Master of Orion: Ad Astra Prototype Review - Space 4X I've Been Waiting for!

[@jatedin1077]

I’d love to see a video of you comparing all the modern 4x games. Like an Arcs, Eclipse, TI4 Orion showdown!

[@Shelfside]

ahahaha you're killing me!!! -Ashton

[@AuthorDiCristofano]

Another excellent review.

[@rightleftspin]

Love to see Alexander on there :)

[@JochenThe1]

I really liked Master of Orion in 1993 💙

[@KamilGrochowski]

The creators of the original Master of Orion game have played our board game as well and they love it ;)

[@KamilGrochowski]

Thanks for the video!

[@liammcfarlane2777]

They also have buildings called udp and tcp! Bunch of IT nerds!

[@Deadsubstance]

Are you guys planning on doing a review on Arcs? I'd be surprised if Daniel had nothing to say about it

[@thelyghter7927]

After this good review I would totally be hyped by a review of ARCS. Is it coming? :-) :-)

[@Shelfside]

ha ha ha, hopefully one day! -Ashton

[@Talliesyn]

You mostly compare it to TI, but then *Eclipse enters the chat*. I believe it's really a hard area they're exploring here with this design, because how many different space 4x can an average player have. I'd like to see detailed comparison between the games.

[@Shelfside]

Yep, eclipse is definitely a little bit less known, and I played it less, so making less of the comparison in my head. I really like this game's approach to modifying ships over Eclipse, and how the combat is handled. -Ashton

[@DanielDCotta]

What is the game shown at 0:24 in the video (between Space Empires 4x and Twillight Imperium 4)?

[@Shelfside]

galactic era! We've done a full review on it as well -Ashton

[@robertthurman9866]

How do you guys get so much out of so few gameplays? You came up with such detailed aspects of mechanics that never appear in any other reviews. For this game could the instant win mechanics be withheld until turns 4 or 5?

[@Shelfside]

Cheers! 3 game plays is quite a bit of time spent, especially with our group of 2-3 players who are quite experienced in epic games. The instant win mechanics typically get withheld until round 3+ because orion is just too hard to take without a strong army, and typically people aren't foolhardy to leave their base vulnerable to attack. -Ashton

[@wmarclocher]

The 1990's Microprose video game was based on a hex and counter board game in 1974 called Stellar Conquest, possibly the first space themed 4x game. (edit) D'oh, you beat me to it 30:42 , but it wasn't AH was not the original publisher, that would be a company called Metagaming, A.H. would acquire it in 1984 (after turning their nose up to it and it's designer in 1973)

[@Gamling80]

Good remarks. Looks like balancing is yet to be perfected. Its annoying when some missions or random victory points is too important. Dune Imperium does this in a good way like you say. The buildings should perhaps be in different colors. Trading with the diplomats should always give some benefit. It's important that you don't feel like you rather not trade in order to not give your opponents to much gain or risk a spy. I think Advanced civ (today's mega empires) is a great example were the trading system really lifts the rest of the game.

[@szymon_archon3514]

Definitely agree that it's a great review with valid critiques! The team at Archon are definitely taking the feedback very seriously :) Trading with diplomats almost always give a benefit - the most effective way to do this is to exchange a diplomat for a diplomat as it keeps the cycle going. At the beginning of the game it's not really even worth going for spies, as it makes you less trustworthy in the eyes of other players, and the effects of spies aren't too strong at just the first level. Also, it's relatively easy to track who has searched for new diplomats and who is still just using their base diplomats. In every game of Orion I've played so far, I have never felt like I don't want to exchange diplomats because I'm giving something to another player - I'm trading because I want something THEY have. Otherwise, the diplomats are just sitting in my hand and not doing anything, and if everyone else is trading, it puts me really behind. Kind of like real life!

[@jasonc2784]

Mmmmm. I remember the tactical ship combat in MoO2. I liked trying to use tractor beams, bring an enemy shields down on that side and board them to capture the ship. But... The combat took forever and the computer AI option would often cause unnecessary losses.

[@Marky_X]

"Master of Orion is a game I never played" You need to change this.

[@Kinert]

how is the conflict and combat in this game? It is more of a cold war like TI4? or easy to attack others? or a happy medium like eclipse?

