Mastering Engineer Finds Hidden EQ Setting... mind blown!

[@DaftyBoi412]

It's actually really handy for the specific example you gave too. As you're trying to get rid of low freqency "bloom" on the kick drum at a certain freqency, you can not only lower the volume of the area you want with EQ, you can use non linear phase EQ (or a mix), specifically what the the visualisations are showing, to help pull it back in time so that the low end hits more as a slab all at once (in phase), as opposed to having that swelling after the hit in certain freqencies and others being more instant due to how the freqency phases stack up (if you imagin them all as an FFT). I'm pretty sure that's exactly what your intention was with this, but you didn't outright state it. it's sort of implicit in what you were saying, but a viewer would have to already understand EQ, phase and one's effect on the other intimately to automatically get it - which I'm sure most do, but for the few who maynot, I thought I'd add it here for anyone who might need that linking step to understand it. ;)

[@panorama_mastering]

Spot on!!!!

[@marshy_moo]

You are SUCH a nerd but absolutely my kind of nerd. Love it!! Shout out from Collingwood!

[@panorama_mastering]

You rock! Welcome aboard!

[@JonandLibby]

Always read the manual! 😃

[@panorama_mastering]

Golden

[@Pabloesc571]

I don't like doing it it's too long 😂 just twist the knobs and you're good

[@CyanideLovesong]

Oh this is so cool. I clicked this expecting click-bait but I actually didn't know this setting! Thank you for making this video, thumbs up indeed.

[@Pabloesc571]

This is not pro-q though lol

[@CyanideLovesong]

@@Pabloesc571 Thank you for the correction. I mistyped, of course I know that's Ozone's EQ but I spaced out while typing! I corrected my comment. Thanks again.

[@gh0stransist0r]

You can change frequency scale to Flat-Log for more resolution on the low end. Mel for mid to high because it's exactly how human perceive it. Neutron has Linear which is even better for highest-end EQing, possible to make the hihat sound bearable, if you ever needed the extra resolution. All out surgical. XD

[@panorama_mastering]

Nice

[@Neekzu]

Wouldn't it be similar if you tried Eventide SplitEQ and EQ out the sustain? Or Toneboosters EQ that's even more advanced?

[@nietzscheth]

Yep I had the same idea

[@panorama_mastering]

Spot on! You’re not off the mark with that. This was simply exploring / pushing and pulling a feature set in a tool.

[@jeremyoswin9535]

Yes. Also, Boz Transgressor has given me remarkable results in similar situations.

[@tkalsnv]

as far as i know, ozone EQ also has a sustain/transient function when you click in the stereo icon in the middle right above the graphic. though i think it’s only for dynamic EQ mode. but i would love to see the difference from this technique he used in the video to the actual transient/sustain mode!

[@AshVanGelder]

DMG Equilibrium has had mixed phase functionality for years before Ozone, and honestly in my testing just got better sounding results with it's phase rotation, but OZONE's implementation might be a tad bit quicker for the less technically inclined

[@panorama_mastering]

Yeap there’s a small group of EQ’s that can do this. I owe DMG the opportunity to PROPERLY TEST it. I have daed with it but never implimented it into my workflow.

[@luvitluvitbaby]

I have both Ozone 10 and DMG Equilibrium, but I will definitely check it out.

[@johndozesoph4136]

Ozone alternates between IIR and FIR. EQuilibrium can alternate through IIR and FIR in both positive and negative phase. they aren't really the same. also, the filter kernel length and windowing of EQuilibrium can really mess with the phase and passband ringing too. can be useful for some sounds. it's a workhorse for sure

[@BrainDeadTX]

I really appreciate your videos! I’ve learned so much…I’m lazy about reading manuals but gotta start doing it 😅

[@panorama_mastering]

I love reading manuals. But often my haste/speed to skip over them come back to bite me in the bum.

