MASSIVE Changes to Flesh and Blood TCG

[@WesJFin]

Love seeing these full coverage explanations from LSS on their design choices and ideals. Part of the reason people respect this awesome company so much.

[@DMArmada]

@@WesJFin you can't help but respect them for their sheer thoughtfulness and dedication. Keep in mind, these changes are made FOR THE PLAYERS!

[@aqilsani2909]

Yep was so annoyed with these cards and they are quite op in the game. Glad they are moved to LL which makes the actual game more beginner friendly.

[@Matti_Mattsen]

as someone coming from magic and seeing shit like "oh well, this was a problem, so now its banned" and that being all they ever wrote, its so refreshing to see a different take and actually making sure players know what their design goals are (because i guess they actually have some beyond "make lots of money")

[@FacePlant1324]

Everyone loves when the companies are open like that. My favorite video game is Path of Exile. GGG is probably the most open game dev company there is. It is why I give them benefit of the dought. It is why I respect and part of why I love the game so much.

[@divingnoobs3187]

Coming from the recent Yugioh Ban list last week and then seeing how much detail is in the Flesh and Blood ban write up, LSS Handles this game waaay better

[@DMArmada]

@@divingnoobs3187 I wasn't going to call it out by name, but yep. 100%

[@ultimaterare3146]

1000%

[@Scallywagz33]

"we'll give katsu something we promise" every fucking time.

[@larv23]

Hey Katsu got fucking Bonds and that shit, in retrospect, was overbearing. Not just short term but long term, it was just overshadowed by Azalea in OUT and then HVY with Prism and Kayo being better aggro decks. HVY in general produced better consistent number than Katsu so he fell off, but Bonds was always there.

[@Scallywagz33]

@@larv23 My point is that was all he got, they took out the reds, then said "he'll get new stuff to fill in gaps," then they took them all AND art of war and said the same thing. I totally get why the stuff needed banning, It just feels really bad to only invest into one deck, have it be fun, but middle of the pack, then get kicked into the dirt because of a different deck I don't play. When the prices are so expensive and volatile, I don't see a reason to invest anymore into it.

[@larv23]

@@Scallywagz33 We've also only got 1 *main* set that Katsu exactly got full and powerful support, Outsiders. I understand how you feel (I main Boltyn, and play other heroes because of it), but I don't share the price feeling personally. This game is driven by what's strong, most of the time, and once you see *that*, it gets really easy to pick up needed cards that used to be expensive. Best advice is never buy cards in the first month unless you have a read on something that could be strong later down the line. IIRC, this is one of the very few times that investing in one deck has ever backfired this hard, mostly because of how Art of War has propped up multiple decks up to this point. I hold more personal patience in the "Wait for cards" since I've been waiting since Everfest (When I started playing) for Boltyn to be more than a C Tier Hero at best. The Staples are expensive, yes, but I don't see them as any less of a TCG expense than say a good land base in Magic or investing in the expensive staples before the reprint + ban in Yu-Gi-Oh.

[@Scallywagz33]

@@larv23 I totally get you, and you're right I should have been more patient with my choices, and I agree with it being about the same price and yu-gi-oh or MTG, but that's still a real expensive investment, and I've been slowly picking up staples as the price fluctuates. I'm usually really cautious about my spending habits so it feels extra bad for it to play out this way. I initially invested into something on the lower end for it being cheaper and my playstyle, but I'm definitely at the point now where I'm scared to spend anymore when something like this could happen. I avoided assassin despite Uzuri being a playstyle and now I feel like if I had done that I wouldn't be where I am now. I'd love to invest into Betsy, she isn't great but it's a playstyle I love, and now I'm just nervous about being bonked for just playing the way I enjoy. Edit: Forgot to talk about your first point, that is definitely something that gives me hope, it could be a while before I see support, but if they do support katsu down the road it's something that will go a long way for me. The card revealed in the next set is disappointing, but one mid card won't be the stopping point for me at least.

