Why Does Celeste Feel So Good to Play?

[@GMTK]

Like this video, and wish you could actually try out different movement mechanics? I've made an interactive video essay, called Platformer Toolkit, where you all full control over a character's jump height, move speed, coyote time, and more. Check it out - kzbin.info/www/bejne/sIjMYZ2dnM16mas Also, a quick note that Matt Thorson now goes by Maddy Thorson. I’ve updated the description, but unfortunately can’t change the video itself. More info can be found here: maddythorson.medium.com/is-madeline-canonically-trans-4277ece02e40

[@reedg6836]

Came here just to comment that, great job keeping up on updating quickly!

[@alranican]

Wow. Huge props for adding that little update. Didn’t expect to see one this quick, or at all if I’m being honest.

[@beesree39]

oh my gosh this proves you're an amazing content creator. most people wouldn't look back

[@leahbeah1585]

Thank you for doing that! Real happy for them.

[@semidecent4395]

Wow that’s a really considerate addition to this video! Not only showing support for the lgbtq+ community, but also taking the time to update old information. That’s not pandering, that’s showing genuine care

[@junkeyz]

Fun fact: Madeline's hair uses procedural animation, meaning it's animated via code as the player moves, hence why it's so smooth

[@lucasgill7819]

Yeah, you can actually see part of the code for the hair in 1:03

[@54114142]

I was just wondering how they did it. Thanks!

[@rootwayder77]

procedural animations are always cool.

I tried recreating it, I wasn't able to unfortunately

[@tygutowski]

@ i managed to make a really shitty version, im sure if i cared more and took more time i could make it better

[@LucianoThePig]

Celeste is maybe the most fair game I've ever played. You die after one hit, and you die frequently, but you respawn almost instantly, there's no harsh plenary to dying and checkpoints are frequent.

[@gimmedataids]

The instant respawn is HUGE. Its an absolute must for a hard platformer like this

[@insaincaldo]

Also the assist mode which there is also a video about here.

[@MindinViolet]

It is very challenging, but always fun and never frustrating, which is a remarkable achievement.

[@raspberry_picker395]

except when that pragmatic part of madeline chases you. theres like 4-5 rooms without a checkpoint and 2 difficult jumps at the end with everything else being super easy, that was so damn frustrating for me because you need to spend extra 20 secs to get to the hard part and practice it so its like 25 seconds always + when you nail the first one theres the second one and its just so annoying. source: finished chapter 2 today

[@cirnocard5710]

@@raspberry_picker395 Don't worry, you'll only get better. Trust me, after you beat the game, replay the earlier chapters and it'll be much easier

[@ajavisk]

I have never once felt angry while dying in Celeste. The respawn time being super fast + the music not stopping when you die. Dying in Super Mario Maker makes me angry because of that stupid "oh no", the music stopping completely, and the sound effect for death all make it frustring. In Celeste you don't even feel like you died

[@niesmiayhipopotam692]

Right? Like there's so much room for trying and learning!

[@mitchellepstein9956]

I have but not at the game. The game is fine I’m angry at myself

[@otame4771]

It's like Geometry Dash except that Geometry Dash restarts the music and you had to start all the way from the beginning unless you turned on checkpoints I got tired of GD but never once for Celeste...

[@bait5257]

Yup

[@thecupcakehey1608]

I get angry, but only when I die from joy-con drift (which happens much more than you might think)

[@bradykoba5457]

“Why does Celeste feel so good to play?” Me on 1.8k deaths on chapter 9 slowly contemplating the reason of why life exists and if it’s all worth ir

[@tonuka6257]

You got it?

[@bradykoba5457]

@@tonuka6257 I did beat it eventually after like 12 hours of playtime

[@VictorLHouette]

That one level probably doubled my play time of the whole game!! I frequently go back and replay the first 7 levels whenever I get bored or have a few minutes to kill, but I'm not sure I can put myself through chapter 9 again...

[@plexquared1877]

me with 7557 deaths on chapter 9 ready to attempt the moon strawberry

[@kierankavanagh5876]

@@plexquared1877 if you haven’t already I wish you good luck sir, I attempted moonberry right after I beat it, the room competed with summit c side in difficulty

[@pong5734]

"I pulled apart the games's code" *shows exclusively the hair physics*

[@orisimo]

I think the speed/time graphs are actually incorrect. Those slopes should be straight - who on Earth applies differential acceleration?

[@alvinbontuyan8083]

@@orisimo That is a graph of velocity not acceleration

[@alexsiemers7898]

@@alvinbontuyan8083 but if the acceleration is constant, the slope of the velocity should be a straight line

[@alvinbontuyan8083]

@@alexsiemers7898 yea thats true. Maybe acceleration isnt constant idk

[@getaround1276]

he only showed the important stuff

[@GameScoreFanfare]

Mark, I honestly think this is one of the best videos you've made to date. You've approached the topic from every angle and yet kept it so tight and flowing beautifully. Your graphics are on point as always, only ever bringing clarity to what you say. Particularly in the section about jumps with the graphs and examples underneath, and the outlines showing the height of the jump. And also I have been really appreciating the amount of effort you're putting into your audio design recently, but you totally upped the ante in this vid. The low-pass filter on the music when you transition to the interview so you can hear it better, the little in-key piano notes that accentuate your titles, how you use the end of chapter jingle at the end of a section before moving onto a new point. Honestly it's just superb work, you're an absolute inspiration and a boon for the entire video essay community. Thank you for putting in the amount of effort you do.

[@GMTK]

Oh Mathew, you're a charmer ;) Thank you!

[@duchi882]

You two are breathtaking

[@future3k832]

@@GMTK I'm inclined to agree, that was one of the best videos on youtube I've watched in a long time and the 17 min hardly lasted.

[@ntt996]

Duchi YOU are breathtaking

[@Hepyrian]

Damn Mat you beat me to making this comment!

