Marika's Full Backstory Explained (Elden Ring DLC Lore)

[@BanditGames]

Fun fact: in old English, "sc" was pronounced like "sh", so the "Scadutree" is pronounced like "Shadutree". IfI'mwrongplzbenicetome

[@segaherman_twitch]

This is cool

[@Tina93_]

I hear other reviewers read it that way. Love your vid. Interesting theory about Messmer’s potential father. I was only thinking that it might me Radagon as well.

[@formatomi]

I know the general consensus is to call it shadowtree/shadowfragment now but we dont call the Haligtree Holytree or the Erdtree Earthtree, its evident scadu is from the word shadow but im not fully convinced we have to spell it like that too

[@DirtyMike124x]

@@formatomi right there with you🛡🛡🛡

[@Prince_Sidon]

You're actually right.

[@Fragmentsinfractals488]

I feel that Radagon and Marika are like St. Trina and Miquella. Like St. Trina is Miquella's "Love". So, Radragon is an aspect of Marika broken off so she could become a God. But everything eventually will move to recombined back together. So, when Radragon merges back, He will become the God Marika became by losing him.

[@pilebunker420]

I think they are 2 different shamans that melded and/or unmelded. The symbols in the forehead of the jar people are very similar to radagon's and marika's seal overlapped. Marika also has some words of "defiance" for Radagon in the base game about "you're not yet me" or something similar

[@donovan4222]

@@pilebunker420the Japanese word for the shamans is “shrine maidan” and it’s heavily implied they are a matriarchal society. So there might not be male shamans.

[@Fragmentsinfractals488]

@@pilebunker420 Remember when Aspects are removed to "become God" , they become "Separate Persons" . See St.Trina wanting Miquella to be ended. Which means Radragon can act opposed to Marika and still be of the same Essence.

[@donovan4222]

It’s definitely possible but that wouldn’t explain why Radagon can have children with Marika. You can explain Radagon and Rennala’s children yMarika just using Radagon’s body to marry Renala. But it would be a bit weird if she could have children with herself… but then again Millicent’s quest line shows that creating some kind of clone/off shoot of another person without parents is possible in Elden ring. Perhaps there is something special about Radagon and Marika’s children specifically (Malenia, Miquella, Melina, Mesmer)

[@Fragmentsinfractals488]

@@donovan4222 Oh, They are separate persons and when Aspects are removed, they have separate Bodies. So, no trouble there. One becomes Two, later becomes One again. They just have the Same Soul Essence.

[@mt2r-music]

I just realized that the omen are being treated the way they are due to Marikas history with the horsent. This whole chapter 4 part is stunning. Using her tormentors own power to achieve godhood, bathing her new world in light while condemning the hornsents world in shadow and then stealing the rune of death to make them suffer eternally by her own sons hand, thus creating the curse of the omen. Although I still don’t get how she achieved godhood to begin with. Why weren’t the hornsents able to do that themselves but a random shaman was? Did it have to do something with the two fingers helping her?

[@mt2r-music]

I also wonder why the area the Shaman Village is located in is called ”Hinterland“. Why is it in German? I’m a German myself so is it one of those situations where it’s just a word the English language decided to use for itself like with Kindergarten for example? Or does it have lore significance?

[@plebmcpleb5761]

​@@mt2r-music It's a loan word the English language uses!

[@mt2r-music]

@@plebmcpleb5761thanks!

[@sirnonsense5033]

First of its not just the hornsend I think its also the serpent. In the trailer we see her with a serpent armband. Just like er having 2-3 children connected to them like she has 2 omens. I think the serpent is an aspect ( or born) of the crucible as the immortal serpent tries to eat the gods and the world to make all one again. As for why se ended it all? Loosing the villiage damaged her ( in Trauma). Yes she took revenge but her past catched up to her. Her children became what she wanted to run away from. She had to even abandon them or rip their eyes out. Lastly she wanted to create a world in which she didnt have to loose anyone anymore which is why she sealed death. But even that didnt work out for her. Her first Husband lost his Grace making him Banished and her only Perfect Son died even with all she did to make it impossible. She completly lost Faith in the Order and in the Greater will likely. She probably didnt want to end it all she just wanted to end herself. Im not sure what Rabadons part is in all tat but he seemed to use and push her to godhood cuz he wanted it himself.

[@CodexisInkwind]

So my working theory on why it didn't work for the hornsent is that the crucible is just a raw power source with no outer God attached to it. This is dependent on the Hornsent having made the divine gate in the first place which is also questionable. But, if the crucible has no outer God attached, then there was no active force to elevate them the way the Greater Will elevated Marika to God hood via the gate and the fingers. Also, an interesting detail that leans more into it being solely due to the greater will, the divine gate takes the shape of the uppermost rune of the Elden Ring. The part that looks like crucifix made of a rune arch on top with a line straight down. It is the shape Marika is literally mimicking in her prison state when we come to her, and it is the void space making up the divine gate. The straight line up with the arch on top.

[@plebmcpleb5761]

The shape of the Divine Gate is very reminiscent of a crucible. If you look at the negative space, it looks like light being poured out of a bowl of some kind... Or metal being poured out of a crucible.

[@donovan4222]

It looks a lot like the entrance to the erdtree in Leyndell

[@gunnarrobinson5554]

It also looks like marikas seal. What could this imply???

[@Gilgamoth]

Two fingers as well

[@player_name_here]

It's also like the thing behind Gaius.

[@VictorIV0310]

I wonder if that specific Hornsent who said these cruel words to the shamans in Bonny Village lived long enough to be subject to similar cruelties by Messmer’s crusaders when they invaded. I don’t know how long Hornsent lived but assuming he lived to see the crusade take place, I can only imagine it shifting from him whipping shamans with tooth whips and shoving them in jars like it's an ordinary day to him being captured by the crusaders before enduring days of being beaten and branded by serpent flails while being yelled at with slurs and obscenities by them such as being “Graceless scum” who’s only purpose is to be hunted, dehorned, impaled and burned before being forced to march alongside fellow Hornsent who’ve been rounded up, beaten, branded and dehorned to a furnace golem that has yet to come to life. As the Hornsent are being pushed and crammed inside the golem to the point where’s it’s getting hard to breathe, they are given a speech by a Black Knight captain who says that though they are graceless vermin with no place in the order, their lives will at least serve one purpose: as kindling for their holy crusade. The Hornsent suddenly reminisces on those shamans back in Bonny Village and realizes that he has become a victim to the same cruelties he inflicted on them. However, he has no time to think of his current predicament as the crusaders set the golem aflame and the screams of countless Hornsent and the stench of their burning flesh fill the air as the golem comes to life. So ends the life of one Hornsent among thousands, now used to fuel a lifeless machine of death and murder as it marches onto the battlefield. And so, the crusade continues.