[@CHRONIC_2SAN]

FL STOCK PARAMETRIC EQ 2 GOT THAT PHASE ROTATION THANG!!!!! AND LIN PHASE MODE TOO

[@EarthboundMastering]

The delta function can be a bit misleading. It is doing everything as it should, but it will highlight any slight phase shift, even though it may not affect the sound noticeably. What you hear is more like the theoretical delta, not the practical delta. Thanks for sharing your findings! Keep up the great work! :)

[@MR_Cellarpop]

Thanks, gonna test that :). Best/Mathias

[@panorama_mastering]

Have fun! Let me know what you find!

[@fcmas]

Its a nice feature, but I would have probably started with making adjustments in transient/sustain mode. I'm part of the beta team, and absolutely forgot about this feature as well!

[@panorama_mastering]

Bang on! I do use trans-sustain mode sometimes. This whole video was more an excersize to push using different tools… but just morphed into this a-ha moment. But I have a few grips with trans-sus atm. No manual adjustment of threshold/cross over or ballistics.

[@1176hambone]

Linear phase slurs the attack and creates a ringing effect of the low end. Much like what older versions of Melodyne would do to a pitch corrected bass guitar. Take away, A/B listen to Minimum phase vs. Linear phase, especially with narrower bell curves ( higher Q versus very low/wide Q)

[@MomecMusic]

Love your energy! 😃 Thank you for sharing your findings 🙏

[@this_is_jmdub]

What an amazing feature!! I’m always in global mode and didn’t even see the drop down. Would you say eqing the transient and sustain signal separately would have worked too?

[@panorama_mastering]

Possibly so. This was an excersize to explore trying different processors in different applications. I have one strugge point with tran-sustain in ozone. I can’t control the threshold or crossover between trans-sustain or the speed/balistics of it

[@NobleBurrow]

I really appreciate the bit of advice but I feel what you described fits the bill of SplitEq to a T. Perhaps try that in similar style and see if it does what you want as well. Has been a game changer for me

[@cefk9944]

This is the sort of thing, I love your channel for :)

[@panorama_mastering]

Glad you enjoy it!

[@joshmarn]

Cheers Nick. Yes wow, didn't realize this.. 💙

[@panorama_mastering]

Unlocked!

[@FlotownMastering]

FWIW, extra curves and mixed phase mode have been around since at least Ozone 5 (2013), and possibly earlier. Extra curves did go away for a version or two, but a few of us petitioned strongly to get them back ;) Also, not to put too fine a point on it, and I know you were referring primarily transient presentation, but a big part of why MP and LP deltas sound so different is exactly because of the phase shift, so even if the magnitude response is nearly 0, the phase response still may not be and so it won’t null with the dry and thus still show up in the delta. Good stuff though. I show this to all my students, and more people should know about this. :)

[@panorama_mastering]

Thanks for sharing, I think I started using Ozone at 8 or 9 and only joined beta from 10 onwards, not sure where/when this came in.

[@paulgilbody]

Love this - appreciate the news letter info too!

[@panorama_mastering]

My pleasure

[@BOIWHATmusic]

This one too advanced for me😭😂

[@thefishesandi]

Laughed out loud that you were "blown" by Izotope. Great video. Joining the newsletter for sure.

[@panorama_mastering]

It happened! I am excited to get that installment out next week to you via the newsletter

[@thefishesandi5089]

Great stuff. Look forward to reading it. Thanks for your hard work.

[@johndozesoph4136]

Yeah. i've never understood this fallacy about linear phase and transient response. linear phase is always arguably better if that is what you are trying to preserve provided you aren't doing anything crazy with the EQ e.g deep and narrow notches, ridiculously steep pass filtering. if we are talking shelves and wide bells though for mastering especially or kick and bass? linear phase all the way, or intermediate sometimes too

[@panorama_mastering]

Yeah. We need to have mechanisms that strip away biases and focus in objective decision making.

[@bullshyte4318]

Your videos are gold!

