes together I'll lose my goddamn mind. It is exactly the sort of crazy convoluted hyper-long term bullshit that they would do and have done before.

[@isaacsalume6287]

​@@SudsyMedusa53 "Ghost Fragment: Rasputin 4" from Destiny 1 has a subtle but direct reference to Durandal from Marathon Infinity in the text's second line. Or maybe he's referencing something else, who knows, but fuck if it isn't a compelling choice of words.

[@victorcaval]

@@SudsyMedusa53 i dont think they will go that far, but we did get a marathon set of armor on the 30 aniversarry celebration... so make of that as you will

[@chavesa5]

I say go for the sequels. You've always done really good content and this is some of your best. I haven't seen this intricate a retro on Marathon anywhere else and I'd genuinely love to see more.

[@genuinesaucy]

So basically the entire plot of Marathon happens because Durandal gets bored of doing his job on a multi-generational colony ship, and decides to go space joyriding in an alien FTL corvette instead. He's more or less the AI equivalent of a teenage delinquent stealing someone's car to go on a road trip. (Which would certainly explain his belligerent attitude.)

[@evinbraley]

And also solve the issue of the Heat Death of the Universe. Just minor stuff

[@MrBioWhiz]

Teens get angsty after realising they'll die one day

[@countesschewi2399]

Great review. Interesting to think that once upon a time Halo might have actually been a continuation of the trilogy. 34:41 I think some people forget that Fallen London has always been focused on more than just cosmic horror/combat - socialising and romance have been a large part of the game for a long time. (Especially if you focus entirely on persuasiveness.)

[@MandaloreGaming]

Halo was going to be set in the same universe, and while that got written out (at some point) there's still a lot of connecting threads to it in CE specifically.

[@115zombies935]

It definitely was. In a early build of CE all the Halo weapons still retain their marathon names as well as their alt fire functions. Plus there was at least one working enemy from marathon.

[@nathanielcrosby2426]

I really like how all the Bungie games reference each other in some way, like they're all interconnected in some way.

[@davida1229]

Also because all their games exists in the same “Paraverse”...

[@DerultimativeOzzy]

You have no idea how much I smiled when Bungie released their 30th anniversary pack for Destiny 2 last winter and you could unlock so many cool weapons and cosmetic armor that was heavily inspired by their older games. Most of it Halo, but a couple of Marathon things came in too. Some even mimmick certain mechanics , which don't just simply make them look cool, but actually be a unique and valuable collectors item to go for. Like the CE Magnum that behaves like its from CE is there and the Halo 2 Battle Rifle. knock off Energy swords but also the shotgun from Marathon 2. I do love these connection things. There's in the Destiny 1 and 2 game a MIDA- Multi tool as well which references Marathon and a lore tab for it is about how several people in charge of the entire local military and intelligence argue about where this gun comes from and who has the juristictions to decide if anyone should use it or not. The handler that takes care of the in-universe PvP /training department decides its perfectly fine to use a weapon from a different Timeline against each other in their simulations.

[@AwesomelyAwesome666]

You never fail to immerse me in a game I've never played and most likely never will. Hope to see the rest of the trilogy

[@Werebud63]

3:49 My god this man is putting in hints before the video even comes out. Actual genuine legend. 31:42 My god again

[@SirSilicon]

This games visual desing looks like an combination of Doom, X-Com Ufo defense and Systemshok. Perfectly fitting for the time.

[@Maioly]

The cyborg race and their capes remind me a lot.of original xcom ethereals

[@adenowirus]

There's quite a few Macintosh games that I think have similar visual style. In some cases (Diamonds 3D, ShadowWraight and its sequel Souls in the System) they just shared a member of the development team with Bungie, but there are also similarities in games like The Journeyman Project/Pegasus Prime and even the mac port of Wolfenstain 3D.

[@BloodyAltima]

So Pinnacle Station's a fun bit, it wasn't actually "removed" per se by the Legendary edition. Basically immediately after launch, it got unsalvageably corrupted on Bioware's end, to the point where fixing it would have required rebuilding it from scratch which was not considered a viable use of the company's time by either EA or Bioware's heads. None of the subsequent re-releases have bothered to fix this, and the only way to play it (without using one of the mods that essentially rebuilds it from scratch) is to do some specific download chicanery with one of the disc copies that has the DLC bundled in. Even with how bad it is, you still get reports from Bioware employees who are sad about having their labors just get scrubbed down the drain like that. It is continually impressive to me how terrible data storage security is in the games industry. You'd think an industry dominantly comprised of coders would be better about this, but then, that's humanity for you.

