Marillion- Forgotten Sons (REACTION & REVIEW)

Song Link: • Marillion - Forgotten ...
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[@charleswhite1201]

The song is about the Northern Ireland conflict which was at its worst in the 70's and 80's. Best marillion album. And yeah, Rothery (and Fish) are on fire in the last few minutes of that song.

[@glennthompson1173]

Sorry but childhood ends and clutching is way better than this album. And I think rothery is surpass fish now. They put out a lot of good music.

[@AndyMmusic]

Specifically about young, unemployed British men who join the army as the only work and get sent to Northern Ireland.

[@richey4287]

One of Fish's best vocal and lyrical performances. And that guitar....

[@MattLathrum]

I suggest continuing the Marillion journey chronologically, and you'll see how they grow as musicians. Thanks for listening to Marillion! BTW they're currently touring in Europe 😁

[@jareczek1980]

That is only way. The good way

[@vladtheinhaler6647]

The live version of this on Real to Reel is fantastic 👌

[@gzaq]

yeah agreed 100%... both Fish-era live albums are way more powerful than the studio versions

[@PIGFRAN]

I agree

[@bigmanpigman3436]

Puts the studio version to shame. It's almost a different song.

[@WokeBegone]

That whole album is fantastic, if you wanted to introduce anyone to Marillion, you could do a hell of a lot worse than give them that album to hear.

[@davidtaylor4366]

That's where I first heard it. Amazing

[@broadsword6650]

The anger and bile in Fish's vocals reflect the attitude of many in the UK who lived through "The Troubles" which saw random death dished out on high streets and shopping malls against civilians and passers-by. I guess you had to be there... Just be glad you didn't have to be there!

[@gaiaeternal5131]

Yeah, it was a scary time. I had work colleagues injured in a bomb that went off in Victoria Rail Station in London, and I was down the road but uninjured when a car bomb killed one of our politicians, Airey Neave. But it pales in comparison with what life must have been like in Belfast and Derry.

[@jareczek1980]

In his voice hear punk. Prog punk. It's true. But you know, you could always live in Poland at that time. Don't complain

[@carterlink]

As an early Marillion fan, I do get entirely what you’re saying. Fish did rather over-egg it on those first 2 albums. The good moments definitely outweigh the bad, but it was only really on Misplaced Childhood and Clutching At Straws that he seemed to tone down the theatricalities. For that reason, I think your next port of call for a Marillion album should be either of those, to get a sense of the progression. Personally I’d plump for Clutching. Not only stronger material, but much easier to separate the tracks for reactions.

[@lemming9984]

Memories of Fish 'bayonetting' the audience with his mic stand at Moles Club in Bath during this song. Round about the time this album was released.

[@shyshift]

Justin in the very beginning while someone is turning the radio dial we hear the chorus of Market Square Heroes by Marillion. It’s the first song they released as a single but like The Beatles left it off the debut album. It’s a great song and deserves to be played before you move on. The b side is Three Boats Down From The Candy which is also great.

[@MrSinnerBOFH]

After I listened to Forgotten Sons, with my mouth open, I knew Marillion were something special, different and wonderful. It's been a love story since then. Yes, I like both eras: with Fish and with Hogarth ("h"). Regarding what to do next, a logical move is to go for their next album: Fugazi. Or, maybe, the first album with "h": Seasons End.

[@daicullinane7746]

I have always liked this track, all the parts especially the prayer section.

[@user-so4jr8lz8b]

I still get goose bumps listening to this. I'm transported back to the front of a hot and sweaty Marquee club in London in '82, the dry ice billowing out .... the deathly silence... and then the heat from the white spotlights as Steve launches into his emotional solo. Pure magic.

[@davidholloway1817]

FYI, the lyrics specifically refer to British soldiers serving in Northern Ireland at the height of "The Troubles."

[@leddygee1896]

Marillion brought back that 70s Genesis feel into the 80s that Genesis had abandoned all those years before. I bought their albums in the day, when they came out, as far as the Fish era is concerned...

