Masha Gessen on the Trump-Putin relationship - the fifth estate

Masha Gessen is a journalist who has seen as a political troublemaker by Russian President Vladimir Putin. Fired from her job for refusing a Putin-ordered assignment, she was attacked and beaten on a Moscow street. She moved to the US and has observed the similarities and differences between Trump and Putin.
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About the fifth estate : For four decades the fifth estate has been Canada's premier investigative documentary program. Hosts Bob McKeown, Gillian Findlay and Mark Kelley continue a tradition of provocative and fearless journalism. the fifth estate brings in-depth investigations that matter to Canadians - delivering a dazzling parade of political leaders, controversial characters and ordinary people whose lives were touched by triumph or tragedy.

[@brinjoness3386]

2 years later and this is eerily accurate.

[@TallyRocky]

She is intellectually brilliant.

[@jessicafalstein]

3 and 4 years later even more accurate.

[@planetcaravan2925]

@@jessicafalstein how so

[@dianewhalen9721]

Too bad that mainstream media doesn’t think more like her.Thank god she is out there

[@mohanloke]

She is excellent and her analysis is exceptional.

[@nonameyet9165]

She is a complete reprobate. That is why the left loves this liar so much

[@nonameyet9165]

All of your leftist scum have exposed themselves. They don't need my help. The media have gotten it wrong over and over. From kavanugh to the Covington kids. Russia collusion being the biggest one. For 2 years we were told Muller would bring everything out. WRONG! You fascist baby killers one day will face the wrath of God so you would be wise to reconsider who you serve.

[@johnooost]

You're kidding?

[@desolateone8403]

She?... Please don't confuse me🤔

[@sdscipio]

Amazingly intelligent interview. Listening to it a year later, she gave a prophecy here.

[@millana6292]

That was a fantastic interview, thank-you Masha and the 5th estate.

[@RalphDratman]

Masha Gessen is amazing.

[@ludmilaturkova1274]

and What do you Think of Julie Ioffe?

[@22ergie]

@@ludmilaturkova1274 hot! and I'm female :) ...and she is also very intelligent like many Russians

[@Impedancenetwork]

Yeah but only if you mean amazingly ugly. Jesus he is perfect for radio. Please stay away from cameras.

[@22ergie]

@@Impedancenetwork She is beautiful in her own way, and her intelligence and knowledge are amazingly sexy. You are ugly on the inside and obviously have no level of intelligence, as your words stem from ignorance.

[@jon780249]

Excellent interview. Gessen is full of important insights and thought provoking arguments.

[@carolyntalbot947]

She's been warning Americans for years about the insidious nature of fascist movements, as she pointed out the signs have been glaring. It makes me think of the Sinclair Lewis quote "when fascism comes to America," which gave me chills the first time I saw someone share it in reference to Trump on social media in 2016.

[@Longtack55]

"Political Troublemaker" = All people's badge of honour Masha. Thank you for speaking bravely intelligently and articulately against tyrants.

[@tashareally3959]

Wow. This is The most astute analysis of current events I have heard. Masha Gessen you are my new hero! Much respect

[@badcampa2641]

LOL

[@clivewilson116]

totally agree

[@KlondikeG]

This guy is a bold face liar.

[@jannanijland5336]

Yes, she's my new guru!

[@williammaurer9450]

This lady is brilliant.

[@KarenBentley]

Thank you

[@qlamoy]

I admire her ability to look at a polarized topic and explain objectively both sides. Also, she can dismiss the white noise.

[@frankisays2much]

"Facts are not enough... You have to have the courage and confidence to tell the story". Well said.

[@davidcopperfield-notthemag397]

Also must believe the truth and apply it. Stand up for truth. That takes immense courage.

[@ajcarr1965]

Actually, facts are enough. Just facts, skip the embellishments.

[@wen6519]

I love Masha Gessen's voice

[@suzannereiser4720]

“They lie to assert their authority over reality” ... first time I’ve heard this true analysis.

[@BrettHar123]

Those who invent such phrases are usually guilty of the same offense.

[@kristijohnson5675]

brilliant. we need you.

[@MarcGoudreau]

Its great to hear such an incisive and articulate summary of the political genesis and ethos of the Trump autocracy in America. Ms. Gessen is an exceedingly bright and insightful journalist whose opinions and perspectives need to be heard again and again on a broad front.