[@jonrandelldaclison9803]

The design shift from Plunder Run to Premeditate is probably one of the best example of how LSS updated their pillars of game design. The ponder generated from premeditate doesn't extend the existing turn. It fits the idea of smaller advantages built over multiple turns as opposed to the immense value you gain from drawing a card while also applying pressure in a single turn. The same idea can be applied to CoF. You can get your best card and still get some type of advantage and apply some type of pressure but you are never fully extending your turn afterwards. And your opponent also gets to have the same type of deal but at a slight disadvantage. Enough where you could maybe gain the advantage. Mutiple cards drawn without significant disadvantage is the problem.

[@jessesealand3179]

While i do think some of the bans were harsh *cough* cash in *cough*, I truly think LSS is doing what's best for the game and the best for players. I love that the company is proactive when big issues arise, unlike something like Mtg. Glad I didn't pick up AoW to speed up florian's hero ability though!

[@henrypayne5879]

one card that is massively impacted by this BnR is balance of justice. Now it's basically only good into brutes and 3-of-a-kind rangers. Also the Olympia nerf was so clutch! Thank goodness he's out of the format starting next week

[@Churchless]

Olympia catching strays

[@BBpaintball]

I play Royal Riptide and Olympia... I have lost my way now.

[@Churchless]

@@BBpaintball 🤷🏻‍♂️ just get a new hat for riptide, it's not a big deal. Olympia on the other hand..... we'll probably see some support in an expansion slot soon I'd hope

[@henrypayne5879]

@@BBpaintball I am an Olympia main for CC as well, clearly I was doing to well to deserve this ban

[@Kolat_Informant]

Since the ban doesn't take place until Monday, Sept 9th...You will find me playing Katsu Bonds combo in LL in Tampa. One last go around.

[@Johnoamondo]

After reading their explanations it really gives me hope to what they're trying to do in this shift. I understand they're reasoning which makes it easy to see what's coming.

[@jiffyb333]

Blown away by them making such a bold move like this. Thought they would never touch art of war because of its history and how much people have invested emotionally and financially into that card. I've seen so many games make moves like this and it absolutely backfire on them because they just drop the changes and say it's for the good of the game. What makes this different in my eyes is just how much thought was put into this announcement. Touching on the core principles of the game, what they've learned, the journey of the game so far, and where they want the game to be in the future. With a thorough explanation as to how these bans will help them accomplish that goal. Regardless of how I feel on any of the individual changes how they've handled this is an absolute masterstroke.

[@playtimetcg]

This is massive in so many parts of FaB, players, collectors, everyone is affected

[@deadpoolrwbyfan8419]

Didn’t believe they’d actually ban AoW. It’s done so much for so long. This BnR, while sad in some ways (poor Katsu) is actually quite exciting

[@MrGeoghagan]

Rip Fai and Katsu. This game is generally pretty fun, but this roller coaster of balancing attempts along with my one deck being a Classic constructed Fai list leaves me wanting to ignore FaB for a while. Already didn't care for the LL system as it seems better to remove the problematic cards from a hero's arsenal rather than removing the hero completely from the format (which you can argue this B&R is the focus on removing problematic tools, but LSS is continuing to do both and it's just making it annoying to play this game) so this is just the cherry on top.

[@Jazzalchemist]

100% agree

[@carlostv6]

Its hard to be casual with this game, I only played with zen blitz deck like 2 times now its gone😢

[@MrGeoghagan]

@@carlostv6 amen friend. I like to jam some games at my local game store armory events, but dropping the game until LSS gets FaB wherever it is trying to get it seems like the better move at this point.

[@carlostv6]

@@MrGeoghagan they should test more the new heroes before releasing them, this is not looking good for casual players

[@XaterMB]

Yeah when Chane got hit in Blitz I was left standing there with now what? Vincent wasn’t a good replacement with the card pool not having that much overlap and starting a completely new Blitz hero was even more of an investment. Not fun. I have stopped then.

[@ultimaterare3146]

Art of War became Pot of Greed in this game.

