Autolysis: The Silent Mead Killer?

[@ZachMcCrary]

It’s one of those controversial things where everyone has an opinion. For my beers, I rack after about 2 weeks. Meads, I rack once during the primary just to slow it down a bit and remove some of the lees that are going to get in the way later anyway. There’s no perfect way to do anything, just do what has worked for you. Thanks for the video, as always, great work.

[@ManMadeMead]

You’re totally right there is no perfect way to do it, we are all figuring this out ourselves! Hopefully I’m providing some evidence on good and bad techniques through my videos!

[@jeremy5354]

I’ve found that ec1118 is good for a while. I’ve left it on for over a month with no noticeable change, but every brew is different. I wouldn’t worry about autolysis for 2-3 months rather than weeks with any yeast that’s bred for brewing.

[@bybeezguepe6557]

With yeast lees (no fruits), it takes a few months to happen (you're good for 4-6 months at least from what I read) and there are some discussions about the risks of autolysis at homebrewing scales (without several hundred pounds of mead on top).

[@ManMadeMead]

Time for some testing!

[@yourmetalgod69]

@@ManMadeMead there is a video of a guy doing 5-7 year wild ferments, he is a Beekeeper from russia I am sure you have seen the video. I would love to know his take on this and to try a few of his brews out so see what really aged brew tastes like lol.

[@sipplix]

How long a brew can sit on the dead yeast is also dependent on temperature, lower temps can sit for longer times. Also high alcohol and sweet brews can sit for a long time. I had a corn wine sit on Lee’s for 2 years and it racked and bottled just fine, but was very sweet and high alc%.

[@bucmeister7713]

Interesting, have never heard of corn wine, corn liquor yes, corn wine no. Actually makes sense though, just never thought about it. Do you start with fresh corn or grain corn?

[@sipplix]

@@bucmeister7713 , I started with polenta, crushed dry corn.

[@bucmeister7713]

@@sipplix Thanks. Definitely going to have to take a run at making a batch of corn wine.

[@sipplix]

@@bucmeister7713 I sourced it from a book which you can get online I think called “Drink Your Own Garden” by Judith Glover. Her recipes make some nice sweet wines that take more than 12 months to mature, from almost any fruit or vegetable.

[@shelleyhanson9850]

Reading the comments I see there are alot of opinions about this! Thanks for your input and bringing it to a discussion. I am surprised nobody else has done this test. I look forward to the experiment. I think that's part of the reason I appreciate your method. You always put some science to it.

[@ManMadeMead]

I hope to put science behind it. We will see when I get the testing done!

[@jenslyn42]

I appreciate this video, very informative. My experience is that I've never had any issues what so ever with leaving the lease till I into bottles, but now at least I have a better understanding of why you (and several other youtubers) rack so darn often :)

[@seshadrisrinath]

I used Voss Kveik (71B) and it sat on the sediment in the secondary for 2+ months. The temperature was between 55 and 60 that whole time. It actually turned up very very clean tasting.

[@bucmeister7713]

Interesting presentation on something that was vaguely in the recesses of my mind, when and why to rack. Newb to the whole gambit of brewing meads and wines. First mead attempt was 2 identical brews with only the yeast being different, Fleischmann's bread yeast vs EC-1118. The bread yeast @10.2 ABV gave a more mellow result but was cloudy whereas the EC-1118 gave a harsh result, was very clear, and had 13.1 ABV. Thanks for the information, looking forward to the experiment.

[@RootedVideo]

At a winery, I was watching a demonstration on champagne style sparkling wine. They bottle carbonate - let the lees drop to the neck - then remove the lees and add sugar to back sweeten . I asked if they have to worry about fermentation kicking off again - they said actually yeast die off after 9+ months of inactivity - so it wasn't a concern for them. I haven't fact checked it - but it was what they said.

[@ManMadeMead]

I’ve had some batches kick back up after a year unfortunately...

[@DaleDuffy]

Good video, I'm new at this, first I've heard of autolysis....thanks again MMM.

[@mycrazylifewfawnlisette3582]

@around 6 mins....what did u notice as a flavor effector??

[@DanCooper404]

Wow, I had this saved to watch later, and just threw the 1st video on to listen to while I rack my newest batch of mead. Lol. Perfect!

[@SO-ro5gr]

Just made a really simple one but made the mistake of using a honey and corn syrup knock off. Contained potassium sorbate. It got to 3 or 4 percent and floculated and ended. Lesson learned luckily not an expensive batch. Just 1 dollar for the gallon one 33 cents for the yeast and 1.25 for the juice crystals.

[@yourmetalgod69]

I am finding that fruit are far more sensitive to this than yeast. the fruit will just go bad, peaches and passionfruit have been my hardest to deal with to date, I am vigilant knowing this but man you can get this beautiful golden brew one day and the next it turns this putrid brown color. I am speed fermenting those fruits now with Kveik yeast and heating the brew to about 85ºf so it takes 8-9 days to complete instead of 2-4 weeks and that seems to be helping. I am also not blending those fruit as much anymore(poormans juicing) just to make it easier to get it all out of the brew so it can give me all the flavors but doesn't have time to go bad on me. I little sourness is fine and can be balanced out but full on rot just sucks. strangely Berries I have not had the same issue with at all, they can sit in primary for a month and be just fine. live and learn and the brews will get better and better.

[@TheUrbanFarmerBlog]

Thanks so much. Great topic.

[@lynkriger]

Yeast type does make a difference! I did a side by side test on D47 vs 71B. I let both sit on the lees for 3 months. The 71B had a noticeable offtaste but the d47 tasted just fine. I definitely agree with the two rack method. It’s important to get your must off of all those dead yeasts and sediment. Makes the flavors you are working with jump out more. The longer you let it sit the more character it seems to pull from the yeast. So the d47 was more fruity while the 71B was more floral. I equate this into biting into a flower vs biting into a fruit. Two very different experiences. The floral being the one requiring more balance to be palatable.

