Mapless Dungeons

Do we need a map?
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#inspiration #Adventuredesign

[@LordRodri]

While not exactly game reviews, an "ideas you can take from other games" video would be really neat!

[@Grimlore82]

Damn good idea 👊

[@BanditsKeep]

Interesting

[@dane3038]

For that, let me recommend Forbidden Lands. There is an Encounters section in the GM's guide that has a lot of fun little scenes. *It's not like those "100 encounters" PDFs that are filled with nonsense like "A woman runs past the party screaming". it's stuff you will want to use.

[@dantherpghero2885]

The algo demands a title like: Steal these 7 ideas from this game.

[@thatguy846]

This is good. Very good.

[@seanfsmith]

one of my favourite "mapless" dungeons is to describe the layout of a public building I know really well - I used to work in schools and they are excellently odd shapes to explore!

[@BanditsKeep]

I like that!

[@bouin91]

That's a really good idea! I never thought of that.

[@ericjome7284]

I have used mapless play. Think of it like navigating by landmarks instead of measuring. When you come to the stone circle, head west until you reach the river. You just do a nodes and edges map that describes the relationship between important points.

[@MrMuertoloco]

Could have an adventure hook by finding a half drawn map ( with goblin blood on it)into a dungeon with location of dungeon

[@MrMuertoloco]

Or if they kill a goblin, find a map of a tunnel system leading towards the kingdom.

[@Xplora213]

This seems like is the answer however I think you genuinely need some kind of measurement because dungeon crawlers are ALWAYS a race against time. Movement is literally shuffling forward and time is food. Maybe time is money. Time is also healed hit points. The mapless concept MUST influence the players to feel the danger or anxiety of time.

[@TwinSteel]

It’s called “A Different Way to Run Dungeons” by The Shop on the Borderlands - i saved it when it came out 3 weeks ago - one point you may have forgotten since then is that this system allows groups to explore larger dungeons, like the Fellowship did, making it thru miles of underworld in the equivalent of a few sessions instead of over an entire campaign - that seemed to be the situation in which he occasionally uses this method

[@BanditsKeep]

Ah yes, that sounds right!

[@cms910]

Mike Mignola’s art in that Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser comic is so good. Great video poster image!

[@BanditsKeep]

Yes, I really enjoyed the graphic novel tellings. So much so I’m re-reading “swords masters”

[@BanjoSick]

Love that one as well. Bandits is the king of thumbnail, it is known!

[@maxchait5839]

Something I've been adding to my games as a GM since watching your channel for the past month is tables, lots of random generation tables make up most of my prep. It's added so much fun of "discovering" with the players instead of making things for the players. Idk if other GMs have a similar experience, but generating a dungeon in the fly, rolling to see what clues to a mystery are discovered in a location, and rolling for mundane village events to make the town feel more alive has been just wonderful for my games

[@wilmartinez1]

@Banditskeep yes do a video about Crown and skull

[@BanditsKeep]

😊

[@jeanMvang]

Please do it's such a fun system to read and Hank is a really smart guy. Love his podcast the RPG mainframe.

[@jeanMvang]

I'm so happy you're talking about Crown and Skull!! Please talk about it more. I love all of your content but talking about other systems mainly crown and skull would be amazing!

[@MrWMyself]

I was actually trying to design my own system for a narrative dungeon crawl, since my players and I aren’t interested in doing a traditional torches and 10 ft poles style crawl… so it’s awesome that you made this video when you did! I’m very interested in this point crawl dungeon idea! I had the bones for it figured out already, but having a name for it will make it so much easier to find pre existing resources! Thank you!

[@BanditsKeep]

Awesome

[@majkus]

Back in the '70s, our group tried 'Kubla Khan mapping', where the GM did not give detailed measurements-the name was from the Coleridge poem, where the sacred river ran 'through caverns measureless to man'.

[@BanditsKeep]

Nice, I often read in fiction things like “a spear throw” or “an arrow shot” and think that would be a fun abstract

[@macewen1]

I distinctly recall the joy of moving from describing rooms dimensionally to drawing everything out on a chessex battle mat. I did encourage someone to copy the map so my groups still had their own copy of the map.