[@michaelantunez858]

Ngl this BnR hurts, and i I'm glad to have this explanation, but it still hurts so much. I can come to terms with a lot from the bans, but Katsu basically had a set taken away from him. I just wish LSS could release a Ninja that i can just play and not feel bad either way for playing it. I think you put it best way back when you said "BACK IN THE BINDER" 😢

[@tysowhite]

In James White we trust 🙏

[@patrickweiss5063]

Also why on earth would you have a calling in Chicago in December? It’ll be so freaking cold!

[@DMArmada]

@@patrickweiss5063 WHITE CHRISTMAS

[@JohanCody]

lol, some of us live north of the mason-dixon

[@GoblinReserve]

I could feel your pain. Great video thank you.

[@Deingel12]

My main fear after this would be that LL will now become the main premiere format, and CC will go the wayside of Blitz (i.e, used to be the main format, now no one wants to play it) I hope it won't go that route, but seeing how people in Twitter right now prefer LL to CC, this might just be the case

[@TabibosNachos]

A new era has arrived and I'm hyped

[@erikrubino6605]

I’ve been home from other card games, it was very clear to me from day one just how powerful car draw was in a game where every card is either a damage piece or resource to play a different card. So the idea of drawing two for one was absurd to me, it was very clear. Just how powerful that kind of interaction could be. So I quickly understood. Those effects are not gonna hear very often. I think flesh and blood is not the card game for you if you like to draw cards, although you do get to draw 4 cards per turn, giving you all the mental gymnastics of trying to figure out that best hand. But the way the game is designed net positive card draw is incredibly gamebreaking.

[@paleconfidant380]

My goodness the detailed explanation is so good!

[@viceversa0685]

you would not be overstating it mr armada

[@h1tzfabislife363]

Gahhhh J DUBBS!! What are you doing!! I'm still reeling and licking my wounds from Teklo Foundry crash! You can't do that to 2 cards in the same set!! GAHHH!! RIP AOW!!

[@Marcosantoniothebluecreator]

Every time flash and blood team communicates, i have a flashback of old wizard of the coast, i miss those days when i felt heard

[@timezero8409]

You completely skipped the "notably absent" section! 😱

[@BucksTheBear]

Katsu catching strays left and right😂

[@TheRazeryan]

might come back and play the game more now lol

[@ChantsDaggers-hv3uo]

I believe this for wizards was similar to how runeblades felt during Skeleta ban.

[@michaelc6817]

Quick to cover this news!! Thanks!

[@patrickweiss5063]

My 3 COLD FOIL Art of Wars are really sad :(

[@Cardboardgrinch]

@@patrickweiss5063 I can try to make them happy x))

[@BBpaintball]

I'm a Crown of Dominion player in every deck and was just gutted. Poor Cash In😢

[@DMArmada]

@@BBpaintball I'm right there with you

[@BBpaintball]

​@@DMArmadaI'm worried we are going back to value-math FAB, which is totally unappealing to me. Targeteing all the combo archetype cards in a single wave is disheartening. Will there be Duskblades in future sets? Surely they had Tomes etc. in the next few releases?

[@TelucDK]

​​@@BBpaintball To be fair. Crown + Cash In being able to be jammed into every deck is probably the reason why it has to go.

[@larv23]

The same reason Berserk has to go is more than likely the reason Cash In has to go, even if they're religated to middling but fun deck builds and proping up Olympia's entire existance exactly. Royal Cash In is fun but I'd wait for that Gold payoff to come down to pass full judgement.

[@jimmyshelton8954]

as a new player everything ive built or played has been affected by last several bans wtf

[@timezero8409]

To be fair, that announcement takes effect just after Tampa Bay 😁

[@DMArmada]

@@timezero8409 indeed it does, hence why I'm bringing my Kano deck now!

[@adderall3676]

I personally hate the reasoning of banning flesh and blood cards only because they restrict future design space. Its essentially the same as saying that the LL format is going to be ruined at some point because they will design cards that interact too powerfully with those in the future.