[@Platitudinous9000]

The empty room thing is critical! It's like how Mario 64 was designed with fun and expressive 3D movement first and its iconic worlds afterward.

[@variousthings6470]

One of Halo's developers (Jaime Greisemer, I think?) has told the story of how they spent a long time playing around with the Warthog jeep in empty environments, to make sure they got the feel of the turning rate and the fishtail steering as satisfying as possible. He also said that he kept doing this even after it was finalised, to make sure he reinforced to himself the feeling of something they'd been successful in making "fun". This was so that he could tell if they made a change that somehow affected the feel and broke it, making it less fun (e.g. going from one game to its sequel). He's also talked about how they applied that process to other elements, like the number of frames of delay between a controller trigger press and the sniper rifle gunshot animation.

[@TheSami12345677]

A true hidden gem

[@clashcastle1078]

Currently working on a platformer character controller and I'll definitely cherish this point

[@NicholasLaRosa0496]

In both 64 and Sunshine, it was so fun just doing backflips and jumping.

[@KairuHakubi]

maybe it's because I played Sunshine first, but 64 did NOT feel fun to me haha

[@Angelic234]

One of the best things in Celeste is that every death feels like your fault. The game is so responsive that it's hard to blame the controls or the level design

[@bait5257]

Yeah I hardly even found 1 death where it's game's fault

[@connorconnor2421]

You poor, innocent soul. You've never heard of controller drift.

[@sunnyp6982]

have you played chapter twos b-side

[@DerpyPotato-cf8qh]

Unless your playing with controller drift.

[@misterlion4700]

@@DerpyPotato-cf8qh but that's not the game's or controls' problem, that's the controller

[@homemadefilms5718]

One of my favorite moments was on the last level of farewell, where the game literally checks in on you and basically says “Are you ok?” It was very encouraging

[@scoutscode1122]

Yes 100%! I was so annoyed at myself but it all vanished after that

[@theiaraine]

that's what made me finish the level

[@PushedToInsanity]

Quality video. Especially with the clips from the developers

[@equation1321]

Ayo

[@lapotajunior5072]

Your name just shows that you played farewell

[@NoodleIncidental]

When comparing Madeline's jump height and curve to Meat Boy's and Mario's, I think it's better to think of her jump as half of her aerial mobility, with the dash being the other half. The jump arcs for Mario and Meat Boy are higher because that's the only tool they have to gain height and/or cover distance, and they work just as well for their respective games.

[@TheOriginalDogLP]

Mario has depending of the powerup and the game he is in a lot more tools for aerial movement. I think if you're talking about basic player movements like running and jumping it makes sense to leave out dash/double-jump/wall-jump etc. for a bit.

[@tonuka6257]

Yeah, Super Meat Boy was a creative game and still one of my favourite jumpnrunners ever, but it was also a traditional game. Sprinting was a mechanic every game had back then, even though they didn't always need to. Super meat boy would have you sprint nearly 24/7 anyways. Celeste took that and replaced with a more versatile mechanic, the dash, which you're forced to manage much more closely than the sprint.

[@randomguyontheinternet7940]

@@TheOriginalDogLP Those are expansions much like the double jump Celeste achieves later on.

[@Aztonio]

At this point it was more about the feelings from the character itself, like not too realitic nor too unintuitive.

[@levis569]

They are also different characters that are meant to "feel" a certain way

[@fakeronjan]

What a masterpiece of a video about a masterpiece of a game. I love deconstructions like this. I'll never forget the final climb in Celeste. The final few checkpoints when your heart is pounding and you're almost there - no game in years has made me feel that way.

[@jacobdelgado3031]

There are games you sometimes play that leave you with a bittersweet feeling. Sad to complete, but happy to have had the opportunity to play and beat it; a feeling of what-do-I-do-now after you've completed them that is almost empty. Celeste and BotW were both of those games for me in recent years. The mood, atmosphere, music, controls, frustration at times and ending moments are something I wish I could have back because no amount of replays will ever do that for me again. And I'm very thankful for both of them.

[@jacobdelgado3031]

FuzzzWuzzz so the game is difficult, but it’s manageable. The levels are broken into smaller sections (think of Zelda 1) where I’d you die you only go back a little bit. You also have infinite lives. I suck at games and was able to complete it. It’s not really rogue like at all. I played this almost non stop when I got it.

[@electrum5579]

@@FluffyBunniesOnFire I played Celeste after completing the Path of Pain twice (once on PC, another time around a year later on Switch), the only times Celeste felt close to the grindy, drawn-out feeling that the final room of PoP had (this feeling only applied to the first time) were on the final rooms of the Summit and Core C-sides, and even then they didn't feel _that_ close because I had already gotten gud through Path of Pain as well as all of Celeste

[@isisyanqi]

@@jacobdelgado3031 what is botw?

[@alanmatkovic3221]

Isis Ng Black Odeus: Wings of Time

[@SeniorLuther]

I have never played a game that felt so satisfying and rewarding. I didn't even feel discouraged after dying. It respawns so fast that all you can do is take note of your mistakes and adjust. Once you finally get past a difficult section it's hard not to smile and feel good.

[@desuordie4856]

Yeah it takes a huge number of failures for me to get frustrated in celeste

[@lapotajunior5072]

I can just see that you didn't play farewell

[@DarkD33p]

Yes. I was about to write the same.

[@zigzagas1000]

yo. Is it only me who is almost brought to tears every time the chapter ends and the music starts with a nice story picture? Honestly, its the music that is the most powerful at that moment.

[@elliebingo]

definitely not just you, the art is beautiful and the music feels so relaxing and welcoming. Like a hug "you did it, you beat the level. You won"

[@purevessle2641]

Especially at the summit and in farewell

[@arvindhmani06]

And the story is perhaps the most heart-rending ones in any game I've played. More so when you realize Madeline is a representation of the inner demons Matt himself was facing.