[@BanditsKeep]

Nice!

[@joshbennett5592]

Unless I need to graph out a specific dungeon, I grab a Dyson map based on the dungeon theme, then populate it like an old school dungeon (1/3 filled with monsters). Minimal keys and end everything fits on a page or on facing pages. Anything spur of the moment I use geomorphs.

[@Grimlore82]

Oh? What are these Dyson maps you speak of?

[@BanditsKeep]

Dyson is such a great creator

[@ochrejellydonut]

@@Grimlore82 google Dyson Logos. a damn good map making blog

[@ahabstar]

I too will hit up Dyson or Don Jon and then populate it as I see fit as well as traps and locked doors.

[@joshbennett5592]

@@Grimlore82 search up Dyson Logos. He makes free maps and dungeon geomorphs mostly for free.

[@DaigotsuSoetsu]

I totally forgot we used to do this back in AD&D and early 3.0. Before the days we used grid paper battle maps, before the 1" dry erase grid, and before the Dwarven Forge terrain. This video brought me way back~

[@BanditsKeep]

Nice!

[@razorboy251]

Crown and Skull does this mapless dungeon exploration extremely well! I can't say that my players enjoyed the core game system very much though. The book could also use a bit more clarity and additional rules (yes I know the GM is encouraged to make rulings and such, but I feel there are some quite common actions and questions that players are bound to have that the book does not help to answer).

[@BanditsKeep]

I haven’t got it to the table so I can’t speak on what works in play.

[@chrisderhodes7629]

Yeah same, my group tried Crown & Skull for a few months but decided to wrap it up. The book just has so many holes and problems, it feels unfinished.

[@Braincain007]

The way that the OSR actual play 3d6 Down The Line does it has really been growing on me. They use maps and do player mapping for dungeon exploration, but combat is actually theater of the mind. that way they have the sense of the rooms and what they can do but still have room for improvisation and dont get too caught up in moving x squares

[@brettsimpson1505]

Another great video, Daniel. Thank you. I saw the video you spoke of (but can’t remember who made it either), and I’m glad it inspired you to make this one. The random rolling for encounter/location is something I use often - it’s particularly useful for mazes. It can lead to some comical situations if you roll the same thing numerous times (“You lot! Back again!”). I use just about every method I can think of when it comes to designing and DMing dungeons. Keep it fresh. It doesn’t take long before any dungeon becomes a living thing, familiar and terrifying!

[@mightystu49]

I've enjoyed watching a lot of your stuff recently, but knowing you're a Sandwiches of History guy too makes me like your channel even more!

[@BanditsKeep]

Ha ha 🥪

[@Mekhami]

I'd be excited to hear what you think about the dungeon crawling mapping procedure in His Majesty the Worm, one of the most exciting games I've picked up in years. Basically, the gist of it is you give your players the map of the dungeon before you even start! Unkeyed, obviously, it shouldn't include what's _in_ the dungeon, but with room numbers on the map. The players don't have to worry about spatial accuracy, and they have the shared language (room numbers) so that they can easily communicate about what they want to do. Then, during the "camp phase", they can "work on the map" in character, marking that they have mapped rooms 1, 2, 3 etc. The benefit of that is, when they're moving through those rooms later, they move more quickly and with less risk. For a megadungeon crawl game, that becomes invaluable. Anyways, I think it's a modern, not-tedious approach to mapping that gives players some amount of control while reducing expectations as much as possible.

[@TaylorAvery1]

This has been a subject I have been working through as a DM for the last couple years running stonehell megadungeon in a public game at our FLG. I am moving closer to a point crawl style hybrid game these days as trying to convey the complex spaces in the mega dungeon gets really tedious when our group's playtime is relatively short. I am currently using modular dry-erase squares that map each space in the dungeon as close as is reasonable and using mini's and terrain bits on top. I think my solution is something like PDM's Ultimate dungeon terrain circle for showing specific room layouts and combat scenes and everything else (hallways and extraneous spaces) is theater of the mind. Curious to hear your thoughts on this!

