Marie Kondo and Buddhism

Marie Kondo's "KonMari method" to reduce clutter has some resonances with, and some differences from, the teachings of early Buddhism. We'll discuss her method and then look at a passage from an early sutta and what it might tell us about how to go even deeper to reduce mental clutter from our lives.
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Sutta mentioned:
With the Householder Tapussa suttacentral.n...
Links about Marie Kondo:
konmari.com/
Marie Kondo, The Life-Changing Magic of Tidying Up amzn.to/2D4inyj
aeon.co/ideas/...
What Does a Minimalist Think of Marie Kondo’s Netflix Show? • What Does a Minimalist...
Marie Kondo: "The Life Changing Magic of Tidying Up" • Marie Kondo | The Life...
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#buddhism #mariekondo #konmari
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[@DougsDharma]

Check out my new free-mini course and other courses on early Buddhism, at onlinedharma.org/

[@rebeccafraker8753]

Great video, thanks for sharing! Shinto and spiritual beliefs aside, there are still benefits to 'thanking' objects before discarding. Coming from an atheist, I found it helpful mainly because I had a whole lot of overwhelming guilt associated with keeping/discarding specific objects, such as gifts from friends and family. Taking the time and showing a silent appreciation for each object helped me take the next step to actually donating with a clearer mind.

[@DougsDharma]

Yes, thanks Rebecca. I can see how Marie Kondo's approach could be psychologically helpful to many people. If it's a useful approach for you then great!

[@guavaprince3247]

I love how all of your videos radiate a certain positivity and serenity. That's rare to find on this platform

[@DougsDharma]

Well the world can get us down sometimes, but I think it's best to remain as positive and serene as we can. Thanks for the kind comment Abigail. 🙏

[@CharlotEYUT]

Guava Prince very true, Doug doesn’t put anyone down neither try to push his teachings as the only truth. And his serenity is contagious!!

[@sidstovell2177]

What a timely talk. I minimalized radically in 2016, but somehow stuff keeps appearing. 2020, getting down to only what is needed and what is precious. For instance, framed photos of those members of the family I won't see again. The earthen pot from a birding trip to a tropical forest is about to land in a friend's outdoor kitchen. The macaws are flying in my memory. Thank you, Doug!! Great start to my day after meditating.

[@DougsDharma]

Great Sid, yes I think the recent turn towards minimalism and reducing clutter is very sensible, much though I too find it sometimes difficult to carry out in practice! 😄

[@MrCanigou]

Having started my "carreer" as a farm worker who relocated numerous times, I had to be sort of a minimalist (sparing then allowed me to buy a first 20 m2 flat). The few things I own are chosen for their good conception and are maintained with care for their usefulness (which in a sense give beauty to my 10yr old bike, my 12yr pressure cooker, my 18 yr zafu etc...). Seeing their good maintenance might indeed give me joy. The smile I have on my avatar was taken by my father when I sat next to my new Sun Oven - 550 cookings since 2012. Am I attached to these belongings ? May be. I still remember the loss of a 12yr old thermos container last year. I can't so far find a middle way between my very attentive care to the things I own and the other extreme that would reside in a sort of a "neglecting detachment" ? From Marie Kondo, I retained her ordered way to fold the clothes. Thank you Doug for your precise disquisitions about Buddhist subjects.

[@DougsDharma]

Ha! Excellent observations Patrick, you're very welcome. 🙂

[@CharlotEYUT]

Fantastic, therefore understanding the drawback in each situation is the key to find joy without ownership or attachment! Thanks so much, I love your videos!!

[@DougsDharma]

That's right CharlotEYUT, understanding the drawbacks is so important to practice!

[@hillarymary]

I wish there were more videos about Marie Kondo and the spirituality of her method

[@DougsDharma]

Yes hillarymary, it's an interesting topic!

[@stopsomewhere9104]

I really like your point on attachment to things that you see as animated and I think it really highlights the extent to which Marie Kondo is influenced specifically by Shinto belief as her primary world view that she frames her work in. Though in Shinto, Kami refers both to Individual spirits and the larger interconnected spirit between all things and I think this shares a lot in common with interdependence. It’s not just nice aesthetic things she focuses on keeping but potent things. Like the T-shirt she keeps at the end of her book

[@DougsDharma]

Yes that's right Erik, it's objects with meaning that fit into particular spots in your house that she likes us to keep. Thanks.