[@Tanpopohimawari]

They literally have to restrict cards in that format because of how broken starvo is, it can't be more ruined than that

[@XaterMB]

When I was still playing there were already a couple of cards that became way too ubiquitous while also being expensive as hell. Among them was Art of War. Command and Conquer, Enlightened Strike and Tunic are on this list as well. Just generics that are way too good.

[@stereodark]

I didn’t play fab in a very long time now so I don’t know much about the recent metagame. I’m usually against bans as they ruin your deck you invested in, but if it was unfun then the last resort option makes sense. What this ban did at least was make some noise and make me watch a video on FaB after 18 months.

[@tefa8927]

Im gonna start the game soon, still a bit confused after seeing this but im probably gonna start with blitz with my friends. Since i dont know how many banned cards and heroes are in previous blitz decks i think it's fair to get one of the new ones next week at the premiere? Open to recommendations here if anyone got any 👉👈 yugioh sucks atm

[@JustinSlayton]

I called the AoW ban but I wasn't expecting this.

[@caesportsfpsproreplays82]

I hope art of war and time artherwind will be unbanned after this season or something tho those are such good cards

[@MrAvacardo]

Ouch on Cash in too - I've stopped playing Kassai as she is just broken in the current meta and now She's lost one of the potent parts of her game. I understand that card draw is being pinned down but this will really shake up the meta for good in terms of competitiveness but there are now more unplayable heros. In a few expansion slots we could have an amazingly competitive game again

[@brexcubo6766]

She should be better with these bans, i think warriors will come back, especially kassai

[@khunapat11]

I’m not surprised if they gonna cancel generic card system next

[@slotholopolis2314]

Lowkey furious about Cash In. They literally say it's not a problem and ban it anyway. Kassai slips further away from legitimacy

[@DMArmada]

@@slotholopolis2314 that was the one that hurt the most.

[@alternativereality-e6i]

I’m not happy about Cash In or some of the Tomes. I just lost 9 cards across two decks. I feel for my buds who just bought the Art of Wars for Levia.

[@ic3rr3s83]

​@@alternativereality-e6imy katsu dexk lost 21 cards 😭 and my back up deck is DIO and Kano. im in shambles rn

[@alternativereality-e6i]

@@ic3rr3s83 Yea I’m not sure what to play now. I guess Providence is back in and Dominion/ Cash In is gone. I’m also bummed because I own two Marvel Crown of Dominions and they’re now useless.

[@focusflute]

Best thing LSS has done for the game. Makes games less high roll and more skill

[@havyn88]

Bloodrush and Three of a Kind definitely belongs on that list as well.

[@Johnoamondo]

I'd say wrong. They're is a heavier trade off to take advantage of these cards. As for the others it's only a bonus with no disadvantages. You can't play three of a kind twice in a turn like art of war.

[@protestthebread1046]

​@@JohnoamondoHard disagree. Lexi meta hinged on when she drew 3oak. it is more toxic thqn Orion and limits design space

[@Morventhus]

Really happy with the ban list this go around... Some things perplex me but seeing art of war go makes up for it

[@s1g216]

I think this is an approach by LSS to put an alpha value on some of its card just like the way MTG limits some of its cards to Legacy and Vintage.

[@PapaMikeRE]

I think most people are attracted to this game because of its difficulty and the math oriented gameplay. Im person who finds chess really really boring and TCGs with high variance uninteresting.I found about Flesh and Blood after playing a couple of weeks I was hooked.Finally a game for me, not boring and far from coin flipping. If people want to do degenerate stuff and win just to feel better for themselves then there are other TCG games that provide that.

[@Archrakni]

Really sad about Cash In, I /just/ built Kassai...

[@mauvrion_fries]

"It's (Tome of Aetherwind) busted in like man, it gives them a lot more capability to actually do the thing." This is exactly what LSS is targeting. You know what card we're due to get that gives Kano a lot more capability to actually do the thing, but with a meaningful quest? Overflow the Aetherwell fits the bill. I think it's a cool way to design a psuedo replacement card for what Tome was so easily used for, and it opens up design space for more draw cards in the future that otherwise wouldn't be worth considering if Tome was around

[@DMArmada]

@@mauvrion_fries yup, that was my point in the comment.