[@sbsummit]

So glad you did this album, and (on the whole) enjoyed it. Personally, I love this track because of its abrupt changes of style, and I think Fish's over-dramatic delivery works well here, considering the subject matter. As for where to go next, I definitely think you should work through their studio albums in order - Fugazi next, Mispaced Childhood, Clutching At Straws, etc. We've all enjoyed listening through the Genesis albums with you, so let's keep it going with Marillion!

[@cedricmilford5254]

This album was VERY influential in my musical direction. One may be forgiven if Fish is not to their taste (pun intended) but I acquired a liking to the voice and also the vocabulary. Thanks for airing this album, Justin! 👍🏻👍🏻

[@VPOFIT]

I am a Marillion fan since ‘85. I love the Fish albums. This song encapsulates the anger due to the Troubles. As an Irish American with family in the North this was a powerful song for me. So glad that time is past. 👍😎

[@joemurphy7345]

I think Fugasi is definitely the way to go with marilion after script as it is quite a progression enjoyed your opinion

[@whiskytalkauspetersschrank]

Forgotten Sons is a little bit like an early version of those suits later on missplaced childhood, but less melancholic and more angry - not a song for fans of radio singles, but I think it works pretty good . Were to go on with marillion - well there is no compleatly bad record by them ( I know, some would disagree here 😂😂) Would be happy to hear more of them on this chanal. Think they are still one of the most underrated bands out there... too many people don´t even listen, they just want to put them in a box, but the thing is, they dont fit in any

[@sphericalharmony1603]

First listen to this song for me and I felt it to be one of the standout tracks on the album.

[@papalaz4444244]

Fish's vocals are heavily influenced by Peter Hammill.

[@a.k.1740]

Justin, I don't know if you noticed, but the last section of "Forgotten Sons" is very reminiscent of the ending of "Heathaze" by Genesis on Duke. The 10-minute live version on their live Real to Reel album is even better ! If you're doing another Marillion album then look no further than Fugazi (their best in my opinion, although not everyone shares that view😉).

[@daicullinane7746]

Fugazi is my favourite of the Fish era.

[@digibirder]

I think chronological is the best way, so Fugazi would be next. I think you'll enjoy the journey. Your thoughts are always well-reasoned, and I enjoy hearing them even when I don't fully agree. People, and the bands they are in, evolve . That is one of the things that makes Marillion special. "An Hour Before It's Dark" is nothing like "Script". But it's still Marillion. Like a human relationship over time, some things go well, and other times... They've been with me for the majority of my life, and that story arc over-all has been positive one for me. I'm not the same person I was 40 years ago, and neither are they. Keep going JP!

[@michaellomax2]

Can't wait for you to get to Clutching at Straws album, my favourite. By the way, liking the Steve Hackett shirt, Justin :-)

[@peteharper2687]

Grendel by marillion off their first extended single is amazing, and the reason along with Market Square Heroes that I really like them.

[@simonjones7862]

I walked the streets of Belfast in the 80s and 90s this song hits hard everytime I listen to it

[@richardkarbowski5224]

Might I suggest Market Square Heroes and Grendel? Then just progress chronologically...Fugazi, Misplaced Childhood, Clutching At Straws

[@lilaelsi5766]

Definitely, Fugazi is a perfect continuation to A Script ❤

[@JustJP]

Ty Rich, I've done Grendel actually :)

[@lilaelsi5766]

Definitely FUGAZI is the perfect continuation of A Script 👌🏼

[@moraysimpson2710]

About the young British army soldiers who died in Northern Ireland during the Troubles. All sons, not forgotten by their families, but forgotten by the Government that sent them their. The urgency of Fish's vocals recreates the terror of policing a civilian population, not knowing who was friend or foe. The drums give a military feel to the song.

[@andrew7777]

Fish is seriously one of the greatest contemporary poets. "From the dole queue to the regiment a profession in a flash But remember Monday signings when from door to door you dash On the news a nation mourns you unknown soldier, count the cost For a second you'll be famous but labeled posthumous" Not a throw away line anywhere in Fish's lyrics. Unlike the rubbish produced today.

