Mastering Beer pH with JOHN PALMER | BRÜniversity

This episode is sponsored by ABS Homebrew, the largest homebrew shop in the southeast who offer shipping around the US. Grab your ingredients and gear at atlanticbrewsupply.com!
Monitoring and adjusting mash pH is something most brewers are familiar with, but it's a step that many let fall by the wayside. How much does pH in beer really matter? To find out, John Palmer has generously agreed to take us through his excellent presentation on pH in beer. Then, in true Brülosophy style, we’re going to discuss these ideas in the context of results from two exBEERiments. Does pH have a perceptible impact on beer? Let's find out!
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[@grahamhawes7089]

A tip I heard for rapidly chilling your pH samples to room temp: keep two sturdy shot glasses in the freezer. Pour your sample into the first, stir, pour it into the second, and stir. The thermal mass of the cold shot glasses should bring the small sample to room temp very quickly.

[@hugojeller]

also small sample in a metal cup, stir the sample with the cup under tap water.. this way I get very stable temperatures for all my readings across batches

[@patrickglaser1560]

Test tubes in ice water.

[@minhlouis3750]

​@@hugojeller this is what i do too

[@jymferrier]

Fun video. I love that Palmer very politely called all homebrewers idiots for just shoving the ph meter in the mash.

[@alxaln]

The temperature effect on pH measurement is something I thought about in the past but never really knew what was the right thing to do. Thank you John and Brülosophy for clarifying that 👍

[@FLino89]

Awsome video. Such good information and very well explained.

[@timwood8733]

fantastic video & information -Thank You

[@matthewnorth5523]

Glad I watched this. You were right, there really were some gems 💎 .

[@michaelepstein7172]

Great Video! PH is by far the most underrated factor in Homebrewing. Good to see you devoting an episode to it. That said, I think you made an important point when discussing the experiments that actually the thing that people were tasting was the difference in the final beer ph. Really this is the number to focus on. Mash PH, isn’t nearly as important.

[@JosVanTongeren]

Thanks for all the information. Happy that I already lowered all my samples to room temperature before measuring PH. I will play around with different PH in different Beer styles. And it is really time for me to read the water book after finishing the yeast book.

[@beersontap]

Great info thanks!

[@GarySylvester]

Great video. I really appreciate interspersing Martin's insights during John's presentation. It helped me grasp the important kernels in there. I plan to pay more attention to this in the future! One question, got any recommendations on a budget -friendly pH meter?

[@chriscaul2114]

A lot of this information is in Graham Wheeler's book dated 1993 that I have in my collection which is what I use as a reference. Good to see it is still relevant.

[@RiggerBrew]

I was wondering why my Porter at a higher mash ph came out great, now I see why. Thanks for this conversation. I saved the scale for Mash ph based on the range of colors/styles.

[@mrknaldhat]

Also pH probes are rarely manufactured to be able to withstand much higher temperatures than room temp. If you stick it directly into the mash you're asking for it!

[@awolfejanson]

Thanks for making all these in depth videos! One question I still have is: once I've taken a proper ph measurement, how do I calculate how much lactic acid to add to get to my target ph. people always seem to gloss over this detail and just add1-3 ml without explaining how they decided to add that much, but is there a more precise/rigorous way to determine how much to add?

[@jac540]

Is there a list with the preferred pH levels for different beer styles? I've been googling but I can't find much more than: dark beers pH around 5.6, light beers around 5.2. Seems like a good recommendation, however, if there is a more specific overview of pH levels in beer, that would be way better.

[@C1ph3rd]

I haven’t been happy with my existing pH meter, so in research of a new one I found that most handheld pH meters homebrewers would buy have ATC, but only up to around 120ºF, which is not adequate for our mash temps. I’m not certain if the ATC on lab grade equipment would be more accurate at higher temps, but some do specifically have higher temp ratings. I’ll have to do some comparisons of the mash pH at temp vs room temp and see if my fancy new meter is consistent (and worth the expense). This was an interesting video, thanks!

[@johnpalmer5367]

Keep in mind that ATC is to keep the meter calibrated. Remember that you are looking for a (near) room temperature pH of 5.2-5.6, and at mash temp you would be looking for a different range, approx 4.9-5.3. Maybe I don't say it in this video, but measuring at high temp is stressful on you meter and shortens it's working life.