[@wojciechmazurk5468]

Based. Its shame not all Hornsent were killed , there are still some in land of shadow or Bonny village

[@richardrussel4567]

Sounds like you wrote this with one hand.

[@donovan4222]

@@wojciechmazurk5468You realize that Hornsent also threw there own people in the jars and many of them had nothing to do with what happened to Marika?

[@L_Zant]

Wow everyone come look at the freak type out dumb crap. Wtf dude get therapy.

[@Epistolary8]

I too, enjoy reading torture porn.

[@falgalhutkinsmarzcal3962]

I was of a mind that Radagon was a mimic tear, but now I think he is Marika's discarded Faith in the GW, much like how St Trina is Miquella's discarded Love. This might be why she calls him "leal hound of the GO" and why she gives a speech speaking of no longer relying on "blind faith" in their future.

[@garethlawton5278]

Miquella had to discard his body and other self because he was Golden Order made. Marika was not, she didn't need to do this because she wanted a godhood of the Golden Order (Greater Will). Miquella wanted a new order, it's why he divested himself of all things Golden... Marika had no intention of this, she wouldn't have done the same. It is not a required step to becoming a god, it was just a step Miquella took to ensure there was no Greater Will involved in his godhood (which is what ruined Marikas because the fingers are broken).

[@falgalhutkinsmarzcal3962]

@@garethlawton5278 she calls Radagon her "other self". St Trina is Miquella's other self, too. Hence the androgyny. They are each the Rebis of their distinct Orders. Whether or not it was crucial to discard all or only part of their bodies has no bearing, especially since St Trina is Miquella's Love, not a part of his body, but his other self, just as Radagon is part of Marika without necessarily being part of her body. There is a big difference here.

[@rumorcontrol7873]

I don't think that Marika wed herself to Godfry until well after she had become a God and it was this mysterious Serpent entity who keeps popping up that was her original Lord Consort as she became a god

[@donovan4222]

Isn’t Godfrey defeating the giants what allowed Marika to create the erdtree? Not disagreeing but she must of met Godfrey pretty early,

[@liarwithagun]

​@donovan4222 No, she 8nvades the giant because they ha e the power to burn the Erdtree, which already existed by that point.

[@ittorasetsuxx8077]

@@donovan4222she created the erdtree when she became god

[@FeelTehPOWA]

i agree! except i theorize that before she became a god she became a saint (through following the hornsent until she reaches the gate) and consort to the snake. I believe thats maybe when she betrayed everyone, kills the snake and robs its grace or godhood (? sometimes i think maybe she used Radagon as consort bait

[@rumorcontrol7873]

@@FeelTehPOWA It seems likely that Marika instead turned the whips against her captors before she could be stuffed into the jar herself and Radagon is likely the part of herself that craved an Ordered life while Marika craved a Golden one. I'm interested to know when Marika learned she could create a child with herself via Radagon? Because the story suggests it was Just before Radagon and Renalla's unnamed 4th child was born, but then where did Messmer and Melina come from? I think they might be the children of this first serpentine union and Messmer more resembles his father the Blasphemous Serpent who Rykard ended up adopting as his family. It makes sense because there is a giant shed serpent skin in Marika's home village that has the same model as the on in Rykards castle.

[@GTD_Galatea]

There's a theory which states that the Land of Shadow and the Lands-Between were once part of the same landmass, but became separated due to Marika sealing the Land of Shadow after ascending to godhood. This theory also states that Leyndell was once connected to the ancient ruins of Rauth by a massive bridge which started at the divine bridge in the southwestern part of the city.

[@ScreamingSnipe9]

Where can we find this theory? I would like to hear more about it!

[@markiefoo]

Also the suppressing pillar is said to be at the centre of lands between

[@lavishlyvice]

To add on to that: When you overlap the SotE map with the base game map, the little tree Marika planted in Hinterland also lines up with the Erdtree. And the upper edge of the SotE map (ruins of Rauh) slots almost perfectly into the southern edge of the Altus Plateu/Leyendell where it's breaking off into the ocean.

[@randyleerandyleerandylee]

Her removal of the rune of death to punish the hornsent eternally is great. Great lore video. There’s still so much of this story to tell. I want a sequel damnit.

[@yaibaone]

When we think that the Nox are Numen a few things start to make sense. We know that the lands of shadow didn't use to be disconnected. Maybe she saved them and told them to create a world underground to protect them from the hornsent. She then said they committed a sin to make interaction with her kin something like treason to deter trespassers.

[@virginiaorlowski1433]

It looks to me as if the Gate of Divinity was the true goal of the flesh jars. The hornsent used bodies for bricks and shrine maidens for mortar. They were creating a place for one of their own to achieve divinity, and perhaps the creation of a god was originally a mutual goal of the hornsent and shrine maidens, but after that alliance morphed into a genocide, Marika simply ascended first and put a stop to it.

[@Sylentmana]

The woman in the portrait with Midra has spiral braids and Marika leaves a spiral braid at the statue in Bonny village. Could they be the same person?

[@forkbundle3073]

oooooh! "Have mercy. For the spirited-away shamans." is her wish! I like that!

[@t-mango2491]

17:41 the woman in the tree. It’s an offering to the grandmother, that would be the presumably petrified woman in the tree, it’s a common concept in faith to have a person die such that a tree bearing fruit may grow, and that’s probably what’s happening here, based on the fact they have an entire separate culture up there, shaman are spiritualists, and it is likely that corpse is the shrine referred to by marika’s proper title “shrine maiden” in the Japanese

[@agm5424]

In the last of ziostorm's video it was shown that there's a huge shedded snake skin that can be found in shaman village that looks similar to the snake skin that can be found in the arena were we fight the Godskinn noble in Volcano Manor. There's no explanation why it's there. My only guess is that it may have been planned to be part of an abandoned storyline that may explain the origin of Marika's aversion to snakes.

[@falgalhutkinsmarzcal3962]

If we look at Dominula, the dancing women have skinned and burned men, piling them up as if to mold them into masses like they do in Bonny village, and there is a Godskin apostle there. As we know from the Church of Eiglay, the Godskins are connected to the Great Serpent. The snakeskin is a symbol of rejuvenation through death, and the maidens of Dominula are trying to rejuvenate the Lands Between. It is also not a coincidence that Dominula is a windmill village, the windmill being a symbol for cyclical change that grinds grains into meal, ridding it of the grist.

[@fortello7219]

4:25 It can also be theorized that Radagan was originally part of Marika, and was split off and tossed aside like St. Trina was. (Assuming that Miquela basically recreated the extract scenario that led to Marika's ascension) Then this dialogue is about becoming one with the _new_ godly Marika. As it seems strange that she would even tell anyone, including the target, that she can merge with someone and become them.