[@ManMadeMead]

I’m working on a test between D47 and 71B currently and there are definitely some clear differences!

[@ozoneswiftak]

I Used 71b on 15 lbs of honey in a 5 gallon carboy. It tastes incredibly good.

[@southernstacker7315]

Why do I play air guitar without realizing it everytime I hear this damn intro music?? Good info that I didn't know. Thanks brother!

[@nathanielsizemore8594]

Good morning. At the beginning of your video I saw the tip of the cat tail going by. Your cat wants something. 😄😄😄

[@rjfiles1697]

Love your videos man keep up the good work!

[@thomastodd9333]

I have the D47 yeast and 10lbs of Clover honey. I have a 5 gallon rig. How long should I expect it to ferment? I'm a noob. Ball park estimate.

[@ManMadeMead]

Anywhere between 2 - 4 weeks generally!

[@unsane78]

I've been making wine for about 10 years and have never had an infected batch but I'm making an mead now, which is only about my 3rd ever. It's close to done fermenting, it's been going for 3 weeks. Last week it started getting a white film on top. Is this normal for mead or is it a bad batch?

[@johndouglas1848]

One thing I've noticed is this seems to effect low ABV brews more than higher. I've experienced this with beer but not with mead, but then that might be the yeasts. I wonder if when you test this you might try some yeast at high and low ABV... I'd be interested to see the results. I left a beer to long once on a safe ale 05, I won't do that again! 😄

[@ManMadeMead]

Currently working on a test to see if Autolysis affects a mead after a year!

[@johndouglas1848]

@@ManMadeMead well that's a thing, does the flavour dissipate with age?

[@maheshlund3951]

Hi bro 😊 Bro I'd got 2kg of raw honey 🍯of small bees last week which was full of tannin cause it was collected by my hands directly from trees having said that i put that to ferment into a plastic jar and temperature round here is pretty hot its 40°C/42°C but after 8/10 days fermentation has stopped there're no bubbles, what to do please suggest, thanks ☺️

[@johnpaulsmajda]

I suggest going to homebrewtalk.com if you want a question like this answered rather than a youtube comments section. Further, I suggest using sentences and methods of punctuation. In your entire comment you only have one comma at the end.

[@ManMadeMead]

It sounds it likes time to put your mead into a different container to age for a bit!

[@ManMadeMead]

It sounds it likes time to put your mead into a different container to age for a bit!

[@headstr8392]

I just racked My first Capsumel. It's the first time iv made it and it taste like a jalapeño sweet vinegar. Have you had any of your brews turn into vinegar?

[@ManMadeMead]

I have! Most of them are because of too much oxygen after fermentation has occurred!

[@koalaifestyle]

Now I'm curious... Have you ever tried using the lees left after racking, and just adding another round of must for a perpetual ferment like kombucha? Wonder how that could effect the flavor of the second batch.

[@Roger-1j4]

This works well. Yeasts have individual character, and just as with animal husbandry, you can artificial select what you like. I've stopped trying to select for ABV, and am not selecting for the kind of flavor it imparts. Only time I have to use packet yeast is when I got too close to my limit last year and had to let the stuff die off. I don't use the lees per se, rather select the live yeast culture in primary. If I don't like the flavor, well, OK, all the rest made from that line are suboptimal, but, really, that's what Lalvin and Red Star and everyone else are doing, too.

[@Roger-1j4]

Oops. "Now selecting", instead of "not selecting".

[@baijokull]

I think you're wrong if you're sticking to your statement of "always rack off the sediment after 2-3 weeks". It depends on the yeasts, the ingredients and the environment it's in (like pretty much everything when it comes to brewing). Sometimes letting the mead sit on the lees for a longer time can improve the flavor (which will always be a subjective opinion).

[@LegendaryPkl]

I just racked my mead about 20m ago... absolutely rancid. either i didnt de-gass it enough, or the thistle honey was not a good idea, or yea - the 1"+ of sediment was probably not good. really disappointing after a month. i can only describe the smell as cutting some ivy or thistle and smelling the white fluid... x1000000 was the D-47 as well. shame - 6 gal down the drain. rarely have i ever gagged from homebrew.. but tonight i did xD subb'd

[@ManMadeMead]

That's interesting! It sounds like you had some stressed yeast that created a fusel! It can happen sometimes!

[@CogoGaming]

It would be super nice if you did some more research in your videos to prove your point. I know there are a bunch of scientific papers on yeast online on multiple aspects of brewing

[@jsaucee1]

Can not say I agree with you on a three week racking from primary. This will freak people out enough to rack it too early before fermentation is even done. If this is not what you mean it sure sounds like what you're promoting. How do you know that it has changed a meads taste? You would have to do a side by side test.

[@edwardgibb3981]

As he said, he plans to test this at some point

[@jsaucee1]

@@edwardgibb3981 I heard him say that. My contention lies in him saying it harms a brew PRIOR to doing this test. Some newbies might take this as gospel. When people who have been making beer agree it's best to pull beer off lees sooner unless it's a lager which is a slower fermentation. I have let meads sit on it's lees with many different yeasts for months and not been concerned in the least. Having the same sit on a fruit or other solid is a totally different thing altogether. 🍻 🍻 🍻 Cheers 🍻 🍻 🍻

[@johnaldIV]

You can tell when off..is off.

[@jsaucee1]

@@johnaldIV ?? I'm sure you meant something

[@ManMadeMead]

Time for some testing!