Why the Wealthy Are Fleeing Massachusetts

Massachusetts stands to lose almost $1 billion in annual revenue by 2030 as high taxes and housing costs push wealthy residents to move elsewhere. Mark Williams, the primary researcher on the study and a lecturer at Boston University's Questrom School of Business, explains on Bloomberg Television.
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[@indianapatsfan]

The wealthy aren't leaving Massachusetts, the middle class is leaving Massachusetts.

[@chrisclassical7]

the middle class who can't afford to stay. the stupid article is trying to make it about the millionaire tax, a rethorical fallacy or fake news

[@M1911jln]

The wealthy are indeed leaving MA.

[@personnesenki4521]

When this tax was imposed in another blue state, 3000 of the wealthiest taxpayers left.

[@Charactermatters650]

The middle class is leaving the USA - has been from the sixties - the great hollowing out

[@FirstHandLLC]

Just moved over the border to NH. Literally nothing has changed in my life other than saving tens of thousands of dollars from not paying ridiculous taxes.

[@chrisclassical7]

how are the real estate taxes up there

[@clarem2772]

Just don't vote like you are still in MA

[@chrisclassical7]

hope you are working in nh and not ma

[@deanfirnatine7814]

So are you going to vote the same high tax authoritarian liberals into office in NH?

[@Wickedpissah138]

Thanks for relocating to better your life! Meanwhile… all of you escaping MA and flooding NH increased our property taxes, increased congestion on our roads and have caused a massive spike in auto collisions and increased insurance premiums. Thanks for all that! (PSA… stop moving to New Hampshire and fix your own state!)

[@chimeinconsults]

Massachusetts taxpayers are tired of the higher taxes from what I am gathering and they are speaking with their feet.

[@felixthecat2786]

Yeah, well we're tired of rich people stealing all of the housing

[@patrickk1028]

Please we have one of the best tax rates in the country for the quality of life that we get.

[@chimeinconsults]

@@patrickk1028 OK thanks, I will be sure to inform my clients that when they have to pay those high state taxes.

[@patrickk1028]

@@chimeinconsults Cool, they can move if they want. We have to many people in the metro area anyways. Maybe if they start leaving we will have less of a housing crisis.

[@TheCossack]

@@patrickk1028 they are moving, that's the whole point of this news story lol, once the highest taxpayers leave we'll see how the quality of life holds up.

[@dougiep2769]

Same reason 200,000 Canadian moved to America alone last year.. tired of insane tax costs and nothing for it.. you can only rip people off so long

[@chrisclassical7]

i hope they aren't claiming asylum

[@billl1127]

Must be horrible in Canada if the better tax option is America

[@dougiep2769]

@@chrisclassical7 that's what's coming next..

[@ES-qu1jd]

I'm neither wealthy nor elderly and I'm moving before the end of the year. A better quality of life is out there! 😄

[@diffened]

Good luck finding it. I've heard that some people with your sentiments are moving to Russia.

[@billl1127]

California uses the same strategy. Many affluent and middle class retirees are cashing out and headed to Texas, Idaho, Arizona.

[@larrys4618]

Couldn't pay me to move to Texas or Idaho. Might as well move to Iran or Afghanistan.

[@billl1127]

@@larrys4618 You mean they don't offer all the free handouts you're accustomed to in Calif?

[@Somethingsomething3333]

Why would a retiree with low income trade in high income tax CA for high property taxes?

[@billl1127]

@Somethingsomething3333 If you are low income you wouldn't own a house and property taxes would not be a concern. However, the lower rental costs outside of CA would.

[@julieb7785]

@@larrys4618 ditto.

[@davidwelty9763]

You over tax, people leave. It’s very simple.

[@chrisclassical7]

that is not true. taxes are low is some african countries so you could go there and miss out on all the wonderful state of massachusetts has to offer.

[@diffened]

That definitely isn't true. The wealthy go to Mississippi, then what are they going to do? Not the same high tech, high paying jobs down there.

[@gnice8765]

Massachusetts/New California

[@Joseph-ly7sb]

I left Massachusetts earlier this year. Best decision I've ever made.