[@KopperNeoman]

It's not hard to see why people would think it was cut though. The "Legendary" Edition slashed the multiplayer entirely (by count, it is literally missing more DLC than the ill-fated Wii U release of ME3) and censored stuff, along with messing up a lot of subtle details like lighting. Especially with how Squeenix restored Kingdom Hearts from nothing more than the retail Final Mix release, it's not hard to lay blame.

[@awkwardcultism]

Stuff like that is why emulation is important. You can argue upstairs and down about whether emulation is ethical and in what circumstances, but it's undeniable at this point that it's important. If we want to ensure that our descendants will be able to play the same games we've played, to not only hear and watch our history but live it and enjoy it, emulation is vital. We live in a world right now where if I hear about a weird obscure Japan exclusive Super Famicom game made before I was born that I want to know more about, I don't have to read an article or watch a video about it, I can just find a copy and start playing it in less than 5 minutes. I want future generations to be able to do the same thing with games made before they were born.

[@johnnyboy2537]

​@@awkwardcultism The argument about whether emulation is ethical usually ends the second you or the other person realizes that there's a lot of games that will be lost to history without it.

[@captainscience2732]

It wasn't even Bioware that had an issue, the devs they outsourced it to, Demiurge Studios, lost the source code. So including it in the legendary edition meant rebuilding from scratch which simply wasn't worth the cost for such a dull DLC.

[@rexthewolf3149]

@@KopperNeoman you referring to square is funny considering they lost the master version of Final Fantasy 8

[@TangyMelons]

Good to see you again, was starting to get worried Seth wasn't letting you out of the crate.

[@MatthewShotAlex]

Seth finally found his medication

[@crimsonicons]

Context plz

[@lucas23453]

@@crimsonicons Sseth Tzeentach and Mandalore are both very good friends and also sound exactly the same. The context is that its a running joke they are both the same person, and that Sseth/mandalore are just alter egos or the mad ramblings of two very similar personalities in some kind of DPD system.

[@TheTGOAC]

@@lucas23453 which is pretty funny cause when you listen to enough of Mandalores videos you find he's just as twisted and edgy, maybe even more, than Seth. It's all in the small details which I sadly have watched enough to catch on to.

[@Soridan]

@@TheTGOAC Yeah, mandalore is just more subtle with his power level than the warlord. The edge is practically ester eggs in his videos.

[@marinaisnthome]

Just finished watching the Marathon Infinity video and boy oh boy, I could NEVER have guessed what I was getting into

[@JimJamTheAdmin]

Contact: Harvest is literally just the plot of Marathon but set in the Covenant era. How did I never realize this? I never played Marathon because everyone I know called it a convoluted mess of a game with terrible map design. "Some gibberish about Rome and 117 soldiers" lmao

[@jerrycan1756]

It was so weird being a Halo turbo-nerd and hearing that really Halo is just an alternate universe version of Marathon that happened to be made in the same universe by the same developers. Oh, the SPNKR rocket launcher with two shots per magazine? The alien invaders made of multiple different racial castes subservient to a single ruler-caste, one breaking away, 117 soldiers, MJOLNIR cyborgs, the energy pistol that you charge, space-terrorists, AI rampancy, this is just Halo but different.

[@MelvinDukowski]

Halo is like Marathon made for humans

[@TheNapster153]

Holy, Contact Harvest was my favourite in my collection. Solidified Johnson as a badass.

[@peppermillers8361]

it can be messy map wise, but it is a fun and very well written game at the end of the day. Hope you got around it by now.

[@JimJamTheAdmin]

@@peppermillers8361 working my way backwards through the wasteland series again, then I'm hitting up modded x-com, I have abandoned most modern games, just replaying the classics so it's on my list when I get around to the boomer shooters.

[@LateNightHalo]

16:50 same. That level feels like some kind of crime

[@USEC_OFFICER]

The original release of Aleph One had to recreate the maps for the (relatively) new engine, and the mapper fixed the puzzle in that level. You could just hit switches and move on without any timing needed. That was eventually replaced for authenticity, and these days Aleph One can read the original map files. That doesn't stop me from being a little bit upset that the fix was removed.

[@SpecterVonBaren]

I don't feel like he really got it through to me how bad it is. I don't doubt that it's a frustrating level that's just as bad as he says, but I don't feel like I really "got it" just from what he said here.

