The Edmund Fitzgerald Mystery

[@MaritimeHorrors]

Good news shipmates! Channel patches are back on sale! If you want a patch, hit us up! www.etsy.com/listing/1268177034/maritime-horrors-morale-tactical-patch

[@binoculord]

The real mystery is why she was tack welded,a buddy of mine's dad sailed on her and knew the crew and rang the bell for one of them at one of the many ceremonies for the Fitz.He had some harsh words about the Fitz.He is still alive and shall remain nameless on this post.

[@Plug_McWalkin]

Every sailor loves his morale patches! I (Canadian Navy) traded some with the Japanese and Korean navies a short while ago. Will be looking into and wearing yours soon as well. I plan to sail on the Great Lakes freighters myself to be closer to home in Ontario once my contract ends. Love the videos about the ships I've heard from family since I was a little kid, keep it up!

[@stoveboltlvr3798]

21:21 Fitzgegald?

[@SPDRED551]

There were no survivors in the sinking of the Edmund Fitzgerald may all the 29 crew members rest in peace

[@binoculord]

@@SPDRED551 People who did serve on Fitz and went to work on other ships survived,and were roommates with some who stayed on and died

[@teresamatson4337]

I lived in Marquette at the time it sunk. I remember that storm, and hard to forget. Watched it go past as we were outside watching the waves crash. A few of my friends had family members who were crew on her. I still tear up to this day thinking about the pain they suffered. If you go to the maritime museum you can see what is left of a lifeboat they found….it looks like a pop can someone just twisted into two pieces. This video was a very respectful piece. Thank you.

[@GoGreen1977]

I was at college in East Lansing, Michigan, hundreds of miles from Lake Superior and I still remember how forbidding it was that dark November day/night.

[@annettepiff9759]

Thank you for sharing.

[@marieschappacher5419]

I was in Cudahy WI Fitz was my same age

[@wattetiparoch]

Thanks for sharing your story.

[@randysumners4021]

That's the day I was born.... in Muskegon Michigan

[@eithnemelee2997]

I am a geophysicist with a particular interest in wave dynamics, and I truly believe that a rogue wave sank the Edmund Fitzgerald. Here is why: there is nothing else that explains just how *quickly* she disappeared, and that there was no distress call sent out. The details: The reports from the Anderson indicate that the sinking must have occurred between 19:10 (last radio communication with the Fitzgerald) and 19:20 (when the crew of the Anderson realized the Fitzgerald was no longer on their radar). The 19:10 communication suggested that the Fitzgerald, while having navigational issues, was not in immediate peril. Even if she ran aground only seconds after the 19:10 communication ended, I find it very improbable that a vessel of her size would have sunk so quickly as to have completely disappeared from the Anderson's radar only 10 minutes later. I believe that she was hit by a rogue wave or series of three rogue waves in this time period. Lake Superior is more than large enough to generate rogue waves; this is suggested in much current research into how rogue waves form. In the reported 25+ foot seas, a rogue wave could have easily reached over 60 feet in height. Rogue waves are also much steeper than normal waves. The combination of her inflexible design and the steepness and sheer height of the wave would have created immense forces on her hull. I believe that she quite literally broke into two down the middle as the wave passed beneath her (this has been documented happening in other ships in large seas). Water would have rushed in at an enormous speed and both halves would have quickly capsized, leaving no time for anyone to radio a distress call. A vessel split down the middle, in such large seas, could easily have sunk within ten or so minutes, leaving no trace on radar when the Anderson looked for her ten minutes after her last communication. I would kill to see the shearing patterns on the two halves of her hull at her final resting place. Whether I'm right about this or not, may the 29 souls who perished that day rest in peace.

[@DeborahRosen99]

You may be able to find the information you'd need to prove or disprove this theory from records of the dives that found the wreck and explored it. A lot of people would be genuinely interested in a forensic analysis if it were done with proper respect for the sailors, the families and for the truth of what happened. It's worth noting that she was overloaded: 26,100 long tons of taconite, when she was rated for 26,000 long tons. 100 tons makes a big difference in any industry, not least of all in a ship that flexes on all axes from the force of wave and wind. Overloading the ship by 100 tons' displacement forced the ship to ride lower in the water than she should have and reduced the amount of freeboard she was calculated to sail with. That would have exposed her weather decks - and all hatches on them - to much greater forces from the storm-whipped waters and water is relentless.

[@donnakawana]

@@DeborahRosen99 very interesting.. it just seems that rouge waves or not . I've seen some crazy sea's out there. I do not doubt with it being over loaded then the water added in... You also have to account for the back an forth sloshing of the water logged cargo without baffles of some sort to stop such occurrences she wud easily break an sink quite fasti don't believe she wud have a center split from the aft part we see upsidedown... That tells me the aft was weighted down more than the foredeck... Once she twisted an broke ... She sailed down to the bottom pretty quick... The over weight an added water an confused sea's... That's what I gleamed from my years of experience...an listening to my Captain talk about it...

[@TheJustinJ]

Look where the bridge is located. A large wave that came over the bow would probably come through the glass and immediately incapacitate the crew, radio, and electronics. Without an engineering analysis on the actual blueprint of the boat structure, there is no way to say for certain what might have happened. But there could have been a glaring deficiency in design that was left unknown or possibly known by some and never acknowledged.

[@xxxxxx-ow2hp]

@@DeborahRosen99 With all due respect, that 100 ton you are referring to is 0.4% overload. I find it questionable that the Maritime industry would set a max load, that when exceeded by 0.4%, would create catastrophic results.....even in storm force winds. It would be like setting the max pull of a pulley @ 100 tons.....but @ 100.4 tons it fails ( mind you, in ideal conditions ). I would be thinking that the 'Industry' would be setting their max load, @ minimum, 25% below what would be considered the smallest of risk in adverse weather conditions. But please, prove me wrong, respectfully.

[@rcnut5112]

You are correct and I am most certain it was massive rogue waves.

[@FireTeamHarmony]

I expected 30 minutes of Gordon Lightfoot on a loop. But this is so much better.

[@DH-rt2wl]

I can't stand that song.

[@pantherplatform]

If there's a comment that _isn't_ about that stupid song, I'll be surprised.

[@misterrain837]

Hahaha. Yes. Thank goodness.

[@ElimGarakSpoonHead]

@@pantherplatform Fu c k you i like the song.

[@freddieellis8449]

I laughed because you are wrong

[@TiredEyes]

As someone who lives in Michigan, the lakes are far more like freshwater seas. If you look towards the horizon from the shore to try and see the other side of the lake, all you see is more water stretching as far as the eye can see, just like looking out on the ocean.

[@AnUnsuspiciousBox]

Yeah, I live in Toronto and even though Lake Ontario is Smaller than Lake Michigan you still can't see over the horizon. Just water. In fact, if you're on the Niagara side of Lake Ontario (opposite of Toronto) you can see the curve of the Earth because you can't see the bottom of Toronto skyscrapers

[@ThatElephantSeal]

Yeah the great lakes should honestly be considered inland seas, on a similar scale to the Caspian. I think its because its all fresh water that they cant use that definition.

[@EperogiLimousine]

@@ThatElephantSeal and because the Great Lakes are not the ultimate draining source, the Great Lakes surfaces are not sea level and drain into the ocean, unlike seas which are basically a groundwater fed ocean tributary

[@blondbraid7986]

@@ThatElephantSeal I thought they were remnants of the large sea that covered most of the middle of USA millions of years ago.

[@catbyte0679]

@@blondbraid7986 No, they were formed from glaciers. Scientists estimate they are anywhere from 7,000 to 32,000 years old so that makes them infants in geological time.

[@plank3947]

The Great Lakes are beautiful, but with beauty often comes danger. Mateo, a kid I sat next to in English class, dove in trying to save another kid from our school. The water was too cold, Chicago winters are hell. He saved the other kid there. We hung flowers from his locker for weeks after it happened. None of us ever forgot, and I hope you all remember him too. Mateo Garcia. A hero.

[@ForExampleJon]

Damn Mateo you a real one ❤️.

[@paulfolden3173]

Not real next

[@wondabiz]

@@paulfolden3173 all you had to do is look it up and you would see that it's real

[@johnhurd6243]

@@paulfolden3173 I know it's hard for you to see the truth in things. But I remember this story. Absolutely 100% true.

[@chloehennessey6813]

@@paulfolden3173 Lazy head ass. Google is your friend ya malingering shit stain.

[@darthcheesecake3392]

I know it's really a minor thing. But it does warm my heart to see how tight a bond the people who ply the lakes have. They all know the lakes are dangerous, they all know what they face and that they're in it together. Taking your ship back out into a November storm on the chance of helping is noble.

[@just-dl]

I agree. Another area I’ve heard this same idea is how in ww2, ships would pick up enemy sailors from the boat they just sank. Something transcends the fact that 20 minutes prior, they were just trying to kill each other. Had I joined the service, I would have joined the navy for this very reason. Doesn’t heard my favorite grandpa was in the navy....

[@karaayers2867]

@@just-dl same thing with pilots. Even the Nazis treated captured pilots well, better food and more freedom. Colditz castle was a good example.

[@thecrtf4953]

@@karaayers2867 why is that? Why were pilots better treated?

[@kahlernygard809]

@@thecrtf4953 they were higher ranked. Typically smarter to understand how flight worked. And they used the prisoners in exchanges to get back skilled pilots .

[@pagejustin5572]

Who knows how many lives the sinking of the Edmund Fitzgerald saved.... Could be dozens could be hundreds.... Every sailor on any Great lake must have it in the back of their mind, a reminder which cautions them & keeps them focused & never again would anyone think they were unsinkable

[@Doc_Fun]

MN native here, just wanna say this is a great little documentary. And yeah, it's really difficult to put how overwhelming these lakes are into words, I always struggle describing them to people who've never seen them. When you come up from the twin cities into duluth, you crest this big hill that sorta obscures lake superior, and when you first get that look at the lake, your initial thought is just "there's no way that's a lake." The only thing distinguishing it from a sea is the lack of salt smell in the air.

[@Doc_Fun]

@@makattak88 I do. I didn't mention thunder bay, I only mentioned superior.

[@jhtsurvival]

@@makattak88 home slice nothing about this post said anything about Canada or US just the lake

[@minnesotajack1]

My grandfather drove a tanker truck and was often called away from dinner because “the Fitz was in” and he had to go fill it. My mother also had a (former) classmate who was one of the 29

[@living-wellon-less5669]

I lived in Michigan for over 50 years and I lived in Calumet for 5 years, lk Superior is so incredible one must experience it to believe! It's just my opinion but I think when a body of water shares it's shoreline with 3 or more states and 2 or more countries salt or not IT'S A FRIGGIN OCEAN!

[@RoryL83]

@@makattak88 There's also a Thunder Bay in Lake Huron.

[@jeffryschmitz83]

I was a coxswain in the U.S. Coast Guard from June 1975 to June 1979. I spent fifteen months at small boat station Marblehead, Ohio near Sandusky Ohio. I've sailed in every ocean except the Southern Ocean and the Artic Ocean as a merchant mariner, having said that, Lake Erie and the SAR's I performed traumatized me so severely that I have 100% service-connected disability (PTSD and a left knee injury). Yeah, the Great Lakes are no joke! There is enough water in Lake Superior to cover the entire land mass of North and South America to a depth of 12 inches. Water for thought. Great piece you did on the Fitz my fellow coxswain. well done! Thank you for your service!

[@TheTrainStationOG]

Thanks for the awesome fact. I wish you the best.

[@lukeescobedo723]

Even with the grand canyon?

[@TheGhostrider9667]

My Grandfather, Richard F. Caruzzi, was sailing his 38’ Ketch, “Left-Handed Yeoman” from Barcelona, NY on Lake Erie bound for Florida on October 8, 1977. A terrible storm and a rogue wave rolled the Yeoman off of Selkirk, Ontario, sinking her and killing my Grandfather. No, the Great Lakes can never be taken lightly.

[@johnbernard2825]

😊

[@Tough_luck_kid]

MY GOD, the sailors on the Anderson had some balls, definitely heroes for continuing to put themselves in danger solely for the concern of others

[@mizzyroro]

That Captain Bernie Cooper should have received more recognition for his bravery I reckon.