[@mauvrion_fries]

​@@DMArmadatime to play midrange Kano with Absorb in Aether! Haha I was hoping that card would be playable in Verdance too, but that's not likely 😥

[@XamotoPaste-t4z]

I'm for banning all cards that I don't own.

[@aaronnash4682]

I’d love to see how you think this will be affecting the meta! What does zen even look like after this? Is he subjected to going full kitty cat ninja now?

[@Lobosthecrow]

cheap card draw is almost always going to be overpowered in any card game.

[@sawnoff0murloc]

me being the one merchant player and just getting shit on that my main mechanic of gold and cash in is gone, now I stand no chance :( my fun meme class literally unplayable now. tempted to sell everything maybe ill hold onto it and hope for a new generic hero of some kind... literally a generic/merchant main and this ban killed all my motivation to play

[@Palefox27]

Good bans. I've never liked AoW. Getting it gone is so healthy. (Called it when fai released.) They didn't take tome of harvest from my boy Florian though. Could be good.

[@crayyonnyadrav4055]

I wonder how strong it would be if they make an Art of War without the carddraw mode.

[@protestthebread1046]

I would be less salty if the previous ban list they didnt absolutely bait the entire Katsu community. Underwhelming Gustwave as become more underwhelming. I have went to bat time after time for this games design, but MST has really made me question everything. Zen was such a massive failure that his design flaws ripper cards from several other heroes. There are so many road signs to Zen being busted. Katsu was such a well designed hero, a hero that does a buster thing in one of the most fair ways available to the game. My bias might be showing.. But now Katsu is in a state worse than Outsider's. No other hero in the game has had a set reversed for them. A whole set. I dont know if im at the sell out level of disappointment, but damn if im not close.

[@TheRazeryan]

craaazyyy, but awesome I think

[@danielcruz4960]

And so katsu and fai are safe from LL from several years, they not only killed combo katsu they also killed tiger katsu, thanks I guess? If new jatsu cards are as good as the ones they have shown us then I might as well stop playing

[@MrGeoghagan]

100% this. I'm a fairly casual player that had invested pretty heavily into the one hero I play, Fai. Tome of Firebrand and AoW both banned meanwhile Fai is already an extremely weak option, if not the weakest, when you want to play aggro. This just guts him.

[@protestthebread1046]

I'm a weekend warrior who jams Katsu. I want to quit ngl. nearly every hero has been powered up in the last 2 years. Katsu just got reverted to worse than pre Outsiders.

[@MrGeoghagan]

@@protestthebread1046 I feel your pain friend. I may throw together some janky deck to play on rare occasions, but I'm just over trying to keep up with this game. LSS basically gets to choose what hero will be strong during the card development process and seeing more and more new stuff while other heroes continue to languish is extremely frustrating.

[@Salavax]

Brute gang still standing strong 💪🏻

[@Vulturnos]

I would be fine with them taking away Art of War if Command and Conquer was also in that list. This card is literally in all competitive decks! How can you "cultivate and preserve a unique mechanical identity for each class and talent" while there is a card thats in absolutely every deck, despite that fact that each class has htier own way of attacking the oponent's arsenal? In the end it feels like its a punishment for ninja player's for LSS's mistake in bringing out Zen, a hero I dont even play or have any card, but thanks to him, I got my Katsu and Fai deck destroyed.

[@Churchless]

C&C doesn't enable a huge blowout of a turn like AOW. It does help claw back tempo, but it isn't even a must run in every single deck.

The biggest problem with getting rid of C&C is that it takes away an entire heroes ability

[@MrGeoghagan]

@@Vulturnos I am in the exact same boat and it is incredibly frustrating. Never even looked at Zen, only had my CC Fai deck that I had been adding bits and pieces to over time. Now this B&R hits and it just makes it feel like a waste of time.