[@Phil-G1075]

Cause they are smart, I have zero idea what any of my taxes are being spent on. It’s a joke. Should reform the whole system. It’s disgusting how they take our money and things just get worse every year,.

[@Bradimoose]

Supporing hundeds of thousands of state employees that retire at 50 in FL with pensions and Free healthcare for live is what.

[@SK-lt1so]

​@@Bradimoose Yes! Nothing more obnoxious than public employees screaming for more tax dollars in Massachusetts, then retire to low tax Florida! You can't make this up!

[@Bradimoose]

@@zp8qu State troopers, toll workers, and the T in boston has tons of people that retire young after a hard 20 years collecting train tickets.

[@Bradimoose]

@@zp8qu most people have to work 40 years to create a nest egg large enough to retire on. But since healthcare is free mass state employees can retire in their 50s while everyone else pays for their lengthy retirement in Florida.

[@Bradimoose]

@@zp8qu it’s bc the unions promise votes in exchange for good benefit packages and pensions. After a while it’s unsustainable and it can’t support all the benefits on the backs of everyone else. The pension obligation are massive. You can’t have every state employee retiring at 50 forever.

[@robertcovino4889]

Massachusetts didn’t earn the nickname Taxachusetts for no reason 😂

[@weho_brian]

raise tax on wealthy, force wealthy to move out of state. Great job

[@NickHulse]

Now they will tax the poor more.

[@MachineGunPepe]

@@NickHulse Vicious Neverending cycle with high tax mindsets.

[@litojonny]

boo hoooo those poor millionaires :( every night i cry myself thinking of millionaires struggling to buy mansions and boats to avoid peasants

[@riumudamc4686]

@@litojonny Not about mansions and boats. It's about average people trying to raise families looking at the costs

[@chrisclassical7]

from what i can see people who can afford to live in mass aren't moving out. imagine having a lot of money and wanting to live is a shitbox state because the taxes are less. like buying cheap toilet paper because the good stuff costs more.

[@clifcody]

Thanks for sharing

[@Sonofawildanimal4241]

THE COST OF HOUSING/LIVING IS EXORBITANT

[@ryantaylor3805]

Imagine a 3 bedroom ranch with single car garage, finished basement and 1.5 baths is going for 575k. I mean c'mon. This is an hour outside of Boston.

[@diffened]

@@ryantaylor3805 I agree with you, but the reason real estate is high is because the demand is high which means maybe that many people aren't leaving after all.

[@bjdon99]

I left MA for the DC suburbs of VA 13 yrs ago now. What a difference! Better weather, better schools, better economy, better houses. VA,’s govt, whether led by Dems or Republicans, is pro growth. It’s like night and day between here and there.

[@tomf9292]

Lifelong mass resident. My town is about to have another tax override of adding $ 6.8 million more to our $110 mil budget. I’ve had enough. I’m retired and like 3 of my good friends am moving to FLA. cheaper than Mass, lower taxes, no state income tax, NO puritanical laws, and I won’t even mention the weather. I’ll be spending the summers at my place on Cape Cod which has really low taxes because of tourism (like FLA). Bye bye Mass I’ll be a FLA resident by November and taking MY MONEY with me.

[@Marco3202002]

Well you're retired, you aren't supposed to live where you retired from. You're supposed to move south like older generations did.

[@chrisclassical7]

the only problem with florida is that it is florida. of course if you are a maga that is a different equation, if you want to live in paradise then you have to pay the price paradise asks.

[@TheCossack]

Is this Westford? I've seen so many signs supporting the override in that town, why would you want to be taxed more is my thoughts.

[@genZetarded]

studied in boston, lived in CA, vegas, texas. Never moving to MA. Houses, gas, expensive, taxes. If you are starting out go out for Nevada, AZ, TX, Mid west youll save a lot. Beautiful in fall & spring though.

[@larrys4618]

If you are happy with being mediocre and want to go somewhere somewhere affordable move to Indiana

[@atleiker]

How many that are leaving are retirees?

[@power2me1]

My favorite annual tradition when living in MA was "personal property tax." The state calculates the value of your vehicles and personal belongings, every year, and sends you a tax bill. For real. Taxachussetts blows.