[@szymon_archon3514]

It's definitely more on the aggressive side - turtling is heavily discouraged and there's a decent amount of early wars. Of course, this doesn't mean that everyone has to play like an expansionist. You can still win games while only sitting on 1-2 planets for most of the game.

[@Shelfside]

It's extremely easy to attack people. Although, the pirates do slow down initial p2p aggression so the game doesn't completely collapse early. Though at some point late game it could be a cold war since everyone is so interconnected, yet is saving actions to prioritize exploration/economy/etc -Ashton

[@plasmapanasonic4741]

How punishing is losing? The biggest downside to eclipse is that losing combat is brutal, replacement is hard, battles often one sided. Can be rough if you lose your fleet early​@@Shelfside

[@Shelfside]

@@plasmapanasonic4741 Not too bad in our experience, although its much different playing this 3P versus my eclipse 6P. If someone gets too behind militarily in MoO, someone can just take their base which spirals the game to a showdown for the rest to cover for that guy, or the game just ends. -Ashton

[@thecaryou]

I think the minis maybe a little to big. I feel like the whole review I could not see what was going on on the board and we where looking top down not sitting. Myab that is why in the videos of playing they where always standing.

[@Fre4kazo1d]

This looks good but man what I would do for this game to be an "Endless Space" game...

[@a.c.s.6204]

I don't understand how it can be a 7 out of 10 tentative score but then possibly reach your top 10 games of all time

[@arepasxo]

Maybe because you have to spent a lot of time on the game to actually like it

[@a.c.s.6204]

@arepasxo fair enough I guess you could argue either way

[@Shelfside]

haha, there's the difference between tentative and personal score! Still undecided on top 10 games as we haven't tried 4P (and all the techs) -Ashton

[@bmrigs]

He was paid.

[@yview7315]

It will probably come out before Stellaris. Never back anything from Academy Games, they are crooks.

[@MattWGAllan]

Eh, games get delayed, nothing from them suggests the game won't be made and they've kept up communication the whole time, but yeah, the delays are pretty massive, I've had many games launch and deliver since then.

[@Sephy7777]

As Eclipse fan, this looks very medicore

[@plasmapanasonic4741]

Combat sucks in eclipse though. That's My biggest gripe with it.

[@robertthurman9866]

MoO 2&2 sucked months of my life.

[@mikesmith542]

This feels like a commercial . . .

[@Elitistb616]

Did ... did you actually watch the video?

[@mikesmith542]

@@Elitistb616 I . . . I . . . did . . . did you? Does it not strike you as strange providing a review for a prototype, regardless of the disclaimer that the score is tentative and then ending the video with the idea that this game could possibly end up in his top 10 games of all time? May I ask you an honest question: Why do you think content creators create early content for crappy Kickstarter projects? It's fine to do paid previews . . . just don't call the damn thing a review. There is a reason why many countries are starting to mandate that content creators provide information within the description of the video detailing if the product is a paid preview or if the product was provided to them for free for the purpose of review. That information is not available in the description . . .

[@phunkysai]

Did you make it to the “Cons” section? A commercial would never feature that.

[@roevtomte]

Okay. But did Shelfside receive money for this "review"? And how much in that case?

[@phunkysai]

@ he said it’s sponsored, so I imagine so. And he also said that at the beginning. So I guess it’s up to you whether you believe his following thoughts, which, after years of watching the channel, I do. In fact, his negatives throughout the video (not just in the cons section but later as well), has made me rethink whether I am going to back the project or not (I’m a big MoO fan so was initially excited, but the negatives he points out give me pause as to whether they can fix these issues before the game comes out).

[@Nozdormu1982]

Any game by archon studios is a skip for me. When they ever succeed in a making a good rulebook, call.

[@therealzizmon1748]

The rulebook and a TTS version will be available before the campaign launches

[@curiosity802]

Wow you talk so fast... I just left.

[@scramsby]

I actually prefer a faster cadence. I've lost most of my patience for slow talkers over the years. I guess the internet has ruined me. Maybe having a little more variety in tone/enthusiasm would make it a little easier to follow, though. Appreciate their reviews as always regardless!