[@FooFighter67]

That really must have been terrifying to be the radar guy on the Anderson, one moment you see the blip of the fitz there and the next it’s just gone

[@Realwaltersobchak]

I’ve seen that ship many times it shows what it’s been through

[@neilsiebenthal9254]

There are many stories of even rival nations helping each other at sea. Sailors, especially old sailors, have a real sense of honor for each other.

[@poowg2657]

I posted a reply to another story about the Danielle J. Morrel and will recap it here. When I was 10 (believe it was the winter of 1970) my Dad and I were invited by my uncle Bud Ladd to come down to jones Island in Milwaukee Wi. to see a ship he was working on. The ship had been winched up on shore as Milwaukee didn't have a dry dock and a huge hole was cut in the side of the stern for engine work. We went up several flights of wood stairs on scaffolding and entered the hole. After going down several decks we went through a hatch into the huge cargo hold and proceeded to a hatch in the bottom of the hold where my uncle was working on the keel. He was a welder in the Navy for 20 yrs. and was now working for US Steel. My uncle showed us where the keel plate had cracked and explained there should be smaller "keelsons" welded to each side of the main keel plate but these had been omitted during construction. He showed us scrap steel like rebar and other junk lying around the keel and said this ship and it's sister were the worst built ships on the lakes and wouldn't last more than a few years and would probably sink and take there crews to the bottom. The ship was the Fitz. My uncle said this was the 3rd time he had welded on the keel. There's all this speculation on why the Fitz sank but I think it just fell apart. After the sinking my uncle and several of his union members gave a report with documenting photos to the Coast Guard showing poor construction and other areas that weren't repaired. The ship's owners objected that this was a biased hostile report and the Coast Guard summarily dismissed it. The sinking should be blamed on the owners for poor maintenance and costruction. A huge amount of blame should go to the Coast Guard for signing off on the decrepid condition of the boat and allowing higher and higher loading weights requested by the owners. And finally the captain certainly knew of these problems and sailed into bad weather anyway. I don't think many of those boats on the lakes in 1975 would pass muster today.

[@tedp3001]

The day the Fitz went down I was deer hunting on the Bruce Peninsula on the east side of Lake Huron. As the day went on it became impossible to walk in the bush as the roots of the trees were moving the ground so much it was impossible to walk. The trees were bending and swaying in the gale force winds. We quit at lunch time as it was not safe to be in the bush. Trees were crashing down and the ground moved under your feet. I have hunted all my life and never before or since seen such winds on Lake Huron. Superior must have been even worse. I pray the Crew..... Rests in Peace.

[@mightypharaoh7586]

I live decently close to lake Michigan and the wind can get quite frankly absurd. We call 20mph "just breezy"

[@scottyfox6376]

Must have been a frightening experience for sure. I don't imagine you had a successful hunt that stormy day & if you did then hauling that meat back in those trying conditions would have added more travails.

[@dollalalalalotsagaming.8276]

Do you really pray? Or is that just a saying?

[@user-73a]

Lions are hunters, You're just some guy with a gun.

[@comusrules1244]

Wow dude.

[@itinerantpatriot1196]

My dad was part of the team that worked on the refit of the Edmund Fitzgerald. He was also a supervisor at another marine terminal in Detroit and he was friendly with the captain and several of the crew members. He took the sinking pretty hard and attended the service they had for them. I used to visit Whitefish Bay fairly frequently and I always thought of The Fitz being out there beneath the water, which I can tell you is freezing no matter what time of year you wade into it. I had friends who worked on lake boats and they would tell me tales of how rough things could get during those storms. God Bless the crew of the Edmund Fitzgerald and their surviving family members . May the Good Lord look after the souls of those who perished and grant them eternal rest. 🙏

[@chouseification]

That's messed up... I have a few college classmates with spouses working the boats, and one fraternity brother who (older student at the time) had actually applied for a spot on the Fitz right before the final trip. He got the job offer, but a welding job that paid a bit more came in at the same time; he forgot that housing was free on the boat, so his bad math saved his life.

[@havocproltd]

@@schwashank1918 wow. in the pantheon of messed up comments your is going to find a home.

[@nemomeimpunelacessit3156]

@@chouseification That dude has the really good kind of luck, the kind that saves your life. I'll fucking take it!

[@chouseification]

@@nemomeimpunelacessit3156 yeah he retired a few years ago, after a long career welding all sorts of ultra heavy duty machinery at power plants, etc - like the big ass boilers right by where the main combustion chamber is located in a multi-megawatt level power plant. I got lunch with him (right before Covid shut down casual visits) at one of the neat restaurants in Duluth sort of down by the lake where you can get a craft beer and a plate of bangers & mash. :P

[@josephkelley8641]

Amen, Dude.

[@SulliMike23]

You don't grow up in the Great Lakes area without learning about the Edmund Fitzgerald.

[@LB-ou8wt]

Or hearing the Lightwood song

[@historicartistic3531]

Facts! I grew up in Sandusky, OH off Lake Erie, and even there, the fishermen and laker sailors often tell her story in a shutter. Lightfoot's song is very popular around the lakes to this day. RIP to the crew, and Lightfoot. Thank you for telling the history of the Fitzgerald so well!!

[@EperogiLimousine]

Light wood 😆 @@LB-ou8wt

[@catbyte0679]

Yep. I grew up in Charlevoix, Michigan on Lake Michigan. My grandad was a good friend of Captain McSorley and sailed the Lakes with him for several years until he retired. Everybody I know knows about the fate of Big Fitz.

[@NoriMori1992]

I did, lol.

[@pumpkab00]

As someone who has lived in Michigan my whole life right by lake Michigan, it's true that the word "lake" doesn't really express the magnitude of these bodies of water. They are such powerful and vast aspects of nature.

[@enderdub9399]

Fr, it’s crazy. Going over the Mackinac bridge during a storm is scary, can’t imagine what it’s like being on the lake during a storm like that.

[@LSDdreams808]

Yep i live in Minnesota an when you got Duluth it looks like the lake gose on for ever

[@thefirebuilds]

150 miles across superior. It's 195 miles from Austin to Dallas (4 hours by car). Half the difference from Milwaukee to Indianapolis.

[@nobodyimportant6582]

It's why I love it. Looking out at that expanse from the pier gives me chills and I love it for that

[@Chris-hx3om]

It's not even as big as the smallest Ocean. I live by an Ocean. When an ocean storm hits you, 6 metres waves are the EASY part. Those 6 metre waves are ON TOP of 6 metre swells. In the open ocean swells can run in excess of 40 knots. And when they hit shallow water, they crest up and produce waves that surfs can only dream of. I'm only about 300 kilometres from the Southern Ocean, where a 'normal' day sees 3 metre waves on 3 metre swells. I've also been on a vessel in the North Atlantic where we were experiencing heaves of over 20 metres (that more than 60' in 'freedom dollars')... Those inland lakes really are just that, lakes.

[@seanjones2456]

I remember hearing from a scandinavian sailor that was on the lake at this time that this storm was worse than any he had been through on the ocean. He said the waves are more destructive on the lake. He had never seen anything like this.

[@sunray8136]

I agree. I was in Duluth one late spring and there was a snow storm. It was not windy up from shore but I walked down to near the lake and the waves were unbelievably huge. It was surreal...like another mystic world beyond the shore. I could feel the power from that lake. I believe that sailor. I feel like the shape and bottom contures of the lake may some how contribute to the waves size. Idk what it is about that lake but it's very mysterious

[@el34glo59]

Try going in some bad inlets in the Atlantic. He'll change his mind. But yeah it is amazingly dangerous

[@dollalalalalotsagaming.8276]

Yea, i heard this also from a Flying Dutch man pirate.

[@jimmiekeeling925]

I've always been intrigued by that part of our country, very interesting lake, superior, this friend of mine down the road who thinks he is a mariner , said that it bunny hopped an island, I can't make this up.people, ....told him that's insane a ....those type yea right ...said was shallow , I thought it was found in 550 ft of water? Anyway got lots of Tesla's and Edison's in these parts....

[@FringeSpectre]

@@jimmiekeeling925 please edit your comment to make it legible.

[@nickedgecomb9384]

In 1961 I was stationed at USCG base Detroit and used to log the ships as they passed Belle Isle . After a time I was able to recognize the ships at night by the sounds of their engines. I remember the Fitzgerald very well .

[@justjeff8202]

It was always one of the best parts being in the Navy heading to the ship and the wind would turn just so and I could hear my ship's engines over all the port noise. Every ship has it's own character, it's always sad when one sinks.

[@Hannah1998ization]

I would love nothing more than to hear your story. Modern Soldier and passionate armature sailor here 🙂

[@danalarose846]

I like your story.

[@dabgod5948]

My grandmother has a friend who her father was the cook on its last voyage

[@777dexx]

Belle island in 74 at 3 am when I saw her going past , was a sight to remember, now I live in Rio Rico Arizona, still miss the good old days in Detroit in the 60s and 70s ....💯👍

[@colebastian2906]

This is by far the best rendition of this story I have seen to date. Thank you for the details and the time it took to put it all together. As a Canadian, this is a big part of our history. It's great to see people still so interested in the details of the story.

[@BadgerCheese94]

I live in MN and I feel that the Fitz is something that brings both Canadians and Americans together.

[@Kaidhicksii]

Ok, now I've finished the video. The best Fitzgerald documentary I've seen since the Discovery Channel show, no cap. And I've already seen a number of docus about the ship. You blew it out of the water here, so a job well done. You've earned a sub. :) Now on to what I very strongly believe happened, and I actually plan on publishing my findings into a paper come the anniversary of the wreck. First, we start with the beginning of Fitz's career. She was a record-breaker, hauling record amounts of ore and setting record crossing times. Most of the records she broke were her own. Furthermore, she operated as an all-weather vessel. She didn't run away from even the worst of storms, and had thus taken many a hard beating. Now this is where the first problem comes in. Fitzgerald had a carrying capacity of about 26,000 long tons. Well the reason she was breaking so many hauling records - six to be precise - was because she was hauling more than she was built for, in excess of 27,000 tons, and more often than not. This, coupled with her setting sail in any and all weather conditions was bound to weaken her over time, which brings me to my next part. Hull integrity. Prior to the sinking, the only other accident the Fitzgerald had was when it ran aground in 1969, as well as suffering collisions with other ships and the docks three times. It doesn't matter how strong the ship is and if they are designed with these accidents in mind: they are not supposed to be suffering damage of that level, let alone numerous times. This may have very well led to her hull weakening even more than it already had. Unlike other freighters, the Fitzgerald was commonly known for having a loose keel. As a result, she would flex far more than is customary for any ship, and sailors were known for not wanting to go below while in rough seas due to this condition. Why was this the case? Enter the hull inspections, which the Fitz had undergone a number of times including just before her last voyage, when the Coast Guard found that her hull was in much need of repairs. Apparently, when the ship was constructed and underwent maintenance throughout her career, it was found that there were gaps between the steel plates, as they didn't fit together properly if I remember correctly. To quickly fix this problem, sheets of steel would be taken and just jammed and welded into place. Doesn't take a qualified engineer to recognize that that is a cheap fix and one that requires a lot more work than was put in. When all of this is put together with my first part, and once again, you can refer to the Coast Guard report on this. The Edmund Fitzgerald, structurally, was not in the best of shape. A very dangerous thing. This brings me to the final straw, the last voyage. Captain Cooper on the Anderson saw the Fitzgerald pass way too close to the Six Fathom Shoal, and he even let McSorley know this on radio. Only minutes later came the call from McSorley that he had a little problem. His fence rails were down, he had two vents missing, and he had taken a starboard list. Fence rails don't break with a ship sagging. They break with a ship hogging, and the only way that could've happened was if the ship ran aground. With the position of the Fitzgerald near the shoals - about 9 feet away specifically, which even in calm seas is much too close - and the call shortly after about a problem, I don't think that is a coincidence. Expeditions were sent to the wreck and to the shoals to search for evidence that the ship ran aground. Nothing clear was found, and so the theory was dismissed. My response is no s***. Damage was not found on the stern of the ship or the rudder, and obviously the bow is plowed into the mud so you can't see underneath it. Ever stop to think that maybe that's because the ship didn't strike the rocks in the back or the front, but rather in the middle, which btw is now nonexistent? It is completely missing from the wreck, and in my opinion it is the smoking gun. And as for the rocks, you ever think that maybe the collision wasn't as serious as you may think? Cooper once again put it best: in weather like that, it wouldn't have to take a tremendous blow to damage the hull: just some simple scraping. Think Titanic disaster, where instead of tearing a huge gash into the famous liner's hull as initially thought, that the iceberg simply ruptured and buckled the hull, creating just six small holes. There wouldn't be much water coming in at first, but gradually as the waves grew larger and larger, coupled with the load on board, the ship would be steadily pushed lower and lower into the water. Add in Fitz's excessive flexing, which would not have helped at all, and it is very possible that this led to the wound gradually growing larger and larger, as the plates buckled and the seams snapped. 0640, and the Anderson was rocked by two enormous 30-35 foot waves, with a possible third behind. Waves which Cooper described as the largest he had ever seen. Waves which were rapidly bearing down on the Fitzgerald. 30 minutes later at 0710 comes McSorley's last transmission, and minutes later the ship vanishes from the Anderson's radar. Once again, no coincidence. Even if I am wrong about everything else, there is no question in my mind that those two/three waves caught the Fitzgerald, either hitting as a series or combining into one monster, and plunged her into a nosedive, smashing her bow into the seabed below, breaking her back, and completely obliterating the midsection. The evidence is all there, from the sudden disappearance of the ship with no distress call given, the lifeboat torn off its davit by an extreme force - both common characteristics of a rogue wave - and the damage to the bow with the front smashed in. That's not something that happens by breaking on the surface and then falling to the bottom. So there you have it. Other factors that I may also add in would be the driving blizzard, which could've very likely caused the ship to be coated with ice, further weighing it down for either the grounding on the shoals or the final blow by the rogue(s). I need to hear if the Anderson or other ships in that storm also froze over to be certain. Otherwise, expect to see my final report in some sort of news headline a few months down the line. Once again, a job well done on the video, and I look forward to seeing what you do next! :)