[@lapotajunior5072]

If this brings you to tears good luck with farewell

[@alifaan595]

not at all, it's incredibly beautiful and so moving. it's amazing

[@dawsonglawe5810]

Biggest flex in video games was when that bird freezes time as you're about to fall to your death just to say "Oh yeah by the way, you can do this."

[@dylanr4854]

Why 1 reply

[@miaucat815]

Wait 2 Replys

[@monke1295]

Why 4 replies?

[@lennylenny5871]

Why 5 replies?

[@connorconnor2421]

Why 6 replies?

[@Shlooomth]

I found Celeste to be a surprisingly emotionally deep game. I saw a lot of mechanics as metaphors that complimented the game's story themes. I thoroughly love this game.

[@PrincessFelicie]

Celeste is a masterpiece of ludonarrative harmony. There is no game that made me feel something as abstract as perseverance as much as Celeste. That doesn't mean there isn't games I have persevered through before, but this is one where it truly felt like something tangible, like it was the *point,* the _lesson the game was trying to teach me._

[@LawalMuhammad]

@@PrincessFelicie Ludonarrative (noun): The intersection in a video game of ludic (gameplay) elements and narrative elements. The two circles (gameplay and narrative) on the Venn diagram just sit right on top of each other.

[@Exsulator2]

Please explain the metaphors, I haven't played it but really want to know what you thought

[@summerycast7936]

Not Straight Very Gay Catgirl I agree! Celeste is excellent at what it sets out to do! In contrast, it is similar to "Getting Over It", but god GOI is a far more frustrating game to master. And the message is shoved into you each time you fail.

[@LawalMuhammad]

@@Exsulator2 without giving spoilers, you the player struggle with repeated attempts to progress through levels, whilst mirroring the same struggle that Celeste goes through on the mountain. You the player go on the same journey as Celeste. struggle > self-doubt > persistence > determination > ?

[@DarylTalksGames]

About time we got a proper GMTK on Celeste, such a spectacular game and the video is tremendously done as always :)

[@fungalcactus8286]

There's also an episode on the assist mode.

[@Zodiacman16]

I just want to point out at 5:15 when mentioning how the game was coded, this does not mean that Unity, GameMaker, or similar game engines can't achieve this. You can simply hard code your player's movement to get the precision you need and avoid the built-in features the engine provides to you. I'm sure Mark didn't mean to imply this, but it's worth pointing out in case it gets taken the wrong way. Please don't watch this section and think you NEED to use XNA to make a good platformer, that's straight up false.

[@dashiefiles]

I use GameMaker and I don’t think anybody actually uses the built in physics

[@marc.lepage]

This is correct, you can avoid using the built-in physics in just about any of the engines.

[@akj7]

The problem is, this leads the devs to be reliant on the game engines they are using. So now instead of finding creative, new or peculiar ways to write your games, the devs use what is already provided to them.

[@pog1635]

@@akj7 I think what he is saying is that you can still use game engines to have platformers, not that you should always use game engines built in physics

[@elektra81516]

I like XNA/Monogame like frameworks because it gives you complete control over everything, even down to camera Matrixes. It just provides some OpenGL wrappers in C# to make it easier to draw sprites and set up the window, rest of it is entirely down to you.

[@bucketofcalzones457]

Dying feels good in Celeste which could be its own video. On maps with moving parts, the map is almost always timed so that with every respawn you don’t need to wait to try your next attempt. It’s almost always best to get started immediately, keeping you engaged. The game says to be proud of your deaths, and making death feel like it’s helping you by showing the timing really pushes that philosophy.

[@SwainixFPV]

I've had one screen in chap 9 with like 250 deaths, where I had to wait each time and that was annoying, but it's also the only occurence I can think of until now (halfway through chap 9 I think), closing in on 6k deaths lol (my bad for skipping accidentally skipping the barrier of chap 9 tho)

[@Ani]

I've just finished the A side of the first 7 chapters and instantly came back to re-watch this video with more context - and I'm enjoying seeing some half-formed thoughts I had while playing the game being so elegantly put by Mark. Great video! :D

[@GMTK]

Exhaustively researched, professionally edited videos like this, appearing in your sub box every other week, is something that’s only possible thanks to the generosity of my Patreon backers. Consider supporting the show at www.patreon.com/GameMakersToolkit In return, supporters get early access to new episodes, behind the scenes content, editing tutorials, video recommendations, full interview videos, written articles, Discord access, and more!

[@smithberns7862]

love it keep it up

[@pieterpauwels548]

I've been a patreon for a decent while now and I haven't regretted it a bit. your video's are always on point and it's always nice to see you checking in with your fans on the discord. the occasinal extra content like editing tutotrials, reading lists, playlists and interviews don't hurt either.

[@Luramare]

My only complaint was the lack of acknowledgement towards dynamic jump height, e.i shorter press = shorter jump. Getting this right really separates the good platformers from the best.

[@k38-w4x]

Thank you for doing what you do! It has really helped me, even as a generic software developer, when looking at how my software interacts with users and to think about their experiences with it on more than a "Does it work?" level. Look forward to your future work!

[@ownerbynight5980]

Excellent video Mark, it reminded me of the exhaustive list of advanced movement techniques in Super Smash bros. Melee. There are not many videos examining the exceptional movement in that game - it'd be a real pleasure to see you take a stab at that.

[@StopChangingUsernamesYouTube]

I've called many platformers' mechanics "(un)forgiving", but Celeste's bonk/jump mechanics are just plain considerate.

[@joychapman9228]

But the wind stuff SUCKS.

[@PlayerN101]

@@joychapman9228 Very

[@PriorityFire]

Right?? Like the levels are hard, but it's still so obvious that the developers really want you to succeed. And this is expressed not only via the character dialogue, but via the mechanics themselves. I appreciate the devs so much.

[@PlayerN101]

@@PriorityFire They don't even judge you for using assist mode

[@godofdeath8785]

@@PriorityFire yeah devs amazing like and their wonderful game Celeste💙

[@mathiasjensen2841]

I remember reading about Cyote time in Ralph Kosters "Theory of Fun", and that book is from 2003, so the term has been around a while :)

[@MisterAppleEsq]

+

[@ethankennan212]

I also heard that term in one of Snoman Gaming’s videos.