[@leeanncomeau8930]

Just a theory based on naming conventions, what if she became known as Marika the Eternal, not only because she removed the rune of death and death itself from the Lands Between, but also (adding to your theory about succesfully saving shamans) built the Eternal Cities for the Shamans/Numen/Nox that she saved. I don't remember if these cities sank, or were purposely built underground. If it was intentionally underground, perhaps it was done to protect them further.

[@wynterwyndigo1896]

You should 100% check out the theory that Midra and Nanaya are Marika’s parents. I think it’s relevant because that would Marika half-hornsent. Since the Hornsent claim they were “betrayed” by Marika, wouldn’t there have to be an alliance to betray in the first place?

[@wynterwyndigo1896]

I forgot to say her being half-hornsent is what might’ve allowed her to gain trust

[@lukasdfields]

I think Marika was at one point at the head of the Horncent civilization. You find statues of her all over Enir Elim which is still predominantly populated by the Horncent. You can tell this is her because another one of these statues is present in Castle Ensis being prayed to by one of Messmer’s soldiers, praying that Marika would grant Messmer grace. I also think at one point she was communing with a God that they worshipped that we don’t know but can be seen in other statues in Enir Elim with a massive horned crown. There are also statues depicting a male and female figure together wrapped in a horned spiral, I would imagine this is the two mentioned above. This as well as the trailer dialogue mentioning a “seduction” is what leads me to believe that Marika was communing with this other God at some point during the Horncent civilization’s reign.

[@garethlawton5278]

Messmers father is Radagon. As he follows the naming scheme for children from that pairing. Messmer, Melina, Miquella and Melania. Kids from the other paring between Radagon and Renalla are R names. Kids from the Godfrey pairing are G names. They wouldn't have secured a naming scheme in the game, then shown us two kids with M names and said they're Radagons kids to then thrown an unnamed person begining with M to father Messmer and Melina. Radagon is most likely the father. This would confirm Radagon was around alot earlier than the liurnia wars, but was only brought into the forefront and into history's eyes at that time.

[@mistrants2745]

27:00 nah that doesnt seem to line up with the timeline. 1. he already has the marika sealed eye in the trailer when he burns and ravages Belurat. 2. it is heavily implied he was either born with the serpent or it was actively sealed into him by Marika herself.

[@JeremyUnck]

I was just watching through the cutscenes and noticed how Godfrey the grafted severed his arm so that the dragon head would attach to it. I wonder if Godfrey is able to do that because he is from Merikas line which would adhere to other corpse/flesh

[@t-mango2491]

15:46 there is quite literally a male shaman ghost at the village, both words refer to the same group because the terms are gendered.

[@ilejovcevski79]

Although at times circumstantial, most of your conclusions seem largely inline with what is presented in the game through lore drops. Except for two continuity/chorological issues, one of which you mention yourself in the captions, that being the curse of Messmer. The other is of course, the sealing of the run of death. We can't for certain establish when each of these took place, but many of their mentions in the lore drops, seem to imply they don't coincide with the great war mentioned in the story trailer. Even with the words of the old Grandam, she cursed Marika after the deed was done. When exactly, we can't tell. But at the very earliest it was after the great shadowing and the burning crusade. That means, at the earliest, it would affect the children born after the establishment of the Golden Order, but not before. So not Messmer. And most likely not Melina. UNLESS, there was a huge gap of time, in which Marika ruled in the lands between, while the shadow lands were left largely untouched. Which the trailer doesn't seem to imply. Also, the absence of Messmer and Melina from the line of succession of the empyreans, seem to indicate that their very existence were either kept secret or shunned from the Golden Order. Regarding the Golden Order and the Rune of Death, most narratives (in the base game) seem to imply that it was removed after or at the very least during the Order's establishment, which seems to be a long drawn-out affair, with wars against dragons, giants and what-not. So after the creation of the Tree and the Ring themselves. Finally, the lands of Shadow seem burnt, and devoid of most life, even Hornsent. What remains of most of them, are charred spirits, yes, charred, but spirits none the less. Unlike the shambling corpses of the traveling nobles in the Lands Between. So i don't think this is a form if immortality meant as a punishment. At least not related to the Rune of Death. Mostly just a tortured afterlife as a result of great suffering they endured, in a universe where life and death can so often trade places.

[@samf.s.7731]

We really have no idea about what the actual seduction and betrayal are 😂 can only speculate! Thanks Michael Zaki!

[@tajdaffa1526]

Marika and Radagon had 4 child

[@redrillz22]

I haven’t even completed the DLC but I can honestly say Elden ring is literally the only game that I have no problem with when it comes to spoilers the more I understand the more I want to play

[@user-ddgsrjl]

Great video and great explanation for a lot of stuff in the DLC. But there is one thing I've been wondering for quite some time now and suprisingly it seems that no one really talked about yet. Or at least, I haven't seen any videos or discussions about this topic about Marikas seduction, betrayal and what her connections with the Fingers (and in turn Greater Will) is. To me the location of Shaman Village is very interesting since it seems to be quite secluded and strangly close to the Finger Ruins of Dheo. So isn't it possible that Marika, in a desperate attempt to save her people found Metyr (which we learned was the first shooting star to fall upon the Lands Between) and made a deal/pact to gain power and followers to go against the Hornsent. Maybe she even stumbled upon Metyr on accident and got seduced by her by promising Marika revenge and a better future. Marika realised her mistake and later in a another desperate attempt shattered the ring and tried to bring it all down to try and remove the influence of the Fingers and Greater Will that she was responsible for. This would also explain what Count Ymir told us.

[@astel_xviii]

3:21 me who got that very tattoo a few months ago: yes, yes it totally does.

[@DarkHeroGamePlay]

I have been watching your videos for a good minute now. I'm glad to see you covering Elden ring, as I moved from Zelda to Elden ring myself LMFAO, love the video Keep it up, please! :D Also I'm interested to know more about the connection between Melina and the Gloam Eyed Queen.

[@KUWAITGRIPSVEVO]

My headcannon will always be that radagon was a half giant warrior with the fell god within him, and he and marika were tooth-whipped into flesh slurry and combined in a jar. Together they seduced Godfrey, lord of the divine bird kingdom of the erdtree and home of the crucible, become god and took over the world

[@SparkTheDad]

Also have a theory on the pots in the lands between that Marika turns them into an almost form of reward for great warriors to be congealed into pot warriors as a way to turn her back on the horrors that were done to her people inside the pots in the land of shadow.

[@Duh___jaqui]

Ngl my brian kept on focesing on the Legend Of Zelda: Breath Of The Wild soundtrack in the background but oh my gosh this really helped in explning somethings I had questions on from the DLC and link a lot of things up. 😺

[@benruniko]

Honestly i dont blame Merika for what she did before the shattering. Except for the child abuse, its all understandable.

[@mikesulyvahn7143]

The hornsent tutelarism is similar to how buddist monks achieve nirvana and are worshipped in monastery temples after they have been mummified and therefore dead. Almost exactly similar to what hornsent do.