[@MaritimeHorrors]

Greatly appreciate the kind words, very high praise, shipmate. Also probably one of the best breakdowns that I've heard. I honestly believe the exact same thing. You broke it down very well and I look forward to reading your paper on the subject. I think it's as close as we can get to knowing the truth without being there and going to the bottom with it ourselves.

[@rudolphguarnacci197]

As pointed out by Malcolm Gladwell in "Outliers" that plane crashes are usually not caused by one catastrophic event but, on average, seven smaller problems that are sometimes dismissed.

[@darrellpickering8535]

That makes a lot more sense!!

[@forgottenchild7935]

I believe your theory makes the most sense, she nose dived into the seabed with the stern twisting off and obliterating the mid section.

[@davidtheriot7404]

Your theory makes the most sense of all that I have read or heard.

[@ollieh98]

They could easily make a Dunkirk (movie) style version of this story. Where they flip back and forth between the two ships, and switching back and forth in time. Could be a really interesting portrayal of the story.

[@ahuman4386]

Reminds me of watching The Perfect Storm in the theater. People watching it (and it was packed) were so quiet, you could hear a pin drop. It really is a good movie and seeing it in the theater was like you were there. So a movie, done right, of the Mighty Fitz would be great to watch. Heartbreaking but good history to see.

[@yeanah2571]

This would be a good one, there's a few where the ship sank very quickly with no warning. The SF HYDRO is another that deserves a movie for sure

[@alexnutcasio936]

with Tom Hanks as the fateful Captain??

[@josephkelley8641]

could even do a color/black-and-white kind of thing - hadda be just BLACK out there.

[@yoshifbiagent3364]

@@alexnutcasio936 it just fits that it would be Tom Hanks

[@soteriamediaproductions6165]

Pardon if this has been mentioned. I was a shipbuilder. I believe the Fitz spanned a giant trough, her hull being supported only by the crest of a wave at each end and nearly the rest unsupported and suspended in mid-air. With a heavy load of iron ore in her holds, not many hulls could withstand that. It is easier to break a long stick than a short stubby one.

[@j.griffin]

She sure wasn’t mid-air. She only had about 11.5 feet of freeboard at the time she went down. She could have folded in a way that would be similar to what you are describing but not in “mid-air”. She was running something like a loaded supertanker- VERY deep in the water. Ships in her weakened condition have broken up on the surface, at anchor, under far less stress than what she was going through,underway. Just look up the M/V Arvin- she broke up under fairly clear skies in broad daylight in strong swells with no real whitecaps. Only half her crew survived in those cold waters and she was surrounded by other vessels that were also anchored there. Given the Fitz’s history of no longer being able to maintain headway against oncoming seas after they raised her load line THREE TIMES and her skipper stating clearly that she had become “a wiggling thing” that actually scared him, it is pretty obvious that if a massive rogue wave had hit her from behind that she would have followed the path of least resistance and broached, which is basically to slew sideways out of control by the force of the wind and/or waves. With extreme wave action, this is because as the stern is lifted the rudder no longer has any bite and the wave forcibly drives the vessel to either side as it makes the bow dig in. It is exceedingly difficult to force a ship to suddenly dive and head almost straight for the bottom. This is called pitch poling and usually happens to small vessels, especially sailboats... NOT large ships. Even a huge wave just doesn’t have the mass to force a vessel weighing some 80,000,000 lbs. to nose over and dive headfirst into the deep bottom. Waves move along the surface- a massive force from the rear would have most likely caused the Fitz to broach,capsize and then break apart on the surface. Her bow shows rather minimal damage that is more in keeping with a deep fall into the lake bottom rather than what would be expected if it were somehow shoved in while fully loaded, forcing the ship to break in half. 80,000,000lbs. of weight would have caused extreme obvious damage if it had driven her into catastrophe there on the bottom. All she had to do was break up as she rolled or capsized and then broke up- the remains would then have easily tumbled on their way down. They ended up some 170 feet apart. Either way, no signals would have gotten out and no one would have gotten out of it... alive.

[@aircraftnut15]

@@j.griffin 🤦

[@jonathanerickson1543]

I saw a lecture done by a gentleman who covered, what I believe is not talked about enough, was the guild quality of the Fitz. Much like the titanic, it is possible the Fitzgerald, which was also pushing engineering at the time (largest laker) was pushed to it's limits. And it may have failed on itself with a combination of year's of heavy service being pushed under by the perfect storm.

[@packardexelence]

@@j.griffin I AGREE;---BUT YOU EVER HERE OF --"THE WORLD GLORY'??????

[@MitchJohnson0110]

It's generally believed that the Fitz nose dived off a rogue wave causing the bow to spear the bottom of the lake, which caused the hull to buckle.

[@chexlemeneux8790]

The conditions on these lakes change so quickly it's unbelievable. We were on lake huron and it was the calmest I had ever seen it, we stopped in Grandbend for some pizza and by the time we left it was 5ft+ waves and we didn't make it more than 2 miles before our boat got over whelmed and we capsized. The boat was not meant for the big lake , in calm weather it was fine but we learned to never trust it will stay that way.

[@hunter9mm]

Being from Michigan, I have so much respect for the Great Lakes and do not mess with them. The winter on the lakes is absolutely crazy. RIP to all the lost sailors on the Great Lakes…

[@geoffpoole483]

In the UK the sea is never more than 70 miles away. I grew up 10 miles from the sea. If you're interested in what the sea can do, and the extraordinary courage of ordinary men look up the Penlee lifeboat disaster of 1981.

[@annettepiff9759]

Kaivara post -- this is the longest comment post I have ever read or even seen, and yet I read all of it with enthusiasm. I was fascinated by your additional information and delighted by your command of the written English language. Thanks for being willing to expound for our benefit. I first heard of the "Edmund Fitzgerald" from the Gordon Lightfoot song, as my older sisters frequently listened to his music. Thanks again, Kaivara

[@Emlane09]

It baffles me how huge those lakes are and should be called seas, tbh

[@jimguelde4068]

I was stationed aboard the old Coast Guard Cutter "Mackinaw" when the Daniel J. Morrell went down in 1966. All we found was wreckage and bodies. The lone survivor, Dennis Hale passed on fairly recently. His description of what happened to the Morrell that night must be pretty close to what the Fitzgeralds crew experienced.

[@MikeHunt-fo3ow]

wow.......i will look for a video on that ship

[@emiach]

What else would you find but wreckage and bodies?

[@pickmeasinner]

​@@emiach survivors?

[@Fugalphilosopher]

Just as Gordon Lightfoot's song elevated the tragic loss of the ship and its entire crew to the level of legend and cautionary tale, this video provides a wealth of information, connections and context that brings the story to life. And this, even after many, many tellings, years and voices.

[@gregGould]

The local CBS affiliate WTOL (channel 11) in Toledo Ohio did a good documentary on the loss of the 'Fitz' years ago but I can't find a copy of it anywhere, not even our local library system seems to have a copy.

[@leopardone2386]

I would be interested in a video of the loss of the MS Muncen. Thanks, great video.

[@spiritmatter1553]

@@gregGould Have you checked with CBS and/or your local affiliate? Longshots, I know.

[@Steve_Kelly_Oak]

Gordon sent me....

[@godblessamerica7048]

Rest in peace, Gordon Lightfoot! Your legend will live on in Minnesota and beyond.

[@GymChess]

It’s about the ship, not the singer.

[@godblessamerica7048]

@@GymChess Oh, look, a narrow-minded troll!

[@LB-ou8wt]

And in Canada!

[@tinypoolmodelshipyard]

​@@GymChess💯💯💯

[@jplayzow]

​@@GymChessnobody said it wasn't about the ship instead of being so quick to be negative just enjoy the video

[@Kingfish087]

My grandfather sailed on the Fitz for a few years right before it sank. He was angered and heart broken when the coast guard released there theory/statements about the hatch covera not being secured correctly as he knew the crew very well and knew that they would have properly prepared for the storm ahead. And he doesn't think those hatchest failed no matter how much water was pounding them. He believes it bottomed out on the shoal and slowly took on more water than they could pump. And he thinks metal fatigue and the use of cheap metal every winter layup on her hull got the best of her as she broke on the surface. I personally think it hit the shoal and took on water and nose dived after sagging too much and one last wave over her bow took her under.

[@klf46151]

I agree.

[@eniszita7353]

"metal fatigue" - strong possibility; those ships take a beating in rough weather.

[@qua7771]

I can definitely see that being the case. Metal can only bend so many times before it gets work hardened, and brittle.

[@brentkneebush9144]

No way she broke up on the surface, the engine and momentum drove her into the ground and then the back end continued breaking itself off in the process.

[@majoroldladyakamom6948]

... released their theory... There, they're, their.

[@montanamountainmen6104]

My wife's grandfather was a ships master ( captain) for many years. As a young sailor before WWII he proclaimed the lakes had some very severe storms. He told me he felt the " Big Fitz " may have bottomed out at 6 fathom shoals. Then a rogue wave made her " Nose Drive " giving reason no SOS was sent. He went further saying the hatch covers were not faulty meaning the weight of the covers alone made them almost water tight. I believe his theory, he was a sailor in peace and war and having seen many tragedies at sea and commanding vessels over 86,000 tons displacement I think he maybe close to spot on.

[@brianadams688]

I Agree . I think she might have been part way under when finly struck buy a road wave and took a nose dive witch would be the reason for no radio communication as there would be no time .

[@dperson6557]

I agree with your wife's grandfather's assessment of the Fitz Tragedy.. The nose went in and I'm sure the crew in the wheel house expected it to bob back up and no idea that would contradict until the pressure blew the window in. They are still in the wheelhouse bacause a guy got busted after he filmed them without realizing he had done it and made pics public in vilotaion of the Candian Ban on photographing the site and diving it without prior authorization. Plus there is trench that the nose carved nd the tail is twisted off laying near by... It was quick probably never knew what hit em.

[@danthompson4194]

@@dperson6557 Really? That’s unreal so the crew were still visible?