[@Vulturnos]

@@Churchless The problem is not that C&C doesnt enables a huge blowout, but when everyone has to use it, decks start to have 57 slots instead of 60. This takes away from class identity.

[@Churchless]

@@Vulturnos not even close to true, maybe 60% of decks require C&C at a competitive level

[@vPegasus]

“Don’t worry Katsu players, we have something coming for you! Fai? What’s that? Uhhh, so anyways”

[@MakaroniarzPL]

Limiting card advantage is a great move for simply not leaving the game to the power creep. No more extra tall turns or 6-8 cards chains from ninjas.

[@Spect3r.]

Other than my Fai blitz deck, these changes dont affect me personally, howeever... if instead of having a new set every 3 months, maybe reduce the number of set and properly think about new heroes and cards before releasing them would be better than make a bunch of rushed broken heroes and then have to walk it back by banning shit

[@yoeule0947]

R.I.P Viserai my boy

[@nickbaker490]

Feels real bad when you own a foil playset of aow and lss just burnt 200 of your dollars.

[@tablegamestcg]

It’s interesting seeing some of these cards banned and while I do love drawing cards A LOT it makes sense why a lot of these cards are getting banned. Art of War, sad to see it go but it makes sense. Bonds, yeah it’s pretty good. Cash In, love it in Kassai but kinda cracked in a lot of royal decks (including a royal Florian deck). All the tomes, after reading this article, yeah it makes sense why they’re banned too. But could you please ban freaking Codex of Frailty too😂

[@Regaw]

It's a big deal but doesn't destroy or fundamentally change the game. It makes drawing extra cards a bit harder. I'm all for it.

[@caseywalker5244]

Feisty Locals Hat!!

[@alternativereality-e6i]

Unban Cash In! Unban Tome of the Aetherwind and Tome of Fyendal. The rest are fine 😊

[@JustinSlayton]

Fab 3.0 Started this day.

[@tysnow9524]

This is almost as shocking as cru 1st box going down 31.75% over a year...fab needs some help.

[@BBpaintball]

I wonder how many books/Tomes are in the coming sets? FAB hates literacy now?

[@loganjohnson6968]

Olympia users in shambles ... For now

[@karlvilhempulk]

if oasis becomes staple sideboard pitch stack kano is useless

[@Astromanaught]

Cash in makes no F'ing sense. Its a major strategy for many of the Heavy Hitters heroes. As an Olympia player, I honestly feel like just selling my whole collection. He already wasn't great, but now he is beyond useless.

[@Nathaniel_theClashGuy]

Cash In banned to make room for Pirate hero 😉

[@Panchy01]

Non rotation game, rotate game by bans :D

[@thelaughingdragon32]

Would u do a living legend dromai deck?

[@Aurinna]

rip art of war

[@PullanBowen-t7q]

Haag Highway

[@wunderboi78220]

I hope the next step is banning or giving erratas to broken generics. Command and Conquer could be a "royal specialization" or something like that, for example.

[@supermarioblacktiger]

Let's do the opposite of number 2. Increase the variance! Let's add coin flipping! More dice brutes! 😅

[@joshhoggle]

Should of banned c and c as well according to whats stated

[@aqilsani2909]

Bye bye zen and wizards

[@DMArmada]

@@aqilsani2909 nah, just Kano specifically 😂😭

[@freshblood6398]

this is death of game. So bad decision and news (((

[@ClarenceBeeks64]

They finally ban Tome of Divinity after Prism ran-off a portion of the player base. 😢

[@PopoTCG]

Dead game

[@DMArmada]

@@PopoTCG no

[@thelaughingdragon32]

ok i believe u

[@SlaughtingIdiots]

feels pretty dead, cant find anyone playing. just too expensive, too few changes to the heroes (if a hero is bad he will be bad for a LOOONG time) the art is nice but doesnt pop and the collectability just isnt it.

[@Cardboardgrinch]

Lol

[@misterjackpots]

Candy Land will always be there for you