[@ZenTeaNow]

I think that Marie Kondo really understood the human psychology of loss aversion. Instead of the common decluttering process of removing one item at a time from your wardrobe, her method make us move all the clothes out of the wardrobe first and then decide what to add back to the empty wardrobe. So we are adding instead of subtracting in the decluttering process! This is so clever don't you think? (The psychology of loss aversion is well known in the world of finance-people find it hard to cut losses.) Drawing some lessons from Buddhism, I would say that possessions are an extension of ourselves and our self-identity. We always want to grow bigger and accumulation of possessions is a way of doing that. But Marie Kondo is kind of using reverse psychology for decluttering. I thought that that was rather smart of her. It is one of the key columns of her method. The other key column of her method is using gratitude to soothe ourselves over impending loss (of possessions we are giving up). It's the psychology of self-soothing. So I thought her method was very smart understanding of human psychology. I didn't even think anything about the "spiritual" ,"Shinto" aspects - just thought these were added in or given attention on Netflix because they can be dramatised to add a sacred/ new age dimension to something as mundane as decluttering 😅 I really didn't think of reading so much into it!😊

[@DougsDharma]

Yes I think her process is psychologically astute, no wonder it's been successful with so many.

[@kentfoltz9129]

Doug, you often mention Early Buddhism. i believe you have videos on the three shcools of Buddhism but what about a video that addresses the differnces between Early Buddhism later Buddhism. Or, are the differences mainly attributable the three schools?

[@DougsDharma]

Well none of the three schools are early Buddhism, they are all later developments out of the early material. I've done a number of videos about developments in Buddhism that illustrate such differences, such as with concepts like non-duality, emptiness, compassion, the bodhisattva ideal, and so on. There are too many! 😄

[@xiaomaozen]

Great analysis and criticism! Kondo's "animism" (and the overevaluation of things as a consequence) is my main problem with her approach, too. Not everything is bad, but this point really scares me off... 🐱🙏

[@DougsDharma]

Yes, I understand it can be useful for some people ... 😊

[@Magnulus76]

Marie Kondo's worldview is rooted in Shinto and the Japanese New Age movement (which are often indistinguishable). So seeing stuff as "persons" isn't a metaphor for her, per se. Even if this sounds fanciful, it's actually not completely foreign to Buddhism- it is a certain way of relating to interdependence. You can see something of this reflected in the writings and sermons of Thitch Nhat Hanh, for instance, and it can be a powerful way to relate to the world. I do think permanent declutter is possible, but in involves a complete transformation of how we view stuff in our lives, whether we are oriented towards seeking joy or just acquiring things out of a sense of lack. Consumerism is a common notion around the world now, so decluttering is going to involve consciously distancing ourselves from it's influence, through more conscious attitudes towards our environment and its spiritual value.

[@DougsDharma]

Right, there are lots of resonances, which is why Kondo's approach is so interesting from a Buddhist perspective.

[@HomemakerDaze]

Agreed!

[@mertefe4345]

Doug hi. Can I reach you privately from some social media or something, do you do that kind of thing? Wanting to ask some questions about Meditation and Dharma.

[@DougsDharma]

Hi Mert, I try to do most of my teaching in public like this so others can benefit, it's hard to find time for private teaching. 🙏

[@Mevlinous]

My work clothes don’t spark joy, but, I kind of need them.

[@DougsDharma]

😄 Sure! I think Marie Kondo leaves room for things we need, as well.

[@russell2165]

I love your videos. But I am not sure what to make of this one. Is questioning someone else's philosophy necessary?

[@DougsDharma]

Hi Russell and thanks. Personally I think that questioning ideas and claims is always necessary if we are to take them seriously. This was the Buddha's technique as well. But sometimes I get things wrong, so if you think I did in this circumstance let me know! 🙂

[@russell2165]

@@DougsDharma Hi Doug, thank you for your response. Yes, I do think we should question ideas. And I do that way too much at times. From Religion, to politics, to parenting, to ethics, to animal cruelty.... and it brings out the worst in me. I guess my question was specific to the nature of your channel. The purity of the teachings, and the kindness you inspire. It's the first discourse I have heard that enlightens without attempting to prove someone else wrong in even the littlest way. I'm sorry if I sound silly or picky. I am just at an ugly junction in my life, and the teachings of Buddha have been such a lovely, thorn-free path to walk along.