[@pandorabox82]

@@danthompson4194 Lake Superior is so cold that normal breakdown of organic matter is vastly slowed. Caitlin Doughty (Ask a Mortician) did a video about the Lake that goes more in depth into why that happens (and she does talk about the Fitzgerald in that vid)

[@chrisfitzchrisfitz5182]

I agree with this theory mostly- not sure about the hatch covers though- 600 lbs. of mettle vs a large wave- rogue or not… doubtful if they weren’t dogged down right.

[@djjazzyjeff1232]

When describing the Great Lakes, it's literally just the ocean. Just describe it as the ocean, it's a fresh-water ocean. You stand on the edge, you can't see across it, it's like looking out to see. I've been on Lake Superior one time in a tiny boat that had NO BUSINESS out there. We only did it because the water was literally glass-level smoothness, and we knew we'd probably never have a chance like that again. We never got more than a couple hundred feet from shore, and it was an experience I'll never forget.

[@dt4676]

We were in a 16 foot fishing boat out of Winthrop harbor and got caught in giant probably 10 or 12 foot swells and thought I was going to die once. Definitely an ocean.

[@djjazzyjeff1232]

@@dt4676 I don’t know how big of a boat it was probably about like 14ft Bayliner. Like the classic smaller size family lake-boat. Not Great Lakes, like regular lake. Lol.

[@bobbythomasfarley521]

That’s crazy guys. I’ve never been to any of the Great Lakes but I’ve been on the ocean. I probably would have thought the fresh water lakes weren’t quite as tough as the ocean but I certainly wouldn’t have seriously underestimated those huge bodies of water. Still, I would probably have been humbled. I’m no investigator but I think it was sort of a combination of what the NTSB found and the unproven theories that people have. I think the ship was taking on more water than she could pump out. Once the seas become that high, the term “batten down the hatches” comes to the fore. The Fitz couldn’t do this and once her cargo hold was so full of water, she snapped suddenly from the hard & heavy 25ft swells. They went down fast. That’s why the life boats were so badly damaged. They were ripped off the Fitz as she went down.

[@llh2385]

I grew up on the shore of Lake Erie near the Pennsylvania line. Drive South up West Ave to Rt. 84. Turn left and watch the clearings on your right. You CAN see Canada.

[@JulieWallis1963]

It’s literally a *lake* as huge as they are,they are _not_ “literally the ocean.” Sea is spelled _sea_ with an ‘a’ .

[@marcussamborski7472]

My uncle Mickey was the original engineer on the Edmund Fitzgerald. 2 of the crew that went down with the ship were close friends with my uncle. He would’ve been one of those 29 men lost had he not lost his job. He got drunk one night on shift working the Fitzgerald’s boilers and engine and there was an explosion. Every night from then on until he died, he listened to that song and cried himself to sleep thinking,”why am I still here?” True family connection with this ship

[@Insultingtruth]

Here one to uncle Mick 🍻👍🏾

[@lizzieb6311]

Wow. Survivors guilt will ruin one’s life…clearly Uncle Mickey was an honorable and compassionate man. My Father suffered from survivors guild from being one of only three survivors from his Army frontline service in Korea. Certainly Uncle Mickey is reunited with the Crew. ♥

[@bixmcgoo5355]

His explosion probably ended up causing the failure that sunk the ship. He should have felt guilty.

[@donaldcarpenter5328]

because he was a drunk, his life was saved..

[@Insultingtruth]

@@donaldcarpenter5328 Don! yo mama 🐷 work a street corner. Midnight shift .

[@midgiesdan2]

I was Ninth Coast Guard District PIO/PAO at the time of the Fitzgerald's sinking. I personally observed all the wreckage and debris recovered and was aboard the Cutter Woodrush when we obtained the first video of the Fitz on the bottom using the Navy's CURV III unmanned submersible. I attended all sessions of the Marine Board of Inquirie into the sinking. Taconic (pelettized iron ore) was developed to solve the issue of raw ore freezing during cold weather making it difficult to handle. The ore was pelletized and all moisture was driven out to facilitate handling in cold weather. The faulty hatch closures is the most likely explanation. It is unfortunate that two vent funnels were lost during the storm as it gave Captain McSorley an incorrect source of water entering the ship. As a precaution he had likely sent crew members into the cargo holds to check for water, but the Taconic acted like a sponge, soaking up the water. The ship got heavier and heavier without any water being evident in the hold. Eventually she became too heavy to shed the water over her decks, probably took a large wave over the bow and dove. At 23° bow down the cargo shifted forward blowing off all the forward hatches and breaking the ship in half due to the added buoyancy aft. The 10,000 shaft horsepower then drove the stern section into the forward section shredding approximately 200 feet of the mid body. The Coast Guard estimated from the initial dive to the ship on the bottom was about 14 seconds.

[@ragnarviews]

I worked for a shipping company on the lakes for many years. Almost no one outside of USCG believes that the hatch clamps had anything to do with the sinking, certainly not the people who actually sail the ships. Most are convinced she grounded on 6 fathom shoal, which was surveyed after the wreck and it was found that the shoal was much larger than the charts indicated. Captain McSorley reported "a fence rail down, two vents missing, and a list" not long after passing Caribou Island. Captain Cooper on the Anderson remarked that the Fitz was much closer to Caribou island than he felt was safe. Defective hatches or hatch clamps would not cause a fence rail to be down. She certainly did go lower and lower in the water, and eventually a large wave, rogue or otherwise, broke over her, causing the hull to fail amidships. It is highly unlikely the Captain would have risked sending anyone out on deck in that storm to enter one of the cargo holds, and even then no water would have been evident - the ship could not float if there was enough water to be visible above the cargo. Also, Taconite pellets were developed once the supply of natural raw iron ore was depleted. Before that , Taconite ore was considered to be of too low a quality to be used and was considered a waste product. Processing the Taconite into pellets could bring the iron content up to 65%, the same as the raw ore had been. It also performs better in blast furnaces.

[@williamnutile2929]

Thank ypu

[@jean3789]

I am so glad that you wrote this explanation of what happened because when you try to read about it you must sort through all of the nonsense and crazy theories, without actual facts. I live on Lake Superior in the UP of Michigan and still shocked at how fast the lake changes from calm to deadly. It seems that while it’s beautiful she becomes quite fierce at a moment’s notice. I have always enjoyed being on the shore of Superior no matter the weather. The Edmund Fitzgerald has always fascinated me, even as a child. It brings tears to my eyes when I think about all of the lives lost on that lake and the saying “Lake Superior doesn’t give up her dead.” I always think about the Fitz when November comes around, especially when the weather turns harsh without warning, as happens in November in our area. I would like to offer my condolences to any family and friends of the Fitz.

[@ktanner11]

My father was part of the search and sailed his entire life. He is always adamant she ran around 40' draft 30-40ft swells

[@matthewwarren7879]

I recemtly met a man who was coast guard and he claimed to have been search and rescue for the Edmond Fitzgerald

[@viscounttudon68]

Severe storms are scary stuff. My grandfather told me stories of north atlantic storms while he was serving aboard HMS Rodney during WW2, he said it was more stressful than any combat action he served through.

[@everythingsalright1121]

In combat a doctor can save your life if you get shot In the middle of the freezing cold ocean, thousands of kilometers away from land...nobody is coming to save you if you have to abandon ship.

[@MrSpartan306]

Was he there for the firing on the Bismarck, that’s a legendary ship

[@viscounttudon68]

@@MrSpartan306 Yeah, he told me all about it. I miss the hell out of the stories he told when I was a kid.

[@jasonalbert6251]

@@viscounttudon68 That’s a good indicator of just how terrifying ocean storms are. The Bismarck, pride of the kriegsmarine, the ship that sank the Hood, one of the largest battleships ever built, was not as scary as the North Atlantic.

[@baronvondank4097]

@@jasonalbert6251that is absolutely wild to think about 😅

[@melasnexperience]

Glad the algorithm recommended this to me, because this was an excellent documentary. The Fitzgerald feels like one of those cases where people really want it to be one exact cause, when it was probably an unfortunate combination. Subscribed & looking forward to what you have in the pipeline.

[@merricat3025]

I live near chequamegon Bay of Lake Superior. When you get out past the bay you don't see anything but water

[@mrinvader]

Agreed

[@Chanannagins]

I'm 24 years old and I've lived in Michigan my whole life. A couple weekends ago we went up by Sault Ste Marie for a bachelor party. We rented a house on the St. Mary's river. Right down the road from our AirBnb was a bar called the Cozy Corner. We happened to be there on November 10th. The bar rang the bell 29 times for each of the lives lost on the Edmund Fitzgerald and there was a haunting silence that occured for over a minute. Behind the bar, a freighter went by on the river. Only illuminated by the lights around the vessel. The bar owner then played the radio communication of that fateful night over the speakers. One of the coolest experiences I've been apart of. Side note: I'm also a financial advisor for Northwestern Mutual - the company that funded the Edmund Fitzgerald

[@elid3906]

Im getting shivers just reading your comment‼️

[@JoeyMartz]

cool story, Chan. Thanks for sharing, brother.

[@tyhughs9619]

I don't believe our far fetched story. This never happened anyway

[@johnhurd6243]

I call horse shit too

[@ruck27]

Sus

[@AlekWheeler]

I remember watching a documentary on Edmund Fitzgerald that had the captain of the Arthur M. Anderson interviewed and he gave his theory (which I agree with). He seemed sure Fitz grounded out on Six Fathom Shoal, which caused enough hull damage that the ship took on a list. Combined with the storm and the heavy lake, Fitzgerald was very slowly sinking (even with the pumps), until a rouge wave came, pushing the stern too high up, which forced the bow to nosedive, the cargo in the holds shifted forward, making the bow VERY heavy, but not heavy enough to fully flip or capsize, until it reached its breaking point, and snapped. According to him, this was the only way the Fitz could’ve disappeared so quickly, and not sent out the distress call. He also confirmed that a rouge wave hit his own ship around the time the Fitz disappeared from the rear. If that was the same wave, that would seem to confirm that Fitz was sunk by the rouge wave.

[@moviemad56]

Good comment. Just one little thing: rouge is something you put on your cheeks to make them pink! Pretty sure you meant "rogue"...

[@rebelwithoutaclue8164]

@@moviemad56 peoples diction is pretty bad.

[@alexhartman7230]

A red wave? Imagine that!

[@karenwilson712]

A previous post mentions rogue wave too. I know nothing.

[@alexhartman7230]

@@karenwilson712 Its the rouge waves we need to be most concerned about

[@juangonzalez9848]

Lake Superior is nothing to scoff at when she gets angry. Even on shore she is a terrible beast during the month of November.

[@juangonzalez9848]

@B Stow Try standing on the piers in Duluth during a storm. No song necessary to feel her fury.

[@mikhailiagacesa3406]

The other 4 lakes are no joke either.

[@liberatetutemeexinferis5902]

Been there. When that lake gets pissed it'll show you no mercy.

[@Big_Sierra]

They’re all extremely dangerous and should not be called “lakes” at all.

[@peterf.229]

Storms at other times of year cause ships to sink. Just sayin

[@Thekid-e5y]

being that the bow drove a deep canyon on the bottom on the exact heading that the Fitz was sailing, there is no doubt the bow went under, never came up and the stern drove her to the bottom. Once she hit bottom, the hull telescoped, broke apart and twisted off like a branch, thus it is upside down. No S.O.S was put out because they went from above water to below water in seconds...I would imagine that most of the crew that was in the stern section of the ship would still be in the ship, upside down. Sad.

[@FarSeeker8]

@@clearskies4325 A very careful examination of the bow scar should have been made. Modern forensic analysis of the damage could tell us a great deal more.

[@conniefischer3263]

I crossed the Pacific 3 times times on freighters as an MK on the way to Formosa/Taiwan. It was always a joy, though be went through a typhoon all three times. (57, 62, 68). I am fascinated by the ocean and other great waters. I remember when the song came out when I was a young adult in the US. It intriged me and made me incredibly sad. Without the great info sharing we have now, I didn't realize it was so recent. Fast forward quite a few years, and I had a teenage son also intrigued by the song. He planned to write a story about the Edmond Fitzgerald. Unfortunately, his life ended at 15, and it was left undone. Thank you much for posting this on youtube. It is very well done. I have not seen the other video you mentioned.

