MASS Raven COUNTERS Everything? | Beating Grandmasters With Stupid Stuff

Today we try mass raven + ultra turtle mode
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#harstem #SC2 #StarCraft2

[@luxon4]

the scenes of mass raven hunting down mass carrier with mass static turrets is the coolest sc2 battle ive seen for a long time

[@whateverppl1229]

yea, ketroc is always so defensive and typically doesnt chase like that so it's nice to see.

[@OsOkod]

the new tactic to win against AIR TOSS! :D

[@hermeticinstrumentalist6804]

I am very much inclined to agree.

[@joe6725]

New meta!

[@Sara_Feingold]

@@joe6725 Don't forget to armor missile your own ravens ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

[@andreibelii2542]

That was a painful loss on Pride for me. It was tilting to loose to mass ravens. But life is not easy I guess... Never thought that I will be part of BGWSS, playing is not that fun as watching. But I like it

[@kristopherleslie8343]

I wouldn’t take it bad as only 25% or less of people can utilize it well in general

[@granolacash3340]

Lol we could tell you were tilted when you refused to leave the game for the last 10 minutes

[@JFox4587]

Once the tanks were gone, wouldn’t zealots just wreck his eco? I know hindsight is 20/20, but seemed like all he had was air defense on all his bases

[@andreibelii2542]

@@JFox4587 maybe you are right but I thought that planetaries with armor and mads repair is unbreakable. I think that Harsten is right, going into templars would be better

[@mikeballew3207]

You put up a really good fight. I imagine that the hardest part about playing a BGMWSS when you don't know you're playing against one is the strategy. In your mind, you have to think about what you will do to counter the raven. Against a sane opponent, you will also have to consider what they would do to your counter to the raven. But built into the BGMWSS, is the insanity that Harstem will just build more Ravens no matter what. If you knew that, you could exploit it, but when you don't know it, it becomes a mind game in his favor, as you are forced to consider counters that he will never employ. Guys like myself envy you. I will never be good enough to lose to something this gloriously silly. I know it was frustrating to play, but I hope you can think back on it fondly. This is instantly one of my favorite matchups ever.

[@talictdf4757]

Harstem: Has like 35 ravens Also Harstem: I know I need more ravens I came for stupid stuff and I was not disappointed 😊

[@jonathondouglas9896]

Watching those ravens chase airtoss down for literally a minute throwing down endless streams is probably the funniest thing I have ever seen in SC2. Amazing.

[@Kanzuke]

Deploying turrets like his life depends on it with the occasional AA missile right into the centre of his raven clump, this was peak starcraft

[@atticusbeachy3707]

Ketroc tactic vs carriers: burrow a handful of widow mines around a planetary fortress. The interceptors clump up attacking the PF, and the mines blow up most of them. Missile turrets can kill the rest.

[@Andrew-qu7lq]

and then also similar to what happened here, just run by and slaughter the mineral lines, carriers get starved and useless.

[@TacoMedic]

Yeah, Ketroc's games are hilarious. He basetrades in almost every fight. He will almost never actually fight toss air unless all Interceptors are gone. But every time toss attacks Ket's base, he just mass repairs planetary whilst detouring his ravens to slaughter a toss base or two. The base trade ends up being roughly equal in terms of resources lost, but the amount of time it takes to remax a toss air army (and all the lost interceptors) gives Ket time to take another 2 bases and build another 15 turrets. Every Ket game is a war of attrition. His APM is honestly pretty garbage and his micro reflects that. He has no business being above Gold 1, but his macro + WM map vision just makes him so enjoyable to watch and he wins most mid-late/late games.

[@CameronVanNatta]

Also put your missle turrets *behind* your planetaries, so that way the interceptors attack that instead. It takes so long to take down a planetary that you kill more interceptors that way

[@KamikazeWombat]

About 15 minutes in he does feed back maybe 4 of your Ravens. Would have been good if you didn't have 35 more in that pack lol. I think this may be my favorite one of these, so great

[@christopherrest8288]

Got an idea (somewhat new): "Beating 2on2 Masters while controlling 2 players" Basically the opposite of archon mode (more or less). You play 2on2 ladders games with another player. The other player instantly leaves each game, so that you have to play 2 players at once. I would like to see if you can make it to masters 1. And maybe, if it is too easy, do the same challenge in 3on3 or 4on4 and if that is still too easy, add "stupid stuff" tactics as well.