[@indiekiduk]

Adjusting sparge water ph below 6 was the biggest improvement to my home brew so it’s frustrating to see 12:34 that says water ph is not important for mash without also saying it is essential for sparge

[@johnpalmer5367]

Acidifying sparge water below six works, but probably not for the reason you think it is; that's the point I'm trying to make. You should be acidifying in order to neutralize the alkalinity, not to move the pH X amount. It often amounts to the same thing but it's treating the symptom vs. the cause if you get what I mean.

[@tobarstep]

Mash pH is such a tough one to nail down though. It really requires making the same recipe multiple times to get it dialed in by trial and error because by the time you can get your mash pH reading, the mash is mostly done thanks to the super quick conversion speed of today's malts. Mostly I just take note of it for *next time* and adjust accordingly.

[@erniq3]

All depends how you see this. If receipe says 5.35 and you trying to hit that exactly then yeah it’s really hard. For me keeping in the range is more important than chasing single number.

[@vexy1987]

The way I see it, unless you are going for consistency and max efficiency, it's not especially relevant for a homebrewer to manage pH as fastidiously as commercial breweries, but what do I know!

[@bryanwagner4670]

I thought at 77 degrees target is 5.4 -5.8 At mash temp target is 5.2-5.6 I calibrate at 77, target 5.4 for sparge water at 77 and acidify. then later if my mash reads 5.2 to 5.3 I let it go as correct. Am I doing something wrong in ph adjustment and target?

[@indiekiduk]

2:52 shows 20 degrees is room temp for calibration.

[@Homebrew58]

If you don't measure mash PH until about 15 to 20 minutes into the mash and a correction is needed at the time of that measurement - how much affect is that correction going to have knowing that conversion is nearly complete at that time?

[@johnpalmer5367]

Ehhh, it's close enough. At 20 minutes you could expect to the mash to be a little lower than at 5 minutes, but maybe by .05? You want to be in the ballpark, not necessarily on home plate. It depends on what you are mashing, your water, etc., but nominally you can expect the pH to drop by about 0.2 pH during the hour, i.e., 5.3 to 5.1 for example. But, it may only drop by 0.1 during that time. Depends on the brew.

[@jonasklougartwildt9344]

Im confused?!? At 15.30 he says that 6.1 at mash temperature translates to 5.8-5.9 at room temperature? But isnt it the other way round? That 6.1 at mash translates to 6.3-6.4 at room?!?

[@johnpalmer5367]

EGAD! You are correct Sir! pH is lower (more acidic) at higher temperature. I should have said 6.1 was like 6.4 if cooled to room temp and remeasured.

[@jonasklougartwildt9344]

@@johnpalmer5367 Thanks for clearing that up. Now I feel confident, that I know enough about PH in wort to improve my beer.

[@jeffrabe1117]

So glad I found this comment. I was scratching my head for a full 24 hours on this one. Thank you so much John and Jonas!

[@slaw38]

I needed to type this before my brain exploded. So if you want a mash pH of 5.4 do you aim for a pH of 5.1 at room temp.

[@johnpalmer5367]

No, you want your mash pH to be 5.2-5.6 AT ROOM Temp. Don't measure your mash pH hot because it shortens your pH meter life. (If you ARE measuring at mash temp, you would be looking for ~4.9-5.3)

[@FoScoJo]

Wait. Did he say it was "a whole other box of frogs"?

[@CTP-bbq-HundHutte]

I think as far as John Palmer goes he makes home brewing to confusing for my simple country ways. I’ve been brewing for years and make pretty good beer without getting to deep

[@johnpalmer5367]

Hey, that's fair. Good brewing!

[@omarpadilla4739]

Want pro level beer? It's impossible without water chem control.

[@liquidgold2735]

what the heck is the noise in the background of the video at the start? it's really weird.

[@jauld360]

It sounds like opera music.

[@xmonks]

Mash pH not important, also make sure your meter is calibrated

[@canadianbrewer]

I adjust it using Brew'N water and that is it. I don't own a PH meter, and most likely will never buy one.

[@jpsion]

a bit of a wishwash…homebrewers will always lack parametric control somewhere. Just a bunch of hope and happy accidents.