[@konnihall9671]

I am sorry for your loss

[@Halfstep2024]

Every time someone makes a video or tells the story of the tragedy that befell this crew and ship their memory lives on for further generations to respect and pay homage. I’m glad you made it and posted it, not enough people can in my opinion…

[@mystogan4542]

The Mystery of Deeznuts

[@TheBestKazu]

It sent chills down my spine when I heard that they saw a part of the ship just going on as if nothing happened.

[@ritamcdonald4227]

Dear God, that just chills to my my soul. May the Fitz crew and Captain rest in peace. The good ship and crew absolutely have immortality. I bless Gordon Lightfoot for his song and keeping the ship and crew in all minds of who hear his song forever more. I am a woman of the fifties who grew up with this legend and still to this day seek everything I can find on this great ship and even greater crew. Thank you for this doccumentary, it is a great one.

[@psychwardsandSCENE]

@@ritamcdonald4227 he was talking about the morrell...

[@emperorconstantinexipalaio4121]

@@ritamcdonald4227 The ship the commenter was talking about was the Daniel J. Morrell.

[@Rikalonius]

That would be earie as heck from a sailor's viewpoint in the superstructure.

[@aonghusofaolain8686]

What? What part?

[@PRR5406]

Most excellent discussion of the sinking of the "Fitz". I've been to the museum at Whitefish Point, and studied the evidence. My thinking tells me: The hull had some unrepaired fractures, she was heavily laden with ore. She bottomed out on the shoal of Caribou Island and continued on her way, which I think was all she could do given the weather. At some point the bow plowed into a wave trough and that same wave raised the stern, causing an immediate and catastrophic hull failure. The ship folded and sank in probably less than 30 seconds. God rest all lost sailors.

[@parallelpinkparakeet]

Very good documentary! I grew up on the southern shore of Lake Superior, and for some reason November storms are especially bad out there. People have been washed off of breakwalls and cliffs when the seas were rough. They underestimate the power of the lake because it's "just a lake." I've swam in Superior in the middle of summer, and the water even then was so cold it hurt to stand in it. I'm horrified to think what it would be being submerged in that water in November. May the sailors rest on peace.

[@philtru]

I imagine they quickly went into shock and lost conciousness before drowning. I hope. Drowning is the worst way to go

[@Tlyna1952]

I used to love watching the ships pass on the Detroit River from Belle Isle, Wyandotte and once from Boblo Island. I saw the Fitz many times and once in that last summer so it was a shock to hear she had sunk. Went to the museum on the Valley Camp in Sault Ste Marie where they have one of the lifeboats from the ship, twisted and torn. I have often been to Whitefish Point and looked out over the water, they were so close to safety when they were lost. When I lived in Michigan I used to go to the Mariners Church in Detroit for the sailors memorial service on November 10th. Sadly I live too far away now to go anymore, it was always a haunting yet beautiful service.

[@jonathanerickson1543]

Had the pleasure to meet Dennis Hale, at a great lakes historical convention. fascinating man with a great story. He was unsuspecting and sitting at a small table. Dozens of people walker by without knowing they passed by a lone survivor of a shipwreck.

[@dperson6557]

Read his book about 6 years or so ago... Very detailed story of what it was like to had lived through the wreck of the Morrel. He actually heard her breaking but just thought it was the achor slamming side of the hull until the power to the front portion was severed... The wool pea coat and lack of cotton clothing is the only reason he survived.

[@Wwg1wga48]

What happens to Taconite when wet?

[@jonathanerickson1543]

@@Wwg1wga48 it soaks up water. So these vessels would be taking on water without even knowing it until they saw how low they were in the water. There’s clay in the taconite balls I believe.

[@lyndacarter5090]

@@dperson6557 what is the significance of cotton clothing?

[@tedytarrify]

@@lyndacarter5090 cotton loses its insulative properties when wet. While wool retains a fair component. In short: Wearing cotton? Get wet ---> freeze. I have heard it referred to as the 'death fibre' by members of the avid outdoors community with a penchant for dramatism. Wearing wool? Get wet ---> maybe have a chance to stay warm... depending on many other factors of course. :-)

[@marcusjnewtonz28]

Arthur M Anderson is one badass and prestigious ship to turn around and go right back to look for for the Fitz after being in that hellacious storm once already.

[@emerybonner7973]

The Arthur M Anderson is still sailing

[@marcusjnewtonz28]

@@emerybonner7973 yes yes it is!

[@BoonsGhost]

Amen, Good Sir.

[@chrisparker2118]

​@@emerybonner7973 It is. Just watched it go through the Soo Locks today.

[@marklupus]

As someone who has a great interest in the Edmund Fitzgerald disaster, let me say straight out, this is one of the best-produced videos to date. Writing this on the day it was learned that Gordon Lightfoot, who sang the hauntingly beautiful tribute to the Mighty Fitz so many years ago, died.

[@interestingtidbits2435]

The Fitz came across my father's desk three times. He was chief ocean marine underwriter for St. Paul Fire and Marine Insurance at the time. He refused to insure it three times. After the disaster, I asked him why he had refused. He said: ship too old, cargo too heavy, and too late in the season on Lake Superior. I have thought about it often throughout the years. Thank you for this excellent documentary. Rest in peace, brave mariners.

[@WhiskeySpruce]

Born and raised in Michigan, you grow up learning about the Edmund Fitzgerald. I learned more details from this video than all that I have learned growing up. Fantastic details!

[@MissionaryInMexico]

After my dad separated out of the Navy at the end of World War 2, and after finishing his university degree in physics, he went to work on these great ships on the Great Lakes. I remember when the Fitz went down, and how affected my dad was by it for months. Dad was safely a landlubber by then, teaching high school with his degree until 1972, then as an engineer with the state department of transportation building bridges. I remember dad going into a very emotional depression and mom not telling my why. It wasn't until 1978 that an older sibling sat me down and told me why dad got severely depressed. He knew some of the older shipmates who has died on the Fitz. This was the end of my dad's outward displays of affection and his goofiness. People don't realize how much that events like this can hurt a person to their core. Like September 11th, 2001.

[@RicardoAGuitar]

It's one of the advantages of being an emotional flatliner like myself; nothing really changes me

[@MissionaryInMexico]

@@RicardoAGuitar It actually does affect you, and not in a good way. When we think we're "flatlining" were actually deeply depressed.

[@RicardoAGuitar]

@@MissionaryInMexico No, you don't understand - I've always been like this. Nothing really hits me like it should. I wish that wasn't the case, and maybe I'm chronically depressed, but that's how it's been for me.

[@CharlesFreck]

@@RicardoAGuitar Okay, special snowflake. Want a medal? Go away kid, you're probably not even old enough to have an account.

[@RicardoAGuitar]

@@CharlesFreck I'm 47. But I'm sure you're doing a bang-up job for the suicide prevention hotline

[@wizardofharry]

I’m not from Michigan, but I’m here to remember the legend of the Fitzgerald. Especially on this day, November 10th. May the legend live on forever

[@TingTingalingy]

My dad worked for Great Lakes Steel back then. He had to do welding repairs on the ship a few times. He said it was an impressive sized ship, compared to many we see on the Detroit river. Another friend was a Coastie for 3 decades. He's been in the Bering Sea and was also stationed at the Detroit coast guard station. He said the Great Lakes were so much scarier than any of the oceans, especially Superior & Michigan.

[@s.r.t.8758]

You've made the best video there is, on the mighty Fitz! Thank you! My Grandfather was on a shipwreck in the great lakes, in the 1930's and maritime history in that area has always been fascinating to me. He was on the Henry Cort. Thank you again for this great video!

[@grote_2018]

I've lived in Minnesota and Wisconsin my whole life and Lake Superior still never ceases to amaze me. When I drive around Duluth and the north shore I always stop somewhere and walk by the lake and marvel that I can look out across the lake and not see the other side.

[@frodomocho1329]

I agree I always say I got to get my big lake fix at least once a year.

[@josephkelley8641]

yeah I thought i was in official LAKES before - turns out they were only PONDS. (compared to lake Superior). Criks.

[@Paradox_Incognito]

The first time I ever heard of this story, I was in the 4th grade at a sleepover with my friend. We were playing in the living room after the sun went down, their siblings milling about in the room while their dad sat on the couch nearby. I don't know how he topic came up, but eventually their dad was telling us the story of the Fitz, how the lakes took her. It felt surreal, and it was one of those sort of memories that just stick, y'know?

[@ISeeYou2020]

As a young girl I became intrigued by the legend of Edmund Fitzgerald while hearing Gordon Lightfoot sing it’s haunting tale. 🎶 “The lake, it is said, never gives up her dead, When the skies of November turn gloomy’🎶 I understood this was a great tragedy and your well briefed piece helped me to consider important questions. I don’t feel I know enough to form an opinion or valid suspicion however, now..intuitively, I sense something is not…completely natural. understanding death and unfortunate events although unwanted/undesirable can still be natural. Thank you for sharing this.

[@chrismaverick9828]

Understand that only mariners can truly understand the sea; her states and moods, and her mercy and bounty, and her trials, anger, and requirement for life. As a land-lubber I can comprehend it, but cannot truly understand everything, but I know a few things: The sea will kill you if you become complacent, should never, ever be doubted, and never crossed in terms of superstition. Never change a ship's name without the proper ceremony, never leave on a Friday, and many others... Point being: Make sure your ship is proper, your crew trained, and don't provoke the sea with hubris or carelessness. The sea is a constant fight, some to remain safe, some for survival.

[@paahl1572]

My dad showed me that song as a kid. I was born 7 years after The Fitzgerald went down and grew up a two hour drive from Duluth. As a family we went every summer. I’ve seen both the SS William Clay Ford and the Anderson there and met a man who said he worked on the Fitzgerald and quit shortly before it sunk.

[@Jyxa]

I've lived in MN all my life and have family in Duluth, visited many times and experienced the "colder by the lake" effect that Superior has on the surrounding shores. Even in the blistering heat, that water is cold to the bone. I remember hearing stories about the lake, how people have even died falling into the canal beneath the lift bridge during storms. I can't imagine how it must've been for those who survived that November storm, nor can I fathom what those last moments must've been like for the 29 crew aboard the Fitzgerald. May they rest peacefully.

[@jaredphillips7068]

I live in Sacramento CaliforniaHave my whole lifepeople who come to visit think our water is tropical and warmAnd that's where they're wrong! Sure it is in San Diego but the entire rest of the state it will freeze your cojones off

[@terpenator93]

Yeah that water is so cold, legs go numb within a minute.

[@waltercampbell9787]

@@jaredphillips7068 The ocean is tropical compared to Lake Superior. Lake Superior in the peak of summer is around 38 degrees

[@paulrivers7248]

It was good but I had to stop.... his lip smacking got the best of me🤷‍♂️

[@williek08472]

I live in the Madison area, and even just going by Lake Mendota you can feel the weather change. Multiply that by a thousand and you get what happens on the Great Lakes.

[@chaosXP3RT]

I've lived next to the Great Lakes my whole life in Green Bay, Wisconsin, and you have to respect them. Its crazy when you fly out of the airport here or in Chicago and the lakes just disappear over the horizon. They truly are like inland fresh water seas.

[@patrickhill7057]

Right on I grew up in Green bay Wi, I was six when this happened, I remember watching the 10pm local news reporting that the Coast Guard was concerned over a missing 700 ft ore carrier and my Dad loudly saying (A former Coast Guard man himself, stationed in Muskegon MI) the obvious, "How do you lose a 700 ft Ship"? I look at my Mom curiously and she whispers towards me "He thinks something dreadful has happened" Ya know I was six and the next day it was presumed lost. It's one of those times in life you believe everything's going to be ok, and then it's not, it was real, and it was dreadful. This song always brings me back to that feeling. If one song can still raise the hairs on the back of my neck it's this one.

[@RavenclawFtW3295]

The Arthur M Anderson is still sailing the Great Lakes today. She was in Toledo just a couple of weeks ago, and has just started her next shipping season. Also, even though Lake Superior is the largest and is legendary, it's Lake Erie that has the most shipwrecks. An estimated 2000 of them. What I think happened to the Big Fitz is that she did hit six-fathom shoal, and that caused damage to her hull and caused the list, and that because of that the rogue wave had an easier time stressing the hull enough to break it in two.