[@Wintertier]

Pretty sure Radagon was a part of Marika, that she ejected and later remerged with. She seperated herself from Radagon as Miquella did from Saint Trina. Otherwise it would make no sense to „adopt“ Ranni, Radahn and Rykard. And since we have the example with Miquella that something like that is possible, I‘ve become team Radagon always has been part of marika but has been his own person for some time until she called him back. Makes more sense in the bigger picture.

[@tylermatthew378]

"would make a pretty cool tattoo i would think" me looking down at my arm "neat" also, radagon is the shed body of marika. she cast out her body like miqulla and ranni did. her entire being is spiritual and radagon is her physical body. she wanted to rejoin with radagon so she can become mortal for us to kill. so yes they are two seperate beings but he only exists from her cast out flesh. we know this because thats what st.trina is, shes miquillas cast out flesh.

[@user-cw5jv8kg9l]

What if Radagon is actually a mimic tear that fusioned with marika, like in that cut content quest. When marika ist a numen and the numens are actually the nox then i feel like that theory might be plausible. It kind of also explains the egg of rennala and why you can reshape yourself with it i feel like :D and then the radagon is marika thing kind of feels understandable

[@josephdellavecchia7828]

I believe Marika's seduction was related to the the hornsent and some kind of promise to bring them to divinity. The Betrayal was after they helped or were sacrificed to help her ascend, the unending crusade on them

[@trolliffy115]

I have a feeling godwyn was cursed in a way we don't know yet. Or it could just be his fate to die and become at thing we see in the main game.

[@nerobiblios4086]

Personally, I believe Marika and Radagon are the same person, much like Miquella and St. Trina. It's basically Radagon is to Marika as St.Trina is to Miquella. The other half of the original person they essentially separated in order to ascend into Godhood. Because it seems like a prerequisite to ascend into Godhood is stripping yourself of parts of the whole. St. Trina literally exists in physical form at the same time as Miquella, Marika who'se significantly more powerful would in turn have someone of equal existence as they both used the almost the same method.

[@HarshitSinghRajput]

Hey, Last time I commented asking If you were going to play Genshin Impact anytime in future (Around the time when you had made the announcement that BanditGames will be just renamed to Bandit; Its BanditGames again for some reason) and you had replied to me that you will play the game here on this channel instead of Bandt Jo, but you never played it and I thought you don't wanna play it anymore and I wanted to respect that. But Just saying that Genshin is going to release pyro nation 'Natlan' in a few weeks and it is hype. Fontaine (Hydro Nation) was already peak and Natlan is looking even more hype. So just informing you incase you wanna hop in for some story, If you don't wanna play it then its fine, I respect that. Hoping for a reply soon.

[@tarnished-ml3fr3jq8w]

Marika's floral shaman village in DLC reminds me of Dominula, Windmill Village... Also, the DLC talk about the soft supple skin of shamans makes me think of Godskins / skinpeeling.

[@chandlerholloway3900]

Awesome video! I really like your analysis and theories. I think it’s Count Ymir who gives us a clue of the “seduction and the betrayal” in the beginning by Metyr, the Mother of Fingers, selling snake oil with the idea of the Greater Will to Marika. Marika’s shaman people were being persecuted, flayed alive, mashed together with other corpses, and stuffed into jars and they couldn’t protect themselves from the hornsent. They seem like a naturally peaceful society. I think after witnessing all of the atrocities of her people, Marika was ambitious enough for a way out, and for a way to inflict retribution on the hornsent. Marika being an Empyrean, was granted an audience with Metyr. Whether Marika sought her out or “accidentally” found her is up for debate. But I believe Metyr showed Marika the power and the order of the Greater Will and offered a way out, but there was a catch. What Marika didn’t know, is that Metyr was actually abandoned by her father The Greater Will, or perhaps the Greater Will is actually dead. The idea of Marika and the Fingers using a dead gods powers sounds chilling to me. So Marika, following Metyr’s outdated instruction, takes the gold strands, ascends to the Divine Gate, uses the powers of the Golden Order from a dead god, but in its place are the other Outer Gods in the vast cosmos who answer, and I believe that when Marika stepped through the Divine Gate she exposed herself to them and their influence. Which is possibly why her children are cursed or greatly influenced by other Outer Gods. Especially the ones she makes by herself with Radagon, since shaman flesh perfectly melds together with others, it makes sense that they can attach themselves to her children’s bodies. The Dragon Elden Lord was also abandoned by its god, and it waits for a response in the same twisted neck position as the fingers of Metyr. Perhaps because it is dead, there is an Outer God war being waged out in the vast cosmos for dominance.

[@TheMackMamba]

Marika is the one who wounded metyr the mother of fingers, taking its connection to the greater will and using it to become a god. Thats what we see in the trailer.

[@MrBoBoBo]

I think the lore on the new pot abominations remind me of the graven school masses. Just a conglomeration of bodies/souls

[@michaelhidalgo124]

I honestly thought she had waged two separate wars against the hornsent first with her husband and the knights in order to become Devine, and a second war after her the curse on her children was revealed thru her first born

[@TLPWRlifter]

The hornsent deserved everything they got. Hell... Even marikas subjugation of the omen makes sense to a certain degree because as the woman in the DLC stated it's in their nature to conquer. And it's not like she was horrible to the omen especially when you consider how horrifically the hornsent treated her people.

[@KarlaGarcia-ld6mv]

When they first showed Marika throught Elden ring before the DLC I was like there's always 2 sides of the stories. The other questions where why did she hid her 2 horned children and the other is why numan people are rare. How she is connected to the Numan assassins in the Black Knives.Then the DLC explained everything first thought was the people who hated Marika started to sympathized for her she was victim. The reason she never brought up her origin was because she was traumatized what happened to her people and what was still happening during her prime. Even though she finished wiping out the hornset in the Land of shadow there was no one left. So she left and never talked and only a select few know about the land of shadow. She saw how the Golden order was and she ended up having both her horned children and ended up putting them in the sewers out of protection because she was reliving her past again. Yes Marika had done shitty things but if you think about it was a human being and victim.

[@ElishaMunnerlyn]

I like his ending that’s all she wrote remind me of the Chakus Demus song

[@Xeymaric]

I think Godwyn was cursed too. That curse was just not explicit, as the fate to die

[@PapaBoneyinVR]

Twins have a higher chance of producing twins, marika, produced two sets of twins, does marika have a twin?

[@Kapption]

Well done

[@Sabien]

Does thse pots look more like ... Pots for trees at all? Thinking out loud here, shamans seesm to have an afinity for runes and making these trees. The first tree died..right? Then the erdtree came along and it was made from Mikila. So in the hornstribe attempt to create god hood, one way was a new tree and the shamans were pervieved to be the seeds?