[@Peppershaker]

love ur content and ive been running a crown and skull game for months now so its awesome to see u talk about my favorite game! i particularly love its way of handling vancian styled magic in a freeform way that really feels like the pcs are researching spells!

[@bhorrthunderhoof4925]

Well during my over 35 years of TTRPG (only once DnD recently) concerning maps and floorplans I tried out nearly everything except Diorama Dungeons. Recently I went back to theater of the minds and let the player draw the map if they feel they need one. Depending on what they ask and what I think their characters would remark because of their formation and background I answer them. Only seldom do I correct the maps then perceptions can be wrong as we all have learned in real life and all depends on your point of view. Still it is important that you also know when to break your own rules. So in one episode (we mix real life meetings with online ones) during an online session they finally cornered a "boss monster" in a cave with several layers and bad lightning which has several entrances. In this challenging environment I used a battle map I have found earlier. And this time I had the map first before I worked out the location. This helps a lot when you want to use maps. The other way round - you will never find what exactly corresponds to your vision. Best advice in this case - draw it yourself no matter how bad, you will save hours and hours. Great video thanks. I love to see more from Bandit's Keep

[@pangopod2969]

Damn. I discovered your channel just today and i love your approach. I'm not always 100% agreeing with you but always interrested in your way to see and design things. ❤

[@BanditsKeep]

Welcome!

[@PaladinProse]

Yes dude! Crown & Skull's mapless dungeons are such a breath of fresh air.

[@BanditsKeep]

For sure

[@solomani-42]

10:18 I am going to try this at some point. This is what I do currently (and for a few years now) as my PCs don't like mapping (or megadungeons - though not due to lack of trying). I use playing cards to navigate the dungeon in a boardgame/semi-abstract way. For example, dungeon level 1 has 10 rooms. I take 10 playing cards from one suite and randomise them. I ask the players to shuffle in a joker. They then draw cards until they find the joker which lets them go down another level. Each room is linked to a card number. For each card drawn I tick off 10 minutes and ask the PCs to roll a 1d6 to see if there is a random encounter between rooms. PC can always go back to any room or stairs/exit they have found "instantly" (usually 10 minutes per level or some such), they just need to roll for random encounters. This has worked really well, and my players now prefer it.

[@BanditsKeep]

That sounds simple and effective

[@orkcol]

when im making maps i am mostly a flowchart mapper, 3 bullet points for each area, once statement for the arrow between nodes. ill never go back, i feel it gives me the balance i like and need. to populate my maps i have started using a method i saw on a Bastionland video for encounter tables where Chris McDowall (into the odd creator) uses themes you want and mix them to create a table, its quite cool. video: Bastionland: preparing for an RPG Session - 3 small tips i think Cairn has got a lot of high praise, and its seed, Into the odd has sort of missed out on this thanks to its odd setting. some of the GM tips in into the odd and electric bastionland along with the session prep/map creation examples he has on his channel are great. Crown and skull clearly has some elements inspired by it.

[@BanditsKeep]

Into the odd is one of my favorite games, I sadly, rarely play.

[@jeremydurdil556]

For me, maps have always been a primary element of the game since the BECMI red box taught me to play back in 1987. I always loved the different map symbols and the cartography of a dungeon. When I create a “dungeon”, I start out with simple blank paper and make a simple block diagram of the dungeon rooms. Just boxes for rooms and lines for corridors. Populating the boxes with their traps and inhabitants. Then convert that simple outline to graph paper. Numbering each room and writing up specific information for each numbered room in a notebook. When you are done you have the adventure module ready to go. Just like the pros used to do it. Good luck out there. Thanks for the fine work as always Daniel. BECMI Forever! Long Live King Elmore!!

[@vagnmoore]

The Dolmenwood campaign I'm running is lucky to have a very artistic player who is really into dungeon mapping. His accurate and detailed maps have allowed the PCs to make some very tactical and informed choices that were the difference between life and death

[@CalebAP1]

On Mapless, the very improv/character driven Campaign Skyjacks used their Ilimat deck (tarot inspired game) as a dice roll for creating the dungeon as they explored. It is something I’d enjoy using with some inspiration from the hexcrawl Heart. Each suit means something (heart for resource, spade for combat, diamond for treasure, club for roleplay, for example) and then be loose about the intensity of the encounter. This immediately feels like an Underdark/Veins of the Earth style game, but I can see it working for dungeons, too.