[@ijsjustme1394]

Marc Goudreau you can tell, that she wouldn't vote for the orange clown, she's educated

[@kidzfromthebloc]

She's Russian, she knows how to recognize an autocrat

[@sashabyars730]

I admire you Masha, thank you for doing all this for us and our children!

[@valerieziel11147]

Very smart woman.

[@ijsjustme1394]

Steph the uneducated still won't believe the truth, no matter what smh

[@maiareim]

Masha is a light unto our nation. Such a voice of wisdom, she gives me hope for humankind.

[@rebeccahale322]

honest, informed and brave. Thank you!

[@johnooost]

You're kidding????

[@lopezb]

A brilliant thinker. She makes me proud to be an American. Oh, she's Russian... makes me proud to be a human being.

[@rocantenrocanten4150]

мда

[@sunray9941]

Caution, Russian collusion!

[@bennysaravi2832]

One of the most clever woman I have ever watched and listened

[@nonameyet9165]

A liar and a reprobate. I see why the left loves this one.

[@sarahmarkou7566]

Amazing analysis. Thank you.

[@ellebelle8515]

March, 2022- This was five years ago and how well she got it. A shame how so many continue to disrespect the democracies that many of their forefathers died for.

[@pjpredhomme7699]

it happens all day long just watch those magats - wearing those blue lives matter shirts - while beating congressional police - with a flagpole - that pretty much summed them up perfectly

[@omyomar8468]

She's great 👍

[@tashareally3959]

This interview turns out to be the best reason to have subscribed to The Fifth Estate

[@itsmeekers]

You both have a point, but when I noticed her ear I though wtf why is this man wearing dangling earrings?

[@thomasfox9689]

gean omar

[@indhira6433]

she makes me feel stupid, because she literally destroys what i believed these past few days....

[@patrickconnelly9767]

brilliant

[@gladeebuyan7388]

This is one intelligent woman !

[@southboundeightyone4958]

Watching June 2020. . . WOW!!!

[@earrelevantmusic]

Masha Gessen for president of everything!!!!

[@EmpireSun]

This is amazing thank you for sharing.

[@woodywoodlstein9519]

Masha is great. So smart. Fair.

[@blahpunk1]

When people tell you who they are believe them.

[@ludmilaturkova1274]

What a good analysis also in the hinsight. it's actually interesting to validate the analysts by watching Their contributions 1-2 years after the heat of the moment

[@italythroughmyeyes]

Thank you!

[@eleanorclub]

The interviewer is on one level -- and Gessen way, way above it.

[@Nounismisation]

She's tremendous, and really helpful.

[@user-iy6vk4gq8w]

A very clever women would be great is MSM interview her more she has a clear and clever analysis of what is happening. MSM must listen this woman learn for her

[@MaXx-rl5pf]

She is most Proffesional Analytic Jurnalist and such good Political Taktik.

[@Mr.MBarrett]

Prophetic!

[@sarahdrenth1540]

OMG if this amazing woman is really worried about nuclear war as a real possibility heaven help us!

[@BrettHar123]

@Martin G Yes, it's the roughly 1000 worst anti-Russian propagandists in think tanks, media, mostly in the US, UK, Ukraine and the Baltics who want to start a war.

[@blisspop6193]

What we learn from history is that we don't learn from history! 😒

[@kavaldzhia]

Maria Gessen has delivered the most astute insightful analysis of American politics... Kasparov is just another liberal trepach-bezdelnik however... what could tha armenian ever do for russia ?

[@turnabuoni]

this Armenian would not send young Russian men to die in Ucraine or Syria and he would certainly have smarter economic and political solutions that are helping ordinary Russians to improve their life instead of just the top 1% of oligarchs and corrupt politicians.

[@water8970]

such a brave woman

[@kevinberger3501]

Very interesting interview. Masha talks about needing "to change the face of the media" because the current form has become archaic. I would like to know what she thinks this new face should look like? What new strategy should the media take to combat all this undermining being done at the highest levels? How can the media restore it's credibility with the general population?

[@22ergie]

imho, put an immediate end to editorializing PERIOD! and that's just for starters...

[@edwardb7811]

KZbin should post the date this program was broadcast.

[@TallyRocky]

Edward B There is. Down button to the right of the title. That date is probably fairly accurate (2017)

[@michaelc.seeley4850]

Very informative and great depth of knowledge and professional presentation

[@jeffghant4760]

I was wondering how she was still alive before I read the description. Good for her. I hope Trump doesn't deport her at Putin's request.