[@panorama_mastering]

Cheers m808

[@warrickcole4550]

The Legend that keeps on giving!! 🔥🔥

[@panorama_mastering]

Cheers m808

[@graywyot]

Wonderful!!!

[@gulagwarlord]

Are you sure that's not an FM bass sound that's ducked under it? I would have to hear more of the track but that's what it sounds like. The kick right before it is the actual kick, if I'm not mistaken.

[@DaftyBoi412]

@@gulagwarlord TBH it doesn't really matter. It could also be a stacked kick with multiple samples or a bassline, when coming that close to the kick transient in time and/or that close to the kick body in freqency, for the sake of mastering, it should probably be treated as if it was part of the kick regardless, so you can get the most impact out of the hit. Besides, you can see on the spectral analyser it's meant to be all one sound. 😉✌️

[@panorama_mastering]

It’s two kick drum sounds. I mixed this song ! Like all things when we circle back arkund to a project in hindsight we observe new things

[@EdThorne]

Great video! 🔥

[@panorama_mastering]

Thanks 🔥

[@TheMrSamrock]

Amazing one.

[@lukaszsalomonbryla6854]

You can do that in Ozone 10 ;)

[@soulofwaves]

But no delta in 10 unfortunately

[@timobon5937]

@@soulofwaves That's why the Ozone 11 Equalizer module is FREE!! We can all use this method :)

[@panorama_mastering]

Mixed mode yes, but the graphing of phase and delays? Did I miss that?

[@KeenanCrow]

Yeah that rules

[@panorama_mastering]

Cheers m808

[@ghfjfghjasdfasdf]

Very cool!! 🤟

[@panorama_mastering]

Cheers m808

[@OmarP8]

Great!!

what about putting a dynamic eq of the vruummmm fequency, with low attack ? And, when u have time, can u try the new eq from tone booster ? Eq pro something, that has decay transiant etc IN the eq band, I find it crazy but I KNOW you will tech us something crazy with it

[@panorama_mastering]

Definitely! And I have used dynamic EQ in the context before too! There are multiple ways to peel this orange

[@zillahgoodmaen6783]

Interesting Hidden EQ setting revealed to me. Big Ups!

[@panorama_mastering]

My pleasure

[@scoredeluxe]

that is the first thing to expand ... rtfm every time again 😉

[@marico.artist]

that's insane :o

[@panorama_mastering]

Thanks man

[@APMastering]

i think the main difference you are hearing is the inaccuracy of the Q implementation between IIR and FIR. It's probably less to do with the phase shift itself

[@panorama_mastering]

Definitely so! Still more to push not only on the technical side of this front, but most importantly in more contextualised situations in sessions. Problem is the use case for mixing processing/exploring this is 1 in every 50 sessions.

[@jeremyholcombe3202]

"Wait a second, there's a delay here...."😅

[@panorama_mastering]

Ha!

[@kapokparski4573]

Quote after 6 minutes in "here where it gets interesting"dude! ...im not apro mastering engineer but its a part i must do myself so i try to follow techniques to develop my skill but i allready got totally lost at the phase part......i think youre at the level at being more of a producer then just a engineer....for example editing the kick in the mix would be much easier then all the micro stuff you must put in to make it work...not hating ...its great what youre doing ...just saying ...people with youre experience being involved at the production stage would be gold!

[@panorama_mastering]

Thanks man. That’s really humbling. Here’s the thing about producing and producers, they have an incredible creative flow and engagement with the art of creating music. I simply don’t have that. That said this sort of knowledge and observation of production elements and it’s IMPACT on the final master is something am often listening for and will flag early on when sent mixes before mastering to QC

[@alstontyler4788]

I have been working on music for quite a while and this feels like rocket science to me 😂😅

[@panorama_mastering]

Same to me.

[@DaftyBoi412]

@@alstontyler4788 Yep! 😂✌️

[@MohammedMehdiTBER]

With minor details come major results.