[@EcowarriorII]

I’ve been using the Shadowdark map creator. I started hand drawing the maps about a year ago. The slower process gives me plenty of time to think about the dungeon and to add depth or embellish the prompts given.

[@BanditsKeep]

Nice!

[@Slit518]

Daniel, could you do a video on how you describe a dungeon in ways that players can draw it with ease?

[@BanditsKeep]

That’s a good idea!

[@paul-the-pilgrim]

I second this!

[@ohfoti]

3d6DTL has a video on this where the GM and mapper give a demo and tips

[@Anticitizen2501]

Crown and Skull is awesome. At first I wasn't so keen on mapless dungeons, but they have totally grown on me! I would love to see your take on the custom spells in that book and any fun spells you've maybe come up with - so that I can steal them haha! Thank you for all your awesome videos - only recently found your channel and it's been extremely helpful in my quest to become a better dungeon master.

[@BanditsKeep]

I haven’t had a chance to play C&S yet, so I don’t have any awesome spell stories, but hopefully soon when my schedule opens up a bit

[@Anticitizen2501]

@@BanditsKeep haha, yeah finding the time for all these great new games is challenging! Take care - thanks! 😊

[@jnov3655]

I typically create dungeons the same way I always have. I pick a main monster, then some creatures that go along with them. I used to make a detailed map next but now I look online for a map that will work. I always have a map though. If we're at the table I draw it out on a plastic covered grid board with erasable markers.

[@underfire987]

Great video, it depends for me for dungeons , I have one that is based under " The City of Silence" its a mass burial catacombs, inspired by the Paris Catacombs and other ones dotted across Europe. It will be a randomly generated each time the group delves into it ( as they likely cannot get the same entrance twice since the area is well guarded ) the one guiding rule is the higher layers are more maintained and hence " safe" the lower levels are less safe and filled with unknown terrors of the undead and unclean spirits, but more chance of finding rare and valuable items.

[@lyleenright6774]

I also wanna shout out Chris McDowell's Mythic Bastionland and its Site Exploration procedures. I use these *constantly* to build my dungeons, connecting different sites together and laying random encounters. Absolutely amazing tool.

[@BanditsKeep]

Nice! I have electric, but not mythic - I’ll have to see if it has similar systems - I don’t recall

[@samuelteare8160]

Thanks for breaking down this idea, Daniel. Great video!

[@BanditsKeep]

My pleasure!

[@DGB_Smyth]

Would love more on Crown & Skull!! Such a great game that needs more attention!!

[@BanditsKeep]

For sure

[@NegativeHeadspace]

"Maybe you don't need a map at all."

[@BanditsKeep]

Maybe 😊

[@timsanty3052]

Great discussion Daniel! I have done dungeons in all 3 styles. There are benefits to each, but complex dungeon maps are satisfying in their own, unique way! Thanks for doing these videos. You’re always so consistent!

[@BanditsKeep]

For sure, I do love a good classic map - both creating them and running a game with them

[@KyrndomWolf]

I like how Shadowdark does maps. I like these mapping systems: D100 Dungeon mapping and 4 Against Darkness. I like using a random but bell curve list with dice to detail Sounds and smells etc.

[@BanditsKeep]

Cool

[@Wombat2233]

I created a similar dungeon with mapless dungeon. I whanted to build a maze without tedious drawing. And then I got my inspiration by dungeon craft but I changed it a bit. I took a 6 and for each number I put a room and together I throw also an encounter . What happens they encounter the encounter on the way between the rooms after resolving they will come to the room and then I throw a d4 dice for defining which side they come out. And I did not draw the room I just took some notes what they can find. I did not tested it yet. Cause I stoped running cause it was to much work for me running a sandbox as a new gm and got near a burnout. Not just because of gming also private stuff. I stopped but getting distance. But I hope I will find energy to restart it again

[@suerainey9250]

Hey Daniel! I found your channel a couple of months ago and love the content. But I really want to thank you for turning me on to Franz Lieber and Fhfur (?) and the Gray Mouser. Excellent stories!