[@tomtalley2192]

Wrong, it’s only on vehicles. If you lease a car, you technically don’t own it. So they still tax you but can’t call it an excise tax, so they call it a personal property tax.

[@power2me1]

@@tomtalley2192 my bad, should have chosen my words more carefully. It's not one lumped up tax bill, there is the vehicle tax AND there is another one for your stuff. trust me. you can refuse to let them in your home, we all did, but it's a real thing. they try to visit you and see what else you have in case they under-estimated. "Oh look, you have a lawnmower and shed full of tools too, we'll add that." No different than the king's tax our country's founders fought just a few generations ago. insane.

[@caffeinej2691]

You have already communism in the US?

[@chrisclassical7]

@@caffeinej2691 massachusetts is a liberal state by usa standards, however by european standards mass would be a far right state. it amazes me the amount of americans who haven't got a pot to piss in who think capitalism is the gold standard. america exists to make the super rich even richer and keep the rest of us servile.

[@phoenix5054]

​@@chrisclassical7 You make "far right" sounds good. How was the youth employment situation going in Spain and Italy? Half of Europe is an economic hellscape compared to the US.

[@SK-lt1so]

Yup New York tax policies turned upstate into a wasteland and Massachusetts is working on the same.

[@joeyperry1145]

Housing is totally out of control! This should have been a priority years ago.

[@chrisclassical7]

30 percent of single family homes that come on the market are being bought up by billionaires for cash. that might be causing a problem but chanells lik this don't want to talk about the .01%

[@minnybiker4505]

I moved to Boston from Minneapolis back in 2001. I loved it there! Unfortunately, after 3 years, I still couldn't afford to own a home and had to leave. After a brief stay in Denver, I moved back to Minneapolis. I own a home and can comfortably afford to live well, plus it's so much easier to get around. I miss Massachusetts and wish I could have stayed... But my quality of life is higher here in Minnesota. Still love to visit!

[@BugMateo]

We can always count with Romain repeating, almost word by word, whatever the guest just said. Thanks a lot bud!

[@maroon9273]

Going back to the 70s and 80s Massachusetts economic downfall.

[@frederickmuhlbauer9477]

1990 was worse in Mass

[@GarzaB]

They are coming to NC. I live in Raleigh. 3 of my new neighbors are from Boston area.

[@mannyechaluce3814]

You don't become rich by sitting around and let your hard earned money be drained out of you to pay for the slackers of the society

[@rafest6532]

I grew up knowing many people from Massachusetts. They used to call it Taxachusetts. They all eventually moved out. Now I don’t know anyone who lives in Massachusetts .

[@billwatkins8227]

I still live here because of who I am married to, not because I want to.

[@holycrapchris]

I wonder about the _age_ of the people who are leaving MA. Retirees often sell the family home and relocate, and Boomers are retiring as the wealthiest generation ever. So questions remain: is there an outsized percentage of HNW people among those leaving MA, with regards to their age? If young HNW individuals were leaving, then it would be easier to pin taxation as a cause of the flight. Otherwise, it may just be that retirees are relocating, and their wealth is just a correlated characteristic.

[@marcosrafael6858]

Exactly.

[@deltadarling23]

The Greater Boston CoC polled millennials earlier this year and 25% said they wanted to leave the area. Taxes and home prices are a huge factor.

[@tomecho1]

Idk why they said maine has lower taxes. It doesn’t, maine has higher taxes. Especially if you’re high income.

[@eyelovecolorado2195]

Why are the wealthy leaving mass? Because they can do basic 3rd grade math!! 😂😂😂😂😂

[@ZandaaaaXD]