[@GiordanDiodato]

yeah sometimes it's not a singular thing, but a series of events that leads to disaster.

[@donnhall9800]

Nicely presented. I remember when the "Fitz" went down, I was a young Marine stationed at Cherry Point North Carolina and TAD to the Comm School at Camp Geiger also in North Carolina. I think the ship took a nose dive with the three large waves in sequence that were encountered and also reported by the Arthur Anderson, carried to the bottom by the momentum of the water built up in the hold. One hell of a ride for anyone in the wheel house.

[@RonniE-wl1vt]

hello, from mcas cherry point! what years were you here?

[@mehchocolate1257]

@@RonniE-wl1vt a lot of good men lost their lives that day 😢 😢 😢 😢

[@gingataisen]

"Hush, Hush, Sweet Charlotte!"

[@Smile4theKillCam456]

God, Camp Geiger. I went to ITB there- it’s miserable!

[@donaldlyons537]

@@gingataisen good movie!

[@jeramiahwestbrook7370]

I honestly believe that she may have encountered too big of a wave and when she went over it, she flexed too much and snapped in half. The wave very likely could have blasted through the glass of the bridge, hence why there was no mayday sent out. Likely causing the crewmember or captain to be taken out in the first instance. Which would explain why no emergency broadcast was sent out.

[@VerilyVerbatim]

The image of the ship on the lake floor suggests that, but keep in mind, all of the power sources are at the rear of the ship, where the engines are. If the ship was torn apart in the middle, that essentially means no power for the forward half of the ship.

[@patrickjensen9824]

I have read that a rogue wave rolled past The Anderson from stern to bow and was heading for The Fitzgerald, and caught her full force astern, causing a nose-dive from which she could not recover. It is an interesting and logical theory, if factual!

[@DrClawandMadCat83]

Jeramiah, This was a great scenario too! I think that is what makes it so tough! So many things could have happened, but I must say, I like this one a lot!!

[@jeramiahwestbrook7370]

@@DrClawandMadCat83 Perhaps it was indeed a Rogue wave like Patrick has offered. We do not yet know the extent of the power of Rogue waves. Perhaps the wave had caused a combination of the two scenarios. The ship flexed too much, causing it to split in half, and the momentum of the force the wave caused on the ship could have caused the front of the ship to flip right on over. Or perhaps it was not just one rogue wave. And instead a series of waves. We may never know. I am not a being of higher education. Nor do I claim to be. But it is based off of my observation of boats in the Bering Sea. With the violent waves that they encounter on a regularity.

[@DrClawandMadCat83]

@@jeramiahwestbrook7370 You would be surprised of all the idiots that are out there with a degree! Don’t sell yourself short because what you said sounded pretty sophisticated to me!!

[@alexc9221]

Rest in peace to the crew and Gordon Lightfoot

[@tommo5884]

Props go out to the diligence and bravery of the captain and crew of the Anderson. They gave the crew of the Fitzgerald the best possible chance of rescue.

[@dunkirchen1940]

The story of Edmund Fitzgerald will never get old for me. I remember watching the Discovery documentary when it first aired in 1995 (I was 7) and it has stuck with me since. May the 29 men that died that night rest in peace.

[@shawnreed496]

Ever since I was a little kid in the 70's, I remember the story and song of this boat/ship, and have for some reason felt a connection to it, being from the coast of Maine, and having multiple generations of my family being sea captains, right on down to the 1600's. Such an awesome story!!!

[@oddmott7653]

I now know so much more about both the Fitzgerald & my own Great Lakes than i knew before. Thanks a ton for making this video!

[@sr71blackbird23]

Today, unfortunately, we lost Gordon Lightfoot, who was responsible for me learning about the Edmund Fitzgerald disaster. After watching this captivating video this morning, I intend to listen to Gordon's song and will salute him and the lost members of the Edmund Fitzgerald, with a drink later today. A sad day, indeed.

[@Chewbaccafruit]

I spent some time working at Pictured Rocks. One of the ranger stations has a side room with a plaque in it. The room has been repurposed, but it used to be the radio room that received the final distress call of the Edmund Fitzgerald. When people asked me about kayaking on the lake or any other kind of boating stuff, I would always tell them, especially in later summer into fall, that if you wouldn't do it on the Atlantic you shouldn't do it on Superior.

[@Falloutwiz21]

I thought the Fitz didn't put out the distress call. Or did it recieve the last radio transmission from the fitz? Sorry genuine question

[@terryfraatz424]

This is the best video on the Edmund Fitzgerald I have ever seen, thank you so much for your thorough covering of this horrific event! I recommend this to all folks who love history!

[@fabianzimmermann5495]

For anyone wondering about many people don't agreeing with the official investigation. The investigation came to this conclusion, because they found clamps, that weren't damaged, so weren't actually secured and clamps, that were damaged, so those had been secured. Apparently, this was standard procedure on the Great Lakes. They didn't secure all clamps, because the mass and weight of the hatch-coverings basically sealed the cargo-holds by themselves. My personal theory is, that not enough clamps were secured. With the storm they were sailing through, being one of the worst storms, that was ever recorded on the Great Lakes and most likely a lot of debris being around in the lake (trees and other similar things), the waves crashing onto the not completely secured hatches, maybe with some additional massive logs or other debris being thrown onto the deck as well, which caused more damage, were enough, to slowly flood the cargo-holds and sink the ship. Maybe the reported freak waves helped in sinking the ship faster or were the final thing needed, to sink the ship, but I'm not sure about how much the freak waves did, to sink the ship or if they did anything at all. Yes, Fascinating Horror's timing was very inconvenient. When he uploaded, I first thought,that it was your video. But your video is way more detailed. The Arthur M. Anderson is still around today and actually made a salute to the Fitz on the anniversary of her sinking, last year. kzbin.info/www/bejne/kHWkaaF8ZZeLr5I

[@jbatrich]

I have never sailed rough seas so I don't know what these men experienced, nor would I want to go through that kind of washing machine. I don't know why, but every time I hear that Gordon Lightfoot song, I cry. I pray for these poor souls and what they endured that night. To those that still operate in rough waters, Godspeed.

[@ttanner04]

Huge fan of the channel, I actually live in Ohio bordering lake Erie and I've always had a love and respect for the Lakes which rivals my love for shipwrecks. I'd love to see you do an entire playlist that encompasses wrecks of the Great Lakes. The Morrell, the Camloops, Cedarville, and so many other lost vessels

[@charlesholcombe9433]

I just found this channel and already I love it. Like you, I live in Ohio. However, I live in Cincinnati, but my grandparents live in Toledo Ohio. I also respect the lakes and my great grandfather used to be sailor on the freighters in Lake Erie and Huron. He learned how to swim when his friend fell overboard and he went in after him. Amazing stories always come from the lakes.

[@mikehenthorn1778]

even this ohio river boy knows that the water has no respect for you so you have to respect it always. east liverpool was my home town.

[@scottcol23]

I grew up on the great lakes. I knew the story of the Mighty Fitz well. I remember they would play the famous song on the anniversary at my school. This is by far the most detailed and well put together doc of the tragic story. Thank you for making this and I subscribed. Looking forward to more videos.

[@stevethomasinnova]

I've been fascinated by this story since I first heard the Lightfoot song , over 40 years ago. I've watched a few documentaries and read contemporary news reports. Your treatment of this tragedy is one of the best I've encountered, and I commend your efforts. I really enjoyed this video. What do I think happened? Wind from the stern, plunged into a trough, bow started to rise up and she broke in half. Happened so fast there was no time for a distress call. I think the crew died right about the time they realized something catastrophic had happened.

[@karismadawn]

48 years to the day. May the 29 men and Gordon Lightfoot rest in peace.

[@pfaffdaddy169]

I’m a seafarer on the Great Lakes on the hook right now due to a storm on Lake Erie headed to Thunder Bay for a canola run. I can say these lakes can get wild . The CSL Tadoussac killed two injured 200 at its christening when it fell of it cribbing.Bless the crew of the Edmund Fitzgerald

[@MaritimeHorrors]

Oh wow, I didn't know about that! That's horrible! Also yea, seems like a bunch of ships are held up for the squall blowing through right now.

[@absolarix]

I think I know exactly which storm you're talking about. A couple weeks ago I was on a trip to the USA to see some friends. Going from Columbus OH to Detroit MI up I-75, I was threading a break in that storm all the way up. Visited my friend in Detroit for a couple hours before we high-tailed it back to Pittsburgh, evading the worst parts of the storm the whole way. IIRC That same system was still going 3 or 4 days after that.

[@mortalclown3812]

@@MaritimeHorrors Wikipedia says 35 were injured, but I've never knows...

[@dascher2989]

Well done. I was a shipfitter in the late 1970s and early 1980s. A couple of the old salts at the shipyard had worked on the Fitzgerald during the winter layover.

[@victorsimmons6769]

I read "shapeshifter" at first and had to do a double take

[@kscorp5176]

An excellent documentary! Just the right length for my coffee break :) It's wonderful that you added so much geographical information about the Great Lakes because it gives a chill down the spine that these lakes are big enough to create their own weather. I'm Australian and the concept of lakes so large is hard to visualise. As for my opinion about the cause of the disaster I reckon she bottomed out and snapped, because the Edmund was 730 feet long and now lies on a lake floor 530 feet down. I think that the added weight of the water in the bow, combined with the stern being elevated by the crest of a wave, helped drive her bow into the floor when the stern dropped into the trough.

[@MaritimeHorrors]

That's an excellent theory, I think a lot of folks would definitely agree with that, shipmate!

[@harrietharlow9929]

That makes perfect sense. The Great Lakes, while they are not *technically* seas by definition, they *are* actually inland seas and can be as dangerous as, say, the open Atlantic. As you've mentioned, they can create their own weather. And even the storms on little Lake St Clair can be bad. On the other Lakes, they can be off-the-charts. Lake Superior is prone to seiche waves, particularly a triple train of waves, known as the "Three Sisters". The Fitz was purely at the mercy of the "witch of November" as the November storms are called. This was a tragedy for all the Great Lakes, especially, Lakes Superior, Huron, Erie, and even the baby-sized St Clair. I used to love seeing the lake boats, as we called them, plying their way along Lake St Clair and the Detroit River. The Fitz was on her way to Zug Island Steelworks, so she was dear to many Detroiters and those downriver. I remember this wreck as I lived in the Detroit area when the story broke--and the memorial was held at Mariner's Church. It's been almost 46 years since the wreck and I still cry over it.

[@spookerz35]

@@MaritimeHorrors - I agree with you that it was the 3 Sisters. Sounds like you have cherished memories of passing freighters in bygone years.

[@vtwinbuilder3129]

You get 30 minute coffee breaks?!?!?

[@jonathanbrown7250]

They are so big, planes disappear over the Great Lakes on the regular. Never to be seen again.

[@paulytat]

I am a Michigander born & bred & fiercely possessive of Michigan’s Great Lakes. Although we (Michiganders) reluctantly share OUR 4 out of 5 Great Lakes, (Lake Michigan, Lake Superior, Lake Huron & Lake Erie…all who touch the borders of our great state, the only one that doesn’t is Lake Ontario) with other states & Canada, Michiganders proudly hold to the fact that the Great Lakes are OURS! I remember November 10, 1975. I could not imagine what those brave seamen went through in the last hours before the Fitzgerald went down. Thank you for this informative video.

[@ReverseGear-d4e]

*cough * put in bay *cough * the other bass islands *cough*

[@Name-vu1kn]

A largely unknown story I’ve been told by a few laker sailors is that the EF’s captain was coerced into taking this trip. He had a very ill wife, who’s health was deteriorating, which was his motivation for retirement. When he protested taking this trip citing issues with the ship and weather the company quietly threatened to revoke his family’s healthcare. Knowing it would kill his wife to loose the care he took the trip.

[@DrClawandMadCat83]

Wow! I would like to hear more about that!!

[@Name-vu1kn]

I was told this over lunch while in Duluth with some co workers. One of my co workers had sailed as a chief engineer for 30+ years on Lakers, he then worked at the shipyard in Duluth. He knew most of the crew of the EF by first name.