[@BanditsKeep]

Yes! I only discovered them in the last 10 years, such great stories of adventure

[@ZeKiwiOfTheNorth]

I don't have a dungeon crawling game at the moment, so i haven't had a chance to implement a mapless dungeon, but i thought it was such a great idea when i heard about it. Thanks for highlighting it here.

[@chiefmcclane]

One of the best, most fun gaming experiences I have had was running the scenario Bestow for Delta Green. It demands players keep a map, but it's a funky, non-Euclidean sort of map that ends up being a fun experience for the players (but not the player characters!)

[@BanditsKeep]

Nice, I haven’t heard of that, I’ll have to check it out

[@TheDevicer]

Daniel, I'm having trouble finding the resource or the video where you brought generating interesting encounters. It used an XYZ format of noun-verb-noun like pilgrims ambushing bandits or merchants fleeing from raiders. Thanks boss.

[@dustincoopermusic]

I loved this episode! Personally, I am not very found of big dungeons. Mostly, because how random and unpractical they are. I think the adventures for Dragon Age, and for Warhammer Fantasy RPG is what I usually like. That being said, I found myself running "Citadel of the Crimson Minotaur" (Shadowdark) for my Tweens D&D Library Club. My mind was blown when one of the kids jumped at the opportunity to map. It was awesome. The only problem was that it was 6-8 kids (including my oldest), and we only have an hour and a half (less if we have new kids show up and I have to teach before the session). So, in the end, mapping was a bit too much for that many people and that much time. I ended up just drawing a vague map on my white board, then if and when combat happened, we would quickly draw the room they were in on the dry erase board and go from there.

[@freddaniel5099]

Yes. Please tell more about Crown & Skull. There are some great games that are not getting enough exposure. Cheers!

[@BanditsKeep]

This is true

[@Wraithward]

As a visually impaired person who hates dealing with traditional mapping, especially as a GM, this style of mapless dungeonin sounds like it could resolve all my problems about not wanting to provide a map for my players but also feeling guilty when they don't have anything to focus on.

[@BanditsKeep]

It definitely could work, if you use this, let me know

[@MoeMoeKyun206]

I kind of like the idea of making this a decision for the players; At the beginning of the dungeon, ask the players if they want to map the dungeon, and how intensively, and cater descriptions to that. Then, decide a multiplier (a crude map takes one extra turn per room, a more detailed map takes two, perhaps) and use that as a resource pressure/random encounter multiplier, but the characters get the benefits of a drawn-out map, including maybe being able to sell it as an artifact in the world at the end. This gives the players agency in the game, and makes the experience of mapping part of the game world as well as the real world. Idk, just some thoughts. I always thought it was weird for a character to be able to accurately determine the number of feet a 70’ square room was in a single round of exploration when his torch doesn’t even light up half the room lol

[@BanditsKeep]

That sounds fun. In OD&D and the like a turn is 10 minutes so mapping a room doesn’t seem so hard. I’d probably let them move faster if they were not mapping though as per your idea.

[@suburbohemian]

My first gaming group did everything theater of the mind. Only the GM had maps. No minis, nothing...just our character information written on a piece of notebook paper and our dice was all we used.

[@BanditsKeep]

Nice

[@SwayRod836]

I've only ever run Rime of the Frostmaiden and I used a combination of premade maps and mind's eye mapping. I drew crude maps for a lot of the dungeons but when it came to the city of Ythrin I turned it into a hex crawl and told them that it was 15 minute travel between each hex. Each location I did mind's eye because they weren't overly elaborate maybe a 3 level tower here or a large single room there, but there are a lot of locations to explore. As DM I was keeping track of travel time even more in that last portion of the game because the longer the party is there, the higher the danger let's say...

[@user-tc5qc4ql8m]

"samwise isn't carrying graph paper" but you know he probably wishes he were!

[@BanditsKeep]

True, so true 😂

[@projab]

i ran a game with layers of unreality, which uses a very similar dungeon generation style. i think it's called a depthcrawl and (according to the alexandrian) the concept was created by emmy allen for the gardens of ynn and the stygian library!