[@insaincaldo]

No idea when it was adopted into game talk, but yah it's been around.

[@CERTAIND00M]

I first read it in GamePro, circa 1997. So we're narrowing it down...

[@JeroenZM]

I believe the DKC trilogy had similar airtime

[@KaidaMizu]

I'm usually not keen on challenging puzzle platformers that rely on finessing a character but Celeste is an exception. I think the biggest reason is you aren't really punished for dying, you get put back to the start of the room and that's fine. There's no lives that you eventually lose and have to restart the chapter and you respawn almost instantly. It always felt like just as I was about to give up I'd see myself improve just a bit and it filled me with confidence. Also I love that they offered so much accessibility my mum has arthritis and bad eye sight but loves games so it's awesome when they offer ways to customise the game to make it playable for everyone.

[@stellanovaluna]

Assist mode was a stroke of genius.

[@Maxler5795]

fun fact: madelines hair actually turns light blue, which in Spanish is "celeste".

[@niesmiayhipopotam692]

ooohhh

[@stellanovaluna]

Me who is learning Spanish: ¡Azul, cian, y azul claro! EDIT: Just learned Celeste is indeed light blue in Spanish I’m dumb lol

[@stellanovaluna]

Lol nvm that’s another word for light blue in Spanish I’m dumb 😂

[@Zack-bl2gg]

Actually Celeste means heavenly in Spanish, not light blue. Edit: I am stupid. Celeste is heavenly in latin not spanish. I took more latin than Spanish haha

[@stellanovaluna]

@@Zack-bl2gg I’m learning Spanish, and it does indeed mean “light blue”

[@kobunnight]

Liked for mentioning input buffering.

[@dddmemaybe]

Just don't buffer air control usually lol! It will easily defeat the point and make it incredibly frustrating and confusing to boot.

[@benjaminshields9421]

And then theres nintendo. They went from none in melee to having too wide a buffer in ult

[@Triffyrose]

Finally, even more content from Mark. That editing though, it's great. Especially that Celeste screen transition.

[@Megacooltommydee]

Nice profile!

[@Triffyrose]

@@Megacooltommydee Hey, thanks!

[@Sir_Duckyweather]

I've always wondered if Mark does the editing himself or if he commissions others for that. I know some channels are "one man shows," but typically those are unable to upload content very often. Big channels, especially ones that upload more than once a month and with high quality editing, often pay others to do editing, research, or anything else that might save some time. There's nothing in the video description to credit any commission work, but they aren't always under obligation to list them either, so it could go either way.

[@KyleJMitchell]

@@Sir_Duckyweather I've been surprised by how well-done GMTK videos are, but somehow I'm much less surprised when I found out that Mark was previously a gaming journalist. He very well might contract out some parts of the process, but I'd bet that he doesn't need to. He had already developed an eye for good messages *and* how to deliver them with as little friction as possible before starting the channel. That's the kind of skill that good journalists hone; they have to learn to be nonfiction storytellers.

[@Sir_Duckyweather]

For anyone curious, I've been told by Mark himself in another comment section that he does indeed do his own video editing. Most impressive if I do say so myself! kzbin.info/www/bejne/hJvIhqt-pamNf9k&lc=UgxR1bm7hIBaTvzktqx4AaABAg

[@thomashart22]

When I die in Celeste I'm frustrrated with myself, not the game. It never felt like the game cheated me. All of my deaths felt like they were my own fault. This video gracefully explains why that is.

[@StrabbyStrabby]

Knowing that yes, the jump presses are buffered if you miss the command by a few seconds, feels so good. Often in meatboy, or even Hollow Knight in some cases, I'll feel like I've definitely hit the ground, press a, then beeline into a pit of spikes. There's a certain few frames of meatboy's landing sprite that really make it seem like he has already landed, and it bugs me a bit. The devs really did think of everything!

[@gibson7392]

I can't believe you put all this work into one video. This is why I look forward to everything you put out. Very well done, taught me a lot about the nature of designing 2D platformers.

[@TheSektorz]

There's something awesome about seeing such young game designers. To be fair though, a lot of great games were made by young people, it just isn't obvious. A game I researched recently is The Adventures of Batman and Robin on the SEGA Genesis from 1994 - a technically impressive, awesome game. Turns out, alot of the people involved were in their early 20's, and did such an incredible job making a game the difficult way - in assembly. So yeah, it's fascinating, some people excel fast. I'm in my LATE 20's and will be releasing a game which [I think] is fun, but one thing new game devs like me could really use is guidance with marketing and distributing a game properly so it reaches people. If you can focus an episode on that, maybe interview a few publishers, that'd be great.

[@apullcan]

what I love about these dudes is that they seem to really understand what makes a fun game. especially during the bit when they talk about when you jump before hitting the ground, it becomes clear that they're huge fans of platformers.

[@Stroggoii]

Check out Fightin' Rage. It's the best Beat 'Em Up since 1994 and it was done by one kid from Uruguay. And like you say, it's one flaw is almost nobody knows it exists.

[@LeonserGT]

You do watch GDC lectures as well, right? There was quite a few great talks regarding that topic.

[@SamGarcia]

check out Tim Ruswick here on KZbin for game marketing stuff.

[@jacio9]

If you go on Matt's website, you can see that they've been developing games for 15 years, which is crazy An Untitled Story was my first game of theirs, and it's honestly a super impressive metroidvania for someone that young to have made alone

[@bennieblanks5129]

Celeste's precision controls and puzzle-esque level design result in what is arguably the finest platformer ever developed. If you haven't played it, you owe it to yourself to do so. It really is that good.

[@TheGauges420]

Absolutely. I bought it on my Ps4 first, then just had to own it on Switch and now I want it on PC as well. Love it so much.