[@Lemmys_Mole]

I'll have extra sauce please....love Fish's vocals on this & all the bits you didn't care for 😆😆

[@kenl2091]

Yeah, this is Marillion (and Fish in particular) at their most theatrical but it works for me, this song being a highlight when done live back in the day.

[@sunkenindeaf]

3:50 --- Almost identical with the continuous bass+drum line of The Smiths' _"Barbarism Begins at Home"._ Which is nice.

[@kevingunning7569]

Most of my childhood involved constant news reports of various 'murders' and shootings across the Irish Sea in Belfast. Religion has an awful lot to answer for. Thanks JP. My suggestion is to react to Marillion's most recent album 'An Hour Before it's Dark' released this year.

[@bigjapi1]

One day Justin said... "the ending... the ending of the song... "All In A Mouse's Night", was fantastic, and I find some similarity in this ending. Hey JP... Misplaced next PLEASE.

[@jimdunagan4180]

I love this song. I love this LP.

[@martynwillcock5880]

This song is about the conflict in Northern Island and was written before the peace treaty

[@jonsmith9518]

You have to progress chronologically. Fugazi is a good album. Save Misplaced Childhood for a long song Saturday/Sunday.

[@keithrichman6918]

Great song and reaction! Love Pete Trewavas in this!

[@PIGFRAN]

I think the music is 100% great, the prayer part is important for the rest of song...

[@gaiaeternal5131]

Hello Justin. Dave from London, In The Evening. Decent song, but I agree with you about Fish's over-dramatic singing in the first half. Strong sentiments about soldiers dying in The Troubles in Northern Ireland. For a song about mothers (and wives) losing soldiers in war, and sung by one of the great pop singers, try Mother's Pride by George Michael. It was popular during the time of the Gulf War, on both sides of the Atlantic. P.S. my song ref In The Evening is by Led Zeppelin.

[@ScottatHouseonaHill]

Live, this was insane back in the day.

[@mariobaert8346]

At the time I was so happy there was some more prog-related music being released. Still a fan now! 2 days ago I saw them live in Eindhoven playing all of their latest album (An Hour Before It's Dark) and it was a treat, again. They actually finished the show with "Garden Party" from Script! And what a fun way to end it was. This album still gets played here but there's so much more interesting material to be found in the later years. Their music and lyrics have matured so much over the years. Still love the Rothery solo's and sometimes I miss the intricate keyboardsolo's Kelly played in the early days (more soundscapes and atmospheres now). The bass is always interesting, sometimes even Squire-like and the Mosely-drumming fits perfectly with the songs.

[@clarkem4119]

Ah, back in the Mick "Three Fills" Pointer days. I used to listen to this album so much.

[@AlexAlex-dr9zc]

Love and compassion

[@HippoYnYGlaw]

I listened Justin. I listened! And just now I checked out Nothin 2 Lose - UK.

[@jamespaivapaiva4460]

History is passed, the future is to come. Peace fills "The Space", after war is done. "An Hour Before It's Dark", it's a "Neverland" for some. Raise the memorials, for "Forgotten Sons" "Clutching At Straws", at a 'Season's End" and a dying Sun. Peace & Love to everyone.

[@paulcassam3644]

Nice that you love the music. Ever served?

[@RubesGoodBrainCoffee]

Mick Pointer was to Marillion what John Mayhew was to Genesis.

[@a.k.1740]

Frankly, I think John Mayhew was way better than Mick Pointer !!! (just listen to Trespass to be convinced).

[@a.k.1740]

@Best Critic! I really despise the majority of these neo-prog bands from the 80s and 90s, aside from IQ and Marillion's first two studio albums (plus their live Real to Reel) with Fish. I never liked Pallas, Pendragon, Shadowland and Arena which are bands that make souless music played in a robotic way, and without swing.

[@a.k.1740]

@Best Critic! Well, just like yours ! It's all very subjective.