[@panorama_mastering]

Spot on’n

[@MohammedMehdiTBER]

@@panorama_mastering yeah.

[@envisagefilmshouston]

YEAH YOURE TWEAKING BRO, THATS PART OF THE BEAT, ONE THING THAT WOULD PISS ME OFF IF I SEND YOU MY MASTER AND YOU START CHANGING MY BEAT, DONT CHANGE NOTHING JUST ENHANCE.

[@panorama_mastering]

You’re spot on. This isn’t an actual session, just exploring a concept or idea.

[@envisagefilmshouston]

@@panorama_mastering 💯

[@Pabloesc571]

Im going to guess youre going to use the floating band or whatever its called

[@davidasher22]

What!? I've been on the Ozone beta team for years now and i didn't even know about this. smh. EDIT: oh yeah! I remember when the introduced the lines too. Its all coming back. Theres also that clipper inside the EQ menu.

[@panorama_mastering]

Yes!!! The clipper. Ma boy Will Borza shared with me some juice on how to use that in a pretty unique way! Maybe food for another video?

[@davidasher22]

@@panorama_mastering yeah! Put it on your video ideas list!

[@this_is_jmdub]

I love the 1930s style headline :)

[@panorama_mastering]

I have been watching too much mad men

[@atellsoundtheory8774]

I'm afraid that you are being misled by the delta listening function. The perception of the difference between the EQ output and input tells you extremely little about the difference of perception of the input and output. This is exactly because of the phase differences. So whatever conclusion you are drawing from listening to the delta signal, it has very little to do with what the EQ is really changing in the signal. The minimum phase setting changes the output phase in a way that high frequencies become audible in the delta signal, giving you the impression that minimum phase setting is affecting more of the punch and snappiness of the signal. In reality, it only changes the phase in this range in an mostly inaudible way. If you disable delta listening, you won't be able to hear much of a difference in the selectivity of what the filter is processing. The only thing you will hear is that, if you exceed the perceptual post- or pre-masking ranges at the frequency you are modifying, the transient quality may change into different kinds of temporally blurred transients. I'm not a great fan of delta listening for most processes. It's rarely not misleading.

[@panorama_mastering]

Maybe your right! I am still inconclusive about it all. Here’s what I know that I can agree with you on. Phase differences at these levels are impossible to distinguish. BUT here’s where I want to push further into. I think this concept of mixed phase EQ and it’s interactions with problematic / surgical applications can be explored further. This was an A-ha moment I was documenting the day after. I am curious to see how repitition and exploration of this further may draw new conclusions. The delta I think isn’t a missleading tool. It is literally plotting the difference. Albeit in hindsight that delta signal measures -60dB below peak which is well under the threshold of audibile masking. So I think moving forward it would be good to assess the downstream affect of a change like this early on in a chain. Again, just exploring my thoughts, not hammering down with any conviction. So I fenuinely appreciate your input. This is all exploration and learning for everyone

[@luvitluvitbaby]

Correctomundo! And if I might add, the phase correlation as it relates to the delta signal must be resigned to alpha when rendering its position in perpendicular alignment. This is how our ears perceive exactly how the curve bends in relation to Isosceles. And this is exactly how the curves translate during quantum equalization squared.

[@yoyoyayu]

Real question: Why are the mixes in the beginning so far from 0 dbfs?? It's hitting at like -12, why this low a level?? I'm genuinely wtf

[@coffeemusicit]

Hey Nicholas! Brilliant feature. Although I'm not sure that the differences you hear in delta are also audible in the full signal. You obviously hear more in mixed phase because of the phase rotation, but these phase rotations that are very evident in delta are probably not audible in the full signal. That's because delta works with inverting phase, and obviously in linear phase you will hear less difference. What do you think about it?