[@kmarkgraha]

LGBT are rejected in Russia

[@zheniasf]

Except for Putin and a good bit of his inner circle

[@natalieinger2309]

Love Masha; love her books and am totally inspired whenever she gives interviews- great mind of this era without being self important.

[@williamyoung9401]

No closed captioning?

[@tomislavrajic3412]

Acute Intelligence and farsighted brilliance in the intellectual mastery of the formidable intricacies that threaten the upcoming evolution of our flawed democracies. A serene, slightly disillusioned and yet unwavering faith in the societal and moral superiority of democracy as the sole viable model for our modern societies. An irreplaceable moral reference for these troubled times that we have to live through when the frightening shadow of autocracy looms over many parts of our planet. Masha, you must know that all followers and supporters of democracy think of you with admiration and the deepest respect and dedication. We all stand by you in the accomplishment of your work. With my most faithful wishes in the victories to come for democracy.

[@salassian3162]

Why not turn on closed captions??? I think Masha Gessen is amazing. She has such insight it's hard to find another political commentator on Russia who compares. But her manner of speaking and dropping the volume drastically at certain points in her speech makes if very difficult to pick up her words. CC would help enormously. Please, please, please turn them on. And if possible edit them for accuracy.

[@MrRon1507]

Interesting interview!

[@lisamchugh1647]

I love hearing masha talking about Putin

[@plunderpunk2]

Gessen is a veritable steamroller for truth.

[@craigneuvirth2574]

I like Masha Gessen!

[@rebeccayoung6505]

Wow! How articulate and intelligent. Americans alas have no patience for this kind of thoughtful analysis. Rebecca

[@johnchretien5476]

please bring back an interview with Maasha Gessen for an interview on current Russia Ukraine crisis.

[@moelevinerules6732]

We need a million more Mashas. Which means all of us watching, who are not fox news, narrow minded imbeciles, need to speak up, write, and fight. It’s coming, so we either fight or accept it. I suggest we fight...

[@juttapluhar2819]

So intelligent! Honest !

[@KatHassinger]

Jan. 2021. This came true.

[@jessicafalstein]

watching this now after the election. everything rings true.

[@thelastaustralian7583]

A great example of generational subconscious social psychological conditioning ,,,

[@ladybug5859]

Love gessen redefining the election as 2 separate elections: one for autocrat n one for president. Re Obama, I believe gessen should have Nuanced What was Said by saying that Obama had NO choice but to govern by executive order due to Republicans vow to NOT allow him to accomplish anything or pass any legislation. I think that is important should have been stated

[@sabinegroe2006]

She is amazing 😻

[@TTownTim]

Masha Green has got to one of the most interesting people i have encountered in researching this topic...amazing intellect... somewhat mysterious somehow...maybe it's the topic that has me all CasaBlanca...=\/

[@JohnSmith-vy4lh]

It's not surprising Trump and Putin have a connection , they both have the same bosses .

[@bozobarr]

Satan?

[@davidgallegoes8283]

Not everyone is on twitter

[@distractionb]

Masha is rad

[@atheistgenocideinthebible1102]

Trump? He is a John Wayne of 21-Century!!!

[@joeporta1656]

Omg! America is on a knife edge!

[@atheistgenocideinthebible1102]

Democracy is a Lie, or Illusion, nothing more!!!

[@debrajenkins1622]

What happened to the people who testifies at Mueller report?

[@yohei72]

Masha Gessen is obviously a genius, but I'll take partial issue with one thing they say - 18:40 - I think exposing whatever leverage Putin might have over Trump (compromising info and/or financial debts, whatever) could be very politically useful. It might not be necessary to explain or understand Trump's behavior, but it could help wake up people who are still in denial about his Putinesque qualities - or just not paying attention to them. "Putin's got dirt on Trump!" is more direct and easily understood by average minds than "Here's my analysis of Trump's character and behavior." Still... jesus, this is terrifyingly prescient.

[@migueldariobasto4301]

trump ran on fear

[@22ergie]

Hahahahahahaahhehehehehehehhowhowhowhhohohohohahahahahahahahahah

[@Lyserge]

Who *is/was* [been] seen as. Where is the proof reading on this video description? Please fix this.

[@BogushCh]

It's consoling to read all the positive reaction to Masha Gessen's profound awareness of what's going on in Russia and the US but also (albeit secondarily) in Poland and Hungary. These are exceptionally dangerous times (although in Trump I now see, some five months' later, a man who is drowning in his incompetence, while Putin is there 'til death finally liberates Russia from him).