[@dooplon5083]

@@SpecterVonBaren trust me, as someone that loves this game it's a special kind of hell that has to be played to be understood. In essence, t's like death by a thousand cuts: the layers of tedium would, on their own, be no real issue, but there's just so _much_ slow and lengthy backtracking to adjust platforms in minute ways that you can barely measure that it just wears on you something awful it's insane. The two saving graces are that all the platforms past the middle can be roughly the same height since the middle platform is controlled by shooting a grenade at a switch while standing on it and that any changes you get _right_ can be made permanent by using a save terminal (which you gotta backtrack to reach but hey at least you do it rarely lol). In any case, the game's free so if you wanna see it for yourself you've got options lol

[@solarwind3656]

While I do think the level is in poor taste, the entire game is based around a maniacal AI that wants to laugh at you getting confused. The level is tedious and doesn't really advance the story or really feel like it serves a purpose on the ship, but it has a really thoughtful terminal about how Durandal doesn't want to die out like candle flames and a funny secret terminal that gets an even funnier sequel in Marathon 2.

[@peppermillers8361]

@@SpecterVonBaren I am one of those weirdos who didn't mind Colony ship for Sale. Honestly, I was surprised that it wasn't as bad as I expected when I had the realization of how the puzzle works. If you more or less realize how the platforming works in Marathon (which I thankfully did), it's pretty easy to plan out.

[@Salty_C.J.]

one of my favorite series, the recent destiny anniversary event was chock full of easter eggs from marathon most of which i feel went right over most players heads. still being able to use marathon weapons in a modern game is a dream come true

[@Salty_C.J.]

aand on that note its a crime the SPNKR wasnt included in that event considering its in both marathon and halo

[@solthegamer3769]

@@Salty_C.J. It's an ornament for Gjallerhorn

[@TalentHouseAd]

I have to say, thanks to your review, I was mentally prepared for "Colony for Sale Cheap", and I beat it in one night. I was scared when I realized where I was, but I was ready, and figured it out! Thanks for doing this awesome review!

[@jansenart0]

"Jealousy" is when you're guarding something you want no one else to have. "Envy" is when you want something someone else has.

[@StrikeWarlock]

I never knew that. I always assumed that they were synonyms.

[@rintv3675]

@@StrikeWarlock they actually are synonyms and can be used interchangeably when you want to convey the feeling of ( being covetous, or to want something someone else has ) However, since English is English, it also has an alternate meaning in the end, which is to be overly protective of one's (own) possessions. You tend to have to be specific in using it though if you want a "specific" meaning to shine through.

[@diamondmetal3062]

I thought that was greed

[@jansenart0]

@@rintv3675 You're just wrong, dude. They're similar in that they express desire for possession, that's it.

[@rintv3675]

@@jansenart0 Historical usage begs to differ, which is how words change meaning. Hell, jealous can even mean suspicious of infidelity ( a jealous husband/boyfriend) with regards to their lover. And that's a dictionary meaning at work.

[@wimbusbert1249]

Every time I'm like "Damn, I could really go for a Mandalore video right about now." BAM there it is.

[@audiosurfarchive]

_Ever wonder what the bottom of a BOBs foot looked like..?_

[@ZeroKitsune]

Please think about it more often then!!!

[@All4Tanuki]

Between this and Colville's video about the ARG-ish story unfolding around those days, I feel like I've experienced everything positive about this game. Thanks Mandy!

[@Goozeeeee]

Heyyy! I saw that too, definitely recommend others checking it out if this interests you

[@OminousPortent]

Truly, a river to his people...

[@PedroKing19]

What's Colville's vídeo please. Also amazing username

[@Incurafy]

@@PedroKing19 Matthew Colville's video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/rXqYmXmVbs1sZpI

[@aravindpallippara1577]

there is also a take by errant signal on the mechanics of marathon in relation to other shooters

[@andrewwales8827]

16:53 See, that's just Durandal fucking with you. 10/10 character moment.

[@rickimaru915]

I love how Red VS Blue used Marathon for when a character travelled in to the past

[@alexfrost2799]

It's funny how obscure of a reference that was for most Halo/RvB fans

[@SereneMidnight12]

"There's plenty of other pathways into darkness to follow already..." I see what you did there.