[@BanditsKeep]

Cool - though goblin’s henchman might disagree with that

[@projab]

@@BanditsKeep googled around a bit and it seems that the alexandrian might yet again prove to be not the best at crediting stuff lol

[@pickpocketpressrpgvideos6655]

Yep I use the pointcrawl sketch approach myself when playing, esp if generating a dungeon solo.

[@BanditsKeep]

Yeah, that seems to work really well especially on the fly.

[@hazelmayn2465]

definitely need more crown and skull content on yt! (cool vid aswell)

[@BanditsKeep]

Indeed

[@ValdVincent]

I will say maps can be more useful then you might think, in that you can use them to visualize an adventure. I have started to recommend people to plot out their adventures as if they were a dungeon. Each scene/event being a room that connects to other rooms. Each having an entrance and exit, or more then one.

[@BanditsKeep]

Cool

[@ronniabati]

The One Ring Moria expansion has great rules for “mapless dungeons”

[@BanditsKeep]

Cool, l’ll have to take a look at that - I have the main game

[@theseus8820]

Another great game to look at for mapless (or abstracted map) dungeons is Worlds Without Number, or any of the other recent "Without Number" games from Sine Nomine.

[@BanditsKeep]

Good product line for sure

[@WandersNowherre]

The way you opened with "i wouldn't say there are better or worse ways" is a point I really wish more ttrpg culture would embrace. What's "the right way" to play these games? The answer is always: "the one your table is enjoying."

[@BanditsKeep]

Agreed

[@miksmeistergeneral]

Nice to hear you talk about C&S. I haven't picked it up because I don't think I'd get it to the table with my group. But I'm a fan of Index Card RPG, so it doesn't surprise me that Runehammer's put out another book with some good ideas and interesting mechanics.

[@BanditsKeep]

For sure. This one is much different and that is one thing that draws me to it

[@Grimlore82]

Edit: Runehammer made Crown & Skull, as well as ICRPG (Index Card RPG). Runehammer has a fantastic video about just this.

[@BanditsKeep]

Indeed they did!

[@cohort29]

Love, “Crown & Skull.”

[@BanditsKeep]

❤️

[@goyasolidar]

What you describe is exactly how I've been mapping for decades (what I call the flowchart method). Great minds!

[@BanditsKeep]

Nice!

[@RealmBuilderGuy]

I found C&S has a lot of great mechanics and concepts, but failed to “stick the landing” with me since he left a few odd open spaces in the rules that left me confused too often.

[@BanditsKeep]

Hmm, like what if I may ask.

[@RealmBuilderGuy]

@@BanditsKeep There were some references to monster effects and then I couldn't find the effect anywhere. I like the mapless dungeon concept, but would've liked to have seen more examples and/or guidelines. I also wish there was an index for easier navigation of the book. I see it as a great toolkit or prompt book, but am still struggling with seeing it as the complete game. I plan on reading it again and might feel different then. As well as running it (possibly solo to test).

[@johnqglass]

Im GM'ing a crown and skull game right now with some co-workers (4 players) and it has been going good. Everyone seems to be enjoying the system after some initial bumps that come from picking up any new system. I think you should do deeper dive.

[@BanditsKeep]

Cool!

[@TheSoling27]

for 35+ years I did descriptive mapping as a DM -- but found a free nearly dos based vtt for the last 3-4yrs-- and did that -- and then didn't have my laptop and tried to go back ... WHOA --rusty -- definately use it or lose it

[@BanditsKeep]

So true

[@KyleMaxwell]

I have the same shirt and it’s one of my favorites!

[@BanditsKeep]

Nice!

[@Khaldryn]

Would love you to go over Crown & Skull and maybe some others, please.

[@BanditsKeep]

I’ll see how I can talk about it without being a flip through

[@Smittumi]

Love Runehammer, would love to hear more about your views on Crown and Skull.