Seemed like Mark Williams maybe had a more nuanced understanding than the interviewers but didn't have the time to talk about it or just wasn't the focus of the clip. Mass had a flat 5% tax rate, they voted recently to make that 9% on income over $1m, so 4% more than they were already paying. It barely passed, voters here seemed pretty divided on the issue. And even in the literature provided to voters it was clearly stated that this might hurt state revenue in the long term, which is probably why people like Mark Williams are looking at it, so adjustments could be made in the future if there was a strong reason to do so. There are states in the area with lower taxes for wealthy individuals, but also several states around with similar levels and most wealthy-but-not-ultra-wealthy individuals would likely see no change in their net tax rate given it's still only on $1m per year and up. If you make $900,000 a year I would personally consider you pretty wealthy, but you'd be in the same tax bracket as someone making $25,000. Mark didn't (in this clip anyway) get to talk about housing cost which certainly are a huge problem in Mass regardless of your income level, I'd imagine that is just as large a contributor to people leaving, regardless of income. So just like there wasn't any way to know for sure if raising taxes would raise revenue long-term (and indeed we still don't know, since the trend of people leaving started before the new tax and the future is still the future, this could all change next year), there is also no way to know if people moving out would have happened anyway or if lowering taxes would actually bring anyone back. There's also other things at play here like many Mass residents wanting to move towards a graduated tax system rather than a flat one, which is tricky since the tax system is within the state constitution rather than a separate set of laws. You only get to vote on what makes it to the ballot. There's also some question of what the value of wealthy residents really is for the state as a whole, and the general eb and flow of people moving in and out of urban centers over time. Would have been nice if Bloomberg offered some more nuance. Low taxes are nice, people like them, but they're certainly not the only factor that affect where people choose to live. And the data offered was a projection based on a model, with this professor researching a theory.

[@Jjjaaahhnn]

Infrastructure combined with traffic is the worst in the country with the amount of congestion and other metros nearby.

[@PelosiStockPortfolio]

So are you suggesting that when a wealthy person moves out of state they sell their big house to a working class person?

[@felixthecat2786]

They will sell it to someone offering all cash. Definitely not working or even middle class.

[@tonyburzio4107]

They sell it to a pension fund manager.

[@georgeroesser974]

We are seeing over and over that a capitalistic economy eventually fails...when people earn, literaly, 100% more than other full time workers and those full time workers don't earn enough to improve their families's life style (especially those who served their country in the armed forces), something is broken. So far, the politicians in places like Massachusttes, use unfair tax programs to "help" those in need. It's time to broaden the conversation!

[@over07ful]

Keep voting Dem.

[@_kostant]

Thinking it’s tax related and not housing costs is purely delusional. Either that or these people haven’t had to do any real estate related business in the last 20 years.

[@nunyabidness3075]

Housing cost isn’t an issue for the wealthy. I paid cash for my home in upstate NY, and it’s not a problem because putting the money in the markets instead isn’t a good idea right now. It’s also crazy to start a business of your own unless you are a deca or have an actually low net worth (leveraged). I’m retired, but if I were not, I’d move south simply to get away from over regulation. High taxes correlate very strongly with too much government power. Psychologically, it’s a huge double whammy. They take you time and your money, and then you worry about whether they will keep making it worse.

[@lawrencekennedy1123]

Left Mass. 7 years ago for northern AZ. Winter and cost of living plus traffic my reasons

[@SalPal]

I honestly love living in Massachusetts.

[@chrisclassical7]

kind of an oxymoron because you have to have a lot of money to live in mass and every house that comes on the market has multiple offers. the ones leaving just aren't wealthy enough to live in massachusetts comfortably.

[@Da__goat]

Democratic policies

[@sew_gal7340]

Moved from San Fran to a red city and taxes are low, crime is low, people are united, and I can leave my house unlocked. I will gladly pay for more taxes just to live here. If you live in a good city, don't share it with anyone... Or more people will come

[@toddmccormick4707]

Elizabeth Warren

[@shazamdeal]

As someone who has lived in South Florida for 27 years it’s gotten expensive and we are getting screwed with our home owners insurance. The healthcare is one of the worst in the nation and our public schools are as well ( and have got worse with our current governor). Can’t wait to move out

[@anb4351]

Tax the rich they said. If you over tax the rich, this remove the incentive for rich to do business and they are incentivized to take their business somewhere else. And now you have no tax.

[@tomtalley2192]

The wealthy also create jobs

[@diffened]

@@tomtalley2192 aaahahahahahahhahahaaaaa ........the wealthy eliminate as many jobs as they can so they can become wealthier. That simple saying is way beyond its useful date. "They create jobs." hahaha good one.

[@frankdatankdegen9553]

Leaving Massachusetts also. Cost of living is ridiculously expensive going out the U.S. is best thing most people can do..