[@zapdragon23]

he also dropped minotaur and abuse

[@LethinGabbins]

Great video, bungie was way ahead of its time with marathon. I'm also glad to see Myth was a real game and not some random game I remember that no one else touched.

[@LethinGabbins]

@Eclipze MMG k.

[@VoidSmoker97]

@Eclipze MMG you say that yet Halo is still very relevant and wouldn’t have been a thing without this series

[@VoidSmoker97]

@Eclipze MMG yeah but you were only right about it being dead, irrelevant is a bit of a stretch considering even Destiny 2 makes some references to it

[@VoidSmoker97]

@Eclipze MMG mayhaps, either way dead or irrelevant, why bother pointing it out? I ain’t even that into this series much tbh but seems redundant to mention

[@MrTheta-lc8zy]

@@VoidSmoker97 a chunk of the games mandalore reviews aren’t relevant. So why be anal about marathon being irrelevant?

[@jakejutras5420]

That Black Dynamite reference was so out of left field and absolutely amazing.

[@edgymacarthur1392]

You absolutely should do the other two marathon games next. These look awesome.

[@Eji1700]

The plot in this game was the first time I realized just how clever a game story could be. Wonderful work and love all the PID references

[@lukecotton3076]

this is a certified mandalore moment

[@akmzd6938]

I played Marathon for the first time around 12 years ago knowing only that it was made by the same company that made Halo. Obviously I've forgotten many of the details (so I greatly appreciate this video for that alone), but the experience has somehow stuck with me. Despite its flaws/peculiarities, it's a game worthy of my highest praise - that "It Feels Special When You Play It".

[@TheTGOAC]

As someone who's as casual at fps as one can get, it's impressive whenever I learn just how long companies like Bungie have been around.

[@adenowirus]

It's also interesting that both EA and Activision were started by game developers tired of being treated like crap by the big soulless companies.

[@vladcucu9186]

I think something that contributes to the look is the fact that the enemies and weapons seem to be hand-drawn, and have that look of weird colors and gradients from digital art programs of the time, while other games of the time had pixel art or pre-rendered CGI models.

[@Enderguy059]

Or scanned 3D models made from modelling clay and toy gun parts

[@tomemaster1744]

The thing I always liked about Marathon was the enemy design. I think that’s something Bungie specialises in because it’s the same reason I liked Halo and Destiny.

[@joshuawilliams9247]

The key is having an iconic outline and color scheme that is instantly recognizable even from a very far distance.

[@Daburubareru]

The level design remind me a lot of Blood and Doom.

[@icyjiub2228]

@@Daburubareru I don't know. Marathon seems like the kind of level design that's closer to Wolfenstein than the good parts of the original Doom. Though Modern Doom WADS do their best to get away from straight up mazes.

[@hassanoleary]

I first played the Marathon trilogy when I was about nine or ten years old and it, more than any other game, really expanded my horizons about what storytelling in games *could* be. Considering this came out not long after the original Doom, it completely blew my mind that a game could feature a story that takes digging to uncover. Looking back, I wonder how many hours I spent replaying the game or studying the Marathon's Story page to better understand the plot. The plot. Of a first person shooter from the mid-90s. Going on thirty years later and I still walk around with a Marathon symbol jacket.

[@Draliseth]

Dude. I'm jealous.

[@caydenberry2411]

Oh my God you actually did it! Easily one of the most entertaining, convoluted stories I've ever experienced in a game, trapped behind mazes and easily the worst puzzle I've ever had to do in a game (Colony Ship For Sale's). Fantastic work!

[@nanneth4203]

I honestly hope this encourages more people to go back and play these classics. The story is without question the center of the trilogy, and I think it's fair to say that the story has not only stood the test of time, but outshines even the Halo games, in large part because of what they are willing to leave unexplained.

[@thegreatcthulhu8049]

Dual wielding in a 1st person sci-fi game always makes me nostalgic. Picking up dual SMGs in Halo 2 for the first time.... Ahhh the memories

[@JoBar71377]

As a LONG time Marathon fan, this was amazing to watch. (I spent years on the Marathon Story page as a teen)

[@mortified0]

Mandalore erupting into crazed laughter was scarier than any of the other creepy stuff in this video

[@Daniel_Lancelin]

That was close. Sseth almost took control for a second.

[@thecandlemaker1329]

And then he claims to not be Civvie. Yeah right.

[@coprographia]

Marathon’s level design will do that.