[@panorama_mastering]

Hey!! I am going to cut-paste a response because someone else had posted something similar on this video and I think you’re both making the same valid point! Maybe your right! I am still inconclusive about it all. Here’s what I know that I can agree with you on. Phase differences at these levels are impossible to distinguish. BUT here’s where I want to push further into. I think this concept of mixed phase EQ and it’s interactions with problematic / surgical applications can be explored further. This was an A-ha moment I was documenting the day after. I am curious to see how repitition and exploration of this further may draw new conclusions. The delta I think isn’t a missleading tool. It is literally plotting the difference. Albeit in hindsight that delta signal measures -60dB below peak which is well under the threshold of audibile masking. So I think moving forward it would be good to assess the downstream affect of a change like this early on in a chain. Again, just exploring my thoughts, not hammering down with any conviction. So I fenuinely appreciate your input. This is all exploration and learning for everyone

[@DaftyBoi412]

@@coffeemusicit Delta works by completely inverting phase of the input signal (so it's the polar opposit) and then subtracting it from the output signal. This will show ANY difference in the output signal. The same technique works with compression, a process that doesn't touch the phase, it doesn't just show phase differences, even though phase inversion is used to acheive a delta signal (it's simlar to how we get a mid side signal, except we are subtracting right from left by inverting the right's phase in M/S processing). It's difference still may be below the threshold of human hearing, but just because it's a linear or non linear phase eq shouldn't make a difference on it's own to how much of the EQ move you can hear in a delta signal (the only real difference being the non linear phase EQ delta will also have that phase rotation included in the delta, where as with linear phase ofc it doesn't happen to begin with), the amount of difference in the before and after signals will be any difference actually present in the signal, not just phase differences, even though phase is used to achieve this, as all you are really doing in delta signal is removing the input signal from the output signal (the phase of what you are hearing in delta is unchanged by the process of acquiring a delta signal, everything else is just removed via cancellation). If you were to add the delta signal to the input signal, in theory you should then again have the full output signal. Delta=Output-Input, so Output=Input+Delta (and therfor Input=Output-Delta). All we are doing by inverting phase here is subtraction. 😉👍

[@coffeemusicit]

@@DaftyBoi412 yes, but delta works with phase inversion, so phase rotations are much more audible there than in the full signal. Try to use an all pass and listen to the delta and the full signal, in the full signal it is not as audible as the delta shows That’s why, as Nicholas told, it’s a thing to investigate further. Curious to know what you will discover, I’ll share my 2 cents if I have some new viewpoints about this🤝🏻

[@DaftyBoi412]

@@coffeemusicit As far as I understand it, 180 deg phase rotation is a bit diferent than phase polarity inversion, as with a polarity flip posative and negative values are inverted across the 0 line 1:1 rather than moved in time as when using phase rotation. For a correct and acurate delta signal, one should use polarity inversion and not phase rotation. However, what each specific plug in developer actually uses I can't speak on. There is one thing even with polarity inversion people need to be aware of though. It's a difference signal, so a delta signal that is made this way will not only include the things that are in the output but not the input, it will also include things in the input that are NOT present in the output. They will not be present in the output as they are diferences from the input side that the processing is removing as opposed to adding. This could be the difference you are hearing... (assuming Ozone are using a stright flipped polarity as I would expect and not rotated phase). This isn't a problem if only adding or only taking something away from a signal, however when both adding and taking away in one process (eq cut + boost in the same patch, an eq cut + harmonic distortion, or a resonant peaked EQ filter cut for example) it can become confusing as you don't know what you're adding and what you're taking away, and can hear both in the delta signal, just that with what you are taking away the polarity will be inverted (yet still audiable in the delta signal if not present in the output, which it ofc isn't as you're taking it away with the processing).

[@pierrenagonio]

U wasted Your time fixing what 99% of ppls will not even notice.

[@panorama_mastering]

If you improve 1% every day for 365, compounded day over day that's a 3,678.34% improvement.... Whilst it's not every day I'm making changed to my mastering work, but over the past 10 years I take every opportunity to challenge my work and choices.

[@JonAnderhub]

Cool beans!