[@stephenahern]

Still waiting for my limited run switch edition to ship, lol.

[@MystFox1314]

I want it

[@jakubmadron7776]

Not only this but the story, atmosphere, music, characters and philosophy. This game is great on so many levels.

[@sabbyblue]

After beating every level at least 3 times (painfully so) I can agree.

[@unr4g3ux37]

One passage I loved is the part where uh... spoiler alert. The part where you reconcile with Badeline, and you unlock double dash. The area you are in at the time as no dangers, no obstacles, is large with a lot of space, a recompense after the tough part. You are extremely free of your movement and its amazingly satisfying to just... play with Madeline.

[@masela01]

madeline reconciles with badeline and together they become a double-dashed chadeline

[@theiaraine]

@@masela01 poetic

[@masela01]

@@theiaraine mmmmedlyne

[@waytoobiased]

something something trans allegory

[@codinginflow]

I have to try out Celeste

[@wit2817]

try it right now, this moment.

[@exigency2231]

Right now. I adore this game, play it.

[@ps2752]

its 8 dollars rn on steam sale get it

[@Alex-fu3mi]

it’s only 5 bucks on the Nintendo eshop right now!

[@harishrahman9094]

@@ps2752 8$is a lot for a shit game like this

[@Blackthornprod]

Fantastic episode Mark :) ! And so well put together, there's such a great feel/juice about them ;D And yeah, really looking foward to the game jam this week end !

[@florianplack0913]

Thanks for the reminder! I don't wanna miss your video 😉

[@muhamedgalal3093]

I am also in the jam NOA

[@stellanovaluna]

Love the piano riff from Celeste and the timing with the music in the background (also from Celeste)

[@pizzacookie9382]

Can you please do a hollow knight video explaining how to make such a good atmosphere ? everything in the game from the controls to the music to visuals works together in such an elegant way to produce the fallen kingdom of hallownest , I would love if you could talk about how it is really done !

[@ministahh]

This would be the Holy Grail of videos

[@enderspirit5238]

Higher beings, these words are for you alone. Yes please

[@silkworm2595]

Atmosphere is really hard to talk about. It's a necessarily personal feeling and I feel the conversation it would spark would be more interesting than the video itself. Is that a bad thing? Anyway for whatever it's worth I think good atmosphere comes from a combination of mystery and reason to care about that mystery. This creates an overall, general intrigue for the world in the player as they explore. The ways you interact with/discover parts of the world should be believable and natural too. Not just barely related text on loading screens. Give some tangible initiative to the player and bring out their willing to learn.

[@Atypical-Abbie]

One could do 10 videos on the game!

[@miinintapple]

just wait, boss-keys got us covered.

[@GetDaved]

Really important thing to note about Madeline's jump in Celeste: when falling she has an incredibly low terminal velocity and an incredibly high acceleration (several times greater than what normal gravity would be), which is roughly analogous to the curve she has for horizontal movement on the ground. At most distances this works out to a decent approximation of reality despite very different physics rules, but in terms of game control it gives the player a more consistent feel since she tends to stay at known velocities. One other coding note: In an engine like Unity if you use a Character Controller rather than a RigidBody for your main character then you basically will be set up to code exactly the same way they were for Celeste. Character Controllers need the Physics manually applied to you get that laser-tight control just like Matt an Noel had.

[@connorconnor2421]

You can also hold down to spaghettify Madeline

[@stellanovaluna]

@ConnerConner lol I laughed the first time I did this, and I always appreciate a good astronomy reference

[@stellanovaluna]

Thx dude! Very helpful!

[@GetDaved]

@@connorconnor2421 Yep, and that bumps up her terminal velocity a little bit.

[@mathieu3318]

pretty sure madelaine is a dude

[@Komeii]

Just reached the top of the mountain and completed first 7 chapters. 10 hours and 2400 deaths. loved every second of it

[@brutusmagnuson315]

The reason coyote time feels so intuitive is that if you’re judging from surface to surface in real life, you kick off the ledge, as opposed to stopping at the edge and hopping. As someone who’s done parkour, it makes sense to me.

[@uno23sleep]

Shoutout to N+! I used to play that game and I always felt that it never got its spotlight!👍

[@FBracht]

N++ is by far the best value proposition on Switch. Although it isn't *better* than the likes of Celeste or Hollow Knight, it's still an incredible game and almost infinite for such a low price. Highly recommended. I bought it like a year ago and every once in a while I "remember" about it, and there's always new stages to beat.

[@FBracht]

@@CeleryMan666 Wow. Just wow.

[@candyman851]

@@CeleryMan666 I won't criticize your opinion on the game, but bringing up the developer's level of professional education is just asinine. You can make a good game with pretty basic programming experience nowadays with all the feature-rich IDEs out there, so whether they got a BS in Comp. Sci. or self-taught themselves or whatever is pretty much irrelevant. Besides that, the game wouldn't have such tight controls without someone proficient at software development. The physics feel great, the movement is on point, the buffer that Mark explained is well implemented without feeling intrusive, and all that without a sign of bugginess.

[@Jako3334074]

Someone who actually has a CS education would know that it's fine to have messy code if maintainability and readability are not as important as getting it done quickly, when say, it's a video game meant to be developed in a year or so by only a couple developers, which doesn't need to be maintained for a decade. (besides, none of this matters to the player) That sort of deal is pretty common when making video games, the other end of the spectrum is the people who never finish their project because they're too busy optimizing and refactoring instead of finishing their thing. Can always do refactoring later, if you really need to. as for the rest more levels - quality over quantity runs better - non-factor unless your computer is from a decade ago more skill involved - N series only has running and jumping (no dash, infinite walljumping is kind of like climbing); besides that, even with things like fall damage, multiple different enemy types, N is still the (relatively) easier game, in my opinion. Level design is more like that of standard platformers, usually isn't spike covered walls everywhere. Physics are also more forgiving imo. 8 bit platformer - N is just a shitty flash game why should i play it /s note: I think both are pretty good games other note: Actual discussions can be had if you don't fling shit for no reason

[@TheMrFarmerJoe9]

@@CeleryMan666 "intelligent discussion". lol okay 😂

[@Allen2142]

Love the dev interview! Really good addition to your own insights for the video. I hope more devs respond in a like fashion! Also, you get a "best voice" award.