[@deepvoid2871]

i like the idea

[@christopherrest8288]

@@jujucasar2003 But he can't build units and buildings if the other player does not leave. The other player could give unit control, but as far as I know you can't build buildings then

[@BigPerm6999]

players leaving game to leave all resources to remaining player makes it super easy to cheese, happens alot on ladder!

[@JosephParker_Nottheboxer]

Does anyone remember the guy 9 years ago building mass overlords, pooping creep everywhere and dropping stuff from the overlords? You couldn't see anything on the ground so it ws nearly impossible to control. Harstem... try this... about 300 overlords.. blot out the sun... drop things.... laugh?

[@bookworm8415]

YES! This was a classic!

[@KataisTrash]

One minor detail I noticed, if you ever try this mass Raven strategy again: When you were hunting the Carriers, they were flying off back to base and your turrets only shot once or twice each. Instead, it might have been a better strategy to only drop one or two turrets during the chase, and only really unload when other Protos buildings are around; that way, the turrets would then swap to buildings and not stand around doing nothing. So basically, trying to push the fight back into the Protos base :)

[@GianniCampanale]

and i noticed he could place autoturrets a bit farther while chasing to have more hits before carriers go out of their range.

[@garnetg987]

Mass Raven + widow mine is one of the scariest cheeses I've come across in the lower leagues. Very difficult to counter if they're dotting the map with turrets as well.

[@rocksparadox]

''Mass Raven + widow mine is one of the scariest cheeses I've come across in the lower leagues'' Ketroc the snail wins with it until NA Diamond, so EU Gold . :D Anyone who recognizes this crap gets tank viking or immortal voidray and just stomps him.

[@garnetg987]

@@rocksparadox granted this was 2 years ago, so I don’t feel the same about it anymore. But last time I ran into this was as a Zerg and I just rushed hive and went viper ultra and smashed.

[@JFox4587]

Captain, this episode had me rolling! Watching his army run away from ravens was super funny 🤣

[@hepcecob]

Please do a sequel, this was really fun to watch!

[@Rubashow]

When Ravens had Seeker Missile a player named Ketroc did this all the time. He turtled and expanded and just build mass raven. Worked like a charm.

[@SupremeVelocity01]

If it is stupid but it works it is not stupid. That said it's been a long time since i've seen any of this kind of stuff actually being played and it's a joy to watch.

[@miked3723]

I watched Beasty, so the whole game im waiting for the moment when you throw down 30 turrets in a fight and realize wait a minute this is overpowered AF.

[@danilshcherbakov2126]

BGMWSS idea, Critter zoo: For each base you take starting with your natural, you have to wall in a critter (your main or somewhere else on the map) with buildings

[@guest273]

Alright, this style was epic. I want to see more mass ravens in BGMWSS! :D

[@Zach_Routhier]

From 25:51 and on I was laughing nonstop watching the Mass Raven army Interference Matrix the entire skytoss army while chasing them away with turret drops.

[@fate711]

NUKES!!! We want NUKES!!

[@vuhdoo7486]

Maybe you could send this replay to Lowko, would be funny to see him cast it xD

[@vitorh3568]

21:05 AUHuhauhaUhaUhAU exactly my reaction xD

[@sebastianhansen6854]

The amount of energy our man Harstem is wasting killing absolutely nothing, because hes not planting enough or focus firing with the turrets. God damn XD

[@Nuggetheadification]

Classic diamond League strat, you know it when you see the planetary fortress in your opponents the expo :)

[@mehdimarashi1736]

I wish you had a look at the workers kill count as well, captain! I'm guessing 200 or something silly like that!