[@kevinraimond7658]

Blue state blues

[@kerri5595]

Yes, I left MA for Philly so I could retire early about 8 yrs ago

[@aliamarieruns]

Keep increasing taxes and keep watching people leave. Left CA for TX for this exact reason. Took my high salary with me. Good luck taxing the poor and what's left of the middle class.

[@txbre8758]

We don’t want you in Texas! You raise OUR housing costs with your migration. Average Texans do not have YOUR salary. Selfish!

[@JA-vv8wy]

Please don’t vote blue in Texas. We are concerned it will eventually wind up like CA because democrats will bring their ideology which will negatively impact the lower cost of living due to democrat policies being more socialist which is more expensive for the poor & middle class

[@chrisclassical7]

enjoy texas and everything it hasn't got

[@VulcanLogic]

My dad in Texas pays more taxes than I do now because the property taxes are jacked through the roof. He's paying $8k in property taxes when I only pay $2700 for property taxes with about $3k in income tax.

[@aliamarieruns]

@@VulcanLogic Yeah, the property taxes are definitely high here. I grew up in NH, so I'm plenty familiar with how obnoxious high property taxes are. Not sure if this works in other states, but make sure you tell your dad to fight them every year. I've been successful with fighting my appraisal (and ultimately my property tax increase) for the last 3 years here. So there is that, at least. My comment was more in regards to general tax (state income tax, gas tax, sales tax, etc.) increases. While CA property taxes are low, they tax you to death on every single little thing and continue to raise it every year. The taxes, and the crime/policies, are what's driving us high earners out--leaving the lower income earners to shoulder the ever increasing costs. Hopefully the people of MA can keep their reps honest and vote responsibly so that this doesn't happen in MA. People in CA are all idi0ts when it comes to this.

[@paulsaragosa371]

The bee gees are like leaving now

[@personnesenki4521]

Every state that imposed a millionaire's tax saw their richest taxpayers leave.

[@diffened]

Source?

[@personnesenki4521]

@@diffened Why do you come to the argument without knowing these basic facts?

[@diffened]

@@personnesenki4521 I'm asking for your non-existent source. Again, source? Your brain doesn't count.

[@personnesenki4521]

@@diffened if you aren't familiar with rich people moving out of high tax states I don't know what to tell you.

[@diffened]

@@personnesenki4521 So you have no source, it is just a "feeling" you have. Shouldn't be so hard to cite a source. Sure, there are always going to be weasels (sorry weasels) who can't spare a few cents for the minimum wage people they employ, but Massachusetts has done pretty well in the past without them. What did that guy say again? something to the effect that Mass is still number one in many categories? Can they go to Alabama, et al and get the same salary or quality of life? 4 cents on anything over one million is a pittance. The US government charges me 25 cents on everything I make over what? 65 or 70 k ? I'll be waiting for the source, but won't be holding my breath.

[@StamperWendy]

People are moving to: Tennessee, the Carolinas & Italy.

[@anb4351]

obviously,

[@xa3558]

They left Boston to avoid speed bumps and potholes😂🎉

[@aronisaacs6774]

But why do they have to leave in canoes

[@phosho862]

I love all the low earning people talking about wealthy people avoiding taxes in the comments.

[@paulsaragosa371]

Holly strawberries batman we are in a jam in a nanoseconds

[@Curtis7391-t8q]

Taxes and the cost of living!

[@robertm.6583]

Taxachutsetts

[@pikminlord343]

Taxes and housing But mostly insane housing costs

[@ShamileII]

Come on down to Florida! Bring your business and your wealth here. Besides great weather, we have NO state income taxes, low fees, business friendly, right to work state and great infrastructure with super smooth roads.

[@willishere321]

The lower third of Florida will be underwater by 2100

[@genZetarded]

too much insurance, rent, housing prices. seeing documentaries on hurricane recently - i wonder how people decide to put millions on beachfront property there.

[@goldguilder9554]

That’s a lifetime later

[@a.leehilliard4716]

Florida is a gutter. You can't even afford to have insurance there. It is underwater half the year.

[@tonyburzio4107]

Amazing that the beach is where it always has been.