[@IrfanArif18]

I love the melodic transitions at 4:24 and 9:24. And also the simple piano melody sound effects for the popping texts at 5:16 and 7:45. They blend really well with the Celeste OST used for the background music. Brilliant!

[@artemis1123]

I just love how much personality they could fit in this tiny little sprite. She bounces when she hits the ground, her her moves realistically, her run looks surprisingly well animated. It’s beautiful

[@itisbeam]

I am SO excited for Earthblade, I have a lot of faith in these devs

[@ExtraAmpersand]

I will be forever grateful to the Celeste developers for the accessibility mode; with my disability I thought the tight, demanding controls would be too much for me. I didn't unlock all of the hard modes and b-sides but I was really happy that I got to experience such a wonderful game.

[@ZMashXA]

Celeste is a true masterpiece, nothing more to say

[@HeyJesseJ]

Those first music notes at the beginning....only 2 seconds into the video, and it feels like home. Thank you. 👏🏼

[@DrJurdenPeterbergsteinlerwitz]

As an (VERY) amateur game developer (if you can even call me that) I am happy to see I have created similar player-friendly mechanics, such as the movement, hit-boxes and I actually did the exact same thing with the spike traps and their hitboxes. Glad to see the more experienced does the same. For example (Thanks to Shaun Spalding) I added a brief moment where the player can jump if you step off an edge, as it makes the game 'feel' more fair to the player. I always use these types of games (Celeste/Indie games) as a huge inspiration, because it is really an effort to fully complete a game and release it. Hats off to that. EDIT: Oh! Also, amazing video as always!

[@krankymann]

the music you are playing the background of this video i could just listen to forever, it's the thing that hooked me. The sound design in general really adds to the game. That and the single screen nature of most of the levels gave it that just one more go feeling that's essential.

[@elllieeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee]

Lena Raine's music is so good

[@stellanovaluna]

@Danny IKR?!

[@tj-co9go]

very good soundtrack. rarely in games is therr something as good. Skyrim soundtrack, and also Oblivion and Morrowind are. Some Minecraft songs too, the oldest peaceful pianopieces in Minecraft Alpha by C418 are the best

[@ThibautGiordano]

1:12 Run 3:35 Jump 6:30 Climb 7:03 Dash 8:44 Feedbacks

[@billmalcolm4291]

Fun fact: This is the very first time I've ever had a mental picture of what a KZbinr looks like that matches fairly close to what they actually look like. Hey there, handsome!

[@horntx]

am I blind? the only faces I saw in this were the faces of the game devs.

[@TheEliteJohan]

@@horntx 16:45

[@howtokillapig]

He looks EXACTLY how I pictured and you’re right they never do!

[@breefeez]

Content like this astounds me. I'm so thankful for the effort and quality that makes it feel worth the watch. Great job man.

[@darobi]

Great video! 9:47 "Coyote time" is also a mechanic in the Donkey Kong Country series of games too. You can actually use the forward rolling attack and then a jump for maximum speed and distance.

[@PrincessFelicie]

I have spoken at length to friends about how damn hard yet somehow forgiving Celeste is. I'm so glad you have used the exact same words. The hitboxes, jump timings, potential routes, everything is skewed heavily in the player's favor, and yet the game manages to be extremely difficult despite that - all the difficulty is integrally in the level design. Sometimes playing Celeste can feel closer to perfectly memorizing thn playing a piano melody than to going through a platformer, and that just works beautifully with the art and music design, as well as the narrative theme of perseverance.

[@DrCaesarMD]

When I bought and played Celeste in Janurary, it basically instantly become one of my favorite games of all time. Not only did I enjoy and relate to the narrative about Madeline's anxiety, but the gameplay was so refined and sharp, and the game is chock full of content. It is in my opinion, an example of an ideal game that all other games should strive to be like in terms of quality.

[@smactork]

I'VE BEEN WAITING FOR THIS VIDEO!! Excellent stuff, Mark.

[@hipsnowsis7374]

thanks for this video. I watched 10 seconds, thought the tutorial looked perfect, and then played the game to the summit and came back. can't wait to watch it now

[@gabrielprates1691]

This video was incredibly well done. Content, form, everything. Thanks for that, I'm glad I can still find this videos of this level of quality on KZbin.

[@pallingtontheshrike6374]

3:00 "Madeline is slow" **laughing in TASBOT**

[@maxwellh.4569]

Ikr

[@beepboprobotsnot3748]

It's very interesting how even though the game is intentionally difficult, it still gives you extra help (like Coyote Time).

[@clink3582]

9:00 another thing that makes it feel so good is the hd rumble on if you're playing on Switch. One time i turned my rumble off and i felt like my controller wasn't working

[@jay-tbl]

Seconded, I felt the rumble was a little too much and I had to turn it down in the settings, but I really likes being able to feel surfaces in the game by feeling the rumbling of the controllers

[@goat6354]

Feels great on all types of controllers

[@Witchy_Hoo]

@@jay-tbl I agree! I like the rumbling effect, but I had to turn it down to 50% because 100% was a bit too much for me.

[@daylinhesford3116]

As much as I like the rumble. If you have it on 100% for over and hour you start to feel numb and can't move your fingers

[@hinakremec]

I’m still amazed how a bunch of indie devs achieved to create one of the most loved and speedran game, alongside to masterpieces like minecraft and super mario 64.

[@Julia-lg8dt]

I bought the game solely because of this channel and I don't regret it one bit

[@jacobshirley3457]

I got the game during a free week on the Epic Games Store, and played it solely because of this channel. Same.