[@Thomas.deNorth]

Just go on to Fugazi if you are going to do more Marillion.

[@jenphillips3212]

Please don't, easily their worst album.

[@a.k.1740]

@@jenphillips3212 Their best for me !

[@alnitak208]

​@@jenphillips3212 oh no ! Fugazi is excellent. There are gems in it!

[@blacktan6341]

good job

[@jenphillips3212]

This song was one of my favourite songs on Script....and there's the drumming. Parts of this song has not aged well, the lyrics and singing are cringey in places. Still a classic

[@zimbo65a]

I agree with your "over" feelings, that´s the reason why I love the live versions in the fish era more than the studio versions wich are generally a little bit "overproduced". Fish is a great singer and Steve Rothery is a great guitarist, but their work often was ruined by the man on the mixer. Ok- not "ruined" but too much synthesized. Fish is an extrem emotional singer,it doesn´t need more artificial effects. Same story with Steve.

[@blackcatcentralmusic]

In the '80s I listened to Marillion a lot but now I can't listen to those early albums for all the reasons cited. The band improved on "Misplaced Childhood" and "Clutching At Straws". The latter I think is the best Fish era album. For conveying emotion on these topics I think Dave Cousins and The Strawbs are far more effective. Songs like "Grave New World" and "The Hangman and the Papist".

[@frugalseverin2282]

Fish's singing always seemed overwrought to me, I prefer the post-Fish era of their music. He gets compared to Peter Gabriel but he was more nuanced, had more range emotionally.

[@robertbarnett9939]

I thought this album was fantastic when it first came out during a prog drought, but with the passage of time and subsequent albums you can tell it's an album of great ambition performed by a band of limited experience, which is how I see it now, which I think is fine really.

[@HippoYnYGlaw]

I listened JP! And earlier i listened to Forgotten Sons by Marillion. John Wetton’s Asian vocals have just won theBest Vocals in Today’s Videos category. I must be mellowing in my approach to UK. Yes it’s dated but at least there’s variety in their approach. Will i mellow toward GTR and Asia? Give it time, lots of time. No Rush, jp. Do Tony’s “The Fugitive” before you rush into any Asia, it may help me to process and digest the experience. In fact I’m a positive chap usually but as I suspected, these three bands and , cue fanfare, Suede, tend to test my patience. The common factor? : Distinctive Shouty Vocals. (Only last week i heard a highly regarded Genesis b side and noted how much shouting was goin on, and it went down a few notches in the ratings). Marillion ‘s Forgotten Sons is on now. Relax, Derek. I liked the bass line in the middle. If I hadn’t heard Genesis as a 11year old I’m sure Marillion would have done the trick 5 years later, but nothing in this song conveys Subtle. U summed it up perfectly. Too much HP ? Sauce! Diolch. Rush please. The difference will be obvious. No rush though. 1987’s Hold Your Fire ? I hated it! Re- listened 3 years ago and i thought ‘ooh maybe it was me’ Super reviews JP. Honest tactfully warm!

[@meteozkar5042]

Fish loves Genesis; Genesis fans love Marillion...

[@jareczek1980]

You have to remember that Genesis and yes could only dream of such a good first album

[@thijs941]

Great!! Great song in my opinion, really. BUT! Now, from first album to latest one? :)

[@musicdroog7666]

Since you've been closing off a few albums lately, how bout getting into something fresh like The The "Infected". I know I've asked before once or twice. I'm sure you will like. Cheers

[@cutthr0atjake]

Great call! Infected is a fantastic album. It even features Steve Hogarth, Fish's replacement in Marillion!

[@palantir135]

The live version is much better

[@capecyn]

Hey Justin! I have to agree with you here totally. I disliked the first part so much that I advanced it o later on in the song to see if it got any better! I felt as if my ears were being assaulted. It sounded too maniacal/diabolical for my tastes. The lyrics, however, were outstanding and I get where they were going with those vocals.

[@paulcollins5586]

Classic .

[@maruad7577]

If you liked the ending I wonder if you would like Kitaro.