[@AngelofGrace96]

I do think Messmer was cursed from birth, and that's why Marika felt so comfortable using him as a general and then completely abandoning him in the land of shadow. She just never saw him as a full son.

[@georgerolandallen]

I don't think grandam is an empyrean. I think she's a caretaker, grandmother figure to the empyreans

[@johnminet9067]

What I still haven’t worked out is why did Ranni killed Godwin?

[@bluedragon6226]

I actually believe another: I think Godwyn was Marika's firstborn. Think this - Marika receives a status of God, makes partnership with The Greater Will and starts a new era of Gold with her brand new husband Hoarah Loux, and brings into the world a precious golden child - the image of Marika's herself - Godwyn the Golden, possessing golden locks, wielding her incantations, defending Leyndell from Gransax, defeating and befriending Fortissax, starting a partnership with Lansseax, granting the power of lightning to Golden Order's knights and soldiers. I think Godwyn is the only child of Marika she ever truly loved and valued, honestly. Then war with fire giants struck, since they possessed a flame capable of burning the Erdtree (and I believe it is not something Marika decided herself, but was hinted on by the Two Fingers). Marika commands her husband, Hoarah Loux, to go genocide all fire giants, and he has no problem with that due to his battle lust. Giants are all gone, only one last remains, cursed and forced into a painful lonely existence for a crime of being born into a fire giant tribe. And i think this is where Messmer's and Melina's birth takes place. Slaying all fire giants Marika inflicted upon herself a curse, which cause her to birth two red-headed children, one after another, and they both have to do things with fire, both being kindlings for burning the Erdtree (I believe this is how the giant's flames manifested themselves in the world, since everything of it's original owners was destroyed). She was horrified, plucked the eye of her own son and placed her scarseal on it's place, and still that wasn't enough. She sent her defected son on a holy crusade, to wield a war with hornsent in her name, causing another massive bloody genocide, inflicting on herself another curse - an omen curse. After that I beieve Morgott and Mogwyn were born, covered in horns and crushing Marika mentally even more, so she locked them in the capital sewers. I'm not sure what could've caused the birth defects of Malenia and Miquella, haven't played the full dlc yet and yet to go to more dungeons, explore more places and read more descriptions! This is the theory I composed with my knowledge

[@mep1455]

We have seen no Numen males but Radagons children inherited the Numen ability to merge with other beings. Miquella and St Trina told us that Marika and Radagon are the same person which Marika split herself from. We all have our own shadow but the Numen can actually manifest them as their own beings. St Trina changes when she is split from Miquella and starts to wilt without him as well as becoming a darker purple with other properties. I think Radagon had to go back because they started to wilt without being one being. When Miquella dies so does St Trina.

[@deliii395]

No I believe Radagon is a part of Marika that she separated from. After the line "thou yet to become me" marika clearly says that's her other self. Also radagon being a separate person is so much more boring and uninteresting than the weirdness & depth of Marika splitting of from her own self and having children.

[@majisekrum41]

And this is why i decided not to kill jars in the game :,(

[@zaphael7238]

Everyone see red hair and assumes Radagon, but I think the seduction that is mentioned in the game is quite literal. She seduced Messmer and Melina’s father or fathers being called a strumpet by the old Hornsent might have not just been an insult. All of Marika’s offspring that we know of are cursed except Godwyn. I think that her bearing two Omen children is what forced Marika to forsake Godfrey and choose Radagon as he was a great warrior and perhaps an Empyrean himself? He produced three physically normal children one being chosen by the Two Fingers as an Empyrean. Marika takes Radagon as her Consort and the they sire two children together and the problem of lineage is discover to not lie in Marika’s mates but with the Queen herself. Ranni kills Godwyn and her physical body and the golden lineage ends, Marika’s only perfectly healthy child is gone and she only has two possible successors in the form of a rotting princess and a forever prepubescent son both of which will never ascend to godhood. In her despair she shatters herself and her merging with Radagon is incomplete. Somewhere before all this Messmer is sent on the Crusade to wipe out the Hornsent/exiled. Perhaps the idea of Ranni and Godwyn’s potential marriage is not a so far fetched theory. It would explain how Messmer and Radahn became close, their siblings were to be wed? I also think Radagon was a way of controlling Marika perhaps he was so compatible and yet strong enough to not be pushed around by her, his dogmatic belief in the Order brought about by the greater will/Elden Beast didn’t allow for her to plot her own coup? Perhaps her words ‘thou hast yet to become me’ was more a you haven’t erased me yet I still hold more power than you in this merging? Hence why Marika is crucified and Radagon works tirelessly to repair himself and Marika? I also wonder if Rennala holding onto Radagon’s egg/rune was him promising to return to her and replace Marika with Rennala as his wife/consort?

[@AdityaMaheshwari-sq2tp]

I think they were trying to create mending runes.. As we have collected many mending runes which are created from the life or process specific to the characters such as Dungeater or some other tarnished so maybe the shamans were tarnished all along and hornsent bitches were trying to create mending runes so that they themselves can ascend to god-hood or lord-hood.. I am high as a kite

[@andresramos310]

Who imprisoned Marika? Isn’t she like one of the strongest gods in the lands between?

[@futurewolfjackson1628]

What are those strands of hair that Marika is pulling out of the flesh sac?

[@Hemoclysm]

What if grandam hates marika bc shes "grandmother" from the golden braid and marika gifted it to get close to the divine tower.

[@daniellassander]

Here is what i believe, i think Marika was a child of the jars so belowed by the hornsent, in that jar were also a snake and a giant and a man. Her first child Messmer was born from the snake part of her, Radagon was a mix of the man and the giant thus the red hair. The seduction was the corpse of a dragon which held the binding threads of the elden ring, the fabric binding the runes together as a whole, that was the seduction, the seduction of power, and the betrayal was Marika turning on the hornsent who viewed her as divine, holy a saint. She used Radagon to have children when she didnt have a husband, but she later found one who could not produce good children with her and seeing the promise of Radhan she later choose Radagon as the father of her children. But there were politics involved with this obviously as she wanted power, i dont think she wanted Horath Loux romantically, not Radagon, they were simply tools to her ends which is why she is called a strumpet she slept with anyone who could further her own ends. That ties most of it together pretty neatly and explains most of it too.

[@segaherman_twitch]

This game is so popular on twitch right now

[@laurencematthews6907]

Doesn’t it make more sense that marina had an affair with one of this hornsent to discover how to open the gate and become a god. Hence why she has children with horns and is ashamed of them

[@Luis-sz7tn]

Who is kneeling by fire in dlc? Who or what is the serpent marika sticks her hand in? Gloam eyed queen wueen is melina wheres the story between her and marika? Who was in stormfall castle when marika was in shaman village?