[@Brawph]

This is awesome, shared to a friend that's working on a platformer with Celeste as a key point of inspiration! (Also I think Coyote time is an old term since my former professor used to talk about it and he worked on things as far back as Eternal Darkness. I remember him saying it was a major Feature of some Crash Bandicoot games so maybe there's some origin there?)

[@QXDme]

The best (or maybe just most extreme) example I'm aware of is in the Maximo games. In those it plays an animation after you go over the edge, but you can still jump at ANY point after that. Not only that, but the optimal jump time is after the animation plays, so maximising jumps becomes about timing rather than about trying to guess how well the collision geometry matches the visual geometry.

[@Brawph]

@@QXDme Well in that case it just sounds like an air jump like Super Smash Bros. just allowing you to jump any time you're in the air -- rather than coyote time which is more about being an extra timing allowance for late button presses. If it works forever then it's not just a game that allows jumps in midair, isn't it?

[@QXDme]

@@Brawph Yeah, I think it's like smash bros (I'm not familiar enough to remember exactly how that works off the top of my head). But I think the main difference is that Maximo is actually a platform game where you are often trying to maximise jump length, they've just shifted the optimal jump time from before you reach the edge to after. It may not technically count as Coyote time, but it serves the same purpose. And I personally prefer the Maximo (or Smash if you like) option of having the cue a specific amount of time before the optimal jump time, rather than having some extra leeway but still having to judge where the platform edge is by sight.

[@Brawph]

@@QXDme Yeah that makes sense! Seems like a cool system, hopefully the difficulty doesn't get too out of hand on how long you have to wait to jump!

[@godofdeath8785]

@@Brawph oh and what name of this platformer? I so much would have same fair, challenge and fun game like Celeste

[@SnaggletoothOriginal]

Finally we get to see a Celeste video fully in-depth! I love Celeste one of my favorites!

[@jrm3170]

Only issue I had with Celeste is that, when dashing diagonally, I'll sometimes end up going straight up or to the side instead. Felt like the area the control stick had to be pointing to count as a diagonal dash was too slim.

[@Megacooltommydee]

I think that has more to do with the controller itself than the game. I've had countless deaths attributed to my Joy-Con's tiny sticks being ever so slightly off where it's supposed to be.

[@CandorZofain]

I haven't confirmed this, but many platformers have a larger area for diagonals than cardinal directions. I know for me, the Switch Pro controller has plenty of ghost inputs which screw up my gameplay.

[@summerycast7936]

I had the same issues, especially when you have to chain multiple diagonal dashes. Thank god there are no lives in this game, and the time it takes to restart a stage is not only smooth but quick too.

[@buttonasas]

The feathers are really hard on keyboard, though. I feel like never touching those feathers agsin after completing a bunch of stuff :D

[@thehiddenninja3428]

Meanwhile, I'm here playing Celeste on a laptop with arrow keys. It's sweet. And then I complete the game and see Variants to allow for 360 degree dashing, and I'm dissappointed that I'm limited by the very same arrow keys.

[@smosa605]

the single greatest and smoothest commentary/review of any game possible... the explanation was on point

[@hughlingard]

celeste is the most challenging game i've ever played, and it's helped me to realize that no matter how difficult, daunting, or complex a goal may be, with enough practice and determination, nothing is impossible.

[@ashenkster69]

There was an interview with a developer from the makers of Dead Cells and they called Coyote Time mechanic a "Just in Time" jump. This was coined from Castlevania's developer when he was playing their game at the time. It also refers to other systems in the game that make it more forgiving to complete actions like making a long jump or running over uneven terrain.

[@duchi882]

*I'm a simple man* If Game Maker's Toolkit praises a game I'm playing it

[@rickybloss8537]

Celeste is the best platformer I've ever played definitely give it a shot

[@ty_sylicus]

I played Snakebird due to this.

[@matheuscastello6554]

Ty Sylicus me too, and snakebird is one of the best puzzlers ive ever played, so im definitely giving celeste a shot too haha

[@leobuoye2615]

Celeste was a great playthrough. Can't recommend it enough

[@kontrol42]

It has some of the best tracks that I've ever heard in video games.

[@squeakerboodle]

It feels so weird going to back in time to before Maddy’s transition

[@NoNameX_X0]

Man the music is honestly one of the best in Celeste. it's just so beautiful! The person who made it is "Lena Raine" who also made "Pigstep" in Minecraft.

[@jasper265]

I only ever played Celeste Classic, but I think this video would really have benefited from a (brief?) comparison. Of course, Classic was created in just four days, so it can't even be expected to really do the final version justice, but rarely do you get such a great answer to the question "what would the game have been like without all the things we just talked about?"

[@afroarchitect2446]

Another really great video mark. I'm always thoroughly impressed with your videos and especially your editing. These vids always have a great flow and are informative.

[@liraco_mx]

I remember discovering "coyote time" way back in DKC1 for the SNES, where you could roll off a ledge and still jump afterward. It felt like it unlocked a whole new level of movement for the game. Makes me wonder what other games added cheats like this in early platformers.

[@fbritannia]

I'm generally not a fan of platformers, unless they are Metroidvanias. Celeste feels so good to play that I haven't been able to put it down, it truly is a masterclass in game design. What an excellent game it is, and this video is a very good explanation of why it feels so good. I'd love to design games, but I don't like math, maybe one day I'll be able to help with story and art design or something like that.

[@Henralen]

I love Celeste so much. That game means a lot to me. Its awesome to see how it was made.

[@nebulae5236]

If you want to see how far the mechanics of this game can be pushed, here’s some fun options! A TAS doing chapter 9: farewell in under 4 minutes: kzbin.info/www/bejne/lXfUf5qemZiXg5I The game pushed to its limit: kzbin.info/www/bejne/aqrdZpd_aseDbdE The most precise Celeste gets: kzbin.info/www/bejne/bmLbd2imbbKDg68 or kzbin.info/www/bejne/lWaslpWio79ji5I The most “what the hell how is this possible”: kzbin.info/www/bejne/hX3cZad-pMebjJo The most “what the hell what is even happening”: kzbin.info/www/bejne/d2GVqYywhraolas or kzbin.info/www/bejne/oWmnl5iJebKBbqc And, of course, the Celeste WR: www.speedrun.com/celeste Feel free to ask any other questions you may have, I’d love to explain/show stuff about this amazing game!