[@BanditsKeep]

Cool, I shall dig into it

[@Rynewulf]

Honestly I just love maps too much, I would be sad playing in a completely mapless game and I find I struggle to keep track of a abstract space (but I'd be totally down for playing something where that was the point) Likewise I enjoy the mini game of finding details on the map to find secrets, and putting such details into my own map. I also love how tactile it is playing in a room of people, us drawing on grid paper and putting random objects down in place as figures. So much more evocative and fun than a digital map. Now I just need to find the time to get a campaign together for the first time in a while, and actually try out the 'party has a designated mapper' style play

[@BanditsKeep]

I can understand that

[@dantherpghero2885]

I Love ALL Tasting History err. . . Bandit's Keep videos!

[@BanditsKeep]

😊

[@yourseatatthetable]

I've used maps of every sort and size, store bought and hand made and in all honesty, the best maps are usually the crude, amateurish ones the player's make for themselves.

[@aarondavidson4093]

I’m running Basic Fantasy in the TaleSpire VTT - great fun until I haven’t done 3hrs of session specific prep and suddenly it’s theatre of the mind!

[@BanditsKeep]

Nice!

[@sleepinggiant4062]

I sketch out a small, rough representation of the map on a sheet of paper to give the players a rough idea of where they have been and where they can go. There is no back and forth trying to get the map right with another person drawing what you are describing.

[@BanditsKeep]

Cool

[@fooferbob9230]

If you have to argue with a lotr lubber: I'm sure one of the dwarves was a scribe. He surely did have graph paper.

[@BanditsKeep]

Perhaps 📝

[@Sindhrohan]

Please talk about Crown and Skull and the mechanics you like. Would love to hear what clicks for you.

[@BanditsKeep]

I’ll see what I can throw together

[@circuithijacker]

Ssssllooooww mapping was one reason it's called Dungeon Crawl

[@BanditsKeep]

Indeed!

[@TheArcturusProject]

Great mechanic for random maps!

[@BanditsKeep]

I think so, still want to dig into the Crown and Skull mechanics

[@TheLyricalCleric]

I would think only 4 rooms and one being the exit might get stifling. I would imagine a d6 with the 5 rooms of the five room dungeon would be preferable, and the 6 being the exit to the next level. Just a thought-maybe even larger dice for a megadungeon!

[@BanditsKeep]

Each 4 “rooms” is a section - the dungeon itself would have more than a dozen rooms

[@kevadii]

Sandwiches of History mentioned!!

[@BanditsKeep]

🥪

[@sword1sorcerer]

Sandwiches of History is goated

[@BanditsKeep]

🥪

[@noxiousbones]

More Crown and Skull!

[@BanditsKeep]

👍🏻

[@mikeh1142]

Interesting... a little late to the party here. I'll probably need to watch this a few times to process. This is particularly relevant to me since I run a Meetup based open table Shadowdark campaign at a local brewery and I have been looking for alternatives to running dungeon locations 'by the map'. In a more causal open table environment, the specific form of the dungeon gets lost. I've been thinking of ways to present the dungeon environment in a more abstract way without losing the inherent 'decision tree' nature of the dungeon. I own Crown & Skull and I found its mapless dungeon to be interesting but it lacks some of the major features of a dungeon. Specifically, it completely lacks choice. It may not appear overly meaningful to go left or right in a dungeon at first, but as you explore, choices gain more and more meaning. Also it may be required to revisit an old dungeon. My current idea is a node based approach where I describe the room and where it leads, without concern for the actual map. Describe exits and let players choose, but not sweat the actual physical dimensions (unless it becomes relevant). I can have them mark each exit with its destination room so they can track their location and return to it later. This misses out on some of the 'positional deduction' puzzles dungeons may present but it may be easier overall to present to a group in a loud and causal game environment.

[@FoxxTrick]

I used to spend hours making or finding maps for my players, then changing the adventure based on what I found or could make. Now find something close enough and get on with it. A great map can help or give too much info and dispel belief.

[@lukerabon7925]

Point-crawl dungeon! I never thought of or encountered it before, but thats the perfect way to introduce mapping to my mapping averse players

[@BanditsKeep]

For sure

[@titlowrockstar]

Talk more about Crown & Skull!!!