[@NDNRG9]

asw someone with no clue about buildorders and roles in SC2 i´d actually like to see some kind of mass liberator play, slowpushing and sieging up all the time

[@rauljorquiera4922]

3:17 Bas is a word in French, it's the same as bass but without an "s"

[@friendofjim]

When you hit yourself with the anit-armor missile in his main it looked like BM :D

[@cobble3231]

Fun fact, Iba lost fairly recently (2 months ago maybe) to HeroMarine playing ravens *ONLY* ... Iba was 5.8 at the time. Puts things into perspective

[@gabydewilde]

if you want to turret an undefended base a few ravens with energy is enough. The rest can exchange looks with the carriers that should just fly away from them. If they fly to a spot that you cant cannon surround it with turrets. I really want to see PF, turret, raven, marine+bunkers now. 2 bunkers per marine then hop from one side to the next. Empty bunkers are quite annoying.

[@mirekmrazek8985]

FLORENCIO Files - Harstem Edition :)

[@89sharlo]

Wow, this was way better than I thought!

[@Arachisage]

Who will win ?? The most advanced fleet of the most advanced and psychic race capable of plasma shields and psionic powers Monke turret go brrr

[@lynk_1240]

Next week on IODIS: Protoss Bas complains about Ravens being IMBA

[@no1yourewrong]

how it must feel to lose to a player you watched anti armor missile himself multiple times

[@Schoolfunds1]

Wish you started flying and landing planetaries next to his bases, unloading scv’s for turrets/repair while harassing/fighting with ravens. Looks like it would have been possible for the last stretch of the game

[@NoahBB]

This is the Ketroc build if you want any tips. He's a North American player that is somewhat known for mass ravens + planetary fortresses.

[@rocksparadox]

Incredibad, he only does it because he no APM so it's his way of not being in gold. ;)

[@leonardmilcin7798]

Your opponents be like "Oh... this guy again..."

[@Maxmilian666]

Ketroc would be proud.

[@Andrew-qu7lq]

The units lost count gets inflated with mass raven though since I'm pretty sure the game counts each turret destroyed (not timed out) as a value lost. So the actual units lost was probably a lot less than the 45k

[@martinkrauser4029]

turrets have no cost, fam the game maybe counts them as units lost but there is no value to add to the lost resources tally

[@merknarol2159]

floating 3.3k minerals and not being maxed out is terrible Harstem told me... :D

[@josefanon8504]

Dear Harstem, singular of Colossi is Colossus btw yours sincerely ^^

[@SlayPlenty]

kelazur absolute chad suggestion, comes with a build order for kev too?

[@bogdyvyp]

yeah but remember when ravens had seeker missiles that exploded everything? I miss that...

[@ascetahedonista7161]

Ok, I have a suggestion: "The floor is lava challenge" you cannot move ground units throught the lower layer of the map.

[@PenguinIceDelta]

Except for workers?

[@qweytrop572]

I'd love to see another episode of mass raven

[@jeremyklein953]

Oh my god I've never been so excited

[@jeice13]

Has there been any crossover between bgmwss and is it imba or do i suck?

[@bodgee1094]

Mass raven is smart stuff

[@balazsfenyes3880]

Finally another Uthermal video.... oh wait... it's Harstem. Call the copyright police.

[@produck11]

This is the most amazing thing I have ever seen

[@ATeyken]

I remember when Zerg lost infested terrans because they could do this.

[@Meridiu5]

the 20:40 fight had me rolling laughing

[@hamburgers7817]

Harstem this was very fun, but why didn't you put turrets on rapid fire felt like it would of helped a lot especially in the chases.

[@gs6810]

So when I watch these videos, my biggest take away is that "stupid stuff" isn't stupid as long as your fundamentals are sound and your APM is very high and accurate. So my question is what do you suggest is the best way to get your APM's higher?

[@tambaz2276]

practice playing faster. make sure you're using all your hotkeys, your scroll speed is fast, your mouse speed is appropriately fast, and your keyboard response rate is appropriately fast. However you need to ingrain the fundamental mechanics as well so that you're keeping on top of your supply, production, macro, etc while you're doing it.

[@AntiDoctor-cx2jd]

masses ravens, get's out-ravened

[@Max-sz9ez]

Ketroc would be proud lol

[@brunocer8149]

😂😂 Great episode!