[@ramoncardinali]

The drumming on these first Marillion releases are so stiff it hurts.

[@zephead64]

Regarding your feelings re the first half of the song... Agree to disagree, sir. 😊

[@bazaul]

Great song, if a little pedestrian on the drums.

[@yes_head]

This must be a newer mix -- it sounds a lot better than my old CD version. Unlike you, Justin, I prefer the first section over the last, which I feel plods on for too long. "Forgotten Sons" had been in Marillion's live repertoire for some time by 1983, and represents the band's earliest style so the visual element and Fish's stage theatrics was a big part of it (there's videos on YT if you're curious.) It's one of the better songs on the album, although I'm not a big fan of early Marillion in general. I like the concept of welding spunky prog rock to an early 80's production style, but IMO the only positive about this album is that it happened at all and allowed better bands to make better albums (*cough* IQ's The Wake *cough*). As for where to go next you might as well take them in order so you can see the progression.

[@carstenhorn5075]

Then that must be the fantastic 2020 remix. As far as I'm concerned, Ian Mosley could have re-recorded the drums 😉

[@aurexyb]

Here, I hear a pastiche of the theatricality of Hamill, the melody of Banks, the virtuosity of Gilmour, but the drums of John Mayhew... I prefer the live version of this song. Unfortunately still relevant!

[@A.J.Globetrotter]

this was the most important song during my youth

[@maciejkrasuski]

Nice comments, but we've to understand that you're talking about debut album version which has youth deficiencies.. Band reworked Forgotten sons and live version is crisp, exactly in point dramatic and just perfect. Pity that we're not listening the live version from "Real to Reel". This is probably one of the best Fish era songs of Marillion.

[@JustJP]

Very true Maciej! Ty

[@ZSAZSS09]

You didn't like the first half of the music, that's ok, i guess. However, i don't see how the second half would have worked without the first half? And I disagree with you regarding the drums, i tink it fits in, regarding the background of the song. It is also the thing analyzing a song/tune from early eighties with glasses from 2024, it's all about context here. I bought the album when it was released ( i'm getting old, i know) and was blown away! I hadn't heard such music since the early Genesis, so naturally inhad to buy they cassett, it was before cd players was invented . I managed to wreck a couple of them before i bought Fugazi. Early Marillion is like early Genesis on steroids.😂

[@JustJP]

I hear ya Zsaz :) Thank you

[@NOOne-im5vg]

You're, I think not getting the criticism of the UK government. The conflict was not one of "traditional warfare". Non of our boys wanted to be there.

[@iaincoleman5947]

Misplaced Childhood is Marillion's big album, it's the one that really made them as a band and it has the hit singles that people still remember. Personally, I think their best album is Clutching at Straws, and I do think it would be interesting to go through their albums chronologically, but if you only do one more Marillion album then Misplaced Childhood is the obvious choice.

[@stephenhillier3522]

I loved this when I was young and saw them live a couple of times with Fish. But I find it difficult to listen to now. I really don't think it's dated well, or maybe my tastes have changed. On the other hand, Marillion themselves moved on and, in my opinion, got much better, so if you want to try more, go to something slightly more recent, such as Marbles or FEAR.

[@ScottatHouseonaHill]

The drumming on the studio version is shite, which is why they sacked him and got a better drummer in Ian for the second album, Fugazi-onward.

[@tullfan2560]

As a few time listener of Marillion, I think the singer is trying too hard to be Peter Gabriel in this song at least.

[@Consan67]

Being a teenager in 1983 and having just missed the big prog era (1970-1980), just then, briefly Marillion worked well as a substitute, a bit like a "poor man's Genesis" (also bands like Pallas). But I really don't think these records have aged very well. The drummer on the debut album is not that good, I think he completely lacks basic technique and a sense of dynamics in his playing..... and the drum sound is exactly as expected, 80s-horrible

[@AriadneJC]

Whlie I can always listen to the albums "Clutching at Straws" and "Misplaced Childhood", the first two with Fish have always left me feeling... I dunno... just bleh. It's almost like the first two albums are rehearsals or demo tapes or auditions or something like that, feeling amateur and rather limp in comparison, stabbing out in random directions to see which direction feels good before they actually know.