[@demonintellect9834]

Where was Radagon during any of this and why does he exist? If he were a separate person then that goes against the fact Miquella and Trina were never 2 people. Is it just a special power of Marika and Miquella to have both a male and female form? I thought it might be an aspect of becoming a god and Radagon was "born" after she ascended to godhood, but then why did Saint Trina exist before Miquella became a god?

[@fuyu2097]

Just curious, can Melina be Messmer and Rellana's daughter?

[@pajeetsingh]

Better lore videos than Vaati? Oh wow.

[@Batman_83]

How do people ignore what the game clearly shows and clearly tells us just to have a theory that Radagon was separate? Like how can anyone be so willfully ignorant of the proof given? Other than Disney or WB that is.

[@nemesisundead83]

I've been thinking about Marika's grandmother, the albs have a "mother" like figure we take latenna to, could that be considered a grandmother to them? They are descents of the numen why not take up one of their worshipping ideas just a guess

[@ProfessorJester69]

lets begin. I think marika's betrayal is her becoming a god. to the hornsent, a shaman becoming a god? gross. they are to be saints not gods. the seduction is her stripping her humanity/shaman and lying with god itself, being one of the same. I think radagon is mequilla's st.trina. i swear this dlc explains everything about marika once you realize mequilla is marika. everything mequilla has done so did marika. mequilla stripped st.trina because he knew she would get in the way, just as marika did to radagon. however, you can never get rid of yourself truly and radagon returned. it was her pride, like mequilla's love. marika knew the whole time what ragadan was doing, even knew about marrying ranala. she knew she couldnt win, so she did a different strategy. She was ok with radagon going to royal lucaria to marry ranala because she wanted to make ranala vulnerable. once ranala was weakened and drunken with love, marika shed off godfrey and boom, made radagon return. i truly believe radagon did love ranala and that is why he gave her his rune. marika was tired of what her people were going through, so i think she gathered up the numens, no longer shaman, prayed to their figure head, and moved out to make marika a god and torture the hornsent. i believe the gloom eye queen is melina. one her eye is a crow talon... death...destined death black flames.. mesmer and as it is stated "his younger sister" saw the vision of flames... melina is marika's daughter... like cmon shes most def the gloom eyed queen. hell, even in the dlc radahn is betrayed very similar to godfrey which is fitting. he obviously didnt want to be a consort to mequilla, hes younger brother. mequilla obvious betrayed radahn, killed him and his sister to get what he wants, betrayed and manipulated mogh, took his body and revived radahn to be his consort by force.....if that isnt the most marika thing then idk what is... hell, it is betrayed as he walks with long GOLDEN HAIR which is similar to marika. the dlc explains marika and everything once you start placing everything. hell the ruins for the fingermother is right next to that shaman village....your telling me marika didnt get the idea of being a god from her, aka the 2 fingers. she is the duaghter of the greater will. first star beast to hit. before the elden beast, the elden ring itself.... its my theory though lolol

[@HarutTheBest]

My most loved Elden Ring Lore creator! Hugs and kisses from Moscow!!

[@c_y_a_9081]

Total hornsent death

[@Nihil847]

I hate that they added an another serpent and never explained why snakes are bad. It made sense with the world devouring serpent but it doesn’t make sense when Marika has serpent bracelets and the stone coffins have snakes on them.

[@WobblesandBean]

30:30 There's nothing in the game that refers that Ranni murdered Godwyn. Ranni only made the Black knives, the ones who actually did the deed were closely related to Marika herself. Plus, she went to the very same forge the black knives were created to make the hammer that shattered the elden ring.

[@FezTheMoose]

I didnt like killing Rahdan the first time, wont like doing it this second time. And i dont like the fact that i killed Mesmer.

[@e3IZrZ]

Suppose to be about Marika, basically became a lore video about races in Elden Ring, never heard Crucible said more in my life. Thank you, but got a little worn out with all the extra unnecessary details.

[@mohammedamin1995]

Marika was f***ing!

[@idot0861]

i think the most prominent thing i learned from this vid is that the Hornsent are the Elden Ring equivalent of the KKK

[@dsteddd6087]

So what are golden threads from cinematic ?

[@soul.mortem]

Ik super random, but can someone tell me what theme that is in the background when he talks about the crucible at 10:00

[@ShadeStormXD]

with the talk of messmers base serpent and the crimes of bonny village, im kinda surprised you did even mentioned the eiglay shed snake skin in the north of the village

[@codafett]

The way I see it, Marika did nothing wrong

[@ouroborosnexus]

Could be that the greater will seduced Marika and betrayed the Hornsent

[@asd44688]

It makes a lot of sense since one of the motif for elden ring was early christianity in rome. Marika is jesus, and hornsents are ancient jewish people lol

[@Frogboyaidan]

😢

[@notciri]

Messmer wasn't cursing his mother when he said what he said, he was talking about the curse itself

[@Lansone31]

What? He was talking to her.

[@ct2136]

Just noticed Marika named all her cursed kids after herself with an M, while the healthy kids are named after the healthy spouse, either Godfrey or Rennala.

[@bobjim245]

This comment is underrated

[@ajayghale9215]

radagon starts with an R too and marika probably let godfrey name his first born son after himself to honor him for his service. i think your theory is partially true tho i think she didn't consider morgott and mohg as worthy enough to hold a name that indicates they are part of the golden lineage like godwyn and godrick.

[@arkcantoscreampsnpc7274]

I’ve always felt a lot of marika’s actions in the base game felt weird for a god like being, but finding out she basically entered a slave contract with the greater will in exchange for the safety of her loved ones (getting rid of death) after her people were slaughtered changes a lot. It makes her going 0-100 immediately on her sons death make a lot more sense. She basically viewed the greater will as having lied to her and betrayed her by letting him die

[@abdieljove2011]

DLC literally confirms the Greater Will has nothing to do with…almost anything and people out here still don’t get it lol Not trying to be a smartass. I’m not even talking about you in particular. Just…in general. Do every quest, people. The Greater Will sent down Metyr the Mother of Fingers, sent down the Elden Beast, then effed off after having sent the means to ensure order. We know this was as early as the era of the dragons. It’s been long gone by the time of Marika. Metyr went insane after being unable to contact the Greater Will for ages. She was the one speaking to the fingers in the Greater Will’s stead. And she guided Marika. Likely trying to impose order so the Greater Will came back. We can even say the Golden Order is the…combination of that. Marika’s first incantation (forgot the actual name) is described as having only the kindness of Gold, without the Order. Marika must have made a deal with Metyr and was guided by the fingers to achieve godhood, only for it to be too late to help her people after she ascended. So she instead turns to vengeance on the Hornsent and anything Crucible related, while trying to create a world of order and boundless life where she’ll never lose anything again, only to go mad once Godwyn dies.

[@McDudes]

@@abdieljove2011 Also I think Metyr imprissoned Marika after she removed the rune of death. But that would imply that Metyr and the Elden Beast was working together? 🤔 Another think I find interesting is how the hell is Melina pro two fingers? She must not know that Metyr lost contact with the greater will? While Ranni seems to have figured it out already.