[@bsylar]

This video is really amazing, from the research to the interview, and awesome editing. But I'm a little bit disappointed that the music didn't get any mention. If the title of the video is why Celeste feels so good to play, you really have to credit Lena Raine's work on the soundtrack. The music is what makes the game so emotionally fulfilling. Even this video itself is so pleasant to watch because of the background music. Excellent video nonetheless!

[@voxelmakesvideos]

It feels weird going back to this video and seeing maddy still call herself matt

[@Trianull]

1:36 "An A Press actually has three parts to it."

[@legoboy7107]

"But first, we need to talk about parallel universes."

[@the0mini0prutt]

TJ ””””””HENRY””””” Yoshi

[@royalpressgaming]

Wow, truly amazing how precisely everything is coded to get Madeline moving to perfection. No wonder Celeste felt so seamless and fluid to play! Thank you for the superb breakdown!

[@jordanottesen1186]

This is my all time favorite video essay on KZbin right now.

[@notrealsaga]

I honestly want to read a book written by those two about Celeste design, i would definitely buy that

[@pijays]

So you are saying that this game makes you FEEL like Madeline.

[@leebard9335]

You made me FEEL like I was reading a comment.

[@kobinpaizlimona9088]

I don't now if i hate you or i like you for writing this

[@HaydenTheEeeeeeeeevilEukaryote]

I don’t get it

[@Bengy.]

Really makes you *feel* like Madeline.

[@MisterAppleEsq]

@@HaydenTheEeeeeeeeevilEukaryote Lots of reviews for Spiderman PS4 said that it made you *feel* like Spiderman. Then memes.

[@ScorpionF1RE_USA]

Celeste probably has the best 2D gameplay ever created. To me, there's not even a close second. I have thousands of dollars worth of games and gaming gear, yet I keep coming back to Celeste. It is a testament. The built-in Speed Run timer is also a great touch that I wish all games had.

[@cameronschiralli3569]

Wonderful video. What I find amazing is how easily the player can forget the "forgiveness" aspect when playing. I've probably put about 60 hours into that game, completing every level up to 5C, and only just learned ~15 minutes ago that the game has a buffer system for jumping after a dash and still lets you jump after walking off an edge for a short time. The corner forgiveness is something I knew about beforehand, but it's really not something I even consciously think about. I'm sure the game wouldn't feel nearly as good without those pieces, but even if they're not noticed by players, they make the experience so much better

[@BrandonTschetter]

7:44 This was great. The small but noticeable ding when you say the name of the move, going up with each one. I love it.

[@TheEchoTheory]

Subbed. Never had someone explain mechanics, and why those mechanics translate to enjoyable gameplay in such an engaging way - kudos!

[@TheGTX1650]

"Why does it feel so good to play Celeste?" Me on more than 5000 deaths: wait it does???

[@JoeyGBean]

"madaline's jump is quite short, only about 3 times her height" could you imagine if a human jumped 10-12 feet in the air?!

[@starfieldgames5976]

maddy has joked that she is 213 cm or 7 feet tall, so, if canon, it would be 21 feet in the air

[@Ralathar44]

"The ghost jump" also known as "coyote time" where you can jump a few frames after leaving a platform is pretty standard in platforms and has been around for MANY years, IIRC it was in the very first Mario game even. Because it just feels bad to miss your jump off of a platform by a few frames. Even if it's definitely your fault, it feels like you are fighting the controls instead of the jumping puzzle. I feel like I see constant articles about this these days. It feels weird considering how long that little trick has been around.

[@Lumpfriend]

Yeah I thought it was weird he didn't mention that that's a standard asset of platformers too. Although it's probably more noticeable in Celeste than in many other games

[@cearaj405]

I think it was just mentioned because many new devs miss this trick, along with the one about jumping a bit before getting on the ground

[@一本のうんち]

I hate coyote time. Feels like game treats you like a kid. I always notice when that happens and go like wtf why did my character jump, it was clearly off the ledge.

[@liam_iam]

You outdid yourself with this video Mark. Really well paced and interesting video with a lot of different perspectives on the game. I love the devs' comment about content that doesn't make it into the game still being valuable as 'progress' towards the end goal. Knowing what does and doesn't work is what makes you an expert at your craft.

[@tommydrager5497]

very crucial and fundamental topic which most of the designers arent even aware of. . great video like usual. . I cant stop recommending your channel to my colleagues. btw whoever is doing your sounddesign in the video.. its just perfect!

[@voxelheart]

FINALLY THE CELESTE VIDEO I've been waiting for this for so long.

[@link1day]

It’s treats the player well by not making them restart too far back (so far anyway through ch. 4 A and B)

[@Readysetheal]

Holy shit! Enby representation without being mocked!

[@tyresr]

?

[@exigency2231]

What does this mean? Madeline isn’t non binary. Both she and Maddy Thorson are trans women.

[@azumarill964]

@@exigency2231 So Matt is a deadname? Edit, already investigated about the topic, Maddy Thorson (previously Matt) is non binary, despite their name being femenine.

[@codertommy6883]

@@exigency2231 did you even read the pinned comment

[@lucasferes3519]

Great job man!! This video got me hooked it didn't feel like 17 minutes, seriously. I love platformers and i've been away from these type of games since i dropped consoles in favor of PC. But after i got the Nintendo Switch, i started to play them again and oh boy, i didn't know i missed them this much! Congrats to the devs, that's how it should be, they really care and put effort in the making of the game ❤️

[@internisus]

Incredible analysis. Also, your graphics/effects work is amazing; so clean and slick.