[@_sparrowhawk]

Where is your Boston accent? Also is she really smiling? Are you sure she’s local?

[@FlyWithVeiga]

Massachusetts is a great state. Just so expensive; your money will go much further elsewhere!

[@LOTUG98]

Its not the wealthy .....its everyone who doesnt want to pay state income tax.

[@skullandbones1832]

💚

[@darwincity]

Let me guess… taxes?

[@2cupojoe136]

In boats!

[@dinosaurdude5668]

Well I was 20 yrs early on this trend.

[@Sparta1993]

Taxes and liberal policies.

[@diffened]

What liberal policies? Being humane to other people? Providing good education and healthcare?

[@logicmyth]

Tax refugees! A very powerful yet victimized group (rich people) will move away. Shows you that your outrageous demand of taxing 4% for $500/hr is contemptable. Now all students can receive free lunch. Great.

[@TheThreatenedSwan]

If you leave a state because of policies you then push in your new state of residence, you should be punished

[@thomaskim3128]

As a socialist nation, American cities should not attack its wealthy residents. The governments should be appreciative of these wealthy individuals by sending them annual bouquets to show that the governments welcome their residency in the locale. Instead of demonizing them.

[@user-jn9gv9ve6e]

if you are smart there are 9 states with no state income tax. why stay in a high tax state.

[@AnthonyLoflin-nq8wo]

Democrats.

[@MS-ty8eq]

Excellent health-care ,excellent education, low crime, somewhat low diversity. Massachusetts is a high cost state but you get what you pay for.

[@TheCossack]

Unless you go into any urban area, that somewhat low spikes to a lot.

[@tatemericanpsycho]

Put some fuckin weight on, Steel.

[@robertm.6583]

They move out but they won't change their political position.

[@joekennedy2599]

Not convincing

[@geekmeister3997]

Every blue state will fall.

[@cihant5438]

Yep, everybody is going to move to Mississippi with its low taxes.

[@haute03]

😂

[@TheMagicJIZZ]

​@@cihant5438maybe for housing tbh The state has poor jobs

[@danieldemicco783]

Oh yea Massachusetts is really falling apart with its best schools in the nation, low crime, and good healthcare.

[@stefanpappas822]

The reality is these wealthy folks leave on paper , they still have their homes in Nantucket , and Boston. Really who would leave Boston for all it has available in culture, education and the arts.

[@OhArchie]

The reality is, they take their tax dollars with them. Also, hate to break your bubble but culture, education, and the arts aren’t exclusive to Boston.

[@sb5224]

Not everyone is interested in arts and other finer things. Others who are and have the resources can travel globally to experience it. Don't need to live in Boston year round for it.

[@highlymedicated2438]

Theres no culture here. Damn you must have never been to Californina if you think this white ass state has culture 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@TheCossack]

There's an entire world outside of Boston, you really do think small in Mass.

[@parler8698]

😂

[@briangaffney9804]

Because it’s a blue state that’s why!

[@matthewp1682]

High taxes and woke left politics

[@professorprofessorson8795]

This is why we need increase taxes at the federal level otherwise the rich will just weasel out of it

[@TheCossack]

Then they'll just move their assets out of the country or themselves if they really want, good luck then lol

[@kensta2468]

Wtf happened to his nose!?

[@Zero11_ss]

All states need to have the same tax laws so these wealthy have nowhere to run.

[@WorldVidzz]

oh they have, they'll just leave america, it's not like the crime rate and fat women are attractive, lol

[@davidwestwater2219]

0ne billion is very litle and screw them im wealthy and don't care

[@Stoicgenuis]

There not wealthy

[@felixthecat2786]

Good riddance, maybe some of the housing will finally open up again

[@TheCossack]

Bruh, people this wealthy live in mansions worth 7 figures, they're not going to be purchased by bums like you just because they sold it and moved 😂😂😂

[@Shell2014]

With hard working people moving out, there won’t be anyone to support you…

[@YouilAushana]

0:46 - they coming to Arizona. No, tell them to pay their socialist city taxes

[@ns281]

You did not ask if these were ULTRA RIGHT WING EXTREMISTS (young and old) leaving MA. URWE leaving your state is a GREAT development! POUR IT ON!