[@ebbethinggaard]

This was a lot of fun

[@noisaidgetlost9448]

Anybody who doubted has never played battlepoker.

[@BigPerm6999]

playing zerg i had a terran BC rush me with single BC then mass raven, he kept me on 3 bases with turrets, any attempt at defending a base means i lose units to energy, I had no idea how to fight it! :D

[@SD-jf7nb]

Fung, pb & jam.

[@DunateoRom8v37]

This is the most exciting BGMWSS.

[@electricitybomb]

Meanwhile zerg: parasitic bomb

[@Crimsonak]

It is a bit upsetting that 111 became the understood term instead of the destiny cloudfist.

[@khiikzx04]

I think he forgot the corvid reactor in fusion core

[@chrisw.735]

This was wonderful.

[@ledrash6079]

Haha, this was awesome!

[@PolineChan]

he should build ghost to emp dem ravens

[@Fauxkuhila]

Was Ketroc not consulted?

[@AngryDrake]

This is Bronze-class TPM right there!

[@LachimusPrime]

G G, Cappytan!!

[@pablovirus]

That was just awesome

[@benkr]

That was kinda cool

[@rauljorquiera4922]

22:57 ??? haha

[@alexhettwer8436]

certified banger

[@mestgryder2887]

Shades of ketroc xD

[@albertoversace146]

Peak of entertainment

[@JFox4587]

What’s satisfying is watching someone who knows the game well beat someone who is just stuck in a mind set of “get carriers, win game.” Carriers might be the very worst unit, and to continually try to use capitol ships that can be disabled is a laughably bad strategy.

[@asdfqwerty9241]

I think the tempests were an okay choice despite being somewhat weak to being disabled (probably not as good as phoenix or high templar still, but they were at least reasonable - I think hypothetically if he just massed tempests it could've still won), but yeah the carriers were just awful - not only is it weak to being disabled, but because there are so many turrets scattered everywhere (both raven turrets and missile turrets too), the interceptors are just completely ineffective because they get shot down by all the turrets that would otherwise not be in range of anything.

[@henningbreede6428]

You have no idea what you're talking about, the protoss opened blink colossus, going into stargate was a reaction due to seeing mech. Low level players judging top 200 players is always pretty cringe.

[@asdfqwerty9241]

@@henningbreede6428 .. what? By the time he was building anything out of his stargates he had already seen that there were 20+ ravens built.. by the time he was building carriers it was extremely obvious that he was playing against mass ravens (and that it continued for 15 minutes afterwards without really changing his strategy at all too). I mean, I don't blame him too much for not knowing how to handle it because mass raven isn't something that you normally see and if you've never played against it before it can be difficult to come up with strategies against it on the fly while you're doing everything else at the same time, but let's not pretend that he somehow couldn't see that ravens were being massed.

[@JFox4587]

@@henningbreede6428 my criticism isn’t that he built them, but that he continues to build them forever. He could have built a lot of things to counter ravens, such as mass blink stalkers once the tanks were gone. Instead he just keeps using a single stupid unit in mass. No archons, no zealots, no storm, just shitty fucking carriers. It’s a strategy game. And that was hilariously bad strategy.

[@DotaMobaUnionRu]

Is it imba... or?

[@danyazabazhanov2037]

Week 2 of asking Harstem to harass workers with collossi

[@dfsdsfsdfsadfdsfa223]

Do mass ghosts or sentries next

[@mikegarcia4808]

no vikings straight ravens and planetaries with mines. dont need vikings. i have played against this before and beat it with Standard bio but you cant engage the ravens you just have to get map control and deny expansions it can be beat but it is a fucking redicilously hard build to beat late game

[@bluetrepidation]

Where is Ketroc?

[@ImOnTheHunt4You]

You're the best!

[@-blackcat-4749]

That was a everyday episode. Nothing 🔖 surprising

[@im_a_musician_i_guess69]

it would be really cool to see you make a sc2 discord server where we can post whacky ideas and discuss sc2 in general

[@dylansevitt]

He has a discord

[@im_a_musician_i_guess69]

@@dylansevitt where can i find it?