[@bozobarr]

At 33:33 I think what she said almost made me puke since she talks about nukes ☢️ This woman sees things like an oracle and seeing this on March 4, 2022, is making me quiver to know what will happen next with Ukraine and Putin 😱

[@outlawJosieFox]

my theory is that they are passing messages thru their kids who are supposedly always innocently holidaying together

[@outlawJosieFox]

Ha !! Four months later I find this comment of mine and Jared Kushner and Don Jnr are now having to give Senate testimony about their ties to Russia

[@Djaybird]

21:50 oof, masha predicted it

[@atheistgenocideinthebible1102]

We dont have Democracy eny where, or every where! Not in Sweden, not in Norway, nowhere!!!

[@queerstars1]

Every lie must be exposed and destroyed on a daily basis, and call out the liar as a fraud.

[@arbosssm4861]

trump 2020

[@pjpredhomme7699]

hahahahahhahahahahaha

[@thetortureneverstops]

She won the popular vote. The Electoral College changed that. Clinton won the popular vote in the 2016 election by approximately 2.87 million votes. According to the certified Federal Election Commission records, Clinton received 65,853,516 votes and Trump got 62.984,825.

[@adriankunst3473]

The case of impending autocracy is personality, diversionary tactics? One argument was the use of language -if I say something you don't like then I am challenging you with 'what are going to do about it?' and that is to show I have power over you? So, free speech is autocratic. However, what would you do about it but suppress my opinion altogether, but wouldn't that autocratic? Although we don't like a lot of things about Putin, you can't he hasn't been good for Russia or a leader and because I said that I must be on the side of autocracy? There's a lot here that is not adding up, I think this more feeds into fears than informing us about an actual concern. What's her talk about media? We need to make it essential to the public? The objective voice of the New York time is archaic? what is she alluding to? Tweeting is a dangerous undermining of the power of media, and we should be concerned by this?

[@babyfirefly6381]

Why have you disabled comments on the black lives matter & black panther videos?

[@missfeliss3628]

really needs those glasses

[@goodplenty2783]

who is this guy?

[@millana6292]

I really feel, as she said trump doesn't really have an agenda...take him for what you see, that trump is not intellectual enough to think that far ahead, and to think without his ego=emotion. He cannot control himself the way a person with a hidden agenda would have to. He is too reactionary, it is almost child like. A lot of his behaviours are child like, his bullying, his insecurity, instant gratification, name calling. A child doesn't often plan ahead, they are too busy dealing with the emotions of the moment, they can't help but lash out, ie. trump tweets. He acts like a spoiled, insecure little boy, his need to name drop, prove to himself BIG TIME how good he is. He also lies to himself and doesn't see reality as it is, he has no self awareness. He has a lot of serious issues. He may be business savvy, but I do not give trump high marks on intelligence regardless of what degrees he may have. Degrees can be bought.

[@EVZYL]

Why Gessen left Russia? Dollars, dollars, dollars.

[@TallyRocky]

EVZYL Check your facts before blurting out such stupid things.

[@markofsaltburn]

That must be why those other 5m Russians have left since Putin came to power.

[@cabinzy]

This whole "interview" is like a case study in political propaganda.

[@thomasskrappy3250]

Well said but, shes talented enough take the opposing view and sell it to her fans here. Now do you see the problem ?

[@LE-xr6fb]

When asked to give a simple example of the kind of 'fragile, 'informal institutions,' norms, and cultural habits that maintains societies" she cites "Trump's relationship to the media." As if Trump's tweets are what has been maintaining American society all these centuries. It's not families, or altruism, or moral character, or civility, or authentic Christian-values. It's Trump's tweets. If we take issue with Trump's "relationship to the media," it is only fair to make the case for the media's relationship to HIM, to US, and to ITSELF, in the age of NEW-media and independent journalism, where the government funded media no longer controls the one and only narrative. If the American mainstream media is what "maintains society" why has our media, in lock-step with political-pogroms completely devastated almost the entire Middle Eastern society, and large parts of the world? She wants it both ways. She condemns conservatives for waxing nostalgic or wanting to "revert" to a simpler "past," and favors "social progress," but also catastrophizes society naturally progressing toward unconventional modes on it's own. What about Obama's tweets? What about Hillary's tweets? Shall we say their tweets are "maintaining society?" For Liberals, it always comes down to what they can control. There can be no good will... no natural affection, universal justice / god's vengeance and righteous vindication. It's all about how they can assume the victim-who-seques-to-persecutor" position. Exercising freedom of expression is better than losing and suppressing it, which is what Hillary and Obama do. "WHAT IS HAPPENING TO US," is that we're getting our freedoms and future back, until proven otherwise.