[@abdieljove2011]

@@McDudes I see Metyr and the Elden Bessts as on the same side, yeah. Well, kinda? They’re both shooting stars sent down by the Greater Will to impose order. I’m not sure the Elden Beast is even sentient though. It’s just the living form of the Elden Ring and a physical embodiment of Order. The ring has no agenda beyond order. Its rightful owner can alter it to create their own laws of nature. I think the Elden Beast was just defending itself since Marika shattered the ring lol As for Melina, she’s a mystery. Ecen her connections to the Gloam Eyed Queen make her a real head scratcher since she’s Marika’s daughter and Mesmer’s sister. I hope we dig up more on her somewhere. That said, I think she’s more…anti Frenzied Flame than anything lol

[@McDudes]

@@abdieljove2011 Yeah she's for sure anti Frenzied Flame. If anything it seems she's supporting Marika in helping us kill her and free her I guess. But well we end up killing Radagon instead 🤔

[@arkcantoscreampsnpc7274]

@@abdieljove2011 you are talking about dlc lore but ignoring base game lore to make assumptions. Both dlc and base game lore work together to make the true lore, and in the base game it is states that marika has a deal with “the greater will” not its agent, the being itself. So while it’s true that contact was cut off at some point marika clearly interacted with them at least once. We also are given no timeframes for the shattering war or the shadow wars, it could have happened the day before the tarnished awakened or 2 centuries, we don’t know. So you can’t assume things about timeframe in this game outside of extremely general timeframes

[@aranthur]

I think it's possible the hornsent would have raised one of their own to godhood, if not for Marika's intervention. The old woman in Belurat is referred to in one item description as the "Empyrean grandam," which at the very least means the towerfolk knew about Empyreans and this lady was in charge of finding and/or training them So I have a theory that in that moment with Marika in the trailer the hornsent were one step away from successfully creating a god of the Crucible. They'd constructed the Divine Gate, they had the primordial gold that would become the Elden Ring, and they had an Empyrean... And then Marika, who had been pretending to be their ally up until this point, killed that person, stole the Elden Ring, and ascended to godhood herself "The seduction and the betrayal"

[@oliverlarosa8046]

Now *that* is an interesting thought. It would explain why the Divine Gate appears to be freshly built when Marika uses it, at least

[@Almoniification]

In shadowkeep there's a statue of woman with a horned head, looking exactly like Marika, crucified in the exact same way as Marika in the final fight cutscene. I think hornsent actually did succesfully create a god of Crucible, mixing a saint with Elden Beast and maybe couple dozens of other losers. Problem is, their god hated them.

[@garretthaskett6384]

Would explain the god-skin like material that she reaches in and grabs the great runes from.

[@Orthanderis]

Marikas people were being stuffed into Jars at bonny village, mixing with criminals. The whole point of doing that was to meld and graft them into saints. I think Marika stole the ritual because she was the saint that succeeded, and she had an accord with the Greater Will, which the hornsent didn't. Here's the things though; Marika prayed to the Grandmother at her village, who looks remarkably like the statues of Marika throughout the game. I'm willing to bet that Marika succeeded in the melding, was supposed to replace the current God, but decided to abandon and later destroy the Hornsent for what they did to her. You have to remember, this was the entire reason her people existed as far as the hornsent were concerned. The hornsent saw all of them as slaves to torture, slaughter, and meld together in the creation of saints

[@mahrkoudings3502]

Yeah I think so too, they used the Shamans and their powers of spiritually merging people into one as a sacrifice or catalyst to make possible the ascension to godhood of one of their own. Marika cooperated with them for a while, maybe against her will, maybe she was even put in a jar herself, but in the last second, so to speak, she took divinity for her own. So she pretty much reached godhood at the cost of sacrificing her entire own race of people, which could be described as her "original sin". Which she tried to hide by having Messmer wipe out the hornsent and by hiding the lands of shadows behind the veil. That's my personal head canon at this point at least.

[@VictorIV0310]

On a related note, The design of the furnace golems seems to be a sort of twisted karmic retribution towards the Hornsent approved by Messmer and Marika. The shamans were mutilated, then stuffed into jars to become saints by the Hornsent so in response, Marika orders her son Messmer to wage a brutal, genocidal war against the Land of Shadow with his most prominent war machine being the massive furnace golems where the Hornsent themselves are rounded up in droves, dead or alive (but most likely still alive for extra cruelty), to be stuffed in the golems and lit aflame to bring it to life. Imagine the screams and howls of terror and agony and the smell of burning flesh as the golem surges to life; An instrument of death’s first gasps of “life” brought forth by the deaths of so many within its frame to serve as fuel for the golem as it marches over the land as an instrument of terror, destruction and mockery as it wears the horned mask of the fell god of fire the Hornsent so feared.

[@Zhiham_]

Ah the parallels!!! Great analogy!

[@Mr.Rendo1]

The golem even bears the faces of dead giants likely killed by messmer himself mayhaps what horrific cruelty

[@VictorIV0310]

⁠​⁠@@Mr.Rendo1Not necessarily the actual faces of dead giants that they sliced off but rather crude effigies with their hair. The hair may be the only part of the giants that is real on it.

[@Mr.Rendo1]

@@VictorIV0310 still from dead giants most likely lol

[@eddyh5]

To me, the dlc explains to us that Radagon is Marika's divested self through the journey of Miquella.

[@garethlawton5278]

It actually explains it the other way. Marika didn't divest herself of anything to become a god. Miquella only did that so he could become a god without any taint of the old golden order which his body and other selves were full of. He had to get rid of them or the Greater Will would still be ruling in his name even if he attained Godhood as "Miqella the gold". The shedding of Trina and his body was not something Marika herself did. She had no need to. She wanted an order led by the greater will, up until she didn't. But she was already a god by then. Miquella from the start had no trust in the greater will, so he got rid of all his greater will products before godhood. which was basically all of him.

[@MrTrancelator]

I think it is more likely that Radagon was grafted into Marika's body. That is what Melina's recital of Marika's words suggests: "O Radagon, leal hound of the Golden Order. Thou'rt yet to become me. Thou'rt yet to become a god. Let us be shattered, both. Mine other self." "Let us be shattered" must refer to the process of mutilating their bodies and allowing their limbs, torsos, etc. fuse together the same way as the jars were created by the Hornsent.

[@justsomeotherguywithamusta6810]

​@MrTrancelator i agree too, except the shattered part. For me that's her durect indirect way of her telling radagon in his face what she's planning. The black knives were her assassins. They were numen with close connections with marika herself. This heavily enforces the fact she planned with ranni. I think maliketh remambrance states she betrayed him which most certainly alludes to the the betrayal that is the night of the black knives. Marika even burned melina to prepare her to be kindling (bernhal maiden cut dialogue).