[@BanditsKeep]

👑

[@chrisderhodes7629]

I suggest playing a few sessions of Crown and Skull before doing a video on it, the rules give it a very different feel than most other games. This is a good thing sometimes, but some players find the system frustrating. It also leaves a lot for the GM to fix.

[@Xplora213]

Hankerin is a funny one, he has wisely noted what actually makes the game interesting- encounters, set pieces, STUFF - but I think the streamlining has some minor flaws in that there is very little contrast between action sequences when discussed like this. It’s heavy metal the whole time without much synth or clean guitar ballad to bridge between the loud screaming parts. I love the big power chords but you need quiet sections to have a breath. 1d4 with no walking has weaknesses… but I don’t want to badmouth it. I’m just trying to understand it better.

[@BanditsKeep]

The idea, as I understand it, is that you add the in between with improv. I agree just going from one room to the next would be a bit much for me and my group, you need the tension of exploring the tunnels etc

[@Xplora213]

@@BanditsKeep I guess that is the fundamental difference. My suspicion is that Hank is HEAVILY into RP, while being a bit psycho on the importance of the dice. Whereas a portion of the players are more mechanistic. The old HeroQuest board game types. I’m not against either, but I would need to see the RP elements of the scene transitions in full flight to make the call. I almost did this is during my Underdark portion as pointcrawl was almost too much. Maybe some videos of Hank with his group would be instructive because I am missing something here.

[@BunnyNiyori]

Sometimes my 'map' is just a series of location names with a line connecting the next location.

[@BanditsKeep]

Same

[@al2642]

I'm going thruhht that phase as well: napoleon and Alexander campaigns ahahha

[@BanditsKeep]

Indeed

[@ModdedGarage]

Great vid!

[@BanditsKeep]

Thank You!

[@Dyundu]

Shield wall’s getting pretty big these days 👍

[@BanditsKeep]

Indeed

[@dane3038]

I haven't been a game that needed mapping for a long time ( I miss it ). My technique: I use simple lines and tiny boxes ( a single square on the graph paper ). Little one square long or about a 1/4" ) lines indicate passages not taken. This is usually enough to to tell us where we've been, where we haven't been and how to get back out. This technique is not very helpful to find a secret passage or room. Intelligence checks or Mapping Skill can be used if the players make a mistake. Maps that the Characters have made, can be sold. *the map the players make and the map the characters make are not always the same.

[@orkcol]

ah so you dabble in ye olde Runehammer... well met sir

[@BanditsKeep]

How could I not?

[@blotcho84]

My group does a lot of pointcrawls lately, it seems to work great!

[@BanditsKeep]

Awesome

[@Joshuazx]

I flipped through Crown and Skull. There doesn't seem to be anything in there I want to use.

[@BanditsKeep]

I’m surprised I see a bunch of stuff worth using it being inspired by, but everyone is different

[@Joshuazx]

@@BanditsKeep I like the idea of making players choose what is essentially Law or Chaos, nothing in between and no different variations of the two.

[@tweety6545]

In my dcc solo games I list areas but don't map.

[@BanditsKeep]

Nice

[@seanhembree6154]

MOAR CROWN & SKULL

[@BanditsKeep]

👑 💀

[@seanhembree6154]

@@BanditsKeep I'm team skull

[@BanjoSick]

Moria has been adapted three times to ttrpgs by now (MERP, LotR rpg and The One Ring). Not once did anyone think mapping the whole thing was the solution… . All of the adaptations have merit and I would put them under recommended reading for GMs.

[@BanditsKeep]

Cool

[@parrishmatrix]

This comes from I think solo play. So aren't making your own dungeon to go through. It would not have occurred to me to rollfor rooms when I have a whole party. But does sound like it could be fun for all. Even the DM would not know whatis next! The problem I have ran into myself is getting dungeons that don't make sense. Would the treasury be first? Or the bunkhouse? I end up rerolling a lot.

[@BanditsKeep]

It’s not that it’s a room is “first” it’s the first one you enter / find

[@derekbroestler7687]

OK, but in all fairness... Sandwiches of history is AWESOME!!!!

[@BanditsKeep]

Yes!!!