[@dylansevitt]

@@im_a_musician_i_guess69 in the description to videos of the main channel

[@im_a_musician_i_guess69]

@@dylansevitt thanks!

[@jeeeeeeeeeeezus]

Pro tip: when repair is on autocast, you can amove SCVs and they will repair everything in the way. That way you can shift queue amove then back to mining, so they finish repairing everything then return to mining without you having to manually tell them to repair more shit whenever you have more things to repair.

[@granolacash3340]

He needs to see this!

[@Marxon1134]

Yoooooo

[@alesjaterka2155]

Isn't there a problem, where SCVs repair each other instead of ravens?

[@whateverppl1229]

@@alesjaterka2155 technically, but it isnt a problem. the problem is if there are buildings near by, they repair that also and then might not be close enough to repair the ravens.

[@frostytheape7741]

Is there a video of someone doing this? You almost never see pros repair when out on the map let alone like that they usually move back to their third or fourth base and pull some scv from mining for a bit

[@LesgoBrandon7]

Ketroc would be proud.

[@RaynorsProphet]

That protoss guy is going to end up submitting an "is it imba" submission over those ravens lol

[@mh1593]

In silver league a few years ago I lost to mass raven, and it's bizarre... it's like being abused by a clown; it's absolutely not funny I'm just left thinking "WTF?" That player clowned my ass hard.

[@Lq32332]

When is Harstem going to figure out there is an upgrade to give Ravens more starting energy?

[@OurayTheOwl]

Came here to say this.

[@monkeybusiness673]

Wait, I lost track of what happened...But are you telling me he won that second game without the Reactor?! O_O

[@geuros]

Mr. Harstem, what a delightful episode! I also believe that you forgot one of the most important upgrades for Ravens - the Corvid reactor which increases starting energy of Ravens by 25 to 75. Research available in tech lab of Starport. In such a crazy numbers of Ravens, that's a lot of free energy.

[@colossaldonut5190]

I'm just imagining this with the old Seeker Missile ability.

[@VadimOm]

You should've asked Ketroc about mass raven, and not Heromarine

[@luckynumberslevin5936]

mass raven, hell yeah. Was suggesting this as well for a while, love to see it! ^^

[@jasonsnitch7208]

Please someone submit the second game to Bronze League Heroes that was one of the greatest displays of bronze league spirit in a GM game ever.

[@yeoldmanriver4881]

25:45 -- This was one of the funniest scenes I've ever seen in SC2 and the silence of nothing but spam placing auto turrets is just the cherry on top.

[@LauchEleven]

This was something I think I sae back in WoL. Some replays with players using mass ravens and the autoturrets. They could rip through everything

[@thalanoth]

lol remember how OP the 1-1-1 was because of the point defense drone lol. The only time I beat a grandmaster was with it lol

[@mehdimarashi1736]

In WoL I lost so many games to those stupid hunter seeker missiles and PDDs. If you let your opponent get to 10+ ravens you were gone. When did they remove them hunter seekers? Was it in HotS or before that?

[@mattr791]

Wol ravens were just built different

[@SaulGoodman3D2049]

@@mehdimarashi1736 Near the beginning of LotV all 3 raven abilities were changed. The auto-turret was replaced with a deployable mech repair drone which healed mech for free for 90 seconds. Eventually it got switched back to auto turret but seeker missile and PDD are still gone :( Still we have 6 full years of PDD and seeker missile being unchanged to look back on. Honestly pretty crazy it took as long for them to get removed as they did lol

[@megadeth-1a885]

here is a challenge - full zoom play. That would be near impossible.

[@eqsaz]

The duration is so short... these things lasted several minutes in Wings of Liberty. You could leave them in their base and if unattented they would happily level it. So sad :(.

[@biggali]

But turrets in WoL only did 8 damage a shot, turrets these days shoot for 18 a shot.

[@philipiannaco5431]

Harstem: I have different groups of ravens Me an intellectual: it's called a murder sir.

[@rocksparadox]

It seems ''intellectual''is quite a big word for someone unable to produce a normal sentence and uses dead tropes.