[@DougsDharma]

Thanks for that Russell. I have done some videos that question particular beliefs, and mentioned the Buddha's at times quite strong denunciations of others for wrong beliefs. That said, I think we should pursue a path of kindness when doing so (at least as best we can), and always attempt to lessen our clinging to our own beliefs and claims. In the case of this video however I do find Marie Kondo's approach interesting and potentially beneficial. That said, if you find that you are spending too much mental and emotional effort in critiquing views, then you may want to try to make a part of your practice one of relaxing around views and opinions. Try to see what's good in the other side, even if in the final analysis it should be rejected. Try to see why someone might adopt such a view. The Buddha's teachings are quite extensive and not all of them are right for us all the time. So if you don't find this particular aspect of the teachings (or of my videos) useful, leave it aside and pursue something else for a time while you practice with it. 🙂

[@russell2165]

@@DougsDharma Thank you Doug. I find your videos very beneficial, and your manner very calming.

[@binoybhusanari1703]

Mr.Doug why you have written DHARMA instead of DHAMMA.?

[@DougsDharma]

Because it's a word now in the English language, and I don't want to confuse people with Pāli words they may not be familiar with.

[@zinakan]

Have you heard of the new " alt-Buddhism" that is becoming popular with alt right and far right crowds?

[@DougsDharma]

Yes I've heard of them.

[@zinakan]

@@DougsDharma Have you read any of their positions on Nazism? Will you do a video on them?

[@brandon637]

HUH? WHat is that?

[@zinakan]

@@brandon637 Western Buddhist with nazi sympathies.

[@mael-strom9662]

@@zinakan How does "loving kindness" and the precept of "No killing sentient beings" fit in with Nazi sympathies?

[@davida6146]

I'm a Christian and I appreciate you revealing this... It's obvious that she is using Buddhism in her methods, and I find it kind of deceitful how she tries to incorporate it into your home without telling you... It's actually kind of rude... If I did the same thing as her, but asked the guests to thank Jesus for every object we own, I'm pretty sure people would have a problem with it. Some argue that Jesus was a minimalist too, so a Christian based minimalism would also make sense.

[@DougsDharma]

Thanks for the comment David. Actually my point was rather that she was not using Buddhism so much as Shintoism in her approach. It may be a useful approach for all that, and does have its benefits. Generally speaking, minimalism and ‘de-clutter’ is a wise way to live.

[@mael-strom9662]

At the quantum mechanical level all phenomena are the same ...no difference between animate and inanimate ...thinking about them makes erroneous distinctions.

[@DougsDharma]

At the level of physical phenomena yes, that's exactly right. But at the level of mental phenomena and ethics, not so much. 😉

[@mael-strom9662]

@@DougsDharma Very interesting. Quantum mechanics hints that particles are empty of existence and reside in a probability cloud. The question is, does awakening and ethics arise from the cloud or is it a unique human construct. Animals, insects and plants don't appear to have these features ...or, perhaps they already are fully awakened and I'm just not smart enough to tell the difference. ...lol.

[@infozencentre]

Thank you for inspiring a counter video to some of the things you have said here. How does a Buddhist scholar not get the principle of Buddha mind in everything that lays at the heart of Zen and Mahayana Buddhism? I'm sorry the American can't understand this. Things are not seperate and empty, this is fundamental to the doctrine of No-thing. I think you have got a lot of things wrong in this video, perhaps because you sit so deeply in Theravada/Hinnayana Buddhism. By the way, her name is pronounced Mari-eh, not Marie, not Mariah, not Mary etc...

[@DougsDharma]

Thanks for your comments, Immovable. The focus of my approach is mostly along early Buddhist lines, and the notion of Tathāgatagarbha is a later ideal. That's not to say there's anything necessarily wrong with it, it's just not the approach I tend to follow. Among scholars nowadays "hinayana" is understood as a derogatory term, so we should try to avoid it. On that topic, I did an earlier video on superiority conceit in Buddhism with reference to a wonderful book out recently: kzbin.info/www/bejne/mJ-wmqNmocx_sMk 🙏🙂

[@infozencentre]

@@DougsDharma lol thank you