[@johnhurd6243]

I've never met anyone that didn't know the story

[@Name-vu1kn]

@@johnhurd6243 It may be widely known if you live in the upper Midwest. But I don’t know a single documentary, on KZbin or otherwise, that mentions that the captain was likely strong armed, with a threat that could kill his wife, by his employer.

[@maidenrulz73]

@@DrClawandMadCat83 sure…..he ended up taking the trip and hit a storm in Lake Superior…..the ship went under around white fish bay and took all aboard with her…..his last transmission was “we are holding our own”

[@JamieSmith-fz2mz]

The boats that went back out to look for the Fitz were heroic to the point of crazy. The Anderson is still on the lakes, but the Ford was chopped up, and the wheelhouse is now part of the Dossin Great Lakes Museum in Detroit.

[@patreilly2445]

Peter Pulser ran a very tight ship when he was captain of the Fitzgerald. If you look at the pictures and footage when (7:47) Pulser was captain and the ship was going down lakes loaded you will see that EVERY hatch clamp was done up even in the summer. McSorley did not run as tight a ship as when you see the hatch cover clamps when he was running things (9:49) there were only every fourth or third clamp done up. When asked about that it was a cost saving thing implemented by McSorley so he did not have to pay more in overtime to the seamen when preparing to sail after loading and unloading. It took a lot of time to do up and undo all of those clamps. The hatch covers were designed to have ALL of those clamps done up so if they were not all tight as the Coast Guard reported in their final investigation then the integrity of the hatches was in question. As for the railing been down and the vents been sheered off on the port side half way down on the deck I have a theory on that. The Fitzgerald had spare propeller blades lashed down as storage on deck in the area where these vents and railing were reported down. Due to the heavy waves and wash over the decks these may have come loose and been lost to the port side due to the wave direction. Once the water started entering the hold area trough these open vent holes a design issue caused the Fitzgerald to list to port and that excess water in the hold was hard to remove. A study of the design of the bilge drain piping revealed that instead of a single drain pipe running down the middle of the hold bottom there was two pipes that were spaced equally from the middle of the hold. If a list formed then some of that water in the hold would be retained instead of been pumped out. The extra water would have caused the Fitzgerald to run lower in the water and would have been subject to more water on the decks with extra strain on the hatch retainers if they were submerged during high wave events. One hatch giving out would have been the end. The theory that the Fitzgerald slammed into the bottom and caused the railing to fail was never proven as the Coast Guard dived on and inspected the reef in question and they could see no evidence of a ship contact on the rocks. Hogging the ship on top of a reef could cause the railing to fail but it does not explain the vent pipes sheered off flush with the deck. The spare propeller blades loss would cover both of those problems.

[@joex1609]

This is expert commentary and much appreciated.

[@douglasvanbeynen6825]

Couldn’t she have touched bottom and after the spare propellers came loose? Touching bottom would also pressurize her ballast tanks to a point where the vents would blow off.

[@katrinapaton5283]

This is fascinating stuff I haven't read before. I have, however, one thing to add from a documentary on the subject, which explained why there was no radio distress signal sent. Basically, the waves were just washing over the deck and the bridge was frequently covered in water as the ship broke through the waves. This in itself didn't unduly concern the bridge crew and so no message was sent and, obviously, by the time the ship lost sufficient bouyancy that the bow never came back up it was already too late.

[@mattstorm6568]

Weren't those hatch covers so heavy that even if only a few latches were in place they were practically airtight and immovable?

[@patreilly6826]

@@mattstorm6568 The Coast Guard did quite a bit of study on hatch latches and it was found that even with all of the latches on, these covers would still tend to leak if the gaskets were not maintained. Another ship the American Conveyor had gone down in a gale of the east coast and the major cause was hatch failure from poorly maintained hatch covers. I was involved in a fatality investigation that was brought on by complacency and poor practices with a test stand for pressure testing gas compressor bodies. The compressor that caused this fatality had 36" schedule 900 LB flange faces that had to be sealed to apply pressure to the case to check for leaks after it was assembled. 24 studs that were 1 1/4" course thread were screwed into the 2" thick blind flange to allow for the 1200 PSI for the test. Over the years to save time it was decided by the crew doing the testing that they did not need to put all of the studs in the flange. When they were at the point that they were only putting 12 studs instead of 24 that 2" thick by 36" around blind flange blew off at full pressure one day. It did not even stop going until it had cut one of the workers in half and it sailed through a cinder block wall and came to rest 450 ft away from the building embedded in the front of a 5 ton truck. As with the Fitzgerald and its lack of hatch cover latches the engineers were horrified that short cuts were taken to reduce the design strength of a TOTAL system to save time. If you look at the surface area of one of those hatch covers even a 5 PSI differential from one side to the other would be measured in thousand of pounds per square inch. The pictures from the ROV show the hatch cover latches that were engaged are twisted apart like they were rubber. That was some force to do that. Those same pictures show the latches that were not engaged were just like they were installed like new. Complacency and trying to save money on turn around time was on McSorley the first mate was just following orders.

[@howiefeltersnatch2596]

I drive truck and I love listening to these stories, you have a great gift of story telling I could listen to you all day.

[@12floz67]

I was a kid living by Lake Erie and I remember that storm being really rough out on the lake the day after the Fitz was lost. That shipwreck made me remember the view of Lake Erie that day After all these years I still can see it. It’s crazy how a tragedy can make a image last your entire life. God rest those souls. Thanks for not playing the wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald.🍻

[@katiekane5247]

Lived in Avon Lake 1958-1970. Remember it well.

[@12floz67]

@@katiekane5247 I lived in Sheffield Lake 🍻

[@behindthespotlight7983]

I lived about a mile from Lake Erie and thought of the Fitz often during my brief time there

[@larryhall2805]

The previous summer I was gazing out over Lake Erie and thinking how beautiful and peaceful it looked. Then the contrast of November came.

[@davidgargiulo7964]

When I heard that contact had been lost with the Edmund Fitzgerald. I immediately thought of how their families had felt when they heard this news. I began to cry, because I am familiar with what families go through when they first hear that hope is gone. Lake Superior is a treacherous body of water. All the souls involved aboard ship and ashore listening to electronic communication, try to take comfort and strength in the fact that no ship in danger is without company and a community on the High Seas. It's wishful thinking. I am a landlubber, however, I still feel the pain and the terror when tragedy strikes any of the families who have souls in peril on the high seas. For some reason, I identify heavily with this vessel and all who were affected by her demise.

[@Liz-ls7hu]

marveling how we live in an age where we can watch amazing stuff like this for free. well researched and fantastic video, keep up the great work!

[@manks5491]

To put into perspective just how dangerous our Great Lakes are, I live directly on the shoreline of Lake Erie, and every year during the summer, at least 10 people from the city go missing or drown every month during the summer. People don't respect the power of the lake, they underestimate it and get swept away by her undertow. She's a beautiful body of water, but she's also one of the most dangerous places you can swim. Do not go passed the second sandbar. Ever. Off my shoreline alone, there are 100+ sunken boats, barges, freighters, fishing boats and even crashed planes, all from various different years, from various different excursions. There was a boat named The Edmund Fitzgerald as well, it was made in 1883, but it too sunk, just off the shoreline from my house. There is even a local legend that on nights of full moons, the Ghost Fleet wanders up and down the shoreline in search of their once lost ships and crews. There is one specific ghost apart of the Ghost Fleet that wanders up and down the shoreline in search of his head. Whether you believe in ghosts or not, its an interesting tale to entertain. I know people who have seen the Ghost Fleet first hand though, I myself haven't been so lucky. The Great Lakes are no joke. All of them are to be respected, otherwise they will make you wish you had respected them in the first place. I see it time and time again with tourists, its quite sad. The sheer power these beings hold is quite something to behold. May all the sailors and people who lost their lives to the Great Lakes rest in peace.

[@msc2u1]

That's so cool to live so close to all of that history. Thank you for sharing!

[@motherlessgoat72]

I kind of feel the same way as a Floridian when I hear of people drowning after ignoring rip tide warnings determined by the lifeguards patrolling the beaches. I've only experienced the undertow once. It was horrifying being suspended in the water, trying to swim forward but remaining stationary, and slowly but surely being pulled deeper into the enormous expanse of water beyond. I don't know how I did it, but I managed to stand and walk myself out of water. Some tourists don't respect the rip current flags, and they pay the price with their lives. This year alone in early summer, there were so many unnecessary drownings off the Gulf when it was clearly warned to stay out of the water.

[@antknee5556]

I was born in Elyria. When i was little my Grandma used to take me fishing at the stone piers at Hunington Beach on lake Erie. She would tell me stories about the lakes and showed me what Lakers were and what they were used for. She taught me to respect and fear the power of the lakes. Ive seen lake Erie go from a placid beautiful lake and transform into a raging black waved monster in less than 10 minutes. Once we went for lunch at the Marblehouse light and i witnessed the lake go from a picture post card into 10' waves with 45 MPH winds with lightning striking the water before a waterspout in the distance. This happened in less than 15 min. People who havent seen them dont have any idea. I live in California now and when I went back to college to brush up on graphics programs for web pages we had to do a kiosk project about anything that interested us. Most people did fast racy graphics with lots of movement and bells snd whistles. Being an Ohio boy and having just seen a History Channel show called Great Lakes Shipwrecks that was my choice. It took me 6 months and hours of pouring through as much history but also trying to convey the vast inland sea aspect. To those who dont know they are just lakes. So I got first person filmed accounts of being in a great lakes storm. Had a whole section on November witches. Its was interactive but I was immersed in the Great Lakes for six months reading every book i could find and watching any documentary about the Great Lakes. I could probably write my own book by now but the history and the stories of the sailors will get you hooked. People just couldnt believe those storms sank those big ships on a LAKE.That was 20 years ago and I still love to see snything i can about them. Quick question, you talked about stories on Lake Erie. Are you in Avon Lake? My Grandma told me a story about a laker that sank right off Avon Lake.

[@mitchelleroberson]

@@antknee5556November witches ??? Wha is that??

[@killingtime11111116]

I live on Lake Superior and let me tell you no matter how hot the day is it is always really cold, the nice part is, is that the water is just so clean

[@kurtbargar1618]

I lost a high school buddy in that ship wreck. He was just 20 yrs old. I have watched other documentaries on the Fitz and saw him on board with his crew mates. He looked as happy as I had ever seen him. I think of him often as I fish on lake Erie out of Cleveland.RIP buddy an watch out for me while I'm fishing.

[@gregordonnaghchaid26]

Having ridden out storms which beached boats and lost and regained one twice I can say the water has it's own life. It's powerful, unpredictable and intolerant. We who go there know each trip may be the last. Sometimes knowing what happened is simply beyond our privilege. All that's left is to say a prayer for the lost souls and treat those who remain with consideration, friendliness and our best wishes.

[@furioussherman7265]

"Does anyone know where the love of God goes when the waves turn the minutes to hours?" -Gordon Lightfoot, "The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald"

[@DAOzz83]

The inspection a week prior flatly stated that some of the hatches were no longer waterproof, and directed that they be repaired during the off-season (I have no doubt that the crew already knew this, and were preparing to do so). There was only one voyage left for the season, so what harm could come in putting the repairs off a couple weeks? Unfortunately, we found out. I've never put any stock into the idea that the hatches were improperly secured, mind. It's just that a few of them were rusted through in enough places that water would get in, no matter how well secured. Couple that with the fact the ship's 3 cargo holds were not watertight between each other, and you have a recipe for slow but steady flooding, coupled with unfortunate free-surface effects, once the water builds up enough. Each wave pushes the boat down just a little more than the last, but no one wave seems worse than another to the humans on the deck... until a tipping point is reached, and down she goes. Did she bottom out on the shoal, too? Maybe. We'll never know. But I don't think she would have gone into the shoal if she wasn't already wallowing from taking on far too much water. That McSorley never realized how much control he had already lost seems incredible to us, from the comfort of our computer chairs, 46 years on. But we we've had much more time to think about it. We've seen (or I've seen) videos of ships experiencing gradual flooding with their crews blissfully unaware. We know the _Fitz's_ actual course, plotted from her wreck and cross-referenced with the _Anderson_ by numerous experts. All McSorley had was the feel of the deck under his feet, and whatever information he felt was reliable from the _Anderson_ . So maybe the hatch damage led to shoal damage, and that was the deciding factor. Who can say? I still think it was the hatch damage that was the start of it, and ultimately, the most important thing. But I'm not a mariner (or a laker). Take it for what it's worth.