[@MrTrancelator]

@@justsomeotherguywithamusta6810 I think she did not want to shatter the Elden Ring at the time. Her fusion with Radagon was probably driven by her desperation to seal away her genetic heritage that caused some of her children to be born an Omen. Although Radagon was never identified positively as their father, I think Messmer and Melina were Radagon's and Marika's first offspring, hence the red/reddish hair. Messmer was born an abomination so Marika drove away Radagon from her side, and sent him to conquer Liurnia. She then tried again to create a proper lineage free from the Crucible's influence, but her children with Godfrey were also flawed except Godwyn. Also, Godfrey kinda fused with his lion, which reminded her of the Hornsent, so she expelled Godfrey, and called back Radagon who, in the meantime, fathered 3 normal children. She figured that if she can fuse with Radagon, Radagon will seal away her "flaw", and allow her to have normal children. Apparently, it did not work out, Malenia was born with the scarlet rot, and Miquella was cursed with eternal childhood. The naming of Marika's children is actually quite telling: those who are abnormal in some way have a name that starts with "M" (after Marika - Mohg, Morgott, Malenia, Miquella). Yes, I realize that Melina seems to be normal... if you discount the fact that she has no physical body and she is burnt for some reason. Also, I'm convinced that Marika was actually chopped into pieces by the Hornsent and put in a jar with some minced Hornsent criminal meat, but she survived and emerged relatively unscathed - that's why some of her offSpring are Omen as her originally clean Numen bloodline was tainted by Hornsent genes. (Of course, this is speculation. We know next to nothing about the Numen and their relationship with the Crucible.)

[@aranthur]

My Crucible theory: The tower folk alternately describe it as a spiral, a pair of twin trees, and also as a current that reaches up toward the heavens... But that last one at least is not a new concept to us. We've seen plenty of currents shooting up toward the heavens both in the DLC and in the base game. The spirit springs I think that in the place where the Erdtree is now, there used to be a massive spirit spring that rose up in two streams spiraling around each other, most likely taking with them a great fountain of water since the Erdtree's roots are right above the source of the two underground rivers. Perhaps these waters even at one point had healing abilities similar to the sap of the Erdtree, before Marika transformed this fountain of life into a tree of life Her biggest mistake was separating the two trees, because she wanted a world of order and light, without chaos and shadow. The Erdtree and Scadutree SHOULD have been together, twined around each other like a spiral and in balance with one another But that aside, if the Crucible is a miraculous spirit stream where all life is blended together, where does its power come from? From spirits of course. We learn from the Suppressing Pillar that when the Lands Between and the Land of Shadow were one, it was a place where all forms of death "washed ashore." It was a place where all the world's dead were inexorably drawn, where their spirits would gather and blend in a single great melting pot, a crucible you might say, and then eventually burst up from the ground and bring new life to the world Death was the source of the Crucible's life, and this might explain why the sap of the Erdtree dried up so quickly after Marika sealed the Rune of Death

[@FeelTehPOWA]

that's a really interesting theory adding to that what are your thoughts on the Gloam Eyed Queen and Death?

[@ssscpg22]

Oh that could also be why Melina says the world needs Destined Death (rune of death)

[@aranthur]

@@FeelTehPOWA I think I need more evidence to come up with a theory I'd feel confident in, but one potential explanation is that the GEQ is very similar to Messmer or the Omen twins Marika suppresses the flame of the Fell God, and she has a child born with the flame inside him. She seals him away in the Land of Shadow, and then we start getting people like Corrin and that one starting class, mortals loyal to the Erdtree but who have prophetic visions of it burning and are able to use forbidden fire incantations Marika tries to suppress the Crucible and anything to do with horns, and she has two children with an overwhelming amount of horns and power in their blood. She seals them away beneath the capital, and the "Omen curse" begins spreading all throughout the kingdom Perhaps after suppressing death, Marika had a child born with the ghostflame and/or god-killing black flame inside her, and like Messmer she found a use for her for a while, hunting down opposing gods, until Marika eventually became too afraid of her power and sealed her and the Rune of Death away as well, eventually leading to the spread of deathroot and Those Who Live in Death As much as Marika would have liked, these concepts and forces refuse to be removed from the world for long, always finding some form through which to reenter the Lands Between. And death very well could be one of them

[@fishspoons]

I personally think that there was just a large material tree where the Erdtree now stands, one fed by the waters as you describe. Otherwise I think you're bang on the money. My addition: all ages prior to Marika are "unbound" in that all elements that Marika would go on to suppress are in play. It is essentially nature as we understand it, represented metaphysically. In this world, being Elden Lord was essentially pledging yourself to this natural process. It might grant you power, sure, but it doesn't let you change the fundamentals. You are fundamentally under the sway of a darwinistic natural order. Marika would therefore be the first God as we understand it, with God before being nothing but a force. She decimates the old tree, leaving nothing but the stump and the roots, and fuses herself to the force at its core, and makes use of the connection, the "grace" that is transmitted to her via the Fingers from a totalitarian alien entity that seeks absolute control, to sever all the rules of nature that she finds repellent. This is why grace can be seen by us in streams in the air and why the Fingers stand tall and stock still: they are antenna for instructions and will. And that is why the Erdtree is semi-transparent: it is a projected manifestation, emanating the rules out across the land. Marika is the tree now.

[@teosandev6116]

Forced evolution, rampant mutation, idolizing dna, someone call the imperial inquisition already. :D

[@alliesangalli1757]

I don't think the Hornsent created the Gate of Divinity. In the story trailer, the bodies of the Gate are still fresh as Marika walks through them. It makes more sense to me that this was Marika's "original sin", as they call it. She used the sacrifice of countless Hornsent to rise to godhood.

[@titanscerw]

Perfect use for race of genocidal massmurdering maniacs in my book ...

[@donovan4222]

@@alliesangalli1757 If you look closely at the story trailer, you can see those strands of runes she is holding up are connected to all the bodies around the divinity gate. So yeah she is clearly using them as some kind of sacrifice.

[@demonintellect9834]

Personally I think she was with Godfrey at the time. Everyone needs a King Consort. There is a Crucible Knight in the Lands of Shadow and he and his knights both used the power of the Crucible. Also the could be the seduction and betrayal she eventually cast him aside and took his grace.

[@RRed19]

TLDR: Marika pulled a Griffith from Berserk, sacrificing everyone to become a god.

[@jameskelley2125]

⁠@@RRed19It all come back to berserk

[@radicalautism5696]

I think Marikas seduction and betrayal is related to whoever the father of Melina and Messmer was.

[@justsomeotherguywithamusta6810]

It's radagon. It's pretty obvious. Radagon's theme plays subtly at mesmer's boss fight. He has red hair. He's cursed like malenia and miquella. His name starts with M like miquella and malenia.