[@Ursulauu]

I agree about Fish's vocals. I love early Marillion, but feel Fish always tried a bit too hard with his vocal range. (Sorry Derek if you're out there)!

[@Yesquire0]

You mean, correctly I will add, that Fish sang poorly, but with great passion within his very limited vocal range.

[@clarkem4119]

Fish was never a great singer, but I think he was a great vocalist. Always interesting to listen to. I totally get why people don't like his singing, but "the new guy" just bores me. H has a weird "thick" sound to his voice that I have never been able get past, and I drifted away from Marillion after Brave. Even though H is more skilled as a singer, I still prefer to listen to Fish. I honestly like Fish's melodies more too, they seem more imaginative and varied.

[@Yesquire0]

@@clarkem4119 Once you start a comparative evaluation of Fish's and h's lyricist and composing skills, IMHO they are on the same level: excellent. But I do think Fish has a much angrier and bitter tone to his works, while h is far more introspective and gentle. It may explain the divide among fans to some degree. Gentle introverts will be drawn to h, while angry extroverts will be drawn to Fish. Apart from those musings, some people prefer a clean vocal delivery, while other find a bit of a raspy and more complex voice to have more distinctiveness and character. When you listen to an h live performance, when he is using his chest voice to be heard above the instruments in the band, I can hear a bit of a double voicing maybe from the sound exiting through his mouth and through his nose at very slightly different times. He naturally already has, with his chest voice, a quality I would describe as as octave singing. I hear the note both in one octave and again one octave lower. That is very unique, and maybe the "thickness" you find unpleasant. I have to say, despite being a huge h booster, that h has a tendency to regress into a very weak head voice on the studio cuts and in his solo act, and I'm not very fond of that technique which h must think is the best way to convey poignancy. That is why you should never listen to a studio cut if a live version is available.

[@clarkem4119]

@@Yesquire0 "Gentle introverts will be drawn to h, while angry extroverts will be drawn to Fish." I'm an angry introvert. :) I do love lots of H's performances. "Space" blows my mind. "Easter" is gorgeous. There is a song I have a love/hate relationship with. Dry Land. I am really not fond of the verses, specifically the keyboard chords, and I know Mark is just playing the part from the original song.. but then the pre-chorus happens, and I am like, "oh hang on a sec, this is better..." and then the chorus hits, and it's absolutely *glorious*.

[@gphill3954]

The BBC Friday Rock show version is infinitely better than this over produced effort.

[@jfergs.3302]

There's also so, so, so many other bands... No need to rush back to this lot of derivative prog wannabes. You've been here, done this, maybe time to move on. I'd have thought the vocals enough to put anyone off.

[@vladtheinhaler6647]

Says the AC/DC fan ffs! You're talking about boring yet love a band who's songs all the same. You utter, utter tit.

[@aronschwarz236]

Still better than Yes

[@jfergs.3302]

@@vladtheinhaler6647 Yes, the DC's have their own particular sound, but it's a good one, and has stood the test of time. Whereas this lot who're just trying to be a hybrid of all the big artists of the time just sound like everyone else. Hence all the comments comparing them to other groups, and my use of derivative. But worst of all Fish's vocals, and the silly cadence... I think he though he was being asked to audition for The Goons myself :)

[@jfergs.3302]

@@aronschwarz236 Now that's just crazy talk... Well, unless you mean Yes post Going For The One that is 🙂

[@delorangeade]

I think I might have suggested to you listening to the Afraid of Sunlight album, if you wanted a different perspective on Marillion. I don't know if you did, but I suspect the band just isn't for you under any circumstances, just as I have never come to terms with Yes, since somebody else raised that band as an example. I do agree that this channel would not be well served by any further exploration of the Fishe era of the band, even though there are things about it I can still enjoy.