[@blahpunk1]

I wouldn't call the fragmentation of the US media social progress. It is a natural response to pressure/competition in the market. It also reflects a realization about human nature and a willingness to exploit that. When the media was more monolithic mainstream news was really mainstream. Cameras, printing presses and broadcasting bandwidth cost money and the news needed to speak to a broad audience. Now because of the decreased costs of KZbin and blogs no market is too small. Even the most 'unconventional' can find an outlet that caters to them. It's become normal for people to chase the warm fuzzies associated with being told you were right all along. People are so happy with it that the whole idea of objective, credible media has been brushed aside. I think it's dangerous but it's very convenient for Trump. He never has to be concerned about lying. When the fact checking inevitably kicks in he just says 'FAKE NEWS!!!' and everyone looks the other way.

[@jamestorline5155]

Ouuu

[@rocr62]

3:05... it doesn't get any more elitist than this folks.

[@GrizzlyUM02]

I love the part at minute 32 where the interviewer who works for Canadian state tv and is fawningly interviewing someone with the standard view of Putin/Russia put forth by our government, who does not challenge any of her views or "facts" and is certainly aware that no one with an opposing view will be given an equal opportunity by CBC says with scorn, "Putin has literally taken over the media in Russia". I am a Canadian who has lived in Russia, USA and Germany and if anyone thinks our media is any less controlled than that of Russia they have been literally brainwashed by our media. Russia is not a dictatorship, it is a tilted democracy (certain parties and viewpoints have more chance of winning than others) but guess what so is Canada, Germany and the USA and the USA is in my experience the most titled and least democratic of the 4. We have a myth in the western countries including Canada of being human rights and freedom loving democracies but when have we not been at war somewhere or overthrowing some democratically elected government that we do not like usually claiming it is due to human rights but in reality because they are doing things that do not benefit our corporations. And if we uphold the rule of law and human rights protections when are we going to prosecute our war criminals for things like the Iraq War? If the rule of law does not apply to us then what moral grounds do we have to criticize others? And no one has started more wars or overthrown more governments than our western democracies but no it is Russia and China who are the bad guys, at least according to our governments and “free” media. There is a lot of money to be made bashing Putin and Russia especially if you have a Russian background like Gessen. This Russia bad, the West good is all we hear continually on our “free” media. The opposite view is never heard and if anyone posts it on a commentary they are accused of being a Putin troll. I will undoubtedly be accused of that myself by a bunch of people who unlike me have never lived under Putin or seen what an amazing transformation he made to Russia after taking it over from the chaotic, economically catastrophic and brutally repressive Yeltsin government (why has everyone forgotten the time Yeltsin mass murdered hundreds of peaceful protesters in front of the Russian parliament?). There is a reason he is still very popular in Russia.

[@blahpunk1]

Well if you *are* a Russian troll you are very industrious/ambitious. I get the impression that they get paid on quantity and not quality and rarely post anything beyond a couple of sentences. How long did you live in Russia and in what time period? Who controls the US media? Why is it good for them if no one like Putin?

[@BrettHar123]

@@blahpunk1 Strange that in Russia, someone can express a different opinion, without being called an American Troll.

[@blahpunk1]

@@BrettHar123 - When I hear someone express an opinion with so little basis in fact, it makes me believe that they are either a propagandist or a victim of a propagandist. My understanding is that Russian trolls don't write essays so I was actually expressing doubt that the poster was a troll. I was also open to the poster swaying my opinion by answering some questions but after a year that seems unlikely. How is it that you know that people posting from Russia aren't called American trolls?

[@22ergie]

Russia is an AUTOCRACY, under what rock do you reside! Dare we say bureaucratic autocracy...a "titled democracy"!? Are you effing NUTS?

[@theclash3015]

M.Gessen obsessed with Putin and Trump.

[@jessicafalstein]

you have to be to write award winning books about them.

[@odilegagnon134]

is it even journalism to ask for someone to imagine what someone's views might be???... or is it as far form fact collecting as imaginable...

[@wojtekjj1803]

The most incredible journalist. Queen of lies and defamation

[@zawiszaczarny7876]

Throwing Trump , Putin , Orban and PIS into one narrative such a low uneducated tactic ...

[@missfeliss3628]

imaginary past???? lmfao....