[@MrDmitriRavenoff]

I played Marathon Infinity back in the late 90's with my neighbor over an honest to God phone line we ran between our computers. We had our own 2 person LAN before I knew what that was. He was very computer savvy.

[@michaelman957]

That description of the Halo show being a ghoul spawned by CW is... apt, and deserves to be repeated

[@Sneakyboson]

Marathons lore is the coolest out of any FPS game for sure. I remember trawling thru the old school Marathon Story Page as a teen trying to piece everything together. The game gets so deep into metaphysics and philosophy that it bends the mind.

[@Shenaldrac]

"There's plenty of other pathways into darkness to follow already so let me get started." I see what you did there, Mandalore. I look forward to the inevitable review.

[@randallpetersen9164]

That cracked me up too. I wonder how many viewers got it?

[@Shenaldrac]

@@randallpetersen9164 At least 2 so far, you and me!

[@zapdragon23]

he also snuck minotaur and abuse in

[@desgoyomama3274]

Mind sharing the deep lore with an ignorant fool?

[@brycec7050]

man i thought this was a house of leaves reference

[@seraaron]

Matt Colville recently did a video about the stories from the Marathron forums and the ARG stuff before Halo was announced, if anyone is interested in learning more about that side of things. This series, and its developers, have a really interesting history!

[@dylangosland1227]

Do you happen to have a link? I've had some trouble finding that one :(

[@seraaron]

@@dylangosland1227 I don't think I can share links on YT comments, but just try typing in "mattew colville the second greatest story in gaming! halo" and it should be the first result

[@adamofblastworks1517]

@@seraaron you can post links in comments.

[@Staleyisnowinchains]

I was, and still am in a certain way, completly obsessed with this game and its story. Thank you for reminding me such a big part of my childhood, this game alone is the reason why I love so much science fiction and philosophy now. And please, DO play Marathon 2 and Marathon Infinity. The later has alternate timelines which, mixed with this stellar writing, makes it a superb experience. and *SPOILERS* space cthulhu, lol

[@sandwich_masterX]

When I was little, we called the enemies "Googoflgoofs" due to the sound they made. Great memories.

[@Taractis]

I would LOVE to see videos on the sequels. My first memory of this franchise is playing the second one (I think) and the first terminal I interacted with was full of insane gibberish about biblical candy machines, while Durandel was still able to tell me where to go using the map images.

[@Raznab]

Marathon is my favorit shooter franchise so I'm so happy to see some content about it. I think a companion vid about Pathways into Darkness would be great as its lore directly feeds into the end goal of the Marathon trilogy.

[@shaynehughes6645]

This is all your fault

[@Raznab]

@@shaynehughes6645 You're welcome?

[@BigboiiTone]

Marathon has such a cool story, it doesn't really feel like a "boomer shooter" to me. And of course, the Halo parallels are an absolute joy that any Halo fan would enjoy. Edit: Thank you for calling out that "Colony Ship for Sale, cheap!" mission. What an absolute nightmare of jank.

[@peppermillers8361]

I mean, it plays somewhat differently to most of those games in terms of mechanics (not controls), closest comparison I can think of is System Shock.

[@BigboiiTone]

@@peppermillers8361 it's more of an "intellectuals" game

[@alexfrost2799]

Man, it's wild seeing the prototype for a lot of things Halo would later end up refining. Just like how a bunch of things in Halo: Reach were prototypes for Destiny. Also, really love your use of a clip from 'Rise of the Spartans' Part 6 at 4:16. I had no idea you'd even seen that Machinima until now

[@TheParadoxGamer1]

It took me back a decade and wow did it feel like whiplash

[@ShadowOfCygnus]

3:50 I see you there. ;P If you end up doing the full series, Pathways could be an interesting point to cover in more depth -- not just for the various plot connections to Marathon (and the spin on epistolary storytelling in its own right) but for the frankly insane amount of effort they went to to keep the enemy variety interesting throughout the course of the game. Thanks for covering this ol' gem. I know you've mentioned in a couple (?) of past reviews, but it was great to see the story in particular get the full treatment here.

[@redslate]

Great rundown on the story. Would love to see the other two games covered (particularly Infinity).

[@NeoGato2point0]

I'm thankful to see any sparse coverage of this game. This was perhaps the first real FPS I ever played back on an ancient grey Mac. I personally feel like this game can go toe-to-toe with Doom, but often gets overshadowed by it.

[@gregoryberrycone]

it definitely doesn't play as well as doom