[@just-dl]

Well said. I agree that it was very unlikely to have involved improper closing of the covers.

[@ecatsa7513]

add that to the fact she was loaded too full, (summer level) and.. i saw in another documentary that taconite pellets absorb 8 or 9 lbs of water per cubic foot. I am new to Great Lakes stuff, re-learning about the Fitz, RIP. I'm gradually combing through info, and I've only seen in one place, mention of how absorbent the pellets are and what significance it could have played.

[@towboattrash]

I find it interesting they reported taking water around the time they were passing the shoal. I had no idea about the shipyard report a week earlier….find that interesting also.

[@pbgd3]

The deck rail being down is telling. Likely the boat bounced on the shoal bending the hull up in the middle making the deck rail too short and dropping the rail. Bear in mind this would be heavy welding steel railing it was pulled apart. This bending likely also dislodged the hatches.

[@donaldcarpenter5328]

I was a Rigger at Todd Shipyards and the Alutian Enterprise, a fishing boat owned and operated by the FAMILY of Senator Slade Gorton was in for several COAST GUARD ORDERED repairs, a weeks worth of work. One of the repairs was to a hatch door that wouldn't shut. Rep. John Miller, a GOP on the House committee that controlled the budget of the Coast Guard TWISTED ARMS and got a WAIVER for MOST of the Coast Guard MANDATED REPAIRS. The Alutian Enterprise went down BECAUSE OF THAT FAILED HATCH DOOR KILLING ALL but 1! Did Miller of Gorton EVER FACE MURDER CHARGES???? NO, THE GUILTY RICH & POWERFUL ARE NEVER HELD TO ACCOUNT!! Just ask Trump, Bannon, Rudy G, McConnell, McCarthy, Murdochs, Spencers, Flynns,Barr, etc...

[@darryl3422]

I was ar sea in the Navy when it happened Whether you sail the sea or the lakes the loss of a sailor hurts We blew three whistles for the men of the Fitzgerald

[@antonleimbach648]

Great video. I was a Fire Controlman in the USN and remember going through storms on a Destroyer. Walking on the bulkheads as the ship listed, or stuffing my boots under my mattress so I wouldn’t fall out of my rack. The ocean is so powerful and you really feel it when your at sea.

[@fenderstratguy]

Can you imagine how terrifying it was knowing you were on a LAKE and still were getting hit with that?

[@scottydu81]

This is interesting to me, as I was an Aviation Electrician’s Mate on aircraft carriers, and it’s a fairly smooth ride even through monsoons. Rather than stuff boots under my mattress, I had to stuff in earplugs at night because I always ended up in a berthing either right by a catapult or right under the arresting cables

[@robinnickel413]

Thanks for spending time and researching this ship, storm, and deadly accident. It is refreshing to see the new images and hear some of the “back stories” I’ve not heard before. Our family followed this story since 1975, as we are from the shore of Lake Superior. Your work is appreciated!

[@nightshadehelis9821]

I have so much respect for sailors. There's absolutely no way I could ever fall asleep on a ship during a storm, especially when the water is freezing. I would always wonder if it was about to sink with me in it.

[@bradleye660]

Same here. One of my biggest fears is being stranded, in the water not on a ship, in the middle of the ocean. It is terrifying. The sailors who do this shit for a living are nothing short of warriors. Respect to all of em who traverse the big blue.

[@pursang6792]

I spent 21 years in the US Coast Guard, five years on Medium Endurance Cutters which are extremely top heavy leading to horrid snap rolls. The first thing you learn is to put your boots under the outside of your mattress. This pushes you into the center partition and prevents you from being tossed out of your rack. You just hope the guy next to you isn't a snorer. I always picked the first rack right on the floor, couldn't imagine being on the top rack (3 highs) in heavy seas. One of the joys was doing fisheries patrols in the NW Atlantic in the winter. I always lost a lot of weight since you never felt like eating. And of course, knocking off ice with a baseball bat in sub zero temps. Good times...Good times!!

[@dianehuizenga1476]

I have lived near Lake Michigan my whole life I'm 65. I remember when the Fitzgerald went down. The vastness and size of the Great Lakes is nothing to sneeze at. These lakes demand respect for their danger. They are like inland oceans and every bit as dangerous. RIP to all who have lost their lives in these wonderful but dangerous Great Lakes.

[@danabogue1804]

Metal Fatigue. She was in a heavy, rolling sea, and broke up. The issue occurred in WW2 with the liberty ships. Steel will become brittle in cold temps, and in a twisting rolling sea the metal would fatigue and crack. The fix was a heavy band of steel from near bow to stern.

[@TomArcher2007]

Agreed..

[@danalarose846]

Correct

[@fredericcolombier5380]

Same thing for the Titanic and the Iceberg , bad made metal & freeze .

[@Bigwavemaster1]

Yep! Never been any mystery. Built on the cheap and of a crap design.

[@glennpowell3444]

@@fredericcolombier5380 And her cheap iron rivets they used.Plus she had had a coal bunker fire the days before against her hull which weakened the rivets prior to the strike.Iron rivets are not tensile and become brittle quickly.The iron rivets on Titanic and her sister ships were "Best" class as opposed to " Best Best " class that was recommended by Harland and Wolf" who built them.Cost cutting changed the grade down.

[@Jackietreehorn-z5e]

When I saw Gordon Lightfoot live in a small auditorium he explained his reason for writing it. While singing it, I got goose bumps because it tells a surreal story. I've always been fascinated by this story.

[@jimzeleny7213]

So what was his reason?

[@jonbrown9641]

cardi b voice

[@jeffrogers5929]

I know what you mean - The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald is my favourite Gordon Lightfoot song and it is so poignant. The arrangement is excellent too, setting the mood for the song. Rather like Hendrix's All Along The Watchtower, the music paints a vivid picture.

[@1981lashlarue]

@@jimzeleny7213 You can look it up, but I believe he became interested after reading the story in a magazine.

[@jelau4851]

@@jeffrogers5929 The chords progression in this sad song is so haunting , it stikes emotions like if we were on the steamer, Gordon caught exactly the kind of feelings going through the sailors mind. RIP, FOR THE CREW.

[@thezombiecreeper]

For an even bigger scope of just how gargantuan the Great Lakes are, I live on Lake Ontario (which is the smallest of the five lakes). I can barely see the skyscrapers of Toronto from where I am, but that is the ONLY thing you can see looking from New York towards Canada. And that’s only thirty or so miles.

[@GooberFace32]

I grew up on Lake Ontario. I never was able to see Canada from my portion of New York even though some others said they could. To be fair, there were no skyscrapers across the lake :).

[@betterthanyesterday3912]

For another scope of it's size, consider this: I am 6'3" and 192 lbs. When I jumped into Lake Superior, I detected no rise in the water whatsoever. Its DEEP!

[@flexch2011]

@@betterthanyesterday3912 hahaha.. good one...

[@jkl799]

I have chronic migraine... I can't read books anymore because of my eyes. So I switched over to audio books/content. Your voice is just the right tone.. it doesn't hurt my head. I can listen while my migraine works itself out. Thanks

[@DoggosAndJiuJitsu]

The best assessment I’ve seen is that the Fitz dove deep a few times in the rough waters. The crew expected to return to the surface like that had through the previous dips, only to take on too much water and not bob back up. That explains the lack of a mayday call, as well.

[@UnitSe7en]

So why is she in two pieces? If she nosedived, she would have just driven straight into the bottom. No, she broke in half suddenly on the surface, the bow then taking the dive and driving into the bottom as it did, upright, while the stern rolled over and floated down. Too suddenly to raise an alarm.

[@DoggosAndJiuJitsu]

@@UnitSe7en we may be missing each other here, friend. She was encountering waves as high as 60-90ft from highest to lowest point. The keel may have begun to break but your theory doesn’t explain why there was no opportunity for the crew to call out. Mine, and the same theory held by many others, creates a plausible scenario where she had been diving through huge waves and finally hit a dive that overtook the ship. Or why not both? Your absolute certainty that everyone is wrong seems a little challenging to use to explain the situation.

[@manofmanymemes6939]

@@DoggosAndJiuJitsu Just to add to your comment, the ship would've broken her back if she did a nose dive into the bottom anyway. I'm no maritime engineer, but just looking at pictures the ship, something over 700 feet long and thin in the middle would easily (maybe not easily but you get the point) break in half with the force of the nose slamming into the seabed.

[@Constance_tinople]

@@UnitSe7en she snapped in half when she hit the bottom as the sudden stop of the bow compared to the intense wave pressure pushing on midship and oppositely on the stern snapped her in half. This also explains the stern being upside down yet in nearly the same place as the bow

[@SamOddy]

I’m from the UK and I remember coming on to land at Cleveland and looking out and genuinely thinking we must be by the ocean. I don’t think anyone realises how big they are unless you’ve seen them

[@danielpetrucci8952]

The great lakes are big but lake Ontario is the smallest if you go up the CN Tower you can see across into New York State and even see the Welland Locks connecting Lake Ontario to like Erie hell you can even see Niagara Falls

[@mrmadness2699]

@@danielpetrucci8952 Sam Oddy was looking at Lake Erie in Cleveland

[@devinisdead4061]

Right mate. I thought the same thing when i saw the Great Lakes. Had to be the ocean. No bloody way you can call this massive body of water a lake 😂

[@Linki8uu]

@@danielpetrucci8952 I thought Erie was the smallest could be wrong though never seen Ontario never been to New York only the 4 lakes surrounding my home state of Michigan so again could be wrong correct me if I am

[@meatisadelicacy]

I grew up in Chicago. I didn't realize until recently that people don't understand that the Great Lakes are big ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[@jaydeeeze]

A few things were left out of this story. 1 really important thing was that the captain had said in 1 of his radio calls that the deck chain on 1 side had snapped. As a captain he would have known that not many things could snap that chain and if it happened because the boat was flexing in the middle so hard that it ripped the chain apart he knew he needed to get to calmer water or risk the boat ripping itself in half. I’m pretty sure when he was talking on that radio call he also had mentioned that the bow kept going under and popping back up. They think he mentioned the chain and bow because he knew he had a problem but was hoping that he would be able to get to calmer water before anything else serious would happen. But unfortunately he was wrong. I watched a video reenactment of what the ship had went through the night it was lost and what kind of waves it would have taken to drive the bow under and it was scary. And they also showed a hatch cover that was known to be missing and how much water the boat would take on and it was enough to sink it. In the reenactment it showed the boat going into waves and cutting through them but after a while it started to get heavier and the front would dip below the waves and pop back up before the next one. And the wave the took it down it went over and when it was coming down the back side the front of the boat was driven down into the water but it had taken on so much water at that point instead of popping back up the motors actually just pushed the boat straight down under the surface. It would have happened so fast that they didn’t even have time to reach the radio that was only feet away from at least 3-5 people. It would have went under and in the process ripped in half where the boat was stressed and floated to the bottom in 2 pieces. A few models showed if a wave collapsed a hatch cover but I’m pretty sure that was rebuffed. Unfortunately the only thing that seemed to make sense was that it ripped itself in half and that’s how the deck chain broke.

[@MC_HANDROLLED]

The story mentioned the chain actually, but so offhandedly there’s no significance to it

[@ryanlevier7174]

This video was a fair attempt, but not a great one at telling the story of the Edmund Fitzgerald.

[@user-73a]

Learn how to use punctuation and spacing, This looks like a giant info dump of opinion crap.

[@vdog4799]

Sounds right. That would explain the no radio call. He kept expecting the nose to pop up because it been doing that already. Makes sense to me

[@MH-wl2nh]

It couldn’t have snapped in half on the surface. The aft section would have kept on going and wouldn’t be so close to the bow underwater. Look what happened to the Daniel j morrell. Please do your research next time before making a comment this dumb.